Alicyn
Welcome to Alicyn's Wonderland. I'm your host, Alicyn Packard. Join us as we journey through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole into the wild and wonderful world of animation and video games. A do a girl a favor, and please subscribe to this podcast and go on iTunes and leave us a good review. If you like the show, please help spread the word it really helps us to get heard by more people. Thanks so much. Have you ever wondered what goes into casting some of the video games that you love to play? Well, today we're here with casting director and co founder of the help network Julia Schoeffling to chat all about it. My name is Alicyn Packard, and this is Alicyn's Wonderland. Hey, Julia. Hi. How's it going?
Julia Schoeffling
Wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.
Alicyn
Thanks for coming in. By the way, I love your necklace. Thank you. It's like a power up or something is a moonstone. Hmm. Does it represent your birthstone or anything?
Julia Schoeffling
No, I love crystals. And moonstones are a good crystal. I'm not going to know the properties of it. So I'm not going to pretend. But I think it's really pretty.
Alicyn
I have a crystal as well as quartz. Yeah. Crystal birds. Yes. Yes. And like was just a full moon yesterday, too. Right. So it's important to get with you. And yeah,
Julia Schoeffling
I feel like there's something about casting in witches. So you know,
Alicyn
really, is that true? I do. What Why do you think that intuition? Ah,
Julia Schoeffling
I say that I do intuition based casting inter I try not to be biased with my intuition. Obviously, we all have implicit bias. But yeah, just do a lot on feeling
Alicyn
really. So is it something you hear? And then it just evokes something within you? Yeah.
Julia Schoeffling
Does it make me feel amazing? Oh, and when you're listening to 100 files, knowing whether or not something, you know, vibrates within you, is kind of how you have to determine it. And then trusting that gut and then other people being okay with that that was a process.
Alicyn
So do you sometimes have to advocate for the people that you want on a project? Yes,
Julia Schoeffling
and no, I try to curate a menu. So I definitely don't make the selection unless there's some kind of like authenticity or identity where, you know, we're really trying to find someone specific. And I think someone represents it. And maybe they didn't necessarily see it in a audition. But I know for a fact they can do it. That's when I might push someone along. But generally, I tried to just give them like five to 10 people that I know can do the job. Some are a little bit newer, some are definitely going to be more experienced, and then just kind of a rainbow of sounds and performances.
Alicyn
And then the client ultimately is the one that makes the casting decision.
Julia Schoeffling
Exactly. And sometimes they'll have to, you know, do some callbacks or something like that in order to narrow it down, or perhaps they know right away exactly who they want, but it varies.
Alicyn
So how did you get involved in casting?
Julia Schoeffling
So I like to say back in like high school because I really liked being in theater. But I wasn't actually I wasn't actually casting anything but I like being stagehand assistant director. I did a couple of theater productions in school, but nothing I didn't like being on stage where he grew up in New York, okay, in the city or in this Oh, wow. And they have a great theater program there. It's Marymount school. And so I just got to be around a lot of it. And I taught it like the theater camp, just little kids and I just didn't really enjoyed it. I thought I was going to be in that was going to be in music. I wanted to own a record label. But it was right when Apple started selling songs for 99 cents. Not the best business model. But I was in college studying Recording Arts
Alicyn
Okay, what's your music jam?
Julia Schoeffling
I like a lot of different kinds of things. What would you honestly right now though, I want to karaoke till Olivia Rodrigo. That is Michael. Yeah, that pleasure. Yeah. And I just bring it back. I realized like Oh, I haven't done karaoke since that's That album was out and that is like the one I sing in my car all the time. So
Alicyn
Kate, it might we had it like cute at the karaoke. You go here's your mic.
Julia Schoeffling
I have done karaoke in a studio. It is a fun way to turn it up. Oh, really? Like those cool kind of No, we just had some nerds get some computers together and pipe it through the studio and we went to the booth and we had our we didn't even have cameras set up. We had the mic set up in the booth. It was awesome.
Alicyn
And was there like a monitor? Could you hear yourself in there? I think you could Yeah, like that's a key part of Kerry house.
Julia Schoeffling
I think you can also hear yourself because I was pretty content. Yes, we digress.
Alicyn
Wow. Yes, we digress. It's interesting to to hear all about your
Julia Schoeffling
says so. So yeah, I was in college for Recording Arts. I thought it was going to be in the music industry. I ended up getting a job. I actually didn't get a job at Starbucks the same week that I got a job at Treyarch, which is the call of duty developer and so it was serendipitous, but I was the receptionist there For two years during college did everything from like building Ikea furniture to like activating key cards for people picking up mail and yeah, but
Alicyn
you still send a Karma Maki.
Julia Schoeffling
I don't know this girl does. I definitely don't. One of my friends did get a job at the same Starbucks though. And then I got him an internship at the game developer and he still works there today.
Alicyn
Oh my gosh, Team plus here free drinks for live.
Julia Schoeffling
So I worked at Treyarch for two and a half years in the front desk. And then I moved into the sound department while I was there, I got to know a lot of people being at the front desk but also because I kind of knew that and I kind of knew that I wanted to be in it. So I was like, let me start meeting these people in the sound department understand how they got here and maybe make them listen to my crappy band recording. Hey, so can you tell me like what eq as you put on this base, and they're like, We have a freaking deadline and three days but sure, just bump it up here. But they would always help me and I developed a report and so when I graduated from college, I moved into the sound department there and I basically took over all the stuff they didn't want to do, which was dialogue. Now this isn't la okay. Yes, I went to Loyola Marymount and Treyarch is in Santa Monica. I think maybe now they're remote, but they did at the time it was Call of Duty. They had some Shawn Palmer snowboarder, they had Kelly Slater pro surfer, they had Kung Fu Panda, they had Spider Man. And so I worked on Call of Duty and Spider Man in the sound department, I would manage all the dialogue. So I would go to all the recording sessions. I wasn't necessarily in charge of hiring the actors, but facilitating them in and out we had a studio in the dev space. So they would come and record there. And I had to be at every session, I was taking notes. I was facilitating editorial if I wasn't doing it myself. And then I was implementing it into the game. So I was learning how to like get sounds in a game and be part of a game development team. It was amazing, but also very draining, and hard, long hours. Yeah, long hours, not a lot of free time, a lot of weekends. And so after about four or five years there, I left and kind of started freelancing for all sorts of audio vendors and worked for a couple more sound Deluxe, and then started Formosa interactive with Chip and then just kind of got worked behind the scenes on a lot of games like The Last of Us and Uncharted and God of War and Skylanders. And
Alicyn
was that on the audio side or when you were working in there.
Julia Schoeffling
Those are all on the audio side. But the narrative involvement has definitely come in more the last couple of years, like more deeply in the last couple of years to get to casting when I was at some of those audio vendors, I tip my tone it with Monster Hi, Jenny McSwain, the voice director on the first Monster High and she was too busy to cast. So I was like basically like uncredited little casting director and I got to work on that. And I loved it. And so I always kind of knew I was something I want to do. But until kind of the last few years at Formosa interactive, I wasn't able to really do it. Once I was there, I started kind of dipping my toe in it with celebrity casting. And then I was able to start finding clients who are willing to take a chance because up until a few different casting directors started a few years ago, most of the people who in casting for games were the voice directors, they just got too busy because they're in such demand. And so adding that to their plate of being in studio nine to six every day was just too much. And also like the authenticity and all the kinds of things that are needed now. It's just it's it's a job within itself. Yeah, it took kind of a travel of kind of figuring out how to put productions together, how to pay actors how to schedule, knowing all that stuff before going into the deeper casting side. And now I get to do that.
Alicyn
Can you talk a little bit about for most interactive, and also how you met? Yeah, sure.
Julia Schoeffling
So we were at sound Deluxe together. And we worked both I worked under him for him for about a year. And then I moved to his side lab, where I actually helped to do business development for the sound department at sound Deluxe. I always after doing that, it was fine. But I missed a dialogue. I missed actors. I missed that side of things so much. And so when sound Deluxe was starting to fall apart, because it's no longer with us, we I kind of said to chip, whatever you do next, I'm back under you. I don't want to do this side thing again. I want to be back in voice I want to be back in dialogue. And so we had an opportunity to start the department at for most interactive and so it was him and I the first few days and months and then we started building a team slowly. We were there for about five years, five and a half years and then left to start help network that's in that last four years and change
Alicyn
ago. Tell us about health network and your mission.
Julia Schoeffling
So the help network is a it's a group of creative entertainment freelancers, and we have creatives from every area of the industry who we've worked with over the years who we've kind of collected as People who we want to help work on game productions, and one of the hardest parts with game Productions is that a, it's hard to get your first game credit and be it's hard to get hired as a freelancer in some of these big mammoth groups. So to be able to have a group like ours, say, let's say you need a writer, okay, well, kind of writer who start to dig into that. And we can give you a selection of six to 10 writers who might be up your alley, some might have game credits, some might not. But they also are really good writers, and they just need a chance. And so we've been able to do that with writers and sound designers, voice directors, we've kind of started off a few new voice directors on their career, as well as hiring in the old faithfuls that have done all of the amazing things that you know, and love. So we kind of collect these people. And then we curate projects for our clients and say, Okay, we think that this recording studio and this voice director, and this writer might be best for what you're looking for. Or maybe they just want one little thing and we say, these are your options for that. So it kind of cater to each one and what they need,
Alicyn
and how do you find your talent within your for your network there,
Julia Schoeffling
some are people we've worked with forever. And then we are really, really passionate about finding underrepresented community members. And so we do a lot of outreach. And then we don't do a lot of like training and teaching. We do a lot of webinars as well as try and find creatives within the industry who are willing to shadow teach mentor, and then clients who are willing to give a shot. I do a lot of sleuthing on the internet. Casting is really interesting, I cast for more than just cast, you know, my actors who famously said cast my hairdresser, because I couldn't find a hairdresser in my area. And I like dug and dug and dug on Instagram until I found the lady that was my style. And now I'm being very faithful to her. So it's just a it's and it's also like recruiting, you know, it's kind of like finding the right person for the job. Even when it's not acting. So I kind of find that it it works out beyond just the casting,
Alicyn
is it the recruiters at the company that then hire you or individual teams,
Julia Schoeffling
the people that know us the best are typically audio directors just because of the positions that chip and I have held at previous companies. But we are starting to get more into the narrative side of things. So we are working with writers we work with a lot of consultants, people who can represent the groups, places, things, cultures that games are being created about where they don't necessarily have them on the development team. Wow. So trying to find a lot of those resources so that people can be representative but authentic to
Alicyn
That's amazing. And you guys also do staged readings of new scripts.
Julia Schoeffling
Yes, for our SWAT team is one of the coolest things, Jennifer Hale created it. So I love Jennifer, she's fabulous. And we're big fans of skills hub to Jennifer Hill, as well as Jesse Jones. And Sarah Molly, with Chip kind of started this swap program where there's a group of union actors who are willing to give their time for to table reads of your script to to our table reads of your scripts before the casting process. So anybody that's in the kind of pre casting phase of their project, mostly games, but we've offered it for other genres as well, so that they will read through and help you workshop, your script. And we've found such remarkable developments with those because the actors learn so much about the game development process. And then the game developers learn so much about the actors process by just by the questions they're asking. And the interpretation. They took off the script without direction or context or those types of things.
Alicyn
Interesting. And is it bigger companies that come for that service? We've
Julia Schoeffling
helped all sorts of companies, big, big companies and indies as well. It's free. So it's kind of it's open to whomever has a script that they want read?
Alicyn
me say, Wow, very, very cool. And what about can people get involved with that out of people?
Julia Schoeffling
Yes, it's a closed roster, but they are often accepting new actors whenever we do kind of a pass through. So you can always reach out to the health network that's through
Alicyn
your website. Make sure to put that in the liner note. As if this was like a record as a really cool. So I know you have a new book coming out. Very exciting. Tell us all about it.
Julia Schoeffling
So I'm really pleased that I can say that it will be out on July 6. Oh, that's so soon. I didn't want to commit to it because so many things have challenged me in this process. Yep. So I was afraid to commit too early to it. But now it seems we're very much steaming ahead. So yes, July 6 2020 to 2022 already available a couple weeks pre order on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and I may be recording my audio books here soon. So man, so yeah, I am so excited about it. It's called The Art of In business of acting for video games, I had started doing a little bit of I was trying to write some articles on LinkedIn and kind of start kind of bridging the gap between developers and actors, understanding terms, trying to make it easier for people. And as I started doing that, I realized that I thought I had enough information. And then as I started writing the book, I realized I had a lot of information. And it is, I believe, the best place for actors to find the tools to book jobs and video games, which is the goal. And I go through a lot of the best practices that just aren't widely known, just a little tidbit for you and your folks would be like the best practice of reading through the lines once and then doing a second pass versus doing two takes of each line. You know, it's it's a really minimal thing. And sometimes, like 60 Auditions come in, and you only have two that did it a different way. But we're probably not going to pass on the two that did it a different way. And we're probably not going to pass it back to you either just because of timing and volume. So just understanding those best practices that nobody's kind of shouting from the rooftops. There's also some sample scripts in there, there are exercises after each chapter so that you can kind of practice what I'm talking about, do a history of performance and video games, which is probably one of the things I'm most proud of, because I had never really conceptualized it that deeply. Cissy Jones had actually done some presentations around industry conferences about a little bit about voice and and how it's changed. And so I kind of took what she did and ran with it and added when, you know, motion capture came in, and what what that looked like, and I learned some incredible things. And it's a nice little summary now, too. That's amazing,
Alicyn
because it's the type of thing where it's not like that information is widely available in one source. So you've kind of put it all together so we can have it in print. That's the goal. Yeah. How exciting. Where can we get the book?
Julia Schoeffling
So you can find it on Amazon and on Barnes and noble.com. And you just search my name or the book titled The art and business of acting for games, I also have acting for games.com is the pathway to Hey, no.
Alicyn
URL? Well, we can't wait. That sounds amazing. How many pages did it end up?
Julia Schoeffling
It ended up at 228. Amazing. So formatting and whatnot that some cute little illustrations in there, but not too many a handful of pictures,
Alicyn
a picture book. It's not just
Julia Schoeffling
but yeah, it's it should be digestible. One of my beta readers said that he was able to read it in one sitting and that was very important to him. So I have not been able to read it in one sitting, but maybe that's because I roading getting through it is harder. So
Alicyn
that person does not have children. Yes, precisely.
Julia Schoeffling
That is exactly right. Well, so we'll have to do the audio book soon. So that's an option too. And then there's ebook and printed.
Alicyn
Awesome. Oh, that's so exciting. I can't wait. I'm going to pick it up the day it comes out. Thank you. Yay. July 6, July 6. Hey, guys, this is Alicyn Packard. Sorry to interrupt, but I just want to let you know that if you like the show, please, please, please remember to subscribe to this podcast. And leave us a review on iTunes. It really helps us to get heard by more people. Thanks so much. What is the biggest challenge of writing a book,
Julia Schoeffling
I think the biggest challenge was that I self published. And not that that that in itself is a challenge. But it was a whole new learning curve. For me. I think at first I thought it was like not as sexy or not as accomplished to to Self Publish. But after writing a book proposal, and realizing that the only person I needed to convince was myself, it did not make sense to go begging people to see what I know. And so that was hard to get over my ego, then totally got overzealous and assumed I would be done much faster. And the writing part was actually the easiest part. Oh, my, the writing part, I just had to schedule myself time and know that you couldn't do more than you know, you couldn't do less than two to three hours at a time. Because once you get into the zone of writing, you just need to keep going. And then I just tried really hard to not judge my writing and just do a stream of consciousness as much as possible. And then go back with edits, I worked with a couple editors that helped me clean it up. I worked with a layout person who made it look really pretty. One of my colleagues, Hari Lee wrote all the scripts for me like from scratch and then I got quotes from like a million people. And I still don't feel like I have enough. And it's a little frustrating that you would feel that way after having gotten all of that. But it is what it is. And I'm already planning version two or the next one. So so another
Alicyn
same book, but just the updated version, potentially.
Julia Schoeffling
Well, I figured it's games and you know, things change pretty quickly. So I figured by two or three years from now, I will probably need to update it. So I'm already making those notes. But also I think I'll probably have a companion I didn't dive as deeply into performance capture motion capture is I'd like to it's one chapter of the book. But I do think it could be a lot more amazing. I also think the casting side is very interesting and the directing side, so I kind of have goals of maybe getting some of those out to so many,
Alicyn
so much more to talk about lots of ideas. So from the time that you had the idea till now, how long did that take you to write the book.
Julia Schoeffling
So I started in December 2020. I finished writing in 2021, December 2021. And then between December 2021, and now has been editing, layout and design that
Alicyn
is, so that's another huge reason to do self publishing. Because the turnaround time is so quick. You're not waiting two years for your book to come out. And then like, Wait, what did I read?
Julia Schoeffling
But I also totally understand why they do that. Because I'm like, oh, you can't design a book cover until you know how many pages are in the book, because the spine thickness depends on the page count. You can do the front cover, but you can't do the spine. Okay, so everything. It's exactly. And so I think that was the part that you know, I'm I know what I know, but I definitely think this was like a whole new education. Yeah. Is there a thing? Once there are, there are a couple of books, the best book I read about writing a book was called How to write useful books.
Alicyn
Shout out to how to read. It
Julia Schoeffling
was excellent. So amazing.
Alicyn
Well, you talked a little bit about needing to change the book, because of the changes in the industry. What changes have you seen in the industry in the past few years, especially related to the global pandemic?
Julia Schoeffling
Yeah, so I think that was the biggest thing. And it's games really broke open. And I mean that because not just in acting, but in developing games, companies are way more open to remote workers in a way that they were never before because of confidentiality, whereas film and TV, yes, they have a lot of, you know, lock downs and security protocols, games are crazy confidential, and they don't want any things like storylines leaking. And so because of that, the idea that they would have some remote worker have access to their game pipeline is is insane. But the fact that they needed to do it, lots of companies have jumped on board. And it's for the best, because now they can access talent, who may have had reasons that they couldn't move to certain places. And so I think it really has broke open the entire industry, for actors especially, we would never have considered non local actors for 90% of games before COVID.
Alicyn
And what percentage of casting do you think is going to non local actors?
Julia Schoeffling
And I would say that it's still very small, I'd say that it's still probably like five to 10% 5%, maybe. But I believe that non union is much more less spread. Flexible, potentially, especially because a lot of people were working from home studios anyway. And but for union projects, I'd say them, they're more local, but still people are recording from home. They may be they may be local, but they're still recording from home.
Alicyn
Now, when you say non local, are we talking globally? Are we talking people from voice actors from other countries? And you know, more casting? If you want an English actor find somebody that's actually from England? Or is it more you know, someone in Seattle or someone in New York,
Julia Schoeffling
I'd say it's a little bit of both the combo casts were always a little bit common to do something like Star Wars, The Old Republic has some of their actors in the UK. And then some in the US just from the early days of when they cast it, they were just all over the place. So Seattle is there's a handful, but as long as they have a home studio, and there's a little bit global as in if you can find a talent that is at the same level as our local talent, which is very, very good, then they would be considered. So occasionally, we have had talent in other countries, but it's not like a common occurrence. And I think paying people in other countries gets a little bit more complicated too. So productions aren't necessarily running to that option. Other states though, is becoming more common Texas is becoming more common. And then just Yeah, actors who have home studios that are high quality around the states
Alicyn
amazing. So we know that mo cap has seen a lot of shifting around to with the pandemic because the very nature of mocap is you have to be in a studio on his on a set so can you just talk to a little bit about that and what you've seen
Julia Schoeffling
lots of testing, though it's still very local I kind of have yet that while actors can work from anywhere the most of the performance capture jobs and motion capture jobs are in certain markets. La being the biggest but Vancouver has some San Diego has some northern California has some New York has some Atlanta has some so they exist but the market is is in LA and so I think during the height of the pandemic, people were willing to do like facial capture actors homes and kind of To help them provide the rigs and maybe do their own makeup, but now that Hollywood got back to normal, and we have a standard protocol of testing and guidelines for sag most performance capture jobs, we just test the day before and people test before they go on set. Or even if we're doing in studio callbacks, we test and just test test test test. Amazing, but it is definitely still a local a local game.
Alicyn
Do you feel that that all the testing has slowed down the process? Yes. And
Julia Schoeffling
it's added costs. And it's a little inconvenient for actors to have to, you know, get to set the day before, but people are making lots of accommodations for certified testing places so that you can send tests and whatnot. But it's definitely an extra line item on budgets. And I think it's something that is wonderful for actors to be aware of that it is an extra thing for you all, but it's also an extra thing for production to be to be footing.
Alicyn
So don't complain.
Julia Schoeffling
I think sometimes that gets lost in the in the shuffle of like needing to go, you know, to set the day before and things like that. But it's been working, so I keep it away.
Alicyn
So what advice do you have, then for voice actors who are looking to break into motion capture,
Julia Schoeffling
we'll learn how your body moves acting classes, the best, I think there's some confusion between what motion capture and performance capture is, so I always like to kind of start there. performance capture includes face voice, maybe fingers. But motion capture is typically just body and it doesn't include your voice performance, there's a lot of work in that it tends to follow the stunts a little bit more and kind of the how you get the work and how the work is hired out. And the people that are hiring for those jobs. For performance capture, it's much more similar to like proper casting, in terms of, you know, finding the actors, so character briefs, agents, or direct connections, and then trying to find the best actor for the role. I think one of the hardest things for voice actors is that you've worked so hard to pull your performance in to fit into this microphone in your booth. And then we're asking you to like do the complete opposite, right. So getting comfortable in your body going to regular acting classes, improv things that allow you even yoga and things that allow you to just know that your fingertips are here and your toes are there. And you would be surprised at how disconnected we can be from our bodies. And that alone, being able to when you've got those suits on, you've got no hair, you've got no makeup. You don't have costumes, you don't really have props, they're usually made out of PVC pipe. So your imagination is all you have and just being able to really show that in your body. Is is it?
Alicyn
Do you do voice actors also find that it's challenging having to memorize the lines? It's
Julia Schoeffling
really fascinating to me, because I could not do it. I mean, I have in the past, but it's just not my my thing. So I am so impressed by actors. I think there's some apps now that will help you memorize
Alicyn
rehearsals bro, David Lawrence. There's we audition.
Julia Schoeffling
So I think it hurts my heart when people aren't off book because I want them to get the best, you know, opportunity. And unfortunately, it is not always the best opportunity when you're not off. But that said, we're humans. And we understand and we would much rather the performance be and the words are an afterthought. Like, if we know what you're saying by your performance. It's okay, if the words weren't perfect. We would much rather that'd be the case than stumbling or lying asking for a line or in which of course that happens. That happens to just eating up your mics. No problem. There's sturdy. Yeah, so it is there's a lot of memorizing though. Yeah, I think the pro camera yeah, so voice actors, I think are uniquely prepared for performance capture roles because of the voice aspect of the role. And when on camera actors come in, they may have memorized and can do the blocking. But when they get in the VO booth, they still have to handle all those combat lines or the efforts or those types of things. So it's I really the skill is in being able to do all the things and kind of transfer your performance between capture media, which that I know you were asking kind of about the future like that's what I think the future is actors who can blend their performance seamlessly across whatever it is that's capturing because IP is already across everything. We're already seeing apt to film to you know, and even just at Tribeca there are a couple of films that were basically Unreal Engine based game games, if you will, but just rendered by Unreal Engine. And so there's already this massive crossover between IP and media and technology. So just knowing how not letting any of that stuff impede your most authentic performance.
Alicyn
And do you teach performance capture motion capture workshops or classes?
Julia Schoeffling
I do. I've stopped a little bit right now just to get the book out the door but I will definitely be teaching more and at help academy.com Almost all of the health network have classes and we're always adding new teachers as well, besides myself to make sure that we're covering everyone's perspective,
Alicyn
amazing. I'll share those whenever I see them or feel free to nudge me if there any other performance or motion capture classes that you recommend outside of help.
Julia Schoeffling
I think it never hurts to understand the technology. But I don't think it's necessary to take the like anything that makes a real or anything like that, when you're looking for performance capture jobs we're looking at on camera reels. A lot of times we're doing self tapes. So we're gonna look at how you move in that self taken and go from there.
Alicyn
And what about any advice for voice actors or people who are aspiring voice actors on really making your audition stand out in a sea of talent,
Julia Schoeffling
I think the best tip I can give is trying to bring some nonverbal sounds into your audition non word sounds. So whether that's breath or sigh or a laugh or a cough, or whatever, anything that can that isn't going to be thought of by someone else. And it's not that they won't think of it exactly, but they won't think of the exact same thing. And so just peppering in a little bit of personality that brings that line off of the page and kind of allows us to visualize what's happening where you are, how far away that person is, just from the projection level or how you kind of were out of breath when you started.
Alicyn
Field burpees in the studio.
Julia Schoeffling
I think that people have forgotten that tech squat.
Alicyn
Doesn't get me out of shape.
Julia Schoeffling
Maybe because we haven't been in the studio. Yeah, maybe we should do a whole like Jazzercise class.
Alicyn
Well, it has been so lovely sitting down with you today and getting to hear so much about the wealth of knowledge that you possess. We're so excited for the book. I can't wait until that comes out. Thank you so much, Julia, for talking to us today.
Julia Schoeffling
Thank you for having me. And, guys,
Alicyn
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