Morgan Freeman

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman. And today we have the greatest voice of all time, perhaps. I mean. Him and Edward James Olmos, Darth Vader. Sure.

That's classic. I'm picking Morgie. Yeah, Morgan's my guy, too. Morgan Freeman, Academy Award-winning actor, producer, and narrator of The Shawshank Redemption, seven. Our very favorite ding, ding, dingles. God. Bruce Almighty, The Bucket List, Million Dollar Baby, and new season of Lioness, The Taylor Sheridan Show. Hugely popular. Season two out right now on Paramount+. What a delight. Morgan Freeman. I feel really, really, really lucky we got to talk to him.

Such a legend, like a true one of one. We're not going to get another one like him. Very, very special. Yeah. So basically, this is a this is almost an ASMR gift. You're going to get to hear Morgan Freeman that. that beautiful velvety voice for the next hour and change. So please enjoy Morgan Freeman. This episode is brought to you by WaterAid. Rachel is 12 years old.

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to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash dax to get started today. He's an ultra-experte Hello, sir. Hello, sir. I'm Dax. How you do, Dax? Good. Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming. Where are you guys coming from? I live here in LA. You do? Okay. And Morgan lives in Alabama, Mississippi.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, which one? That's the question. Which one? Alabama or Mississippi? Both of them. You can't have both. Why not? I guess maybe you can have both. I do have both. But I spend most of my time in Alabama. Do I have to put these on? You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. If you like them, great. If you like them, you like them. If you don't, you don't.

You guys out of here? That was the final straw. First was, where are you staying? None of your fucking business. Two was, do you really live in Alabama, Mississippi? That was strike two. I did say that. Well, it does feel like a riddle. Like how could you possibly live in both? Like where did they bury the survivors? That old riddle.

I guess you could conceivably build a house right on the state line and put your bedroom dead in the middle of it. Oh, that'd be fun. And go to sleep on one side and wake up on the other side of the bed. Well, Morgan, welcome to the show. Are you doing a bunch of press right now?

now for Linus? Yeah. And what's your overall feelings about press? You can be very honest because I have varying views myself. It's a have to. You have to do it. That's right. I was given a choice of not. I would not. That's fair. Well, it's the only part of the business that, let's call it an imposition. You have to do it. And it gets old.

Yeah. So there's many reasons why it can be uncomfortable. One of them is starting to just kind of feel fraudulent because you're repeating yourself so much. Exactly. I can turn the air on for us. Oh, shit. We just turned it off. Oh, and I'm turning it off. I'm turning it right back off. I don't react well to air conditioning. Oh, tell me. Well, it makes you sniffly. It steps up my head.

I'm allergic, specifically if I get air blowing on me, cool air, and that's it. First of all, my head stops and I sneeze. I do all the things that you do if you're allergic to something. And I know why you're allergic to things. You don't like it. Now, you were brought home as a baby to Memphis. From Memphis. Dad was a barber.

Well, at the time, they were both nurse's aides. Okay. And then your mom was also a teacher at some point? A little later, yeah, she started to teach music because she played the Pianana. The fine Anna. Yeah. Tickled the ivory. Yeah. Did you ever play? Did she teach you? She didn't have the patience to teach me. Either I bet or I didn't have the patience.

to learn i wanted to play the piano i didn't want to learn how same yeah that's the big hurdle the learning part yeah unfortunately yeah you go down to mississippi and you live with your dad's mom there

Or does the whole family? I'm 87 years old. They're all dead. When you were a toddler. Oh, when I was a toddler. No, I'm sorry. This is what I want to do. Let's introduce... crs condition which you've recently diagnosed yourself as because i think that's a good primer for the interview yeah what is that crs yeah think he can't remember a lot of things yeah and he said on camel that he does have crs as a condition which is can't remember shit oh wow so

That medical condition, we should state up front in case we get a little blurry on the background. Good, good, good. My long-term memory, like most, I think, is pretty much intact. It's like... Five minutes ago. And does that start extending also going back months? I do wonder, can short term get bigger? Short term memory? I don't. No, mine gets smaller and smaller. But those core memories, they seem very intact. Yeah, that's a good term to use, core.

I remember my childhood as well, perfectly. Two years ago, I'm not sure what happened. And I kind of marvel at what an impact it makes. Do you think about that? There are moments in your childhood that are just clear. I have moments when I remember something when I was...

four or five, six years old. Do you remember context at all? Do you remember World War II was ending? Is that a memorable event or was that just the water you were swimming in? That's just water I was swimming in, good way to put it. I was a little bored during. War. How old was I when it ended? I think eight, maybe. 37 you were born, ended in 45.

Good math. Tax is a lot of math here. It's one of my few skills, Morgan. Really? Yeah, if you want to hit me with anything. You got any tax items you want me to add up quickly? Right on, because mine sucks. Always has. How were you as a student? I was very good as a student. I just wasn't good in math. I read a lot. That set me up with English teachers. Everybody else except the math instructor. But he was kind to me because...

I was a star. Already an acting star. Yeah. Yeah. You start really, really young. Yeah. Your first role is nine years old. Eight. Eight. Yeah. And you're living with grandma or mom. Mom by now. Okay. That grandma was my paternal grandma. Died at age six and a half. While you were there. Oh, yeah. I remember I'm a junior, so my name was Junior.

Two or three ladies sitting with her while she was dying. And then finally, say you think she's dead? Well, call Junior and have him call her. If she doesn't answer, she's gone. You were the test. Yeah. shook her, called her name, and she wasn't there anymore. Did you enjoy living with her? I was a little boy, yeah. I was the apple of her eye. Both grandmothers were worthy. Big influences. Yeah.

Now, this gets serious, I'm assuming, because at 12 years old, you win a statewide, you're like in a drama competition, you win best actor at 12 years old. Are you feeling yourself? Are you like next stop is Broadway? What does that do to a 12 year old? I always wanted to be in the movies. I didn't see stage plays. Right, right. I was living in the movies. So that was where my...

Passions, Lay and Lie. What were the movies at the time that were huge for you? Those Saturday Westerns, Lash LaRue and Buck Rogers. That was a Western in space, right? Yeah. Ken Maynard. Later on, John Wayne was coming along. Was Eastwood, you were too similar in age, right? How old were you when you started seeing Eastwood in movies? He was on Rawhide, Rowdy Yates.

That's when I first noticed him. And then, you know, he disappeared for a while. And then he was the man with no name. He could shoot. Five guys just like that. Yeah, I was only curious if you had been a fan of his before you worked with him. Big fan. My favorite movie was The Outlawed Josie Wales. Josie Wales, yeah, yeah.

Now, you were also moving a ton, right? Because you did Memphis. You did a couple of places in Mississippi. You did Gary, Indiana. How were you doing when you were dropping into these new schools nonstop? Getting beat up. You were getting beat up. You know, skinny, bookish. The only thing I had going for me was I wouldn't give up. I would not show up. What was the roughest stop?

Chicago, Southside. What ages were you in Chicago? I got there at age six. First time I was ever slapped real hard. Oh. Because it was a December in Chicago. and that cold i'd never experienced that before yeah and at the time the illinois central railroad was the connection so i got off the train with my biological father because he came down after my grandmother died his mother he had to come and get me and my sister

You have two older sisters? Two older brothers, a younger sister, and a younger brother. So you're a middle, middle, middle. I am the middle child. Quintessential middle. Quintessential. Easy target. Yeah. Every time I change schools, what seems to me. All the time. It had to be initiated into some other little gang. You got to prove where you sit on this ladder every time you arrive. It doesn't come with you. Nope. And I wasn't a fighter. You could jump by four or five boys.

All right, all right, all right, Jesus. Quit. Yeah. You're just praying for someone to have some kindness and mercy. God, I hope one of these four boys has the bravery to say we should stop kicking him now. I think we might be hurting him very badly. Did your brothers get picked on too? We didn't grow up together, not until I was 11 years old, because two kids were with my mother, ultimately.

Two were with her mother, my maternal grandmother. Dad, I'm just going to guess, he died very young. 49, 50? How old was dad when he died? Very young, yeah. Yeah, like 47, something like that. Says cirrhosis. Was he a drinker? Oh, heavens, yeah. Okay, again, same. Dad was a raging alcoholic. Stepdads were in the mix that were much worse. My stepdad was it. He was my dad. You got a good one. Yeah.

Oh, that's great. That rarely happens. Yeah. Well, it wasn't early. It was late. He had his own issues. Sure. Who doesn't? But it was good to me and my mom. So what things did you pick up from that? For me, I lived in the same house for 16 years, never wanted to leave. I hate moving because of that childhood. I hate authority. And from enough interviews I've listened to you in the last couple of days, I feel like you might have a little of authority issue as well. Do you?

Just a little. Just a tiny bit. Yeah, it was three years, eight months, and ten days in the United States Air Force. Yeah, so shocking to me you went into the Air Force, because that sounds to me terrible. A lot of dumb people are going to tell me what to do all the time. and I'm going to have to listen. Yeah, I got into trouble there. Want to hear one of my stories? I would love to, yes. I've come out of high school.

been able to just murder an Underwood typewriter. You were a quick typist. Yeah. And the Air Force made me a radar mechanic. I'd hate my stick, you know, really. You were a thespian. Well, closer. Yeah, and you hated math. The kid who was the clerk in the maintenance office was arrested for... child molestation. In other words, he had a little girlfriend. He was 19 and she was 13. Oh boy.

No good, no bueno. Yeah. So I volunteered to take his place in there because Dexter was a typewriter. I could even compose a reasonable letter and all that kind of stuff. Now, I'm working there for a few months, and I knew... Sergeant comes to take over the maintenance department. Tech sergeant, black guy, tall, had an eyebrow that could reach his hairline. My captain, who thought I was...

a gift from heaven. Because of the typing speed and the composition. Yeah. I want you to meet one of my best men, he says to the sergeant. I go in, he says, Sergeant Spaulding, Airman Freeman, one of my best. I say, Sergeant, it's nice to meet you. Keep your nose clean. I'm sure we're going to get along. You said that. Oh, my God. Oopsies. You'll fare well in my written coverage of this. How'd that go down? Uh-uh. That eyebrow shattered. He looked down. There was a big box next to him.

You want to take this box up to the 6th tower? No. He's black. I'm black. Captain is white. Captain is sitting down there with his head. I let him stew. for half a minute, I guess. And I said, Sergeant, if you want me to take this box up to the Six Tower, just tell me to do it. And it's gone. But you asked me if I wanted to. Oh, wow. Right. And I don't. But you know, the guy became my best friend.

Oh, he did? Yeah, absolutely. He'd stand around and wait for me to pull that shit. How did you end up in the Air Force? I needed to get out of Mississippi. I'm never going to be in the movies in Mississippi. I got to leave. I wanted to fly jets. I wanted to be a pilot. Yeah, you loved airplanes, right? At the time, I did. I still do. I'm a pilot now. At 65, you got your license. That's incredible. Yeah, you know a lot about me. I'm trying. You deserve that. Thank you. And then some.

Where were we? Graduating and getting into the Air Force? Yeah, it just seems like such an interesting detour for you, who seems like you know. But I get it. You need to get out. I needed to move. That's a sad part of that, because my grandmother... who was life savior for me died alone all of us we left home and she said to me if you stay here and go to school i had two partial scholarships for drama right yeah and no i gotta go yeah live your life yeah i'll buy you a car if you stay home

I gotta go. So that's a heartbreaker. Because those grandmas, boy, they were available, right? Yeah. These are the things that you sit with for the rest of your life when you make these decisions. I was thinking about... What was your expectation? Because dad died so young. Grandma died young. 57 when my paternal grandmother died. Yeah, all of it's all too young. Your mom made it to her 80s. Yeah, she was in her late 80s, actually.

When the adults around you growing up die so prematurely, I would imagine it's impossible to not start thinking, I'm not going to count on seeing 90 or seeing 80. Did that impact you or did you never have that view? No, I didn't. I just never thought about it. And when I think about dying, I think about just not being here. I do things and I fly planes, sail boats and stuff. You work out, you play golf. Yeah. And we get into some situations when you think, well...

I guess this is it. Especially flying's your hobby. You get to have that thought probably more than most people. Tailing is getting more. Fuck that. I race stuff. I'm all about flying. The ocean, no thank you. Oh, man. The ocean, I'll tell you in one second. Guess what?

but I'm in charge. There's no game plan that's going to get you out of this. Yeah, but if you're on the ocean, you got a good sailboat. It's very survivable. Yeah, I just watched this doc about this young woman, this South African. Who sailed around the world. Sailed around the world. Yeah, all by herself for months. No wind for like two weeks. Sitting in the middle of the ocean, no wind. That's the worst part of sailing right there. No wind. The ocean. Flat calm.

And you're pretty much in the doldrums. And the doldrums is that area between the equator and, say, the next. 10 degrees north or south nothing happens there oh yeah when that happens i wonder if you feel like has the world stopped people have gone insane yeah Yeah, to see the glass-like surface of the ocean, I would think, oh, motion has stopped on planet Earth. No swell. Oh, that's terrifying. However, there is a current. The current is only going to be about a knot and a half.

two knots, but you're moving. It just doesn't. You just can't tell. Going 10 degrees of latitude at one and a half knots. Very nice. So if you're headed for the Southern Ocean, you're going to go through them. It's a lot of trust. Or if you've got a good engine and enough fuel, you put on your motor. Get the fuck out of the doldrums. Oh, right. I didn't know that's where that came from.

The doldrums? Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, I sailed through it one time on that Asia trip, and it was calmer, but it wasn't glass-like. That would have really freaked me out. It's freaky. You've been on the ocean, there's waves, there's wind, and then here you are with... Nothing. You think, you know, I could very well die here. Yeah. I don't want that. I don't want that at all. Yeah.

No one's coming out here to get me. Would you be opposed to me keeping you here as an attraction? Like when you came to my house, you could get a picture with Morgan Freeman, the taxidermy version. Can I have your oral permission for that, if that happens? I'm going to stuff your ass. Stand your ass. You know, when I die, I want it to be... It's gone. I don't want to be lying down with...

Tubes everywhere. Somebody sitting and waiting. And I'll jump out a window. I ain't going through that shit. Well, I'm not. I know it's miserable. You're not going to do it. You can't do it. We're on to something here, though. When my wife will hear about like so-and-so just told his family has had cancer for two years, I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Let me warn you now. I don't want anyone knowing I have something because I don't want to be pitied.

I don't like that. Oh, I'm so sorry. And I'm maybe projecting on you, but I think that's one of your things as well. I don't need it. I've always been. Because of these backgrounds, it's kind of self-motivated and you have to do for yourself. Get a job when you're 13, 14 years old. That starts you off on, yeah, I can do this.

Okay, so after the Air Force, you have a pretty long period. When I'm looking at your life and your career, there's obviously a lot of unique aspects to it. But one of them is, I think I underestimated this. Because in my lifetime, the most time I've been loving movies, you've certainly been a part of them. But you had a really kind of later start of stardom. And I'm curious. So. I left Detroit, took 10 years to get an acting job. And that to me felt like 150 years. My pessimism.

And the weight of that for a decade was rough. I think I'd be an addict anyways, but certainly the addiction was fueled a lot by that. Like, oh my God, is this ever going to happen? Have I chosen wrong? Am I going to end up penniless? How were you during that long period of working a bit here and a bit there, having some success, then having some stagnation? How was that weighing on you mentally during all that?

When I first got to LA, it was February of 59. I had $175. I got in a little garage apartment for $45 a month, but the first months. rent 45 and then you have to put in that deposit that's another 45. that was february and that money ran out in april i mean completely out i remember eating rice that was it

Were you living around here? I was living in 4905 Second Avenue, I think, 4509 and a half. I made a friend who was a friend of the sergeant. His name was Sergeant John Wesley Spalding, and he... told me, when you get to LA, look up. This guy is a friend of mine from way back. So I did. And the guy befriended me, and his wife was another one of those. Every time I have been in really dire straits,

This is a woman who got me out of it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Reached in and pulled. Anyway, we hooked up. His wife and I, by that I mean, she liked to do stuff that he just didn't care for. Going to swimming pools. Going bowling, going roller skating. Being social and out there. Yeah. Well, I actually just enjoyed doing that stuff, and I enjoyed doing it. So she was happy to have somebody to do it with. It was no hanky-panky, although she was gorgeous.

Although it was killing me. And then one day he said, God damn, man, you eat here more often than I do. That was his subtle way of saying rides over. He didn't like that. So the next time I saw her was on a weekend. And she said, when did you eat last? Tuesday? Wednesday? I ran out of rice. Ran out of rice. What a fucking different life you ended up having. Oh, I know. Yeah. And she worked in the Board of Education, and she was instrumental in getting me a job. So I went to work as a transcript.

clerk at LACC. I was thinking, okay, so I'm going to try to get into the playhouse. Somebody said, no, you don't want to do that, man. We got a better theater department here in LACC. And you go take classes for free because you're working. That's what I did. How do you deal with the many times where it looks like, okay, it's going to happen. Finally got my foot in the door. I'm in this play. I'm on Broadway. There's a lot of those, right?

Yeah, I was on stage in New York. Go back to Dungeon Theater and then work your way into Off-Off-Broadway and then Off-Broadway and then... Broadway. That started at around age 30. Were you feeling, when you were with your acting peers, were you feeling behind the eight ball? Were you having that sense that you were getting older?

how do you explain that that's just your temperament i guess that's what it is and you were getting to perform so you're like okay i'm performing that's what i wanted to do

In San Francisco, did I mention San Francisco? I know that you were a part of a troupe there, the Royals. This was the Opera Ring. The Opera Ring. We did Broadway shows and musicals. So I was in West Side Story and... on the mattress and can can and the three penny opera so you were at the 1964 world's fair in new york performing

And, you know, there was an actress that was doing her very first performance professionally at the World's Fair as a dancer. Do you know who that is? Goldie Hawn. No way. Yeah, you guys were both there. That was her first kind of paid. dancing performance that was mine too yeah i thought that was interesting i was working in the what do you call it garment district new york And a friend of mine who worked there got me a job with a skip tracer. Oh, that's a guy looking for people out on bail?

That's different. I'd call it skip tracer. It's not. I'm tracing clothing. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Can I try to ship me tracer? Okay. And I was good at that. If you send a truckload of clothes somewhere and it didn't. arrive, where is it? Well, it's with the mafia down the street. You're in New York. Am I right? Is that where a lot of it was? Not the mafia, but boy.

You're in the mix there. Stuff went missing in New York pretty regularly, right? Yeah. So they were moving me up in the hierarchy and guy who was the audit clerk. Took off. He got his license as a CPA. And they said, do you want to take that desk? You get a $5 a week raise. If I make them from $55, I'm going to go to $60. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I get the job.

I'm good at it. Now people are bringing me stuff to do. This was part of your job back there. Really? Yeah. And this and this. Well, he didn't ever have time to do it. And you do. Okay. how much was he making a week right well he was making 105 a week well

Come on, that's like a $35 a week raise just like that. We can't do that. These people who've been here 20 years are just up and leave now. Here's a phone call from a woman I knew from San Francisco. She was in New York. We were... taking dance lessons in san francisco i did jazz and tap and ballet yeah you were very into dancing an actor who can move and sing

You've got that much wider possibilities. And she called me and she said, did you know that Michael Kidd was holding auditions for Dance for the World Fair? The next day, my lunch hour. I went to the audition. My kid says, how soon can you start? How soon do you want me? He said, today. Today. I'm not coming back. Yeah. And did all of a sudden they have $105 a week to pay you? No, they didn't. I was gone, man. Okay. I was expecting them to go, hey.

supervisor. He said, how much does this pay? I said, I'm not coming back. I got a job. I'm dancing. He said, how much does the passage? $92 a week. He says, okay, how long is that going to last? I don't care how long it lasts. And so that was it. It was my New York job. There's some about giving away security for the dream. There's something magic that happens. I had a job that was...

perfect gold cage. It's like I only worked on the weekends. I worked enough hours I could pay to be an actor. At some point I had to go like, I'm quitting that and I don't really have a plan, but I feel like I need to quit that before this other stuff's going to open up. Your Broadway debut is in 68 in Hello, Dolly. Pearl Bailey won a Tony for that. It was an all-black cast of Hello, Dolly. Yeah.

Were you a Cab Calloway fan? Was it exciting for you? I was more excited just about being on Broadway. I had done an off-Broadway play. That I'm not allowed to say the name of, but you can. Yeah, The Nick Lovers with Vivica Lenfers. and stacy keach we had a short run show closed i auditioned as a replacement for the part of rudolph the head waiter and i got it so i just moved from off broadway to broadway

I was in that show for 11 months, and a guy came to me, and he said, I would like for you to come with me. I'm going to do a little show. We call it the DMZ. some scenes and some skits and stuff. Primarily, we're going to be anti-war. I don't have the kind of money that you're making here, but you'll get press. You joined that. Yeah. Now, again, you're in a Broadway play and people are getting nominated and winning Tonys. For me, I'm like, OK, buckle up. Here we go.

Was it a rocket ship after that? I know we go to 1971, the electric company. There was some empty times between the World's Fair 64. The World's Fair job didn't last but a few months. Count. rehearsal and the show itself closed in a couple of months so i was on the street for the most part

But I went to work at Needix. Needix is like early, early, early, early McDonald's. It's another one of those places where you go and you can get these little hot dogs. You can get donuts, a cup of coffee. You can get scrambled. some bacon. Fast food. Yeah. And they paid $49 a week, and you worked 44 hours a week. So a dollar an hour, basically. And it was a sign in the shop that says, no tipping.

Oh, jeez. Heaven forbid. Yeah. So I say to the guy in my orientation, I said, no tipping. People are going to sometimes tip you. You give them good service. What do you do? Give it back. I said, well, no, what if they put it under a napkin and just walk away? He said, you ring it up as a sale. Why? and so they can keep it yeah so i'm working and i'm looking around at the other guys working in this place

Hoodlum to the core. Everyone's on the grift. These guys are not working for no $49 a week. So the manager was a black guy, and I cornered him in the dressing room and said, Okay, how does this work? Yeah. Give me the reel. Show me the ropes. So, he showed me the ropes. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. Hey, comedy fans. We've got some great news. All your favorite comedy podcasts can be enjoyed ad-free on Amazon Music.

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I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankopan. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we're looking at the life of the British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill. For many people in the UK he's a national hero. For others, he's a symbol of racist imperialism.

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As the Belgian Congo gains its independence, MI6 dispatches Officer Park to build a spy network. Its aim? To thwart a communist land grab. promote African democracy and prevent nuclear war. Along with field officer Larry Devlin, they work to be a part of what would be one of the darkest operations in MI6 and CIA history.

In order for Park to succeed, she needs to win the trust of Congo's first Prime Minister, Patrice Lumumba, or remove him. Follow The Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can binge the full season of The Spy Who Killed The Prime Minister early and ad-free with Wondery+. So what was the trick? A guy comes in and he orders a cup of coffee and a hamburger. So you give him a cup of coffee, the hamburger, you ring up the cup of coffee. Now we're talking. Yeah.

Slashing prices. And then you keep count of how much you've got in a cash register. And when it gets to be like a five or ten dollars. All I have to do is take that $10. Crumple that $10 up. Never put your hand in your pocket. Just fold it up and then get the coffee. Holder? Coffee pot. Oh, get the coffee pot. Yeah, because Big Aaron is in the bag. Oh.

Pocket. Okay. Yeah, and if you're doing that five shifts a week, you've doubled your salary right there. I was bringing home about $100 a week, but they were getting on to this.

whole thing at some point because the guy would come by periodically and just check the cash register and if there was more money in there than the receipt shows that's suspicious somebody would have to pay for it i didn't like any part of that here i am stealing and this isn't going to last very long so i quit i didn't quit

Because I had something else to do. I quit because I didn't want to get caught stealing. Yeah. And you didn't want to work there for 49 bucks with no tips. I didn't. So that was it. Here I am back on the street again. Now it's desperation time. Ben to my ghost says, we're going to go up to Stowe Playhouse and do A Taste of Honey. She's going to direct and I'm going to star. Would you like to come along and do that?

Yeah. So I'm a stock. Now I got a little job in Stove for a month. So I'm excited. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're tall and striking. And black. Yeah. A guy gives me a boat. Guy comes along and says, you're Morgan Freeman. That's all I've heard since I hit town. Yeah, yeah. So that's when I started sailing with that little boat on our little reservoir in Stove, Vermont.

I was hooked like you wouldn't believe. Immediately. What do you suppose it is? It's just your will, right? There's no engine to rely on. Is that the appeal? Like I'm making this happen or it's not happening. The ownership of the experience. I suppose. Yeah. But just taking advantage of what life offers me. When there's nothing to do, when I don't have any way of managing, you get depressed. I've had long periods of depression, not knowing when the next anything is going to come along.

In my dotage, I realized that something always did, something always does, something always will. You just keep marching. You just don't go jumping out of windows or doing something that's going to get you in the slammer just to eat. So now, I am now hooked on this boat. I go into New York for some reason. And while I'm there, I go to a bookstore and I get a book on sailing, knot tying. And while I'm there, I go to an audition for an off-Broadway play. This is...

The one you don't want to say. Yeah, yeah. And I audition and the guy says, well, thank you very much. And I go back to the store. It's a couple of weeks. They call. Would you come and audition again? So. I get on trailways and I go in our audition again. And I said, well, thank you very much. I really appreciate you coming back. And back in the store. A week or so later, I said, would you mind auditioning again? Oh, my God.

Director of Slow Playhouse, a guy named Jim Leahy. See that? It's incredible. Yeah, it's good. You've already listed more names than I currently hold in my head. He says, what? They want you to kind of... No, no. Listen, I want you to be here for my fall season. Tell them no. So I told them, no. They said, you got the job. Yeah, yeah, right. You learn these lessons, right? Right. So here I am now in an off-Broadway play, and...

We do the play. In the opening night, I meet Jeff Hunter. He says, you're pretty good. Would it be all right with you if I recommended you for certain things, for some jobs or something? Shit, yeah. Never had an agent. Then one of the producers of that play said, I was one of the ones who wouldn't hire you, and you're better than I thought. I'm going to put you on Broadway. Wow. And he did.

Now, this is the way it happened. I got another job off Broadway, Manhattan Theater Club. Nice little play. We got pretty good response. I got... great response. So that guy who was producer of that play was going to take this little play to Broadway, which they did, for which I got kudos, playing a wino, a drunk.

The play might have lasted a week. That's it. Yeah. Well, they just produced it right out of existence. It wasn't there on the stage like it was when we had it off the Broadway. The only cast member that was the same was me. That lasted about a week, but I got... Good press. Now I'm on a New York scene. New York Magazine had a little sex news on the town. And there I was. Your name was in it. On the town. Oh, baby. That's cool. That's great. It almost doesn't get better.

right? It gets better. It gets better. Well, that's good. I like that answer. So now here comes the electric company. Imani, you're too young to remember the electric company, right? Yeah, I don't know it. It was 71 to 75 PBS. kid show, but it was a really fun and funky, very 70s kid show. It was Sesame Street. First one of those, really. Sesame Street was way before. Oh my God. So it's been going forever. Ever.

The electric company was the government would fund experimental television. It succeeded. You didn't love that though, right? Because of the subject matter or the pace of it. Terrified that I would become Captain Kangaroo. Right, of course. And you'd just been on Broadway and around town. That would have been really hard for me.

I would be very nervous that it wasn't going to end well. What if it didn't end? If it didn't end, you would not go anyplace. It's like actors who I know really good actors, but they became spokesmen for a commercial actor. That's as far as you're going to go. It was such a different time. It was so regimented and compartmentalized. You couldn't do a commercial. Movie people couldn't be in TV. And TV people couldn't be in soap operas. And soap opera, it just never ended. Yeah.

But I did it all. In that period from 71 until really 87, you have 16 years of doing this part in a movie, being on a show for a minute, doing the soap for two years. Okay, 87. Now, I just want to point out, at this point, you're 50. Yeah, about. You do Street Smart with Christopher Reeve and Kathy Baker, and you get nominated for your first Academy Award. Wow. Yeah.

So I think you might have had this experience that a handful of people have, which is it took forever. And then there is whiplash. Was that a kind of whiplash? Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've just been cobbling together rent now for all these years.

Now I'm in this thing and now we're going to the Academy Awards. It feels a little abrupt. No, it doesn't. It started 20 years before. It just felt like baby steps. Yeah. Well, you can have these different columns of luck in life, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You can be like very unlucky. some quadrant of your life and then be pretty lucky in some quadrant. I picked that one over baseline luck level. I'd rather have some spikes.

I think if you keep moving, that's what happens. You step into a hole somewhere and you sink, but instead of giving up right then, you keep pushing. And I always tell youngsters, my kids, if you fall and you just lay there, people will go right past you. But if you fall and you struggle...

somebody's going to give you a hand. That's really true. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're trying, someone will come help you. That's really powerful. We don't hear that part of it. It's just to get back up. But you're right. Struggling is another option.

And it does elicit kindness and help. Sometimes you just can't get up by yourself. Yeah. But that doesn't mean lie there saying, okay, this is it. It's not it. Unless you say it's it. Keep pushing. Keep trying. You'll always get a hand. Somebody will. Something. Probably a woman. In that case, exclusively. Okay, so then... This isn't a stutter step. This is really the beginning of the very wild ride. The handful of people ride. 89's a crazy year.

Glory comes out. Driving Miss Daisy. And Lean on Me? Yeah, all of that. Interesting thing for me in this wild ride was Driving Miss Daisy and Street Smart came out. Same week. Oh, really? Yeah. So in the movies, I'm this pimp. And on stage, I'm this old man. What a range there on display. That's lucky timing. There you go. Something.

Well, come along. You and I won't call it God, but something. Yeah. It's always you. Yeah, I like your take on God. Well, do I believe in God? Well, I believe man invented God. So, yeah, I believe in me. Oh, I like that. You heard that somewhere. I know you. I've been paying attention. Why am I sitting here talking? I could do this whole thing if you want to take a nap. Just what a fucking year, though. Glory, obviously, five Oscar noms. Driving Miss Daisy.

nine oscar noms including best actor nomination for you lean on me is a huge that's a crazy year yeah

Howard, do you adjust to the notion of maybe having money going forward? Because that's now on the table. In 1989, you're starting to probably... reassess like oh i might actually have money now at 52 years old you hadn't bought a house yet at 52 had you no i hadn't bought a house yet do you remember buying your first house apartment in new york yeah i had a friend who was in real estate doing pretty good now co-opping becomes possible in my building so as a tenant i could buy my

six-room apartment for $78,000. Oh, my God. I don't have $78,000, but I am working. I go to a friend and say, I just need a quarter of that ticket loan. He said, in essence, no, it won't be worth it. So eventually I bought the apartment. Instead of $78,000 to pay $230,000. Oh, bummer. Oh, 3x. But I had the money. Yeah, you were able to. And now it's worth 20x of that probably. Now it's worth $20 million.

Okay. So it really takes off in 89. I just want to ask you about a couple of projects. One of them is Monica and I's top five. movie of all time. So we got to geek out for a second on that. But I do just want to talk about 92. That feels very special to me. Unforgiven. I didn't audition for that.

Clint Eastwood called. Oh, boy. That's a big moment. What's that feeling? Clint Eastwood? He wants me to do a Western with him? You're kidding me. I think people can have performances. They change something permanently, where no matter what happens. I give D'Onofrio as a great example of this in Full Metal Jackets. Like if you do that scene one time sitting on the toilet with your gun, it cannot be taken.

For the rest of your life, people know, well, he can do anything. That's not to say we're going to give him anything to do, but we know he can do anything. And for me, Unforgiven for You is that, well, that's done on Morgan Freeman. That guy is a legend. That's like a legendary performance.

Chemistry between you two is just, that's the part of magic I like about movies. You just don't know. You could be best friends with somebody, have no sparkle on screen, right? And then you guys are strangers and you have this deep familiarity and understanding of...

who one another are in this acceptance in this non-judgmental friendship which is so pure and interesting could you feel when you were making the movie this is a special thing or they feel like all the movies special to me i'm on screen with Clint East-fucking-wood. Yes! It's impossible. It doesn't get better. When I was a little boy, if you wanted to give me something for Christmas, give me a cap pistol and a rig. I was so good.

I could shoot five guys. I practiced nonstop. I would be twirling. Oh, yeah. Putting it in the holster. Sideways. That was bad. Yeah, me too. No one was looking, but I thought I was a bad customer. You know, you're just practicing. You grew up and you got to play that with the ultimate guy who does that. And you got to be a bad motherfucker yourself, which is fun to play. Especially if you got beat up a lot in these schools. Yeah, it's full circle. Directors.

It sounds like you've been hit or miss with directors. Mostly hit. Missed only been a couple of times. I guess what I'm going for here is... I'm guessing you must have liked how Clint directed. I love the way Clint directs. He knows when he has what he needs and he moves on. And he knows it soon. He does not.

direct actors. He directs the movie. You come doing your lines and where all the cables are on the floor. Yeah, right. As opposed to somebody like David Fincher. I had a feeling he's the opposite. of that he has a concept and they want you to be privy to that concept so if you're privy to that concept and you will do your best to give him whatever it is he wants that was what I got And my relationship developed with David.

I know why you're asking me to do this. It's not like, okay, say it like this. He never said that, but I want light situations. So turn your head just as much. It's very technical. Yeah. That's how I would feel. If I knew the game plan and... I understood it and agreed that that was worthwhile of an endeavor. I could play along. It's the, I'm not sure what I want. Why don't you keep doing things until you show me what I want? No, no.

For the listener. Morgan just physically. Yeah. That's the zone, right, that we hate. I can't stand it. They say, that was great. Let's do another. You know, just to see. What happens? You know, the same thing is going to happen, dude. That's the truth of that moment for me. And then it'll come out again. So that can be tough. Yeah. Younger directors, they'll get into that.

Well, because there's an insecurity for them. It's like, if I don't have enough, what if I didn't do it right? Well, the editor's going to put you on the mat. That version, Monica, I'm almost mildly sympathetic to. It's more the... entitled well i have you we got it let's see if you can come up with something on your own i hadn't thought of that's going to be brilliant that's just more like i'm just going to use you now into the ground because to rewrite my script

Yeah, that's the version I don't really like. Two people I really am nervous about trying to work with, and that's people who write and direct. And I just worked with one who writes and directs that I would jump off a cliff for. It's Taylor Sheridan. In Lioness. Yeah. He's just like, it's yours. If you can think of anything you want to do, give it to me. I trust you and I'm open to the Morgan magic if you want to give it to me.

I ran to Morgan Magic. That's right. That's his attitude. You know, it's like, right on, brother, right on. I'm here. And then I'm up there with these. Ladies. Some badass. Yeah, such a terrific cast. Michael Kelly. Yeah, Nicole Kidman. I've always been in love with that woman since I first saw her. Do you remember the role for me? It was Days of Thunder. I was like, okay.

I want her as a doctor for the rest of my life. Okay, when you saw Unforgiven, you grew up watching these movies on Saturday. I hope you had that moment where you thought like, oh, goddamn, I got in one of those. I gloried in the whole experience. I was always on set. Days when I didn't have to work, I hung out with the Wranglers. Just wanted to be there. Shawshank 30th anniversary. Again, in the life story, the lessons you learn.

That just happened to you. This one's interesting. I pointed out on the show all the time. Shawshank, for your average, if you ask them, was that a hit? They go, oh, it's got to be an enormous hit because every single person has seen this movie and it's fucking great. And it wasn't a box office smash. It underperformed or probably scared some people initially. I'll tell you what happened with Shawshank. I saw this terrific movie. It was called Shem Shunk.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He has the same explanation as I have about Zathura. Oh, oh, oh. I was in this great movie Favreau directed called Zathura. That's a great movie. Not one fucking person was going to step up to the ticket counter and go, can I get a Zatura? They didn't know how to pronounce it. They didn't want to try to say it out loud. All right. Kind of a middle-aged lady on the elevator. Oh, I just saw you in the Hudsucker.

Reduction. No. The hot sucker reduction. Yeah. The hot sucker reduction. Oh, my God. Oh, gee. How did you enjoy it? I want to see that. Where did you see it? I want to check. Check that out.

Oh, that's very funny. Now, did that one feel, how about this? You had just done Unforgiven. That's such a special movie. And it was received and rewarded as such. Shawshank, was it a little heartbreaking? Because, again, of your performances, that to me is still in top three. They're not really heartbreaking for me. I mean, they're heartbreaking for the studio. They put up all that money. But Darabon was a million takes director, too. You weren't loving that vibe. That was a...

Kind of tense set. Yeah. Also subject matter. I mean, I'm sure all of it added up. You're in a prison. I shot a movie in a prison. You underestimate what it's like to be just even shooting in a prison. After a few weeks, you're like, okay, novelty's worn off. I fucking hate it here. I want to get out of here. I did a lot of prison movies. I was in Attica, and I did the one with Robert Redford. Brubaker. Ah. Brubaker. Yeah. Okay.

The last movie I'm going to make you talk about, we could do this all day. You're in so many great movies. It's wild. You've been nominated a bazillion times, won several times. Monica and I love Seven. I watch seven once a year. And it holds up. It's still so smart and so good. I would hate acting with that technicality. Like it wouldn't be for me. I don't have the right disposition. So I applaud everyone that.

does it in the spirit of it because it's worth it but i'll tell you the magic of that is the way they all hold up they are masterpieces of composition and pacing and timing the work is evident it's such a great movie how did you Enjoy making that movie. What was it like working with this young, gorgeous Brad Pitt, young, gorgeous Gwyneth Paltrow? I really enjoyed working with David because I so tuned to what he was.

It gave me a lot of leeway. Did you learn about your powers a little bit in that movie? Just a little bit. I also twisted my ankle so bad, running across the field there at the end. Oh, yeah, yeah. John Doe has the upper hand. Oh, you twisted your ankle doing that. Yeah, it was not like running on level ground. I sprained my ankle, and then I think we did this shot seven or eight times. Of course. Oh, gosh. I stretched my...

My tendon so badly is not back again. So my foot tends to roll over. I wonder if there's a tall guy thing too, though. That's my Achilles is my, it's rare, it's literal, but it's not because, but yeah, when you roll, and I remember my dad used to roll his all the time.

And he said, basically, with a rolled ankle, you got to go a year without rolling it and it'll tighten back up. But until then, you can roll it so easy. Yeah. But I would say what you did in that movie and I asked, did it help you understand your own powers is. If I'm you as an actor, the confidence I need to commit to that performance and go, I'm never going to be showy. I'm not going to be loud and exciting. I'm going to force you to lean closer to hear what I'm saying.

That takes a ton of confidence. Did you have any anxiety while you're doing it? Like, I hope this works. No. When did I feel anxious about work? On stage. The only time I had a part that I knew I couldn't do, I tried to do Othello. And I've asked a few actors, did you ever manage to get that? No. That's the one that, yeah. Oh, that's interesting. I've seen one actor play Othello and get it, nail it. And that was Laurence Olivier. Oh, wow.

That tells you a lot about how hard it is. Only Lawrence Olivier nailed it. I walk out on stage opening evening. This is outside. in Texas, in Dallas, at the Dallas Civic Light Opera. And I walk out on stage in this costume and somebody yells, sing Purple Haze. Oh, jeez. Oh, jeez. My God. Oh, no. That was it. What is it about that role you think that just makes it impossible? I don't know what it is that makes it impossible.

I'm not sat and disgusted with any other actors. Ask Jimmy Jones, because he's done everything. I've done it five times, and I still haven't. Pull that off. It's like Moby Dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I almost wonder if in a boxing way, if you're like defeated by it, you want to give it another shot. Yeah, I know I can beat this guy. Yeah, I know I have it in me. I know I can.

But something you were smart. You're like, I don't have an Emmy to beat Othello. I'm going to let it be the one experience. OK, last movie, just because I'm curious how you got on. Did you have fun doing Bucket List? How did you get on with Jack Nicholson? Let me tell you for my money, Morgan.

Present company excluded. But for my money, when you watch Departed, you go, wow, this is about everyone that's great doing it all in one movie. I go like, who am I most going to want to look at in a two shot in a wide? Nicholson is as great as, I mean, what an attractive human being. Did he deliver? Oh, wonderful. You're smiling. He's Jack. I met him.

Fry and told him I'd give him my left testicle. I might give the whole package up. He was asked if he'd do it, and he said, send me the script. We sent him the script, and he said, yeah, let's do it.

Yeah, we were. Me and Jack Nicholson. Oh, man. It's also so funny to me that the bucket list was invented from the movie, and now it's just a ubiquitous phrase that everyone uses. Yep. It's crazy. Works. I'll tell you, other than Clint, I had another... icon another idol that was gregory peck interesting why of all the things i'd seen him in nothing ever came up to moby dick i read moby dick

Some time ago. And that movie was every step in the book. They got it right. And he was awesome. First, I saw him. We were at one of those award things in Hollywood. I had a seat kind of on the aisle. he was coming up the aisle from the stage and jumped out and knelt down and he said get up and then later on i got a call from I'm doing this library reader. I get, you know, actors to come and read short stories. Would you do that for you?

hell jump out of an airplane i'll read a phone book out loud for you yeah whatever so we got conversational but was jack in your list as well oh yeah When you were acting with him, did it fuck you up ever? Did you sometimes go like, oh, wow, I'm in a scene with Jack Nicholson? Would you get self-aware of what you were experiencing? No, when we were working, we were working. I work. But then I go home and I go.

Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, yeah. Jack Nicholson. Yeah, but he was probably saying the same thing. It's a similar situation for him, I'm sure. Well, I don't know if Jack has that. I don't think so. I don't know. I like that attitude you got there. It's nice. It's generous. I think it could be definitely true. I mean, maybe not him, but everyone else then on Earth. A lot of people, I get that kind of response from. If I'm working with someone.

that I hold that high up. To me, it's a ride-along. We ride together. You take your run. I'm in it. I get it. So here comes mine. I just want to compliment what you're doing. Yeah. How have you done in the past with other like strong male? Is it easy for you to coexist? Easy. Strong males aren't doing anything but acting. The pull quote. That's the truth. Strong males aren't doing anything but acting. God, that's so true. Oh, boy. Yeah. Once in a while, we lift something heavy, though.

That's right. Yeah. And then we're not needed for a very long time. Every now and then you have to lift something. That's right. Or you got to be tall. Once in a blue moon, I need to be tall for somebody. I justify my existence for a couple of weeks. Can you reach that for me? Yes, I can. Okay. Let's talk about Lioness. Season two is upon us. This is Taylor Sheridan. And as we said, Nicole Kidman, Michael Kelly, Zoe Saldana. And now you're playing Secretary of State.

So you've pretty much now played almost every member of government, I think, at this point. You're getting close. Yeah. Presidents. Notice I used the plural there. Not many folks can say that yet. Which time was it that I was playing the president? That was the third time I played the president. And here's Secretary of State. I've been the head of the CIA.

Interesting story there. Tom Clancy heard that I was going to do part as a deputy assistant to the CIA. And he said, oh, if it's that guy, become the head. Yeah. You're so close. Thank you very much. You got promoted. Yeah, just like that. So Taylor's got a good thing going, right?

i can't imagine i'm almost certain he has a lot of stuff on the shelf stuff that he has written cause he's one of those guys who write that's what he does i don't care if he was washing dishes to make a living he was writing and this stuff is on his shelf a lot of it He is so prolific. So he had Yellowstone, then he had two spinoffs. 1823 and 1921, I think, or something like that. 1883 and 1923. Okay, great.

And then you've got mayor of. Mayor of Kingstown. The king of Tulsa. Lioness. Jeez. It's like impossible. The amount of writing this human does in one year. So did it start with a meeting with you and Taylor? Yeah, we Zoomed. Taylor Sheridan wants to talk to you. Okay. I'm free. I'm free. Right. So. He said the right thing. He wooed you. And off to Mallorca to work. Is that where you shot? Wow. That's when he shot the first season. No way. Yeah, man.

Oh, come on. I'm telling you. Oh, my God. And were you sailing down there in New York? No, no, no, no. I quit sailing. I got hurt in 2008. That's one of my questions for you. There's a very weird riddle within you getting hurt in 2008. You were driving a 1997 Nissan Maxima. Was it? Yeah. Morgan, what in the fuck is going on? This was 2008 and you're driving a 97 Nissan Maxima. This is a nine-year-old Nissan Maxima. Wrong place.

Wrong time. I'm more struck by the notion that you're driving a nine-year-old Nissan and you've won Academy Awards and you're rich. It wasn't my car. Oh, it wasn't. Well, there is the explanation. You can understand why I was like, why is Morgan in this car? That was my main takeaway. Other than you were hurt. I really could not tell you why.

Okay. And when they did my blood workup, they said, well, you didn't have a lot of alcohol, so it wasn't that. What happened was I think I just passed out. They put a placemaker. in me after that oh interesting yeah so maybe he had some heart fibrillation or something something afib and just went and scary tore that car up I mean, relatively unscathed with how bad the accident was. Very bad, right? Rolled the car over. I think it tumbled. And you ended up hurting your hand pretty bad.

I broke my arm. The humerus, the big bone up there? Up here, yeah. And so there's a plate in it, and there's a pin in my elbow. It's nerve. Dammit. I have no tissues. Oh, wow. No nerves. And you have fibromyalgia now? It isn't fibromyalgia. It's not. I looked that up. It's more neuro, like neuralgia. Okay. So you had to quit sailing? Yeah. The last time I was on my boat, I couldn't park it. I had a 43-foot catch. Went out with friends one day, and I couldn't get my boat back into the slip.

That's a humbling experience. It is very humbling. Heartbreaking. I walked away. What about bringing a fucking 16-year-old kid on board who you get him out when it's time to park? Can't we do that? $49 a week like you're back at the... I'm so much a solo guy. I don't like that. That's sad. Shit happens, as we say. Yeah. Okay, so you meet with Taylor. It goes well. Season one goes well. You're back. Was it hard for you to commit to doing TV?

No, it's not much different. There's a camera, there are lights, there's script, and actors. I think so. And TV's awesome now. Yeah, what are you watching more of? Are you watching TV or going out to the movies? You're probably like the rest of us watching TV. I'm watching TV. Yeah, and it's phenomenal, right? Yeah, it's hard to go to the movies for someone with a high profile. Can you go anywhere?

Now I stay home. Yeah. There are restaurants around where I live. They'll just make way for me to make room. They'll put me in a special place. You did go back to Mississippi when you had the option. And I did wonder, is it overwhelming being famous in an area where it's more exciting to see famous people? No, very quickly get used to the fact that you're back home.

and they're respectful of that very respectful of that you can't go into charleston and say where does morgan freeman live and be told oh that's nice so what's happening in season two you've got the emotional thing that the lioness has to go through i think that's the heart of these episodes these women who they go into a situation where they've befriended somebody some other some woman

Wife, girlfriend, sister or something. Get to be close enough that she's in on what's going on. And then you have to betray that. For your country. Yeah. Now when you decide to work. hey the appetite is impressive how are you deciding when and why you'll work Do you, like, make decisions, I'm done, and then you make another decision, I'm back? I've not made that decision, I'm done. I haven't even decided I'm thinking about it, you know? It's like, do I want to keep going?

And the answer of course is... Yeah. Can you get out of bed? Yeah, I can get out of bed. Then go to work. All right, well. I have one last. I'm saying it now. This obsession with your voice. When that first started, were you like. What's going on here? Or were you like, yeah, I get it? I think I sort of got it because when I was doing the electric company, it got more developed. I'm listening to myself now in earphones and you can.

do stuff with it. Now, when I was in school, LACC, that's how my voice got put in place. Once it's in place, you know how to help it out. Play with it. Yeah. It's a gift. Yeah. Well, this has been such an honor to talk to you again. Sevens are religion. We'll be watching that now that we're talking about it. All right. Yeah. What a performance. You're such an anchor of that whole experience. You're great on Lioness, of course.

Linus is super exciting. Great cast. That's out October 27th. Season two starts on Paramount+. This has just been a delight. I know that promoting is a thankless and boring and never ending job. So I feel very lucky that we got so much of your time.

Thank you. Thank you so much. It's such an honor to meet you. Good to talk to you. Yeah, you too. Oh, should I say listen? Well, you can say whatever. All of it. All right. Well, be well and good luck. And you too, man. Be well, both of you, Monica. Thank you. And what is that over there? That's a rob. That's a rob. Okay. They grow those in Chicago. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

I'm Colin Murray. And I'm Ellis James. And if you thought we'd already covered the wildest sporting stories on everything to play for, well, think again. Yes, we're bringing you weekly bonus episodes where we dive into the sporting stories that really connect.

to at least one of us. So expect brilliant sporting stories and also tangents that nobody asked for. That's right. The things that we were reading about when we were very young that we've continued to read about. The stuff that really motivates at least 50% of the... This partnership. If you want more laughs, stories and more of us going on script, be sure to follow Everything To Play For wherever you get your podcasts. Are yours going to be all about Wales? Yes.

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The clock is ticking. Hello, ladies and germs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire. You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and...

Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all. Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville? Who done it? Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out.

Follow Tiz the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode but we'll find out when my mom Mrs. Monica comes in and tells us what was wrong.

Do I have a booger on my face? Unfortunately not. Thank God. Where did you think this booger resided? Like right here. Okay. I felt like I felt it. Mid-gap between lip and nose. Cupid's bow. Wait, is that called Cupid's bow? Right here, this is your Cupid's bow. Oh, I don't really have one. I see people with a really pronounced Cupid's bow and I'm really envious. Everyone has one. But of varying intensities, yeah? Yeah.

I had a dream last night that I had a booger on my face. And so now I feel like it was a premonition. What setting were you in? Was it high stakes? I think it was. A date? Okay. I wasn't going to talk about this. You are. I feel bad because it involves a previous guest, but it was a dream. It was a dream. Yeah. Okay, let's just be very clear it's a dream. This did not happen in the interview. It did.

I did not have it in real life. I guess I've been having a lot of dreams where I'm embarrassed by my body, I guess. Okay. Do you think this was a seed set by learning people have OCD about smelling? Do you think this is where this all jumped off? Oh my, I mean, it's possible because the dream is about that. Okay. But the booger, not so much, but maybe, maybe it's a snowball effect. There's a smelly booger too. It is the winter. Yeah. Okay, so I had a dream a while ago that I saw...

Jake Gyllenhaal somewhere. Oh, sure. Oh, fun. This is great. And I feel like there was multiple people there. But really, most importantly, Jake G. Yeah, JG. JGs. Jagers. We were flirting of course. That's what you do and it was going really well yeah yeah leading in a good direction yeah it was like it was frisky and it was bantering it was electric uh-huh about to be turned on to a full boil once you got

that bedroom door closed. That's right. Yes. And I, even my non-dream Monica was like there somewhere and she was excited about the rest of the dream. Okay, right, right, right. Like where it was leading. And so we got to the bedroom. And it was so hot. Oh, wow. You got all the way to the bedroom in your dream? Yes. Okay. And...

We were making out, we were undressing. Heavy petting? Yeah. Okay, very heavy. Extremely heavy. Okay, extra heavy petting. Like, too heavy, actually. Okay. And then he... This is really bad, but it is a dream. It's just a dream. Don't take this out of context. It's a dream.

If anyone's listening with kids in the car, this is not appropriate. Your mom's moment? Yeah, it's not appropriate for kids. He was going down on me. Okay, he went down there. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And he made... a horrible face oh yeah oh wow yep oh wow and he's so nice if his face betrayed him it was really because he has a lot of manners

He does. And he was being, and it was, he was so nice the whole day, the whole day. He was so. Effusive. So cute and sweet and lovely. And then he like made this face and I. Can you make the face that he made? It was like. Okay. Yeah, it was pretty extreme. Was it like it hit him or? No, it was more like. Okay. More of a. Yeah. And I said something like. Is.

Everything good. Everything okay. Everything cool about him. Or maybe I ignored it, and then like, he kinda tried again, and then he, and then he was like, started like getting angry. Oh. He's switched. About the smell. Okay, hold on a second though. Is this post-scene Anna Kendrick's movie? That's a good question. Because Pete Holmes turns. He's like, so nice, so nice, so nice, turns. Well, do you want to leave? That's what he says with that look on his face.

Maybe I don't remember the timing. Okay. The timeline is a little hazy. It's possible. Okay. So yeah, he turns and he becomes angry and mean. And I said, you're being mean. Oh, you said that? That's very vulnerable. Look, I don't feel that I have a smell. Okay, and is Sue? I mean, I guess people have smells, but I was like. Maybe I do and I've just not known this and obviously no one is telling me and I can't smile myself.

Oh my God. And then that was the dream. Like it was just horrible. Did he march out? Did he call you any names? I don't think he called me names. I do think he said like, ew, this is disgusting. He didn't give any action items. But he did. It was horrible. And then I've been scared ever since. Sure. It's a very scarring dream. Traumatic. I'm having a new. It's not like this hasn't occurred to me, but right now I'm having a real moment where I'm recognizing.

What I feel bad for men about is they have this constant anxiety about their erection. you talk to man and it's i have had so many friends over the years where like the mental battle going on is like i couldn't we were kissing i didn't get hard and then and then in their mind that they can't get hard with this person and now it's just this like mental battle they're dealing with non-stop yes

And the equivalent of your hardness is that the fear that it might smell. It must be really stressful in the way that an erection is stressful. And let's just say, well, how do I say this politely? People smell. Well, just the nature of the apparatus. It's going to have a smell. If to be intimate with me, it involves spreading my butt cheeks and going into my... You know, I would live in...

I think it would take me out of dating altogether to be honest. Unless it was like every single time we were intimate, I went into the shower and I scrub, scrub, scrub my bottom hole. If that was like part of the repertoire of services I offered, I would have a lot of stress about it. Okay, listen. I'm not comparing that to that, but I am comparing that. I'm about to compare it. The butthole slash anus is actually a good equivalent because even if you washed it.

Right. Let's say. The outside. You wash the outside, but what can you do about the inside? Let's even say you were extra exploratory and you just even. Stuck your finger in a little bit. Yeah, you got your finger in there a little bit and cleaned like the next inch out. Don't do that with your vagina.

Okay. I have no advice on the vagina. I think your butthole is fine to do that. I don't know. When I'm in the shower washing, I'm not. You stick your finger up there? I don't want to say that out loud, but I'm just, let's just say I don't just stop at like. the packaging, the wrapping. You don't just go like this. No, I attempt to like really clean it. Does it ever make you poop? No. Not, well, fingers crossed. Knock on wood.

Okay. Anyway, so even if you get a little bit, though, you're not really. You need to go about six inches up into your colon to ensure that there's nothing going to. If you have feces in your butt. Okay, fecal matter. It's still not time to lift your head, your earmuffs off your child if you're in the car. If you have fecal matter in your anus. In your bottom. In your bottom. Yeah.

Let's keep it clean. It'll probably still smell. So it is a good comp because you can clean the outside of your vagina. Although I have heard you're really not supposed to clean it with soap. and now i've heard like all growing up they were pitching very hard all day long on some on daytime television summer's eve that's a douche it's got a better name than that Yeah. A feminine wash? Hanna wash? Feminine wash? Yeah. Summer's Eve, it was on all the time.

It felt like this was a product that was mandatory if you were a woman in the 80s. That's been, not to disparage any brands, but that's been debunked. I've heard that that can be not a good mix for your flora. Exactly. So really you're making it worse. Oh, God. My heart goes out. It truly does. You're like, fuck, I put Summer's Eve. I think I can do it. I mean, how stressful.

I know. So now I'm like stressed and I think I'm going to take your approach and I'm just not ever going to date. That's going to. I don't think. I think you need to get a friend to smell it. Yeah, because I think it's in your head. I'm married, so I can't offer, and so is Rob. But maybe a close friend. You know, Jess, that would be a great starting point because he's not going to get mixed feelings after he does it.

That's fair. And you look at them as a, well, I don't want to say brother because you don't want that. Yeah, ew. Ew. I just don't know what else to recommend. My hunch is this is in your head. And so I think you need an extra set of eyes on this. IE knows on this. Yeah, but who most people are probably not going to pull a dream JG and like.

make a bad face are going to lie because of course you're going to lie. Cause what to do? I listen. I was in that situation when I was younger, it would, it would verbal up. And of course I never, I never was like, I shouldn't have even done that. Just the thought of doing... Wait, let's try this, okay? I'm coming up, and I go... And I just do that really quick. Stop!

Also, what? Like, this does anything. This is such a dumb move. Oh, I like that when people signal something that stinks, they double down. They'll pinch their nose like, ugh. And then they go, ugh. Like, if they really want you to know. smells for some reason this isn't sufficient and this wouldn't be sufficient you gotta go oh don't don't go by that port-a-potty Oh, fuck. I'm really heartbroken for anyone out there that's just panicked about it. Because I'm sure...

I'm sure in your mind it's something it's not. I want to say this from the outside. Yeah, I want to know. I've never smelt BO on you. That sounds like it seems like a good starter. And I don't have never smelt bad breath on you. Thank you. So I'm inclined to think this is all in your head. I don't know if it's the same. Here's a new item, Shark Tank. Okay. It's like a stick, like a chemical stick, and you wave it.

And then it impartially and objectively just says whether there's it can detect whether there's a smell on some on some scale. OK, now what if it's just it smells bad? Well, then I think we go to the GYN. You never say GYN, OBGYN. I wanted to drop the OB, you don't need an obstetrician in this situation. Correct. So you go to the GYN. The gyno.

Then I think you go to the gyno and you go, I think I need help down there. What can be done? What does science really have to offer us? Would that be too, that shouldn't be too embarrassing with a gynecologist. That's gotta be what they're- It's not too embarrassing, but I just don't think there's much to do.

There's some foods you can eat that help, I think, like temporarily. But I don't know. I'm just of the opinion that you get the smells you get. Like you said, you get what you get and you do get upset. Because as you said, some people have stronger BO. And of course that has, you know, there's deodorant and there's stuff. I have no business guessing this, but I just don't think you're having. This issue. I think this is all from a dream.

You've had some lovers. Have you detected any of them? No. Okay. But they're not... Dream JG. Like this was, this was. High stakes. High stakes in the world. Well, not that it was high stakes. It was, it was my, I think it was my brain telling me. No, it was your brain telling you you're scared of that.

Right. That's just one more thing you think of that could be a disaster. I have a follow up question. Yeah. And sorry if this puts you in gets you in trouble. Right. I might elect to not answer. OK. With that set up. But you will. I'm going to ask you to speak on behalf of most men. OK. I really love doing that. I rarely do this. I really give you permission for this. Do you think it's a deterrent for real? Or do you think people like, look, think about.

all the people in this world who are married. Yeah. Or just in relationships. In relationships. But I'm saying married, like you're in it. You're not getting out. Right. And I have to imagine that. There's a varying degree of odor among all the people. So some people are with odorous vulvas and vaginas and uteruses. Yeah, yeah. I think the fallopians are odorless. Were you going to go as far as fallopians? No, everyone knows those don't have a smell. So, I mean...

People are obviously either fine with it or they don't smell it or they're just like, fuck it, I don't care. You get used to it. Like, what is it? Okay, so let's start with something that's very interesting, I think, is we know people with terrible breath. And they have partners that don't seem to care at all.

So I think there can be like, I don't think it's as objective as you smell across the board to everybody. Right. Because I think I see people that are in partnerships and the people smell and they don't seem to care or know. And I don't think they smell it. Because they would address it. Like if Kristen reeked like BO everywhere we went, I'd go, babe.

When people hug you, their shirts smell like your armpits afterwards. OK, but what about when you enter the relationship? Forget now you're married. So, yeah, you're like, baby, we got to do this. But what about when you enter? Is it a deterrent? Like if she stunk. Not just her vagina. Let's just say she stunk. Yeah. I mean, how far down the road would you get? I don't know. Right. That's hard to say.

Like you're asking me the moment we got married. Well, I'm in pretty deep at that point already. I love her and we own a home together. Not the moment you get married when you met her. But would we have gotten to that point if she stank? Exactly. I would love to say I'm a good enough person, but I don't think so. I would way rather, I'm more sensitive to snows, to smells than I'm visual. Yeah, me too. Like I would be.

way better off with someone that you would think is unattractive, but smell great. Same. Yeah. That's why it's a legit fear because it's powerful. Smells are very powerful. But again, some people don't care about smells. I'll be somewhere. And it stinks. And I'm like, is everyone? And a lot of people are like, no, I don't smell. It smells like a fucking sewer main broke. No. So I don't know. Whatever your DNA is. Yeah. It's also pheromones. Yes. So I guess it's.

Wow, it's really to each his own. I guess it just wasn't the right match with Dream JG. I think men are appreciative enough to be down there, too, that they'll overlook... That's what I was sort of wondering. I think pretty bad for it to be an issue. Great distinction. That's what I was asking. Because I think a lot of people might think, oh, just smell of like sweat and...

I don't know what we'd even call it. Is it bad? No, there's smells down there that are very appealing to us. So there's a whole suite of smells that are still positive. Okay. But they're still pungent? Well, no, like... You've even said this, like when you've smelled a hot guy's just slight BO. Yeah, I like it. You like it? Well, it's very specific. Yeah, there's just like, there's a spectrum of it that you notice, oh, that's got to. but also you don't mind it, you like it.

And the association with you're about to get vagina. I think that's a great point, Rob. Thank you, Rob. That is what I was asking. And I also think some guys are, they want it bad enough that they could definitely... deal with it because they want the ultimate thing bad enough. And that's where I'm asking you to speak on most men. But if someone has all the options in the world like Jagers.

Probably the bar goes up a little bit. If I'm just being totally honest and guessing. Should we call him and ask? Jager's hypothetical. Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, in the non-spirit realm, in the non-dream world, I went motorcycle riding on Friday with Danny Rick. danny ricardo and this radical dude adam who is a motocross racer like you know a real I don't know. I want you to understand. I'm never going to understand. Well, it's like me playing pickup basketball with.

Michael Jordan. Yeah, that's cool. Right? Like this guy is. But is it cool? Because it's like fun, but very intimidating. Not for him or me. Yeah. Okay. So it was, it was Adam. It was Ricardo. You know, I think the standard age was 30. 33. And then a couple of great blokes from Australia that Danny had in town. And you know, Aussies are nuts. They're young and wild. And we met at Rauer Flats in the mountains. And I was on a brand new motorcycle, KLX 300. I love it.

so comfy uh dual sport and i know i'm losing you and um we rode for five straight hours up and up a mountain trail down up a mountain trail and i gotta tell you I succeeded. I wasn't ever vocally complaining, but it did cross my mind. When are we going to be done? Not done. Just we've made, we've probably reached a point where we probably can't ride for five hours with 30 year olds.

Like, oh, wow. OK, we're really here where I did it. Right. I didn't crash. Yeah, good. Also, you should know dirt bikes is my worst domain. Yeah. Out of all things you put gas in, it's the thing I'm the least good at. So I was working my ass off out there. And there was a moment where there was this huge, huge, super duper steep hill climb. which i will add there were seven of us writing five of us didn't make it so it's not wasn't me per se

Almost to the top. And I'm like, I'm now in first gear and it's fish channel and I'm losing traction and I'm trying to keep it going to get to the top of the hill. And all of a sudden I just catch the front wheel and go over this berm. So now I'm off to the side of the mountain and now I'm off the bike. So I don't.

tumble and the bike's now kind of laying sideways and I'm still in this crazy steep hill and I've got to now now this berms in between the front tire and the back so I've got to get it off of the berm back out onto the super duper steep trail then let the clutch out and start walking next to it and ride it up from the side all that to say that was like a

four minute battle with the motorcycle to as to not lose my footing fall backwards down this hill not drop the bike all this stuff i finally got up to the top of the hill I got on my motorcycle. And thank God I was first. So I had a while while the rest of them tried to climb the sail. And I just leaned over my handlebars. And I think my heart rate was like.

It had to be 185. What I realized is this is the highest my heart rate has been in a decade. And then we had another three hours of riding to do. What is a berm? It's like there's dirt, but then the dirt. because everyone's riding, it's kicking the dirt to the side so that it just naturally gets dish shaped. So it's dish shaped. And then, so that's a berm. It's like raised like 12 inches of dirt from where the trail is. And then there's a bunch of tall grass growing on top of that.

So whatever the fuck that adds to it. It's a little baby hill. It's a little baby hill on the side of the very steep hill. Okay. So. So why? Is that the question? No. Yeah. I mean, I, you, the people, look, this is great. Great. great details. Okay. But I really, I think the, the question is how do you feel about the fact that you are done writing with 30 year olds? I don't know that I'm done. Okay. Well, okay.

It made you think about your age. It was a mixed bag. Here's what it was. I was like, wow, I pulled that off, but kind of by the skin of my teeth. Yeah. When am I going to, here's what the thought was. I'm going to be out here soon. And I'm not going to be able to pull it off. That was what it was. It wasn't like I'm not going to or I don't think I could next time. It was just like, oh, wow. We hit the limit of our endurance on something that we're just okay at.

You might be on the other side of the berm. Oh, really nice metaphor. But Danny Rick, update on him as a human being. Wait, how do you feel? Oh, what part? About aging. Oh. That's the question. That's a kind of existential thought. I don't feel good or bad about it. I just feel like... I knew I needed to do some analysis and recognize that we're probably nearing the end of me being able to do that. Yeah, and? And that might be fine. Okay. Because what happens?

nicely that parallels it perfectly is like it gets less enjoyable because it's so hard yes so it's not like i feel like i'll be giving something up now and again i'm talking about i'm giving up potentially a five-hour ride in the mountains i still could go ride for a few hours or it's not that i have to give it up there's just a zone where it's probably going to get less enjoyable as i get older at a certain level and i'm recognizing i've i might have crescendoed this whole thing

That's a good way of looking at it. Like, not just you can't, but that you don't really want to. Not the version where we're out all day long. This is a ding, ding, ding, because this is for Morgan, and he had to stop sailing. That I hated that. That was heartbreaking. But also I was very grateful. Because if I go past my limit out there, it sucks. I have to ride really slowly back to camp and take a long time. If you meet.

the end of your talents out in a sailboat i don't know what happens then like if you're mid-storm and you got a fight and you no longer have the capacity that to me sounds very deadly yeah So I was heartbroken because you can tell how much he loves sailing. Sailing, ding, ding, ding. I love the Ted Turner doc. There's a lot of sailing in that. These people, they're different from me. Yeah, from me too. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Hello, ladies and germs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests.

like chestnuts on an open fire. You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not... Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville whodunit. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out.

Follow Tiz the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. A couple quick updates for me. Okay. I had Monsgiving.

And it was a real success. It was a great success. You almost gave up on making the squash. No, on the green beans. The green beans. The squash was a hit. Sorry. The squash was a hit. Really, everything was a hit. I was going to make... You know, it's a big undertaking. It really is. And it starts the day before. The day before, you have to make the stock. And that takes...

three to four hours. And then you also make, I made the cranberry sauce the night before. I made, you brined the turkey. Yeah. Yeah, this is an extraordinary amount of work. Yeah, that's one little mouse in her little tiny kitchen. I know the kitchen. Oh, boy. We talked earlier that Allison Roman, I was worried she wasn't going to do Thanksgiving this year.

because she's pregnant, but she did do it, which was very exciting. And she shows in the video her turkey has a bag of giblets on one side and a bag on the other. Double giblets? I don't like...

Yeah, no one likes it. No, it's in a bag. But I know it's disgusting. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why you need a double dose of the jib. Well, exactly. So, okay. So she was like, make sure you... gotta go get them because she said one year she accidentally cooked with them and ew that's disgusting okay so i i one was very easy half already kind of sticking out, pulled that out. Then I am...

looking for the other bag and I can't find it. You're saying there's two bags of giblets and a turkey? I thought there was only one bag. Well, exactly. So on her video, there were two bags. Have you been listening? Or are you doing the thing that I do with the motorcycles? No, I thought she got an auxiliary bag of giblets from the butcher. Oh, gross, no. I thought there was one bag of giblets per turkey. Why would there be two? Why don't they put it in one bag? Exactly. You see all the reasons.

why it didn't make sense to me. There's two bags of giblets and a turkey. That's what my whole thought process was. Oh my God, there's two. There's one on both ends. And they have to be removed. So I took the one out that was like very obvious. And then I'm looking in the other side and I can't find it. But it's also like feels like it's a little frozen. So I'm just like.

shoving my hand up this turkey all the way up. And I'm moving my little fingers around looking for this bag and I'm convinced that it's frozen up in there. Sure. Can't find it anywhere. All right. so i'm panicking google at any point do turkeys have two bags of giblets no okay so i am doing that and also you have to like pull out this plastic thing in there that's really hard it's a whole they're packing this turkey full of plastic

There's a plastic thing inside that you pull out with the legs. Anyway, so I was like, okay, I can't get this bag out now probably because it's frozen. So by tomorrow it will be unthawed and I... Like, it'll be completely unthawed and I'll be able to get it out. So I brined the turkey. Well, it was unthawed already. But I was thinking maybe it wasn't. Wait, doesn't unthawed mean frozen? Oh, sorry. It was thawed.

You're right. It was thawed already, but I thought maybe there was still some parts that were unthawed inside and that was causing the issues. Whatever. I brine it, put it in the... Give it another round of fisting. Yeah, I did. Did a full fist. Then the next day when I took it out, I did it again. Hand all the way in. Squish, squish, squish. Pull, pull, pull. Nothing. Uh-huh. No giblets. But not there. And I panicked. So then I do text Allison and I...

And I asked, does every turkey have two bags or is it just one? I'm panicking that it's in there and I can't find it. She said, no, not all of them do. I don't know why any of them do. Well, hers did. Also, this is like. TSC. TCS. BTS? TSS. TSS. It is TSS. It is toxic shock syndrome. That's right. I didn't want to say it out loud, but yeah.

It is. It's so scary. I know. You got to get those giblets out. Why are they in there? Fuck. I need a turkey grow to explain why you need to include that. I agree. Maybe you have to pull it out. Why? Some people probably use them for stuff. Oh, I mean there's some good dish. People make with the giblets. So anyway, that next day, you know, I have to make the turkey. I make the stuffing. I make the squash gratin. What are we doing for brown and serve biscuits? Any brown and serve rolls?

No roles. That's... the part you're gonna hang yeah i think it's my favorite now i can't even eat them because they're gluten but i think that was always my favorite part of thanksgiving dinner is those brown and serve rolls what's brown and i've never had this i think they're already maybe a bit baked and then you okay and they brown and then you serve them oh and you serve them hot and then when you put the butter on it just melts

I didn't make that. They're kind of like a Hawaiian sweet roll. Oh, I see. Oh, I think I know what you mean. Okay, so the squash or coutan, the stuffing. There was a kale salad with these honeyed walnuts. I had to make the gravy. I think I'm forgetting something. Oh, potatoes, mashed potatoes. With like sour cream and chives. Okay, I start cooking at 11.

And people come at six. And it's the whole time. Never stopped. Seven hours. Yes. But as we're heading towards the end, I think I cannot make these green beans. It was the last thing I had to do. And I was like, I'm not doing it. But then I looked in the mirror and I hated my face. Okay. It was the face of a failure. A quitter. A quitter, someone who cuts corners. Someone who only looks for one bag of giblets. I said.

That's not me. That's not going to be me. So I made it. And it was basically a homemade green bean casserole. You make it with green beans, mushrooms. You make your own roux. And it was everyone's favorite. Thank goodness. God, I made it. You almost cut that corner. It saved the whole meal. And I think the lesson is you got to burn out. Yeah. You got to push yourself until you want to die. Kind of like my motorcycle ride.

And then you have the pride of having sought through. Yeah. It's a funny endeavor, right? Because for seven hours, you're probably pretty miserable. I know. also that someone can eat it and say, you did a good job and you go, okay, it was worth it. I did a good job. By the way, I'm the same way. I'm not throwing stones in a glass house.

And it was so hot. I was sweating for seven hours because it was so hot in my kitchen because the oven. Yeah. Ooh, baby. Yeah. Anyway, but it went great. It was super fun. Loved it. Marymount. Fellowship. Yes. And did you guys give thanks? We gave thanks. Oh, good. It was a great night. Oh, I want to make this clear. This is important to like eight people who are listening. Yeah. Our friends. I think it might seem to the pod like I'm...

neglecting the pod, that I'm rude because I'm not including them. I don't think that's what anyone thinks. Well, in case they're worried about that. The reason it's done like this, one is I can only host maximum eight people in that kitchen. Next year. Who knows? But I can only I have a limit. And.

we already do Thanksgiving together. That's right. It would be two Thanksgivings. It would be two of the exact same thing. Yes. So I do it with people. Even worse. One would be homemade, one would be catered, and then people would inevitably vocally vote. Who did it better? And then someone's a loser. I bet you do, you little competitive mouse. Yeah. Rat. That's your rat side. You fucking rat.

Next year we're gonna do it. No, I don't think that's a good. No situation where one of the two teams is losing when both people have been very generous. No, the other team, the catered team. That would be our loss. Yeah, but not really. Sure. Why? If everyone voted and the Shepard's Thanksgiving dinner wasn't as good as the Padman's. Well, if it's not as good because no one made it, no one made it. Right.

It's not like. But in my defense, we have 22 guests. Now you're taking it as an insult, but I'm telling you. Well, I think, yeah, it would be if the verdict was we liked Monica's better and we had just fed 22 people. Well, in this case, I would be feeding the same amount of people. Great. It would be the same group. Great. So if we fed 22 people and then they said, hey, we liked Monica's better. I would feel like.

Then fuck you. You don't eat it next year. What? Yeah. You had to declare that you liked Monica's better. Well, that's weird because if I ordered sushi for everyone and then like the next week we went to someone. like a sushi chef and then i go i can cook it better and i'm gonna cook sushi and then i want everyone to vote whether they liked monica's sushi restaurant about voting no yeah you did we both did

Well, I said I will be competitive if that happens. And I said it's not a good idea because someone loses. Someone will be voted as the worst meal. And I feel like that's a weird thank you for hosting 22 people to be declared the worst of the two meals. Yeah, that's true. That is I mean, I hear you. I just can't ever like. Anytime I order anything, ever,

I don't expect it to be as good as someone who made something. Oh, I do. When I order spicy tuna crispy rice from Katsuya, I damn well think it's better than any version I'm going to make in my kitchen. Not you. Someone who is a... a sushi chef, someone who has the full recipe that's not like someone who doesn't really know what to do. It's a little different.

It's not like I'm making a pizza and we're ordering from Lucifer's. Like, yeah, I don't know how to make that. But I'm like following a really fancy, real recipe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've also now been. making for a couple years. Yeah. I can understand why you would want to be told your homemade meal was better than the store-bought one. I understand that. Uh-huh. Fully.

Do you understand how I would feel if I hosted 22 people and paid for and catered a meal and then they told me it wasn't as good as this other one they had? Yeah. Can you imagine how I would feel in that situation? Yeah, I don't think anyone needs to say anything. I just, okay, let's say that I order. I order for 22 people. I throw a big dinner party and I order. And then I make spaghetti one night later. Yes, I order spaghetti for little Doms. I don't.

want anyone at the table to say, I like this better than the meal Monica bought us. Sure. We don't have to, no one has to say it, but don't you think in your heart that people. should and would like your homemade spaghetti more than my purchased spaghetti from Little Dom's, a great spaghetti. I don't know. I think if you brought in the bolognese from Chateau Marois.

I think it would probably be split and I would expect that. That's weird. I would never expect anyone to prefer that. That Chateau is a good...

That's a nice polonaise. And I make a nice polonaise. But it's not the same as when someone makes something. Yeah, but I think your flavor, like whatever your flavor profiles are, one might taste better. Okay. To me, it would be... way it's really bad is if i made thanksgiving and then you made thanksgiving then a hundred percent no one could ever that's really horrible to say one is better than the other because that's like

your effort and work. It's like saying someone's writing is better than someone else's. Now look, we'll see if next year you are able to prepare a meal for 22 people. Maybe you will. But I think at a certain point, if we were inviting 10 people, sure, make it. At the point where we're at 22 people. I'm not asking you to make anything. I don't think you are. I feel like you're making it.

that like you're like defensive that you're catering it no i'm not defensive i'm saying i don't think we could make a thanksgiving meal for 22 people yeah That's what I'm saying. It's very hard. So because I don't think we can make enough food for 22 people, unless it's all we did this week. Right. Which is not what we're going to do. It would have to be potluck.

Great. If it was potluck, then that's a whole different thing. But if we're making, I don't think we can make food for 22 people. Yeah, that's too much. So, yeah, I would not need to know if they thought it was. worse than another meal they had that makes that makes sense um anyway well it was hypothetical and almost it was real right yeah it's just hypothetical i know

But anyway, the reason the pod is not invited is because we already do Thanksgiving together and it's a beautiful, wonderful thing. And I don't need to. We don't need to have Thanksgiving and then the next week have Thanksgiving again. Right. And so I have it with friends who I don't have Thanksgiving with. Yeah. No, I don't think anybody's hurt. Just in case. Okay. Were you mad, Rob?

No. So would you have liked to have tried it? Yeah, I would like to try it. I appreciate that. The sweetest point of America. So weird. One part's rascal, one part's sweetest point of America. Okay. Another real, just super, super quick, gift guides went up. So this will come out Monday.

Yeah. Three days after four days after Thanksgiving. OK, so they were up last week on my Instagram and people want to go look at my gift guides. They're on my Instagram. Also, they're on. I made a sub stack for it. so that I could write a little more. So what's on my Instagram is an abridged version. Go to a link tree.

You can go to the link tree in my bio and you can go click on it. And if you feel like you want to read a little more, you can do that. And there are links to the items there. Wonderful. Okay, now a couple facts really quick for Morgan. So the old, the riddle about where did they bury the survivors. So the brain teaser is.

If a plane crashed on the border of country A and country B, where would you bury the survivors? The answer is. You don't bury survivors. But I was the one who referenced this riddle, right? Yeah. So I knew this old one. Yeah. Yeah. You knew it. Okay. The South African woman who sailed around the world in the documentary, CBS documentary called The Loneliest Race. It features Kristen Neuschaffer.

A South African sailor who became the first woman to win the Golden Globe race. And you said it was harrowing. It was harrowing, and there was another competitor that got stranded in the middle of the Indian Ocean or something. She had to turn her boat around and sail for days to go rescue this person. And then when she came into the harbor a year later or something like that, not 10 months, a year, the second place was like some hours behind her. And that seems impossible. Yeah.

The doldrums, he said, are 10 degrees north and south of the equator. Yeah. And they're five. Sesame Street started November 10th, 1969. Okay, six years before I was born. And... and on my brother's birthday wait what month november okay three days before baby david robert shepherd jr arrived yes and then sesame street was october 25th 1971. very weird to think that it existed before i did because it was so in my childhood

Wait, sorry. Wait. Sesame Street started in 1969. The Electric Company started in 1971. Electric Company, which he was on, which was much funkier. Yeah. Why is Othello so hard to perform? According to AI, ... ... ... ... ... ... ... of race that can be difficult to navigate on stage, requiring careful interpretation to avoid stereotypes. Avoid stereotypes. It's new. That's a new answer. That's weird. What? What? That's weird. I am so grateful. Real time, it's learning. I'm so grateful and lucky.

You spend so much time with someone who's so different than me. It's so fun. It is. It'd be so boring if you and I were the same. I agree. But why is that funny? Because you're like really suspicious. What the heck's going on? This is a different answer. Now, my guess is you could ask AI and you'll always get a slight.

different answer that's crazy to me yeah that's not weird to you that it's like updating that quickly no i think if on the same day you did it it would be a different thing well that's bad Yeah, but it just added more and had a little less. No, the other one you talked about Desdemona. Oh. This doesn't even reference her. Oh, because Trump. Like, Rob, will you right now type in the same exact question into the Google AI? What's the exact question?

Why is Othello so hard to perform? Let's see if Rob reads the exact same one you have, or if it's completely different. It's complex themes around race, jealousy, and manipulation, which require nuanced acting and careful direction to navigate without perpetuating harmful stereotypes alongside the demanding role of Othello himself. Is that word for word? No. It's not. But it's similar weird. Uh-huh. Is it taking in the searcher? Well, it thinks each time.

Like each time it performs the task of scouring the internet and coming up with a thing. And so it's somewhat random. Then there's no real correct answer. But nor is. Yes, agreed. I mean, this isn't a factual question, but nor is there in on straight Google search, which is like you might come up with one article that has an opinion on it. And then there's another article that's got another reason why it's so there's no unified theory.

in all the results and things written about it yes but then you can look through a but you you do have a lot of options this is just like deciding yep yeah it is but i'm just saying it's not less consistent it's probably more consistent in a way because you're if you just get search results you're gonna get 10 different explanations on why a fellow is hard to perform through these different links

The AI version gave you guys pretty darn close to the same answer. Today, but last time it talked about Desdemona. Yeah, it added that. They got rid of her because Handmaid's Tale. Wait. we're scrubbing people from history is that it we're moving like women are getting erased erased oh my god okay fibromyalgia neuralgia

He has neuralgia. It's a sharp, shocking pain that occurs when a nerve is damaged or irritated. It can feel like burning or sensitivity to touch and can cause muscle spasms. Neuralgia can be acute, short-term, or chronic, ongoing. I don't want neuralgia.

me although maybe that's what i have right here i can touch it immediately now i know exactly where the nerve is okay okay that sounds yucky okay are you gonna get it checked out i don't know maybe don't complain about it until you get it checked out Okay. I'd like you to get it checked out. All right. That's it for Morgie. Don't complain about it until you get it checked.

I don't even know if I was complaining. Well, I'm just telling you. That that's off the table. Yeah. I'm never allowed to complain about anything until after I've had it checked out. Yes, actually. That's a good rule. You haven't had your vagina checked out from your nightmare, but I'm willing to walk down that road. I'm not complaining, I'm expressing a fear. That's different. Also,

You can complain twice. That's the new house rule. But if it's like a body thing, you can complain a couple times. Okay. But then you got to get it checked out if it still hurts. I abide by that. That makes sense. Like either fix it or shut up about it. Yeah. Earmark that for, I want to earmark for the next fact check. Okay. Walking down the hill hiking from the turkey trot.

And Delta calling me, being one step ahead of me emotionally, calling me out and forcing me to walk through what really happened. And I was like, oh my God, we're here. She's nine. And she's now doing for me what I have been doing for her and her whole childhood. Wait, now you have to kind of say it quickly. Can you say it really quick? Okay. Top of the hill.

coming down she's cold she's complaining about being cold she's complaining about being really hungry and then like 40 minutes later um i She's saying, I had now ordered macaroni and cheese, told Kristen to start making it by the time we got home, so there'd be macaroni and cheese.

And then I say, like, she says, are you going to eat? What are you going to eat when we get home? And I go, oh, my God, anything. I'm starving. And she goes, you're starving, too? And I go, yeah. And she goes, why didn't you say anything about it? And I go, well, I didn't want to complain about it. And she immediately goes.

are you saying that to let me know that you don't like that i complained about it and i go oh am i doing that maybe to some on some degree yeah i didn't feel like i was doing it but yeah maybe And she goes, well, I don't understand why I should feel bad sharing how I feel. And I go, yeah, that's totally true. I said, but I guess I'm always thinking in life.

would i want to be next to someone that's complaining the whole time i just try to act in a way that is what i would want other people to act so i think about do i want to take a hike with someone and listen them complain for an hour and a half I don't want to. So I just don't do that because I'm assuming no one else would want that. And she goes, well, I would want to always be my full self around everybody. And if someone doesn't.

want to be around me because I'm being my full self that's fine but I don't think I should not be my full self and I go that's right yeah that's a really legitimate point of view I think there's a lot of merit to that And then we're walking and I'm just not feeling great about it. And I go, I know what's going on, Delta. What really happens is when you complain about being hungry, I want to fix it.

I can't or on top of a hill and I can't make it go away for you. And now I'm uncomfortable because I can't solve a problem for someone I love. Yeah. And so really it's just my problem. I want to be able to fix it. And she goes. Daddy, I'm not saying any of this so you can fix it. I'm just saying it so you know what I'm going through. I was like, Jesus Christ. But she had to unravel that whole thing for me. I just said I didn't complain about it.

And without any real awareness, I was being passive aggressive. Yeah. She's just like, she's not taking that. She's like, what was that? Does that mean what I think it might mean? I love her so much. And I just realized like, oh, wow. My mom talks about this. She's like, you know, I knew at this given age you were smarter than me, which is a weird position for a parent and child to be in. Yeah. And I've heard her say that to me and never thought.

that in my own arrogance i'm not like well i don't think they're gonna fly by me and fucking a yeah i think she flew by me at nine years old on this hike she's indomitable god i love her Me too. All right. That was my, I don't need your market now. All right. Okay. Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.

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