¶ Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum. For those of you just joining and are new to Zone 7, it's not a place, but a way of life.
Just a quick refresher for our new listeners. If you have just found us, Zone seven is not a place, it's a way of life. You keep your most loyal, helpful, watchful, supportive cheerleaders as close to you as you possibly can. That's your Zone seven. I am lucky enough to work with people that I not only respect, but I adore. I am so passionate about cold cases, and I am thrilled to have you with us part of what we do in Zone seven, and the reason I wanted to
start this podcast is to include the public. Experts are great,
¶ Sheryl shares why she felt compelled to start Zone 7.
law enforcement is great, but the general public, the average Joe, can solve a cold case, and often does. Your advocation, your vocation may lead us down a path we didn't even know existed. You may have an expertise that we do not that can show us how to get this case from cold to salt. Each week I will introduce you to somebody from my Zone seven that has a particular expertise that can maybe help formulate a theory. You can take that theory and get us to the next level,
possibly prayerfully closed by a rest. Growing up, the Miss
¶ Sharing fond memories of watching Miss America pageants
America Paget was a big night in our house, we would get our outfits ready. We would have questions prepared for each other. I mean, what would you do about the energy crisis? And what is your ideal first date? And of course we would always answer the same thing, I just want world peace, and then of course crack up laughing. Then my favorite part, we would entertain our parents with our talent. That portion of the evening was always,
hands down the most hilarious thing you've ever seen. We wouldn't just have a baton, we'd have a fire baton while hula hooping reciting the Gettysburg address. We weren't playing. We came to compete. Our sister Charlene was a beauty queen and we would take turns holding her trophy and wearing her crown while giving our acceptance speeches humbly of course. Well, this particular evening in nineteen sixty nine, I guess the talent portion wasn't really up to our standard, so we
started making fun of some of the contestants. We would say things like, well, I guess she is Miss Texas her hair looks like a tumbleweed. Is that singing by Miss Nebraska? Or is that a cat caught a fan belt? Or one of my favorites. Do they not have Mara's in South Dakota because I know she did not look at herself or she walked out in that get up. Our dad was sitting behind us on the sofa reading the newspaper. He never said a word as we were
slamming these beautiful and talented and smart women. But then in that deep South Georgia accent, he said, and I quote, well, there there, and y'all are here. And in that moment, the five of us realized, hey, wait a second, we're not in the Miss America pageant. We didn't even have the guts to try out. And my sister's shivering as though it was her idea, slowly said well, we probably should cheer for Miss Georgia, being a hometown girl and all.
And then we started to brag on some of the other contestants from other states, their talent, their clothes, their answers, and from then on, the five of Us championed other women.
¶ Background details of Natalee Holloway's disappearance at age 18 in Aruba
Natalie Holloway was eighteen years old when she disappeared on May thirtieth, two thousand and five, on her high school's senior trip to Aruba. They called her mom to let her know Natalie was missing and she had missed her flight, and immediately Beth Holloway knew something was terribly wrong. Natalie was dependable. She would never be late, much less for
something like a flight home. Natalie was last seen leaving Carlos and Charlie's with a man by the name of your Hand Van der Sloot and two friends, the Cowpo brothers. Natalie got in a car with these three men and was never seen alive again. She's never been found. There's been no sightings anywhere in the world. She's got one of the most recognizable missing person's posters ever, and her
remains have never been found. The Uruban government says there's no eviden it's in the case to have a trial since they don't have her remains, they don't have a crime scene, they don't have anything that they believe they can go to trial with now. The number one suspect in this case was your Hand Vandersluut. He was the last to see her alive. He has admitted that he was in the car with her. He admitted as she was going in and out of consciousness that he was
touching her in a sexual way under her underwear. He stated they were on the beach. At one point, he says she was having some type of convulsions. He says they drove her back to the holiday inn where she was staying and dropped her off. He didn't know what happened to her, and he remained the number one suspect.
He was arrested a few times, but he was always released that On March the twenty ninth of twenty ten, Vandersloot contacts Beth Holloway's attorney, John Kelly, and he says, for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, I'll tell her mother where her body is. But what she's got to do immediately is send me some good faith money. So Beth Holloway makes two payments, one of ten thousand dollars and one of fifteen thousand dollars, for a total of
twenty five thousand dollars. Then Vanderslout takes mister Kelly to a location that he knew was bogus. Then, on May thirtieth, five years to the day after Natalie Holloway went missing Your Hand, vander Slut goes into a hotel room with a young woman, Stephanie Flores. He murders her in that hotel room. Since twenty ten, he's been indicted on fraud charges in illegal wire transfers for con and Beth Holloway
out of twenty five thousand dollars. Whenever I am asked, well, who do you think killed Natalie Holloway, I don't hesitate. I don't think there's anybody in the world that doesn't have the opinion that Joran Vanderslut killed her on that beach and then disposed of her body. This is a
¶ "This is a classic example of a case that is not necessarily unsolved, but unproven."
classic example of a case that is not necessarily unsolved, but unproven, and in the world of investigating cold cases, these can be some of the most difficult because again, we don't have a crime scene, we don't have remains, we don't have DNA, we don't have clothing, we don't have eyewitnesses. Well, we don't have an eyewitness that'll talk. There's two and they have remained free the whole time. My guest tonight is the Queen of true crime. She's
¶ Sherly introduces esteemed prosecutor and TV personality, Nancy Grace to the listeners.
a feigned prosecutor, a TV personality that had a groundbreaking style. She was like no other we had ever seen. She's an award winning author, she's a daughter, she's a sister. She's a mother, she's a wife, she's a friend, a loyal friend, and she has dedicated her entire adult life to the pursuit of justice and advocating for victims of crime. Y'all please welcome someone who has helped shape my Zone seven, the one and only Nancy Grace.
Oh my stars, that was a lot. That was a mouthful. I did not need all that, but I would like to tell my own story. Every Oh gosh, it had to be Miss Universe and Miss America. My sister Ginny and I would spend the night with my grandmother, Mama Lucy, who my daughter is named after her because she helped raise me, and we would watch We would not leave the TV. You know, we only got two channels and one was with Sheveryl's Universe Kalals, and we would stay.
It was a big deal because we could stay late and watch Miss I didn't recall ever mocking. I was just so in awe.
Well that's how we started.
Yeah, right, you big bloy.
But you know occasionally, you know, they maybe didn't meet our standard at the time, which is so silly.
When you were in the fifth grade, you had a standard.
Girl, I was only five years old when this happened. But you know, if my sister said it and they believed it, I did too. You know. I can remember when they went to Valdosta State in the early seventies and there was a big protest. They were all talking about these girls were going to burn their bras, and I was all about it. Let's head down to Valdosta. And my dad looks at me and he's like, you don't even wear a bra. You're four. Go sit down.
We'll call you when we need you. You know. But you know again, if my sisters were you know, into it and down for it, I was in the truck waiting on them.
Well, speaking of sisters, how is your sister?
Listen? She is fighting every day, she is healing. She
¶ Sheryl provides an update on her sister's resilience despite health challenges
is one of the most incredible people because she is so action oriented. She's a lot like you. There's always something, the dog, the kids, the house, the show, you know, whatever she's got going.
First of all, it's not a show. It's not like a Corse and pony, dog and pony show at the circle at the circus. These are real people that are going through real problems that are seemingly insurmountable. And there's not a lot we can do for them, But I know that pain and to know that someone is on your side and is at least trying. That's what I always tell my husband David, God bless his soul, Lord, he is a saint. I say, you know what, when I ask you to help me do something, neither one
of us may succeed. It may be something like help me find my phone, or guess what I have a flat tire or whatever then, or guess what the guinea pig has got loose in the art. I'm afraid the dog is going to eat them. It could be anything. We may not succeed, but it feels good and when somebody's helping you or at least trying to amen. So what trime do you want to talk about? Hit me?
I want to talk about your hand, Vandersloop.
Well you quit say your hand. First of all, You've got two choices, yorn or urine as many people call you know, and I merely armber when people say urine. People come up to me on the street and go, what about that urine? I'm like, Uh, what you're in too? Witch? Urine?
Are you referring that worries for me?
Vandersloo. Everybody knows your Vandersloop.
You and I have been on this thing since two thousand and five.
Do you want to hear a story about that. I remember I had a book coming out, and it was my very first book. I love it The Victim. I was at a children in New York and I almost canceled on my own book party that CNN was throwing for me out of the kindness of their heart, because I thought Natalie might be found that night.
Oh, because that had just happened.
I'm like, guys, I don't think this is a good idea for all the whole staff to go over to a book party. We need to stay right here because I've got a ceiling. Something's gonna happen. Boy, was I wrong.
And you know, we've worked it at a level that we have befriended Beth. I mean, she's not just somebody that we have read about or have interviewed once or twice. We really do care about her.
Yeah, you know, I feel guilty about inviting her on to crime stories because I actually hate it when anyone brings up the murder of my fiance. I don't like it if I bring it up that means I guess. I mean, I'm certainly no shrink that I'm prepared to talk about it and it's not gonna like totally throw me off. But I can be having a perfectly great day and someone brings that up and it's like somebody throws cold water on me, and then you know, you
know how I am Cheryl. I will get into thinking about it what happened to him and what did he feel and what could have been and all that, and it's easy, so easy to slip into that. You really have to fight it.
Oh absolutely.
I very often don't even ask her because I love her and we got so close, the three of us and her friend Ginger when we were in Aruba. I hate to she's having a good day. I don't want to drag her down by making her talk about it.
Well. I did text her when the news broke, and then I called her and she just said, you know, I love you and Nancy, and I said, well, do you need anything because I'm coming to Birmingham. I want to see this fool in person.
We're totally camping out right on and we have to get one of those cheap hotels that gives you breakfast and free Wi Fi. Nothing makes me more angry than or on a leg at some fancy restaurant, I mean fancy hotel, and then I have to pay for wife's I like fifteen ninety nine a day.
Really yep, well let's go back. I know everybody knows that Natalie disappeared May thirtieth, two thousand and five, on a senior trip to Aruba. She was last seen at Carlos and Charlie's. I mean, she's last seen getting in a car with vander Slout and the Capo brothers cal.
Po cow Po woman, cut her mic, please cut my mind. Nobody's ever done that. I feel left out.
Can't be coming on my show and correcting me the cow Poe. You're right, and they're horrible. They're all horrible. I mean, vander Slute has confessed what four times.
They're like three guels from hells mm hmmm, and they're sticking together to cover their rear ends.
And do you know Bess said something when this case broke a day or ago that Natalie she had eighteen years with her and she has lived eighteen years without her.
Cheryl, Please te don't make me now walking think about us, my little Lucy and John David. I know, you know when they get out of the car, and yes, I still take them to school. When they get out of the car, I watched them until they go in the building because I'm so I don't know what I am, so I'm ingrained with thinking something could very well happen to them, just thinking of eighteen years without them. Oh that makes my stomach urch physically hurts. Why did you
say that to me? It was just so compelling. And when we went to Aruba with her, she said several things that I thought, you know, as a mama, you can hardly hear it without physically reacting to it. And when you asked us to go with you back to.
Aruba to search for her again, it was one of the most important tremps I've ever taken. And there was a period of time where me and you and Beth went toward the chapel where she had gone.
Oh, my stars, it's just what I was talking about yesterday. I was just talking about that with someone who wasn't It was either on a fox or it was on inside of it was somewhere, Oh, Cheryl, it was when you are you I best were going. We got to that a hill, although it was kind of steep, and she was describing how she was so distraught. She demanded
¶ Nancy describes an emotional moment in Aruba during the Holloway investigation
the cab just let her out. Let get I gotta get out of the car. I can't see the car. She got out of the cab because she saw a cross on the side of the road, and she threw herself down, screaming and crying. Where is Natalie? Where is Natalie? Just beating, beating the ground. She had been trying to find outlets she had flown there, and the police weren't helping her. Nobody was helping her. There's no ninety one one system in place. It was just a crap show.
And she looks up. She sees another cross. She goes to that cross, and she's like, kind of like an animal. She's not even thinking like a human. She's just in so much pain. And she sees another cross. She ends up going to eighteen crosses. As I recall, up this hill, climbing this hill. By now she's covered in dirt from
kneeling and praying and beating the ground. She gets to the top and there is a little chapel, and I mean little like the size of your kitchen or my kitchen, the whole chapel, and it's very decorated on the inside with holy images. And she said when she got to that chapel, she was overcome with a feeling that Natalie was dead. Oh gosh, And you remember, Cyril. The three of us sat on those outdoor pews around that little bitty chapel on the top of that hill, and I
recall it something like Bella Vista or Buyna Vista. Beautiful view because you could look out on other hills and mountains and you could see the ocean, just a glimpse of the ocean beyond, and there was such a feeling of peace. And all three of us said that was the only time in Aruba that there was peace, because everywhere else felt like we were on snakes, just writhing between It just felt horrible, except right.
There, even when we almost got arrested.
Oh lords.
And I'm going to tell you a lot of people may not know this, but Nancy was my prosecutor back in day when I was assigned to the Major Case Division, and I've seen her do a lot of brave things. I've seen her do a lot of really super cool things. What I saw when Aruba was flat gangster. So let me set at the stage. I had to busted up ankle and I could hardly walk. So Nancy and Beth go to the holiday Inn. They want to go on the inside of it. They want to ask some hard
¶ Encounter with Aruban police and Nancy's fearless confrontation
questions of these people. Well, I'm out front and I see a police car pull up and there's three of them in the car.
And they were big.
Oh they were huge.
I think they were on steroids, Cheryl. There's really no doubt in my mind.
And I thought I better start walking back to the car because Nancy.
Walks because suddenly your ankle starts hurting.
Oh my gosh. And I thought Nancy walks as quick as she talks. I got to hit it because they're going to leave me here if I don't make tracks. So I start walking back to the car and a police officer starts hollering at me, wait a minute, Wait a minute, ma'am. Stop, And I was like, oh lord, So I stopped. Nancy doesn't. She keeps right on walking
and Beth is following her. Well, finally they come back, because I guess they figure they're not going to leave me, and they start threatening Beth and Nancy with a rest Well, I'm taking a picture of it because I'm like, I'm gonna document this. Well. Then he comes to me and says, you could go to jail for taking a picture of us, and I'm like, what is going on? First of all, Beth and Nancy ain't big as a minute. They don't weigh one hundred and fifty pounds combined, and these guys
are huge. Nancy Grace was not intimidated at all. She looks right at that one boy and she says, either no. The first thing she said was, so, you're telling me you can't find a way to arrest your hand vandersloot in fifteen years, but you're going to arrest us in fifteen minutes. I thought, oh lord, here we go. Maybe she forgot we're in a foreign country. I don't know, but I was like, I think we might be in
some trouble here. And then he keeps talking to you and keeps giving you attitude, and you said, and I quote, either arrest us or let us go. I'm leaving. And you turned on your heels and you started walking, and me and Beth looked at each other and we just started following you. And then something extraordinary happened when we got on the other side of the street at the sidewalk, You remember all the businesses started closing their doors and
putting out closed sign I remember. I mean that was like something out of a movie.
They were say us coming and turn the sign we are closed, we're closed, can't help you.
And before that you had said, listen, nobody knows we're here, nobody knows we're coming. Don't post anything on social media, don't post a picture, don't say where you're going, don't even say you're at the Atlanta airport prior to leaving. I'm like, okay. We got in the car after that, just disgusting display, and you said, give me that picture. So I sent you the picture. You posted it immediately you said they already know we're here. I don't care.
We're going to, you know, continue what we came here to do. We're going to continue to search. And everywhere we went, the lighthouse, the Holiday Inn, the other side of town, where we were saying, they followed us the whole time.
I remember it like it was yesterday. And what I kept thinking about during all that, especially when they were threatening to arrest us, was if they're doing that to us, what did they do regarding Natalie's mother, was she was there and there was a chance to solve the case Nallie's remains, her body could have been found and identified unless it was thrown in the water, And if it had been thrown in the water, that was the time to secure witnesses and possible DNA.
You know.
The other day on again, there so many outlets talking about Natalie. I got a lot of heat online again about why did you say Natalie was rape if they've
¶ Nancy defends her statement on the Holloway case
never found everybody? How do you know that?
Well?
I recall reading supplemental reports where your Vanderslute described Natalie's underwear. I believe there were flowers on her underwear, a print embroadered, Yeah, something like that. I mean, what do you think happened? This girl was ruthied? Why do I say that? Because that was his modus operandi, method of operations. And again, when you don't know a horse, look at his track records.
That's what he did. Everybody knew it. The whole community knew he would go to casinos and stall American girls to try to get money and or sex from them and ruthie them. Happened over and over and over and over and because he was a judge's son, he got away with it. It was condoned.
He described her going in and out of consciousness and how he was touching her, so clearly she was actually assaulted. And the thing is, remember.
He also said, in one of his many varying statements, I mean I can smell that like a bloodhound, the moment I hear inconsistency. There there you got your lying. That's it. Now. You can embellish ad facts that you remember or if you're asked the correct question by the question, or you might add facts, but changing facts that's a whole nother that's a whole other thing.
Yeah, that's a big old flag.
And one of his revisions, who stated that that Natalie wanted him to have sex with her and he refused. Right, okay, nobody believes that. Nobody. He's a shark, and there's no
¶ Speculations on what happened to Natalee Holloway
way he had Natalie Holloway. Remember when he went to the fishermen's huts, they're not really huts. They're like little structures that fishers used to I guess clean fish, bestore their rigging. I can easily see what happened that night. He raped her after rufying her and I think there's a chance that he asphyxiated her or she died on her own during the rape, vomiting up the roofie, and instead of saving her, he let her die and got rid of her body.
But you know, even when we were there, there's nobody that didn't accept what had happened and who had done it. No, there's nobody that doesn't ping him for it.
And it's still not over. And now this POC is coming to the US. No more cushy peruby in jail where he has sex, drugs and booze and free reign like he's the King of the idiots. He's coming here,
¶ Updates on suspect, Joran van der Sloot getting extradided to the US
and I am not going to be happy till his body ass is locked up in a max security federal penitentiary.
Amen. So don't you think extraditing him to the US to face these fraud charges is brilliant because again we have been she's healthy, She's going to be a vital part of this thing is the victim. You don't want to wait till twenty thirty eight or whenever he's released from the Peruvian jail.
Oh No, And that's why that treaty was agreed upon. It in two thousand and one between the US and Peru allows for this is important temporary extradition. And here are the requirements. The individual that is being extradized must already be behind bars serving time in Peru. They decide if it is a case that needs to be that needs extradition, and they work with the US to make that happen. Typically, as you just pointed out, you have to wait until the person finishing is their current sentence
in the foreign jurisdiction. And when I say foreign, it could be another state, but here it actually is foreign, it is Peru. You have to wait for them to finish their sentence in this foreign jurisdiction and then extradite them. Not so with this pact agreed upon in two thousand and one US Peru which says your Vanderslute can be temporarily extradited.
There you go.
That's how he's coming here. He's coming to Birmingham on essentially two charges, one being wire fraud. He used the wires, which is telephone, digital, computer, and telegraph. Anything that you use the wire service to can meant a crime that's wirefraud, like transferring funds to an offshore account illegally for criminal purposes. That's wirefraud. You took away all that money and let's just say turks and caicos from your drug empire you're
running in the US. There's wire fraud. This is wirefraud and extortion. He told Beth Holloway that he would tell her what rip quote really happened to Natalie if she would give him two hundred and fifty thousand dollars with a twenty five thousand dollars down payment. She gave the twenty five grand. That's extortion. Though, not only does he rape and murder Natalie right there on the beach, And if you don't think he strangled her or asphyxiated her,
then it's still felony murder. He was sex assaulting her and she died, text book felony murder. So not only did he do that, then he prayed upon her mother, who.
She got twenty five thousand dollars. She's a school teacher.
Awful.
Oh, you've already taken the most precious thing from her she'll ever have. And I want to tell everybody one more thing. As you and me and Beth were sitting there in front of the chapel on top of that beautiful hill overlooking the Atlantic Ocean. She said something so gut wrenching as a mamma to hear that it took me a minute before I could speak again. She said to us, do you know I have her passport with me just in case she carried Niali's passport with her at all times?
Oh gosh, you just came to childrops all over my whole self, just in case she got a call. Didn't matter day or night where Beth would be. If she got that call that Nalie had been sound, she would have Nowly's passports so she could go and get Nalie and bring her home.
I can't thank you enough for being with us tonight. And I just want to say I can't thank Vic Powell enough for teaching me that somebody prettier or smarter, or more talented or richer should be your friend, not somebody you distance yourself from or make fun of. So I appreciate everything that you have meant to me as a friend.
Wait, are you saying I'm pretty ear than you?
Absolutely, this is really happening, is absolutely happening.
You know what's funny? I always wanted dark brown eyes and dark hair. Why is it we always want the thing we don't have. But you know what, Keith's death really taught me something, because every day, Cheryl, I wake up at five am and I go outside and I look up. This morning, I could see the moon still out and the sky was turning blue. I said, Oh, Dear God, thank you for another day and all these
blessings you are rating down on me. You begin to look for everything good and don't let anything take away your joys. And I got to say, your friendship has been one of the most precious things in my life.
Well, listen, I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I always do with a quote. This quote is not somebody that was in my Zone seven, but I wish they could have been. This quote comes from Harper Lee from Taquilla Mockingbird, chapter twenty two. So, after Atticus loses the trial of Tom Robinson, his neighbor ms Mardy is talking to the children and giving them some cake, trying to make them feel better. And she says, and I quote, I simply wanted to tell you that there
¶ "I simply wanted to tell you That there are some men in this world who are born to do our unpleasant jobs for us and your father's one of them." - Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird
are some men in this world who are born to do our unpleasant jobs for us, and your father's one of them. Nancy Grace and I love this book. We have that in common as well. And this quote always makes me think of Nancy because when she lost caid, she picked up herself and decided to devote the rest of her life for fighting for justice. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is his own seven. It's important when you think about cold cases, what is the call to action?
In this case? The call to action is to maintain
¶ Call to action for Natalee's unsolved case
advocacy for Beth Holloway, for Natalie's dad, for Natalie's brother, for Natalie's friends that were on the trip with her. And I think it's important when people say, well, he's in prison already, why are we wasting taxpayers money to get him to Alabama? Are you kidding me? Nobody should get away with the murder of anybody. Vandersloot has not faced the first charge as it relates to Natalie Holloway, and all of us need to have a unified voice when he hits American soul that he understands it is
completely different. Now, welcome to America.