Mindy Kaling

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Now this. People were curious what I wore a suit for. Oh, I also posted a picture.

And said, this is the face of someone trying to play it cool. So a lot of people had their guesses. It was from Mindy Kaling. Big deal. I want to say Mindy Kaling's Kaling it. But it doesn't really work. But I want to say it. Okay. She's Kaling it. Still doesn't work. We made it a third time. Mindy Kaling's Kaling it. Wow. Check her out this fall on NBC.

No, but what a delight. We've been begging. Since day one. Day one. Put it in the atmosphere, the universe. And boy, if you're patient, sometimes dreams can come true. They can indeed. You gotta wait. You gotta wait. That's the key. But they do. What a joy. And how sweet we were like, do you hear how much we want you on? And she's like, yeah, I thought it was a bit.

I know. What's wrong with all of us? I know. She's a queen. She's a queen. She's a queen. She just got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. I saw some pictures. Gorgeous. Okay, Mindy Kaling. We're so excited she is here today. Award-winning actor, screenwriter, and producer. The Mindy Project. The Office. Never Have I Ever. Sex Lives of College Girls. Inside Out. And her new series out on Netflix now, Running Point.

What a delight. So special. Yeah, I really like her. Please enjoy Mindy Kaling. Kaling it. Who's Kaling it? This fall on NB's Really Great Station. We are supported by Squarespace. Ready to share your great idea with the world? Get your message out there with an amazing website designed with Squarespace. Squarespace is where we designed our website. That's right. And our merch site, which is back up and running.

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but for 365 days a year. There's more to imagine when you listen. Listen now on Audible. Subscription required. See audible.co.uk. He's an old chair that's fine He's an old chair that's fine So nice to see you. Nice to see you. How's it going? Oh my god. Hi. Nice to meet you. Welcome. Handsome and put together. You're number two for that? You know I'm the second person I've ever worn a suit for.

It's a good one. You deserve it. Well, it's a tux, I think. Are you going somewhere? No, it's literally for you. I'm feeling vulnerable. I'm being like, no, no, that's a bit he's not going to have to go somewhere afterwards. No, no, no. you look amazing i think you very much deserve to be dressed up for and i don't like dressing up so it's a gesture to tell you how grateful i am i'm really i couldn't go all the way

I apologize. I couldn't do the dress shoes. That would be too distracting for me. It's a little Southern California in it. You never lived on the west side, did you? No. There was a pizzeria Italian joint out there called Earth, Wind & Flower. And the owner had a... ponytail and he was in every commercial and he would go classic italian food with that california flair and he would pull his ponytail around he's like this is synonymous with that socal vibe that's how

I feel about your vans? I feel like I... Do not scream Westside at all. I don't think so. Early on, you may have found yourself living there because I lived there the first 10 years I lived here before I realized that's a terrible place to live. Is it? Oh, yeah. It's like a rookie mistake when you first move.

Here you're like, I got to be by the beach. So you move there and then it takes you four hours to get anywhere. I lived on the west side at first. You did? Where'd you live? Barrington in Santa Monica. You know, that really cool, hip part of town that's in the middle of nothing. Yes, yes. Monica, I mean.

this seriously can you be indian and live on the west side effectively i love this question right let's get into it it's very white white white as we would say it's funny because i grew up in georgia okay so you might be used to West Side 5. I am used to feeling like I'm the only person who's brown, but it almost gives me like

I mean, we're going to definitely get so into this type of conversation. I get a sort of high out of being one of the white people. Do you feel more special? A little bit. Well, I just wonder practically. I like need to eat Indian food and ethnic food a lot. So this area, Hancock Park, that works for me. There's so many overlaps, but this will be a difference. Well, first, I mean, you are my number one get on this show. I'm serious. So can I say that about 10 years ago...

I had heard from some of my friends. They were like, you know, you're sometimes mentioned on Armchair and I love the show and you should go on. I always think whenever anyone references me, even when they're like.

I love Mindy that I'm like, they're just saying that. But what they really mean is they hate me. This is like a mental illness. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And forget about being mentioned on some sketch show or The Simpsons or anything like that. Yeah, SNL. I live in terror for that. But I, on some level, thought, and this is going to sound cool.

crazy that it would be like oh they think it'd be campy if they had a circus dwarf on wouldn't that be goofy and it's stupid and it's not real sad well it's comforting and i'm happy you said that because yes i will not read a single Yes, yes. It's terrible. I think I might have told you. you this or told it to your people i had only done one podcast and it went so badly that i was like i think it's not

For me. Yeah, I've heard she doesn't do podcasts. We've made a lot of just straight to you pledges on air going Mindy. promise you, you don't suck at it. I know you're great at it and you just need to come in and do it. Thank you. And I'm so excited to be here. And also I feel really honored to be here. I love the show and I know.

This may make you feel uncomfortable to hear this since I'm just facing you telling you compliments. Yeah, it will. And I want it. OK, good. This is, I think, a good one. You. make everyone sound like the best version of themselves. And they're people that, not that I didn't care about them, but I didn't.

know them or think about them. And then I now love them and I'm a fan. I'll go a step further. We have had multiple guests on. I was certain I hated. Forget even ambivalent about. I'm like, I don't like that guy. He's been a dick to me every time. i've seen him or i don't like this person for x y and z and i too am just as shocked and i think it's weirdly

comforting and makes me optimistic that even someone I'm convinced I don't like, if I sit down with them for two hours and I hear about them and where they're from, inevitably I always like them. So who haven't you liked? In 850 guests, we've had like... three people I didn't like.

And they weren't celebrities. They were experts that we just couldn't do it. They were maybe so smart and esoteric or something. I don't know. Because we just talk about real stuff. So the headlines become mute and then you just.

get to know a real person and you're always going to find something you like about a person. I think there's some exceptions. We're going to come back, you know, make you uncomfortable. And I'm going to give Monica some time to prepare because she wouldn't even come in just now. She was hiding in the house. I said play it cool.

I know, but that's part of what's cool about you. I'm already loving where this is happening. I just think you're hyper talented. I used to go to the set of Mindy to say hi to Mike Weaver. So for people who don't know, Mike Weaver was the DP on Parenthood the first two years, and then he went to your show as a director. The great Michael Weaver. The greatest and the most gorgeous, studly man. And the most beloved by a cast.

crew. He's our producing director for this new show, Running Point. I saw him in the credits and I got excited. Beloved. But I'd go say hi to him and I would hope to God you would come out of the soundstage at some point so I can meet you. I just genuinely have

been wanting to meet you for over 10 years. I'm a huge fan. Can you take any of this in or no? No, I can. And Monica, I don't know if this goes to what we're saying before. I don't hear this a lot from straight white men that they're huge fans and not that it should mean more than when an Indian teenage girl said.

it but it's just so much more unusual so thank you so yeah i think you're hyper talented i love your acting i think you're a fucking babe i think you're hot everything about you yeah yeah when you've only mostly been valued from people you're like she's so smart and so funny. I'm embarrassed how much that is affecting me. I can relate. It's the best compliment to get. I hate to say it. Am I in love with you?

Am I going to try to kiss you? Let's see. Kristen and I consider a friendly acquaintance. She would allow it. She would totally allow it. I always say if you're going to say about me either I was a genius or the funniest person alive or hot, I'm picking hot across the board. Hot across the board. Yes, I didn't have it. Exactly. It's the most LA thing about me. I mean, as somebody who...

was straight up unattractive in high school and then has lost and gained the same 50 pounds over the course of my life. That kind of compliment feels so distant. I'm sorry, Kristen Bell. We don't know how this is ending. We do not know how this is ending. Also, you probably can't do this for security reasons, but I'm 45 now. So when I pulled in...

I have a thing now, I don't know if you have this, where I'm like, oh, Dax has a shit together. I've never seen your home. I've never seen the layout. I'm a big yard person because I'm from the East Coast, but it's, again, close to my ethnic food. This feels like there's a place where you can...

work separate from where you live. And I don't want to... Everyone already knows where I live. It's fine. We got to give credit to Kristen a lot. Yeah, let's do that. No, fuck her. Yeah, we're over her. She's Mindy's enemy now. She had her 18 years. It's time to...

She has my man. She's done. But yes, the yard for me, too. I'm from Michigan. And the definition of having made it was you would have a big yard. You could run around it. And that's not a very common L.A. thing. People get rid of the yards to put. in pools yes okay money do you want to share do you want to go later

I don't know. You go. Can I talk about Monica for a second? So you're younger than me, but there's not a lot of Indian women. Now there's a lot more. Yeah, yeah. Too many, some would argue. Let's be honest. They're taking over. 10 or 12 years ago, is that when you guys started this? Only seven, but I like.

You've made it bigger because that feels good. I remember hearing about you because you were becoming well known because of it. And I remember thinking, not that I'm keeping tabs on the other South Asians, but it was like. Oh, there's another person who's out here. In the group. In the group. And then having listened to you. Oh my God. I'm kind of a repressed person and I have four friends. And there was just an openness about you that honestly.

I don't know if this is offensive to South Asian people. Oh, she was, I think, South Asian and raised by a family that seems pretty traditional in some ways. But she's not talking like somebody. Right. That's one of the reasons why I didn't do podcasts is I am repressed. I am from the East Coast. Pretty traditional. don't air out stuff, but you never say anything that would bring shame to your family. Oh, she does. At least not in the ones that I have heard. I definitely...

I feel lucky that my parents, they're actually not that traditional. They're both from India. My dad came when he was in his 20s, but his personality just very specifically is not. traditional. He's like, I don't know. He's from Kerala. That helps right away. Yeah, they're both from Kerala.

And my mom came when she was six. She grew up in Savannah. Coming over in your six is major. Much different. But my grandparents, very traditional. And I got kind of lucky in the personality department because my dad was just like, just do. Whatever. He's just relieved.

That I'm out here, I'm doing well and I have money just being candid. He's just like, oh, my God, she has enough money to live and she doesn't need us anymore for that. So they don't care. And I think he kind of gets a kick out of it. There's people at his office that are like, oh, I heard Monica say this.

about you we also talk about them we talk about a joke probably more than anybody else yes and we say he invented the simulation so all of us are a member of his sim but we say gross bad bad bad stuff i just talked to one of my friends And her mom was like, Monica, I've been listening to you and.

I'm going to have to talk to your mom. Well, OK. Then I got really self-conscious. I was like, oh, yeah, my friend's moms. That's who I'm bringing shame to for the most part. But I have to say that is a really rare gift. That you were given. And I feel that way about my parents because they're in some ways very traditional. But I got went into this path. Yes. Completely.

love and support it, even though I think it worried them. They were able to sublimate their own fears to support me. And I know it wasn't easy for them, but it is a gift because I don't think that many people whose parents have immigrated here are given.

the challenges and to have their kids go into the arts and not just the arts, the arts where you're talking about your feelings and your truths. Well, an art that didn't exist 11 years ago, maybe. Oh my God, yeah. They're like, what is this thing you're doing?

Also, I get not to throw so many compliments at you. Please do. I love it. You're someone I could point to. Like, well, I'm going out there to do this thing. There's other people. There's Mindy. There's Aziz. I think that's it. But I could maybe be in that category. And you're like a North Star. for sure that's really nice

Thank you. This can often happen to the best of us. If you hear someone being completely candid and you have told yourself that you're not allowed to be and somehow this person's doing it and getting away with it, sometimes it can lead to some resentment.

It kind of shatters your story a little bit. We went and saw Hassan stand up and Monica had kind of a breakthrough. She's like, I've been hiding my Indian-ness my whole life, thinking I could only succeed if I assimilated. And here this person just showed me, no, I could have embraced it the whole time. done the same thing. And she lovely enough and is confident enough could be happy about that, but could have also fucked her up a little bit. Yeah. About the candor thing.

I mean, I think that's what's intoxicating about listening to this podcast is how candid people are. I don't know if you guys have heard this before, but it unlocks the listener. When you're talking to Bradley Cooper and you guys have such a history and so much in common.

so open about sobriety and mistakes you guys have made and what you've learned from them it makes me even as I'm listening to it being like god I wish there was someone in the car with me right now so I could be open with them too but so you saw Hasan yes we saw him live I thought it was incredible but Also, the whole audience, it was like 90 percent brown people. And this is my baggage. I walked in and I was like.

There's so many Indian people here. It's just old history. It's the hurdle I have to jump before I'm like, it's fine. But it was just weird to sit there and be like, the reception's amazing. I could have leaned in, but I took a big pivot the other way.

So I was not raised around a lot of other Indian people. I was born and raised in suburban Boston. What's Cambridge like? Is it a lot of professors? It's professors and children's professors. And then my parents are from two different parts of India.

So my dad is from South India. My mom, she's Bengali and she's from Calcutta, but they met in Africa and they were the only two Indian people. My dad speaks Tamil and my mom spoke Bengali in Hindi. The only language they had in common was English. What were they doing in Africa?

My mom was a doctor at a hospital that my dad was helping build in Lagos, Nigeria. That's a meet cute. It's a meet cute. An architect and an OBGYN. And so they met and it was one of those things where I think literally their African friends were like, we know two Indian people.

We should be together. And they were right. But it's sort of a nuance that I think only Indian people get, which is that culturally it's so different in the 70s to be Bengali and be Tamil. And my dad was from more of a traditional Hindu family. My mom was also.

Hindu, but the way they celebrate it is so different regionally. My dad doesn't celebrate Diwali and my mom does and my mom doesn't know about some of my dad's holidays. But the only reason I'm bringing it up is not to give like a long, boring history about how my family met, but when they...

met each other, the culture that they had in common was like, okay, we speak English and we're moving to the United States. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. And so I wasn't raised speaking any Indian languages, which I think is huge, crucial, actually, to the way you're brought up. And I...

Now have adult Indian friends or ones that I made in college where they were raised kind of within their community. You'll hear people that they're raised in a super Indian neighborhood in New Jersey or in Michigan. And there'll be these little pockets, Artesia, parts of Chicago. But we weren't that.

So all of our friends were sort of my mom and dad's white co-workers and their children. So my dad sort of made a decision that he's like, I'm in America. I'm going to love the Red Sox. I'm going to love the Celtics. I'm going to get into sports. And that culturally we're diving in. We're still Hindu. We still do holidays. We still were raised eating Indian food. But culturally, I didn't have this community.

Around me of like auntie culture and all that. Yeah, I know. That's the Hudson. Half the jokes are about the aunties and aunties. And I relate to it, but I don't know it. Yes. I actually have my literal aunts, but I don't have that extended family. So when I started doing comedy. I didn't have this rich background of observations about Indian culture and other friends to banter with about it. The Toyota Camry joke.

Right. Which is so good. Is that a famous? Yeah. It's like the official car of Indians. Yeah. And like I hear that and I think it's funny and I relate. I had one. I didn't really have that. And so when I would. think what I want to write about, the Indian identity didn't bubble up to the surface. And then my first thing that I did was this play called Matt and Ben, where I played Ben Affleck, right? And then I got hired in The Office. And it was also 2001 to 2004. Hollywood is not clamoring.

for shows and TV and books about. your identity. That was, let's be honest, a 2018 thing. We needed streaming and niche audiences, which turned out to not be niche audiences. That's so well put. They take a risk on shows like Never Have I Ever. Yeah. And then it gets 40 million households viewing it. Thank you.

Thank you for knowing that. It's not a niche at all. In fact, it's one of our biggest shows. You know, I feel even now very sensitive about it. By the way, I hadn't heard this. I just read enough articles about you today that those people had heard about it. One article was talking about the.

You've had a lot of criticism for not having more diversity on your cast. And I was just getting defensive of you. And I was thinking all writers have the obligation to write their experience. And your experience was being surrounded by white people. So to have created like two, two. in the Indian community, that would have been fraudulent.

Yes and no. I, of course, have the defense mechanism, which is like, I was doing the best with what I had. It came from the officer's number 11 on the call sheet. No one was like, she'll be the one that has her own show. I just had to be like, I think I will be, even though I'm getting no feedback. that corroborates that ambition. And then when I did my own show, 2011 or 2012, I was like, okay, I got to do things exactly like I was in The Office because that was like a big hit.

But, you know, they say the criticism that hurts the deepest is the ones that you're like, ah, it's kind of true. When I look back in the Mindy Project, I do wish. that I had paid more attention to that. Every Wednesday morning, we got the ratings from the night before, and I was consumed with fear. I wasn't thinking in those terms. You were hoping you could keep yourself at the party. You hadn't yet thought you could bring other people. No, and honestly...

I was a dark skinned Indian woman that weighed 150 pounds. That was the lead of a show. And so I was like. Man, this looks pretty damn diverse in my opinion. I hope this is palatable enough. I hope it's not defensive and I hope it's just putting you guys in my mindset at the time. But... I think after that, I had opportunities. I was like 37 when that show ended. Never have I ever.

came on the heels of that show. And I could not be more proud of the diversity in that and inclusivity. But that criticism is one, even to this day, I look at the different projects I do and I'm like, how can it look modern? How can I not be kicking myself later? While also being... true you know we've also seen the shows where you're like this is the most cynical diversity I've ever seen exactly it does not work it's fragile and insincere we've all seen those shows where we're like

Hey, audiences are smart. But the thing I've learned now is if you do spend a little extra time, you do get the right casting director. You can have these really great dynamics like Maitreya Ramakrishnan and her two friends on the show. One's East Asian, one's Black, and they're the most. adorable threesome of friends. But you did open casting for that.

Our friend Anna, who works with Kristen, she brings it up all the time. We need to do open casting like Mindy. She's the only one. So I really push back on the diversity thing because you're the only one putting out a real huge net and saying, hey.

we're doing this. It's not just the people in this city who's out there. What's tough about finding young Indian women is culturally, we're not pushing our young girls to like go into this field. Things have changed a lot. I'm a producer on this new Zarna Garg show. Do you know? No. She's a stand-up. She's Indian and she's based in New York and she kind of came up during the pandemic. Three...

children, teenagers. She's so funny. You guys would love her. She does a lot of stuff with her family and we're shooting a pilot for her at CBS. And when we look at the casting for that, for her kids and her husband, it's remarkable.

how different the pool is how many more people there are now as opposed to 2012 even in 2019 when we did never have i haven't yeah but guys it's exponential growth because it's not just that the parents aren't pushing their kids it's that the kids didn't see any one that they found their place in like I always say I needed Nick Cage is he good looking or not I'm not sure he's tall that seems like enough he's the lead maybe I could do this you just need somebody to make it seem

real or plausible. It's such a valuable tool when you're home for Thanksgiving. When you're sitting with your parents, when you're a sophomore in college and just being like, OK, I can point to these examples, particularly, I think, with Indian parents where they kind of need the data. Sure, sure, sure. They're like, do you have any successful data points? There's a justified.

and baseline fear that's a little higher in the Indian family. Well, when you change up your whole life to start a new one for your children, stakes are really high. You want them to be safe. And then they're like, I'm going to go to LA. and we'll see what happens. There's also a reality to who came. Your dad was an architect. Your mother was an OBG. Your father was an engineer. Professionals coming here. And now the sky's really the limit. I just saw a complete unknown and we didn't have those.

types come in in the 50s and 60s. The Bob Dylan. The sort of boho Indian artists and stuff. The Indian Bob Dylan. We're getting the visas. That's what people forget. It's not that they're not coming here. It's They can't come here. You come here because you're providing a service. You had to show 25 pages of paperwork that says that you deserve to be here. Exactly. Because Monica and I did meet the Indian Bob Dylan. He was a chai walleye in front of the hotel.

Now that motherfucker had more pizzazz than anyone I've ever seen. But yeah, that guy's not getting invited. Yeah. February of last year, I guess it was a year ago. There's Bob Dylan's there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just aren't here. That guy was incredible. He was. Oh, one thing to add, maybe to take some guilt off and also just to tell people that's earned being able to reach back out and help other people or think about diversity.

That's earned over time. You don't really get to do that right off the gate. As you said, you're kind of like, I got to prove myself. For me, first, in order to get to that next step. I obviously, for selfish reasons, like to believe that. But, you know, I'm often amazed now when I see younger people, how much more activist energy there is to young artists. I was literally.

like I need to stay in the WGA I need my health insurance I have to pay my rent I have to keep this job but these are truths and it wasn't until 34, when I started thinking, okay, I have safety here. I can now be thinking about anything other than my own self-preservation. I feel like when Issa Rae was doing Insecurity, I'm paraphrasing this, you'd be like, what drives you? And she's like, I want to make opportunities for others.

young black artists. And I'm literally like, oh, damn, you can be both. That's why I'm often really inspired by younger people and kind of shamed by that. Well, but have you heard the Malcolm Gladwell episode token? No. It's worth listening to. I feel like it could relieve you of some stuff. It's all about Sammy Davis Jr. and what he went through, what he had to put up with. It's heartbreaking in so many ways. And there's just a lot of good data about it as well. I was more making the artistic.

point which is you had just spent eight years surrounded by white dudes in a writer's room on a cast that was largely white certainly your current experience was that When I'm thinking about what I know inside and out at that point, it would be to be the lone brown person in a room. That's what I would know best. The thing that makes me feel guilty to admit is sometimes that's like a really nice feeling. Sure.

That's what we were saying, sitting on the West Side, being accepted by the group that you're always trying to get. accepted by as a young person to reach that, even though, yes, it's fucked up, but it is real. I had had some positive experiences. Like I went to Dartmouth College, which is in New Hampshire and pretty white because I felt.

exceptional I don't this is just like a defect in my brain because I was the only one there it made me feel special which gave me confidence it was a college that's not known for its performing arts and so I would be doing these shows and everyone would come because it wasn't NYU or Columbia or USC Northwestern where there's actually shit going on. Right. And it made me feel so confident. I started getting those accolades that made me feel like I could tell my parents, hey, I won the...

playwriting competition. Hey, my play got selected to do this and all this stuff at Dartmouth that they were like, oh, she seems... successful in this it's worrying us less right yeah then what i learned in the writer's room at the office i think that kind of training that intense eight years so many of my shows after it where the cast members look completely different the storylines are different i took

so much of that. And I think that's why those shows are successful. Because you had the architecture of this. The DNA from how you make that successful show and then just take it and put it into these different casts. And I really just owe that to

Greg Daniels. Yeah. What was Buckingham Brown? You went to a school from K to 12. Buckingham Brown and Nichols. I went there from seventh grade to senior year. OK, what was the vibe of that place? It sounds fancy. Yeah, Buckingham Brown and Nichols does sound. It sounds like maybe a suit store. It has like a Hogwarts kind of energy. No, it was a very artsy private school in Cambridge. A hundred kids per class.

It was really important to me to go there. I took a class that has stuck with me for the rest of my life on satire when I was in 10th grade. At that time, I didn't know the difference between parody and satire. I just thought, like, I watch SNL because I think it's funny and I like it, but we really...

parsed through all the different things and why they're funny. And was it using pop culture as well? Yes. We would read Mark Twain. We'd read like Huckleberry Finn. But then we would watch episodes of Saturday Night Live and talk about what they had in common and comedy and use your social justice. It was a very fancy private school with amazing teachers. But what I learned, and I think everyone goes through this at some point, was it was culturally interesting to be around.

Children whose parents thought education was really important, but who are also from. This, for lack of a better term, cultural elite. I tried sushi for the first time. My parents were like, well, we don't eat that. That's expensive and weird. I was using chopsticks. People had summer homes. Martha's Vineyard. Vineyard, like Hamptons. When summer is a verb.

when summer's a verb and being able to navigate in those circles and go to college and know those kinds of people was, I would argue, almost as valuable as anything else. Because you get into these writer's rooms and can you pitch jokes? Can you listen? But there's like a... cultural element when you go to rooms with like a bunch of guys who went to Harvard. And then I was like, oh, I get this. And that's helped me so much. What kind of girl were you in this school? I was friendly, chubby.

Was it co-ed?

Co-ed. I already know that, actually. I heard you say you would stare at boys that wouldn't look at you back and you would have pornographic thoughts about them. Yes. And just be like, what if? I was thinking of Monica, of course, when I read that. Very similar to Monica's story in high school. This may sound like a... huge swing, but I'm going to set it up by saying we've seen this really predictable pattern where we have people who are on Disney and their sexuality was kind of repressed.

It was forbidden. And when they break out of the Mickey Mouse Club, it's on. They're like super outwardly sexual. And then we've had a bunch of mostly actresses who their sexuality was overly embellished. They were sexualized as young performers. And they clamp down when they have a choice. And I was just thinking that for the girls that are super hot that every guy is trying to fuck, their almost state of rest is I got to keep that away. But if you can't have it, I think you're liberating.

To be a pervert, kind of like guys. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. This episode is brought to you by Audible. Wellness is more than a goal. It's a lifelong journey. And that journey looks different for everyone. It's about discovering what inspires and empowers you. Maybe that's learning how to manage stress, cultivate better habits, or finally taking time for yourself. Whatever your goals, Audible is here to help you embark on a wellness journey that fits your life.

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I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankopan. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we're talking about the singer and songwriter John Lennon. His band, The Beatles, smashed musical conventions. caused hysterical adulation.

and are still the biggest selling band of all time. But that adoration obscured a complex and combustible character. He might have been singing Give Peace a Chance, but his personal life was often far from peaceful. So who was the man behind...

the round glasses and how does his legacy hold up today? What about you, Affid? What's going to ring your bell about John Lennon? Is it the man, the music? There is something about the iconography of Lennon. He's got such mystique around him and I cannot wait. to dig in and separate facts from fiction and find out who he really was. And of course, he started the Russian Revolution in 1917. Oh no, that's a different Lenin altogether.

Follow Legacy now from wherever you get your podcasts. And binge entire seasons early and ad-free on Wondery+. What do you think of that theory? Your theory is that if you are repressed like that, it makes you sort of a... Well, if you've concluded that these guys aren't even going to come at me, you don't have any defenses up. You're not like, I got to keep them away. They're trying to fuck me.

to like, oh, they're not going to. And now you're kind of like, I think I want to. Yeah. And how? I think that's true. It's so interesting. I worked in the office for eight years, love the experience, largely male cast. What I want to write about is about women who are ambitious.

And lust after people that they're not interested in. Yes, yes. Because then every subsequent show, the Sex Lives with College Girls, this new Kate Hudson show, it's all just about women who are trying to make the most of what they have and have sex and be successful. The correlation from how I was. in high school and what I didn't have is just expressed in those shows that I was able to do after The Office. But it's really interesting to me. My shows...

have a lot of horny women. My friend BJ Novak makes this joke that every trailer for any Mindy Kaling show has a hot man's torso in slow motion. And I was like, how dare you? That's incredibly reductive. That's not true. And then it is true. Yeah.

Every trailer. It's great. It's your turn. It's like Pauline Chalamet, Kate Hudson, Maitri Ramakrishnan, their head is turning. And it's just like those 80s movies that they can't make anymore. The National Lampoon movies where it's like a guy is following a bouncing girl.

On the volleyball team. In running point, she enters the coach's domain and he happens to be shirtless doing pull-ups. I do a lot of pull-ups. Almost never shirtless. I mean, that's a good point. You can give it a try. It's a solid point. Might be better. It was. Jay Ellis. So Jay Ellis on your show and he's like, could I wear my sweatshirt for my pull-ups? You'd be like, whatever makes you comfortable, Jay. But if it's all the same to you.

For the story. It's like having Jordan there and there's two sports on the table. You could either film him playing ice hockey or play basketball. We should have him probably play basketball. We should have him play basketball. Yeah, we should get that top off and see how many pull-ups we can do. And for the record, JL, he is.

a very funny part in this. He's more than just as hot by, but for the trailer. Yeah, you got it. You got to hook him back to Hogwarts and seeing pornographic images. Was it all encompassing when you were home? Were you like, oh, I want. These boys don't like me. Do you know, I think there's a link.

between this sort of fantasy because obviously I would idolize a guy and just be like oh and he's probably like this and he's probably like this and I bet he treats his girlfriend so well super nice to his mom and he kisses a lot during sex like all that

stuff right so slow you almost want to speed them up i've been here for 90 minutes but when you are someone who lives in those kind of romantic fantasies i think it informed my writing i was creating these scenarios in my head, which could never have.

You lived up to what you were actually experiencing as someone who lost your virginity when you were 13, I think. Good memory. It was seventh grade. So it could be either 12 or 13. I hope it's 13. I hope it was a solid team. Does it help you to know I was 5'11 and 100?

159 pounds. I've been this size since then. That does help. It does, right? And my girlfriend, she was in ninth grade. She's an older woman. Okay. And she had enormous boobs and was a woman. We didn't know what else to do. So you are the thing that people make fun of teen shows. They're like, they all look like they're 30.

But you were like, me and my girlfriend were that. We were. We were Riverdale. She was 15. She was in ninth grade. So it's not a sad indie movie. It's a nice CW show. Yes. And she had already had sex once before and she had enjoyed it. It was a teaching moment for dad.

I mean, it was a very brief. We're being so honest. I had made a mixtape and I had hoped that the coitus would start exactly when Love My Way by the Psychedelic Furs came on because that was my favorite song. And it did. And I don't think I made it to the chorus. I had a condom on good but then I didn't know what to do after that I was like when do I stop

Then I just kept humping for a while because when I was that young, my penis just stayed hard. I just kept humping. I was like, when do I? Is she going to tell me when this is over? Like, I'm ready for this whole thing to be over. Wow. Oh, my God. I mean, I have a bunch of follow up questions. Yeah. Hit me. So.

It kept going. I didn't know that was possible. Well, I think at that age it was possible. Was she like, hey, we're good. We're talking probably within the first five seconds. I had already reached. So she didn't know.

No, because I was wearing a condom. Right. Yeah. Where I was on a couch, it feels relevant because there wasn't like a lot of options to move around. And I hadn't thought past that. I didn't know when does this conclude? Well, you're fun alone. And so I just kept pumping. And the longer I.

I was humping and I was like, this is awkward. I don't really know. When did we stop? Because TV and film don't really show. Yeah. They don't tell you. They didn't prepare me for that. I had seen Valley Girl and a lot of good films, but none of them had the guy confused on when he should stop. So yeah.

me to write that in to something you'd be in trouble if you tried to tell the story of a 13 year old and a 15 year old having sex no it's good okay i just want to bring up so monica admittedly she lived in deep fantasy and part of the Fantasy was good will hunting. She watched it in her head. Famously, I know and listen to the episode. Oh, the Matt Damon episode. Which was such good listening. What a moment. This is number two to that.

Or tied? I'll take it. It can't be tied. It's not tied. But really, before I was like, I'm nervous, I'm never nervous. That's right. The only other time was him. Because we had a little, it's probably gone. It's in the bathroom, maybe? No, no. I went to the bathroom and there's a photo of you.

I hope you use the restroom. Yeah. Okay, good job. Ike Barronholz said to quote, bring snacks. Oh, yes. Because it's a long... You'll be here all day. You'll be here and I was like, okay, that's good to know. Get hydrated. Wear something very comfortable. Maybe bring your own couch cushion.

because it'll be all day. I'm still thinking about when Dax called me hot at the beginning. Yeah, you're very hot. I follow you on Instagram and I often look at pictures of you and I go, she's so hot. That's like really nice. I've told Monica that. I'm not doing this for your sake. This is a new information for me. Well, that's the outcome you...

hope for when you post those photos. Of course. And you think, oh, the best, some anonymous pervert in the middle of the country thinks that, but to think a celebrity is thinking you're hot, that's pretty good. I would guess... Many, in fact, most people think that. Hey, that's new and that feels nice. Thank you. OK, so you liked boys, but did you not have a boyfriend through high school? No, not even through college.

Now, this is really personal, but we just talked about mine. And I got to bring you into it, Monica. Sure. There comes a point when I met Monica, she was. 27, 8? Yes. And as she was approaching 30, I just started getting the sense maybe Monica hadn't. I probably told you. Well, I asked you ultimately. I said to Kristen, I don't think Monica's been with a...

dude. And she's like, yeah, I think she has. And I'm like, I don't think so. And then I needed resolution to that kind of argument. Professionally, you needed to. Luckily, she didn't work for me. That's true. At the time, we were just friends. We argued about podcasts all the time. She hadn't. And then my first. thought was...

Is it a religious thing? Right. Waiting for marriage. Yeah. I was like, do you want to be married? Is it a religious thing? You kind of want to say yes. There was a part of me that wanted to say, yeah, there's a real reason that.

But I haven't. And there's a reason nobody wants to have sex with me. It's because I'm waiting for marriage. But no, I was just like, no, it's just hasn't happened. But then it becomes a thing, as Monica explained to me, where it's like now you pass some point where you're like.

oh my God, people are going to think this is weird about me. Were you starting to have any of those fears? Yeah, we're describing the premise of The 40-Year-Old Virgin, my first movie, which is good to hear that besides being just a funny comedy or like speaking to a truth. In my mind, I said, this has to happen. before I'm 24. And I don't know whether I heard this afterwards or not, but I remember one of the great gifts that Tina Fey I think has given.

to us besides just being really funny and I love 30 Rock and just being such an amazing joke writer is I think at some point and she's not someone who is super open but she said in a book or something that she lost her virginity at age 24 and I remember thinking that's like a very nice thing to do. It's a gift. To give some guideposts to nerdy women. She's beautiful, smart, happy marriage, beautiful daughters. And I thought that was great because we can't all be Dax.

We can't all be 12 and fucking. Well, hold on, guys. Don't make me the enemy. No, no, no. I was in a hick town and I was super large and we were bored. No, no, no. And I feel like I keep making you feel self-conscious about it. But so I remember thinking that it happened before then.

Good for you. You're way ahead of me. Did you? Monty had this too. There is an ambition. So if you do decide you're going to do something, anything in the world, you will figure out how to do it. That's true. And I think you pretty much are like, I'm doing this. It was like a ticking clock at one.

point I was like, it really is time. I wasn't like, I don't care who. Doesn't have to be the love of your life. That was similar to how I felt. I didn't need that, but I didn't want to have a random hookup. And then I was never in a relationship. So I was like, how am I going to do it? So one thing I think that's tricky about Indian culture is this idea that in my house, dating or any of that was pretty much forbidden. In high school, no one is dating. By the way, not that

anyone was coming after me or anything but i also knew that it was not an option and then you're expected to sort of like go to college and then meet someone and know how to date and then fall in love and get married but with what skills and everyone's already had five girlfriends that you're gonna meet i've not yet kissed somebody right

Or even know how to be normal in romantic, intimate situations. Forget even about sexual situations. Situations when someone wants to go to the movies with you and you're like, I only know how to do this with my female friend.

Yeah. Like, I know I had to go to the movie with my cousin. Yeah, what do I eat when I'm with you? Am I getting the popcorn and the milk duds? You've seen this probably people go into, I think I just need to have sex right now. Right. And so I didn't go through that, but now that I have three children, definitely.

want to de-stigmatize this you know I do feel pretty Indian and Hindu in a lot of ways and I really want to instill that in my kids culturally but I do think what I want for them is to be like yeah you can go on a date or you can like somebody in Yeah, I didn't love that. It's also a source of a lot of.

My comedic storytelling, Never Have I Ever is literally about a nerd who asks the hottest guy at school, would you have sex with me? Growing up in the 80s and the 90s, and I think Dax were about the same age. Four years older than you, but thank you. You are? Yes, yes, yes. 75. Sorry. You go ahead and say sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Are you 50? I just turned 50. Congratulations. Thank you. That's a good one. I made it. So in the 80s and 90s, it felt like there was so many.

coming of age for this like very specific kind of guy a geeky guy can't buy me a love and then later Judd did it with Superbad and this is why I always feel like it's crazy when people can't watch things with subtitles because I'm like my entire life was being able to relate to characters who look nothing like

Like me, I can do it easily. I'm very invested in Ross and Rachel and we were on a break and like I can relate to them. Yeah. And so it's crazy when people are like, I can't watch Parasite. What if they're dyslexic? First of all, I loved Parasite. But what if. Reading takes so much of your concentration, you're totally missing all the visuals. That's a separate situation. And sometimes I find subtitles annoying too when I just want to relax. So I felt like that felt really untapped.

and fun, this thing that I could relate to and wanting to do shows and TV about that kind of stuff. So we have to go through a couple of the fun touch points, touchstones of your ride to here, which is, as you mentioned. you wrote for their comedy magazine jack-o'-lantern very briefly it didn't work out agrimonious but i just felt it was not

My idea of fun, it felt a little too competitive and there was no performance element to it. So I did more sketch comedy. I more hung with like the actors. Right. And you were in an improv troupe. Which I loved. And you did stand up. I did stand-up briefly after college when I moved to Brooklyn. But when I was in college, I did all those performing arts groups that you then immediately learn when you graduate are like so beyond lame. When I was at college,

It was so fun and felt so cool. But acapella in short form improv. Yeah, yeah. And I made some of my greatest friends. Like my godmother of my three children was in my acapella group. Brenda? Jocelyn. Brenda's my other dear friend. Okay. Brenda's who I did Matt and Ben with. And you broke her in... I broke her nose on stage. Yes. When the New York times was. While they were there. While they were there. Do you think their presence added to that happening? Yeah. And then also my deep.

lack of like coordination because I had to be the person that threw the punch. Right. It was off, off, Brad. We didn't have like a fight coordinator. I was just like, so I'm going to punch and you just kind of duck back. Sure. That's a great plan. Forget where the audience is. Yeah. We're like in a nine.

DC Black Box Theater in the East Village. That was crazy. Did you hurt your hand? Because often, if you've broken someone's nose, you could break your hand. No one ever thinks about the other victim in a punching. Yeah. They don't think about the predators. Well, you do, because...

Yeah, I've broken my hand. It does hurt your knuckles. The St. Vincent's Hospital was still open then and she's getting her nose checked and I'm like, oh, my knuckles kind of hurt too. Hey, wondering if we could take a little x-ray? But she was such a good sport. I mean, that was a real instinct. of like, the show must go on. I wouldn't want to ever see someone get punched, but also I really wish I had seen that. You're going to remember that for your life if you go to a play.

And one of the actors breaks the other actress nose, especially if it's two women. And dressed in drag, she recoiled and there was a silence. And I was like... I felt that. But I had this feeling. She fell, right? She stumbled back. She didn't fall. But I remember this feeling of like.

I definitely felt it, but is there a chance she didn't? Right. You know, like, my hand feels like it, but is there a chance that it skimmed? Do you know, like, when you are walking in your house and you hear a horrible sounding splat, like someone, surely they broke their bones, and then your kid's like, I'm fine. And you're like, how? Yes, you get little miracles. You get little miracles. And I was like, is it?

One of those moments where it didn't hurt her. Well, I think that's why the first step of processing grief is denial. That's the denial phase. You're like, well, I felt it, but maybe she didn't. It was total denial. She's like a real actress and she still acts now and she's a real. theater actress. She has her own theater now. Yes, she does. In Wellfleet. And so she rolled a date. She stepped back.

We had to go off stage. They had to stop the show. But it was the first time where I was like, oh, the show must go on in real. And we were like, this is a 50 minute play. But it was really her being like, I want to go out and finish it. Again, not to keep bringing it back to Jordan or Isaiah Thomas playing on a broken ankle.

In the finals, you got to do it. It's game seven. Jordan, food poisoning or was poisoned. Yes. Getting through it. Dave Stass and Ike Bernholz talk about that moment all the time. I can only imagine them being from Chicago or at least Ike and how much they must talk about.

Jordan oh my god those guys love you too I love Ike so fucking much there couldn't be a better guest he is wonderful he's coming I think he's coming yeah he's coming I was delighted to see him in the credits for Running Point and doing the show with him and Dave was so fun because we'd work together. Dave is his partner. He made the best joke I've ever heard, which is Dave is a Gentile. And Ike says that in several pitch meetings he has said he lost a family member in the Holocaust.

He fell off a guard tower. Yes. And poor Dave. Dave is like, hey, can we not call me a Nazi like in another general? Is that okay? What a joke. In a good old fashioned general. It is. It's classic. It's a classic, and those guys are a throwback. Like, I've never met two guys and worked with them where they're just so... hyper masculine, you know, like the kinds of guys that remember literally crying at an NBA finals. They love Derrick Rose. They love Jordan. They remember the...

Pippin, Jordan, like they're just talking about that. They're so straight and so Chicago, but then also completely without any kind of agenda, feminists with daughters who care about women. And so when we're doing the show, Jeannie Buck...

approached me about doing the show because she liked The Office. So really quick, Jeannie Buss is the daughter of Jerry Buss who had owned the Lakers. So the great Jeannie Buss who runs the Lakers decided that she wanted to do a show about her life and she had seen... a lot of shows and books written about the Lakers where she was like a side character and she is the woman who runs this and she has the most difficult

sexy, glamorous job. When I was watching the title sequence, because it's giving us a pretty good layout of the setup is in the title sequence. Oh, you've seen it? Yes. Okay, cool. And as I was watching it, I was like,

Well, this is Jenny Buss's story. And then I saw her name in the credits and I was like, oh, good. She's participated. It's so funny you mentioned that because when we did the trailer, people will comment. Oh, so basically you took the Jenny Buss story and made it a show. They think I'm.

Rift her off. And I'm like, no, no, this is her idea. She came to me. She's an executive producer on the show. I love her. Is she married to Phil Jackson? They dated. They dated, okay. Seriously dated. Yeah, yeah, for a long time. Yeah, she's married to Jay Moore.

Oh, she is? Stand-up. She loves comedians. She loves comedy. She gets to hear his perfect Walken anytime she wants. He does the very best Christopher Walken. In fact, I think he's who started the Christopher Walken impression. On SNL, he used to do that, right? Yes. And it's not just that his accent's so perfect. It's he has tapped into what kind of things Walken would say. One of his famous ones is he goes, I don't like sports, but.

Gymnastics. Boys or girls bouncing on the mat. It's exciting. It's not about the accent. It's that this guy would love gymnastics. Boys or girls bouncing on the mat. Your walk-in's pretty good too. That was a bad one. Don't judge me by it. I'll do it later. It's okay. Oh, it's coming back. So that's great. She's married to him. So she wanted to do the show and I met her and I just fell in love with her. She's such a.

perfect person to base a character on to be the star of a show. She has the sexiest life. I mean, she was literally engaged secretly for a while to the head coach. Yes. Greatest coach of all time. Himself has written a really fascinating book and she's really sexy. She has to be sexy. Like part of her job is that she has to

appealed to men in a really certain kind of way. Then it's the L.A. fucking Lakers. It's its own thing. It's an institution. And it's glitzy and glammy. Full of celebrities and tough decisions. And then I read her book. Then I interviewed her and her best friend, The Great Link.

Hondo Rambis, who is another producer on this, and her son Jordan, who's another producer who's also great. So anyway, it was like, this is a show I have to do. I grew up loving the Celtics. My dad was a huge fan. Who was his favorite player? He really liked Jojo White and Hondo.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So obviously Bird, Parrish, you know, the greats, but they were like deep cuts. I always loved basketball. And my dad always was like, no, this is a sport. Like they're so athletic. It's fast moving. When she approached me.

I checked with Ike and Dave. They were busy. They were on a deal at another studio. They couldn't do it. But I'd been dying to work with them. They were writers in the Mindy Project. They were on-set writers. And so I loved their energy as an actress. I loved working with them because they're the kind of rare... writer where they would give you a note, but they understand the performer's psyche. You've been on shows and this was at the office. There was the writers.

who would really piss off the actors because they would do like either line readings or they would come in with notes too quickly. And I have both sensitivities. I, as an actress, was like, let me have fucking two takes, please. You know, I'm not.

sitting here saying that i'm elizabeth moss or like one of the great actresses but i do have that side i'm like let me work it out minimally you want to do the best version of what you thought it was exactly and then if that's not what they want great let me try to give it to you but give me a chance to do the thing

that I think it should be. But then I also have the side as the showrunner where I'm like, hey, this is too slow. Someone needs to go in and tell them they need to speak quicker. This is a comedy. Or like, hey, this precision in this language, this line needs to be said as written because... it's not coming across the way you think it is what's nice about those guys and that experience which was already terrifying is that they knew how to give me notes and when to give me notes

that made me be better. And they really understood actors, which is why on this new show, I mean, they are beloved by everyone. Brenda Song, who's amazing, an old pro. Kate, all the guys are in the basketball. The background extras on the team, they all love Ike and Dave.

Ike is just that guy. It's like Monday and he's coming in to the grip. He's like, how was your daughter sweet 16? You know, he's annoyingly perfect. He's like the guy that is in school and you're like, oh, I bet he's like this. And I bet he's like this. And there's no way it's true. But then he is. Yeah. He knows encyclopedic knowledge about

Politics, history and movies. Well, I didn't know this about him until I was researching you today that he went on a crazy run on Jeopardy. He started on Celebrity Jeopardy, won that and then they brought him in. Did you know this, Monica? And they brought him into normal Jeopardy and he fucking mopped up. And then he was on Jimmy.

Kimmel's show had made a million dollars for a school for deaf children with his dad. This is sounding totally made up. He's AI. I know. And he's pretty easy on the eyes. Yeah, he is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, it kind of feels like this is not a love letter to your dad, but it is sort of. You made a show about basketball and then Mindy Project is sort of for your mom. Yeah. You were an OB in that. Is that intentional? I'm definitely inspired.

by elements of them i will say though when i talk to my dad about the shows he loves he respects this But these are not his kinds of shows. What are his shows? Does he like Blue Bloods and stuff? No, but that's a good guess. Okay. The typical dad show, I actually am liking those shows.

Bosch, Lincoln Lawyer. I'm really a shut in with four friends. So I love Ford versus Ferrari. I'm watching the dad shows. Well, you don't want to watch what you make. People will be bummed at me that I haven't seen certain comedies. And I'm like, I don't love.

I love watching comedy because I can just feel the math most of the time and I can't get lost in it. I relate to that and I've heard of it. But then I watch your wife's show. I watch every moment the weekend it came out. You know what it is that I don't respond to is things that are overrated. which is a lot, right? But when things are correctly rated, like nobody wants this. For me, I'm a single mom, 45, I live in LA. I want to see Kristen.

fall in love with Adam Brody and want to become a better person and go on hot dates and have hot kisses. Yeah. That kiss was the best kiss I think I've ever seen. You're talking about the one on the sidewalk. End of episode two. She gets in the over, yeah. They shot it right, held her head the right way. It was slow enough. Fuck.

Her sister, Justine, is so good. His brother. Everyone is so good in doing it right. I tend to be harder on comedies for sure. But the thing that my assistant makes fun of me is that she's like, you watch everything. And it's true.

I was watching the Fernanda Torres movie, I'm Still Here. She was nominated for Best Actress. And it could not be more different than anything that I work on, but she is the wife of someone, it's a period piece, whose husband has been disappeared by the government, right? And how do you... carry on after all that is watching that like weeping so I really

Don't have a social life. I really just watch TV and film and wear cute outfits. Us too, by the way. Don't let that character. Nobody wants to mislead you. We have two kids. You go to France and Stan Bradley Cooper's house. The year our kid was born. That was the last trip I took like that. And that was 2013. Well, we did go to France and stay at Bradley's house for a night.

But the whole family. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what you're referencing? Maybe that's true. Maybe. I guess. We do go on family vacations. Do you not go to Coachella? No, no, no. You're not doing live music? No, no, no. None of that's happening. Really? No. We leave this house to go to the airport and we'll go on a vacation.

But in general, in L.A., we don't ever leave this house. Aren't you going to like Jimmy Kimmel's compound and fishing? Yes, that's it. We go to the airport or we get in the bus and drive there. I'm trying to bust you on having a nice life. What is going on here? I'm flattered by it. But when you got hired on the... office. Did you know you were coming in as a performer? No, that is one of the four or five truly lucky things that's ever happened to me career wise. I came in as a writer. I.

would have done anything just to be in the Writers Guild, was prepared to have a life of that. And they just needed regular looking people. So the reason it was lucky was because I don't think I would have been cast 2004. sitcom, there's no way I'd have been on any actual show that wasn't like a mockumentary about an unglamorous place with normal people. Yeah, right. Real people. But with those rules in place, he could be like, hey, NBC can...

This woman being and they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, she looks real. Yes. Almost too real, though, because when I look back at that first season, I remember Mike Schur and BJ Paul Lieberstein like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is real. This is real. And then I wasn't thinking like, hey, you're a 24 year old single woman.

Like maybe put on a little makeup. You would still have makeup on and do your hair. Because I remember at that time it was like, yeah, what's cool in comedies? Like put me in an ugly shirt. I want my judge to think I'm cool. And guess what? Cool comedy guys who like that, they actually still like hot women.

Exactly. UCB was like that for a long time, too, where you had to sort of choose your camp. You had to be a boy, basically, and funny or a hot girl. I do think that's changed a ton. Sarah Silverman wore a hoodie and jeans, which works for...

when you're stunningly beautiful. Your beauty still comes through. You can't even hide it. Yeah, try as you might. I did that, though, for a movie, Let's Go to Prison. I'm like, yeah, I'm a prisoner. No hair, no makeup. And I was like, you're on film. You should probably draw a little mascara. You're just too vain. Yeah, no, I know. Well, it's hard to see yourself on film, regardless of what you look like. I mean, even Kristen, she's like, oh, I don't like that. She's perfect looking. And so.

For her to say that. Well, she'll find the thing. They cannot shoot my hands. I have the hands of a 90-year-old woman. She doesn't do that way about her. Surprisingly, you'd be shocked, actually. Because that wasn't the response. You were supposed to be like, I know it's absurd. Her hands are beautiful baby's hands.

I spent a lot of time zooming in on her hands when I worked for her. And I was like, we got to Photoshop this. Our friend Anna just scours the internet and then sends Kristen pictures with her hands circled. And also, if that's the one thing you got to. take it. But do you still fantasize about men in the way that you did when you were looking at the boys? I don't remember the last time I

had a crush. I don't have lust feelings. Now, maybe that's connected to if you've had to pump milk for a baby within the last six months, maybe you have to give yourself some time. One of your commercials, you were both talking about it and it was like, are you very menopause?

Paz will take this medication. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dax and Monica are telling me about this ad. That's how open I was listening to this podcast. I was like, I got to get the ads. I got to get this pill they're talking about. Oh, wow. No, but anyway, I'm at that age.

I just say, I think most women who have just had a baby experience quite a decline. I think your body is like, hey, we have a very specific mission right now. Not Kylie Jenner. But again, I'm twice the age she was when she had her kids. Yeah, age is a factor. But also I think.

fantasy is a factor because I fantasized so much growing up that it can replace doing the real thing for me. That's chilling. It's a good point. You know, if I listen to who's like one of the great interview, like Hugh Grant, have you guys ever heard him get interviewed? I find him to be incredibly charming. Talk show appearances, but I've never heard long form. He did, I think, smart lists. He was promoting a new horror movie.

And I thought that was an interesting choice. So I want to watch this and hear why he would do a horror movie. That seems fun. So I listened to it. Spartanus is like you guys were, it brings out a good side in him, but it was like his podcast. He was so funny. I was like, I know you haven't had this conversation.

before but why is every anecdote you're saying perfectly worded great analogies great callbacks to stories that you then call back later I was listening to that and I was like I have a crush on you Hugh Grant but I wasn't like Googling him to see if he was in between marriages. Okay. Yeah. Sure, sure. Not that he would be.

Interested, but I was satiated. You didn't go to the next zone. The next zone. How do I call my agent? Orchestrate some bump in. Go to the premiere to his indie horror movie. I do think culturally the English are better at being interviewed.

They have a tradition there of going on the show and being prepared. There's an expectation there that I think the bar is higher. Do you think that so many of the young actors, they were raised being like being in plays and doing Shakespeare doesn't make you.

effeminate. It's part of our tradition. We can learn Shakespeare and it doesn't make us pussies. Sorry to use that word in pejorative, but you can be a very masculine man and be in much ado about nothing. I feel like there's a lot of more options. Got a good point. Okay, so when you started acting and throughout the course of The Office,

You ended up being in tons of movies. There had to be a point, I'm imagining, where you could have at least considered, do I want to continue writing or do I just want to act? Did you ever have those thoughts? There was a little zone I had where I'd have like four lines in a Seth Rogen movie. I was Paul Rudd's ex and something. And it never felt like, oh, I could cobble together a job this way. But it was really glamorous. What about Post Mindy, though, when you do Ocean's 8?

Those experiences were really fun, doing Oceans and doing Wrinkle in Time. It really crystallized to me that I am probably... not going to be really good in something unless I write it. There's something about my cadences or what I think I'm good at.

that I could probably showcase better if I just wrote it myself, which is not to say that I don't think I was fine in A Wrinkle in Time. The movie is not about my acting. I love doing this. I love being inside out and I love being cast in things. And we all have the dream of like... Wes Anderson needs you to be a bellhop and something like that. Yeah, of course. I'd love to go do that, but I don't think I'll ever be able to make a living unless I'm maybe writing it myself or another show.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I'm Indra Varma, and in the latest season of The Spy Who, we open the file on the spies who invaded suburbia. The illegals weren't just blending in. They were the embodiment of the American dream. Nine to five jobs, dropping the kids off at soccer practice, and just the right amount of charm to slide into the orbits of the powerful. But behind closed doors, they were Russian operatives, meticulously crafting coded messages and feeding mosques.

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You know, it's so funny. We were talking about those roles that I did from 2004. It was exciting. I was like, oh, I'm going to go be on Curb and play like Richard Lewis's assistant. Oh, I'm going to go be in Forty Old Virgin and I'll be Natalie Portman's other friend that's not Greta Gerwig and we're going to do whatever. But what was interesting about that, and I'm so curious about you guys, is I was never a part.

of a comedy click and I was really jealous and I had a chip on my shoulder about it because in that aughts time you were in a clicker you weren't I was on the office so maybe people were like well she's there and maybe you could argue that

that was a click, but the writing staff was very competitive with each other. We all had our own private ambitions, our own stuff we wanted to do. We wanted to write the best script, kill the table read, have Steve Carell think we were the funniest writer. We were all friends also and helping each other, but we were like,

Like, when are we going to get a show? And I was jealous of Judd and Seth and Jason. And then there was Amy and Tina and Will doing the ice skating movie. The Danny McBride camp. Danny McBride camp a little bit later. I remember then that there was the Fempire. It was literally a club.

clique of female writers that were successful. And I was like Diablo and Liz Merrill. And so I felt like the entire odds was me coming up on a show that I loved, but being like, why can't I be in a clique? Yes. I remember I'm just talking. Sorry. No, yeah, yeah, no. This is what we do. I relate to it deeply. You do? Because I was like, I'm not in the Judd click.

I'm not in Will Ferrell's click. I'm not in Vince Vaughn or Owen's click. That click. Wedding Crashers. Yes. And even Cooper was in that. He's really funny in that movie. He is. He is. But I did have the Groundlings clicked. And all those guys have boom.

Chicago or I.O. I understand feeling like, oh, they're all from this thing. It really fueled me in a good and bad way where I was like, I don't have Lorne. I don't have Judd. I don't have any of these people who are going to do something for me. I got to do it myself. I'm going to show them. I had that energy, but also clicks exist because people are friends. They go out to dinner and they ask each other about their lives.

You kind of earn those clicks. No one knocks on your door and says, hey, you want to be in the Judd clip? Yeah. And they're not just friends because they're trying to get ahead in their career. I'm such an introvert and so socially anxious that I remember being on the set for 40 Old Virgin and there's the Four Rose of Video Village.

Paul and Seth and Elizabeth Banks was going to work that day and Leslie Mann was there. And they were all sitting at the front by the monitors, joking around, talking and everything. And I was sitting in the back row and it became so awkward because I didn't... feel like I knew how to jump in. And I also knew because I'd been in the office.

That feeling when someone's trying to be part of it. And I didn't want to do that. Desperation. Desperation. I'm like, I'm feeling desperate. So whatever I say is going to sound like Paul and Banks, like whatever. And so I just went back to my trailer. I remember thinking.

I hope, hope, hope that they don't think that I was being cold. Standoffish. Standoffish. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, the truth is they weren't thinking about me. I was a day player on the Fort Yale Virgin. But I remember being like, what a missed opportunity. If I was better socially, I could have been smiling. And then when they turned to me, been like, I almost wanted to go to Maui, you know, their Hawaiian vacation conversation.

Because people do that really successfully that are just normal and nice. And you're like, yeah, come join the convo. But then you get into this situation. You end up getting mad at yourself that you're not a certain type of person. But that certain type of person also wouldn't have gotten you there in the first place. If you were some crazy social.

butterfly I don't know that you spend the time in your room writing I don't know that you bring notebooks to the movie theater when you're 15 and start writing down dialogue there's a lot of things you probably don't do

If you had that skill set. So it's like you can only be so regretful that you weren't that way. Loneliness is a choice, I think. And as I'm getting older, what I'm noticing, I have a friend, Parisa, who said this to me. She was like, oh, yeah, we got to get dinner next month. And I'm always like, I'm tired.

I don't wanna do whatever. And she's like, you can't be one of those old people that has no friends except their spouse. You just wanna watch your Netflix. So you kinda just have to make dinner plans and go. I have three kids, which is a lot for an unmarried.

A one year old, a four year old and a seven year old. Yeah. Ten months, four and seven. And I remember thinking recently, did I have three kids? So I have three friends like Michael Scott, by the way, because mine are a little older. They're 10 and 11. Yeah. And they're just straight up friends. They're friends. Yeah. I took my 11 year old.

Lisbon last year to see Taylor Swift. One of the best trips I've ever had with a woman in my life. What you just described is literally what I'm longing for. I cannot wait till my daughter's just a little bit older. I was just in Paris. I just can't wait to take her. Oh, how fun.

with them because they have a different point of view about a political thing or a world event that is so fun seeing their little brain no actually I'm different than you I'm gonna show you I'm like oh this is great but I agree that they can't replace friendships or that's the thing they talk about in therapy like my mom only has me I'm her friend but she's my mom they can but they'll leave

That's the problem. They'll leave. They go to college. They go do their thing. My new resolution is I have to start watering and adding fertilizer to my adult friendships. It's a hack to just plan it way out. Right now, you should be making plans for March. March 19th.

Because right now you're like, I can't do anything in the next three weeks. Yes. But you think for some reason on March 20th, you'll be available. I think that's how you hack our disposition. Schedule it for way far out because you'll say yes and you'll put it in a calendar.

then you'll just have to go because you do everything that's in your calendar so i'll just be like monica and i are going to dunsmore end of march i yes oh my god yes her phone just exploded also dunsmore great place haven't been but it was proud of the reference. Yeah. It is cool. It's great. Listen, you guys both love fashion.

You love rom-coms. I love fashion. I love fashion. Love rom-coms. Love it all. And then another thing in common that I obviously want to talk to you about is the kids because I have frozen my eggs. Good for you. I did it on air. It was a show. Yeah, we did a show. It did not go great for me. I got two mature eggs the first time and then I did it again and I got seven. So I have nine, which is amazing. But it is what it is. And when the fires happened, I was like, are my eggs?

gone because they were in Pasadena. And then I thought, how would I feel if they were gone? I'm not a person that knows I'm definitely having kids. Were you like, I'm definitely going to be a mom in this life? Yeah, you know, I felt when I was a kid, I'm definitely getting married because I love romantic love and I love men and romance and I'm definitely going to have children. And then when I got into my 20s.

And I had a couple pretty unfulfilling relationships. And then as I was in my 30s, I was like, I don't know that me getting married and honestly divorces and seeing some of that happening. They had an amazing marriage.

And particularly when my mom got sick and the way my dad took care of her. Both of our parents died in the same year, by the way. Oh, really? Yeah, 2012. 2012. What my dad did for my mom in that final year, I was like, wow, what a great guy, but what a great marriage. But anyway, I knew that I wanted children. But I was old enough at that point.

and had enough sort of disposable income and had seen so many acrimonious divorces. I hope this doesn't sound bad and this is not going to be relatable to a lot of listeners, but a person would have built up their career and their nest egg and then they have a divorce and half of their money's done. I know. That should happen. in most cases and California law is a reason to protect families and I get it but I was like damn I don't want that exactly not that it's all about the money

And so this romantic part of me that was like, you're going to find your Darcy was like, well, what if Darcy takes all my money and then takes off my money? And then I have these fantasies because I'm insane. Or I'm like.

He's going to take half my money and his bitch wife. They'll get a fucking Fifth Avenue apartment. He'll go buy all the stuff you didn't let yourself buy. Yeah, and then with my office residuals from playing Kelly, they're going to be sending their kids to Dalton in the Upper West Side or whatever while I'm... childless because I have revenge fantasies not healthy at all. I was like, I don't want my money to go to this hypothetical ex and his new family. I also was like, I want to have

Christmas and Thanksgiving with my children every year because I'm a writer and also insane. These fantasies where I'm like, so I would be then alone. where my children were going to this other person's house. Do you think because you had such an active fantasy about what it was all going to be that men have had a hard time living up to what you were fantasizing about?

Yes. Having a guy that is very funny, independently wealthy, busy, 6'2". Oh my God, these are all mine. Do you know what I mean? Jewish. No, it's just good body, but not too good. Yeah. Has a hairy chest, but not too hairy. Not a perfect face. You don't want it cookie cutter. It needs to have some character to it. Yeah, chip tooth. Oh.

Your standards are high, as they should be. Yeah. Smart and funny with a job in health insurance, which, by the way, in L.A. is actually pretty hard. You know what's weird? I know the version of that that's a single woman. in excess. I agree. And like a hot woman. I know so many writers on all my shows that are like a 29 year old.

educated, funny. They were the first to, when the fires happened, they're like, let's go make sandwiches. I'll add, this will sound like pandering, but I believe it. I do think as a man becomes more successful and wealthy. His options widen. And I think for a woman, they narrow the pool of men you guys have to choose from that are not going to be threatened by your job and your wealth and your status and your attention is a very small pool. I feel fucking heart.

broken for half the females we interviewed. We were watching the Paris Hilton documentary and I'm like, this fucking guy ruins her show and gets too drunk. It makes a scene because he's so jealous. Everyone wants her attention. And it's like, what's that girl to do? Who the fuck is she going to meet? And so what was a real gift to me was the ability to really enjoy my autonomy. I know it might surprise people, but I...

love seeing my friends' marriages at work. I love my married couples. I love hanging out with my friends who are married couples, but I love my life so much. I am so invested in what's going on with my children, but also... I have this sort of extra bandwidth

to have these several shows on the air and to be able to do all the editing and managerial and going to sets and traveling for all that, still take care of my three children. I don't know that it's because, but I think it's helped because I'm not. having to care for an adult and ask about

Their day and my in-laws. Also compromise on decisions. I don't have to compromise at all. I don't have to run anything by anyone. There's never a miscommunication with the nanny because I said bedtime was this time, but actually it's this. Small things too. My friends are saints planning the... birthday gifts.

for your brother-in-law's wife. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah. I just finished a day of work. I'm not going on fucking Shopbop and buying Lindsay a sweatsuit that she likes. I can't be doing that. And so it might change. I'm really open to it. I have a famous friend. She'll remain anonymous. But her famous husband said, I need a wife. They had kids and they were both working. And she's like, yeah, I need a wife, too. Yeah, we both need a fucking wife.

Your relationship with Kristen is so rare because you both are so successful and you have really fulfilling careers, but you make it work. Yeah. But again, I think I was designed to. have this in that my mother was a gangster she was a fucking super ambitious badass and we had to get with the program and i only was attracted to people like that

I have to have a pretty good sense that you'll choose something over me to be interested. That's really rare in men. Is that a generalization? That's correct. No, I think it is. I think most men, by no fault of their own, they grew up in a married house where mom didn't go to work. That was. what was modeled. And so for me, that wasn't modeled. The notion that someone would not

Leave the house and go gather information and bring it back and share it with us. Seems crazy to me. But we've had a lot of male guests. Most men who are married to gangsters, their moms were gangsters. Your son's in good shape. Yes. I hope so. He'll be able to hand.

handle a Mindy. And want it. I think that's the difference. Meanwhile, I want him to marry like a demure woman who just is like pliable. Yes. I guess with the program. Yeah, because they need to come over. Come to your house for Christmas. Yeah, exactly. But I think it's really incredible. The idea of doing it by myself really scares me. So I love seeing it. It scared me for the longest time. And then...

It was Reese Witherspoon. I was getting ready to shoot a movie and it got delayed for some reason. And I was like, oh, well, I'm going to just wait. And she was like, do this. do not wait until it's too late. And no woman wants to tell another woman TikTok. Right. It's not feminist. It's kind of a bummer. Sure. But it's the truth. It's the truth. We were in her trailer in a field in New Zealand. She's like, if you want this, you have to do it now. Otherwise.

And she listed some people that I knew of, but not known personally, some very famous women who waited and then it was too late. It's only possible because I waited till I was 37 to have my daughter because I had disposable income. I have my nanny, I have my dad who helps. Does your dad live with you?

No, but he lives in West Hollywood. You wrote the sweetest little post about him. Maybe it was for Father's Day where he comes and takes care of the kids or, you know, spins in the chair with them. Every single one of my children, he has picked up, taken them for like a 45 minute walk.

every single morning for like the first year of their life. This is a guy who grew up in Chennai. Yeah. In like the 50s. And so he came here and he's just gotten on board with everything. He's gotten on board with my lifestyle. He's gotten on board with three children, no husband. my mom passed away she was the motor of our family she was the superstar of our family she was the one that everyone could individually relate to the most and she was gone and he's like okay I gotta

be that. I got to not be judgmental about everything in her life when he definitely could have been. He met my stepmom, who is amazing. My stepmom is so beloved by my children. Her name is Lynn, born and raised in Santa Monica, a beautiful

nice Jewish lady who met my dad at their apartment complex. Amazing. It was a meet cute at the apartment complex. They met two years later, got married in my backyard. So he's gone through so much stuff. Make a lot of generalizations about a man of a certain generation. and what they're willing to do. And I even make fun of them on my shows about not being flexible. And he has been in complete defiance of those things. That's beautiful.

While still being a traditional Indian guy with like an Indian accent. I feel lucky to have him. Have you, I'll just say my experience. So my dad died in 2012. I was going home nonstop to do it all. I think you did the same thing. Yeah. He was a dependent the last several years of his life. It was taxing and we were about to have a child. And when he first died, my truest feeling was relief. Did you mean a financial dependent? Yeah. And also emotional. Yeah.

dynamic of if he called, I knew it was to get another thing. It just it was a hard thing to navigate. And so when he died initially, I just kind of felt relief. I don't have all the stuff I normally deal with. And I'm already busy. I was shooting on Parenthood, just directed a movie that came out. And then about three months later, I have the wave of like, oh boy, he's gone. And then obviously throughout the last 11 years of having kids, I go, oh my.

God, would he have loved these girls? I'm like heartbroken. He didn't get to meet these little girls. He would have been so in love with them. And it's weird. My missing of him is only increased. It's taken the opposite trajectory. I would have thought. It's remarkable how two things. It doesn't totally get easier when you love someone, but it's also surprised me how my relationship with my mom has continued in some ways. What you said about the last years of your...

dad's life the one thing that tv and film does i think that is such an injustice is people are not at their best when they're dying no they're at their worst they're scared depressed but in tv and film you see things like little women and everyone's angelic and the best they've ever

ever been before they die. And it is a lie. My mother was my best friend and she was a doctor and she was as stoic as it comes, but she was scared. And from the time she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer to the time she died was eight months and she knew it was going to happen. And she knew exactly the trajectory of it because she was a doctor. And she was so frightened and negative. We were all relieved because she wasn't in pain.

That feeling actually made me feel so much guilt. You've seen it get really, really ugly. And my dad's saying like diagnosis to death four months. There's no treatment for small cell carcinoma. It's not going to happen. But that whole four months, you're like, how ugly will it get?

Well, I have to decide at some point. He went out relatively peacefully. I'm relieved about that. My mom, too. It was better that my mom went in eight months than in four years. My memories stopped being about the last couple of years and my memories and my dreams. He'd be. hunger in them.

I was able to re-remember the stuff that came before the illness. That was a challenge for me. I really had to do that because a lot of times I would try not to think about her because it would make me feel too sad. And I was like, well, she wouldn't want that. The thing with the kids.

though there's so much of course that's so triggering where you're like oh my god my mom would have loved this oh my god now i understand why my mom did this and to not be able to call her and be like when i was 12 and such a pain in the ass and you were just trying your best and I was being difficult about that. I wish I could just call her and be like, I'm so sorry.

As parents, though, you don't need that. Yeah, it's true. You don't need your kids who are being assholes to in 30 years call you and be like, remember when I did that? I'm sorry. I don't know. I'm pretty petty. I think I would enjoy it. Thank you. Finally. That was really hard. I've been waiting. I mean, yes and no. It's nice, but you don't need it. Do you have a thing, Dex, with your daughters? My daughter, she's seven now, and she says stuff that's just...

chilling to me, where it's so soulful and I wish I could help her. We're transitioning from Legos into bed and the transitions are hard for her. She wants to keep everything going. My son just can move on. Hey, let's do that. He'll ask once. I'm like, no, and he'll be fine. But my daughter, every night, negotiate. She says to me, when can I be in charge?

and what I want to do. And I was literally just like, I am so sorry. It's not going to be for a long, long time for seven. But I know that feeling. She always says that she hates eating. And she's like, why do we have to do this three times a day?

And I love eating and I just like look forward to my meals, but I wouldn't want to eat the kid's food, but she can't eat spicy food or interesting food, but it's so repetitive and boring and you have no autonomy. And I just sit there and I'm like, I wish I could just let you be Drew Barrymore.

Let's go to the club. Let's go do it. You want to drive? Let's go. I love those moments because, of course, I relate so much. I'm like, oh, me too. I just wanted to, like, when can I call the shots? I don't agree with anything that's happening around me.

I just subject to it. And so I go, oh, I love it. It's fucking maddening. Both workers are so stubborn, but I have so much gratitude. They're stubborn. Everyone I know and like and respect and has done the things I've wanted to do. Stubbornness is, I think. essential ingredient. And I just got to let it happen. Yeah. I didn't live in fantasies about girls. As you know, at 12, that fantasy came true.

Or 13. But I had such rich fantasies about being rich, about being famous. Wealth was something that was so coveted and it was going to feel a certain way. Being accepted by famous people was going to feel a certain way. I relate to that, too. They're a little underwhelming when they.

happen, or at least they didn't fill the thing. But I have got to say, people think I'm baby shaming when I say this, but boy, did that thing for me 10x what I was expecting. Has that been your experience? The answer is yes. I was never a kid person. Are you guys naturally kid people? Do you gravitate towards children?

Children, yes. But no, I am not someone who sees a baby at a restaurant and is like, oh my God, my ovaries are exploding. I've never had that. And neither did I. None of them have ever exploded. Well, except for Delta. Delta's the only, their kid. And Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, obviously. But their kid, when I first came in, I started nannying for them. That's how I started here is their second kid. And I babysat a lot. That's how I made money. But.

That is the first kid that I thought, I understand what people are talking about, where they're just drawn. It doesn't really matter if they're mean to you. You still love them. That is so nice that you were a daughter. It's a very special relationship. I feel very grateful for it. Yeah, she's going to name her daughter Monica. She's already declared. She's my soulmate. But those can be powerful.

to put him on blast when I was doing the movie Zathura and he directed it I was around his family a lot and his daughter Madeline we would go trick-or-treating and she would ride on my shoulders the whole time like we just were in love that made me go like oh my

must have a Madeline before I die. I got to have this little girl on my shoulders. I never had that dynamic. I also babysat for money when I lived in Brooklyn, right around when I was doing Mountain Ben. I liked children and it was a good way to make money, but I didn't have that feeling. And then with my kids, it really made me understand my mother because my mother literally an OBGYN, but not a kid person, but was obsessed with us. And I was like,

I get it. It unlocked a love of children. I now love children. Like, all I want to do is when you or Kristen post photos, I'm like, I want that emoji to be moved. I want to see their pretty little face. When I see babies, I do run over. I'm like, who's this new person that just got to planet Earth?

What's going on with you? And it's so sweet. And I didn't think that about myself, but I'm surprised how much the same person I am before too. Still competitive, still weird pettiness, still chips on my shoulders and all that. That did not go away. I just. love and want to protect children. When I see movies that have children in them, I now am more affected by them. Where's that Dev Patel movie, Lion? Did you see that? Oh, I didn't see that. I mean, just anything about children.

on their own or in peril or anything like that I can't take it but that relationship I have with these kids has been so unbelievably profound. And to be able to have a family that I made myself and there's just the four of us in our family staring at each other. We go to our little vacations. We're going to Montana and I'm wading in the river with them. You're like, I did it. You did it. We all have this.

male or female where they don't feel complete unless they have a partner. And I'm not judgmental about that because I felt like I used to be that way. Something happened where I don't need it, but I'm open to it. JLo has been in so many relationships in the time that I've been single. I don't know her at all, but I've been like, she's a romantic.

Oh, yeah. She's a love addict, she says. When she got back together at Ben, she was like, we must do a documentary about it. It fuels her. Let's revisit when your daughter's two, maybe. We'll revisit. We'll revisit. Let's not get a permanent. Let's not get a tattoo.

My tattoo. OK, well, we talked about Running Point. I just want to say I watched it. First of all, as I said, I got so excited in the credits because Mike Weaver, I couldn't love more. I love that you're writing it with Ike and Dave. I love Jeannie Buss. I love the story. Kate's an ex. girlfriends, so that's complicated. We're ex-lovers.

Was this a serious long-term relationship? No, it was a summer romance right before I met Kristen. Hot. Three months, four months. But it left a mark. You really remember that as a big relationship. Were you like going to the Halloween party? Were you part of that? I was.

I was friends with her brother, Oliver. I'm trying to think of the order of how you know what it was. She was playing poker when she was still married at Oliver's house. And I was there one night and I put on the show of my life for her. Who wouldn't? She's a very appealing woman. Yeah.

And I think at the time I was probably 30 and she was 25. Best performance ever. And I knew, oh, she kind of likes me. She's married, but she likes who I am. And then, yeah, I got invited to a Halloween party. And then. A couple of years later, a year later or something, she was divorced. I was single for the first time in eight and a half years. And.

We went to a dinner at a restaurant with friends and then we had a romance. She's been on and we've discussed it publicly. Yeah, it's not like a secret. I love a sexy summer pass with Kate Hudson. Yeah, there was a lot of travel. I got to meet Kurt and Goldie. It was very exciting. who was after her? Ashley Olsen. What? I know. And then Kristen. Look at this record.

Well, Ashley Olsen is so cool, too, because she's so elusive. Exactly. I'm obsessed with fashion wise. Are you obsessed with her? Because Monica is obsessed with the row. I'm obsessed with the row. I think because they're so out of. Culture, I actually haven't been able to become obsessed with them because I know so little about them. That's why, though. But the row is expensive for me, and I'm rich. I know. I know. I know.

I look at the row and it's like a sitcom. I'm like, is there an extra zero on that? I know. Is this someone's telephone number? And then you find people that you deem yourself to be more rich than who are wearing. the row that's you and me you are definitely more rich than me but i don't have three children and you're head to toe in the row i'm often head to row now i'm like i know you guys are doing well what if she's like old indian money she doesn't have old

Indian money. She has nouveau rich podcast money. I'm still waiting for that windfall of the old Indian money to appear. He's super talented. Trevor Noah, on the news, they were like, he just purchased a house for $28 million in Brentwood or something. This was three years ago. I think it said he's like...

one of four homes. And I was like, damn Daily Show money. And then they're like, no, no, no. It's a stand up. These stand ups are making tens of millions of dollars. They earn it. They do. They do. They live on the road. Now, I'll say this. The thing I should have done. if I wasn't a comedy writer is...

finance. I love making money. I love knowing about people's money. I love the gilded age in New York. The patrician class. I think it's great. I think everyone on the front of their house should say how they bought it. If it was through their money, their wives, they inherited it. I love that. Otherwise, it's too much. Like Trevor Noah, I'm going to tell him this if I see him this Oscar season at a party. He should write...

Stand-up tour furnished by Daily Show money. 62 dates. 10,000 seats of venue. I think when you don't have family money and you aren't from old money. I mean, literally my bio and my Instagram is new money. I think it's fascinating. No, me too. We have to talk about this because I wonder if this is an Indian thing, maybe a little bit, because there's a big backlash in America against people with money.

Oh, yeah. There's like almost going to be an agrarian revolution. Everyone hates billionaires right now. They're like, you're not relatable if you're rich. And I thought. the goal was to become one of these people. I grew up hearing be successful. That means that. Yeah, we have a different playbook, I think. I think.

So I'm not on board with hating. I mean, look, I don't like everything all these billionaires are doing. Well, billionaires are a different thing. And none of them are paying taxes. They sort of are exempt from the daily indignities the rest of us have to do, which is not fair. It's made them all weird, to be fair.

Yes, it's made them all weird. In my 20s and 30s, you would hear, did you know Olivia Munn invested in Uber in the first round? And now she has $27 billion. And you're like, why isn't anyone inviting me? And then the four things that I do invest in make famous.

Zero. I'd like to think that I'm only obsessed with money and how people get it because I think it would be so nice to have so much with my children that I could just go teach. I'd love to go teach TV writing or teach Latin or one of these other things that's interesting to me. I could travel. I'm obsessed with it, too. And I admit all the time I'm a very greedy pig.

Okay, well, I want to make sure we talked about Running Point enough. As we discussed, I saw it. It's great. I blew through three of them, intending to only watch one. That's really nice. And I love everyone in it. Justin Theroux is very funny in it. And a cool guy. He's so handsome. He is a... Great looking guy. Great body. Oh, beautiful. But I think he's comparably funny to his looks. And smart.

I'm friends with him. Okay, I don't know him really. So I gave birth on Sunday and the show started shooting on Monday. Okay, so you missed the table read. I came a week later and I met him on set and I was watching dailies, obviously, but we had almost like a parasocial relationship.

because I'd seen all the dailies. And I obviously know of him and the way that you guys talk about him and Spartless guys talks about him and everything. But I've only had a couple short conversations with him. But he's very funny. He's very, very funny. And he's very well read. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah.

He is tangentially related to Henry David Thoreau. Really? He comes from good stock. He's the opposite of what? He's not new money. No. And Kate's great. We love seeing her do this. You were already obsessed with her. Yeah, she's good at portraying anger in a way that it's still sort of palatable. Networks don't like when women scream at other people, especially their employees. They're just like, well, nobody wants to see that. And yet she can do it.

In a way where you're like, let that billionaire get what you want. Yeah. It's funny because I worked on two shows with more. unknown casts i'd done college girls which has like amazing cast but were relatively unknown and then never have i ever where we really were trying to find people and it was kind of fun to do this show where

She was just like a pro. A pro, yeah. And Justin and Jay and Max Greenfield, everyone had just... done it yes and every show is challenging for different reasons but it was great to work with the median age was like 38 or higher that was fun i hadn't done that in a while yeah they know not to block anyone's light they know where to find the camera they actually can

show up and pretty much give you what you want pretty darn quickly. Yeah. And she's just old school. She's probably had to see some really bleak shit as an actress coming up at the time she came up just to. Pro. Yeah. She's not getting a sense of identity herself from her workplace. Yes. She's just like, I know who I am. That's her job. She's good at it. And Brenda Song is such a pro too. I mean, she was a child actor who came in and super funny. She's so great.

Ike's dad is in it, which delights me because he was so good in jury duty. And I'm like, this guy, I can't believe he was a judge. He was born to ask. I'll tell you what's funny about Ike's dad being in it is because we really wanted him to come play this part. He's the family.

lawyer, which is great, of an old school, multi-generational. Was he a judge or a lawyer in real life? In real life, he was a lawyer. He played a judge on jury duty. And now he's playing a lawyer. But he'd been on jury duty, which was a very hot show. I loved it. Oh, us too. And he was very good on it. I think he was one of the best parts of the show. So for this one, we were like...

You know, it'd be great, like, as if your dad can play this part. But my knowledge of him is like the guy I used to have Thanksgiving with before I had children. And then we heard through casting that his agent's like, they have a counter. And I was like, what? He's a lawyer. Good for him.

Well, Mindy, we waited a long time and I'm so happy. I hope it lived up. This is so fun, you guys. We love you. We do so much. This is really nice. I loved being here. I'm really such fans. I love what you get out of the people you talk to. It's really. Incredible. I know you've done 800 episodes. You might be 800. No.

We're past that. Past that. It's 864. 864. Those are good numbers. They're all even. They're all divisible by two. Yeah, we like that. 432. That's nice. Does that sound good? 432. Well, you're never social, so I'll never see you out. in public, so I guess I'm glad that I got this. Have me on again. We'll have to have you on for our dates.

Truly an honor. Everyone check out Running Point. I only had to watch one and I watched three. I love it. Oh, the other thing, your mom's name is Swati. Yeah. So we just learned this term. People in England say Swati for nerd. It means like you're a Swati. Yes. Oh, that's so funny.

an Indian English woman who explained. No, I didn't know that. It means you really sweat. You work hard. That describes me. Exactly. Swatty to the core. Swatty through and through. You bleed swatty. I do. There you go. All right. Well, we love you. Thank you for coming and come back so we can see you again. Thanks for having me, guys. Fun. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts.

We've got a bit of a role reversal happening. Let me remove my spectacles. Let me put my spectacles on. Oh, okay. Because you said we have a role reversal. We do have a role reversal. Usually you're dressed quite warm and I'm dressed in a chilly, like... No, you're dressed very warm and I'm dressed very scantily. Yeah, you're in a jacket, which is weird because it's hot out. It's a hoodie.

I don't know if I'm going to say it's a jacket. Oh, you think that's they're different? That's really, really piecing. You don't think a sweatshirt and a jacket are different? I think a sweatshirt and a jacket are different, but I think a hoodie is a jacket. Is a jacket. Because it has a zipper? Yeah. So if something has a zipper, you upgrade it to jacket status. Jacket or coat. If your Uncle Jack climbed up on the roof of the house and the ladder fell over, would you help your Uncle Jack off?

Oh my God. Why did you say that? Have you ever heard that one? No. There was a lot of gold in the hallways of Spring Mills Elementary. That's that's from way back in 83, I think. Wow. Yeah. That got me good. I thought it was going to be a riddle about a zipper. Yeah, it's just Jack. Somehow Jack got in my vocab. Jacket. Jacket, correct. That's why. Fun update from Armcherries. It turns out there's a lot of Armcherries that are very, very in the know when it comes to Eames chairs.

OK, great. That doesn't surprise me. People are that it's like if you're into architecture, you're probably in the Eames chairs. Yeah. So now I do want to correct one person like hate to disappoint you. This doesn't disappoint me. It's worse. OK, so Dax isn't. is an acronym. For the thing Bill Gates made? For the chair. For the Eames chair. Okay. So I can tell you what it stands for if you're interested. Yep. Okay. So it's a... An abbreviation or an acronym for Dining, D, Armchair, A, on X base.

Oh, Dining Armchair on X Bays. Great. But as we talked about DAX from the book, The Adventures was also an acronym. Initials. Right. So that's great. I think that's even better. Sure. It doesn't take away. I don't think it took away from the sim at all. I think it made it more simmy. Sure. I think we should. Do you want to tell people what happened to us? When? Friday. The robbery. Oh, yes. Yeah, I guess we should. We had a huge event happen to us. Yes. We recorded on Thursday.

And then I went out to eat with some friends that were in town. Oh, Ken Goldberg, previous guest. Ding, ding, ding. Sim. Roboticist in this lovely family. So we went out to Mess Hall. met this great arm cherry. I don't know if I've told you about this arm cherry. There's an arm cherry and I see him on Instagram too. He has autism and he left a note for me at

the restaurant knowing I go there sometimes. Oh, wow. So I got this beautiful note for him and then I wrote him a note back. And then I actually met him that night because he happened to be there. So come home, whatever, no big deal. That's Thursday night, Friday.

Previous guest Seth Green comes over with his beautiful daughter and wife. So many previous guests. It was a weekend of previous guests. And we're all in the yard playing with the baby. The baby's way too cute. I want you to meet her so bad. She's so talkative and she's not even three. And she was hugging me and she said, give you a big hug. She goes, I love him. I love you. I love him. I was melting.

I was a puddle for like three hours playing with this little girl. Oh my God. The red hair, little Seth. Red hair, green eyes. Red hair cares. Fuck, I don't know. Okay, anyways, Claire got thirsty. We were in the yard, so I was like, oh, I'll just run into the studio and grab some water out of the fridge. Go to grab some water out of the fridge. And I'm like, huh. Rob took all of the cameras out of the studio.

this weekend he's like no he's moonlighting on another job and he's just he's embezzling basically he's just taking the equipment i've bought and he's got side projects and a side hustle he bought with your money i mean that still means i bought well Okay, so. Potato, patata. Also, I need to say earlier in the day, this is relevant. It's very relevant, actually.

I took a long bike ride. I pull him into my driveway. Carly's pulling out. She's got the window down. She's like, do you always get away? And I'm like, what? And then I slowly start turning around on my bicycle. And then I'm like going like half a mile an hour while I'm trying to talk to her. Right.

And I have the clip-on bike shoes in, which I'm still an amateur at. Right. And so I have this moment where I'm about to fall over, but I can't pull my foot off the pedal to stop. So I just fell over like a sheet of plywood. I just fell. It was the stupidest fall of my life. Just imagine being on a bike and letting yourself go completely 90 degrees. Did it hurt? No, it wasn't nearly as bad as a skating accident on my birthday.

Oh, yeah. OK. Thumbs up. Yeah. Yeah. So I broke my phone when I hit the ground. I guess I hit hard enough that between my thigh and the cobblestone, I broke my phone. Right. So. I'm like, oh. Yeah, that sucks. But I got to add, I'm driving to the mall, which I don't normally do. It's like it's going to be a three-hour ordeal, right?

And I can't get my phone to turn on. I've tried every protocol. I've held all the buttons for all these different ways. And I'm just like praying that I can get a new phone and they can transfer everything at the Genius Bar. And I get there. And of course, the woman turns my phone on. It turns right on. Oh.

Yeah. Oh, my. I told her I compare it to when you've been sick for like two weeks. You finally decide to go to the doctor and in the exam room, you feel wonderful. It's over right now that I'm at the doctor. Yeah. So that was happening. Now cut back to in here, realizing none of the cameras are here.

I can't call Rob because my phone is broken and it's transferring for nine hours. So then I have Carly call Rob. I say to Rob, let's act it out, Rob. Hey, what's going on? Not much. What's going on? Hey, did you take all the cameras out of the studio? Nope. You don't have the cameras. No, definitely not. Okay, well, we were robbed. Oh, what else did they take?

I don't really know. I just discovered all. So whatever. Yeah. That's that conversation. Rob. And then I asked Rob, will you come take stock? I don't know what all gear is in Rob's zone. Yeah. So Rob comes over. Now, now this is what sucks. Now I'm really kind of distracted for the rest of my play date with Seth's daughter, which is a bummer because all of them, right? I want to.

I want to be right in the thick of it. You want to be present. But I'm like, fuck, when did this happen? Yes. Also, some weird thing happened where when I came home on Thursday night from the dinner with Ken Goldberg, I noticed that my trailer door was open, which I didn't understand. That was like, that was just, you know, you notice little things.

Yep. Shut that. And then I was like, OK, well, I well, it happened between Thursday when we recorded and now. OK, so I'm going to presume I'm going to start with when it starts getting dark last night. So a half hour after we went to go to dinner. Two dudes. You have cameras basically. I have cameras everywhere. You're able to now see. Yes. Now that's its own.

That takes a long time. What camera am I looking at? I don't know where they came at on on the property. Yeah. So I do waste a good hour looking at footage from I don't see anything. But then I see. that they have jumped over the pedestrian gate. They're in full masks.

And then they went up into my gym. I'm watching this now on all the cameras. They go into Kristen's office. They come out. They go up into the attic. They go down into the studio. They take all the cameras. They head out. It's 10 minutes. That's it. Start to finish. And the very frustrating thing is on camera, I see them. They exit the house with all this gear and they have two lime scooters parked against the wall. That's so weird to me.

Full masks. Okay. Not like fucking COVID masks. I'm talking full masks. Yeah. One of our neighbors pulls in. headlights bright on these two guys with full mask, holding a bunch of bulls stolen cameras, loading it on a bird scooter and they just cruise by and they don't call anybody.

So I was a little bit like, oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, if I roll in, I see I'm out of the car. It's on. Oh. Oh, anyways, I don't recommend that to whoever that was. But I would call the police. I wouldn't have got out of the car.

I would have called the police and I would have followed them on the fucking scooters in a car. They can't outrun you. I would have stayed with them while I was on the phone with 911. They had cameras, I think, is what they had. Lots of expensive cameras. You have to be careful in these situations. The thing that I find. rough about that again i was like you can you can afford to replace the cameras it sucks they're expensive it really sucks it is quite an expensive ordeal

You can't report it to your insurance or my insurance will go up over time. That doesn't justify, you know, so that's what I hate. I don't even understand insurance, really. I don't think anyone does. But the obsession of like, are they coming back? I know. Why wouldn't they come back? Please don't come back, guys. I'm now like, well, I'm going to have to be watching this like crazy. I'm going to have to get loud alarms over there. I'm going to have to do a lot of stuff now.

And I think that's the thing I resent is it's just the anxiety of are they coming back? Rob, when you got here, did you check? Because, I mean, I'm shocked. They don't want our memorabilia. They didn't take Liberti. Oh, well, they. They made a huge mistake. They slept on a gem. So here's the blessing, though. I wouldn't have gone in to the studio all weekend. Why would I come in here? This is our place of work and it was the weekend. And we had a really great, wonderful guest on Monday.

And we would have arrived with no cameras. Yes. So again, I couldn't help but be grateful that I at least discovered it on Friday. Rob then had a weekend of his life trying to track. Yeah. Went on a real adventure. Yes. Oh, man. I hate knowing they were in my gym and stuff. I hate it. I'm sure Kristen hates. It feels so violating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway. Anywho. It's really bad. That's a bummer. Yeah. Now let's talk about victories. Sure.

Oh, I flew to Vegas on Saturday. Oh, right. That's worth reporting. Okay. Our sweet best boy, Jimmy Kimmel, was being honored by this great charity that works with Cleveland Clinic that does work on Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Neurological disorders. And it provides a ton of support for the caregivers of all these people who have these conditions. 11 million people are caregiving.

Went to Vegas just for the day and went gambling with Kristen. And I wouldn't be shocked if we get barred from the MGM. I don't know that they'll let us back at the tables. Why? Because we put it to them so hard. We won $225. Wow. So. Cool. Probably will get barred. Do people get barred for doing so well?

They can't, right? They do at certain games. Yeah. Yes. In fact, it's in Nate Silver's book. So the people are really good at counting cards, which is not illegal, but the casino has the option of denying you. play there for any reason they want. Right. So they will notice someone's counting cards in a single deck or double deck.

and then they will not allow them to gamble anymore. Got it. So a lot of these people, yeah, and ultimately, I think there was the Harvard, there was some Harvard thing where they, over the course of 10 years, they won. Millions of dollars. Oh, wow. With a system. Again, not illegal. They weren't, they weren't like tapping any devices or anything. It was just all math. But they all, ultimately all of them were barred from all these casinos. Yeah. Yeesh.

Yeah. Okay. Sunday. Sunday. Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. Sunday was the SAG Awards. Uh-huh. It went really, really well. Kristen killed it. It went perfect. It went perfect. She did such a good job. Everyone hit all their beats. Yeah. And it was great. It was a very well-run tight show. It was. I was impressed. Yeah. That motherfucker's straight live. I know. That was scary. Yeah. Yeah, that part. There was only a couple of hiccups and it had nothing to do with anyone's writing.

Yes, there was a couple technical things. Oh, there were technical things? Well, like there was like a sound. There was like a little bit of on Adam's bit, the sound was out at the very beginning. And I was annoyed by that, of course. That's rough. But it happens. For a live show, that's not too bad. Not too bad. No, it went really smooth. I was very.

happy with it and I think Kristen was too so yes and I was backstage with the children yeah you came you had a great dress oh thank you I did I noticed on your post you had like a thousand comments people were Exploding. Well. I would argue some spraying. Well, we don't know about that. When you get a thousand comments. We don't know. But it was.

Yeah. Remember when I was in my gala era and I was buying all those dresses? You were in search of a gala. Yeah, I needed a gala to go to to wear all these dresses. I didn't go to any real galas. So I had some dresses. I was proud of myself because I do have a contact at Valentino. And I reached out and said, hey, you know, I'm.

writing for Christmas for the SAG award. So I'll be there and I'm going to do the carpet. Can I borrow something? And she was like, yes. So she had sent me some stuff. Well, no. So she had sent me some stuff and I, and it was all great, but I, I. I had, I did contrary action. Yes. And I decided to wear something in my closet that I have not worn. Oh, okay. Which was this dress from the gala era. Okay.

I was like, this dress has been sitting here for a long time. It needs to be worn. Yeah. She needs to go out on town a little bit. Yeah. And so I wore it and I was very happy with it. And Jenny did my hair and Simone did my makeup. What a team. I want to shout out everyone that works in this whole organism that is something like this. Marcel. Publicist. Who I love. Who's been around for 20 years. My sweetest boy alive.

Jenny doing hair. Yeah. Best vibe possible. And best. And best in the biz. Yeah. Simone makeup. Incredible. Known her forever. Who am I leaving? Anna's there crushing. You're there crushing. Nicole. Nicole is styling the fuck out of it. It's incredible. Everyone just works so calm. Like it's such a well, sometimes I'm, I like, I'll.

be doing a talk show as a guest. And I'm walking to my green room and I look in the other people's green. And sometimes I look in and it's just fucking madness, right? It's like people panicking. Yeah. That energy is rough for me. That's not the vibe. So just well done to the whole team. The whole team. It was really fun because I.

Did this for Kristen in 2018. So it's very deja vu. Like we are in the same room, the same auditorium, all of that stuff, which was really fun. Same people. We were looking at old pictures. There's like all these Polaroids of Simone and Jenny. Nicole and me and Kristen and Marcel. And it's, it's just, it was really funny and weird full circle. Cause you know, when we did it last time we had, maybe we were.

About to start this show, this podcast. We had started it, but yeah. Had we? Yeah, because. If it was this time. This was last weekend. And we had our anniversary two weeks before that or a week before that. Well, I don't know the exact. And we recorded before we launched. Yeah, I'm saying brand new. Yeah, it was in January. Oh, it was. Yeah. OK, then you're dead right. Anyway, we hadn't started this or we had maybe started some recording, but we weren't.

A podcast. Yeah, really. And so sometimes you get those rare moments where you're in the exact same place. But your life is so different. And you can really reflect on that because of the circumstances. And it was. It was nice to see my growth. But yeah, so it was special to have that. And it did remind me. that that was such a fun job. Like being around all those people and doing that and the energy. And yeah, it was, it was nice to sort of drop back into that and also see Anna.

In this position that I was in and her just like killing it. Crushing it. Yeah, it was it was really it was really nice. Sweet night. Yeah. I was happy for all the ladies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She Kristen did such a good job. Oh, God. She can also, she can fucking, she is so calm and confident. It's boggling. Yeah. She's so chill and fucking not in a hurry. Nope. She's like a great comedian that's not in a hurry.

Yeah. It's impressive. Very, very impressive. OK, here's my crazy moment. So we're leaving and I'm carrying tons of bags and stuff and I've got the kids in tow and we're going to the car. And I literally bump into meet cute. My biggest crush, Timothy Chalamet. Yes, Timothy was.

He ducked into our area for a minute to take a phone call. And I walked in and he was just standing right there, which was quite thin. Yeah, he was hanging in the hallway with his mom when I bumped into him. Yeah. And I go, hey. First of all, he's much taller than I was expecting. He is, yeah. Tall boy. Oh, he's so dreamy. And I go, oh my God, I'm so horny for you. And he goes, oh, thank you. And I just, I can't believe how into your career I am. I'm following it like I'm a teenager.

And he's like, oh, my God, thanks, dude. I tap danced away from that interaction. I was smitten. Nice. I loved his speech. Mm hmm. We talked on the way home about it. Kristen was like, it's weird to hear someone admit they want to be great and they want to be like Brando and all these people. And I go.

But why? If you're a snowboarder, you would say, I want to be the next Shaun White or I want to be Jordan. That's what you should. If you're entering into an endeavor as your main focus of your life, yeah, you should damn well be trying to get. to the greatest it's ever been done. Totally. I loved it. I thought, yeah, why is everyone acting like they don't want to be that? That's awesome. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. It just goes to show when you love somebody, whatever they say, you kind of like it.

I agree. It's honest to say I want. I mean, I think what people might be confused. I don't know. Maybe they think he's talking about fame, but he isn't. He would have said Burt Reynolds or Ben Affleck. Sure. You know, ultra famous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was exciting. Great night, Fawn. Great night. Great night. Great, great night. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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The clock is ticking. Okay, this is for Mindy. Mindy. So exciting. Did you enjoy listening back while you're editing? Yeah, it was great. Did it help reconfirm it happened? Yeah, we have been we have been waiting for so long. Some people on my post, I posted a picture that was teasing an episode and it was this one. Some people were right. They guessed Mindy. Yeah. Yeah. So that was exciting. Okay. Really quick. Jordan food poisoned. Was he food poisoned? Was he? Yes. Well, it was Pizza Hut.

He ordered pizza before Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals, also known as the flu game. Right. I just want to add, I've had... Pizza a couple million times and I've never had food poisoning. I don't know how you would get how a bacteria would still be alive after it goes through the oven. This lends itself to the conspiracy theory. It does. OK, so hit us.

But also he maybe he got meat on it and the meat was still was mad cow. No, you blast even mad cow. You blast that in the furnace. It's dead. Mad cow. Mad cow. Oh, my God. Where my mad cow's at? Okay, his trainer, Tim Grover, and friend, George Kohler, were with them when the pizza arrived. Grover said he had a bad feeling about the pizza.

Jordan woke up at 2.30 throwing up and couldn't hold anything down. Wait, didn't you say five guys delivered the pizza? Yeah, last time it said that. So that to me is what's... Very problematic. Five guys delivered the pizza. If five guys show up to deliver a pizza for me, I'm not opening the door. They're going to rush in. I know. Not Russian. I'm not saying Russians are all home invaders. I'm saying rush in. Rush space in. But some rumors just say he was hungover. Oh.

That's a fun rumor. The poison pizza is very, some people don't believe it. This reminds me of, you were too young to really watch people's court a lot, right? Did you ever watch people's court? No. It was the precursor to Judge Judy. Yeah. Let's see. Doug Llewellyn was a commentator. He would name the cases. And this was like someone who ordered a pizza suing the pizza delivery guy. And Doug Llewellyn called it.

The Case of the Painful Pepperoni Pizza. Oh, God. And it was so memorable. Okay, now this I'm going to play. This is Jay Moore's Christopher Walken. Oh, I just played it last night. Can you please tell me? Christopher Walken story. First time I met Christopher Walken, I go to say hi to him. As I'm walking up to him, the first thing he says to me is, you know, I can see you coming.

I'm like, because I'm introducing myself. I'm not a Vietnamese sniper working a tree line. Like, it's how, no offense, it's how introductions work. And before I say anything, he goes, you know, I can see you coming. I had my Rottweiler with me. He goes, I can see your dog too. And I go, her name is Shirley. And he says, who cares? And I thought he cared because he brought it up. And he goes, I got to know what happened to your dog, Shirley Rottweiler.

What happened to your dog's tail? It's gone. Where did it go? It's okay. You can tell me. And I'm just standing there like in this driveway going. Where the fuck is my dog's tail? And then he gets like real close to me and he goes, it would be great to have a tail. And I'm cool, right? So I look back at him, I go, why? And he goes, come on, if you had a channel, everyone would know if you were angry or upset, they'd see you. They'd see you coming.

Up the block. They'd say, get back. Look at his tail. He's crazy. And I go, well, you probably mean happy. Like people know if you're happy, if you have a tail, you'd wag it because you're happy. And he goes, maybe you and your tail. Yeah, he just cut the ring off on me, right? And then he looked at me like it's my turn to talk. I looked down at the dog and the dog's like, nah, not me. I go, would you rather be able to fly or have a tail? That's what I got out.

And he goes, a tail, of course. Would you rather have a tail than be able to fly? He goes, you could always get on an airplane with your tail. Funny. So funny. So he's married to. Yes. That's so crazy. This was exciting. Jeannie Buss. Yeah. Owner of the Lake Coors. So never been to a game and I would really like to go. You've never been to a game. You got to figure that out. It's a it's a party. In fact, I just saw Instagram yesterday of Will Ferrell and Chad Smith.

drummer for the chili peppers you know they look identical oh type in chad smith you're gonna your horns are gonna fall off your head and They're nodding back and forth to each other and doing a whole thing. He's also like six, four. He's tall like Will as well. Yeah. So they were like both at the game and they were making a real.

It's fucking freaky. If Chad's nose was just a little narrower, there's no way to tell him apart. Wow. They really look like twins. That's crazy. Twinsies, twinning. We still need a twin expert. Okay. Mindy made a remark about Olivia Munn. investing in Uber in the first round. It was kind of a joke, but she did. Oh, my God. She's rich. She did. She invested in Uber at a $290 million valuation when it was still a private company. And now Uber is worth, says 157.82 billion market cap.

Whoa. Should I look up what Bitcoin is today? No. Why? Because we're tanking it, right? We don't have it. But people are going to connect that since we started reporting, it's been going down, and then they're going to. attack us under the veil of night. What is that? Go ahead, tell me. Yeah, I think the joke's worth it. It's 88... 1,195.61. It has been going steadily down since we've been reporting on this. Yes, you have to admit that. I think the first one was like 102,000. Look.

As you said, we're just not that powerful, though. All we're doing is reporting. We're not causing. Except for me causing the lion's loss. That's still up in the air. And my ring. Yeah, and your ring. Yeah. Lost us the election. My eggs are not burned by the fires. Yeah. But there were eggs from.

The same company or hospital that were in a different location that did have to all get transferred. It's good to know they transferred. I know. I agree. So they were saying you get burnt up. I know. Oh, my God. I mean. Yeah, the amount of months that goes into harvesting those eggs. Yeah. Can I use that word harvesting? Sure. Okay. I'm fine with it. Okay. And the shots and the hormones for a year. The retrieval. The retrieval.

Yeah. And not only the cost, but like the I I don't know if I'll have as much if I had to do it again. The irreplaceability. Yes. Of it. Exactly. Yeah, that's scary. Scary. And yeah, I've been thinking more about it since Mindy and I, since Mindy chatted about her experience a little bit. She makes it look good.

Yeah, she makes it look possible. She has three children. Would you ever get an answer from your contractor? When I was with you, you emailed them. Oh, yeah. Let's look at it. Let's find out. OK, because you are constantly. telling me that your house is bigger than my house is bigger than yours which is Outrageous. Now I am now scared. So what is yours? 4,300 square feet. Is there any extra, is it 43 something? Ooh, this might be like our IQs. No, I actually think it's like $42.90 something.

That includes all the other buildings? Shut up, Rob. Yeah, no. That's a side. We can have that and you'll win that one. Yeah. But right now, the house we live in. No. Not this studio. I'm not counting the studio. You should count it too then. More than just the studio. No, I can't because I can't count.

here and get water like you did for Clayton. Oh, I appreciate it. You would have figured out the cameras were stolen a little earlier. No, no, no. Anyways, what's your house? We're getting distracted. The only thing on my property is 43... 43. 80. 45. 40. 4,345 square feet. Yeah. And that's what I saw in your plans. So we got an extra 45. Yep. You have a bigger house than we do. Okay. But you understand like.

That's crazy what you're saying, right? We really can't agree on this, that the fact that you have a main house with bedrooms. Yeah. A guest house. Yeah. A garage with an office and a gym. Above it. Separate. Yeah. So that's, these are all great points. And then the attic and the garage. Those are great, great points. But I have one counter that's very, again, you're going to have to acknowledge how powerful this is.

When I go to sell this house, it is illegal for me to say that the house is more than 4,300 square feet. You cannot include any out housing. Okay. That's not included. So when I put it up on the market, people will think they're. Bidding on a 4,300 square foot. Only if they're a blind person. I'm just saying the city only acknowledges 4,300 and the real estates only acknowledge 4,300. Be honest. Would you rather? Would you rather? By this?

property or mine? I also have an acre. I'll admit my property is bigger. Okay, let's imagine. Take out the yard. Let's talk about... Now these buildings are going to be on top of each other. Well, the city is not going to acknowledge it, but the buyer is going to acknowledge it. Exactly. And can you. They won't even come and look at it. If I'm trying to sell it for a price that would be commensurate with how much of these outbuildings I have.

They won't even come look at the, I'm not driving across town to look at a 4,300 square foot house for that much. All you have to do is look at the pictures and then you see 80 different places to sleep, live, dream. Cry. There is no question. There is zero question that this estate you have here is more valuable than mine. Both things are true. I have more.

Square footage all told. Yeah. And what's also true is that your house is bigger than my house. Oh, boy. That's true. My garage is in my house. But your garage. My house is the building I live in and eat in and sleep in. You spend equal amounts of time throughout this whole property. You spend the same amount of time in this building as I do.

own it I don't have any when someone comes to buy it I don't I can't say like look you have you want to work across the street you can be in that building as much as the owner You're crazy. I know you're bummed that your house is bigger, but it just is. We just found out. I am not bummed. I am bummed by you trying to manipulate everyone into thinking I'm. Have a bigger house? Have a bigger house. Because I want you to have a bigger house than me. I know, but you, but.

But, oh, God, it's dark. Is that dark? It's a little dark. It is not. I think it is. And I haven't really fully pinpointed why. Oh. But. You feel darkness. I feel like. I'm locked into the story. The story is fantastic. I love the story. Such a great American story. I think what a good story. Take us out of it. There's a family in Louisiana. Congrats. A woman comes in to clean their house. Sounds like a riddle at the beginning of a riddle or a joke.

A woman comes in to clean their house. Okay. Okay. And then within a few short years. That same woman builds a house across the street that's bigger. Okay. I love that story. What is wrong with that story? You love that story. That story is omitting some important. parts. Yeah, what? That the lady who comes to clean the house, first of all, you...

downgraded her to cleaning the house. Well, I can't say babysitter because I'm trying to I'm trying to get you out of your you're locked into your story and I'm trying to make a story very similar. OK, then you'd have to say a. College educated. Great. College educated person who who moved here to chase a dream. Yeah. Had an odd job at the house. Yeah. But could have. And then a few years later built.

A house across the street that was bigger. But that, look. That's great. I know you love it. What's wrong? How do you not love that story? No, there's nothing. It's not real. It's, I am. I am highly capable and... At no point in this story have I said the maid in Louisiana was gifted a house across the street. No, no, I know that, but...

The context around you here, the maid in Louisiana, you are not imagining someone who could probably at any moment go get employed or go get a higher degree and then get employed. Quickly and immediately. Well, you're making all those assumptions about the woman cleaning the house. You are.

No, it's part of why you like the story. The story is not as good in theory if it's just someone who's like totally is can totally become a lawyer tomorrow, then goes and buys the house across the street. Disagree. It's still fine for you. Yes, I love that. That doesn't diminish the story at all.

Oh, it's a story of someone starting on the bottom rung of a ladder and being at the very top of the ladder five years later. It's like a great story. It's like the most triumphant story. I don't know why you can't accept. That's more curious to me is the story that if you heard about you would love has happened to you and you feel removed from it. Well, it happened to you too. Yes. Different, but yes.

The exact same. You moved from another place. You started off at the bottom working at CPK and you have this house. What's the difference? Why is my story more interesting? Because all of that came from the job you got. You didn't buy the house across the street because you went out and did a TV show for 12 years. Right.

I think that's your, I think you might have a hang up about that and I don't. Well, what do you mean? You directly rose through this household. Yeah. And ended up going into business with one of the. owners of the household, which created all this. Yeah, that's great. That's a different story than mine. I have a great story, but it's a much different story.

Sure. I cobbled together 25 different acting jobs before I bought the house. It's not a story of me. This is a story of someone entering GM and becoming the CEO. Yeah, I see what you mean. I see what you mean. Yeah, I guess maybe it feels different to me because it didn't, that wasn't the intention, I guess. Yeah, well, yeah. Like if you started at GM and become the CEO, that's probably your intention is to like maneuver your way to the top. But I guess we invented the top.

In some ways. So that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I love it. I just think it's a great. I love the story. And it's an even better story. I think if your house is bigger. Well, I guess you're in luck. Oh, and that's a ding, ding, ding, because she wanted people to write on their house, how they made their money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that really, this would probably satisfy her greatly, this debate. All righty. All right. Love you.

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At 24, I lost my narrative, or rather it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks, both recognizable and unrecognizable names, about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph.

My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up. They connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.