¶ Secure Digital Life and Crypto
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Welcome to a Wiser Retirement Podcast . We believe the best financial advice should always be conflict-free . I'm your host , casey Smith , guiding you to financial freedom . Today's my co-host , robert Swarthout , founder , ceo and portfolio manager of Teton Crypto Capital . Hey , robert , good morning . We are going to cover today several topics .
Obviously , there's been a lot of news changing in the crypto space . First , let's just get started talking about how to have a secure digital life . I think this is something that is very relevant to today . Even in the very beginning people for Bitcoin , coinbase was ever established , you had these wallets right . You had coached the wallet .
I don't know if those famous stories ended where there was $500 million and no one knew the key . The key was lost , person passed away .
The thing with blockchain is they may not announce that they have access to it , but everything's public on a chain . Stuff starts moving out of a wallet , you know that they finally found the keys .
I would imagine the last third of each of those stories you probably don't hear about until something else comes , some news like , oh , the funds from that wallets are moving . I think having a secure digital life is important , even outside of crypto . Obviously , people have a credit card and that's part of your digital life .
A lot of times those get compromised and the banks deal with the fraud and all that , so your card just gets reissued , you don't have to think about it , but it's still a hassle . So there's things that you can do in your life that can help prevent some negative side effects from happening . Maybe we'll start off with passwords .
I can't tell you how often I'll talk to somebody and they'll be like oh yeah , i've got my password memorized and I just cringe A . They said password , not passwords , and they have it memorized . Yeah , you can have one or two memorized , which is probably good , but you have a lot more passwords in life than just one or two .
So there's password managers out there that whether it's be installing a phone or a PC of some kind or a laptop , that allows you to store as many passwords as you can think Logins to websites and they can store other details as well , like credit card actually , so it makes it easier to buy things online .
But , at the end of the day , having a secure way to store passwords is important and specifically , those password managers help you generate unique passwords for each service . So you might get an email from time to time that says we're just letting you know we were compromised , so please reset your password .
And if you've used the same password in all these different websites , that's probably a problem for you , right ? Because now it's out there , because a lot of times the username is just your email Exactly , and you're probably using the same password for your email address , which is just terrible .
That's like the single point of failure , because you can reset everything if they can get into your email account .
There's a story from a disgruntled employee that knew that the boss always used this one password phrase for everything , got into his Apple login and remote wiped the guy's laptop .
The good things to technology and the bad things to technology , exactly .
Yeah , yeah , so there's like one . There's one password manager , which is really good . Yeah , i mean there's last pass which has gotten it . And it is recently but it's better than one password .
Exclamation point for everything . Right , Exactly . And you know , sometimes you go to a website and they have different requirements for passwords .
So the password generator in these apps , well , you can kind of , you know , configure it to generate a password , and just you know , whatever that website , what you probably shouldn't be using is that password manager inside your web browser .
You're saying you should or should not like . I just don't know if I'm comfortable with Chrome .
Oh Yes , the one built into chrome , yeah it's not nearly as feature-rich as you know the ones that we may be suggesting , but like It's better than nothing . That's true , um , but you're likely not coming up a unique password .
So that is that you remember the password to get into your password manager , correct ? And then after that , the password manager generates a unique Uh passcode for every single login that you would have . Uh that you would never remember , correct ? It's not . It's not associated to your dog , your wife , your Nothing .
You know , it's a random string of characters numbers , letters and exactly you know , a lot of times they'll say a minimum password length , to say 12 characters . Well , a lot of times they'll take up 30 . Well , you might also make it difficult . Um yeah to be to be guessed , um , or you know , brute force .
So Password managers , i think , are like table stakes these days to having a secure digital life . And You know , the longer the password , the better . And what I like about the password manager Yes , they manage passwords but again , they can manage .
You can put some secure notes in it if you , if you have like , say , A , um , a tax ID for a business that you that you run , you can store those kind of things in there as well . Right , so You know , you can even store , you know , social security numbers and all that kind of stuff .
I mean , if you decide that you want to , you know , i guess , go all in with it with a particular app right , and then make sure you're leaving that master password to someone Master yeah absolutely , you know , and actually apples kind of Started to evolve in that area too , because you can name a person . Yes , if you do .
If you're deceased , they can kind of prove it to apple , then they yeah , it's like how do you um uh Will on your digital life , right ? Um , and that's something that's being figured out a and just the digital life in general and also in crypto . That's another like how do you keep assets ? So there's some companies trying to solve that problem there as well .
Two-factor authentication ? I mean , that's annoying .
It's annoying , but that's the solution . But that is a lot of the solution .
So , being a wealth manager firm for us , we get a tax quite a bit . In fact , i think we're probably going through one now . Anytime you hire a new employee , they will they people in them , whoever the they are Yeah , pakistan , india , wherever They . They are attack , attacking one of our new employees right now and asking for acting as me . But they don't .
They don't have my email address . They just make it very similar right and saying hey , can I get your phone number ? Because if they can get that phone number , then what Two-factor authentication right has a better chance of working right .
Yeah , i mean , if they get the password . Yeah , that's an example of social engineering and actually it's a great time to talk about it because , you know , text-based Two-factor authentication is important . I think that's like if a service has it and they don't require you to use it , they're probably doing you a disservice and themselves .
Yeah so they should enforce it . I'm a big fan of the ones that allow you to use a separate app , um , to generate the code the authenticator the authenticator .
Well , there's google authenticator , there's microsoft's got one , or these password managers can also act as the um Storing the authentication code , so you don't have to have a secondary app Um which so it keeps it all in sync .
A lot of the password Stores actually will allow you to share a password like with a family member . But not actually give them the password , which is pretty cool . Oh so so I can share a password with an employee , right to get into something , but they don't know what the password is . I can't see it . Yeah , yeah , they have to log in through that .
You have to have to write a URL , obviously right , so the software would recognize it . Yeah , which is which is pretty cool .
That is cool , the um . So , when it comes to two-factor authentication , if you have a choice , i would say prefer a A token based one so an app based one over text . Get receiving it via text message right because You could be attacked in the sense of somebody trying to steal your phone number , which gives them access to the two-factor authentication .
This happens frequently when somebody gets hacked in a crypto environment because You know somebody goes to I don't know . Choose your favorite cell phone store . They social engineer an employee there to say , oh I , my phone's messed up . I need , i need a new sim card . Please move my phone number to this sim card .
They pop it in their phone and they've basically hijacked your phone number . Oh wow , so your phone's gone . They have your two-factor authentication codes and they probably already have your password details to that point They've been waiting to get . Then , all sudden , they're in yeah so I cringe when I see the only option to be a text-based thing .
And there's things you can do at the cell phone companies . You can require them to Take a number like a Almost , like another password of source but , it's just a You know long string of numbers like , for instance , at&t . You can go in and they require to have that from you to make a change to your account .
So that person that is trying to social engineer them , it's just adding layers of complexity to it . That Is cumbersome if you're trying to make your own changes at your cell phone carrier but it keeps them from You know Doing something that you don't want them to do .
For instance , So I found it interesting . You want to talk about this on this podcast , do you ? are you seeing like an uptick in theft of crypto , or yes ?
um , a theft and crypto and also You know what kind of gave me the idea of just doing this segment is Just recently there's been some high profile people in crypto that got attacked in . In particular , they get sim .
They call it sim swapping , but they got sim swapped , attacked and And not initially their crypto got stolen , because I think that was started to happen , but they , their twitter accounts got taken over because twitter uses text-based authentication . Yeah um , and it's just kind of like you know , it just made me think about it .
¶ Digital Security and Crypto Advice
So at the end of day it's it's definitely something that you know once you Get it up and going . Maybe that takes a little bit of time and that's frustrating and you have some , you know , break in period there .
But once you're up and running it's honestly a more smooth experience than having to like type everything because You know all these managers have like a browser extension what pre fills it for you . Yeah you don't really think about all the complexities that you're kind of going through . You just you know click , click .
So right . So what about just a good old-fashioned you know you leave your laptop on an airplane . I mean , that's a huge risk .
Yeah , I mean it depends . I haven't owned a Windows PC in probably 15 years .
So I don't know right same .
What kind of ?
options there are in those . I know a lot of max these days have the ability to do like a fingerprint scan . Yeah , i Turn it on like if you're not doing it , it's , or if you have a phone that has the face ID and obviously I think everybody does that these days right .
Like turn on the options they provide for you , like , if not , you're just being silly , but you know a Lot of stuff is stored In the cloud these days , so if your laptop gets stolen , it may not be such a big issue .
Obviously , if you're letting the browser store your password for you using the thing that's built in , and all of a sudden they get access to your computer , maybe there's a risk there . So it's probably another reason not to store your passwords that way .
But the I think probably the phone , your , your cell phone could be more dangerous . It was everything's on the phone now .
I mean , you know there's options on the phones and even you know I have something enabled on my laptop that if somebody tries to type the wrong password Too many times incorrectly , it literally the phone and or the computer just like wipes itself .
Yeah .
Like yeah , it's a headache if somehow I did that to myself , but like it just adds that you know That layer of precaution there .
So what Crypto specific advice would you give people when it comes to safety or having a secure digital life ?
Yeah , so Just generally , like , I think it's always worth spending the time to understand what it means to cuss through your own assets . Does that mean that you need to be using all this crazy defy stuff ? Probably not , but the end of the day you need to understand what it means to . You know , if you have cash , you're keeping it your wallet .
It's no different than having crypto and Using a hardware wall is what they call it to kind of store those functionally passwords to those wallets . Again , you can kind of kind of intertwine that back into having a password manager .
Um , there's some recovery stuff that you would need for a hardware wallet that you can kind of store in a password manager if you need to . But you know it , just You know with if the say , the sec sues your favorite exchange , it seems like their favorite thing to do these days .
Right , like after they approve the exchange , i'm sorry , after they've approved , after they've proved to go public and , yes , all the other craziness .
Correct . Um so say , they just get a wild hair and they decided to sue your favorite exchange .
¶ Crypto Custody and ETFs
The laws in the us Right now are not set up in a way that if they go through bankruptcy court because of this Say you say it's an extreme scenario They go through bankruptcy court . Your , your assets are not your assets . You functionally have length them , even though it's not a lending arrangement .
Yeah .
It's not in a trust Um . So you're kind of in line with the creditors and probably behind senior creditors , so you're likely not to get back one to one what you put in . So the idea that you need to self custody , you take it off an exchange . Again , i use the analogy use an exchange as a drive-through , not a destination right .
So you go there , you get your stuff , you leave and you can you custody yourself .
So we have a podcast that we talk about . Look , uh , we talk about that . A little bit has any of that really evolved . I mean , to me it takes a little coding , but I know it's not that hard if you , if it's not that hard , i would say .
We have talked about in a few other podcasts The user experience of having your own wallet . Managing it is slowly getting better . It's come from such a technical place . It just takes a lot of evolution and the more people that come into crypto , i think the easier it gets , because they continue to push it out . Is it , um ?
does it pass the grandma test right now ? Probably not , um , the grandma test being , can you just ask your grandma to go do it and she can figure it out .
Is there a good source for that ? Is there a good website that kind of like ? this is step one . This is step two , or would you just google it ?
Well , it's probably more specific to the wallet you choose to buy , so it's hard to give general advice there .
Okay .
Um , but you buying that in the app store .
Are you going to a ?
website . You're never buying it off amazon , you're never buying it anywhere but the manufacturer's website . Okay , because you run the risk of Somebody selling one on amazon or some other website picking on amazon here .
Yeah , and they have replaced the software on it and it's hacked already And you , you would never know yeah so you want to buy it direct from the manufacturer . They run specials all the time , so it's not like you're gonna be paying for ?
who's they ? who are some manufacturers that you can trust ?
Ledger is one . Uh , there's another one called trust wallet .
There's You know , are they like mailing you a drive ?
essentially at that point It looks like a USB stick , effectively . I mean , they can sometimes be bigger because sometimes they put screens on them . Okay , um , but You know , i think just searching on google , for you know hardware .
So it's , it's in there , it's coded in there with a password , but when you're disconnected from the web , Correct a lot of so there's .
Sometimes they require to be connected via usb cable to use them , or they can be done with bluetooth . I prefer the usb cable ones over the Bluetooth because then I know when it's connected .
Right .
There's no like oh , this thing decided to have a life as its own . You know that's a bit of the paranoid side of me when it comes to that , but it's just . You know you're only buying it from the websites , and you know , when I say Google it , you got to be careful . I guess you got to be careful too that you're not going to some other spam website .
Yeah .
So it just shows the complexity here . If we could fast forward , like probably a year , two years , not far from now , i think custody solutions are in place where I feel like you could leave them there and you're in .
The laws and regulations are in place , yeah , that make this complexity not necessarily be a necessity for most people , like when you can , you know you're not custing your own stock certificates , like that problem is solved . We need to get there with crypto and the laws need to catch up to allow that to happen .
I mean , nasdaq claims that they're about to launch a custody solution For crypto , probably just Bitcoin and Ethereum up front . Yeah , and they would expand it . But , like you know , you got to get your toes in the water at some point . So Interesting , all right .
So we'll shift into crypto news . What's you know ? I've seen on Twitter a lot of people are are screaming that CBDC will be in place within a year .
If you live in Palau or if you live in some other country . Well , can I go ?
along with that , things that you said in the past . I mean is is the SEC ? I think the SEC is not trying to clear the way for the banks at this point with all these lawsuits . I think they're just trying to say we're going to be in control of this versus other agencies potentially It's like they're fighting for turf , I guess , of some sort .
They are definitely fighting for . The SEC is trying to get it's in a turf war with the CFTC , right , okay , that's our four . Has been ongoing and continues to kind of happen . The CFTC , in my opinion , is acting like the adult maroon and the SEC is a spoiled little bread that is making up stuff as they go . So you have that , but you know , we have .
You know , in some sense I'm going to jump ahead here in our notes , but the SEC has been saying no to Bitcoin ETFs ever since they were filed . The first one , i didn't realize , was filed over 10 years ago . Oh , wow , that was the Winklevoss twins of Facebook fame .
They have been in crypto a good while , but they filed the first Bitcoin ETF in 2013 , 14 , something like that . Probably a little early . Yeah , obviously , because it didn't get approved . But , like , even back then , the markets weren't where they need to be Right .
And then you fast forward to recently and all of a sudden , all these applications from major financial tradfi players are all of a sudden being submitted for . Yeah , now BlackRock .
BlackRock .
They're doing theirs in conjunction with Coinbase , so Coinbase is going to deal with the custody and all that stuff . So I think that you know is the ? did the SEC send out the bat signal to say , okay , tradfi players , it's safe to file your Bitcoin Because we've had we have four in the ?
notes here and there was a fifth one that was announced after these notes were put together , of this . So BlackRock , fidelity , wisdomtree , invesco and Van Dyke are all filing their Bitcoin spot ETF all within , call it , eight , nine days of each other .
I mean , if they were to all get approved . What'll be interesting is how cheap earning Bitcoin could get , because it's all the same thing . So eventually they're going to compete on price right .
The compete on price And , from an investor standpoint , once there's an ETF , if you want to own Bitcoin , the idea of having a custody is not an issue anymore , because that is part of what they have to do Other than BlackRock or whoever .
Well , I mean , yes , but that's part of their business , right ?
Exactly . I guess if something was stolen , then that may be bad for that ETF , but , like , in theory , these ETFs are going to track the price of Bitcoin , so it's just been fascinating . So back to your thing about , like the SEC . I think you know , and this was part of the Conocoat conspiracy theory we talked about when Don was here three months ago .
Yeah .
Where the SEC was trying to slow down the crypto players to let the tradfi catch up . So it seems pretty obvious what's happening right now And you even have , like Congress , in particular the financial services committee , getting really fed up with the SEC .
There's this undercurrent that maybe Gensler has been so aggressive in his approach to crypto that he's becoming a political liability for the Biden administration . I don't know . Possibly I can see that being the case , but there's also rumors that they're trying to get him to leave too . So I don't know .
Is odd the amount of time and resources the SEC is spending on the crypto market , considering how small the crypto market is , and all the other stuff the SEC should be doing .
Yeah , But at the same time they've had some big blow-ups
¶ Crypto Landscape and Regulation
to .
FTX The blow-ups they were working with FTX Right .
Right . Well , the people in the case didn't understand what was happening , clearly , right . But at the same time , ftx did keep his company books and quip books Right . It was probably so much money moving around it would take him years to figure it out , right ?
You know , Agreed Or I don't know . I could go as far as to think that the SEC had an inkling , but there were . I don't know if money was being changed hands there or something , But at this point I don't believe anything . The SEC says it faced value .
It's just the whole thing with Binance too now . So you have Binance , you have FTX , implode , yep , and it felt like Binance was kind of dirty but I couldn't really put my finger on it .
There's always been like suspicion around Binance , right , right , because they won't claim where they're based out of and all these kind of things . They do things that may be positive for them running the business but definitely add suspicion in this cloud around them Not very transparent .
Right , But yeah , I mean , since the last podcast , the SEC has sued Coinbase . It was going to be Binance on a Monday and Coinbase on a Tuesday .
This was two weeks ago And they're very different lawsuits , very different allegations And then , at the same time if you rewind , we talked about the last podcast Coinbase sued the SEC to make them give an answer on whether they're rulemaking . And then now the judge in the other case , where the SEC is suing Coinbase , is like okay , what about that over there ?
Like , the judges are paying attention And at some point , you know , the SEC is building a house of cards here . I think that like is not good for them And the whole idea that they're for investors or retail investors to protect them is just laughable at this point , because I think they're doing more damage than they ever could do harm .
So when does it all kind of come tumbling down ? Because we believe that the SEC versus Ripple , we're all Ripples favored . The Heman documents , do they not ?
support . Oh my gosh , the Henneman documents show the hypocrisy within the SEC . Specifically , you know the last administration . that was Jay Clayton , the chairman , and then Bill Henneman , the head of corporate enforcement or enforcement division , whatever it's called .
You know the evolution of that speech went from being titled , you know , crypto Clarity or something like that , to being the ether speech , like right , it just shows the sliminess of the SEC , the how many , you know . no one's really tallied it up , but I would imagine that there's at least two or three laws that he broke , henneman in particular .
and you know the statute of limitations has run out . So this is kind of really frustrating . It's like , why did we have to do this ? There's , you know , as part of the Binance lawsuit .
Binance is kind of countersued in some level and alleged that there's bad things going on at the SEC and two of the people that signed off on that are ex-people from the SEC that would have been in the seats that Henneman was in . Oh good , it's just , you know , layer upon layer of slime .
So you know the Henneman docs , you know , while there was no bombshell in them , like saying , you know that they thought , except he was not a security or something along those lines it did kind of just lay the groundwork about , like the SEC . There was multiple people in the SEC saying by doing this speech we're going to create more uncertainty in the market .
We're going to . it's going to be harder to understand . what is it or is not a security ? There appears to be some level headed people at the SEC , the ethics department , saying you know you're making money from your law firm , you can't continue to talk to them . He continues to talk to them Like it's just layer upon layer of bad .
So you know , i think if anything , those Henneman docs help . you know , if Ripple ever has to enact their fair notice defense , i don't think it gets that far for them , but if they ever had to , they got a pretty good case because the SEC is saying this will happen . It did happen in the sense that it made things more uncertain in the market .
It wasn't clear how would the executives of the company know something that the SEC is not willing to say ?
Right , So taking it back to like 35,000 feet , when you're looking out of the next year to three years , how do you think the crypto landscape changes based on what you're seeing today as an investor ?
and crypto .
Where do you see the ? you know what are you most concerned about and what do you see the most promise .
That's a great question . The promise is that we finally get some regulation in the US . The rest of the world is leaving the US behind Like it is insane .
This is probably I've said this ad nauseum on here but like we need regulation and it's becoming more and more clear just how off base the US is handling this Because you think the regulation would bring legitimacy to the crypto space Right . And it would .
you know you're not trying to take banking relationships , i mean , like the whole choke point 2.0 thing that came along and basically trying to debank the crypto industry . It's just , you know it makes me sad as an American that we're having to . it feels like a banana to a Republican right now the way some of this stuff is happening .
But three years out I think we got clarity . It's certainly some clarity via court cases . So that's going to be one-offs . It's not going to be industry wide . I think within three years you potentially have a new administration . Things are acting .
Things are different from that perspective more broadly , but do you even have , i think , the third week of July at the committee level there's going to be some vote on some crypto clarity acts that are coming out of this . I think the Senate at that point or no , the House , excuse me .
So you know , at the beginning of the year I thought we may get some crypto regulation this year . A month ago I was like there's no chance it's happening until we have a new administration . So a year and a half from now the earliest . But now you know there's an outside chance that they get something done this year .
It's interestingly , it's becoming more bipartisan . The amount of Democrats that are , like , not happy with the way Democrat senators and , you know , congress , congressmen and women that are not happy with the way that Gensler is handling this is becoming probably too much to like ignore , and then they may be enough of a vote to kind of get things to move through .
So a positive , i guess . certainly on the three year perspective . the one year time frame is a little more hazy , But you know , we may talk again in a month or two months , i guess , and have much more clarity about what may be happening in the short term .
Let's wrap up with going . We look at the major players that are coming into this space Before investors thought oh , this crypto thing , this Bitcoin thing , is just out there and that's what the kids are doing . It's crazy . It's just making real value . Magic Internet money , yeah , exactly . And now all of a sudden , i call it Fortnite money right .
Now , all of a sudden , it's showing up at Schwab and BlackRock . These are major asset players . How do you think that changes the landscape ? You think it pushes out the small players , or does it just make it a legitimate asset class , if you want to call it that Sure , because we don't know what it is yet Yeah .
I mean to me I'm willing to go on record It is the new asset class . People need to start thinking about it that way . I've long believed that this is not an if it's a win . I've thought about that recently . I've thought about that for a couple of years .
All this stuff that's happened more recently since last November , and then stuff with the SEC this year , to me we're just kind of like theatrics to slow Again . it kind of goes back to what we thought was a conspiracy theory , like just slow down the new players to allow the incumbents from Treadfy to come in and get their stuff their space .
We're seeing that so fast and so heavy right now . To me , when they finally are public about it , it only legitimizes that idea . Just this week you alluded to it Schwab , fidelity and Citadel Securities . they have kind of combined to do a joint venture where it's a crypto exchange that you can't necessarily go trade at .
It's some kind of software behind the scenes that will work on their platforms . Schwab is , i think , the one that was leading that charge . if I'm not mistaken , citadel is the one that's running it . They're only starting with Bitcoin and Ethereum . People think that Ethereum has clarity . It does not have clarity .
Sometimes it gets lumped in that bucket because people are assuming it correctly . That's one example of many . You have again all those ETF applications and you have NASDAQ talking about their launching their custody solutions . That's just here . in the US There's a whole bunch of companies . Credit Suisse is doing stuff about custody or they filed an application for it .
Things are happening . It depends on where you get your news , depends on which perspective you're going to have on crypto to the extremes . If you're willing to parse out the news , there's a lot of good that's happening . It's not as sexy and make all the headlines as some of this other stuff , but it's just building blocks .
Thanks for your time today , robert . We bring Robert on once a month to talk all things crypto , partially because it's the future . We know it's going to be there . We just don't know exactly what it's going to look like .
I think as advisors here at Wiser Wealth , we have to be on top of what's to come , even though right now we don't have it in our portfolios , but it's something that we're certainly monitoring As fiduciary advisors . It's hard to recommend crypto as an asset class when it doesn't have the regulation that you're talking about .
I think once that framework is set and there's playgrounds playgrounds is set up fairly , then it makes sense . There's so much depth that can happen , which is why we started talking about the safety of it and storing your crypto . That becomes our liability if we start putting that into portfolios , at least in major ways .
We do have a couple of episodes If you want to focus on crypto episode 167 , the SEC in crypto episode 161 , why crypto is so confusing to the average investor . Feel free to reach out to Robert . Robert what's ?
your website . The best would be via email , robert at tetoncryptocapitalcom .
Reach out to Robert directly If you have crypto type questions or interested in investing in his fun . Thanks for listening . Take care .
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