Alicyn
Welcome to Alison's Wonderland. I'm your host, Alicyn Packard. Join us as we journey through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole into the wild and wonderful world of animation and video games.
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Hey guys, what is up? Happy Wonderland Wednesday! Are you ready to do this? Oh my god. I'm so excited for tonight's show. It's been it's been a while I know we were off last week, I was in Dublin. I was a bit of a whirlwind trip. It was my birthday and I so appreciated all the amazing love that you guys sent me - the videos, the pictures. That was so awesome. And I felt so loved. So thank you everybody that wish me happy birthday last week. I appreciate it.
And tonight is a very special show because our guest is Tom Ruger animation legend, been working in animation for over four decades. As a writer, a producer, a show creator, executive producer, composer, you name it, he's had his fingers in that pot.
And Tom is super inspiring to me. We originally had him scheduled I think about five weeks ago and had to reschedule. So today's the big day, and I'm so excited. I want to say hey, thank you to everyone that's joining in live. Payton, hey, Nika! So good to see you on here. Baku, nice to see you. Chris Brown, always appreciate your support. Hey, Sebastian, thank you for the birthday. Love. Blue Eyes. How's it going? Alex, how are you hunter? Sam, thanks for joining. Hey Jeffrey, how's it going?
So happy to see all you guys on here. Now as you guys know, this is a reschedule. So we're so lucky that Tom is able to come back on the show and let me see if he's on here. No, not quite yet. I'm going to be -
Oh, Hunter. That is too sweet. Debbie! How's it going? Are we talking cartoons tonight? We're talking a bunch of cartoons tonight. So I'm so excited. Hey, Tamar. It's so good to see you. So good to see your faces. Let me just see if Tom is here. Is hehere yet? Maybe I should have texted him. But that's what iPads are for.
How are you guys? Why don't you go ahead and type one word in and let me know how you're doing. How are you feeling tonight? Are you happy? Are you glad that we're all back on again? It's so funny. Hunter that you just said Sam I am Peyton. Thank you. You said Sam I Am and actually Tom has I don't know if you guys have seen it, but a collaboration that's a bit of an ode to Dr. Seuss that he did with Mark Hamill called Will You Wear a Mask and it's like an audio book thing so you guys should check that out.
I know I'm also so glad because that was one of the shows I was really looking forward to. When I was growing up he did so many of my favorite shows. Tiny Tunes Adventures was definitely one of my favorite shows.
Animaniacs and then Disney 7D's totally solid. There's so many amazing shows that he's been a part of. So we're gonna dive into the process of creativity and and what it is working on so many different avenues and aspects of animation.
A lot of people focus on one particular area, whether that's producing or whether that's writing and Tom has really... reminds me a bit of Walt Disney in the way that he has brought forth so much content and so much good vibes to the world.
So Tom, I see that you are here. Let's go ahead and do this. You guys put your hands together here. I know it's gonna zoom way in. Do you guys like my flowers, by the way? Hi!
Tom
Hey, Alicyn.
Alicyn
How are you?
Tom
Just great. Yourself?
Alicyn
So good. I'm so excited for this interview. Thank you for joining us.
Tom
I'm very excited to be here. And hello, everyone out there. And isn't she a great host?
Alicyn
Lala lala lala! I played a little... the Pinky and The Brain theme song is my music bed so hopefully we don't get sued. Maybe we should edit that out? Yeah, it's so good to see you. How was your day?
Tom
Very good. busy. Yeah, where we were... my wife and I went to a trip to national parks. So we're still recovering from the hiking but it's been great.
Alicyn
Well at least you're both alive. It's amazing because I'm also like a huge fan of the national parks and just being out in nature. And I was wondering, is that something that's really important to you guys?
Tom
We hike a lot and we went on some hikes that I will never go on again and I cursed the mountains that made those hikes happen but got to the top and then I cursed them and then I went down there very difficult. But everyone, please make sure you see the Grand Tetons in your lifetime. They are fantastic. See the geysers in Yellowstone. Incredible.
Alicyn
Yeah, and actually, if you're coming from LA, Veilleux has a $45 one way flights that we got on. Can't beat that.
Tom
Yeah, you can't.
Alicyn
Yay. It's so good to have you here. And I'm sure your schedule keeps you super busy. So I appreciate you carving out time for this interview.
Tom
It's a pleasure. You're busy in the voice over world. Boy, I've met a lot of great actors over the years. And we could maybe talk about some of them at some point.
Alicyn
Well, we had Rob Paulson on the show a couple months ago.
Tom
Yep, he's really incredible. He's one of the greats of our time for sure. I started years ago and I worked with Daws Butler and Don Messick and some of those other great voices from the past. I grew up with Messick and Butler doing a Yogi and Huck quickdraw. All those characters and booboo and after the dream come true.
John, Luke and I were given the assignment ay Hanna Barbera to do something called Yogi's Treasure Hunt. And we piled it with all those characters, Tom Cat, Arnold Stank. And, and Dastardly with Paul Winchell.
And our office was right at the in reception is right next to reception. So all the actors, whenever they were coming in Hanna Barbera, they would go right by our office. And so we would flag them down sometimes and say, Hey, did you see we just wrote the script that you're going to go do. And Daws and Don and Paul Winchell on occasion, after the sessions, they would come in and they would critique our work and they would give us suggestions. Tweak the characters because Messick and Daws knew the characters backwards and forwards. So a lot of fun.
Alicyn
So they even knew the characters better than you guys.
Tom
Oh, definitely! They've been living with those characters for 20 years while we were we children. But yeah.
Alicyn
And so what were you like as a kid? Were you huge animation nerd like most of us here?
Tom
Yeah, I would lay down on the carpet with a pad in front of me, crayon pencils, and watch the TV right there. And so I would draw the characters as they were on there. And really where I got really interested. So I would draw Huck and Yogi and all those characters, some Disney characters when they were on. And my parents saw that I was busy with this, but they thought I was tracing it and I wasn't I said, I didn't trace it. Just saw it on TV. So they kept giving me more pads and more crayons.
Alicyn
And you grew up in Jersey, right?
Tom
I did. I did. Metuchen, Jersey.
Alicyn
East coast represent!
Tom
Yeah. And it was a great childhood. I had two older brothers, we had great neighbors. Our neighborhood was all of our generation. So we would play softball and basketball and football. No matter what the season was. We had something to do. And yeah, it was a wonderful small town experience. My parents lived in Metuchen from the day they were born to the day they died. So they were both there for...
Alicyn
How old were they?
Tom
Dad for 80 years. My mom for 93.
Alicyn
Were they high school sweethearts or something?
Tom
They knew each other in kindergarten. And they they were highschool sweethearts there were. There was a guy came up to me said, Well, I hate your dad. And I said, Why do you hate him? Why he was one of the guys that grew up. He dated his mother and I really liked her.
Alicyn
So it sounds like you grew up in a family with a lot of love and support.
Tom
Yeah, my dad and my dad had a great sense of humor. And my mom was very encouraging for all to pursue my artistic. I think my dad thought I should go into law or something to that effect. This cartoon business can't possibly work. And after college, I made a little film in college.
And after college, I went back to New Jersey and I worked for my brother in construction. And I kept falling off roofs because I'd be carrying shingles up a ladder and I'd be thinking about cartoon stuff in my head. And I'd walk up the roof and gravity didn't work like it doesn't cartoon I got really messed up one time. I fell on a whole bunch of pots and I realized that the next day I realized I got to get a car and drive to Los Angeles and try to get a gig out there.
Alicyn
Did any of those gags work their way into your cartoons like guy roofing on ladder?
Tom
Oh, as all the Bugs Bunny cartoon, Elmer walks, runs off the cliff and hangs there have been no i did not hang a beat at all. So yeah, but I will tell you this that everything I've learned and grew up with and absorbed, from my childhood through high school years through college years, there are elements of all those moments that are in a lot of the cartoons that I've been involved with.
I had a song that I wrote for Russian literature I was taking a Russian literature class in senior year in high school. And I use the poem that I wrote and I wrote that it was called Russian names you have a game there's a first and the last the middle name giving the first name as the mom is true like Boris Alexander respired. Your last name comes from a family like Pushkin bubble Robert porphyry with the middle name here comes the fun part because his last name to this son his first name to the son then as an oversea image to the again here's an example so you would comprehend it.
Papa's name is son of now here's the switch the kids middle name is a son of a bitch. So I wrote that in high school, and as you can see, some things don't you never forget. So then I was doing years later I was doing Road Rovers and I had Kevin Michael Richardson playing this Russian wolf, a Russian Husky and someone and an interrogator asks him his name. And he goes through that whole thing. It has a problem and we it aired once. And parents complained about the son of a bitch at the end and it was edited.
Alicyn
Did you give your high school self residuals on that year?
Tom
I hope I did.
Alicyn
That's amazing to think about that you were like working at that level in high school and your teachers must have just been blown away.
Tom
Oh, I think they were just annoyed by me a lot. We did in high school we have a couple pals of mine, Alan Banach and Kenny Hollenbeck and I would make for clap for it rather than write essays we would do we would create radio plays where we would do voices as and we one time we actually have seen it here we actually made us film in sync with sound and dialogue and everything we got we got at the Jewish community center in town let us use the stage on Friday afternoon we created the Tonight Show with with the guests from America they were great characters from American literature.
And so we made that film I have that somewhere I've never been able to sync it up as well but I did in college we studied so many different things but Paradise Lost by Milton and on that one I, rather than know the book well which was impossible isn't a tough I wrote for my SN for my final paper on that I wrote I turned it into a Hollywood musical.
Alicyn
No way.
Tom
Yeah, and and I use California here I come as purgatory here we come. I end up hating devil glum was fired fire into the night? Well, boulders will smolder sizzling bright God It has cooled politics sends us to the River Styx claims will be our crucifix. So purgatory, here we come.
Alicyn
Oh, my God.
Tom
But again, things stuck in your head that I use them for Animaniacs where they go to see Satan, Yakko Wakko and dot and they sing him that song. Nothing is wasted. Nothing. Nothing.
Alicyn
Wow, Word to the wise start creating early. And keep at it.
Tom
I tell my kids that. I tell anyone. If you have ideas, write them down now. And and maybe you don't do them, maybe you don't expand on them. But do write them down and have a book with all your thoughts like that. And because I'm constantly going back to things that I haven't completed, that I think this is really pretty good. I should try to wrap this up.
Alicyn
And so when you go to -when you went to college, did you try to get a degree in animation or was that even a thing or?
I went to a place called Dartmouth College and that was that was, you know, BA, bachelor's degree. And it was you learn a lot about a lot of different things. But I was an English major because they didn't have a film degree. They had a film studies program. So I used that.
And you made a movie when you were there platypus...?
Tom
You can see it online. I think it might be on my...
Alicyn
Your blog?
Tom
Youtube. I have a thing called Cartoonatics. And I think you can find it there. And it's 11 minutes and it's it's not the greatest print. And it's just I there was a grant being offered like $3,000 to help finance a movie I probably needed about 50 and I did it for three... Took me two years and it ruined my life for two years.
So I don't really recommend everyone to say I'm going to make an 11 minute cartoon that's gonna be really well animated. It's honestly, just a tremendous amount of work. And so be careful, but make short things to show off your skills, and then go get a job and have someone pay more to make an Opus.
Alicyn
The technology shifted. So it's so much easier now Wouldn't it be just for someone to make an 11 minute in Flash or even a stop motion or something?
Tom
I think you could. This was like, a lot of cel animation and painting and loud thinking, Oh, my God. Learn how to do that. I if you see, you'll see I didn't? I did. This is not right. Because there's three things that you can say, why isn't that quite working? Because I learned when I went to Hanna Barbera A few years later is that you did well I should have known as you do the extremes you did the gesture that the guys pitched in the volume, you do the way back, hold back.
And then the next drawing is probably that the animator is doing as the release of the ball. And then the assistant animator is doing all these in betweens.
Alicyn
Yeah.
Tom
I was doing. Unfortunately, I was doing this right. And then this drug and this drug and this drug, and that's that slows up your animation. That's gonna make it kind of language, you lose the snap when you're doing it in order like, interesting. Yeah, the timing doesn't work out again.
When I went to Hanna Barbera after college, and that's really where I learned and they were How about that? I don't know if that's true nowadays, for animation studios to hire people that really don't know, hardly anything. And that was me. Of course, out here now we have a lot of people that have gone to Cal Arts and they do know a lot. So that's that's very exciting.
Alicyn
And so you were back in Jersey falling off rubes.
Tom
Yes.
Alicyn
And how did you transition? How did you get out here? Did you come out with a job or figured out when you got here,
Tom
I wanted to get a job. I heard that back she was making Lord of the Rings. And those of you who remember back then he made a version of Lord of the Rings that was almost all wrote a scope. That was pretty, it wasn't great. But I thought there were still openings. I got a car. I drove out here in three days. And I call it back sheet and there's a drop off group portfolio.
And I got there and they say, "So Ralph's gone for two weeks, so he can't get to it 'til then." And so I'm like, Oh my God. And I really didn't have two weeks of money left. So I started calling I call it Chuck Giada caught up every studio I can find on the different studios.
So I call up Hanna Barbera. And they said, Who would you like to speak with? And I didn't know I said Bill Hanna. And so they connect me to Bill Hanna's office. And they so he's not in at the moment, can I take a message and so I'm Tom Ruegger, I'm from New Jersey, I'm an animator, I lied. And I'm looking for work. And they said, Let me get your number, if he wants to talk to you, and he'll call you back. And I was in a phone booth outside of my motel on Sunset Boulevard.
Alicyn
Oh my god.
Tom
Which and we didn't have I didn't have a phone in the room. And the rooms are static. And it's a phone booth that is completely dominated by but what would you say to women who night women of the night, I'll say that? And they're like, banging on? Hey, hurry it up. I'm expecting a call. So I give them I give her a secretary, the phone number of the booth. And I said, okay, but then I leave the book. I said, Listen, there's a call I could come in. So I'll be over in room 17?
And so an hour later on room 17. And it's one of these generous women and she said, Are you Ruegger? And I said, Yeah, oh, there's a phone call for you hurry up. I'm expecting a call. So I rush out to the booth. And yes, this is Tom and hold for Bill Hanna. And he gets on the line. I said, Yeah, is this Ruegger?
I said, Yes, sir. Get right over here. We're really busy. And he hangs up. He didn't even give me the address to get right over here. We're really busy. That was that.
Alicyn
He thought Wow, he's got such a nice secretary.
Tom
I know what a great secretary.
Alicyn
I'll get someone answering his phones. This guy was me.
Tom
Yeah, she got me right away. So I drove I got lost, but I drove over to Hanna Barbera. When I left my portfolio at back she's so all I had was a set of slides. So they'll have hold any sleds up against the window go up or the sun. What the hell is that? That's a drawing of a dog. Not a drop. It's not a dog where I come from. Anyway, he gave a one month trial period. And that's how I got my start in the business. He, he... and I survived it. I survided it.
Alicyn
Was it an entry-level but paid job?
Tom
Yeah, it was in between... On the first day I was inbetweening on a show called Godzilla Power Hour. And we were drawing Godzilla with like, pencils that were this thick. Their lead was like this thick because the Godzilla outline needed to be really thick. And they didn't Xerox well, because the Xerox breaks down on the black line is so fixated, they had to ink it, it was a mess.
Alicyn
Or we could go to the inserts on the show and be like this, show an example?
Tom
Well there's some of that looks like you met shuffle, Jenna of the jungle, actually very much like you. That was the fun part of the show. You said, Can I have a Jenna of the jungle sequence? Because there's this beautiful running through the jungle and said you got Godzilla? So anyone that had a life drawing class, and I'd had a couple if you have like that, yeah. All right, you can do some job.
Alicyn
Wow, that's pretty amazing. Was Jenny McSwain the receptionist then or?
Tom
No, I think she already in voiceover
Alicyn
She was already directing at that point?
Tom
I don't think she was directing. I think she might have been Gordon Hunt's assistant at that point.
Alicyn
Ah. That's so funny. Wow. And so from there, you know, obviously we're working on a lot of shows that were pre existing. How do you... How did you come into shows that that were already ongoing shows like Scooby Doo and and then how did you learn to adapt to their pre existing production?
Tom
Yeah. Yeah, I like, my sample piece to get into filmation for writing was a was a dog cartoon I wrote about a suicidal dog whose girlfriend broke up with him and his friend, another dog... is, tries to save him from each of his suicide attempts and gets cream in the bargain.
So it's like almost a reverse wily coyote where rather than catching he's trying to save. And so that was my, my, my intro for writing at Filmation. They said, We can't really do this cartoon, Tom, because it's about suicide.
And we don't think that kids will really get into that. And not even crossed your mind. It was funny though, because he was just getting crammed in it. And then the next scene, he was fine. I guess it wasn't funny, I think because the little guy is called Pits and his pal.
I love the dog stuff. So what a Hanna Barbera when they had a Huck Huckleberry Hound assignment or they had Pound Puppies or Scooby, they tend to throw the dogs at me. And but my first week at Hanna Barbera. The second time when I'm now in the writing department working under Joe Barbera and Margaret Loesch.
I was roomed - rooming with a guy named Hank Saroyan and great guy he ultimately wasn't producer on the original Muppet Babies, very talented. He was the Scooby Doo story editor.
And I was and the place was so busy I was rooming with him and he said. "How would you like to be thScooby Doo story editor?" I said, "What do you mean, you're the - you're the story editor?" Yeah, I can't, I'm going out of my mind. I got to do something else.
And I've never seen Scooby Doo at this is 1982 and I still... he had done it for 13 years. And I but I just just was out of my This wasn't what I'm doing now. I was serious with the Warner Brothers and the Looney Tunes. And so I took home every Scooby Doo. They were three quarter inch big clunky things big three quarter inch machine and took it home that weekend, watched every Scooby Doo I can find, took notes.
And on Monday, I became the Scooby Doo story editor without ever having - isn't that that's proof? I think talk about timing and luck and good fortune and just like right play pair. I'm rooming with a guy that is the story editor. And unlike today where the story editor of Scooby Doo is probably very happy being the story. He's: "No! I got to do something else!"
Alicyn
Wow. Amazing.
Tom
Yeah.
Alicyn
Jinkies!
Tom
Jinkies is right.
Alicyn
Jinkies, it's a crazy story! But it's always that thing of you had to be talented to get the -luck came about but you had to be talented to keep the job so...
Tom
Well, yes, but the luck is so important. It's just also reading the room. When I went to Hanna Barbera for an interview for this position because they needed writers. I was escorted into this as I had met Bill Hanna the first time now this is for writing. So I'm escorted into Joe Barbera.
Alicyn
And he's sitting there and he's truly done choreography. He's in a dark room. He's wearing a beautiful suit. You almost wanted to kiss his ring. So you sit down Hi Mr. Barrett's apartment. ami Joe. And okay Joe and I. So I hear that you're want to maybe do some writing here as well. Let me tell you about this cartoon I'm working on.
Tom
And Joe Barbera proceeds to tell me for a half an hour I detail but shot by shot frame by frame story about Yogi Bear in Jellystone Park and it sounds familiar. The story sounds familiar, but I was thinking and then suddenly a school bus a kid comes by all the little kids look out the window and they go look at the bears. Look at the bears. Look at the bears.
And Yogi's like, Hey BooBoo, I can't stand this any longer. I gotta get out of here. I can't stand these kids looking at me and then look at the bears. So he tells me and it's a half an hour and I'm like, yeah, and at the end of it he says so what do you think? What do you think about what do you think about this? That's good. It's funny. So okay, your hired.
I don't know that's what that's reading the room as I if I had said that was stupid, or if I had said I've heard it before, maybe something else but I went along with it. I chuckled and but I stayed there for decades.
Alicyn
And you worked on Snorks, too, right?
Tom
Snorks, yeah, all star and he had the star on his chest.
Alicyn
Aww.
Tom
That was very smurfy.
Alicyn
Very smurfy. But yeah, followed Smurfs. I think on Saturday mornings I remember that from when I was...
Tom
Underwater.
Alicyn
Yeah. And your firstly if I if I'm correct, your first producing credit was A Pup Named Scooby Doo, is that right?
Tom
Yeah, I did associate producer on 13 Ghosts. Mitch Sauer was the producer and I help but yeah, my first one. The first show that I really developed as an original was A Pup Named Scooby Doo.
Alicyn
My son and I were just watching the first episode today...
Tom
A Bicycle Built for Boo.
Alicyn
Hey guys, this is Alicyn Packard. Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to let you know that if you like the show, please, please, please remember to subscribe to this podcast. And leave us a review on iTunes. It really helps us to get heard by more people. Thanks so much.
It was so fun. Yeah, I was there. There was... Yeah. So when you came into that show, Scooby Doo had already been airing for 20 years. How did you did they approach you with this idea? Or did you approach them with this idea of kind of yanking them down and doing I guess the prequels? Would you call them prequels?
Tom
We have been making I've been working for ABC for a number of years and I think I just worked on Pound Puppies for them. They liked me and we I like them and Scooby have been off for a year which was like Hanna-Barbera was not pleased about Scooby. And they were encouraging me to you know, get something else going on Scooby and ABC was interested.
So I worked with Scott Jeralds and Alfred d'amato to come up with some younger designs. And we sold them on really the designs and the idea that these kids came togethe. They're always concerned about kid relatability back then on the networks. That was one of the reasons they had a guy named a character named Slim Slim added to the team on the 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo.
They wanted a kid, so rather than go through that ordeal again I said this is let's just make them kids and then we'll they won't have any problems. So I thought that show was a lot of fun. It was it had a lot of tech savory type of wild takes with their eyes popping out which I loved that when we had a great crew working on it.
Alicyn
And did you feel at any point you did there was like a turning point in your career? And if so what was it?
Tom
It was right around them. That was with a Putnam Scooby Doo or I was given sort of the keys to the car and allowed to drive Scooby off a cliff. And it was successful on the show had good ratings, people liked it. And it was the first Scooby show, the first iteration of Scooby that was nominated for an Emmy.
Alicyn
Boom!
Tom
So I was still on something else. So now my boss, Hanna-Barbera Jean McCurdy had left at that point, she was working at Warner Brothers. And she one day she called up and said can you send me a copy of your favorite Scooby the one you think is best? So I did. I didn't know what she wanted it for.
And I was busy with stuff. I look. Yeah, sure, here. And so she comes back to me a few days later, I meet her at some restaurant in Burbank at 6pm. I showed it to Steven Spielberg. What are you talking about when I showed it to Steven Spielberg and we at Warner Brothers, Bob Daley, Terry Semel, and I met with Steven and he wants to do something called Tiny Tunes.
And I suggested you as the producer, and I showed him the tape. And he said, Yeah, that sounds good. I'd to try him. So that's what. So they said, So will you quit Hanna Barbera to come do this with Steven? And I said that the let me out. Yeah. And they did.
Alicyn
What did you what were what was going through your mind at that time? Do you remember how like you were feeling about that?
Tom
I was very excited. I was totally. And then a week later, I'm gonna have my first meeting with Stephen. And I spent the whole week basically creating tiny tune because he said it's tiny Tim's. But that was it. We don't look it couldn't be the children of the Looney Tunes because there are too many licensees of Looney Tunes. And it would this is true. Warner Brothers didn't want to share the licensees of Looney Tunes with Steven. Because tiny tunes was a split down the middle deal. Half goes to Steven half goes to Warner Brothers, it needed to be characters that were not related to the Looney Tunes.
Alicyn
I totally always thought they were.
Tom
Yeah, but they're basically miniature versions of them. But if you'll notice, they never say, oh, you're my dad, or you're my uncle, or it's just they're the teachers at Acme University. So I spent the week coming up with that university and all the different aspects and the characters and their names, which the names were a nightmare, because legal, but I got involved in all the names.
And so I was ready to go pitch this thing to Mr. Spielberg. And I remember it was like 10am and I had to leave. And the meeting was at 11am across town, and I was at home and my wife and I literally I think what you'd call this, I had a nervous breakdown. I'm like, wait a minute, I had this job at Hanna Barbera. It was really good. I was popular. They liked me. And I just quit to go work with Spielberg. But what if he hates my guts? And what have I done?
And but my wife, thankfully, she said, Just chill. And just tell him about your favorite cartoons. And I don't know why that worked. But it really did. And I did I went to the meeting and I told them about my favorite cartoons which were the Looney Tunes of the past. I loved Bugs, Daffy, Porky. I love those cartoons growing up. I love them.
Now I was trying to emulate them wherever I could. So I did I went into the meeting I said, All right, you Tiny Toon Adventures, your Tiny Toons. I didn't call it adventure. And I said, we're going to try and do our very best to make more seven minute shorts in the tradition of the zaniness and the irreverence on the Looney Tunes. And I talked about the characters that I liked, and you know why they were great.
And he was totally, he was just like, he was like a kid. Yeah, those are my favorite cartoons, too! And yeah, remember one of the big music. So it really was a we mind melded right there. And it was a great meeting.
Alicyn
Wow. And it was originally Tiny Toons like to you and...
Tom
So the first picture that was Mitch shower, the guy that had produced on 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo, drew for before ever showed up a picture of who would become Buster Bunny, if it was tiny t-u-n-e-s, and which goes with Looney Toons. That's how they spell it to you as to but by then Steven had created Toontown. So t-o-n took over. So it was called Tiny Tunes, which we love.
And but then, Steven got it in his head that he wanted the show to be adventures he thought. I think it'd be better if we call it Tiny Tunes Adventures, because then the kids will think it's adventure. Just not a bunch of nonsense. And okay.
Alicyn
Amazing. Amazing. And so then, so Tiny Toons goes on to become huge success. I'm sorry?
Tom
It worked out.
Alicyn
Yeah, you can you can say it worked out. And then how did you conceive the idea for Animaniacs? How did that show come about?
Tom
With the success with Tiny Toons, MacCurdy and Spielberg came to me after, it was clear Tiny Tunes was a hit. And they said, okay, what's next?
Alicyn
Just like an animated X-ray.
Tom
I had not been thinking about what's next much. I really hadn't. I just knew that. For all of us for all the people that were on it Rich Aarons and Sherry Stoner and a lot of the other people who were about cooked on time. It seems we had made a lot of them. And we already made the second season. So we're close to 100 of those and we wanted to do something new. And Steven said, Well, why don't we just do a spin off of Tiny Toons with ducks? And I said, Oh, no, please not that we don't want it. I asked him, like,
Alicyn
After two hours of torture in college, you were like, "Never again!"
Tom
No more ducks, please no more ducks. And that's right. And yeah, it really does take a long time. And all of a sudden, so I had some new ideas and a bunch of different and we had a great crew of creative people to come up with great stuff to let us come up with a brand new show, which we'll call Animaniacs.
And he said, it has to have a marquee name. And I saw your the marquee name, Steven Spielberg presents I saw the marquee. He said, No, the show itself has to have a marquee name, or I want to go with Bucky Duck. Oh my god, no, stop. We have these great ideas, but we don't have a marquee name. So I'm walking across the lot A few days later. And there's this water tower on the line with the web logo on it. And I had what I like to call a cartoon epiphany.
Alicyn
Yeah. Wonder what that was like?
Tom
So the marquee, I see the water tower is a marquee it has the WB on it. And some suddenly, these things fell into place where the lead characters the zany characters that we wanted to start in the show, I can have them living in the water tower, and they can be called the Warner Brothers and ultimately their sisters. And that, so we went to the Warner Brothers Estate, and we got them to Okay, us using the rights to the Warner brother family name.
And then we went to Steve, when we said, I said, Okay, here's your marquee, and is the water tower, and I had artwork, and we opened up the ward Turner living inside. And he laughed, and he appreciated the fact that I'd gone to so much trouble to give him his marquee name. And so he completely bought it.
Alicyn
Yeah, like...
Tom
And then yeah, it definitely was satisfying. But we did pitch a whole batch of things to Steve and we went to his house on a Saturday morning Sherry and Deanna and McCarran offered to Manoa and he had all the characters we had like stand up and they're just like pretty good sized stand ups.
And so we had a bunch of franchises including Slappy and Skippy and Pinky & The Brain of the Warner Mini and Buttons and some others that were cut they didn't make the cut but the Pinky & the Brain pitch... I literally this is all I said: these are lab mice this guy's really smart this guy's an idiot and they they're planning every night to take over the world that's their bit.
That's what they're doing every night and their main and their theme song is this and so then I sang the theme song but I had not we didn't have the music yet, I say it and it's the same lyrics as the ultimate theme song but I sang it to the tune of Singing in the Rain, which is what that's playing.
Pinky and the Brain, one is a genius the others insane. They're laboratory mice, their genes have been spliced, Pinky and the Brain. He was just like this is then hes goes: "Sold!" Yeah, so it sold.
Alicyn
What a legendary story. You lived such a brilliant life. I feel like we could talk for hours. This is a throwback but our very very first the very first episode of this show I ever did this started as a web series in 2009. Our my very first interview was Earl Kress.
Tom
Oh I love Earl Kress! Now Earl Kress, Yogi's Treasure. I worked with Earl Kress. He did a lot of Animaniacs, Pink and the Brain, Tiny Toons, great guy, Earl Kress.
Alicyn
You know, and it didn't continue. It started and stopped. So this is the reboot version. Much like many of the reboots here
Tom
You've been doing this for 12 years then, huh?
Alicyn
Yes, mostly off.
Tom
Okay.
Alicyn
But we're on. Hey, if I had never stopped I'd be like a real famous Youtuber by now guys.
Tom
Just tell us if you have a moment about your trip to Dublin.
Alicyn
Oh my god, it was amazing. So there's a an event out there called the VO Euro Retreat. And it's for a select group of voice actors that are really looking to take their career to the next level. And Daniel Ross was going to be that comrade of mine. He was going to speak on character animation and video games and had to unfortunately cancel at the last minute.
I have recently done a podcast with the host and they they reached out to me Coming in last minute to Phil Daniels very big Donald shape shoes. So I said yes when I had to put some things on hold, but it was yes to a great adventure. And we were basically staying in this like, castle is not a castle because the castle has Tourette's. This does not have Tourette's. But it was like being in the beasts, like management like they had all the urns from being Ming Dynasty urns.
And like the paintings are like, Is that a real put you up? Yeah, that's where the whole thing was, oh, at this place called the the K club in Kildare, which is where they had the Ryder Cup 92 or some 80 things. So it was it. Got a little cricket there. So it was an amazing experience. Yeah.
Tom
And how did you have to give a presentation or a speech or answer questions or what?
Alicyn
Yeah, I did three presentations on doing a general talk about character acting, techniques for finding character different acting techniques, a general overview about the difference between animation VO versus video game Bo and not two and a half hour ago and everybody there was fully vaxxed, which
Tom
That's great.
Alicyn
Appreciate.
Tom
Well, that's great.
Alicyn
Oh, yeah, this is probably a good opportunity to talk about your collaboration with Mark Hamill you did. Can you tell us about the Will You Wear a Mask project?
Tom
Will You Wear A Mask, I wrote it I finished it like August last year. And this is when people were this was fairly early in though I wear a mask or not. And so I put it on online as a little book like a Kindle book or something. And my friend over at Disney, Emily Hearts called me and said, You need to get someone to record this and put it online so people can enjoy it as well and easy, watching listening experience.
Alicyn
And I said you're right, Emily. But Mark, Mark him for something. I thought Mark Hamill can handle this three or four voices that are involved and he has his authority. But he also has a sense of fun. I sent it to Mark because he had done some Batman stuff for us years ago. And he said oh Tommy and I you got to go through my agent, come on man.
And I said you're right mark, I'm sorry. I go to the agent. Then five minutes later. He calls me back. No, I just read it. We're gonna do it. And so he calls his agent says let's make this happen. everybody involved in this, including Marc contract He who has voiceover a studio in Burbank and mark and Kelly ward, who directed everybody did it for gratis.
Oh, I love Kelly ward.
Tom
Oh Kelly Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he thinks you're great too. Anyway, it didn't cost a lot to make it we put it out there and everyone that we encourage everyone to donate to World Central Kitchen. And so anyone who bought the book with all that money went to world Central Kitchen anyone who supported it anyway.
Alicyn
So asking if there's time for a sequel about vaccinations?
Tom
I know what was it I had the title to something about it you really need to get a shot a lot.
Alicyn
Well, I know. Gosh, this time is just flying by and I have so many questions that I'm so curious to pick your brain on but I need to be selective so let me just think I am very curious about how becoming a father influenced your creativity and your work in animation because I know for me it was a big shift but I've also talked to people to say it was Yeah, it was just part of my life and was that a big shift for you or?
Tom
I think I think it was really crucial for me because I'm making programs for children and what better than knowledge I learned of just being with these kids? I'm from three sons so having three sons it felt like deja vu all over. you have to get Kevin Michael Richardson on here and have him do his my three sons impressions. Really, you do.
Alicyn
I know. I'm gonna reach out to him this week, actually.
Tom
Because he's my maybe my favorite of all the guys I've worked with. I love tress macneille a lot and but Kevin is such a wonderful man and he be great to be on your show. Yeah, so the kids became my audience. I mean, my three sons once they hit an age where they could be articulate and react to the cartoons. I would know if it's working or not.
I know that I did a Yogi's Treasure hhunt where I named the kids in the episode Nathan and Luke, my first two sons. And I had them battling our guys with battling something called the greed monster and the character of Nate was became the greed monster and my son. I can tell you hated that episode. He hated it!
Yeah, Why would you do that?
And there was another time where Nathan was coming at me I had made doing voiceover on for Skippy squirrel, and Skippy, who was Slappy squirrels nephew. And he was playing it was called soccer coach, Coach, Slappy and Skippy kept getting hit in the head with the soccer ball. And then wailing just but it made his head was like a magnet for the soccer ball. So they put him in the goalie.
So every time they kick the ball and hit his head, he would, they wouldn't score and he was the winner as the best goalie, but he would cry every time he got hit in the head and started getting notes. I don't think so this could be either.
So my eight year old son is giving the Writer Producer notes on the character.
Alicyn
Did you take notes?
Tom
I said, I don't know how to get around this skipping tonight. Yeah, he didn't want to keep crying all the time. He wanted to skip it have other reactions, which I think is pretty smart. Because at some point, you stop crying and you take care of business.
Alicyn
Yeah. Is it the rule of three? Yeah, wow. Yeah. And so they did become a bigger part and your sons have worked.
Tom
I dragged in all three of them with playing big, fat baby on hysteria. And he and he played on Animaniacs he did the voice of something called the flame and the flame told stories about midnight, right a polar bear. And the youngest, Cody became the voice of Bluebird. He sang the 12 Days of Christmas.
He actually came home one day Cody did from school. They said I got a new song for you. I said, Okay, and he said, singing the 12 Days of Christmas on the 12th day of Christmas, but you like it to me? Well, turtle does 11 Turtle dubs, 10. Turtle. So five, turtle, those four turtle those three, and one by chantek kingside, turtle dove. So the next day, I brought him to the studio and recorded it and we put that on Animaniacs.
And then just completely wrapped last year, Rob and Rob Paulson and ready to go, we're doing a show in New York. And Cody, Bluebird back then he lives in New York. He's a lawyer there. And so he joined them on stage. And he did 20 years later, he's saying that song to the audience.
Alicyn
What a magical life! What a magical world! Awww! So I know a lot of people are me, for sure are inspired by what you've created. And I just started reading this new book, which is called Shipping Creative Work by Seth Godin. And a lot of people talk about this about how if you wait for inspiration to strike it, that you're too consistent to make progress in your, your field of creativity. So I'm curious to hear about your process.
And obviously you've had these moments of divine inspiration, as some of us that have that ability to tap into, but what is your process for shipping the work, especially in the beginning, like how did you begin that?
Tom
I think my brother Pete told me something. I was in college, and I wanted out of our perfectionist. Or I guess I don't know. But I was having trouble shipping the work in college. I was having trouble finishing the job. I started - I always - I'm great at starting.
Alicyn
Yeah.
Tom
Yeah. Yeah. And he said, Hey, sometimes you don't need an A, you don't need to get it. Sometimes. He's good. Sometimes you just got to grab a seat and get it done. That was helpful. Because you want everything to be perfect and wonderful. But sometimes you just have to deliver Disney. I think when I was working on the seven day, we had some very difficult challenging deadlines.
And sometimes we had to get it done on Animaniacs. We had just luxurious deadlines. And now we can get this thing done. Maybe we're not done with that. We don't have to do it because we can move this one and but my creative process is I think it's important to exercise to run and to hike or to get out there physically get your body moving. I think it's important to be in nature to be out there.
And honestly, I think most of my revelations or epiphany that happened when I'm out there on the trail because I'm because you're not necessarily thinking directly about the creative process. But it's moving around in there having some time to gestate. I think it's important. When you're done with something, you need to be able to put it down. You need to have a good night's sleep before you return to it.
And I think it's always important when you have a draft you think it's done to wait a couple days and read it then and probably make some fixes. That's not a luxury that people - People often have in our business, but it would be great if we did creatively and I love cartoon characters. So I'm doodling all the time.
So my creative process is often starts with drawing. funny looking character, I have a character right now has a deer. His name is Deadbeat Deer. And I haven't done I haven't done much with him yet. But his goal is to have you, if you have a car above $60,000 in value, he's hanging out a long lasting virgin his Road near Malibu, and he's waiting for your car to come.
And he's gonna back out into traffic as you come and you're going to hit him in the butt and, and he is then going to guilt you into taking him home and taking care of him because he's sick of living out in the wild. And he's gonna mooch on you until you get rid of them.
So that's, and that's because I hit a deer on last virgin is many years ago. And it still bugs me and I just remember the deers but here it was not damaged but my car was ruined. The deer is like smashing into the windshield. It doesn't break it. But it's just like, in a rolls off the car passes away. And my car's wreck. So there's part of the process. It's like taking life experiences and turning them into cartoons.
Alicyn
Yeah, there's some there's something else. Yeah. But stepping away from the work and being in flow in a different thing that gives you access to like, unlock the secrets within AI. It's by how do you balance your work life? I'm sure it's different than it was 20 years ago, but throughout
Tom
the wife who gave me advice to just tell him about your favorite cartoons. So by bounce, divorce, what work in life, I don't think I've balanced I think I've worked probably way too hard or too intensely. And I think only after I left Warner Brothers, then I was able I had some time to chill. And I think like became a lot more tranquil then. But I was always pretty intense dude there in my Warner days.
Alicyn
Yeah. Like, how many hours a week would you work?
Tom
I would get there at nine. And I was still doing stuff at midnight, at home. Not there. I would come home we had storyboard. Pardon me?
Alicyn
Were you exercising then?
Tom
I was probably 30 pounds more than I am now. Probably.
Alicyn
Wow.
Tom
So no, that was I was not exercising very much.
Alicyn
And your wife now is a marathon runner. Is that right?
Tom
She has run 15 marathons how much is now done? She's not gonna run marathons anymore. But she hikes a lot.
Alicyn
Yeah, they're hard. I ran one. And I was like, that was good. That was plenty. One's plenty!
Tom
I did one. I did. Disney World. Where did you do yours?
Alicyn
In San Francisco!
Tom
Oh, very good.
Alicyn
Yeah.
Tom
I went to Disney World. There was a guy next to me dressed in a goofy, that this guy was to run a marathon Goofy in the forecast and beat me. That's a lot of weight.
Alicyn
It's a lot of weight. I don't want to keep I don't want to keep it because they were already attacked.
Do you have a minute to take maybe one or two questions from the audience? Or are you able to say anything about any of the current projects that you're working on? Are you under NDA?
Tom
Besides Deadbeat Deer?
Alicyn
Besdies Deadbeat Deer.
Tom
Don't steal Deadbeat Dear! Hey, got my son's working on a new project that you will want to be in touch on that. And he needs some voiceover help on that. And that's Luke and I work with Luke on a daily basis on different cartoon thing. I've got something I'm working on with Paul Dini. Of course -
Alicyn
He created Emerson.
Tom
Oh, yes, he did. That's right. And Harley Quinn is one of his creations. Anyway So Paul and I have something cooking I've got something with a famous movie star anyway there's a lot of stuff but until you sell it you don't want anyone to call you.
Alicyn
Oh, this was this was the pastor this is I was like,
Tom
I am trying to stir the pot.
Alicyn
Do you have any advice for aspiring animators or people that are looking to break into the animation industry in any way?
Tom
Yes, I would make samples of your work and post them, honestly. Joe vitovich, you know are joining a bit of very talented artists. And and Dave Alvarez, another very talented artist, and they post stuff on their Facebook and I saw those things and I went to Disney. I said we need them to design the characters for the show we're working on. And so Disney hired them.
And while the show didn't get picked up, Disney became aware of these artists, these artists made a little money from Disney. So it's important to get samples of your work out there and in front of people, because it can lead to good things. I know. Let's see, Natalie Palumbo is another example of someone who online presents some material and I get impressed by these things, and then I want to help them get work. So that's what these older generation people like me need to do to help the younger generation a lot. And I hope that we all do that.
Alicyn
And I think as creatives A lot of us think, what is our natural superpower, whether that's drawing or voice acting, you don't realize that is not everybody's superpower, that everybody's so different. So you might think, oh, people don't want to see my silly little voices, or they don't want to see my art, or I'm gonna wait till it's better or perfect, because I'm judging it by some impossible standard. And I think, at least for me, and I've been saying this for so others is just don't wait for it to be perfect. Just put it out there and let somebody else judge what they think.
Tom
That's how you learn. And maybe you think, Oh, this is perfect. And then they say, you know what, here's a reason. I remember I was pitching an idea about a character who tickles. I thought it was a delightful character. And he goes around people. And it turns out, that can be a trigger for some people, even though I used to tickle my kids. There are some people out there that tickling lead to bad things there, there are many things that you need to learn, like so you put something out there, okay, the tickling character, and you think, Oh, this is gonna be Beloved, and then you find out Oh, that can be a problem. You need to get your stuff out there. It doesn't have to be perfect. But you need to get some reaction, then you can grow,
Alicyn
then you can grow. Yeah, exactly. It's like putting it out there and then caught. You need the hunk of stone to carve before before you can make any art. I didn't really talk about Hysteria. And there was a quick question that came through. Can we talk about when you first had the idea of creating that show?
Tom
Hysteria, there was a movement for every station in the country to have something like five hours a week of educational children's programming. And I went to the folks at Warner Brothers said let's do this. And we made up you know, I always love the history. And Mark Seidenberg, and Bob just said, the whole trip, we love history. So we made up a bunch of comic characters, we had famous people of the past, like Napoleon, or a blanket post, like Saturday Night Live hosting the different episodes.
And when we first came out, it was a report on children's programming. And the report stated that if every show made for kids was like hysteria, or like Warner Brothers hysteria, this would be instead of Pokemon. And instead of tightline Pokemon by the Power Rangers, if every show was like a stereo, our kids would be in better shape, they know more, and they would be better entertained.
And so this was like the headline of this government report on educational kids. Programming. It was like, hysteria is really the example Barbara broglie. It god bless her, was the head of Warner Brothers publicity. And she like to the publication and made them remove all mentions of Hysteria from the article. And I was like devastated. I said, Why did you do this, Barbara? She said, It's from above. And what is coming from above that Warner Brothers is not an educational entertainment company. We don't want to be known as one.
Alicyn
Wow.
Tom
Yeah, anyway, the stereo was a wonderful experience for all involved. And I love Paul, you're playing Nostradamus.
Alicyn
I don't want to take up any more your time. We've already gone over. And I want to thank you so much for sharing your time with us and sharing your wisdom. It's been so enlightening and inspiring. So thank you so much.
Alicyn, it's been wonderful. Thank you and stay in touch.
Definitely. And thank you guys for tuning in live. I'm going to go ahead and post the replay in case you missed any of it. and tune in next week. We have voice actors, Olivia Hack is going to be on the show.
You might know Olivia from Hey Arnold, or she was Cindy Brady, which I didn't know actually for a long time since I've known her last airbender spent in Star Trek and so we are going to sit and have a cocktail actually and just chat so it's going to be another really fun show. So thank you so much, Tom, and many blessings to you. Thank you.
Thanks, everybody for tuning in. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in to Alicyn's Wonderland, where we explore the wild and wonderful world of animation and video games. Please remember to subscribe and leave us a review. For more episodes of Alison's Wonderland, please visit us at www.alicynpackard.com. See you next week.