ZAMP 335 - Returning to Dead City

I'm a zombie. I've been bitten. You're listening to the survival podcast for zombie nerds everywhere. is zombies ate my podcast hello and welcome to zombies ate my podcast i'm your host ryan murphy and joining me as always is the busy zombie lord himself lou page how's it going lou it's been a while Yeah, I mean, it's been almost a month. Yeah, it's been a busy month. Lots going on. Let's just say that kids going back to school is not easy.

Yeah, no, it's a lot. And I know your kid probably started like late August, right? Is that how it works? No, most kids do. But where I live... Because Violet's going into kindergarten. They delayed the kindergartners by about a week and a half so that everybody else was into routine. And then the kindergartners get.

dropped in and the other kids are already in their classrooms and all of that stuff is sorted out. And it's just the kindergartners that, uh, uh, have to adjust. Yeah. Yeah. Kindergarten is, is slightly. um delayed here as well by i think a day and then it's kind of staggered depending on whether you're in sk or jk yeah they they did uh the way they did do it here is it was um

Her class has like 20 kids and they did 10 kids one day and then 10 kids the next. And then then the last two days, it was all 20 kids together. That way they didn't have to get used to. It's a learning adjustment for all of them. Yeah. And you have junior kindergarten and senior kindergarten, right? No. Oh, okay. You just have kindergarten. All right. We have kindergarten and then she goes in the first grade.

Right. So we have two two grades of kindergarten. And I mean, junior kindergarten is optional, but like most parents do it because they're like, you want your kid to start with everybody else and all their friends. I'm guessing junior kindergarten is like our. uh our pre-k program here yeah but you would have to probably pay for that it's pretty daycare or yeah yep yeah yeah the state does not provide anything and until kindergarten so not until they're five

Okay. Wow. Interesting. Uh, yeah, I mean, um, we, yeah, so it's, it's obviously it's been a, it's been a busy couple of weeks. I wanted to.

kick things off with a vacation story because i just remembered this hit my brain because i'm like what what did we do for the last month and it was a lot um the family we went to niagara falls which is like i like to call canadian las vegas just like a bunch of it's just a huge tourist trap um and it's right on the border people know niagara falls there's the

american falls which we call the the not so great falls and then you have the canadian falls which is what everybody comes to see which is the giant horseshoe but you know i joke the american falls actually do look pretty cool especially when you're on the boat and you get right up close and stuff it's uh It's certainly a thing to see. But we did an attraction. So we had this package where you could do six different attractions. And one of them was called Zombie Attack. And it was...

So me, so first of all, Caden, nobody else wanted to do it. We had five tickets, two adults and three kids. So Ashley, no interest. Me, obviously, I'm game because it's basically like a 4D ride with a video game component slapped on the front of it. And Caden wanted to do it. They had a zombie, and I'll likely...

i'll put a photo in the in the discord or i'll put in the show notes people could take a look it was really cool like they had all these like zombies set up and they had a zombie you could pose with and and and sit on a bench and take your picture with and i and i said i said to kaden like look like uh if you want to go on this ride you got to sit with the zombie and we got to get our photo taken

And this is a fake zombie. It wasn't like going to wake up and scare us. It was fake. Yeah. It's so funny. It's not a guy in a costume, right? They put his arms around you. Okay. The funny thing is, though, is this the second time I've told a story about Niagara Falls and both my co-hosts are like, now, wait, is this story going to end with your kid being scared, scared out of his mind? I'm like, no, like it was a statue.

everybody listened it was very good so anyways he does the photo and we we go into the thing and it and it it got me thinking like we talk about video games a lot we both play video games but there's this like side of the industry that is like building these video game experiences like one-offs uh for these you know rides and these experiences and

It's kind of close to like a VR type thing. So you're in this like arena seating and it's like 4D. So there's like the seats kind of rumble and move and the sound comes from everywhere. And there's this giant theater experience in front of you. And you have this light gun and you wear the 3D glasses and it is basically like a six minute VR experience as your, your, your characters like driving through.

And you're just shooting all these zombies and you compete with everybody. And it takes your picture. So your player, depending on how you're doing with points, you can see your face pop up on the top score. And everybody can see it. They can see it outside too. So as we're like waiting, there's like two people. This is like end of the tourist season. So there wasn't a lot of people. So we were waiting in line because the ride was active. There was two people in there.

And I'm showing Caden. We're looking at the scoreboard. One is like clearly someone who wanted to do it. And the other person's like screenshot is them like covering their eyes and they got zero points because they didn't want to. This ride was too scary. So we get in, we do it. We have a blast. And because we.

No one else wanted to do it. We had some extra tickets and it was really cool. Like it is really neat. These like little experiences you can do. Look, they're cheesy and like, you know, they're stuff like that's great. I mean. since the last time we talked, I did an amusement park with Violet, and it, like...

Honestly, the end of the season was absolutely perfect because just like you said, you had less people. We literally walked onto a roller coaster with no line. Literally, it was like the car had just left. They had two cars that went. One came in, one went out. And the second car pulled up, and it was like, boom, get on the car, ready to go. And I was like, wow, okay. So, yeah. And there's lots of...

unique digital experiences getting added to places. We have a couple of, like, we have not necessarily... But they're sort of in the vein of arcades. They have a few arcade machines there. There's a couple of places for kids here. And I went in and I didn't know. Did you know they're still making House of the Dead arcade machines?

No, I didn't. There was like two or three new ones in this arcade. And I was like, last one I played was like four, maybe, or five. And this was like House of the Dead. arcade edition something like wow i didn't even know this existed so i of course played some of that but that was a while back but it the the zombie experience is not

It's in other places that you wouldn't even think it's unique. Yeah, we we had a blast. It was a it was a it was a quick sort of the last month went fast. Like when we're. sort of planning to come back and it was like uh it's like oh man like feels like it hasn't been that long but i'm looking at what we what we watched last which was revival and uh i i'll admit i haven't

I just I haven't even had time to go back to that show and finish it up. I finished it. Yeah. How was it? It's excellent. And I am like chomping at the bit for them, hoping that they get a season two.

oh gosh uh did it get a season two like you think by now they would have said something they have not said anything but that's because um sci-fi channel has been super cagey i think they've been involved in that uh that uh one of those purchases that was going through oh right yeah there's a lot of weirdness there too uh yeah

Well, I hope it gets renewed. Does it end in a way that like is, you know, stay tuned for season two type thing? I will say this. They wrap a lot of things up really nice. And. If it ended the way it is, it does. There's a couple of questions left to ask, but you can definitely see that they're going in a different direction, and there is a bigger mystery. But if it was to end that way, you'd be left going, okay, that was an interesting ending. Hmm. That's fair. I...

I, you know, I appreciate when a show like when a show ends, it never really answers everything. So it sounds like it would be if it did end, then you had a good season. And if it keeps going, then you got opportunity to tell more stories. So. I appreciate that. It's still on the list. I really did enjoy those first few episodes we watched, and I'm glad you were able to finish it.

I would say it only wrapped here in the United States on August 14th, so it's only been a month. And digitally, because I watched it through Peacock, digitally... They held off on the final episode. I was watching all the other episodes and they were coming out week to week to week to week. And that final episode, they made me wait two weeks before they put the final episode up on Peacock. Oh, really?

So that could be one of the reasons why we don't know about renewal dates yet is I had to wait two weeks to get it. Oh, yeah, because weren't you saying like when we recorded, it's like, oh, last episode is supposed to launch now.

Yeah, when we recorded, my plan was to literally finish us recording, go upstairs, and log in, and watch the final episode. And I did just that, and when I logged in... uh peacock popped up and said oh yes this will drop in two weeks and i went but it aired last night it should have been on streaming tonight and it was like nope you gotta wait two weeks and i was like but i just watched the prior episode like

Like, last week. And I know that that aired last week. You're really going to make me wait two weeks for the final episode? I don't know what the thought process behind that is. If you've got people that are... Did it watch? Watching a show, making them wait two weeks for the final episode when they've already watched everything else on time seems like a push to get you to sub for one more month.

And I think that's what was going on is that it aired in the middle of a month. And they knew that if you were subscribed to watch the show, you'd cancel as soon as you finished watching the show. So if we push it. for two more weeks, it means you have to sub for one more month. I think that was the thought process behind it. That's gross. That's gross.

Yeah, that's what I thought. And as soon as I finished watching that episode, I was like, boom, cancel. That'll teach him. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it and I'm glad you canceled because, you know. yeah i'm sure something will pull you back in but i'm sure i'll sub again but i wasn't gonna sub it was also peacock has also gone up on their price the last time i did it it was like

$4.99 or $5.99 ad free and this time it was like they wanted like $13.99 ad free and with ads was like $9.99. I was like, no. Yeah, it's all ads now. Everything has ads. Except for Zamp. Zamp does not have ads. I say that as I'm about to read what is probably the closest thing to an ad, which is that Extra Life is back. But this is for charity.

And so not only is it for a good cause, but we have some cool incentives for folks at home. If you've been listening to ZAMP for years, you know what's up. tiny.cc slash extra life Ryan. If you donate $25, you can suggest a zombie film for us to discuss on the podcast. $50, and you can suggest three zombie films to discuss on the podcast. You got to make sure it's rentable or you got to make sure it's obtainable in North America. Rent, stream, purchase, and donations close December 31st.

As I said, tiny.cc slash extra life Ryan, a hundred percent of the donation goes to sick kids in Toronto, which is a fantastic children's miracle network hospital. Does a lot of great work. And as always, we're going to end this little bit with the fact that Lou is going to suggest a film to maybe help folks at home decide on what they should donate for.

For the record, folks, he's putting me on the spot. I did not have a list in front of me, so give me a second. There's no movie that comes to mind? Well, we've covered 28 Days Later. Yes. If we could find a copy, we could do Dead Alive. Yeah. We've never done Dead Alive for this show. okay well let's do a quick search because i i think someone said it was didn't we like we mentioned it on the podcast and then someone said well it's actually available i think it's in the states

It's a newer thing, too, because I know in the past I've tried to find it even to rent, and I couldn't. And I know that after we mentioned it before, it came up. But there's that, or someone could make us watch Prince of Darkness. Who doesn't want to watch Alice? Cooper lead a bunch of homeless zombies trying to invade a church so that they can access liquid Satan in the basement of a church by John Carpenter. Come on. Okay. I don't.

I don't think. So what was that one called? So. Prince of Darkness. Prince of Darkness. So Dead Alive, according to realgood.com, is not available anywhere. So. Like last time I said that, someone said it was, but right now it's showing nowhere. So I don't know. But yeah, what was it? Prince of Prince of Darkness, you said? Let's look at Prince of Prince of Darkness. prince of darkness is a 1987 film which is uh right 1987 yep okay uh it looks like

Looks like it's, yeah, we could rent or buy it. So that counts. That counts. And it's available in the States and Canada. So, you know, we'll keep an eye out for Dead Alive, but Prince of Darkness would work. I think I own a copy somewhere. Yeah. I was going to joke we could just hit up a bunch of local yard sales and try to find Dead Alive there.

I could have a DVD copy tomorrow if I wanted to. There's a place down the street. The problem is I'd have to dig out my DVD player. It's in a box somewhere in the basement. You don't have a console you could throw it in? I know you're... Your PC, your Steam Deck only these days. No. All my consoles are gone. Oh, yeah. Just Steam Deck. That's all.

Well, I can't argue with that. I don't really have a lot of physical media for especially movies these days. Well, I used to have tons of it. I used to have bookcases and bookcases full of DVDs. And then I moved all those movies to like a binder and kept all the cases in a box. And then slowly streaming stuff just sort of had everything I wanted to watch. And if I didn't.

There's the streaming service through Fandango that used to be voodoo. I don't know what the heck it's called now. I think it's like Fandango streaming or something like that. you can still buy all your movies that way. And they have sales all the time where I get movies for like two, three bucks. And so they keep that record for you digitally. And sometimes those will even carry over to your Amazon, your Google.

Google Play Store, like there's like five different places that I can access all of that if I buy it through them. So that's sort of become my thing. And I just, I don't. I've had to move so many times moving six boxes of DVDs. And when I say boxes, it's more like trunks of DVDs was a pain in the ass. So that's kind of gone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, Dead Alive eludes us a little longer, but Prince of Darkness is available. It would totally work.

tiny.cc slash extra life ryan and usually we do get some donations from some some lovely folks even folks that um colleagues and friends who will go to my donation page and be like, oh, there's a little button here that says $25. I think that's how we watched World War Z last time. It happened to be on Netflix. Yes. The person just searched zombies and like, this one looks good. And yeah, it was. And for the record, anybody who's new to the show.

It does take us a couple of months to watch all of them because we have had ones in the past where the movie suggested was hard to find or there were five movies and we didn't want to do the same five, the five movies back to back. Back to back. So we spaced them out over the couple of months. There was before we started doing the listener suggested movies, we did the Resident Evil movies. And it was like.

tiered things we raise this amount of money i'll watch a movie this amount of money will you know and so on and so forth And I think we did end up doing all of them. I think you got enough donations that we watched all of them. Yeah, and I mean, look, it was for a good cause, but I think I... I said it just low enough that people are like, let's make them watch seven Resident Evil movies. But like I said, 100% goes to Sick Kids. And it's a great cause.

um yeah tiny.cc slash extra life ryan we'll we'll be talking about this throughout the rest of the year like i said you can donate right up until december 31st and we will uh queue up these movie suggestions as we get them and for sure wrap them up in the new year. as as we head there so and we'll obviously uh chat about our plans we've got a good chunk of content coming up we got some good plans so we can fit it in definitely down the line uh but with that

Let us head into the news. The virus has completely devastated over 150 of the world's major regions and is spreading rapidly. First up, let's talk about this little tease that was posted to Steam by the developers of Dead Island 2. Lou, normally I'd call this a nothing burger type story because it is just a... you know, stay tuned for more, but a lot of people are running with it. And, uh, there was this post put out on steam by the developers, Dan Buster studios saying,

This isn't the final cut. Dan Buster Studios are already carving out what comes next. For now, the details stay under wraps. The outbreak is far from over. And the image says, where there's no more room in hell, eh? Because Dead Island 2 was set in L.A. Yeah. Well, and the thing is, is that it took us, what, seven, eight years to get Dead Island 2? So I'll believe it when I see a trailer.

Well, I don't know if you'll have to wait long because I feel like this is a straight up tease to something being announced at the Game Awards at the end of the year. That's my prediction anyways. If it is, then they're moving a lot faster than they used to. So we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. I mean, did you ever end up trying out Dead Island 2? No. Okay. I just, it fell off my radar, and I enjoyed the first one, and I tried to go back.

recently to play it in the last year or two and i don't the mechanics just didn't hit me right anymore um I remember I loved it back in the day, but there was just something about it this time around that it didn't strike the right chord with me. Maybe I'll go back and... find two on sale or something and try it, but I can't remember if it's Steam Deck compatible or not. I think it did get there eventually, but it's a pretty beefy game. I'd be surprised if it ran.

well on the steam deck uh but i did i did um i played a little bit of it it was on game pass i think it might still be on game pass i played a little bit of it like the intro sections and It's it's more Dead Island. It didn't like first person combat is hit and miss. And I feel like that's what really sort of didn't didn't like hook me right off the bat.

But, um, I don't know. Like I, like, I don't, I'm not big on first person melee only type stuff. So, uh, it didn't also it's game pass so it's very easy to be distracted by other games but um yeah it was it was it was okay but i feel like i missed the boat on it like I I didn't uh didn't play at launch so I kind of kind of lost its um its appeal now that being said uh just released or is coming out soon

Dying Light the Beast reviews are hitting now. And this is the standalone DLC. It got a 7 on IGN. calling it a goofy, bloody sequel with a monstrous twist. So I guess you play as Kyle Crane and you are the beast. You get to have some monster powers there. I also miss Dying Light 2.

You know, I didn't I didn't play that one. And I know and I think I had a chance to play it was on PS Plus Extra and just never got around to it. But again, that's another one that's like first person combat, you know. That's okay. I'm not a huge fan of the first-person combat in those games. I think that's one of the reasons why I didn't jump right on with them. But I don't...

I don't have the distaste for them that I used to. It's just the cost of them is also what prohibited me. I didn't love the first. One's enough that plopping down $50 for a maybe is too much for me. Yes, you are correct. I mean, video games are just are getting more and more expensive and.

It does make you think twice about when you're going to buy a game. Now, that being said, there are definitely games that get you hyped. And I think one that's going to be coming in February of next year is Resident Evil Requiem. which had a few trailers and announcements and details since we last spoke. We got a Gamescom trailer and then confirmation that the entire sort of Resident Evil...

new phase is coming to the Switch 2 in February with Requiem. Are you excited about this return to Resident Evil with Resident Evil Requiem? I am. I can't say as someone who does not have a Switch 2, I can't say that any of those announcements excited me. I already have all those games on PC, so them coming to Switch 2 is not... I don't know how well those are going to sell if everybody has them in other places already. But that said...

Requiem is definitely on my watch list. If they announce Steam Deck compatibility, which I think they will, I believe it's running on the same engine as 8, and I played that on Steam Deck. Um, as long as it's the same engine, I think we're okay. Yeah. Uh, it is, it is the same engine. I mean, if it's running on a switch too, you, you should be fine, but, uh, yeah. Um, like.

I think that the new, the new character, so it's a brand new character. Ethan Hunt has, has been, he's done. There was no new revelations of returning characters. So the rumors that Leon would, would pop up, he was not present. We got a closer look at the monster that would be chasing you around. And this is a game that's going to be more rooted in horror. So it's definitely more scary. But I think that...

The trailers we've been getting have kind of been like spinning their wheels in the sequence in the house kind of showing what appears to be like a flashback or intro sequence to the game. Yeah. So they're keeping a lot behind the curtains, you know? Yeah, I think that this game is going to be very different than the trailers are portraying it. I think what we're seeing is going to be Act 1.

Much like with 8, where they, with 8, they definitely let you know that there was going to be more combat, but everything... portrayed the that nine foot lady lady uh i forget her name at the moment but everything portrayed her as being like the main bad guy and you were done with her after act one yeah uh so So my thought process is that they're doing something similar here. They're playing everything close to the chest. I wouldn't be surprised if act one is.

No combat, and you're running around afraid, much like Seven's beginning. And then once you get out of... The first act, it becomes much more like eight. I don't doubt that that's what's going to happen here. Yeah. No, I think that's a fair assessment. And there's obviously more going on. than what we we can see in these trailers and and like you said eight really focused in on uh the intro the first act you know like

I think people were pretty, spoiler alert, people were pretty surprised when that main lady, Lady D, I can't remember her name. Yeah. I know when I, oh, Lady Dim... Dimitris... Dimitris. Dimitris, yeah? Yeah. I never did play it. I watched somebody play it. Lady Dimitrisu. Dimitrisu. How do you pronounce that?

I just always called her the nine foot lady. Nine foot lady. Yeah, of course. That's that's her. Her. Well, she's supposed to be nine feet tall. So she's very tall. I mean, that was established by many websites. But yeah, like I think this this new Resident Evil, I mean, it was very weird to watch a Nintendo Direct and have it nearly end. I think this is the penultimate sort of announcement of Resident Evil Requiem.

It's in this this time feels a little different, but we're in that classic mode of like, oh, new Nintendo platform. Let's port some stuff. But in this case, it's it's arriving day and date. on the switch to alongside the ps5 and the xbox and pc i'd be willing to i'd be willing to bet money that nintendo's paying money for that for that day and date maybe i mean nintendo has been known to you know

throw some cash around to make sure that they're in the running. Or to get exclusivity. Yeah, definitely. I mean, everybody does that, but the fact that they're getting... Resident Evil Village and Biohazard as well as like and the gold editions. That's interesting because on the Switch, those were streaming titles. This is like actually playing the game off the cart.

and or downloads so I mean as you said it's news that doesn't really interest us because we've either played or owned them already but for folks who may want to catch up on the franchise like they Their business folks probably know there's enough people to warrant the Porter. As you said, they're getting some kickbacks from Nintendo. But yeah, I mean, we'll see. I mean, I'm sure we'll have another trailer.

at the Game Awards. Maybe this time they'll make it out of the house. And we'll see a little bit more. And maybe that rumored appearance of Leon. Who knows? I'd be willing to bet if there's a rumor he's in it. It's just a matter of how much. Yeah, I think it's a Chris Redfield biohazard. Maybe a bit more than that, but I think he's in it.

in eight there is a whole chapter where you play as chris redfield so yeah i mean he's more in eight than i think he was he appears the very end at seven then he got a dlc story i think was that yeah yeah i think so So I will see. Another thing that's coming early next year is 28 years later, the Bone Temple, which is January 16th in theaters. And we got our first trailer that dropped.

And Lou, as the co-host who often says, wait until there's a trailer, I want to know your thoughts because there's a trailer. Yeah, no, I'm excited for this. It looks exactly like what I thought we were going to get. Uh, if it's called the bone temple and we've been to, uh, we've been to a bone temple. Yeah.

We've been to a bone temple. I assumed that that's where a majority of this was going to take place or it was going to be influenced by that place. And that looks like that's the plot. I think. The interesting thing about this trailer was, I can't remember the kid's name, but the kid who was the lead, he's only in like two or three bits of the trailer. So...

I'm wondering if we're going to deviate from him being our lead and maybe Ralph Fiennes is the lead and the kids story is going to be like, instead of being the main story, it's going to be hit. The kids arc is going to be like, side plot b plot yeah i i was surprised to see that the kid um had been inducted into the cult of jimmy i i would feel he'd learned enough from the first movie to to not do that

I knew as soon as he met Jimmy that was going to be the case. I think that that's where they're going. I get the vibe they might be going in a weirder direction with the cult of Jimmy. Don't be surprised. Yeah. And the character's name is Spike. So that's the character. Yeah. That's why I couldn't remember it. I knew it was I knew it was not a traditional kid's name. So Spike is like, oh, yeah. OK.

It's almost like 90s cartoon kid's name, though. Yes. Yeah. It's very odd. But I did appreciate... So this was the concern we had is like, okay, the Bone Temple, that's clearly... uh a reference to Ralph Fiennes character's location and you had said like oh the the cult of Jimmy is going to attack the bone temple and bad things are going to happen I'm like oh man that's kind of unfortunate because like the whole

Point of the first movie was talking about honoring those who passed. And I, again, in this trailer, they use like the haunting. There really isn't any dialogue. No, just like the first trailer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they use a... what i assume is a very haunting tale of a weatherman because they talk about predicting the future and then and then it quickly turns into like wow there could be disease and there could be this and

And they use this like historical speech, which I don't know if it's real or not, but it fits what obviously has gone on here. It was with the first trailer. The song they played was... Definitely. Yeah. So I would, I'd be willing to bet that they did the same thing with the second trailer. If not, that would be in bad form, I think. So I think we, I think it is a piece of historical fiction or something.

So I think I was, if this trailer is to be believed, I think I'm, I think I'm in the right. I think that the plot is going to revolve around the cult of Jimmy come in for the bone temple. I just don't know why. Yeah, and that's the struggle. And I mean, like, we get a sense that he is he's very territorial. We see hints of that in the first film. I have theories on the third film.

Yeah, well, and I think we've talked about those theories because like Cillian Murphy, as Jim, is confirmed to be playing a small role at the end of this film to tie into the next one. They say that the third film will feature him heavily, and that movie is dependent on the performance of the second movie, which I assume will do well.

There was another hint in the trailer, I don't know if you caught it, but it seemed to hint at Ralph Fiennes' character connecting with one of the infected, similar to what happened in the first movie. 28 years later the the infected was giving birth and it kind of like worked with the mom like do you do you get a sense that they're gonna try to like further explore like maybe coexistence or something it was really weird the trailer

I think that they're going to show that that alpha and him have like a relationship. Um, and I don't know where that's going to go, but I think that that's leading into something. And I think it's going to tie into the third movie. I'm pretty sure that the third movie is going to have, it's going to revolve around the baby from the first movie. I think that this is setting up for that.

Yeah. And did I catch that in the trailer that it looked as though the cult of Jimmy was attacking Spike's hometown? It kind of looked like it, but I wasn't sure. I don't think it's I don't think they're attacking. I think they're raiding like a small village or a small like a bunch of survivors. Yeah, which again. It's going to be interesting to see how they explain why Spike would go along with that, because he seemed to, I don't know. I mean, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

I have a funny feeling he's going to join them not knowing what they are and that it's going to immediately realize that this is not the right thing to do. Like he's fallen in with the wrong crowd and he's going to be looking for his out. And I have a funny feeling that's where he's going to end up teaming up with Ralph Fiennes. Makes sense. Another trailer we got, which was the first trailer for Marvel Zombies, which got to say looks.

Freaking amazing. Getting all four episodes September 24th. So that's fun. I am so psyched for this. This looks so good. And I love the fact that a bunch of our. The actors from the live action are doing the voices. And it looks like the characters are making appearances, but not because they're zombies. You might not necessarily get speaking roles from them. Yeah.

No need to have Chris Evans because he's a zombie, right? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I thought that too. I immediately thought, oh, all the original Avengers are dead. Well, you know, Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans. It looks like Hemsworth is back. He makes an alive appearance as Thor. When I watched it, I mean, they were very clear. This is a mature... take on marvel zombies unlike the what if episode we got which was pg-13 at best so they give you that but um they

they also establish a blade as a character for the first time in the MCU on screen. So, sorry, outside of, yeah, outside of a couple of other appearances, but this is like. the mcu's blade that was announced around the eternals time and they never made they never got around to making the movie but it's still on the slate according to according to them it's still on the slate it's been bounced around a bunch

I have a funny feeling we will be getting a Blade movie, an announcement of a Blade movie at the next one of those Disney events. Yeah. Well, yeah, probably. So it's... The guy who's playing Blade is Mahershala Ali, and... And he he's so he's doing the voice in. Is he doing is he doing the voice for this? OK. Yeah. Because because he almost walked away from the film project. Yeah. Yeah. But they're like. Keen to do it. As far as I understand. I don't know if we talked about.

The controversy, because it's not necessarily zombie related, but he had a script. They had a director and they had something else. And when he read the script, it was called Blade. But he was like a second or third. character in the it was somebody else's story and he said that if he wasn't going to be the lead of the movie it's called blade That he wasn't going to do it. And Marvel had to scrap the project. Because he wasn't going to do it. If he wasn't the lead. And.

The director walked out because the director had written it, and the director was like, if you're not going to use what I wrote, then I don't want to be part of this. So that movie's been, that's like the second or third time that movie's been ready to go, and then they've scrapped what they had planned.

Yeah, like, wasn't there a story that they had all the costumes made, it was supposed to be a period piece, and then that got scrapped, so they sold the costumes to, I think it was sinners that bought it? Yeah, yeah, I think so, I think so. It's interesting. I mean, I think it'll get made. I think they're connected to the character and they want to bring Blade back.

There isn't an interesting story out there about, you know, the creators of Marvel Zombies had to make changes to the character because they assumed that the Blade movie would be out before. So they likely had to like... establish more of a connection to the character because this is our i wouldn't say our official introduction to blade in the mcu but but is a version of blade because this is all what if this isn't real

it's not occurring in the MCU. Oh, well, it's a, you know what I mean? Like it's set in the MCU, but it doesn't impact the MCU. It's not like they're going to be referencing, man, those zombies, that was weird, eh? Like in Doomsday when it comes out next year. Yeah. That's not the case. So we're likely...

If schedules permit, we're likely going to fast track this one and could be as early as our next episode. What we what we talk about, because from what I can tell, all four episodes are out September 24th on Disney+. So strap in. It's going to be fun. There's even a really cool quick scene of Spider-Man doing some pretty gnarly stuff. I'm in. So that will likely be our next episode. Yeah.

all right well let's get into our main topic which i don't think we mentioned at the top of the show which is uh my bad because we watched uh we watched them the uh the walking dead dead city season two

Full disclosure, a couple notes at the top of the segment. We did not watch all the episodes. I have two left. Two left. Okay, I made it a little bit into episode six. And we'll talk about that a little bit, but I would say that's more than we promised. We said we would watch three, so we definitely watched a little bit more. Yeah, I'll let you intro it here. Yeah, so, oh, second note.

uh a lot of the clips i you know so i you know sometimes i have an intro clip and i'm like oh do i do i get a clip of uh negan and maggie having like a a moment where they discuss what's going on and kind of set out the plot? Or do I find a very, uh, it's, it's pretty sweary. This, a lot of the clips come from an episode, which was like very F bomb.

This and that. So, you know, this is a show where we talk about zombie content. So I don't think swearing should turn people away. But yeah, let's talk about Dead City. Oh, my God. Oh my fucking god. Oh my god. Oh my god. How the fuck does this happen? How did this get in there? Put it out! Get the candle! So yes...

Turns out we are playing with fire. And that was Kim Coates, if you didn't know, who steals plenty of scenes. Starting around episode four, he was pretty... laid back in the first few episodes with his minimal appearances but i think once episode four hits and onward he's he's pretty present yeah no um the the they introduce him in the first episode

And then I think he's not in the second episode at all. Or if he is, it's just like a cameo. And same with the third episode. But you go into the fourth episode knowing it's going to be about his character. And everything from episode four on, he's he's our new Negan. Yeah, basically, he sort of fills in that role. And I mean, yeah, like, let's.

Let's sort of intro this. We got the second season of The Walking Dead Dead City continues the story of Maggie and Negan as they navigate the post-apocalyptic Manhattan. The season begins six months after the events of the first season and follows their past as they find themselves trapped on opposite sides of the growing war to control New York City. And that pretty much sets up the season in where our characters are. And quickly, they're...

They're brought together and they clash and not necessarily clash, but they have intertwined stories from then on out. I will say the thing that. Again, I was not excited to go into this. I don't know if anybody remembers our talk about the first season. I thought the first season rehashed too much stuff from regular Walking Dead.

Almost like they had when the script had been written, like they hadn't finished airing the final season of Walking Dead when the scripts were written for Dead City. So they retreaded a lot of ground. I was worried from the trailers of this that we were going to be retreading a lot of ground. And we're not. Clearly, the setup at the end of the first season was that the...

What do they call her? The Dom? The Dom? I think just the Dom. She was going to set up Negan to be Negan for her. And I thought that that was an interesting idea. But I didn't know if they were going to be able to pull it off because Negan has changed. And they quickly established that he does not want to do it. I was worried they were going to...

to just make him be Negan again without what he has learned and developed as a character. I thought we'd be going right back to the same two-dimensional character he was when we first met him, and he's not. And then I was worried that when him and he finally runs into Maggie again, I thought we were going to rehash the same conflict. And we clearly don't.

I was really impressed the first time they interact with each other. I think it's in episode four. And he's being blackmailed into doing what the Dom wants. She has his family. And if he does not do it. she instructs his family will be killed is essentially what she tells him. And immediately he looks at Maggie and. Maggie's kind of like, why are you doing this? And clearly she makes it known, like she knows he's changed. Like, why are you doing this? And he's like, I don't want to.

And he she's like, what? Like she tries. You can see it in her head. There isn't the conversation. And she goes, oh, he goes, yeah, they have my wife and kid. And she's kind of like, oh, yeah. Like like there's no hesitation. And he still helps her, but she gets that what she's asking of him is risky. And she doesn't push it on him. You know what I mean?

At that point, there's a conversation, I think, in the next episode where they're like, can we trust Negan? And everybody clearly goes, Maggie trusts him, so I trust him. And it's like they took all of the stuff I was worried about. out in those two episodes yeah well it makes sense because like i think the second season plays a better balance of maggie and negan have you know worked on what what happened previously like Negan you know killed uh Glenn which was was uh Maggie's husband like

father of their unborn child, like of Herschel. And clearly there's history, there's trauma, and no one I think expects Maggie to like... forgive and forget and never um you know put it behind her like it's it's clearly this moment that uh that that has defined her and has scarred her and and it's traumatic but you know They do some really good discussion of that. They actually seem to address the fact that her character is very two-dimensional. She's obsessed with Negan. Yes.

To the point where it's actually a plot point where like the son has a conversation with her where it's like, like, like I had to practically raise myself because you were obsessed with him. Yeah. And, and. You don't pay attention to me because you're busy watching him. And it was not what I was expecting. Would I tell people that this is a great show? No, it's tolerable. It's good.

You have to go into it not thinking too hard, because if you do, you're going to see plot holes. Because we spent an entire first season with them running around in Manhattan. And there was lots of nobodies. Like there weren't people at all. And they did finally run into people. And it was like a small group. And now it's being established that there's like armies. There's like separate factions of armies.

in manhattan and and that the people we met in the first season were just one small part and i'm like okay so you're trying to make it look bigger than it actually was the last time okay I got to suspend a little bit of disbelief, but okay, I can do that. But the story they're telling is interesting. And I said this to Ryan off air. I don't think our villains in this season are the real villains. I think this Babylon that conscripts Maggie is going to be our villain in the next season.

Right. Yeah, because New Babylon is still a threat. It's been established as this large group that, you know, prioritizes law and order. That's the other thing that bothers me is the New Babylon people. Walking Dead villains are Walking Dead villains, so the Dom and her factions or whatever, they're interesting and entertaining, if not two-dimensional, and I can forgive that, whatever, they're bad guys. Yeah. The...

The Babylon people bother me because they just seem poorly written. They show up. And they basically tell Maggie she's going to be conscripted. And they immediately hang a guy because he fled conscription. And it's supposed to establish that that's their law and order. And they've become the new saviors, the way I view them. Yeah, that makes sense. And my thought process is...

Yep, these are traditional Walking Dead villains. They're supposed to be the people that are here to help you, but they're really the bad guys. Okay, whatever. And I feel like they go a little too heavy-handed with the Babylon.

characters uh the the woman who is i think the general that leads them you can see that she's kind of she wants them to do what they got to do but you can see that she's kind of conflicted about what they're going to do she doesn't want to conscript people but she knows she has to she doesn't want to

hang the guy, but she knows she needs to make them afraid of her, but she doesn't want to. But her second in command lady, the woman, I never caught her name. I just referred to her as the angry lady I wish would die.

Her character is completely one-dimensional. At every turn, she does everything you expect the character to do. At every turn, no matter what happens, her answer is always... do the wrong thing uh and like like she establishes something happens and she establishes well we just just kill them and They're like, yeah, but there's more of them than us. And she's like, but that doesn't matter. We should just kill them. And you're like, that's her answer to every problem.

It got annoying. The thing I enjoyed the least about this whole season was every time she was on camera, I was like, oh, great. Her answer to everything is going to be just kill everybody or just kill this person or she goes ahead and she kills somebody and you go. that's not going to work. You can portray people as tyrants, but you have to give them a little bit of humanity.

And her character was – there was no humanity. Her answer to everything was just kill people. Just kill people. And in real life – I have a hard time believing that somebody like that wouldn't just get a knife in their back at some point and be dead. Well, she was power hungry, right? Like very, very power. She wasn't even like. She was outranked by the guy from the first season. They established that. And she stabs him in the back as soon as she can. Yeah, I think there was a moment like.

There's a moment. So they discover this group of people that are living in Central Park. And that was the moment where I was like, oh, wow, this is she's very one dimensional because as soon as they find these people, they're like, well, we have to sign them up. for new Babylon or else we kill them. And I'm like, what?

Why? Why would you? I think there's a middle ground here, guys. Well, not only that, but it comes out of nowhere. Like they just got rescued. These people outnumber them like three to one. And her answer is like, I have a gun. And I'm like, your character would have been dead 20 minutes ago. Yeah, well, she doesn't last that much longer. I mean, they are not afraid to kill off the bad guys in this season.

we're not even done the season watching it. And I think they, they off like a majority of the big bads, you know? Yeah, no, uh, they, they're dying one by one by one by one. Um, And as I told Ryan, my theory is that they're killing them all off as fast as possible because I think the next season is lining back the...

Frontier Federation of Babylon or whatever the hell they call themselves. They're setting them up to be bad guys. The other thing I will say, you have to try and not think too hard about... is that they're obsessed with the fact that they're using the zombies to make methane to power all the electricity in Manhattan.

Which I will admit, I think is a really cool, ingenious idea. But apparently the reason Babylon is in charge is because they have ethanol and they're using the ethanol to light... torches and lamps and all that stuff and all i keep thinking was is wait didn't they have electricity In the last season of Walking Dead. I'm trying to remember the name of the city that they were in at the end. Commonwealth, wasn't it?

the commonwealth didn't the commonwealth literally have like electricity powered by like solar panels and generators that would generate they were they were using zombies to power generators or something stupid Yes, but they they couldn't light up Broadway, you know, come on. No, no, but they had electricity and they're making it sound like electricity is not something that like other places haven't figured things out about. And I'm just like.

okay, all right, I got to suspend some disbelief here. And the other thing, too, is that they don't even address the Commonwealth. I'm like, if these Babylon people are here... and they seem to be moving east and taking over cities as they move east, and they're coming from Manhattan, you'd think that the Commonwealth would be involved and be like, no, no, no, no, no.

What are you doing? You'd think that Maggie would be sending help to the Commonwealth and be like, guys, these Babylon people, I need help. But we've left all that behind or whatever. That's fine. Whatever. I'm trying not to think too hard about it. Well, we've talked about this before. And I think the biggest struggle with these Walking Dead spinoffs and series and stuff. is that they're not connected in any sort of narrative.

way you know the there are characters that jump from one to the other and there are teases of connections specifically with fear where morgan walks off and says i'm gonna go find my friend are we gonna get any payoff to that Probably not. I think we are. I mean, maybe eventually, but there's nothing on the schedule for it. I mean, unless they throw it in. It's going to be a Tales of the Walking Dead. Well, that was all...

All those episodes were... Yeah, no, I remember that, but wasn't Tales from the Walking Dead like all anthology separate stuff except for Alpha? No. Alpha and Negan. Is there a Negan episode? There's a Deegan episode. Why am I mad? It's the episode where we're introduced to his wife that passed away. I thought that was just a flashback episode. Nope, that was a Tales episode. Huh.

Well, I remember the episode, but yeah, well, there you go. Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong. I mean, this is the this is the thing about Dead City and why we were sort of apprehensive, because from season one, you can tell like this is. This is more The Walking Dead for good or bad. And I think season two corrects a couple of issues that we had with the Negan-Maggie relationship.

It corrects a lot of issues. The problem is they're the only characters that are compelling. And Kim Coates' character. He's highly entertaining. Oh, yeah. But the Dom, here's my issue with her as a character. They established that she was a theater critic. in new york city and that she has all this power but they don't explain where her power comes from she does nothing but boss people around i'm like why would anybody do what she asks of them why are they afraid of her

What did she like? Like she's not that threatening, threatening of a character and she didn't come up with the plans for any of this stuff. All of this stuff seems to be. coming up by people underneath her so what uses she so when her character is finally betrayed and uh Spoiler warning, because you haven't finished episode six. She's in episode seven, just so you know. Isn't she dead? No. Oh, okay. They think she's dead. She's not dead. So she...

So she Scooby-Doo's it, right? She's like, oh, you thought it was me under the burning candlelight. No. Interesting. Okay. I don't know how I feel about that. It's really dumb. I saw a trailer that hinted that she was still alive. And I was like, oh, please don't. Please tell me that's not true. She gets... So Negan... This is the thing I did like about this season is like they.

Negan is under, we established he's trapped. They have his family. He's being forced to put on the Negan mask again from what we knew in early Walking Dead days. But you can tell he's subdued and he's only bringing it out when he needs to. But he's constantly being watched and he is punished multiple times for like pulling his punches. And.

And his punishments are stupid. Like, he lets Herschel live because they were going to blow up the boat Herschel was on. And he hesitated long enough to get Herschel off the boat. What does she do? She kills his friend in front of and I'm like, I'm like, she's not that smart because she's basically taking away.

All the leverage she has against him. The only leverage she has against him at that point is his... is his wife and kid and it's like as soon as he can get them away or he can establish he's going to double cross you lady he's not this is not going to go the way you think it is just because you can blackmail somebody

Doesn't mean he's going to keep doing what you want. He doesn't like what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and you do, you do see that as it progresses that he starts to find opportunities to. And the other part that bothers me with the show, and again, I checked my brain at the door. So I enjoyed my time with it. I'm going to finish these last two episodes I have left. She falls hook, line, and sinker for every trap that Negan sets up for her. And I'm like, she's too stupid.

How is this lady in charge and has gas? She's too stupid to be in charge. Any of these other people underneath her would just throw her under the bus. She'd get thrown off that roof and somebody else would take over. Yeah, maybe. It's hard to tell. I mean, she's a very imposing character, but you're right. They clearly respect and are afraid of her. I just don't understand where it comes from.

They don't establish it. I mean, even the Croat, he's he's he's sort of and Negan says it's like, why are you so afraid of her? She treats you like crap. And he sort of sets him up to to create that friction. uh, to cause the, and I, I saw where that was coming a mile away. And when she finds her dead rat, which triggers the, the herded loser shit on the Croat. I was like,

I was like, you're telling me she's so stupid that she can't see through what Negan just did. I would have seen this a mile away that Negan's been playing you both. He's not stupid. You think he's stupid. He's not. But he's playing you and he thinks you're stupid, but you shouldn't be. But oh, wait, this is Walking Dead writing and you've got to cram this into eight episodes. So, yeah, you're stupid. Yeah, I don't.

I don't know. Like you're right. You have to check your brain at the door. I feel like I did that for the majority of this season and I, I enjoyed it and I enjoyed, I enjoyed like, this is not the worst walking dead. You're going to watch. This is not World Beyond. No, this is I'd say this is probably like good Walking Dead. Not the greatest, but like.

Probably on par with like the final seasons or so where they got it across the finish line. This is a continuation of that quality. I will say one of the things I do appreciate, I won't say that they're writing teenagers really well. But they're not falling into a lot of the tropes that Walking Dead usually does with teenagers. Herschel.

is clearly going through some kind of weird PTSD, and he's been sort of brainwashed by the Dom. And they establish that, while I don't always buy it, if that's a story they're telling, he acts fine. It's not... It's not poorly acted. He doesn't make a decision where I go, why would you do that? All of his decision makings fit the storyline of what's going on. He doesn't really add any drama to what's going on in the way they usually do.

And then they establish that, I can't remember the girl's name, but she clearly wants to kill Negan. And there's one scene where she is kind of like, she makes a mistake trusting somebody she shouldn't. And you go, oh, this is not going to end well for that person. They're going to try and make her a bad guy. And then they don't. And I appreciate what they're doing with these characters. They've handled teenagers much better than they usually do. It's not great.

But it's not awful. Well, Herschel has a really good line, probably the best line that I'd seen in the show, where he says, why do we keep trying to bring back the old world? Every time someone tries to do that, it just leads to more fighting. like and and death and destruction and and he he's making a very valid point it's like when we try to bring back the old world it just causes shit to go down whereas if we just like live

usually things are calm. Like, I mean, that doesn't apply to every antagonist in The Walking Dead, but it really applies to this specific moment because everybody's fighting. over uh as you said this like supposed resource uh that they want to tap into which is all the all the dead in the sewers of of new york city um but but yeah like uh

I thought that, I think the character's name is Ginny. I thought she was upset because Negan told her, I killed your parents. But I got the sense that Negan only said that so she would... Leave him. No, he he did kill her father. Oh, OK. But he didn't. It was self-defense when he killed her father, I think. Oh, they were trying to rob him or something. And that's why he was wanted.

That was why he was wanted. Negan defended himself and he killed that guy. And he rescued her because she didn't have anybody. And when he killed the guy, he didn't know that he had a daughter. So he took her with him. Because the idea was he was trying to make up for the fact that he killed her father, that he didn't. He was trying to do the right thing. We'll finish up the season and we'll we'll report back on. I mean, it's been renewed for a third season, so.

I don't think we'll do a full episode on it like we did this time, but I think we'll do a quick update. Yeah. I do have some clips, though, before we wrap up. This is near the beginning of the season and kind of wraps up. I think everybody had this question. I just love the way he... he chats with everybody. He is just fantastic character. Uh, and I do like your theory that you feel he's gonna, he's gonna side with new Babylon and, and I don't know how the Dom comes back and.

Factors into all that kind of wrecks that theory. I think she's going to be dead by the end of the season. You know, I almost want to like look it up just just so I don't care. Let's see, because, yeah, the Dom's character. Let's see what what happens to her, because she very clearly is on fire in episode four. And. I think it was episode four at the very end, right? No, no, no. It's the Dama. The Dama. And let's see if she comes back in episode... Yes, she does, in episode seven.

Yeah, revealed to be still alive and captures Maggie doodly-doo-doo-doo. Oh, gosh. Maybe we should have watched the whole season because it seems... look like it falls apart in the last episode. To the point where it looks like Herschel abandons his mother to side with Adama and she faked her death. So, yeah, Maggie, Negan, and Pearly, whoever Pearly is, is that the lady? I thought her name was Gina. No, Pearly's the Colonel.

oh okay okay yeah yeah yeah that guy he's cool he he's uh he's he's he plays both sides i guess like he's new babylon yeah yeah okay uh yeah it looks like it looks like it kind of falls apart and then they're setting up the big final confrontation um but the fact that the dama comes back i faked my death okay all right well anyways We can read Wikipedia later. We also have this one. This is leading into, we saw the zombie sort of arenas that they have.

And we'll chat on the other side of this clip about this character. You have the biggest dude, a big fucking Frankenstein of a dude. He is, isn't he? Like, I saw it coming as soon as... people started to question why he was winning so much the guy they had in the arena and the fact that it was like yeah like a an alive human being but clearly like they don't

They don't get into it, but very clearly something weird and not great is going on there because he's not a zombie, but he's very clearly being fed rats to eat. Well. Well, they make you think he is a zombie. Yes. The first time you see him. And then as soon as you see him in the arena, you're like, that dude's not a zombie. He has far too much motor skills to be a zombie.

And but then like he I guess he was his old bodyguard or something. He was. That's who it is. Yeah. But he's very clearly like like why are they feeding him like. raw rats to eat he's got him pumped full of drugs oh okay well that's what the the the the the croat says to him whatever that is meaning the zombie is You've got it pumped full of drugs. That's why it's so powerful. Yeah, okay. I'll take it. I mean, they kind of like... They do...

They do drop it as soon as it's like, oh, Negan found out. Well, you're no longer of use to me. You've got to go. So and I won't lie. I like his I like his little watch knife. That's I think feel like that's going to play into a plot line soon. i don't under like i guess i get it but like sometimes there are these weapons that are so impractical like he's got a switchblade in his watch it's like uh okay sure uh

Use a fountain pen that's sharp enough to like cut someone's neck open like that. All right. Maybe don't sharpen it as much next time. I don't know. Although I've never used a fountain pen. Maybe they are all as sharp as that. But. We do get some moments of levity, specifically with Maggie and Pearlie and Herschel. There's a moment in Central Park and we get this gem. Maybe a Kit Kat. Give me a break.

Give me a break. Break me off a piece of that. Do you think they get kickbacks for that? I'd be willing to bet money A&C doesn't do anything without some money. They get like a... I mean, it fits, right? Like they're talking about a chocolate. I don't know if I'd go like, it's the apocalypse. I haven't had a chocolate bar in over a decade. Do I go to Kit Kat? Probably not. But iconic. ad jingle probably one of the few chocolate bars that has one right yeah so I get that anyways

Let's put our hands together for what we watched of Dead City. Well, come on. For you. And you. Both of you. Come on, give it up. Give it up. I mean, cheering's a bit much, but okay. All right. I mean, it was okay, but fair enough. That was Dead City. season two what we watched of it and then what we've read uh on on wikipedia on fandom.com but uh yeah we'll we'll watch the rest of it and we'll do a little intro blurb about

about what our thoughts were, but, uh, um, yeah, I mean, coming up on Zam, as we hinted at, at the top of the show, uh, Daryl and Carol, they're going to get their turn on the walking dead spotlight. Marvel zombies. Coming up very soon, all four episodes dropping September 24th. And we're working on a special guest surprise coming down the road where we're going to watch a movie of their choosing.

So stay tuned for that little crossover. Looking forward to that. And we're going to have a lot of fun. But Lou, that is going to do it for our episode. I want to thank the patrons at patreon.com slash Zombies Ate My Podcast. You can visit us on the web, zombiesatemypodcast.com for show notes and all of our episodes.

Send us an email and we may read it on the show. Info at ZombiesAteMyPodcast.com Of course we have our Discord at tiny.cc slash Zamp Discord. It's the best place to connect with Lou and I as well as fellow listeners. This has been Zombies Ate My Podcast, and as always, we close out the show with some fine zombie knowledge from the busy zombie lord himself. Take it away, Lou. Lucille with a trigger is amazing. Oh, yeah. Well, come on.

For you. And you. Both of you. Come on. Give it up. Give it up. Give it up. Yep. Lucille with barbed wire electric button. Although I'll say this. Lucille. as a prop, always looked really good in The Walking Dead. But I don't know if they did this on purpose, but the Lucille looks super duper fake in Dead City.

Probably the, like the fact that it has the switch. Certain scenes, it looks really fake. There's a couple of scenes where it looks good. And then there's a couple of scenes where you can tell it's like a rubber prop. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I want to give the show enough credit to be like, yeah, but it's a, it's a manifestation of the fact that Negan doesn't want to be Negan and he's fake Negan. So he's got a fake bat and it's over commercialized.

You're putting more thought into it than the creators of the show.