Foreign. The Hoop Heads podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball. If we play 31 games in our regular season, if we're really good at these four things, we'll probably win 26. But if we start trying to be really good at 15 things, then are we really going to be good enough? So that's the battle constantly. There are so many things that you can do, but should we Brandon Ubell. Will be entering his fourth season as a men's basketball assistant coach at the University of South Dakota.
Prior to his time at South Dakota, Ubell was the Director of Scouting at the University of Utah for one season in 202122 Ubell began his coaching career as a graduate assistant coach at Utah State from 2019 to 2021. Brandon was a four year standout at the University of Nebraska from 2009 to 2013. He played his first three seasons under Doc Sadler and his senior season under Tim Miles. Ubell appeared in 125 games and started 89 for the Huskers.
In his senior season as team co Captain, Ubell averaged 11.5 points per game and finished seventh in the Big Ten with 6.7 rebounds per game. In addition to his success on the court, Yubel was a three time Academic All American, earned the 2012 Nebraska Hero Leadership Award and was a nominee for the Big Ten Sportsmanship Award in 2013. Following his collegiate career, Ubell played five seasons overseas in Belgium and France before beginning his coaching career in 2019. Hey Hoop Heads.
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Visit coachingportfolioguide.com hoop heads to learn. You want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Brandon Ubell, men's basketball assistant coach at the University of South Dakota. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast. It's Mike Clemsling here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Brandon Ubell, men's basketball assistant coach at the University of South Dakota. Brandon, welcome to the Hooped Pod. Thank you very much. Happy to be on.
Excited to have you on. Looking forward to diving into all the interesting things that you've been able to do in your career, both as a player and as a coach. Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid. Tell me about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball. What made you fall in love with. Was always just into sports in general.
My first basketball memory though, sitting on my grandma's floor watching I believe Game 6 of the NBA Finals, Michael Jordan hits the shot at Utah where people claim he pushed off. But I mean that's a normal basketball play in my opinion. Exactly, exactly. We could probably argue that one for a little bit, but no, I mean I've just, I've kind of always loved basketball, played a ton of sports growing up, but that was kind of always the one, you know.
And then I was tall growing up, but then kind of late bloomer, ish. Sophomore year, went from 6 foot to about 6 8. And then that's kind of when things kind of started to heat up a little bit basketball wise in high school. So always loved it. But then, you know, the skill and the size and stuff kind of all started to gel together in high school. And I played Blue Valley West High School for Donnie Campbell.
So some people might understand the reference here, but Ted Lasso, if you've ever watched that show, just Jason Sudeikis, he played for Donny Campbell and based his character's like mannerisms and everything on Coach Campbell. And so if you ever watch Ted Lasso, like that's, that was my high school coach essentially. But no, he was a great coach. Bobby Knight, traditional motion. So learned how to play play and read the game under him and was really, really fortunate to play for him.
He's won a Ton of games at the high school level. We won a state title when I was in high school there and. And then played summer ball with the Wedman Pumas. Played for Scott Wedman, who played for the Celtics for a long time. Played for the Kansas City Kings when they were a thing for two years and back when there weren't shoe circuits or anything like that.
So we're really going back now if you think about the landscape nowad and then, yeah, kind of in that junior year of high school, heading into senior year, recruitment and everything picked up and had had quite a few offers, ended up going to Nebraska. So I mean, obviously that's a lot to cover in a short amount of time, but yeah, I've always loved the game, but yeah, kind of a late bloomer in terms of things kind of coming together for me.
Were you still playing other sports prior to that growth spurt in high school? Were you still playing formally on teams? Yeah, I was playing baseball. I was exclusively pitching and to be honest with you, baseball was more about hanging out with my boys, you know, all my good friends, kind of. We all played a lot of the same sports. So we went straight from basketball season, then we would play baseball, and then we would play stuff in the summer. And then, um.
So I was playing baseball through my sophomore year of high school. And then that sophomore year is kind of when, you know, kind of the AAU stuff, the summer stuff and recruitment is really picking up. And that got to be a little bit too much in terms of like, you know, I was. We were on the road, we were playing basketball. I was going straight from baseball practice to basketball practice and so decided that that was kind of the end of it, especially because it was just.
I wasn't, to be honest, I wasn't great. So I was just more. I was on the team, I was chewing seeds, sitting in the dugout, hanging out with my boys. So there you go. So, yeah, really focused in on basketball there later on. Yeah. What did that focus look like for you as a high school player in terms of getting better?
Obviously, as you just talked about the way that basketball players develop and the way the youth basketball scene environment looks like today compared to what it was like when you were playing? What was your off season look? What did that look like? How'd you try to go about getting better as a player? I was super lucky.
You know, my high school coach, I mentioned Donnie Campbell, you know, he gave me a key to the gym and so I was able to get into the gym, get up shots if they were doing, you know, any camps or any other sport was in there. I would, he would let me go in side gym. And so I was always kind of had that, that access.
And then, and then, you know, when in the summer seasons with the Pumas and in that program, Scott Wedman, you know, I would go basically right from school, I'd go home, I'd get a snack, and then I would drive about 45 minutes north in Kansas City, where I'm originally from, and I would work out with coach Wedman and kind of just one on one workout for about an hour. And then after that we would have our team practice and that would go for probably two hours there at night.
And then I would get home around 9pm so, you know, in our school went later. So in spring ball, we were traveling in April, so it really started kind of as soon as we could after our high school season. So that was kind of the routine. There was, you know, three, four times a week I was right after school, I was driving up and then I was there for about three or four hours. And then on the days that I wasn't, I was in, in our high school gym shooting or doing whatever I could there.
So it was a lot. But it was one of those things where you look back on it and you think, man, that was a big time commitment. But it was just like, this is what I do. Um, so obviously it didn't end up paying off. Um, but yeah, that was that I was super, super fortunate to have really good coaches and really good individual trainers. Probably in a time before the trainer became a thing, you know, which probably feels like best six or seven years, you know, now everybody's got a trainer now.
So for sure, I, I was going. To say you were a little bit ahead of your time with having the opportunity to work with Wedman on that individual basis. You think about, as you said, the way the training business has exploded and the way the kids that you're coaching today, the amount of time that they're spending working with trainers compared to the average person back in the time when you were playing.
What do you remember about those conversations during the time when you were working with Wedman? Forget about like the basketball side of it, the drills and the things you were doing. But what, what were some of the things that he was talking to you about just in terms of trying to pass along the knowledge that he had, obviously of being an NBA player and playing at a super high level? Yeah, you know, when I was in my 16 new year, I played up on a 17U team.
And I played with a lot of players that ended up going Division 1 at a pretty high level. Clint Mann ended up going to Iowa State, Garrett Stutz played at Wichita State, and a couple other guys went Division one on our team. And so I was the young guy on that team that was more playing a role. So then when I came back, I kind of just had that mentality on when I. When we came back, and it was like it was going to be my team, I guess you could say.
And so a lot of it was centered around that being like, you're not just. You're not passing up shots anymore. You are hunting them. You're like, we almost want you to take bad shots. And so that, that was kind of the mentality flip of rather than always making the right play, you know, what the team might have needed at the time was for me to go make something happen. And so, you know, that was, that was an interesting flip, but it was also kind of, what to your point?
Those conversations during our workouts and then also during practice were just preparing me to, to showcase what I could do to then get to the next level and continue that way. And that wasn't easy, you know, just to switch your mindset, I guess. But it obviously, it really, really helped. And that was a huge, huge part of my development for sure, was the mental side with him. All right, I'll ask you a personal question.
So my daughter was a freshman on her high school team this year that was kind of a senior dominated team. She basically was. Her role was to come in and defend and move the ball to the next person. I've spent since last off season until right now having those same conversations. It sounds like that Scott Wedman was having with you in terms of getting you to kind of shift. Hey, you gotta do stuff. You're no longer just a person. Stand there.
So if you gave me one piece of advice that you remember something that stuck with you or how you turn the corner. What. What is it? What can I. What can I tell my daughter? If it was funny? I went, I went one game. I was, I was six for six from the field. And he was like, that's an issue. He said, he said that that means you're only taking unbelievably, perfectly great shots. Like, if it's a, if it's a decent shot, take the decent shot.
Like, you just have to, like, it was, it was even like, if you take a bad shot, I'm gonna clap. If you pass up anything. Like, we're Gonna run, you know, so it was. It wasn't even necessarily one thing. It was just chopping wood a little bit to kind of one thing after another. Like every time he saw something, it was like, boom, boom. No, like, no, no, no. Yes. So, yeah, I can't say it was necessarily one thing. Uh, but yeah, it was definitely. It was a process for sure. You down.
It sounds like that's what it was. Wearing you down. Wearing you down. To build you up. That. That was. That was the way. All right, tell me a little bit about the recruiting process, what that was like for you. And then ultimately the decision to attend Nebraska. Yeah, recruiting was a little bit different then than it is now. You weren't allowed to text, and I think calls were limited to one call a week. And then there was like, certain periods where you could get up to two calls a week.
And so that sophomore to junior year was a few people just calling, sending things. You would get mail way more because you couldn't send a graphic through text. So much less like direct conversations than it was, you know, just receiving different things in the mail. And then that junior to senior spring and summer is when things really took off. You know, just. I was a 6 foot 9, 6, 10, 4, 5. I could shoot a little bit, I could handle a little bit.
I wasn't like an amazing athlete, but I wasn't a bad athlete. So, you know, just started to kind of get the attention. And then once the first offer came in, I believe it was Drake that offered me. Mark Phelps was the head coach at the time. Kareem Richardson was the assistant recruiting me. And once that one came in, it was almost like a. The floodgates open up a little bit. And then, you know, the. The live periods, the recruiting periods, there were more of them and they were longer.
So there was just way more opportunities for coaches to. To be in the gym and see. See us play. And so my sister actually ran track at Nebraska, so I was familiar with it. And then, you know, was starting to take some, like, unofficial visits and seeing campuses and things and. And all those, you know, kind of during the end of that summer before school year started and was narrowing in and, you know, I. Nebraska was definitely in the. They were in the Big 12 at the time.
So I had grown up in Big 12 country in Kansas, and so that was super intriguing to me. I had some offers out at Stanford and Cal and Marquette and some things in different areas of the country, but the opportunity to play at Kansas and to play at Iowa State and at Texas and The teams I grew up watching, you know, was, was awesome. Plus the familiarity, having my sister there. It was far enough away from home, about three hour drive, but not too far away. A lot of things came into it.
But then, you know, it's. I believe it was August or so when people could start calling two times a week. And then it was your, you were on your cell phone and the home phone would ring and so then you'd call the person back on the home phone and then your cell phone would ring and, and that was. It was like all day, every day there for a little while and it was just like, all right, I think I know where I want to go.
And at this point I'm just spending my day on the phone and I think I know what I want to do here. And the coach at the time was Doc Sadler and they did an awesome job recruiting me and building a great relationship, the assistants and everybody and had been to campus a few times and so finally kind of shut everything down probably earlier than, than most would have, you know, before taking official visits and all that good stuff was the most difficult. No. That'S a really good question.
Probably Greg Marshall at Wichita State, like I mentioned, a friend of mine that played AAU with me that was a year older had gone there and was having a good experience and they were, you know, they were still in the Valley at the time and winning 28 to 30 games and, and Coach Marshall's an intense dude obviously. And they, and coach Jans, Chris Jans was the assistant recruiting me at the time.
So obviously they had a heck of a staff there that, that was just doing a great job and that was probably the toughest one for me and it was, you know, in state and all that fun stuff. But I think at the end of the day I knew, I knew I was making the right choice for me. And into your freshman year, what are you thinking about academically, career wise?
Are you the typical 18 year old that you kind of have no idea what you're going to do and you're kind of focused on playing hoops, obviously mentioning Cal and Stanford, obviously you're really good student. But just where was your mindset at as you were, as you were entering school? Yeah, so I actually knew what I wanted to study. I was a broadcast journalism major.
Funny enough being on a podcast now, you know, so I, I enjoyed everything with whether they, the behind the camera stuff, producing, putting, putting edits together, you know, the weatherman stuff. Like we were doing all that stuff for our high school TV show. And so I, I kind of fell in love with that. So I knew exactly what I wanted to do that way and that, that actually helped obviously with some of the, the college stuff was that I, that's what I wanted to study.
So kind of going in, I had, I had an idea of what I wanted to do and you know, it was a pretty unique deal. Not everybody's just, yeah, broadcast journalism, but, but yeah, that I way which yeah, made me probably a little bit more unique, especially at, at the higher levels. At all on your radar at this point or. No. Probably not right away as like going into college. That probably developed later on. I knew even with the broadcast journalism stuff, I wanted to be around basketball.
You know, like if I were in broadcast journalism, my, my golden dream or whatever would have been like being on college game day, you know, and doing that type of stuff or being a play by play or color commentator or something like that. I think would have been the dream job that way. But I knew I wanted to be around basketball so that the coaching piece definitely developed later on in college.
But yeah, that was more so my junior senior year where I started to kind of have those thoughts about it. What's your favorite memory on or off the court from your time at Nebraska? Oh, wait, I, I loved my time in Nebraska every, every year, every second. There was a lot of, a lot of change there when I was there.
After my sophomore year we switched to the Big Ten so, you know, the opportunity to play at one university and kind of develop at one university and, but still also have the opportunity to play at all of those cool places in the Big 12 and in the Big 10. I mean you're talking about some of the, the most historic places in the country and without transferring, I, I was able to do that.
I think that was pretty cool, especially looking back at the landscape now, you know, on the court, for sure, we beat, on my sophomore year, we beat Texas when they were ranked number one. They had an awesome team. I think it was Avery Bradley and Jordan Hamilton and Tristan Thompson. Like they were loaded and they were ranked number one and we beat them at home and rushed the court and all that. You know, that was, that was pretty cool.
But yeah, I mean I just, I really enjoyed my time in Nebraska overall. I mean there's good people, I had a lot of good coaches. I, you know, went through coaching changes even during my time and you know, just that whole environment was, was great for me and, and was awesome for my development on and off the court. Tell me about something from one of your college coaches that you took with you that you still feel like is a part of who you are today as a coach.
Whether it's a personal characteristic, whether it's just the way they went about their business, whether it's something that they specifically taught you that you still think about and share with guys that you're coaching today, just what's something that stands out to you that you still carry with you from your time as a player at Nebraska? Yeah, that's an awesome question. I'll give you a couple answers because I played for a couple different guys.
Doc Sadler, he, he was, we were a very defensive minded team. We were an extremely tough team. We, we grounded out at times offensively, but you knew what we were going to do. You know, we were going to guard you, we were going to be tough, we were going to be physical. And I was not that coming in. I was, some could say I was soft. You know, I was the skilled shooting big, you know, stereotypical that guy. So just the, you know, it's, you probably don't appreciate it as much while you're in it.
But then when you look back now, especially as a coach taking that, you know, his principles and just getting us to buy into exactly what we were going to do and be flying around and committed to it and we did not budge on our, on our system like we were going to do what we were going to do and we were going to do it better than anybody else. And, and so that I think, you know, you look back on that now as a coach and you're just like, man, we played really hard for that dude.
And I think a lot of that went into, he was really tough on us on the court, but he had built these relationships and you knew he cared about you, you know, off the court. And as soon as, as soon as that, that four hours was done at times, which was a long day or two hours or hour and a half, whatever we went, you, you knew like he was able to do such a good job of, of switching that, flipping that switch to then you know, check in with you and make sure everything's good.
You know, you knew he cared. And that made you play even harder for him with, with coach Miles. I think Tim Miles, who I played for my senior year, he, when he came in, it was a very similar thing with Scott Wedman was just the, the power of belief, right Is what he gave me saying that no, you can be, you can be one of our best players, you can be a go to guy. We're Gonna put the ball in your hands. You can do these things.
So kind of that evolution of being one of the guys to one of, like a guy on the team again, I think then that really propelled me to be a pro and be in, like, be given an opportunity to play in Europe. And I've always remembered that, you know, that his. The power of just one coach. It can be an assistant, it can be a head coach, can be anybody. To truly and fully believe in a player and give that to them, I mean, that's special.
So I think that's definitely something that I've taken from him, is to always make sure I remember. I'm telling the guys that I'm working with and the guys on the team like, nah, man, like, you are awesome. You are a really good player. You can do X, Y and Z for us and making sure that they know that every day. And I think that's something I really took from him.
It's really an important lesson to remember, and it's sort of an offshoot of something that I've talked about with lots of different coaches on the podcast, Brandon, and that is that when you think about yourself as a coach and the interactions that you have with players, you have things that when you think about your time as a player that coaches said to you that you remember that you're going to carry with you for the rest of your life, that had an impact, are probably continuing to have an
impact, and are going to have an impact on you for the rest of your life. And yet, probably if you went back and you asked one of those coaches, hey, do you remember when you said X to me, Chances are that coach has no recollection of that particular interaction.
And I think sometimes as coaches or my day job as a teacher, I think sometimes you forget that your words do have that kind of power that you just described, where here's a guy who just believed in you, told you you could do it, said, hey, you're capable of doing this. And that gave you the strength, the mentality, the ability to then go out and do those things. And it speaks to the power of our words as coaches, as teachers that we sometimes forget.
Now, kids don't remember everything we say, obviously, we wish. We certainly wish they did, but they certainly pick and choose. And there's things that, again, may seem innocuous to us that they end up taking with them that has an impact on them for the rest of their lives.
And it's always one of the things that I try to keep in mind whenever I'M interacting with, whether it's players or students, is that somebody I could be talking to, someone who 20 years from now, 30 years from now is going to be having a conversation just like this and saying, hey, I remember when Coach Cleansing said this to me. And, man, that really had an impact on me in the moment, and it's continuing to have an impact on me.
And I think sometimes we forget how powerful those words can be as a coach. No question. I mean, that's nailed it on the head right there. I mean, it's. Yeah, I've heard it from a few different people, but when you get it, when you experience it or you see it firsthand, it can kind of change your view on some of those things and on what sticks with you.
Like you said, it can be something that, like you said, it's just we might forget it or not even remember that we said that or did that for somebody, but it meant something. And, and that's, it's. You try to remember to that that can happen, you know, because I know, like, you know, you know, you know how it is in the season. You can just kind of get into this malaise and this, this routine of scouts practice shots up, scouts practice shots, like all those things.
And, and you can forget to just like, have a real conversation with somebody, you know, about, like, hey, how's your family doing? Like, you know, and just, do you want to go, you know, grab a bite to eat quick? You know, and just something small like that that might feel small is really big for some guys. And trying to remember that through winning games, you know, is difficult at times, but the more we can do that, I think those two things are very, very correlated. That's 100% right.
And as you said, it's sometimes difficult to see through the haze of winning and losing and the grind of what a season involves and the amount of time that everybody's putting in to try to win as many games as possible. And it's important to sometimes step back, right? To remember that that human touch of everybody's, everybody needs something. Everybody needs that kind of human connection in that relationship.
And when you can step back and remember that, I think everybody ends up in a better place. And more often than not, you win more games. When you build better relationships, right? When you have, whether that's player, coach relationships, whether that's coach, coach relationships, whether it's player to player relationships, when you have a team that is strong in all those areas, you end up, I think, with a better record on the floor, wins and Losses.
And you also end up with a better experience when you have all those kinds of positive relationships. When you finish at Nebraska, obviously you get an opportunity to go and play overseas. So walk me through from the time your season ends as a senior at Nebraska, how do you go about taking those steps that were necessary to get yourself that opportunity to play overseas? Yeah, kind of during the season, probably pretty similar to how it is now.
There's agents that start hitting you up, maybe for different reasons, but yeah. So, you know, some, some agents had just said, you know, we'd love to talk to you after the season and you know, about representation and those types of things. And coach Miles had. Has had quite a few guys that went overseas and, and played at a pretty high level in Europe.
And so he, he had some connections there and knew some people that, you know, he could kind of help guide me or at least say, like, yeah, I know that person and I know they do a good job or I don't know them at all, which is almost just as good of advice. So started to kind of have those conversations and then fairly quickly, you know, had found, you know, representation signed with Adam and Ben Pensack. They have kind of their own.
It's a smaller, at the time, a smaller agency, more so focused on Europe. Right. Some of the bigger agencies are. They can be humongous, you know, and they've got their NBA sector and they've got their Asia and Europe and all that stuff. And I kind of knew my game and those types of things would really fit well and fit best in Europe. And so I knew that, you know, somebody that was really dialed in there, you know, would probably be the best thing for me.
And then from there it was, you know, kind of just, hey, here's a, here's a few opportunities. What do you think of this? And I mean, it's a little bit like recruiting process, you know, maybe a little less relationship based and more. So here's the money, here's the opportunity, here's the country, here's what I think. What do you think?
And then in the next four or five days, you're either saying yes or no. So a little bit like, like the transfer portal probably for a lot of people now, that little bit like speed dating. But. But yeah, it was, it was a little bit like that. And so actually pretty quick, I had signed with a team in Belgium, in Brussels, and had, you know, kind of had locked that in before I think school was even done, which is pretty unique.
Once you get into the Europe world, typically you're signing your contract June or July or agreeing to your, your deals later in the summer. And so had kind of locked that up pretty quickly and, and so then I could really just focus on staying in shape, working out, making sure I was ready when I got over there. Any concerns, worries?
As a 22 year old guy going overseas by yourself to a new country, just what was your thought process in terms of, hey, I'm, this is my, this is my quote, first real job. It's still basketball, but you're going overseas to a new country that I assume you hadn't been to before. So what was the thought process in that? Forget about the basketball side of it. Just culturally going to Europe and playing in a new place.
I think you're crazy if you say you're not nervous going over there your first time or even anytime for that matter, because a lot of it, you're having a phone conversation, maybe a zoom or Skype back then, but you know, you're, you're going over and you're going to be playing with, playing for, living it like with people you don't know and have never met. So that obviously there's some hesitations there that, you know, you just are in the back of your mind.
But also I think a big part of it that people forget is like, you know, just going to the grocery store and trying to figure out is this milk or is this buttermilk that I'm gonna put on my cereal? And buttermilk is bad on cereal if anybody's wondering. So, you know, there's definitely some things there that you know, you're nervous about and you're wondering like, well, what's, where am I gonna go get new basketball shoes? Where am I gonna do all these things?
And you're just gonna have to figure it out. And I was definitely more excited than I was nervous. There's no question about that. But yeah, there's some things that are in the back of your head. But I, you know, I was fortunate enough that my, my dad growing up, his work had taken him overseas quite a bit for travel. So that was. While I hadn't done that a ton, that was something that was just an as an idea was familiar. And so I knew there were good people everywhere.
You know, just from that having my dad do that. So, you know, had just known that there's good people everywhere and you can figure it out. You just got to go do it and you got to go figure it out. And so, so yeah, I mean it was, I was two feet in that's for sure. And just, just went for it. Your favorite city that you got a chance to visit while you were there. Got a chance to visit. Oh, boy. So what I did, I tried.
There's like a two week period or a week and a half period every, I think February or so where the national teams get together and they're playing, you know, either qualifying events or something of the sort. So I would try during that, like week and a half, we would get four or five days off or so, and I would try and go somewhere that I hadn't been. And then after the season, I think a lot of people, it's like a 10 or 11 month season sometimes, so your first thought is, I'm going home.
And I would always make it a point to take a week and try and go somewhere. So I have been, I was fortunate enough and blessed, you know, in every way to be able to do it. But I've been a lot of really cool places. My favorite probably is Greece. Going to Athens to visit, that was, I mean, very, very cool. Just the history, the food, the beaches, the, the islands, every. I mean, how can you, how can you say no to that? All right, this is the question.
I prepped you for your craziest European basketball story, the best one we've ever had on the podcast. I don't know if you're going to be able to top it, Brandon, because it was, it was pretty crazy. But I'm, I'm, I'm waiting to hear yours. Okay. So I, and mine might be a little bit different that way. You know, I told my agent pretty early on in my career after hearing probably a lot of the similar crazy horror stories like keep me in Western Europe, keep me where they're.
They pay on time and keep me where nothing's screwy and I'll be right. Sounds right. So I don't have any experiences like that, but insane deal less related to basketball. But I was living in Brussels, I don't know if you remember. So the, there was the shootings in Paris, right? And so there was. That had happened and they fled to Brussels. The shooters did. So for about four or five days, the city shut down, right?
And they were on like a manhunt in the city and there were tanks going through the streets. They're banging on doors. They're coming into your apartment searching, like, and, and so wondering what's going on. I'm living in a foreign country. They're looking for these guys. Are they next door? I mean, and then. So that was crazy. City shuts down for however long. Bad situation. But okay. So then I think four or five months later, the airport and the train and the tram stop is bombed in Brussels.
And so at the time, my sister and her husband were visiting me, and so we had morning practice. So I drive to morning practice, and as soon as I get there, it's 8am and we get there and everybody's huddled up and they tell us what happened. Airport, tram stop, train station. I call my sister because they don't have a phone. And their plan was, we're walking down to the tram, we're going to take it into the city, and we're going to do a couple things today while I was at practice.
And so I'm like, they're not answering, they're not answering, they're not answering. Finally get a hold of them. They hadn't left yet, thank God, because two stops down was the tram stop that had gotten bombed. Right? So, you know, talking about, like, literally down the street from me, and. And so in terms of a panic and family was in town visiting, and, you know, just then you're wondering, like, okay, is this over? Are we safe? Are we good? Like, should my. Should they fly?
Should they leave? Should they stay for two more weeks? You know, it was just. That was insane, obviously. So very scary situation. So that's probably a little different than you might have been expecting, but going through that. And then, you know, two days after that happened, we were playing a game in our arena. And so going there, you're thinking, like, all right, like, this is a large gathering of people.
Like, this is a sporting event, you know, and so there was definitely, for a couple weeks there, you know, there was a lot of, you know, just. That was kind of in the back of your mind, even as you're, like, warming up for a game, which is, you know, probably not the headspace that you need to be in, but. But, yeah, that was. That was definitely crazy. It takes, I think, a while to be able to, I would imagine, put that behind you.
And even, as you said, for a long, long time, I'm sure that it was in the back of your head. I mean, I know, remember after even 9, 11. And you just. It took a long time for you to be able to see a plane or hear a plane and not have your first immediate thought, go to September 11th. And so I'm sure for you to be in a place where you obviously had spent a lot of time, and I'm sure been to those very places where that occurred, and then to have that.
To have that happen and then double it with your sister being in town. And it just, Yeah, I can only imagine how. Trying to then put that behind you and, and focus on basketball. As you said, when you go into a, a big public gathering and, you know, looking around and saying, oh, boy, that's, you know, hopefully, hopefully this is about, this is behind us. So, yeah, that's a, that's a, that's definitely a. Definitely a crazy story for sure.
All right, let's transition into the coaching profession. So tell me about how you go from. How's the playing career sort of wraps up and what's the thought process as. As the playing career is coming to an end? Getting into coaching. Yeah. So my fifth season overseas, I was playing in France. You know, I was fortunate enough. You know, I was playing really well and playing at a high level and France is one of the, the best leagues in the world. It was a ton of fun.
And about two weeks left in the season, you know, third quarter screen and roll, go up to catch the ball. You know, you land and you're going to finish and right knee, just boom. And acl, mcl, meniscus, patella and broke my leg. I mean, you talk about what else, what else could happen? Nothing. It was all done. And so honestly, at that moment, I had no intentions of not playing. You know, I was going to continue to play.
You know, I was going to come back from this or whatever and rehab, recover and. And so, you know, I was going through the. Had surgery, going through PT and Coach Miles was still at Nebraska and so spent, you know, went up there after. Once I was kind of cleared to start doing some basketball, things kind of went up there and he was, I mean, he's been my, probably one of my closest mentors friends ever since I graduated. And you know, he just, he let me come to practice every day.
He let me be in the office, he let me be in film. He let me do, I mean, what not many people would let you do. And so my intent, right, was I'm going to rehab, I'm going to practice, I'm going to get back in shape and then I'm going to sign and I'm going to go back overseas.
And I think it was maybe January, February time, and I'm thinking about things and like, you know, I'm on the phone with my girlfriend at the time, my wife now, and you know, we're talking about, hey, what, you know, how did today go? And I would say two or three minutes about, you know, oh, Yeah, I got some shots up and then we practiced and then I would go for 30 or 40 minutes about.
I was talking with Coach Miles about this thing for scheme wise, and then I was watching film with this assistant, and then we were, you know, going over their playing for the game and. And that was 30 to 40 minutes of the conversation. And it was funny, you know, one day she was just like, do you, like, do you hear yourself right now? Like, you know, you're clearly more invested, more excited, more, more into the. This other side of the game than you are about playing.
And it was like one of those realizations of, like, you are 100% right. I am. And it wasn't even a physical thing, right, that I wasn't able to come back. It was just there, you know, that mentality shift of like, man, I'm more excited about that. And so kind of made the decision that I wanted to get into coaching.
And Craig Smith was an assistant of mine in Nebraska my senior year, and after that had gotten the head coaching job at South Dakota, was there for four years, and then at the time, he was at Utah State, right when I'm. When I'm rehabbing and all that. And so he, he ended up having a spot open up as a GA for him at Utah State. And he was like, well, would you be interested? And I was like, yeah. He was like, well, scale of 1 to 10, like, if, you know, are you. Are you like a nine?
I was like a ten. Like, I'm doing this. And he was like, all right, like, let's do it. Let's. And so, you know, less than a month later, I'm moving out to Logan, Utah, which, you know, for me, I flew over and lived in Belgium and France and different cities. And like, this was the simplest move that I'd ever made in my life. Like, I'm just going to go out to Utah. That's easy.
So, yeah, that was kind of the main transition was just, you know, I, I finally realized came, you know, fortunately, my wife had that conversation with me of just like, that's where my passion was now, you know, and it was with. With playing and hooping and doing that for the longest time, but things had changed and. And that's where I was now. And so, you know, kind of dove right in, you know, what she was. Getting into with the life of a coach's wife. I don't know.
I don't know if either of us knew exactly, but they. We definitely had a lot of those conversations right before we even got engaged. Was just like, this is what I want to do. And you know, she is the, she's the absolute best. I mean everything, you know, we've moved. I think there was a stretch there where we moved to three different houses within a calendar year and, and we're just, you know, rolling with it. And she's been awesome through the whole deal and my biggest supporter by far.
So that, that has been awesome through everything obviously. But to say we knew exactly what we were getting into, probably I don't think anybody knows, but as close as we could understood. High school and middle school basketball program directors. Listen closely. Coaches are expected to do far more than just coach. You know this. It doesn't matter if you're doing the coaching yourself or you have a full staff of coaches with you.
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Coaching. Let's find out if the programs from Playmaker Planner can be a complement to what you're already doing. Visit playmakerplanner.com stop. Is this for you to find out more? What was it about coaching at the very beginning in that first experience at Utah State, when you think back to that first year, what was it about coaching that if you could pinpoint it down to one or two things that really hooked you, that you're like, yeah, this is what I want to do, this is why I want to do it.
What were those things? Yeah, I think there's a few, there's a few things that really clicked. And I think, you know, as a player you, you get better yourself and you start to notice things or whatever. But then when you're on the other side of it and you're helping, you're working somebody out and you're working on these one or two things for the longest time and then they do it in a game and it works and then they kind of look over at you like, hey, like, remember that.
And I'm like, yeah, like, that's what we've been doing. That's why we do this and that. I think, you know, the first time that that happened, you know, and, And. And those guys at Utah State, I was able to, you know, be on the pad with them and work those guys out and get in the gym with them as a G A. And so, you know, just the first time that I was able to say, like, hey, you know, like, catch it a little bit higher. And then you can. You got more room to spin back.
You know, he's playing you on the high side. So then the next time down, he does it and he kind of looks over and it's like, okay, that right there, like, that is. You get this rush of like, man, I just helped him out, you know, and that. I think the. That has been the biggest thing in terms of the light bulb. It was just like when you're working with somebody and it's the long game for sure, but then you start to see things click for. For a kid and they're starting to.
To make those steps and to add things into their game and start to have more and more success and more belief in themselves. I think that's been the biggest thing to see. And to. You kind of get that joy out of that, for sure. I think that when you talk about. Right. It's that light bulb coming on where players. Or again, I equate it back to being a teacher, students, you're teaching them something, you're showing them something, you're trying to explain to them why it's valuable.
They don't necessarily see it right away. And then that moment where suddenly it clicks and they're like, oh, yeah, now I get it. And yeah, I think as. As a coach, that's one of. For sure. When you talk about from an individual standpoint, right, of impacting somebody on the floor, I think that's one of the things that a lot of coaches would say is. Is a high for them, right?
That the player getting that thing that you've been working on over and over and over again, and then finally it clicks for them in a game situation. That's definitely one of those things that, you know, just lights you up as a coach. But also, again, the player starts to look and I think looks at you in a different way as a coach, too. They're like, hey, maybe this guy's not as dumb as I thought he was. He really does. He really does know something. He is able to add some.
Add some value to what they're doing. What about from an X's and O standpoint, Brandon? Thinking about how you thought the game as a player versus how you have to think the game as a coach? I guess my question is, while you were playing, did you think about the game and try to process it from a coaching perspective? In other words, maybe trying to understand what all five guys on the floor are doing and how the scheme fit into the overall plan or philosophy of what you were trying to do?
Or were you more just like, hey, here's my job, I've got to do that as a player and then just talk about maybe the shift from understanding the schemes and the X's and O's philosophy from how you thought about it as a player to how you had to think about it as a coach? Yeah, you know, I think the longer that I played, the more those types of things kind of click for you. So I would say probably more so.
When I was playing in Europe, you start to really understand, you know, not just what I'm doing all the time, but like what, everything, what's happening, you know, what's happening behind you, what happened in front of you, you know, and you, you start to see how everything is connected and then that even trickles into like practice, right? You start to understand, like, okay, well, you know, we had three really light practices leading up to this game and we did not play well. We were soft.
And you start to like, kind of correlate things like that the longer that you play. And the one thing, you know, as a player myself, I was never this unbelievable athlete. I was never like just a dead eye shooter, you know, So I had, I was solid in a lot of things, but I wasn't elite at any one thing. So I had to find those other advantages, you know, and, and so I kind of craved and needed the, the scouting, the, those little like, advantage type things that, that coaches provide.
And so even as a player, I really value those things because that's where I could potentially beat some of these guys that were naturally more gifted than I was. And so kind of knowing that, like, that's where I got a lot of my success from. Then, you know, stepping into coaching from that X's and O standpoint to see, you know, where you can get your advantages.
I think that's, you know, as I played that that really kind of transitioned really well into that, that coaching and understanding and valuing just the minute detail that can get you two points, right? That can just. Or take away two points of theirs that can help you win the game. And so, yeah, I think it definitely clicked for me a little bit the longer I played. But then once you really to the coaching side, then you really are like, oh, you know, your, your eyes are broadened out. Right.
Trying to figure out how to win on the margins. Right. I think a lot of times the player you're seeing, maybe if you're thinking about the big picture, you're thinking about it really from a 360 degree view. You're, you're high up, it's a 30,000 foot looking down. Whereas in the coaching profession, right, you're looking for every single little edge. Maybe as a player you're doing that again, but you're doing it more for yourself.
You're not necessarily thinking about how you can do that for the other four guys on the floor. But once you get to coaching now, you're talking about all those little margins that if you can win all the margins, a lot of times that translates in the difference between losing a game by two and winning a game by two.
Yeah. And I think too kind of remembering what you, what, what you saw and what you felt as a player, trying not to forget that piece too, because it's really easy on film to say, see, that guy's open, right? But we're able to pause, we're able to see this window, but that happens so fast. And to just keep that in mind of like, all right, I've been asked to do this before. I know how hard this is, but I know it can be done.
But I also understand, like, if I'm asking you to do something that's really difficult, I do need to keep that in mind because I know I've been asked to do this before. And it's a 50, 50 shot here, just if we're being honest, because there are some things that we're going to do as a coach that, you know, I hope this works.
So, you know, just, I, I do think trying to keep that, that mentality in the back of my mind has been really, really useful to be able to then talk to the players, to tell them, like, listen, I know this is difficult. I know this is hard, but I also know that this can be done. I know that if we do this right, it's going to work and then, okay, then they're, then they can buy into it and, and understand rather than just, you know, militarism all the time. So. Right.
And I think that's being able to have that understanding I could think back to again. I played a long, long Long time ago. But I can think back to moments like listening to you just describ situation of talking about the window and knowing as a player like you're watching it on film. And I can remember sitting on my stool in the locker room watching VHS tapes, being, trying to be rewound back to plays and just whatever, but.
And thinking and seeing it on film, just being like, yeah, like I know it's there in that split second that we paused the tape, but the reality is, is that almost what you're asking me to do in that situation, there's so many different things going on that like you can't. And it's interesting when you think about decision making, right, that nobody's going to make a decision correctly 100% of the time.
And even if they did, what you might think is the right decision as a coach on the sideline might not actually be the right decision for the player in that particular moment with their skill set or with what they see and whatever else it could be. And I think that when you talk about decisions, it's more like the cumulative effect of all the decisions. Do they get us to the outcome that we're trying to get to?
And I think sometimes it is easy, as you said as a coach to forget what players see and how fast the game is moving when they make a decision.
And so that's where I think, right, the learning process and talking about the margins and the things that you can show a player that are going to help them to make the correct decision more frequently, but with the understanding that a hundred percent correct decisions are probably A impossible and B, we probably don't even agree on what that, on what that correct decision is every single time.
So yeah, it is interesting to think about it from that perspective in terms of trying to teach and help your players and ultimately your team to, to get to whatever it is the outcome that you want, whether it's offensively or defensively, however that may, however that may go. So tell me about going to Utah. Yeah, so two awesome years at Utah State. Unique years. Our first one won the, won the Mountain west tournament championship. Sam Merrill hits the shot at the buzzer to beat San Diego State.
Then the tournament gets canceled. You know, that was, that was a special group that probably could have, could have done something in the, in the NCAA tournament. Then the next year being Covid year, another great year and a great team. Definitely a different looking team, but we made the tournament as an at large. So, you know, and the year before I had gotten there, they had made The NCAA tournament as well. So three straight NCAA tournaments for Craig. Two that I was able to be a part of.
And so then he, he got the job at Utah. And you know, I was obviously fortunate enough to, to be hired there. I was the director of scouting. That was a brief time that I was there. I was only there for, I think it was like seven months or something crazy.
But I mean, it was, it was definitely a learning experience because, you know, you're just all right now, you're, now your expectations are through the roof, you know, and now we're recruiting a different caliber of player, we're playing against a different caliber of player and coach, and it's night in, night out.
You know, there were no, the biggest difference that, that we saw was, you know, not that there were nights off, but I mean, if you came with your B plus game, you were probably going to lose versus, you know, at Utah State, we had some really, really talented teams and there were nights maybe we didn't play our best, but we could still win. And so getting up to that level, I mean, it's just, you know, it's a, it's a brutal grind for sure.
But in terms of that opportunity, I mean, it was awesome. I mean, that was my first full time gig and so I was able to work in a lot of different aspects. You know, as a ga, I was doing a lot of operation stuff. So then as the director of scouting at Utah, I was taking on more of a role of helping with some scouts and helping with recruiting. You know, I wasn't on the road, I wasn't calling kids and doing that stuff, but I, I was helping out with the process.
So I was kind of expanding my roles and what I, what I could do there and all. Working obviously for an awesome coach, an awesome person. So, so that was great. Our team that first year wasn't awesome, but it was a really fun group to be around. That's the one thing about Craig Smith that, that I've always loved is like the people that he attracts and the, the practice and the environment that he, he provides. Every day is a joy to be around, a joy to be a part of literally every day.
I don't know how he does it. It could be the, could be the cups of coffee he has. He. He has a couple every day. And so I've probably taken after him a little bit that way, but. But no, I, I loved, loved being there. We loved living in Salt Lake. It's an awesome city, it's an awesome town.
So wish we could have been there longer, but obviously a great opportunity came up for me to be an assistant coach and on the road recruiting and, you know, being hands, hands on for the first time at South Dakota. Yeah. Talk about just being able to take on that full time role and be able to be on the floor, be able to recruit, to be able to do all the things.
When somebody thinks about the role that an assistant coach has, you're stepping up into all of those different opportunities to be able to grow yourself and, and really work on your craft. So just talk about how that's impacted you, just your own growth as a coach to be able to have that more responsibility that you've had at South Dakota.
Yeah, I mean, I think when you're not, when you're not on the, on the floor, you're not presenting the scout, you're not in, you haven't watched all the games and you haven't cut it all yourself. I think it's easy to have an opinion of what you think. Like, man, we should have done this, right? But then when, when you are, when it's yours, right? It's, you know, you're the one recruiting the, the kid.
You're the one that's, you know, you've watched all this stuff or you're, you, you have the scout. It's just like you, you understand things way more fully to, to see the broader picture and fully grasp the, you know, the amount of work. But also, you know, there's, there's decisions that go into all of this stuff and you have to think things through fully and you got to really cover all your bases and make sure you're, you're really doing the work.
And, and I think that was a little bit eye opening, but also like exciting because it was like, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to like, be the one to, to make a decision there to, to say, this is the guy I believe in and, and here's his number or, you know, I think we should change our ball screen coverage for this and here is why, you know, and then let's do it. Let's execute it. Let's, let's work on it here in the next couple of days and then we're going to do it.
So that, that was, that was an awesome opportunity, but also kind of to your point, you know that there's, there's a lot, there's a big world that you're stepping into. You're not just helping someone with the decision. You are the, you're making that decision now. So taking on that responsibility and having the confidence in yourself and having the confidence in the work that you're putting in that, that. Yep, I, I've got this.
You know, I might not be right all the time, but, you know, I think the process, at least I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna believe in that. So how do you guys delegate roles there? Let's just say on the practice floor, in terms of, do you go offensive, defensive coordinators, everybody kind of coaching everything. Is it bigs versus bigs and wings and guards? How do you guys divide up the responsibility on your staff? Yeah, so we do, we do position groups. So I was a big, you know, so I coach the bigs.
We do big, big wings, guards. I'm sure that's pretty standard across the board. And then we do split up offensive coordinator and defensive. And then we play pretty unique style. We press. We're. We're number two tempo team in the country. And we pressed on every makes, misses, everything. So we had a guy that was in charge of the press portion of our defense. So I did, I did the, the half court defense. I did a lot of that stuff in the scouting reports and, and things that way.
So that's kind of how we divide it up. But as you know, everything is connected, so, you know, you can't make a decision over here that won't affect a decision over here. So the way that we played offense, the way that we pressed, we kind of all had to collaborate on those things to make sure. Right. Are these things making sense for us? You know, are these things the same to where our guys are going to be able to execute and do this every possession? Go along with that.
When you guys are talking through and having meetings about how you're going to design your practices, what does that look like in terms of how much input do you as an assistant coach have into what goes on? Are you guys watching the film from the previous day's practice and then thinking, hey, we got to work on this. Obviously, during the season, you're looking at game film and trying to figure out, hey, what do we need to work on between now and the next game?
But just what's the practice planning process like for you guys and staff? Yeah, our head coach definitely kind of has a, an outline of and kind of a general plan of what he wants to get done in that day. And then, you know, we kind of send. Whether it's a few thoughts or a few things that we think we need to get done, and then we'll all Meet and talk about, like, how can we get these things done? What, what can we tweak? Where can we. Should we do this?
Should we break this down into a half court thing first? Or should we just throw it and see what happens? You know? And so I would say there's definitely. There's a lot of ideas that come in. Our head coach has an idea of what he wants to get done that day, too. And then we kind of all talk things through and maybe make some tweaks to everything here and there. Just. But yeah, I think in terms of. We do watch the practices from the day before.
We do a version of the analytics stuff that the guys at Stanford, previously Washington State and San Francisco, and that whole, you know, where we're charting certain things and have certain values for, you know, defensive execution errors and deflections and steals and all that kind of stuff. So then we're able to see, like, all right, we had 17 screen and roll errors. Tomorrow we need to. We need to dial in on our screen and roll defense. So I think there's.
There's a little bit of both of those things going on all at once. I think the biggest thing, the biggest challenge, I guess, with that is trying not to skip steps, you know, and understanding, like, we don't have everything in, but it'll come if we, if we start from the bottom. We build up. Absolutely.
Because, I mean, there's just so many things you want to do, and it's hard to, to rein yourself back in and just say, okay, like, we'll get there eventually, but let's, let's work on, let's work on guarding the ball first. That is so funny, Brandon, because I think that, that sentiment that you just shared, I think you could talk to any coach at any level of basketball.
And I think about when I've coached my own kids, whether it's their travel team or AAU team and going back to third, fourth, fifth grade and just being like, man, if we could only get this in or we could only do that, and man, if we could have three practices a week instead of two, imagine how much could we could get done. And even now, like, I have. My. My daughter is, you know, who I told you about before. She's in. She's in ninth grade and coaching her AE team.
And I just help out with the team and the number of times that we'll. Our head coach will say to me, he's like, man, if I was a high school coach, I had the girls five days a week for an hour and A half or two hours. Could you imagine all the stuff that we could do? And I'm like, you just would want to do more. You would never, you would never feel like you had enough time. You'd always want to do more. And I think that's just endemic to the coaching profession.
And to your point, that goes to, obviously I asked you about the day to day planning, but what you're talking about goes to the bigger. I'm sure that's kind of what you guys are doing now, right? Is almost mapping out, knowing what the rhythm is from season to season of, hey, we know it's going to take again, every team is probably a little bit different, but we know it's going to take 10 days to be able to get in X. And then once we have that down, then we can add on Y and so forth.
And so it's kind of the, the daily practice planning is one thing, but then sort of the, the bigger picture of curriculum, for lack of a better way of saying it, of kind of what that rhythm is going to be like.
I'm sure that's what you guys are partly doing in the off season, is trying to plan out, hey, what does that look like over the summer in terms of the player development, then as we get into the fall and then obviously into the, the real meat of the preseason to be able to practice, to get your team ready to play a game. I'm sure that's all a piece of it. For sure. I mean, and that's you, you want to know what, what are we getting done today? But also what are we building to?
And it's just, man, we, you can't forget that in January when we're getting ready to play South Dakota State and we're playing them in two days.
And you know, we want to, we want to add this thing and we want to take this away, but we also, like, we gotta keep, we gotta keep making sure we're really good at what we do, you know, and that's, that's the thing that's like, you kind of got to always remind yourself is like, especially nowadays where I think you have so many teams that are going to have so many new guys every year, it's really, it's rare that you're going to see a kid that's like, okay, I've been here for three years or four
years and so I know, I just know what's going on so you can get to all those things. You know, it's just, it's rare that we're Going to, you're going to see that now. So just trying to keep it as simple as possible while also being able to add where you need and to have your change up, have the curveball thing that can win you a game, because those things do win you games.
But also understanding, like, all right, if we play 31 games in our regular season, if we're really good at these four things, we'll probably win 26, you know, but if we start trying to be really good at 15 things, you know, then. Then are we, are we really going to be good enough? So that's, you know, that's, that's the battle constantly is just, you know, there are so many things that you can do, but should we, you know, and that's, that's the, that's the thought. Yeah, absolutely.
Especially in today's world where you can go and you can find, hey, check out this cool clip on Twitter. Hey, check out this thing that somebody's doing on YouTube or, man, we could really start looking at that. And again, I'm sure that you. Over the course of your career, I've talked to so many assistant coaches that again, they're just grabbing stuff and trying to build. Right.
Your portfolio of things that you're thinking about that maybe at some point, if you would were to get an opportunity to be a head coach, you're kind of building, hey, I like this, I like that. And there's, there's a million things that I can go through and scroll on Twitter for 15 minutes and be like, wow, I love that. That's cool. And let's try. Let's try this.
But to your point, you got to put the base in first and make sure that you're able to do the things that, you know, you need to do in order to be able to have the kind of success that you're talking about. If you can't do the four things that are the most important to you as a program, if you're just okay at thing 22, it's probably not. It's probably not going to help you win very many games.
As opposed to being good at the, the baseline things that you really, that you really need to be good at. To me, that always seems like it's clearly the most important thing.
Yeah. Before that, our, Our, the way we play with our press now has really cleared that up because there are things that are, they're all great, and these are, these are great things to do, but they don't fit with how we're playing, you know, and so that's been awesome to just be like, man, that was a. That was a really cool thing that they did defensively. But, like, we just. We're not going to do that because. Right, exactly. We're going to be pressing and we're going to be doing these things.
We're going to be creating more chaos. So. So it's been. It's been nice to be able to then, like, have that thought of, like, okay, regardless of what style of play you're playing, the things got to make sense. You know, they gotta. They gotta make sense together, whether that's offensively, defensively, or, you know, you're. We call them special teams. Right. Our end outs, side outs, things like that. They just. They got to be all connected. And that's been.
That's been one really clarifying thing, and it's been great for us. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. Right. That the style of play kind of dictates. All right. If we're going to do anything, it's got to be within the confines of this style of play, and it eliminates a lot of the shiny new toys that you might peek at over here. And you're like, yeah, that doesn't really fit what we're trying to do.
And obviously, as you're going up and down the floor, both offensively and defensively, you're playing a style of play that everybody. When. When you ask coaches, right, or when you ask players, how do you want to play, everybody says, right, we want to run. We want to play at a fast pace. That's what everybody says. And yet not everybody. Not every. Not everybody plays that way. And it takes a certain mentality.
And I'm always really impressed when I see teams that just get the ball down the floor offensively and teams that immediately can transition that. That quick transition from offense to defense or from defense to offense. When you're talking about a team that's playing the style like you guys, to me, that first half. Second, when there's a transition, whether it's a rebound, a steal, a made basket, going either direction, to me, that. Whatever. Half. Second.
Second in that transition is really, I'm sure, where you guys make your money. How do you teach that? It's. It's not easy. I think a lot of it starts this summer, and. Right. We got to get in shape because if you're playing that way, you're playing really hard and you're putting a lot of effort into both sides of the basketball. You know, pressing 94ft every possession takes it out of you. So I think that's the first thing.
But it's, it is a mentality, right, where there's going to be sloppiness, there's going to be. They're going to get a layup, right? They're going to get an open 3 on the back end of our press. It's going to happen. We hope it doesn't happen very much, but if it does, we like move on, right? It's got to be next play. Like we have to take the ball out of the net and go. Because how many teams do you watch that hit a three and they're all celebrating or whatever.
And if we have the right mentality, right, they're. Oh, and now they're two steps behind, right? So just, you know, and it starts in practice and it starts literally day one in practice of offensively, right. In a skill workout, guy misses a shot, hangs his head. Nope. You know, you gotta nip that in the bud right away because not only for that player's self confidence, but for how we're gonna play. Like no, man, you gotta move on, right?
We're going to have turnovers because we're playing so fast, right? We might, we might dribble it off our foot one time, like, and you got to move on, right? That's part of it. And so half of that is on our end of understanding, like mistakes are going to happen. We're going to give up a layup and that's okay.
Which is really hard to do as a coach, but then to instill that in the players and you know, it is fun once it's instilled because then the, you see their minds free up, you know, to where, okay, like I can make a mistake and, and it's not the end of the world. They can score and it's not the end of the world. I can miss a shot. It's not the end of the world. And so they're never going to look over their shoulder.
They're never going to wonder am I going to come out because I didn't do whatever, you know, now we have our non negotiables, of course, like anybody does. But I think once it clicks, you know, then your mind is freed to just play and play really hard and, and that's where, that's where we've kind of made our hay this last year. And that's really important as a player to not have to look over your shoulder.
I think you talk to any player who's played the game at any kind of a level and if you have to look over your shoulder because you think that buzzer is going to hit anytime you make a mistake. You and I both know that there's no way to play at your best when that's the way that you're playing the game. Looking over your shoulder, it just, it just doesn't work.
And if you can get that mentality out of your players and allow them to play free and loose and I think playing at a fast tempo, once you get them to, as you said, to train them to be able to, to make sure that that's, they all know what's expected of them, that then you have the best chance of getting the most out of them. All right, I want to ask you one final two part question before we get out of here.
Part one, when you think about the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge? Second part of the question, when you think about what you get to do every day, what brings you the most joy? So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy. Yeah, biggest challenge. That's an awesome question.
You know, I think the biggest challenge we've over, especially the next year or two, we've built over the last three years, started to build this, this culture and you know, building up to winning and we won 19 games last year and, and that was a great step forward. And now it's, now it's maintaining, it's making, making that a program. Right. Getting over the hump, getting to, you know, we want to win a championship, but we don't, we don't want to just win one time.
You know, we want to sustain it. We want to build to where we're winning year in, year out. And you, we all know who those programs are, you know, and you could look at a league and pick them out too. And that's, I think that's, it's the biggest challenge.
It's exciting because that's, I think we're in position to do it and we've brought guys back and we have, we have retained a ton over the last three years and including this season, you know, we haven't lost too much into the portal, which has been great. But I think that's the biggest challenges, is not just having success, but sustaining it year in, year out and continuing to bring in the right type of guys, the right people.
And then I would say the biggest joy is, is when we are able to do that. The guys that have come in and maybe they red shirted or maybe they transferred in because they didn't have an opportunity somewhere else. And to see them go from this in here and just blossom and getting that opportunity and them realizing it themselves, like, man, I'm getting way better, man, I have an opportunity. I have somebody that believes in me.
That has been the biggest joy for me, you know, and just a couple specific examples like Caleb Stewart, you know, he's kid from Houston. We recruited him out of the portal. Came from Louisiana Tech and just had a spot role, you know, was kind of in and out of the lineup. Came in and averaged almost 20 points a game for us. And it took him a little while to kind of be like, oh, like, I can, I can do that, I can shoot, I can. You want me to attack like that? Oh, okay.
And then just to see him like become not just a leading scorer, our leader and a voice on the team, and now he's going to go overseas and play professionally, like, that's awesome, you know, and then we have some freshmen that red shirted for us and, and now we're playing 20 plus minutes a game, you know, and it's, it's just, just seeing those guys, whatever their circumstance, has been to come in one way and grow on and off the court in so many different ways and blossom, that's been by far
the, the biggest joy for me. Being able to use the game of basketball to impact those kids not only in terms of what they're able to do on the basketball floor, but as you said, to be able to grow as people off the court. It's one of the best things about being a coach is being able to use basketball to be able to, to be able to do that. All right, before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share. How can people connect with you?
Find out more about your program, share, email, social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with. And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up. Yeah, I guess my social media is just all at Brandon Ubell. I kept it pretty simple. U B E L is my last name. And yeah, I mean, just our, our website, brandon ubellsd.edu. i think if, if you want to watch a very unique but very fun brand of basketball, goyotes.com is our, is our site.
I think some of them are streamed on there. I think Midco does an awesome job. But if you ever see us on national tv, tune in because it's, it is a ton of fun, you know, and would love to hear anything or anybody to connect and ask questions or whatever or just share any thoughts because you know what we are doing is very unique. But also we know there's room to grow and room to improve and all kinds of things. And even if it's just to talk shop or connect or whatever, I'm always open to that.
So yeah, anything and everything. Would love for people to watch us play play, but also would love for people to connect with me if they want to do that as well. Brandon, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us. Really appreciate it. And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the Hoop Heads podcast presented by Head Start Basketball. Sam.