This episode of Zdenek's English podcast is sponsored by a brand new podcast, The Footglitch Podcast. An English learning podcast about football by the same podcaster that records this podcast. Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and wherever you listen to your podcasts. Shut up! I'm listening to Zdenek's English podcast. You're listening to Zdenek's English podcast. By far the greatest English podcast on earth for English learners since sliced bread. My name is Zdenek and I'm your host.
Hello guys, welcome back to Zdenek's English podcast. And today's podcast, I hope, is going to be to the point because I'm talking to Ben from the To The Point English YouTube channel. Hi Ben, welcome back to the podcast. Hi Zdenek, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Anytime, man, anytime. It's been a while since I talked to you last time. How have you been? Yeah, I'm very well. Not much news, to be honest. Just making YouTube videos and preparing people
for their Cambridge exams, that type of thing. But yeah, all good here. How are things with you? Yeah, not too bad. I'm in Vietnam, so I'm preparing for going back to Europe for a few months. The plan is to probably come back here after that. But we will see. It's still open more or less. Well, it's nice to have the option, isn't it? Doesn't really matter where you are when you record stuff online.
No, exactly. That's the beauty of it. You can live anywhere in the world with a half decent internet connection and you can keep it going. Exactly. So Ben, just to remind my listeners, you are an English teacher, a YouTuber, and I would say you're something like a Cambridge exam specialist. You specialize in teaching exams such as Cambridge First, Cambridge Advanced, and Cambridge Proficiency. The old names were FCE, CAE, CPE. I still use them. And do you?
Yeah, it's strange. It's a mix now. When I make a video and I put the description of what's in the video, I have to put both the old names, for example, CPE and the new name, C2 Proficiency, because some people still use the old name and some people only know it as its new name. So it's all a bit confusing. But yeah, FCE is the B2 first, CAE is C1 Advanced, and CPE is C2 Proficiency. Those are the three Cambridge exams that I specialize in. That's right.
There's going to be a generational divide, Ben, I think. The boomers will always use FCE, CPE, CAE. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. That's true. And then the generation Z. They will never have heard of these acronyms. So they will be so confused. Exactly. It took me months, if not years, to get used to the new names. And now we're in the middle. Yeah. So it depends who you're talking to, really. Some people have no idea what the CAE is. Some people have no idea what the C1 Advanced is.
But yeah, I think Cambridge should maybe invent a completely new name. Or just start again, because it's so confusing at the moment. I think there are a lot of changes coming in the next few years. If you do that, Ben, you know what's going to happen. You're going to have a three-way confusion. Yeah, that's true. And I wouldn't have enough space on my YouTube video thumbnails to put all the different names in. And the keywords
as well. There's a limit for your keywords as well. Exactly. Yeah. It's crazy. All right, Ben. So just to remind our viewers and listeners, I say viewers because this is also published on my YouTube channel, on the Teachers Thenek YouTube channel. We have done a podcast. It was back in 2020, I believe, during the COVID time. And since then, I remember when I was doing that with you, you were like one of those YouTubers,
like me, I would say, with just a couple of subscribers. But since then, you have come a long way. Your YouTube channel has taken off. And we can even see behind you, there is that, what do you call that? The placard? What's that? I call it a plaque, but I think they call it the YouTube button. It's a button, I think they call it. But it's like a plaque. Yeah, that's the plaque. Yeah, that's the button. Is that silver? That's the silver one. Yeah, it's not real silver.
But it is quite nice. I haven't checked, but you can feel it's quite good. It's quite heavy and it feels quality, but it's not real silver. But yeah, that's the 100,000 subscriber button. You say, I don't remember the word you used that it's taken off. It was like a spike. So as you said, I was kind of just chugging along at a few hundred or a few thousand subscribers. And then it took
off for about two months and then it went back down again. So I don't know what happened. I think the YouTube algorithm got excited and started recommending my videos all over the world. And then it calmed down and now it's just continuing. So I reached the 100,000 subscriber mark about two years ago. No, a year and a half ago. So now 150,000. So it's all good. As you know, it's not just about getting subscribers. It's about helping people. I
think it's the beauty of being online, having an online presence. You can just reach more people and help more people as you do. Yeah, but that number is kind of, it's like in this world of content creation, it tells you something. So you have reached out to so many people and people have been following you. And that's a good thing. And I'm kind of proud that I knew you back then when you were not famous yet. It makes me feel proud that you were on my podcast. I knew there
was potential in you. You spotted it even before everyone else did, before the algorithm did. Absolutely. Or maybe it was because of my appearance on your podcast. I don't think so. It created the first ripples. I doubt that. I think it, I don't know. Who knows how the algorithm works. But it's a good story. It would be a good story. Yeah. Yeah. It's all down to you. Maybe it was the same other people who have appeared on your podcast, who have now have hundreds of thousands of
subscribers. It's all down to you. And those that don't, we don't talk about them. Oh, no. Don't mention those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also one more thing we should say is that you've been on my YouTube channel a few times because you are a West Ham fan. You support the Hammers. And I used to run this show called English, Learn English with Football, where I would review the Premier League weekend.
And occasionally you came on as well to talk about West Ham matches. So that we have done that too a few times. Yeah. Haven't we? Yeah. It's good fun. It's good fun to talk about something that we enjoy other than teaching English. Of course, we both enjoy teaching English, but it's our job. But something we have in common, which is football in this case. And exactly. Yeah. And you have a bit of a connection with West Ham too. I do. I do.
The Czech players. Yeah. Absolutely. So, okay. Well, I invited you Ben today. First of all, I really wanted to catch up with you because... Hi, I am Serkan. I like the Achievers' Chamber because it helps you practice whenever you want. For more information about the Achievers' Chamber, go to teachersdenek.com. I really wanted to catch up with you because I thought it was a nice opportunity to do it. Now that you have the silver button. No, I'm kidding. I'm joking. I'm joking. Yeah.
I really think it's a nice opportunity to discuss with you something related to exams because there's another connection. Now that I'm living in Vietnam, Ben, I teach quite a few exam classes, but as you may guess, here it's more about the IELTS exam. Well, would you say that a lot of the stuff that we can talk about, there's a lot of overlap between the IELTS exam and these Cambridge exams that you mentioned? Yes. And other exams too, I think. I mean, there are some tips that I give
that... I'm thinking of the B2 First, C1 Advanced, C2 Proficiency Cambridge English exams, but they are completely valid for other exams. There's some things that just apply to all exams or most English exams, really. So yeah, I mean, I don't specialize in IELTS, but I know the general format and I know there are some similarities to the Cambridge exams. So yeah, a lot of the tips and preparation should be quite similar too. I assume you teach kind of all the skills,
don't you? Because the thing is I only teach IELTS speaking here. Okay. That's what I do. No, no. I teach all the skills. I have online preparation courses, which look at every single part of every paper of the exams. So I give tips on how to do the use of English, the reading, the writing, listening, and speaking. I think some people
struggle with different areas. A lot of people do struggle with the speaking. I think the writing paper is probably the one that most people struggle with the most, but also listening. So it depends. I mean, these are very difficult exams, the Cambridge exams, even the B2 First, which is the lowest level that I teach or that I help students prepare for. It's a difficult exam.
It's a really tough exam. So when you talk about the C1 Advanced and C2 Proficiency, when you talk about the C1 Advanced and C2 Proficiency, they're tough and you need to prepare well and you need a strategy and you need to know how to approach every part. It's the same for the IELTS. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned writing being the toughest part. I took the exam back in 2017 just to see. I think at the time I wanted to go to the Middle East to teach in the
Middle East. Someone told me that I would need to prove my level to them, not being a native speaker. And I did get eight in IELTS in the end, but only because I completely messed up the writing part. I only got seven in writing and that's after having written a master's thesis in English and all that. So it's not like I can't write. It's just I didn't prepare properly for it and I didn't have enough time to proofread it and I wrote too much. So I got only seven and as a result my overall score
was eight. I was just half a point away from getting 8.5 in overall score just because of that. And that would have been C2 level, right? Now I'm like borderline C1, C2, I guess. Yeah. I still think I'm C2 but like I need to... Zdenek, you are C2. You are definitely a C2 English speaker without a doubt. I can tell you that. Oh thank god. But that's the frustrating thing about exams is that you don't always get the score that you deserve or kind of deserve.
I mean if you had prepared for the writing you would have got that score and I see that so often with my students they kind of either they don't prepare enough for the exam in general or they neglect the writing paper because nobody likes writing essays or reporting things. I can't stand it. I can't bear it. Yeah. That's the thing that everybody... Yeah. Everyone will find an excuse and it's such a pity because it could... In your case it can mean the difference between C1 and
C2 or B2, C1 or even a pass and a fail. So well obviously you can't fail the IELTS but with the B2 first, C1 advanced and C2 proficiency you can. But it's... I know nobody likes it. Nobody enjoys writing essays. Ben, sorry to interrupt you. I don't even like teaching it as a teacher. I've got my own preferences. I know exactly who I love to teach, what sort of levels I love to teach. For example, I don't like teaching the little children. It's not for me. Thank you very much.
I prefer adults or teenagers at most. I know. Yeah. And then what to teach. So I can also become a specialist. So here in Vietnam they are quite happy about the fact that I teach IELTS speaking because of my pronunciation which is very clear and also that's what they do here. The Vietnamese teachers teach the passive skills, let's say. And what do you call it? Not passive skills. The receptive skills. Whereas the foreign teachers teach the productive skills
and especially speaking. Yeah. Well writing is one of the productive skills but as you said nobody likes doing it or teaching it. And I find that my students who bite the bullet and decide to practice writing an essay or one of the other tasks, they really want me to do everything for them. They want me to say what phrase can I use here? What linker can I use here? What grammar should I use? And I do give them as many tips and as much help as possible but at the end of the day
it's them that has to write the composition. They have to think about what content they want to include and how they want to present the information and express their ideas. And it's practice. Unfortunately at the end of the day that's the only way to improve especially writing. It's just by doing it. And it's just sitting down and starting. You don't have to, the first time you do it, you don't have to write a complete essay in 45 minutes. You can take your time just write
a one paragraph introduction paragraph one day and just get started. And as I said it's so frustrating as a teacher who helps students prepare for the exam to see these results statements where you know people could get an A in speaking, an A in use of English and maybe a C or a D level in in the writing just because they didn't prepare. That's a huge discrepancy isn't it? Well, Ben, Ben, first of all let me remind everyone yeah to the point English with Ben is the name of your
channel, your YouTube channel. That is also a dot at the end isn't there? Like a full stop after Ben. Full stop yeah. Okay I don't remember doing that. I've just checked your... That's the point I guess. That's like a little joke like an inside joke. Probably when I came up with it years ago when I here when I set up my YouTube channel I probably did do that on purpose yeah. I think it's it doesn't
matter if you when you're searching for the YouTube channel in the search bar. I don't think it matters if you don't if you don't add the full stop there but I think it is there anyway so that's where people can find your YouTube channel but you also mentioned that you've got some courses.
Yeah so where can we find that then? Well in the description of pretty much all my YouTube videos you'll find the link to my online courses also on my website which is TTPenglish.com so TTP like from to the point TTPenglish.com.
Yeah and also I have an Instagram account which I'm relatively active on not not very but you can find the link there but yeah to be honest I because I was specializing in the Cambridge exams through my YouTube videos I was getting a lot of interest from students who wanted me to help them prepare. They wanted classes preparation classes and I didn't have enough time to be able to
take on all the students so I thought what can I do? Well I'll just record basically my classes that I give you know with all the slides all the information all my tips and I'll make them into an online course so although I can't give the the classes myself people can go on and they see the the video lessons and like as I said I'd look at in detail at all the different parts of of the exams and there are advantages and disadvantages to online courses but I think there are more advantages
they're cheaper first of all than face-to-face classes overall. You can do them at your own pace at your own time from your house or from even if you're on the train or on the bus traveling to work or school whatever. You're offline you download it somewhere exactly yeah yeah and you can repeat the the lesson as many times as you as you want. That's true without without getting embarrassed and you know nobody needs to be embarrassed. Exactly.
You know nobody needs to know exactly yeah if you if you missed something just rewind the video but students can contact me as well there's a discussion option on each of the lessons where they can ask me and I reply to every question I get so I think as I said before this online world is amazing and I think it's so it's good for for us as teachers but also for for the students there are so many options now. Absolutely okay well thank you for telling us about that and now the
next part of the show is Ben I have prepared something for us. You know how I told you that I teach IELTS speaking here well one day I prepared an exercise for my students. Basically it's a couple of statements about the exam it's just sort of like generic statements to do with the exam.
It's like thinking of let's say pros and cons and and do's and don'ts in this kind of sense and I thought what we could do is go through all these statements one by one and I'm going to basically pick your brain about it again this is this was made for IELTS but I think it's going to apply to to all those Cambridge exams as well it's going to be very similar I think the the I think the the main difference is that you describe pictures there right there's one exercise we have
to we have images and you have to describe them right and well yeah I'll just correct you there because you don't have to describe them that's the big that's quite important because you're never asked to describe the pictures you're asked to compare and and answer the questions you're right yeah you're right you're right yeah compare them and sort of you don't talk about what what you see visually it's not it's not about like telling telling the examiner that oh there's a bird in
the top left corner exactly I guess you could say but what you need to do is to go sort of beyond that and talk about that topic in a more abstract sense let's say it's it's inevitable that you will have to say what is in the picture and in you know what in the pictures but you have to do it in a way in which you are comparing not just describing so you could say in the first well in fact I always recommend to my students to say in the first picture we can see well no sorry I always
recommend we say in both pictures we can see people playing musical instruments for example in the first picture there are two people playing the guitar or playing guitars whereas in the second picture the people are playing the drums for example so there's a lot of ticked a lot of boxes ticked already I can I hear it all then I hear it all present present continuous there is a linker there there's all sorts of things going on at the same time and then I think it's about
this this exercise is about proving to the examiner that you can use comparative language language used for comparing right so structures like it's not as as and far more than and and stuff exactly yeah exactly and also speculative vocabulary because you'll get right depending on the exam one or two questions and well really we're talking about the b2 first and c1 advanced here but and the questions will be like what might the people be feeling so you
can't say the people are feeling very happy because you don't know you're speculating you say well the people might be or perhaps they are feeling happy or it looks like they are happy that type of thing and my personal favorite would be to use speculative language to talk about the past so this is here's my here's my sentence I would say well this picture must have been taken in a in a I don't know in a city right so you say yeah must have been plus ed exactly oh my god
that's like the examiner will be over the moon if you say that you'll get a pass immediately you could finish the exam there examiners wet dream we could say yeah probably yeah literally but but yeah that might have they might have been maybe they look tired so you say that the people in the picture look tired they might have been running they might have been running so yeah that's that structure past speculate speculation so little things like that which they're not easy
but they're once you learn them exactly you can use them it's almost whatever the picture you have exactly it's a it's a strategy it's like it's what i'm trying to instill in my students i'm trying to jump drum it into them that you have certain structures they can kind of almost always use if you're clever about it if you can improvise and you can sort of see um think outside the box and it's it's really possible to do that like yeah there are certain structures which which are
so flexible you can almost always use that like the one i just told you where it must have been taken so listen it's specs you're using modal verb to speculate about the past it's also in passive this is like oh my god yeah it's perfect and you can almost always say that because every every every picture someone must have taken the picture right yeah yeah and and there is a location where the picture was taken okay yeah it may not always be relevant to say that but it's kind of
easy to to do if it's your first sentence or something and and and once you use this it's also going to affect your your confidence i think because you know yes you have done it and then you just keep going you know it's like your springboard or something i think it will affect your confidence once you've used it but also before knowing that you have that up your sleeve that you you have this fantastic grammatical structure that you can use then that that will
make you feel more confident you're not just going to you're not going into the unknown without anything prepared you think okay well i can use it's the same with vocabulary there are certain absolutely words you can use whatever the pictures are so you just feel more confident that you can you can you're going to impress the examiners somehow absolutely so you can you you can relax a little bit and and just just do it put but it's all about preparing because you know we're talking
about one task in the speaking paper of a big exam so you have to have that attitude to every single part of the exam and it takes time to develop a strategy because there are other things to take into consideration too but i you may be asked you may ask me about those now so i won't i won't go on because we have to think about time management and that type of thing so yeah speaking of time management this is exactly what i struggle with here on the next english podcast
and sometimes i tend to go off on a tangent yeah and so uh it's exactly what just happened because i was about to go through those statements with you and then for some reason we ended up talking about images and pictures but that's okay that's okay here on this podcast you know we are forgiven it's not anything goes anything goes it's not such a big deal okay so i've got 15 of them so um i mean we could we could try to go fast or just or just cover just a few of them
doesn't matter um we'll see what happens um let's just wing it so when the first statements and i just a disclaimer all of these i made them by myself yeah so if you don't like any of them or you think think they're hogwash then just it's okay you can you can always uh question them as well so if you're confident it's okay to take the cambridge exam or iot exam without preparation then what do you think no i disagree completely i guess you're expecting that answer yes i think
that's one of the biggest mistakes people make and one of the the number one reason one of the number one of the main reasons that people fail is overconfidence especially with the c2 proficiency a lot of people have a really good level of english it's true that perhaps they have a c2 level of english so they they think they don't need to prepare for the exam that's a huge mistake you you maybe you wouldn't fail but you wouldn't get the score that you could possibly get just by
preparing understanding what you have to do what is what is asked of you what again time management having a strategy for each part i've seen it so often that people underestimate the exams that they don't really understand what they're getting themselves in in for and then they they don't pass yeah or they don't get the score they could get so yeah definitely even though their english might be actually or their english proficiency might be actually really really
high level and they could even be native speakers because if i occasionally i check these sort of statistics online about where the ios takers are from and you go through the countries the native speaker countries they they are actually not or not on the top of the list which you would assume they are not and i always wonder why and it's probably because of that you know you probably the takers they know they're native speakers and they get complacent about the exam
or i have no idea why this is happening i don't know i mean i don't know if those people from those native speaker countries are actually native english speakers or they're just living they have to say what their first language is and and okay the first language is english so it could be someone i don't know from south africa it could be some i know is some some indian people from india but not all of them they have english as their first language
it could be someone from great britain canada usa but yeah they think oh okay what's this exam about oh it's going to uh tell me what my english level is right yeah yeah yeah there are four skills you just quickly look at it i was like okay this is a piece of cake but then then it's not because it's not it's not especially i think the writing part might might be the one that because the speaking that usually kind of shows right you can kind of shows if you can speak english or not but
yeah the writing part also the the listening could be tricky as well because it's listening could not only listen it's multitasking it's a lot of multitasking you need to be really focused i you know i i do the tasks before i teach them before i prepare and i struggle i'm i usually get the questions right but i have to really concentrate because you have to understand what again if you do if the first time you do any of these tasks is on the day of the exam
you're going to struggle because absolutely it will be very overwhelming it just it's going to be you'll be in for a shock so yeah even even native english speakers would need to prepare absolutely you just need to go go through that experience of just familiarizing yourself with the format with the exam format so i think this one is you know there's there's no doubt about this and that this this is absolutely absolutely wrong so my second question is asking examiner questions
is okay what you what you stand on this ben in the speaking paper yes obviously yeah it's all about speaking by the way they all these questions are these are all about speaking okay i mean the first one was kind of about everything it's more general yeah yeah um uh no you shouldn't ask the it depends i mean you can ask them to repeat the question there's no problem with asking them to repeat the question you don't lose marks you won't be penalized for that i mean just do it once don't
don't ask it three or four times but um but generally no it's not an interaction with your with the examiner it's you i don't know with the iELTS but in the cambridge exams you have you will have a partner or at least one partner maybe two and there will be interactive tasks but yeah you shouldn't really ask the examiner his or her opinion or to react and always makes me laugh when i'm when i'm explaining this to my students i always tell them okay so when the examiner asks
you where where you're from and what you i don't know what what you do in your free time don't don't end don't answer the questions answering that question by saying and what about you just don't do that no it's maybe your instinct is to do that because you're polite and you want to you know you think you should be natural but no it's not it's not it's not important what the examiners think or where they're from so no just answer the questions and interact with your
partner when necessary right that's that's for the cambridge exams because in the iELTS exam there is no partner right but when it comes to examiners just they're like i don't want to say a fly on the wall it's not it's not the exact expression but they they are there only to ask you questions and and assess your english in the cambridge exams the there are two examiners in the room there's the interlocutor who's there to ask the questions and monitor the time and just
make sure it all goes to plan and then the assessor who is more like a fly on the wall they won't participate in any of the tasks but they will be taking notes and evaluating and assessing your performance so yeah there are two examiners but you only respond to the interlocutor and in the iELTS exam there's only one person and that person also assesses your speaking as far as i know because i know one iELTS examiner here in vietnam actually i cannot tell his name
or her name if it's if it's a woman and i'm not supposed to because they have to remain undercover right anonymous yeah top secret top secret yeah but they they they told me some ins and outs but the iELTS exam so yeah yeah it's good right uh yeah i completely agree with you ben so number three it's a good idea to correct yourself when you realize you've made a mistake yes i would agree with that one yeah not if you realize like 30 seconds or a minute or two minutes
later don't don't go back and say oh by the way that mistake i made two minutes ago i meant to say that no just if it's at the same moment as if you make a mistake and you realize immediately then just yeah correct yourself and then again in the cambridge exams that assessor who's waiting to to take notes will will not will not note that mistake you've corrected yourself so it's it's it's forgotten and forgiven what if i did what did i what if i did the following ben what if i said
oh by the way the mistake i meant the mistake i made two minutes ago i i feel really ashamed about that and had i not made that mistake i would now feel so much better now this would be a mixed conditional then wouldn't that be wonderful it would be a very impressive mixed conditional that's great but it would be irrelevant i think they would say because that's not that wouldn't be the task whatever the question the the interlocutor asked you wouldn't be about that so
unless unless it's a question about making mistakes yeah in that case you could use it as an example for example that mistake i made two minutes ago had i not made that mistake yeah etc so but yeah in general i i think you should just focus on the task you're on these hands speaking yeah these speaking tests pass so quickly that in the cambridge english exams they're about 15 or 16 minutes you don't have time to sort of think back to the mistakes you've made or to analyze yourself
you just have to stay in the zone and focus on the task at hand as you said yes and i've got one student yeah i'm not going to say what their name is but they always apologize after making a mistake so that's another thing i would say you should probably avoid doing because it's just it only slows you down and reduces your confidence and it's going to you're going to end up being self-conscious and don't do that don't apologize for making mistakes like you can you can say it
once you can say i'm sorry or something yeah it just don't constantly apologize every single time you make a mistake just to acknowledge yeah that you've made the mistake is you're wasting your your your time basically yeah and a very limited time precious time in the exams you know the time they give you is for you to to demonstrate your level so you have to use every second to the best the best of your ability to take advantage of every second and embrace embrace
the fact that you may occasionally make mistakes because everybody does and it's part of the learning process as we always say us the english teachers and if you're not at that c2 level like you're expected to make mistakes so just get on with it yeah you can still get an a in your exam if you make a mistake or a few mistakes i think that's a mistake or misunderstanding yeah especially with the c2 proficiency i think people think if you get an a in the c2 proficiency
you're perfect you're basically a native speaker you're fluent it's not the case you can get an a you can make mistakes and still get an a in all of the exams it's not about perfection it's just demonstrating your you know your high level of english absolutely i couldn't agree more so number four rambling and going off topic is better than staying silent that's it so we've got like two extremes right two extremes someone
someone who doesn't talk much or or makes long pauses and on the other on the other side of the spectrum you've got a candidate who just talks too much and often doesn't follow the the main topic yeah i think neither of them are ideal you want to try to avoid both but i would say the rambling is better than silence you know the examiners need something to evaluate they need to give them content so exactly saying anything is better than saying nothing that's what i was hoping for
and anyway the interlocutor in the cambridge english exams is responsible for interrupting you if if you if they feel the answer is too long or they have enough information then they just will interrupt you say thank you okay ben so next one on my list here is it's always a good idea to take risks using high level vocabulary even if you are not sure i mean let's let's say you don't know exactly how to pronounce it or you don't know if it's an idiom you don't know
the grammar around it is there is there an article or not which preposition should i use so where do you stand on this one that's a tricky one because i think you should i wouldn't say you should take risks um because this is an exam i think when you're in class or in in real life situations i think you it's a good idea to practice different vocabulary different idioms expressions even if you're not 100 sure because that's that's how you learn by using them but in an exam they are
evaluating you know if you're using the appropriate words and expressions it probably depends on the level too i mean if you if you attempt a high level idiom in the b2 first exam the examiners are going to appreciate the attempt even if you don't get it quite right but at c2 level for example you're expected to be more precise with your with your vocabulary you should use the right preposition you should you know you should get the word you know with binomials for example you
should use them you know you don't say cheese and chalk you should say chalk and cheese those little details that are important at c2 level but if it's a trinomial it's gonna be even worse yeah is it tall dark and handsome or is it is it handsome tall dark or is it handsome dark and tall you got it right the first time i think instinctively is tall dark and handsome yeah it just flows for me it flows flows better yeah tall tall dark and handsome but i mean that that is a tricky question because
i i would encourage students in general to to have fun and experiment with and not experiment but risk take risks as you said try different types of expressions in other situations but in an exam i think you should probably play it a bit safer and don't take so many risks would you agree with that or i would to the point to a point personally i think it's worth taking at least a little risk otherwise i think your your speech might might end up being very boring and mundane and
so i would say there's there's there's a good balance to taking some risks and not taking any risks at all but you're calculated risks a calculated risk yeah absolutely um i think yeah it's it's okay it's okay with idioms let's say it really depends on the level as you said but like if i'm not sure i don't know there are so many idioms where i'm not sure if if it's with the or uh for instance right and i feel like if you're clever about it and you for example you
say it very fast it's almost it you can't almost hear the difference between uh and the sometimes so that's one way of bypassing that i suppose yeah yeah i think the sometimes i see i have students who are really obsessed with the vocabulary they think that they just have to include seven advanced expressions in every or words in every sentence and it just sounds unnatural and they don't get some of them quite right and it can be quite difficult to understand them sometimes
because they're just trying too hard and it's not about using lots of advanced vocabulary it's about using the appropriate vocabulary for the context and if sometimes that vocabulary that appropriate vocabulary happens to be an advanced word or expression fantastic but i think you have to be careful when you try to force vocabulary into into your your answers um it's a balance it's a balancing act you have to sound natural after all and yeah that includes sometimes using pauses and
using pauses and stuff like that and vague vague expressions like stuff like that and you know yeah and don't just use idioms for the sake of using idioms although i am i may be a hypocrite because i sometimes tell my students do exactly that in a clever way though just don't over do it don't over do it if you're confident i think you need to be confident in that you're you know how to use the idiom and that you're using it in the right context with the right order of the words
because they can be difficult but um if you another problem is that some people start using an idiom and they get stuck in the middle because they're not really sure how to finish it and they start panicking and just um as long as you don't put the horse before the cart you are exactly exactly or is it horse is it card before the horse card before the horse yeah don't put the cart before the horse yeah it's a good example yeah yeah because obviously it's more
natural for the course to go in front of the cart so the opposite would be strange that's the idea of the idiom yeah that was a joke yes yeah all right uh that's what you could do as well like if you if you if you tell this idiom and it's a joke i mean i'm not sure that one of the statements is about jokes but actually i should find it now let's see where is it god i cannot see it now anyway it will come sooner or later
okay how about this one then you should never use the same words as the examiner used in the exam um in the question sorry in the question okay uh never that's a very strong word a very definitive word no i i wouldn't say i think you can use the same words i think you should try to paraphrase or find synonyms when you can but i sometimes it's kind of inevitable or it's very difficult to avoid using the same words
and i mean that's similar in the writing paper too some i see students sometimes writing all any word except the word that's in the question and that sometimes is very unnatural so similar with the speaking you don't want to if you can avoid sort of repeating any vocabulary whether it's the the examiner yourself repeating words you've already used or your partner uh you want to try and avoid that as much as possible but sometimes it's not possible so
it's not a big problem sometimes you can repeat the words and then add a synonym or use a synonym later or paraphrase but i wouldn't say never no yeah i i completely agree with you and i think it boils down to the word itself like if it's if it's a word like if someone asks you a question about computers what's this what's a synonym for computers yeah exactly machines machines that compute learning machines it just doesn't make sense and i've seen things things like with
children when children is in the question and people say teenagers or adolescents or toddlers or it's not the same and yeah those are all types of children but children is more general so you're specifying and it's not it's a good idea to find if you can find a synonym but kids kids is fine a good synonym in speaking for for children so yeah be careful with that it's again it's common sense really it is yes okay it's better to be nervous about the exam
than overconfident what do you make of this yeah i would agree with that i would say yes i think it's natural to be nervous it's almost everybody gets nervous before an exam not you know there are a few very confident people that don't get nervous but it's completely natural and nerves being nervous can help you to focus um that's why we get nervous i think to help us do these difficult things well if you know if you weren't nervous you probably wouldn't
force yourself to prepare enough and focus on the day of the exam so yes i would definitely say it's better to be nervous than overconfident but again it's the balance you don't excessive nerves can can cause can be a hindrance in the exam because you you can't think clearly so if you can just take deep breaths and try to control your nerves a little bit then that's great but definitely better than being overconfident can you be overconfident and nervous at the same time is
that even possible uh i don't think so but perhaps i think some people are very confident before the exam but the moment they're in the exam room they suddenly get nervous and that that's a problem because they they then hadn't prepared and they have the the worst of both worlds they're not prepared and they're nervous yeah well said well said all right just it's a good opportunity one little motto slogan i say don't be scared be prepared because the way to avoid or to overcome
nerves is to be prepared you know the more prepared you are the less nervous you will be usually absolutely yeah absolutely how about this one being well dressed keeping eye contact and using body language and hand gestures matters uh yes i think the other body language and hand that non-verbal communication is important it's not evaluated there's no like it's not part of the marking criteria but it does again talking about the cambridge exams where you have a partner
you should look at your partner and sort of turn your body towards them when they're speaking to show you that you're paying attention and nod your head when when you agree smile when they say something funny that type of thing that's part of communication so yes i think that matters being well dressed again it depends i mean yeah don't go in probably i wouldn't recommend you go to the exam in shorts and t-shirt i mean well a t-shirt that should be okay but you
don't need to wear a suit or anything like that but don't be a slob these these things make an impression but i don't think that's so important to be honest iron iron your clothes before you can i take the exam before before um sorry can i take the exam in a uh west ham united shirt or arsenal shirt arsenal no west ham yes you you'll get bonus points if you take it in a west ham united shirt and if i take if i if i take a spurs shirt that that would definitely make me fail the
exam you wouldn't be allowed through the door you'd be sent home immediately to get changed to wear something more appropriate yeah if i were the examiner i would do exactly the same yeah exactly yeah all right it's desirable to be funny and try to make the examiner laugh i'm gonna say no i disagree because i but not completely because i think if you you have so much to worry about and think about for the exam and it's you know you're gonna be
nervous so you're gonna be focusing on doing the tasks to the best of your ability and using good vocabulary grammar interacting thinking about your pronunciation the time so to have to think i have to make jokes as well i would say no however if you do have an opportunity to say something funny or just keep it light-hearted i think that demonstrates to the examiners that you are confident and you you have a good command of english so i don't think you should worry about
it but you know if you if you're that type of person then don't hold back you know if you feel you want to say something funny go for it and i guess i'm lucky in this because it actually humor is my coping strategy i remember when i was at university before before every single exam i was the funniest person in the room you know there's like a waiting room of all the students waiting for the exam i was making everyone laugh and that was because i was nervous about the exam
and that was the way to calm myself down i don't know where it comes from why it happens and what it's it's weird because like when i when i want to be funny it doesn't always come right but when then then when i'm really nervous or when something really matters to me i get into this state of trance or what you might call it and suddenly i start cracking jokes these are not jokes like your typical jokes but you tell a story these are more like situational jokes you know
yeah so so then when i took the iELTS exam i remember the examiner kept laughing all the time i couldn't believe it i just i don't i don't know i even hadn't slept the whole night before the exam i i swear to you i just 30 minutes maybe one hour maximum and then this happened so i don't i don't know well yeah i think that's good if that helps you to relax then yeah do that i think as long as you're using good grammar good vocabulary when you're telling these or making funny comments
then i think it's definitely not a bad thing it's you're not going to lose marks the only thing is i don't want people to think they should come in with a joke prepared like saying knock knock who's there that type of thing just if it if it comes up naturally in you know in the exam or answering a question then great if you're that type of person yeah i don't think i could do that i think and yeah you'd need to the one good thing is you'd need to have a pretty good level of any
language to be able to to make jokes and let's be honest not everyone is good at being funny and telling jokes like people people have a different level and ability exactly and so as i said like i wouldn't i wouldn't come with jokes like you could you could you could come with the joke of the iELTS examiner and a candidate and another interlocutor went to a bar and then it's not gonna work it depends how it finishes but i think it's funny but like it's not it's irrelevant kind
of it's irrelevant and inappropriate perhaps but i think the important point here is that you don't have to take it so seriously this is an exam and people are from very intense and very serious but you can be light-hearted and just enjoy this the the moment um i know it's easy to say and very difficult to do but if you can have that attitude it changes your experience completely you know how i told you i know an iELTS examiner we often have beer and we talk about this and he says to
me okay now i have let the kid out of the bag it's a he but that's as far as i am willing to go okay i can't reveal his name i think the famous famous last words be careful yeah yeah but well basically what he tells me is that it's it's often for them it's like a routine and they every time is the same right all the time and then when there's someone who's who's different who's funny who's attempting humor it's like a breath of fresh air for them then so yeah i can imagine yeah these
these examiners see dozens of sometimes they see dozens of candidates every day and you know they're asking the same questions and often getting the same answers or very similar answers so if you get the student who's more relaxed and light-hearted and and i can imagine they would appreciate it i mean they're professional and they will be evaluating what you're saying but it does demonstrate that you you're confident you have a good command of the language so yeah that yeah it's
like the idioms don't force it in for the sake of it but if it comes up naturally like a joke or a funny comment then go for it you say they're professional and all that but i would also add that they are also human beings yeah so yeah exactly if you make their life if you make their day better they are probably going to end up giving you a half a point more you know it's there they might not even be sure themselves is this person eight or seven point five and then they they
remember the joke you told them and the fact that you made them laugh you know it's a nice guy yeah exactly nice guy friendly yeah yeah give them an eight give i think it's uh yeah as you said they're human beings you know it just reminds me of a video because i was recently teaching a lesson when i was sort of playing some videos of candidates which i found which i had found on youtube and there's one video on youtube a guy taking the iELTS exam i don't know if it's if it's like
staged or anything if it's if it's real i don't think it's really it's just it's a pure comedy gold pen because there's a candidate yeah he the in the title it says it's 1.5 so his english is really poor but the funniest bit for me is when they ask him in part two of the exam about his favorite teacher and he basically says that i don't have a favorite teacher i am my teacher teachers zero he doesn't use verbs much he says teachers zero i am the best teacher
i'm like all teachers suck don't do that you're just basically insulting the the examiner because the examiner is probably an teacher as well an ex english teacher or or still an english teacher right so yeah yeah that's not a good strategy just use common sense you know yeah i think he's not doing himself any favors there maybe that's why he got 1.5 it's one of the reasons is making enemies it's such a funny video it's such a funny video it's just just typed right down um in the search
bar i'll 1.5 and you will find this guy taking it such a such a funny dude honestly all right um okay i've got about six more yeah let's let's let's do it lying about your life and your opinions isn't the worst idea uh i agree it's definitely not the worst idea i think it's absolutely fine the examiners don't they couldn't care less whether you're telling the truth or not they're just evaluating what
you're saying so it's not sorry how you're saying it i always make that mistake they're evaluating how you say it not what you say so yeah the only if if you get a question and you think i i don't know like um what's your favorite uh tell us about your favorite holiday abroad and i said well i've never been abroad i don't know what to say invent something is that when i went to africa when i was 17 i traveled or just invent something the problem with that is it's always
more difficult to lie than to tell the truth so if you do have a true anecdote or something honest to say then go with the honest option but yeah they're not evaluating your honesty they're evaluating your english level so yeah yeah that's exactly what i would say it's it's much easier to tell the truth it's much much easier to tell a personal story so what one thing you could do is if if something that hasn't happened to you has happened to one of your
close friends or or a relative that that may work because you probably know the details of the of the story uh otherwise you should really be confident about being able to yeah make things up and embellish you know your story let's say yeah otherwise i wouldn't recommend it is in my opinion ben it's even it's even fine to say i don't know if someone asks me about my favorite art art gallery or anything to do with art it's my least favorite topic i would
just be completely honest with it i would say i'm i'm afraid i'm no expert uh in this field i know nothing about art and then i would also justify it i would say why i know nothing about it and uh that's it that's what i would do you know yes i think honesty is the best policy and you're not as you said you're not expected in these exams you're not expected to be an expert in any field you're not expected to have any special knowledge so be honest yeah the important thing is to you
can't just say i don't know you have to say to be honest i'm not it's not my area of expertise but what i would say is blah blah blah say something just whatever it is say something but i do think in general honesty is the best policy but you can lie one important difference between the iELTS and the the cambridge exams my understanding is in the iELTS you have some time the students have some time to prepare their answers for part two for part two okay so it's only the second part
they have one minute to prepare and you get a cue card as well so it's like a structure it gives you a structure usually you have to describe someone or something uh that happened to you or you're describing a physical object or something like that and you can and the candidate can take notes right they can write you have one minute to prepare and then you speak for two minutes and you can use your notes uh to talk about that thing in the cambridge exams you never you get in parts
let me think in part three of this b2 first and c1 advanced you get 10 seconds or 15 seconds to read the information on the paper but you don't have time to prepare so that makes a difference if you you can't invent a story and then sort of tell the story you just have to start speaking and you have to think as you're speaking so that makes a difference to whether you tell the truth or yeah or invent something i think it's better to it's better as you said to to be honest because
it's easier to develop and to express your right express yourself but it's not compulsory you can lie the examiners don't care exactly yeah yeah because they're hard how could they possibly know no exactly yeah yeah okay um if you're not so confident it's okay to speak with a low volume uh it's okay no i i recommend you project and speak clearly the the examiners need to hear you and understand you so yeah don't mumble try to pronounce just your words clearly and
try to project so when you say it's okay i i recommend that you try to consciously speak loudly well not loudly you know loudly enough for the shout shelter the examiner yeah just just project yourself enough so that they can hear you but yeah yeah yes is that your answer yeah yeah yeah yeah maybe i worded it in in a weird way i've just realized but the point is i've i've come across some some students who just because of being really shy and introverted and
and not confident they end up being so quiet that you then that you can barely hear them and i think that's that's a problem because their english is probably much better than they are able to show because of that so if that's who you are you have to work on this it's super in my opinion it's really important yes if the examiner is not even able to hear what you're saying how can they hear that grammar that that vocabulary that that they need to hear in order to tick the boxes
and give you that score so you have to do something about this if this is you it's crucial to to work on it really i think it's um you have to think of it like as a performance you're not really being yourself you're performing so yeah i know people are shy and introverted but you just have to i kind of have to it's an act for that for those 15 minutes and when you're preparing practice by recording yourself on your phone listening back it's a horrible experience but you you'll get used
to you'll realize then that actually i do i really speak like that do i speak so quietly and do i mumble so much so then you you can make an effort exactly you will you will fall in love with your own voice in the end it's like the picture of dorian gray or something i don't know about most people hate the sounds the sound of their own voice but yeah over time yeah you get used to it yeah you get used to it you get comfortable with yourself and yes and i think that that's almost
true for everyone right even i when i started my podcast it was the same for me and now it's like i'm i don't i don't care at all yeah that's true yeah yeah so yeah but yeah you need to need to make an effort i think to make sure that the at least the the examiners can understand you and hear you clearly yeah and this can definitely be learned this is a skill like treated as a skill yeah don't just don't just some people just make excuses you know i've heard yesterday someone told
me it's about luck the exam is about luck i said no it's not about luck like that's yeah yeah okay it's like when you say life is about luck it kind of is right if something happens that like an accident or something that it's more like circumstances that you were in in my opinion but if the problem with saying that is because it will affect your own mindset and that it's you can use it as an excuse not to prepare or or just not to put in put in the hard work that's the problem
with that statement for me yeah factually it may even be correct because you don't really if they ask you about football if they ask me about football i'm more likely to get a better score that's just the way it is because i know way more vocabulary good vocabulary and all that but you know what i mean you should not you should definitely not think like that it's a bad attitude to have and as you said you're making excuses before you've even started so yeah if you do
get a question on something you have no idea about then you just have to deal with it you have to just just just relax and and answer it as you can again they don't care if if you have no idea about football and you don't you can't even name a football team or a football player it doesn't matter just answer the question it's really the questions are prompt to give you an opportunity to speak and so that the examiners can evaluate the content of what you're saying so don't worry
too much about how you answer the question or what and whether you're giving a really superficial answer or for me for me if they ask you about something you have no clue about just just have have it prepared first of all don't say i don't know instead of saying i don't know say i have no clue i haven't got a clue that's an idiom right but they start like that i don't have a clue but or say say i'm no expert at all because yeah i'm not knowledgeable in this subject like prepare a
sentence like that prepare for that contingency have some have some like structures like templates template structures that you can use and then in my opinion the best approach is just a bit of self-deprecation even like make it fun like make it fun for yourself like it's like almost like some kind of improv improvisation and they just explain why you don't know anything about it that's the way that's the way i would do it like why why why is it that i i know nothing about
arts or why is it because i've never been into it because every time someone invited me to go with them to an art gallery i i chose to to see a football match instead i chose to play football match something like that yeah yeah super simple yeah it's funny i remember in one of my classes i had a student who there are a lot of questions about technology in the cambridge exams probably in iELTS too and every time this student got a question on technology she was sorry i just
i'm not at all tech savvy i don't know about that's a nice expression absolutely by the end you know she attended lots of classes and she got so many questions she became an expert she started to get started to read articles about technology because you know she she realized she's going to need to to speak about them and speak about that topic in the exams but but you don't need to become an expert on every topic you just need to be able to answer the question
well and as you said expand i love the way you answered that your own question about art just that's what i will do anecdote you know expand as you said you can say i haven't another nice idiom is i haven't the foggiest i haven't i haven't got the foggiest but that but is so important because that signals that you are going to keep speaking you're not just going to say i don't know i haven't got the foggiest full stop no yeah i'm going to say something so the examiners
can evaluate my level that's the idea of the exam or you could also say i don't i don't give them the money i don't what is it i don't give the monkeys about this right something i don't give a monkeys i don't give them monkeys yeah i don't give a monkey i don't give them monkeys about technology since i'm not next question because i know that tech savvy but since you're asking me this then i might as well try try to answer
i mean there's so many ways you can approach this just just treat it as a as a challenge and be prepared for that contingency it's always going to happen right it not always but it there's a there's a good likelihood that it may happen so be prepared to to say something like that have a strategy have a strategy yeah i agree more what's like an escape route or something all right um to score high in pronunciation it's it's good to have a native like accent
no i would say well again the way you've worked it's good native like i don't think that's necessary i mean that we have to understand the difference between pronunciation and accent you are expected to be able to pronounce the words clearly you know using the right intonation right word stress pronouncing individual sounds as they should be pronounced but this word as they or this you know i say as they should be pronounced who is to say how they should be pronounced there
are many different accents native english accents and many different non-native english accents and they're all valid it doesn't matter your accent in the cambridge exams i'm sure it's the same in iELTS it's fine it's about pronunciation you need to be able to pronounce clearly so i wouldn't compare yourself to a native english speaker because first of all which one there are millions and you know do you want to speak with a london accent a newcastle accent a scottish accent
a californian accent a brisbane accent so i don't think you should think like that i don't think you should think about whether you're pronouncing as a native word but you need to pronounce correctly i mean when accent and pronunciation overlaps and it can be a problem for example the pronunciation of the h italian and french speakers have a big problem with this that they often don't pronounce the h so let's say yeah and cockneys that's true exactly native many
native english accents hello mate all right um i can't think of an example how you how have you been how you been how have you been so how you been so that's the big question i mean you shouldn't do that in the exam whether you're a cockney or not because that could be confusing you should pronounce like you say i stayed in a really nice hotel it should be hotel or i'm very happy um or my my health is not so good should be i'm very happy my health is not so good i thought
you were talking about elves now like exactly well that's it can get confusing it could get confusing couldn't it so you have to it's it's a very sensitive and controversial question because you know in real life i don't think it's a big problem i love all accents i love the italian accent the french accent i love all accents and in general you can understand them but it's sometimes it is a problem it can be confusing so in an exam situation you should pronounce individual
sounds correctly whatever that means yeah just you have to sound intelligible and that's that's the key word for me yeah that's something you should be able to discern decode your your message right and exactly i should follow some sort of you say like it's hard to say what the standard is but it should sound like english basically and the other thing another point i would make is that basically you say that we shouldn't really think about that but then all all learners are obsessed
with sounding like a native that's the issue that that's why all this marketing is a thing sound like a native yes but it's it's we we both know it's it's wrong if we are english teachers we are on the other it's it's the wrong perspective it's it's it's not a good way of looking at it because i i've lived in spain for 21 years i speak spanish relatively fluently but i have an english accent i don't think i will ever lose that english that accent and years ago i worried about it and it would
i would probably feel embarrassed not embarrassed but you know i would worry more about my accent now i i don't care i you know over time you learn or you just naturally lose some aspects of the your pronunciation of the use of that accent but if you force it and you try to imitate a native speaker it's good for practice the shadowing technique and all that but this obsession with trying to be or sound native it's not healthy i don't think it's not a good
a good way to look at it you're putting too much pressure on yourself as well and it's just yeah and often it's like something unrealistic like the goal of sounding like a native is just most of normal human beings just don't ever achieve that and that includes that that includes me you would most native speakers with 99 of native speakers from the uk would know that i don't come from the uk they would just know right although i do get from some people like i i sound like a native
and some people think that i i'm from a native english-speaking countries it has happened to me but is that even a point it's not it's not no i mean you you there's something i mean there's nothing wrong you obviously you speak very very well you have a very good level of english in general but thank you there's something that tells me that you're not a native speaker but that's not because you're making any kind of mistakes with your pronunciation it's just something but the
same way that i can tell that somebody from newcastle is not from london it's just a different a different way that they speak it's not a problem at all it's nice as i said i love accents but it's um it's something you shouldn't obsess about and shouldn't it should happen naturally and don't force it because when you hear people trying to sound like i was going to say the queen of england because the king of england i guess it sounds a little bit silly because
you're not going to get it right and nobody speaks like the king of england except the king of england anyway so just just let it happen naturally it's about being careful with individual sounds but not not necessarily trying to sound like a native it's exactly unrealistic okay ben we are recording this on zoom and we have about two minutes left so i'm gonna i'm gonna do one more but i'm i will ask you to be to be concise concise so my next one is you should
keep your answers succinct and to the point see what i did there very nice perfect final question yes yes you should in general that's the short answer that's the succinct succinct answer because you don't have much time and it's answer the question and expand a little but not you can't you know you can't tell your life story just to answer the question expand a little and that's what you just did you've proven your own point and that's what i would i would expect
i would expect if i'm honest i would expect nothing less from ben from to the point english yeah to the point english channel exactly i have to remind myself to be to the point sometimes that's why i gave gave my channel that title because it helps me to to keep it in mind yeah no i think it's quite a quite an interesting name like a catchy catchy name but also slightly unusual as well in some in some way so i think it's interesting yeah well all right ben the english with sorry
go on yeah no no go on yeah i was just i was gonna say the english with ben part is very important because if you google english with ben my channel comes up because you get english with lucy english with so many different people so english with to the point is kind of extra but english with ben is this way people find me usually that's right well thank you very much ben for talking to me about the cambridge exams and going through these statements and well i hope to speak to you
soon again yeah thank you for having me it was a pleasure said denik no worries man take care thank you too take care bye bye thanks a lot for listening for more information visit my new website teachersdenik.com where you can find out about my speaking group for high-level english learners called the achievers chamber and download my free course unlocking your english potential eight secrets to fluency that's teachersdenik.com