Jason Kidd | Ep 151 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

run you guys made this season? Yeah, I think this is my third time back in Dallas, so you know, being drafted and then being able to win a championship in Dallas and then you know, come back and coach. You know, I think as the players, we never think about coaching. We're just thinking about getting numbers and winning and and so to be able to go back where

it all started is surreal. So, you know, my press conference, Dallas is known to be a team that likes to score, and I wanted to kind of change that theme and talk about defense. And I know a lot of people were questioning and are the MAV's gonna really play defense? Because they're gonna put the ball in the basket. And so to win championships or to win any level, you gotta play both sides of the ball. And so that was what I wanted to try to get across, and somehow,

some way we found a way to do it. How long did you feel like that process was, because again, like I said, that's not a model of a typical Dallas team. How long did you feel like, Okay, these got to starting, the lights starting to come on. I thought around Christmas. I've always believed this. You know, as a player, you find out who you are by Christmas. As much as you want to come out of the gates and win and make every shot, I think when you're a veteran, uh, you find out, okay, this is

who we are this year. Every year is going to be different. But by Christmas, I think you really find out who you are. And I thought, you know, right around Christmas to start a new year, we saw the defense tick go up and we took off and uh, and it started with our our best player. Luca asked him to participate fight and he did that and UH. And so when your best player does it, it's easy to talk to everybody else about doing it. Talk to us a little bit about Luca. We're gonna get into

him with a little bit later. But since you mentioned them, just what kind of player person and is there a ceiling for someone who's talented as him? No, yeah, Jack answered the question for me. You know, when you look at the ceiling the skies that let mean he can fly forty to get until he until he gets tired.

And so when you look at his abilities to control the game offensively, he's only twenty three years old to get that, um and and it loves to play the game, and so I'm just lucky to have the opportunity to have a good seat watch him play and then also just try to help him what I see to make the game with no stress. And that's something that we talked about. If he was sitting right next to me,

he would talk about Coach always talks about no stress. Um. But sometimes you know he's a believer that he can take on the world. And you know when he hits his stride in the sense of understanding how to use all the pieces, uh toe, have you seen that kind of just i Q and someone that I mean, obviously you are a high I Q guy. For someone his to be able to do all that he does at his age, I haven't. Um, when you talk about someone who's played overseas, Uh, he's been a pro you know,

fourteen fifteen years old. Um. You know you look at what he's picked up from being a pro or really on in life, and so he's not afraid. He's seen the double teams and switches, the boxing one um, and he believes that he can beat them all and most of the time he does. So I think when you when you look at what he does, Uh, he's different because he has his own speed limit. Um, he's not nope, nope, UM. And I think sometimes what's not talked about it's his size.

He's a he's big. He's a big boy. And I've been around Lebron and he has that Lebronish type, you know, height, thickness in the sense of being a big boy. He can he can hold you off. He's not afraid of contact. Um. But he's not afraid of the stage. You know, he loves the stage. With with with you knowing like okay, you're talking about defense, but you knowing how important it was for you to lead on both fends. Like everything starts with the point guard. Is he figurings he getting

that now? Is he get to that point now? Yeah? You know, I think we saw it this season. U. Um. You know there's times when, as you know in the NBA, they're gonna pick on you, They're gonna pick on the best player if he doesn't want to cooperate or participate playing defense. And so once he understood that if he put up a fight that he had his teammates had his back and they were behind to support him. Um,

coaches were supportive. We're here as coaches to give you the answers to the test and what's coming, and then it's for you to be able to digest when you see that action coming, like, oh, coach told me, this is what they're gonna try to do. It makes the game so much easier. So with myself and looking, we have a great relationship and communication and helping one another. I've been in his shoes, but at twenty three, he's a little bit advanced of where I was at twenty three.

But again, he loves to play the game. He loves the competition, he loves that everybody's focused on him to try to stop him, and they try, they try seasons over a great year. Thank you, you're already ready for next year? Where's your head at now? Like, what what are you thinking right after this great year? Yeah? You know, um, yeah, but we'll get to that. But you know, this is funny you ask that question, you say the nice things, and you know in this league that season is over nothing. Yes,

because um, there's only one winner. Everybody comes in last. And you know, Going State won the championship, so everybody else came in last. And so we're just at the beginning as this journey. And we talked about defense, and one of the things that we'll talk about going forward is can everyone just get better? You know, I'm only asking you to get better at one percent, that's all I'm asking. If you can get better at one percent, it makes our team fifteen and seventeen percent stronger, right,

So take the wins and losses out of it. Um, that means everybody had a good summer. Everybody has a good season, and so that's the way we approach it. Um. We bring up J. B. Bronson losing Brunson, but the biggest thing is I'm happy that he got paid. He helped us. Yes, we all. Uh. I know Cuban doesn't like this, but I love when I can help people get paid. And I'll tell a player, um, first day camp, Hey, tell me what you want. Well, everybody wants shots, everybody

wants minutes, but that's not the truth. They want to get paid and they want to play cool. I can help you do that, okay. But the other part of that is I'm just gonna ask for a couple of things to trust and communicate and play hard and those things that you asked for me to help you get what happened. And if you ask Bronson, um, but he would tell you that he listened. Good things happened, and and and I only want to put people in a position to be successful. That's it. And there's dirty companies

in the NBA. We all can't stay on the same company. So for him to go to New York to get paid, to have the opportunity to run his own team, I'm happy for him. Me me, you know how good of a coach you are, and me and I know how men love the game, how we played the game. It bothers me when you have to ask people to play hard. Yeah, well, as as you know, um, it's a different athlete, different player. Um, playing hard is now a talent, you know, you know, being able to uh you know, check that Box said

that told me that we're talking about Greek. He told me that that's the talent. It's a talent. Um. As we grew up, that was never as a must. Yes, it was never in doubt. Um. The other side of that, too is how many how many guys really love the game? How many guys love to be in the gym and sweat, not what the game can do for you, yeah, or not even go to the gym and think they got better today, you know, And so you have to spend time in the gym when you look at yourself. You

guys spend time in the gym. You learn from each other. You learn from guarding. Matt Barnes. Matt Bonds learned from you. So when we played in the regular season, he knew what your go to move was. But then you made you better because you had to now find out, I gotta work on a second day move when I see Matt, So Matt doesn't know that I have this next move. But I think the big thing is just the the

teaching um to be able to work and the imagination. Um, you know, hopefully our imagination for our young younger players will continue to bro because I think we're losing that a little bit. Nico. Yeah, Nico is somebody who I love. Man, the main reason why I got my Jordan deal back. Uh, he is my guy. But I just love the way he transitioned from where he started to run in Jordan now to being with the Mavericks. You know, talk about your relationship with him and how proud of you to

see his development. Yeah, I've been trying to get Nico for a couple of years to become a GM. UM. I tried in Milwaukee. Um, and then that happened here in Dallas is unbelievable. But our relationship goes back to that Sush. Every right knows Nico, And when you talk about Nico, no one has anything bad to say about one thing because of his relationships and the way that he takes care of people. UM. And so I'm I'm so happy to have him as a brother but also

as a teammate. Um being able to build a championship team in Dallas and uh, we're lucky to have him and uh, and he's done an incredible job. You can talk about the trade KP being a again spencer and doarvis but being able to understand what it means to build. But also he's helping teach us about relationships and as we talked about, you got your deal back right. But he's always responded to a text, a phone call and uh, and that's why I want. People love him and you

never find anybody say anything bad about him. So talk about your upbringing in Oakland. Yeah, it's differ, not ain't different now, but uh, you know, I tell people I was lucky to be able to grow up and no Oakland. Um, I had the luxury to have two parents who both had jobs, who were able to drive me to practice in East Oakland, West Oakland, San Francisco, or wherever it may be. But also I had you know, my mom was white and my dad was African American, and so

I got to grow up in the melting pot. And so you know, racism wasn't anything, um, you know, in our household. It was something that my mom would drive me to seminary in Oakland. Um, which is um, I wouldn't say a nice part, but it worked out Rainbow Center. And I used to tell my mom Hey, don't don't look left for right. Just keep straight and keep the car moving and I'll just jump out as as we'll get close. Uh but it you know, it's Oaklands is

Oakland's the melting pot. Um. I was also lucky to be around the greatest athletes at the time of the sports. When you talk about Joe Montana, Um, when you talk about the A's and the Bash brothers, you talk about the Warriors, they had Tim Hardaway, Chris whoever run t mc um you know, so I got. I was very fortunate that the sports was was really at a high level. Now, basketball, the Warriors weren't that good. They weren't the Warriors of today.

But um to be able to play at at the age of fourteen fifteen with the Warriors, UM was something that I got lucky to do. When when when Nelly invited me to come work out with the guys growing up, you know a lot of basketball bread and came from there. But who were some of your idols quiet g P or when you guys first crossed past was no, I got to play for his dad, Um a you and so Mr mean Um And then when you talk about g P, no, he he I don't think he was

ever quiet. Um, but I got the opportunity to. Uh, he was my big brother. He's five years old. I know that for sure. He's old. And then you had be Shaw. This is another rich you know, b Shaw, Greg Foster, an Tonio Davis, Hook Mitchell. When you talk about basketball, I mean I was very fortunate. I was the youngest, so I had to make sure I was always pulling up getting everybody's bags and and everything else. But it was cool. But it was a great experience because GP let me know that when I was in

high school, I felt kind of good about myself. I thought I was doing the right thing. But he humbled me very quickly. That let me know that I wasn't ready and that I wasn't as good as I thought. I was. M that stuck with who did it? It made me cry. You know, you go when you when you think you're you're playing at a high level and then you play against g P one on one and he doesn't let you get a shot off. Yeah, and there's you know, I was looking for a referee because

I know there was some fouls. There had to be some fouls. Um uh maybe, but I would never tell him that I did that. It was probably years after, but I do have a quick story. I was a rookie playing for Dallas. We're playing in Tacoma when Seattle had to play in Tacoma for a year, and I'm guarden gee and she's posting me up, so I know exactly what he's gonna do. He's gonna spend right and then he's gonna try to lay the ball up. So he spends right, goes up and I'm there not blocking.

I tell him, get that ship out of here, and he's running back look back at me. I go, oh no, and he went on like a personal old one, and I was like, damn, what was I thinking? Why did

I wake up the monster? And uh? And and back then because there was so much isolation that he just at me on one side of the floor and was just like you or not and he was just uh island, I don't even know it was the island was it was a flood page him can speed him up, and you knew he's gonna spin and do all these things. But um, that's when I knew man, and I knew

not to say nothing, but you couldn't help yourself. I was a rookie and I felt good that I blocked this shot and I thought that was gonna go in the right direction. That's natural though. I just think anyway, as a hooper, anytime you block shot, that's the only thing that come out with your someone you look up to, someone that dogged you out in the fast You gotta

get that off your chest. When I say the name Hook Mitchell, you just mentioned him a second ago, but obviously legend when it comes to basketball in the Bay Area. Talked to us about Hook Mitchell, how good he was, how small he was, and what could have been. Yeah, when you talk about Mitchell, he's always that the top of the list of basketball players for Oaktown, especially when you talk about the dunk contest. Um. He would play

anywhere concrete in the gym. I mean, wherever there was a ram and a ball, he would be willing to go play. And Uh, I would say he's probably about five ten. Uh, we can stretch him out to six feet. But when you talk about yeah, he was he was jumping over everything, everything and anything and so. But he loved to play the game. Again, if there was a basketball someone would pick him up or he tell him to meet him. Somewhere he would be there. But he

loved the game of basketball. And you know, unfortunately, sometimes in life we make decisions that send us the wrong way. And uh, and that's what happened with him. But his name has always been mentioned as one of the best to play the game of basketball on the BAK. I got a chance to play against him in the early two thousand's fresh when he got out um in a I went up in Sacramento. Obviously heard about him, but Jack, this dude was pulling jumpers from half court. But little

dude getting the breakaway and dunking that bitch. He was probably and maybe late early forties. Yeah, how does he know he's he's has to be older than g and so I would say close to sixty, right, Yeah, I would say in that fifty five range. Um. But when you when you talk about shooting it from half court, you had to pick him up, had to before half court because he could let it fly. Um. And this is before you know those shots. Uh, those shots were considered bad shots and we would be sat, who are

to go off? Jack, Matt Jason comes, you can't shoot that? But for for when you talk about hook he had the range to shoot it deep. It was tough man buried Areas obviously a very underrated hotbed. Give me your Bay Area all time, starting five, whether it went to the league or not. Okay, I can start with Bill Russell, San Francisco, Dawn Um, you can go pop you know, Paul Silas Um when you look at Chep's gonna be on there. If not, he's gonna track me down. So

let me let's just get him on there real quick. Uh. JR Rider around? Oh you got JR Rider? Easy writer, Oh, easy rider that he doesn't get enough credit either. He was a bad boy in high school Scotland. Oh my goodness, Incidel high boy. That was a bad boy. Now he won't make I don't know should he make that? Less know? All? So you guys, I like JR. I'm going with JR g P. And then I gotta go with one of the older brothers, be shaw I'm gonna go be shaw Um and and that would be I think that's five,

maybe six. I probably the Let's see, we got Russell that he's pretty good side us. We got mean tough l We're good there. JR. Or athletic Street g P. He's gonna make sure everybody knows where to go and then be Shaw Berkeley. You chose to stay home. You could have went anywhere in the country. Oh, before we get there talking to us about baseball, A lot of people don't know you were real nice on the baseball field. Uh, you're sat Joe's alumni brother Ray Young reminded me before

the interview. But I talked to me about baseball and and and and let these people know how nice you were on that sport. You guys, do you guys get their information? You guys are good man. Damn. There's only a few people who know about baseball. But I loved the game of baseball, play both basketball baseball, played all the way up to cal Um. I don't know if

a lot of people know. That's why I went to Cal because they said I would have the opportunity to play baseball, and so I got to work out with the group my freshman year UM, and I was gonna play my sophomore year, but then I decided that I was gonna go bro and they advised that I shouldn't play just in case you get hurt. But I love the game of baseball, so I was like, I'm not gonna get hurt center field, and so I just enjoyed a game of baseball. And so, um that's one of

the things as a head coach. In my office, I don't have Sports Center on or or you know, anything ESPN. I have the Baseball Network on and just to watch to see what's going on in baseball. But um, I just I love watching it. I love being around and I love watching the guys do what they do. It's not an easy game. But also in the Bay Area we had a lot of talented baseball players too when I was growing up. Bobby Smith who was drafted by Tampa Bay at the time, he was Freemont High. But

I played a lot of basketball with him. And then when you look at the baseball we're rich in the talent that comes out of the Bay with with with baseball for sure. So again you end up going to cow Um could have went anywhere. Baseball was a signing factor for you. And be at home. Okay, uh you know, I'm I didn't want to leave home. So so baseball

is staying at home. Um. I knew the guys on the team at Cal with Lamon, Murray, Monty Buckley, Um being so being and so being with those guys, UM, playing pickup games with those guys, they would always say, man, we just need you and we'll be fine. Um. So I guess they did their part in recruiting UM. And so that's that's why I felt going staying home, I would have an opportunity to play and and help those guys. A little off script thoughts on the Pack twelve kind

of dismantling in front of our eyes. Yeah, don't I don't know who's gonna be in what conference? Big twelve, Big Tens? Crazy? Um? Now, dude, we if we go Big ten, do we have to fly all the way to New York, like I mean every week? Right? Yeah? So I think it's gonna be just two conferences coming? Are you just Power East and West Conference? That's it? Yeah? You know, the landscape of college has changed, right, Um?

And I think the landscape of basketball or any sport I should say, um, especially in college has changed, and uh and for the better. There's a lot of money being made. UM. I think the voices of the student athletes are being heard um at times. But I think, uh, the way that we have approached it is we were trying to help, you know, share the money, right, not just taking Yes, what could you have done with some NL n IL money back in your day running the

streets in Oakland? That's a great question that I think we would all benefit, uh in a positive way. But you know, I think it's funny you bring that question up, because we would never thought about you know, we just thought about planes, you know, street and Smith USA. Today you're trying to get those publications to see who's number one and who am I chasing to get to the next level? Um, And there was no money involved. It was just um, there was well definitely was no Instagram

or Twitter, the platforms weren't there. But we were just in it for how we improve our skill set so we can be top five that summer? Then how do I track down the number one player to see? You know, where my game is? And? Uh? But but if you had asked me that question, I don't know that. I'm still confused of how this works because some states. Yeah, so, how much money would you guys have gotten? Yeah, it

would have been some other ship over there. I got some good money over there, but it wasn't no n IL money. Spent two years at cal made the tournament both years. Uh end up being grand healing in the tournament.

Was that your best experience, accl oh Man, Now, you know, I think, Um, it was one of my best experience of accow basketball wise, was being able to get to the tournament, um, and to you know b L s U and then have the opportunity to play to defending champs UH and Grant and Bobby Hurley and find a way to win that game. Um. Everybody talks about the win, but no one really talks about what Hurley did to us. He was cooking us the high picking row. We had

no answers. It's just we we got lucky to ball bounce our way. But it was an incredible experience because when you watch the March Madness, it's it's incredible. It's one of the funnest times of the year. But I would say on campus one of my best experiences is you know, cal protests everything, and so there was a naked guy who would walk around campus with just the thing on front and his book back and go to class and uh and he was freedom of speech. But

this was as a freedom of cheeks. Yeah, no more. But as a young student athlete, it was just eye opening of like what was happening on campus and uh, and so to put things in perspective, that was just a normal thing on campus at Cal because there was always someone protesting something. Two things you made a lot of a lot of us fall in love with number five. First of all, did you ever heard the term people just call you light skaning magic? No, I'm not li

was liking magic. That's what they called you. That's pretty cool, that's new. I haven't heard that, but now that was my favorite player growing up. That's the one that I tried to copy, uh and emulate my game as a kid, you know in Oakland, Um trying to throw the passes he would throw. I couldn't do the sky hook. I wasn't very good at the sky hook, but the baby Scott hook. But I just loved it the way that he played the game and at the end he always

found a way to win. And so that's what really draw drew me to be trying to be magic and so to be life scaming magic. That's kind of cool. How close were you coming after we played in the finals, I was in Yeah, Pop, three great questions. So um, I meet with Tim and Pop and I'm in UM. The one thing that was a hold up was I

was like it was a small thing. Is like, man, I got sit here and watch you guys get the rings after just but that's just one game, and like we'll get past it and we'll have opportunities to win more. But then, um, the loyalty of like, man, we build something in Jersey and I think we can get there. Um. But not knowing the business side of what was coming down that they started, they traded Kmark that following year

and so things fell apart fast. But um, to be a spur, I was very very close because the reason why I know, because Tony would have been going and I would have stayed. No, that's that's that's that's how it was all working, you know, because the whole summer, the everything, everybody was on the list to get J Kid. That was that was they were talking about that point. Even the finals even stopped, but even one of the

finders they were talking about it. So in the summer, that's all my agent was telling me, if if J Kid come, you're gonna you're gonna stay in San Antonio, not you gotta go to the limb because they're gonna keep talking. I wish you would have told me that exactly, draft number two pick. Overall the experience, let the draft talk about it. Yeah, the draft is again surreal because as a as a kid growing up, that's all you're

dreaming about. You watch it on TV, and so when it's your opportunity to go to the draft room and just to wait to hear your name, UM, it's kind of like a movie in fast forward and then also in rewind because you're thinking about what you're gonna do in the n B a um, and then you go with a rewind because you think about all the all the things you did to get to that point. Um.

And then let's see your mom and dad. You know, excited for you, but you're more excited for them because it's also a thank you to them all the hard work and sec did you ever have within your first year an all moment like damn, I'm playing so and so. I know you got thrown in the fire with GP early, but outside of that, oh j um, everybody. Yeah, I mean when you talk about the greatest uh, you talk about m and and seeing and having to guard him on a possession or two. I'll never forget in Dallas,

I'm guarding him on the right box. Um, I don't know what he was gonna do. I just hoping that he won. He didn't dunk it into He just did it real fast so we can get onto over with it. So he spends baseline. I think he's gonna go to the fade, and he goes grow more dribble and he kind of jumps. I'm going, oh, no, he's gonna dunk this, and he kind of did a reverse and flipped it on the glass. Okay, that's cool, you didn't dunk it

two points. And then he starts running down the sideline and he looked back at Wink and I go, oh, this is an asshole. Oh but but I was like, that's cool, you didn't dunk it. And then, you know, I think when he likes you, and maybe this isn't true, but I think when he likes you, he'll take it easy. He couldn't get his average. But if he does not like you, it's it's a fifty piece. He ever give any of your teammates a fifty piece? Um, you know what, we I think he gave us the average. We were

all happy in the locker room. Man, you didn't have fifty five. Your name is attached to one of the greatest basketball shoots of all time, that air Zoom Flight nineties five. What's the back story to that? With the ones he got on now? Oh no, they you know it's it's uh, it's a great shoe. Um. You know it's funny. We got some sent to us the other day and I kind of laugh because I'm like, man, today's shoe was so like this shoe was a little happy, and I was like at the time, they're like, oh no,

this is like like so technology has grown. But um, the wheels were like a car because everybody talked about the speed. Um. And so I thought when they showed me this show, I was like, oh, this is different and it looks cool because we got looks like it has four wheels and we're ready to roll and um.

And so they commenced me it was light. I thought it was great and and to see it today, it's still talked about, which lets you know that uh, who designed it was doing the right draft right And you get a taste of the playoffs in Phoenix and from ninety six to two thousand one, I got a chance to play with Steve Nash. But what they don't know

is I got drafted when y'all were there in ninety seven. Yeah, I think that was a year that sounds that traded for mcdyson, McLeod and Rex, and I think Rex was there already, but they had one pick left in the draft, the second to last pick in the draft. And I got a chance to come work out what y'all play pick up and I got drafted, but they told me it was gonna cut me, so I didn't get a chance to be on that team. But I got a chance to spend like a couple of days with him.

One of the great experience. But I knew that team was gonna be good. But talk about the playoffs of that team, Well, you you talk about the uh, the young and the and the older when you talk about Rex and Danny and those guys. But mcdice was young. Um boy was he uh spend a lot for sure? When you talk about the MCDI we talked about Sean Kemp and these guys who would just turn and go and you could throw it anywhere. Dice is one of those guys and so um. But it's funny like you

bring up Nash. You know, Nash was coming off the bench. I was coming off the bench. We had Kevin Johnson you know there, and so um we were both watching Kevin do his thing, and then we would go in and sometimes would be Kevin Nash and myself out there, you know, small ball at Hiss at his best. But

it was it was real because you had great Kevin Johnson. Again, I don't think gets enough credit being a great point guard in our in our league, but you had a future you know, hall of uh, hall of Famer, and Steve and m v P sitting there as the third string point are which it's a great story about work and belief in and the opportunity in the right system which you can make of it, and just kind of you know, waiting your turn and not being uh and

being patient about the whole situation and so uh. It was a great team. I learned how to win because I think when you come in the league, you think you play for forty minutes and you could be up fifteen, and then all of a sudden the game gets real serious. Six minutes left, you're fifteen, all of a sudden you're

down ten, and you go like what happened? Well, the mature team, the team that knows what it means to take care of the ball and then what it means to play defense, and that's why you see so many swings. But that's where I learned how to win the game. And the last six minutes is where the game really starts. And I didn't know that being drafted, and I found out in Dallas of what it means to or how

to win the NBA game. Now that I think about that, I see why I looked so good that day when I tried it out and all I had to do was run a jump. I thought it was him. It was him. How did the bleach blonde hair come to fact? It might be why he's bad. Now that's a good point. Uh, well, that's what happens when you're bored and hurt. I broke my ankle during that season. Um, and so we had three screws put in and I'm bored. So I'm sitting there, sitting there and going, man, shoot and someone said, hey,

have you ever you know, died your hair? And I go no, like, and I said, let's do it, because um, let's do it. Let's ye Phoenix, I'm in Phoenix. I would want to say, yeah, So I break my ankle, and so I'm out for the season. So I'm like, I'm not gonna see anybody. I'm rehabbing, and then, um, all of a sudden, I died my hair. I go to my rehab. Somehow word got around that I had died my hairs. So my teammates come over to what

I'm rehabbing. They go, we just had to come see your hair, And I said, well, I appreciate you didn't even ask how I'm doing, but okay. Oh well, so they check out my hair. They're killing me, and I'm like, oh, this was a bad idea. Well, it gets worse because now I'm starting to feel better. I'm like, I think I can play in the playoffs. So we play the Lakers. Um and I and I had my hair still die. They asked me, was I gonna cut it off? I go, man, I've gone this far, might as well keep going. So

I played in the playoffs with my hair died. Different experience, so I said, I can say I checked that box off, and and I can let anybody know, like you said, it ends into be involved two thousand til you traded for stuff on my bury in New Jersey. I was just on that team the year before, I mean right before that you got traded there. What was that like going there with all them athletes you had there and all the weapons you had going into that. Yeah, that

team was special. When you talk about they were rookies. We had you know, Jason Collins, We had a pack pack r J. Yeah. R J s did not they did not get along. So Kmart was playing at a high level for us. It was easy to play with him. Throw it up, he was going to get it. It was Carrie Kittles was coming back from injury, Keith van Horn. Yeah, so we had scores. Ronny Rodgers comes over. We get that in a trade, and so it was it was a fun team that r J was gonna run. As

he'll tell you. He wasn't a shooter. Then Harris was the shooter. It's funny that I played with Lucia's as a rookie in Dallas, so for us to be back together and in Jersey, so we understood what it was all about. But it was a team that actually came together in preseason when we believe that we could win. And uh, from that point on, we just we just took off. It was easy just run, You're gonna get the ball. So r J ran, he ran, and then Kmart was coming as a trailer cleaned it up. That's right.

So for me as the quarterback, I just had to make sure I kept everybody happy immediate. I mean, y'all two thousand two, y'all run through the East two years in a row and come up short. Yeah, what's what's what's going on through your mind after y'all go back to back running through the East but can't get past the West. Well, the West was the first time we had to go against the Lakers, so I don't think anybody was gonna beat them. That was different. Was it

thirty six and twelve in the finals? Yeah? He uh those numbers. Oh man, the whole team was going shocked. There was nothing. Remember, I felt so bad for him Williams. Yeah, he was too smart. He tried. Um. But when you look at our team those two years we ran and then um, we think we're gonna have the opportunity to do it again. And unfortunately, with the business to basketball jumps in, there were trades and so but it was

a fun time. Those two teams. Um again, um, we were more built to play West Coast basketball than East Coast, and maybe that was the reason why we had success on the East coast. You got any uh Kobe stores from those battles on any great Kobe stores. Well, the one story going back to that blonde hair. Um, We're playing in the playoffs and I know which way Kobe wants to go, um, and he gets to go where he went, and he jumps and I jumped. Unfortunately his

jump is a little higher and longer. I jumped like my elevator can only go so high. And then it says return. So uh, he hit a game winner um over me in the playoffs. But when you talk about Kobe and his competitiveness, it didn't matter how big or how small you were, he was gonna he was gonna try to destroy you. Um. And that's what separated him from everyone. He was an assassin. Um. He would cut you and by the end of the game, you didn't know that you were gonna bleed out and so and

so that's just his mentality. And uh, he wanted to win and everything. Yeah, oh eight, this is oh eight. We're in Macau and golf has now become a little popular. We have some golfers on the team d will And and Michael Red. So we go to a driving range and Kobe is feeling like, hey, this is easy, I can pick hi. Yeah. Yeah. He came out to one of like, oh you're human. Yeah, so he asked. He goes hey, and Michael read luckily was left handed, and

so he goes, hey, can I borrowed that club? And everybody goes, you swing left handed, and so everybody was like, oh, he's all messed up. So he goes to swing and everybody's like, maybe that was a practice swing and he missed the ball. And then like you know, he gets competitive and he wants to hit at the farthest and as you said, I think that's the one sport that we saw him as a human humanized. Not to compare the two, but you got a perfect chance to play

with both of them when they were great. Did you see that same fire and wanting to kill people the MJ had is at the same kind of How were their approaches similar or different? I think they were very similar. I think uh even the league as players, um, because Kobe that was the guy that he watched, you know, he would walk chew gum uh, then dressed socks that were at the same height. Um. And you know a lot of times you're labeled as the next Michael, Well

he was. He was really the next Michael Um. You know. And nothing against Harold Mine or anybody else like that, but they got the label of from the dunk contest or they were gonna be the next Michael A lot of times. That was the curse, um and and so. But when you talk about Kobe and the closest thing to to Michael is Kobe two thousand three finals, Stack the spurs? Are you brought it? You had to face the camera. That's tough. This is that was playing down. Yeah,

you don't have to dream out. He was frying us. It was frying us. So you were supposed to be in San Antonio after that we wanted when y'all talk about I wasn't there. I was I don't know what like this. Tony was done before the series because it was already talked about, you know what I mean. But you was frying using us. I was trying, um. But it's fine. Jack Speedy Clackson, he saved it because he don't want to keep up with him. He was doing Tony so bad. Bro and Tony had a bad year

because he had stiff he he got. But the finals we needed Speedy because we we went down bad without doing nothing down bad. No, but no one really talks about Speedy was big for you guys. Speed did an incredible job. But yeah, that ring, that was a nice ring. Um, you know, was get back that. I get it what you want. Um. But when you talk about the Spurs, we we gave six. We had it going in our direction.

We were winning and it was I think we're up thirteen or fifteen and the fourth and all we can think about is we just gotta get it to seven because if we get it to seven, there could be suffocation. It could be like the pressures on them. You know, they're at home. They were supposed to win this series and so um. But as everyone knows, we didn't get to seven. They wanted six and uh had Yeah, he was he was He was Shane. I don't know if he's human either, um, because Tim was just you know,

he was automatic. You can you can pin him in for for whatever, thirty fifteen, twenty and six blocks like like that'nceling in that. That's what he did. But for the players on the court, JA I ain't gonna lie for us. We were watching you and your powers, watching Tim and just and everybody was thinking, like just imagine them to, Like it was unbelievable just to watch yesterday. Have nightmares about that that that you know, that was this hard decision. But I thought loyal To was the

one to go. Stayed, stay in Jersey. Um, but um, I was loyal. It happens something, you know, obviously, Hall of Fame career, multiple time, ten time All Star, World champion. You weren't a great shooter to start your career, but then you closed on and when did that lock in? And and and you know you finished the number twelve

all time on the three point may list. Yeah, you know I think, Um, when you talk about different parts of the game, UM, I knew if I was ever around scores that that that's perfect for me because my job is to let them eat. So if to set the table, if stack you know Matt like, hey, my job is to figure out what you guys, where you like to score, right, you like to run, you like spot up shots, Then my job is the table setter, is to put you in those positions to be successful.

So when you talk about Carrie running throw it to him on the dead run. R J throw it to him on the dead run. UM being able to you know, understand Rex catch and shoot right. And so that that was I didn't have to worry about shooting because everyone else on the floor wanted to shoot and so to to know that. And then as the game slows down and as you get older, you gotta work on some parts if you want to stay around long enough. And so the corner three was something that I had to

work on if I wanted to play longer. UM. And so I spent more time UM on that part of my game to to make sure that I could stick around. And what year was that that you started trying to I want to say, oh oh oh, six oh seven, So maybe about ten eleven years in your care Yeah, I was. I was getting old. And uh and also I think you know when you talk about shooting, because I was always labeled as a nonshooter. Even til the

day I retired, I was a non shooter. And uh, you know, being with Dirk in Dallas, I said, look, you're gonna be double my guys coming to help. I will always be open. So if you can find me, I will be open. And guess what, I will throw it back to you. But but it's you know, I think you always have to pick apart every summer. As I talked about if you can get one percent better, and I think working on shooting just didn't happen overnight. You have to work on it on a continuous space asists. Uh,

when people aren't watching. You know, everybody wants to be recognized for working hard. Um, it's when you don't when people aren't watching you. When you're in the gym by yourself, when you're shooting the ball, you don't have a rebounder and you gotta go get it. You know, that's how we grew up. Yeah, well, unless you've got ten basketballs right there on the side, which we didn't have. So you know, you look at shooting by yourself, you gotta

go get your rebound right. And today's staff we got yea and two passers for each player, So now the player always has to worry about his shooting. So how do you imagine you know your misses right? How do you work on your misses better misses? Right? Um? A lot of times everyone looks at if you make it, that's great, But I look at it the other way. How bad did you miss? Can we give you a

point for hitting the back rim? Are you long? We'll take a point off if you're short, right, And because if it's short, never going in so that that That's just something that I always thought about as a pro. I had to work on my game. Um, as much as people said that I was good at other parts. Two thousand eleven loaded and to me, one of the most legendary runs. Considering the teams you guys knocked off on the way. Just to name a few guys, Marry

and Page story A compitts, Tyson Chander, Jason Terry. Remember Jason Terry hit ten three You guys swept us in the first round with the Lakers. J T hit ten threes in Game four in Dallas. You guys are crazy. You guys end up beating Miami's Big three in the finals. How special was that team? I was a great team. UM. I think keyword team. UM. We all accepted Dirk was our our best player. Jason Terry was our next best player. UM. When you talk about Tyson and myself, we talked about defense.

How can we help Dirk? How can we protect the guys that they were going to go after UM, and then it was just about making the right play, you know, not not worry about yourself who if you're if not open, get off of it. And so UM, it was a great team. We were close. We would go to dinners all the time on the road, UM, and we cared about one another. And I thought, UM, through tough times. You know that Miami series wasn't easy because we had

an opportunity. Game one, it got away from us and then we're down fifteen I think in game two, and there was a little shadow boxing in front of our bench that kind of piste us off and so UM from that point on, UM, we kind of were like, okay, they show bolt and so we we gotta we gotta make a thing. Turn it on. You just mentioned team Uh you that team alone held Lebron James the seventeen points a game in the finals. How did you guys collectively slow him down? That's a question he's gonna have

to answer. Uh. You know, I think, you know, for the game plan was just to give different looks um, and then throw different bodies, you know, and again someone who's not on that list, and we talk about d Steve Sean Stevens. Yeah, you know, he was here and so that that was you know, we had a lot of role players, including myself as a role player UM J J. Berrera. Guys weren't scared to take a charge or or be in the way or try to, you know,

do something, and I think that's what helped us. But we just try to make a tough on on Lebron. He's gonna score, he's gonna get his attempts, but you just can't give him freebes because if you give him free bees, that's where he can hurt join. Uh. Dirt was incredible during this run. Twenty points of games shot over from the three point line one. How special was

he during that run? But just to looking back on it, you got a chance to play with prime Dirk and you're coaching Luca who's still hasn't hit his prime, which is scary. Uh. Arguably two of the greatest European players ever do. But how special was Dirt? Ye Dirk was a warrior man and I think, um, and he's also funny. I know this is he he would wrap in German. Um. I don't know what he was saying, but he would say that he was rapping Um. But he had a

great personality off the court. I think everyone got to see him on the court. Um, and just you know, the fade away, the one dribble, hard dribble right bank. Um. But he worked on all that. He was a worker. He worked extremely hard on all the stuff that you saw in the game. UM. And so when you compare to two, Uh, Dirk will tell you that Lucas better than he is at the age of twenty three. You know, Dirk's very honest. He was like, I don't know if I was going to make it in the league when

I was young. Um. But when you look at what Lucas doing at twenty three is unbelievable. But Dirk changed the game. When you talk about being able to give space a big putting it on the floor, uh, one or two dribbles either way. And then again his shooting ability was off the charts. That unbelievable. Um. When you talk about a young man who would you know, do anything you asked him to do. He wanted to be great, and uh, I'm excited to see where he is today.

But he again is just starting to climb the mountain. He hasn't reached his full potential. Either yes, it is as a coach, but his work ethic is like no other. He works extremely hard Um during the season and off the season, and so uh to be able to be around honest when he he's still young but younger Um again his growth giving him the ball, Um, you know when I was there to help expand his game with something that we all thought would help us as a team,

but help him and he ran with it. But you know what's what's funny about um, the two players you've talked about, right, Luca and Honest. Um. For my young coaching career, I've had the opportunity to coach KG, Paul Pierce, uh Janice and now Luca uh And at the All Star Game in Cleveland for the seventy five UM, I got to have all three of well all of them

kind of standing by me. And Johannest tells us he brings up the story to Luca, like, hey, his coach making you run and I go, look, I go, Rannest, don't bring don't start talking about the things that I made you do and so and then and then Ticket, Oh my goodness, Ticket goes oh Man, coach used to

make us run so much. Training camp where Duke, He's making us dude, uh sprints and I'm like, okay, time ago, we gotta let's let's en this mean because Luca doesn't need to hear all the things that I made you guys, do Lucas not doing those things? No, um, real quick before we get to these quick hitters. Obviously, you know, Luca just want a championship back in his country. But he looked like chills chiseled and is the league ready for an n shape Luca? I hope, So, I hope,

so he's coming, He's coming. I think, uh, what we all saw, um, Luca's um taking you know, his body serious. And I think during the season, I think Reggie if someone made the comment that he thought he was too heavy, and what I love about Luca, uh, he never runs from opinions. And so when Reggie said that, uh, he worked on his body challenge and then he took off um. And so I think it just shows character that, um, he's never wanted to blame anybody. If if this is

someone's opinion that's gonna help him get better. I thought he absorbed it and then uh he used it in a positive What's rare for young players yes, Um, in your opinion, top five point guards of all time? Oh man, Okay, so we got like there's some guys who are label point guards, but they're not point guards. It's staff a point guard. Yes, oh okay, Okay, Oscar Robinson point guard, yes, Oscar definite point guard. Okay, all right, all right, So

I'm gonna go with Oscar. I'm gonna go with steph. Um, I'm GPS on there because its GPS. Not on that man call. He's gonna show up a knock on my door, g P, he's right down the street. Uh, let's look at John Stockton and then Magic Johnson. Hello. Five list five dinner guests, dead or alive? Well, I think one you mean starting? You mean if we were having dinner tonight, dead or alive, your dinner table plus five people. Okay. I was gonna start with my dad. Um, and let's see, Uh,

Obama would have to be there. I would go with Martin Luther King Junior would be I would have to have him there, and then um Bill Russell and then um, I want a young I need a younger player athlete. Uh. You know, maybe Colin Kaepernick would be there because in conversation when you talk about what Bill Russell stands for, uh not just you know we we sometimes we're just labeled athletes. But like when you look at that group, Um, they did more probably off the court than they did

on the court. So that's saying a lot. Yeah, so we can learn from that and I would love to hear their stories. One album you can listen to with no skips, oh the Chronic Good call, damn, A good call. Piece of advice you would give younger j kid, don't know your blond that keep your hair? Yeah, um, I would say listen, mm hmm, you gotta listen, don't don't

don't talk until the person is finished talking. But make sure that you're listening to what's being told because sometimes when you're young, you think you know it all, and when you're getting advice, you might you might miss something that could have helped you avoid a situation. Do you feel like ever looking back, Um, I was someone who football is my first sport. Do you ever look back and thought, I mean, with all the respect to baseball, that you really had a real shot if you would

have stuck with it to play professional baseball? Yeah, for sure, I would have to say yes, I would have. I truly believe that I had a talent to be able to play baseball. How far I would have gotten I don't know, but I would have done everything possible that I did in basketball to do there. Um, the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning, last thing you do when you go to bed before you go to guarantee you his answering gonna be the

same stackhouse. First thing I would do when I wake up. Uh, that's a great question. Um, I kind of do an exam of my body? What part is hurting today? What you stand out? Once I wake up and I go is this gonna be a good day? And then I go body exam? Is it my dis my lower back hurting? Is it my knee? Is it my neck? Them? So once it kind of goes through like oh we're all right there, We're all right there. Then it's like okay, then slide to the bathroom because if you play long enough,

you don't walk now the bathroom, just slide. So sometimes you hold the ball and all that I know today. Uh so so to say when I wake up, it's a it's a body check before you go to bed. Uh, go to bed? Um, you try to just reflect on what you did today, Um, and then you kind of think about what you're gonna do tomorrow. Before we go to last question, I want to bring your son and come in lover man, watch out the light so you

know not to light over. I don't know if he's an athlete, clear clear as being obviously, Uh Dad, head coach of an NBA team. How do you balance? I'm talking I want to talk to you first, pop. Check out his hat though, that's just clean, that's that's a that's a coach of sign. How do you how do you balance father? And kind of obviously you know he's he's he's the hooper now, so how do you balance not give him too much, given enough? Where is that

balance that as the father? That's a great question, Matt Um. We just had this conversation too with another friend of mine. Um, when you talk about the balance, because I I want to be Dad, Um. I don't want to be coach Um, but also I want because he might hear a lot of positivity of oh you're so good, you're so good, and I kind of come from the other side to balance it out, to balance it out. And so you haven't done anything you know, um, and he'll tell you

that I say that he was trash. But but the beauty is um that the most important thing is that he knows that I love him and I'm gonna do everything possible to help him achieve his goals. But he knows that I will talk trash to your dad's tough on you sometimes, like after a game, if I play bad, it's gonna be a long car at home. Do you ever have to tell him like that? That's enough? Who'll keep talking? Don't matter what you say? What about balls down to your dad's j kid? Though? What about? But

what about when you play good? Is it a good conversation the home? Right home? Depends? If I played too good, then trash talking. But but you know, but you know it comes from a loving place though, right to get you better? Just make me better? How old are you? You're going into seventh grade? What's your what's your goals? And basketball? Get better? Try to make it somewhere there you go. That's what I'm talking about, all right? Last question, go ahead, Jack, if you can see one guest and

all the smoke, who would it be? But before you answer, you have to help us get your answer on the show. It could be someone you coach, could be someone you coach, could be someone you coach, just calling him up, coach him up, breaking all kind of records. Early, he says he's differ friend. Oh that's easy man, you're talking about seventy seven. Yeah, we need seventy seven. Okay, we need seventy seven. Off, he's chill. He seems like it seems cool.

He saw him on JJ's podcast. No, he you know what, you get to see a different side, that's what we want to say. Yeah, I think he would fit perfectly in this seat. Love it alright, So that seas I know my homework, simple, got it. I took up for him one time on on on on one of the shows on Fox, and he had somebody to reach out to him and say appreciate it. So it's only right then, so he this night on me. But so this is

it's easierself. YEA, got it, got it, got his back, We got his back, and I can pass the ball. So I'm a paste the greatest, So I'll get it. I'll get the ball back to you guys man, J. We appreciate you. Man, graduation, all the success, best to luck next see us in Uh make the team not serving him. We're serving him. That was giving me the ball every time. I don't like me saying that, they're saying, we got footage. Man. We appreciate you. Best to luck,

continue to move forward. Best to luck to you a little man. You can catch this episode Jason kidd On All the Smoke, Showtime Basketball YouTube, and the I Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see y'all next week