And I don't believe in the, empty marketing terms because it's cost a lot of money for organization. You cannot bullshit market. You have to be absolutely naked coming up. And this is one of the reasons why we started this show because I wanna be absolutely honest to the crowd. What's going on in the industry, and what where are we heading with that. Right? Hey. Welcome everyone to the first ever Zap
Talk. I'm Joe Calantonio, and joining me is the one and only man behind Zap Test and the show Zap Talk, Alex Zap. Hey, Alex. Welcome. Hey. Thanks, Joe. Thanks for having us. Awesome. Thank you for putting this show together. And, also, our first guest ever, we have Darren Davis joining us. Welcome, Darren. Hey, guys. How's it going? Good to be here. Great to have you. Alright, guys. I thought we'd just dive right in. 1st off,
Darren, maybe you are the special guest here. Maybe introduce yourself to the crowd. Sure. Darren Davis. I've probably been in the testing field for about 3 decades. I know I'm dating myself, but I've seen everything pretty much from, you know, batch scripting as far as automation goes all the way through, you know, selenium and now, including some AI stuff. So that's sort of my background.
I've I've worked for companies such as Equifax, Digital Communications Associates, and, as well as a couple of other consulting firms, and that sort of that's my summary. Awesome. And, Alex, what I love about this lineup is I think we're all, like, old Mercury folks, so I think we've been in the field for a while. So I love how we're coming together again for sure. Yep. We're veterans of the industry for sure. That's for sure. Absolutely. I have the stripes to prove it.
Yeah. And the gray hair as you can see. Right? Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Yep. Very cool. Yeah. So, Darren, bro, I've been at, what, over 20 years as we know each other. I mean, as you said, with 30 years in the industry, gosh. I mean, I remember days when I started, and I wanted to do something somewhere and look where it's got us to. Right? We can tell stories we can tell stories to others now. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. There there's plenty of those for
sure. Yep. So, Alex, I know how you all met. That that's a good good intro, I guess, to, like, maybe how you all got introduced to one another, maybe what you were working on and, but Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, Joe. This is a epic story as a matter of fact. I mean, it's all started in 2,005, a year before Mercury exited to HP, software. And what happened back then, Mercury was putting themselves for higher evaluation. They needed to prove more of
the market share and success story. So, InterContinental Hotel Group, which is headquarter in Atlanta, Georgia, where I used to be based out of, had an issue. So they tried to use Windrunner, which was a a kind of breadwinner, if you remember. That was the mighty animation tool of those days. But based on the technological constraints, and the process orientation, they weren't successful enough to do so. And, Mercury, sent me to change the approach. And,
they just came out with quick test pro. It was a new generation test animation technology that's been based more on the component based architecture with the other aspects of it. And at that time, Mercury and I was working with the design team of the automation tools, in the Mercury. They came up with the new concept of differentiating roles in the process before, when the winter under winter runner days, you remember, there was a counter that one guy should do everything. Should analyze
that counting, by the way. I was a Right. Winner and a guy. I loved it. I was able to do it all. But, anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt, but I get jazzed up Right. But win winner. Exactly. Exactly. Excited there. Yep. Right. Exactly. So I was one of the first in the industry evangelist of Quick Test Pro. I even wrote the white paper, Quick Test for Windrunner developers,
which was a bestseller at that time. And, I will I was I volunteer basically to design the process based on the quick test pro and the new concept of differentiating roles in the team to optimize the automation. And, Janet was sponsoring that, and the trace and j were the team that we were implementing it all. And, we were able to make it success story. So AIG at that time of the implementation of quick test pro and the process that, were on,
show the significant increase in the productivity. Yeah. Let me let me yeah. Let let me interrupt. So a little bit of backstory for what that project actually was. Sure. So, basically, what we were doing there at at IHG, I'll call it IHG, it was intercontinental. You know, it was 6 continents hotels. It it went under
a lot of different name changes, right, right, during that time. But, you know, what we were doing was actually building an ecommerce platform, a distributed, right, platform, for basically selling hotel rooms, to actually get them a web presence. Before that, they did not have any
web presence at all. And as a matter of fact, you know, our our, you know, chief marketing officer or the marketing officer at the time actually went out and collected a small team of technologists to actually make this a reality. Right? So that was basically their first web presence, as far as, you know, hotel bookings or or reservations go. So just give a little backstory there. Like, we were using, you know, obviously, heavily web, but we're also using, you know, ATG
Dynamo servers. If you guys remember those app servers, you know, from way back in the day, they don't exist anymore. But, anyway, it was great. It scaled immensely. I just remember I remember going from, you know, $100,000 days to $500,000 days to $1,000,000 days to $10,000,000 day. It was crazy. And it was it was actually a great story. Right? So after all that, though, we're like, okay. All the testing was actually being done manually.
Like, I literally sat there, I put in all of the, all of the requirements because there was 27 volumes of documents that I had to go through to fish out all the requirements. I plugged them all into, you know, into Quality Center. I think that's what it was called then. Yeah. Quality Center. Quality Center. That's director in Quality Center. Yeah. That's right. So like I said, it was all manual. There was no test team. I was the only person actually doing anything as far as setup, you
know, for for the testing goes. And then, eventually, you know, we did build a a small team. There's probably 8 to 10 of us to actually do the execution, right, of it as well. But, again, all manual. All manual at a time. And then in comes, right, Alex and team. We tried to do some automation initially. It was very painful using initial versions of QTP, but, anyway, you could take it from there, Alex. Alright. So, Alex, before you jump in, I
wanna just understand. So you're doing it manually, and you were and it was working, and you were making money. And this, folks, I don't know, this was innovative back in the day to to to Oh, yeah. They did people take things for granted, but this was, like, probably one of the first online booking sites ever. So it was working as you were manually testing it. So what made you need to go to automation then? Well, we needed to
release the software faster is what we need to do. So we had fixes and things that we needed to put in, and, unfortunately, the regression testing aspect was taking longer and longer and longer, right, the the more we got into it. Because, also, if you remember, it wasn't just bookings at the time. It was also handling the priority club, loyalty program too. So all of those things we knew, you know, had had to be automated, because
it was very repetitive. So we were actually going through these things every release, and I was like, this is ridiculous. We gotta we gotta make this faster somehow and and more accurate. So Nice. Sorry, Alex. Back to you. Yeah. I mean, so we we did it. So we proved the concept that if you differentiate roles and you apply the component based architecture, which has a reusable reusable components rather than linear, then,
it's gonna show the productivity. So you just change the approach a little bit of and it it's all ends down, goes down to the process. So if you have a right process in place, everything will come along. So I'm in the industry, I'm a process guy for me before we get into the tool, even though I'm a tooler today, but I'm designing tool for for sake of the process. I have so many place and the tools that you can apply like an American football. Right? So you can always win. You can always do
touchdown no matter what you aim for. So, Alex, did I hear correctly then you're one of the reasons that they killed Windrunner and you went to QTP and reusable opponents because I hate it. I have to be honest. I hate it. I hate that approach, to be honest with you. I know. It was a revolution in the industry. We had a lot of resistance. I was one of the first evangelists that flew to Israel, and I was one of the first certified QTP professionals in the
industry at all. I especially flew to Israel to test drive certification on myself, and I volunteered for that even though it wasn't my initiative. But I remember that trip, which was very interesting. Yeah. But Well well, the the the complexity with 1 runner too, right, as well, because we had that we had that installed there, you know, at some point as well, was it was all, like, some proprietary scripting language that you're doing it in. And so with
whenever QTP yeah. Whenever yeah. TSL or TSL or whatever it was. Do that? Yeah. But whenever but, actually, whenever QTP came along, right, it was using it was basically founded mostly in I think it was VB script or something like that, if I'm if I'm right on it. Yeah. That's And it's a long time ago. Have it on Zaptev. Yeah. For those that would like to. I mean but but my point is, you know, with QTP came all came along the also the advantage of being able to do recording and
playbacking and stuff like that. Because, remember, our team at the time were all manual testers. There wasn't really a big push to have, like, automation at the time. So, literally, I had to hire, like, you know, computer science people, people who knew how to code in order to, like, even begin to use, like, Tizzle. So at least with the recording and playback, you you had a little bit of a, you know, jump start, as far as creating some, you know, reusable scripts, I guess you could say.
But, anyway, that was painful too. But, anyway, go ahead, Alex. So how did how did Alex get involved then, Darren? Because it sound like you're having a lot of issues. You're trying to use Winrunner. You had a manual team. The dynamics of of testers, the skills were more on the manual side rather than automation side, and then you reached out to Alex? Or how did that connection happen? Well, what happened is, the project that we worked on, it was a slightly different group, which
Darren was a point to. But after we proved the success, IG asked Mercury, and I was a kind of account expert for appointed by Mercury PSO because, I've been running Zappo. We were sort of their SWAT team for the latest and greatest. And, they appointed me to be account expert for IG to continue the implementation of Quicktest Pro and Quality Center and other groups. And I trained the group of managers within AIG, and Darren was was was one of them within the
training group. And then Darren and I, we follow-up the relationship towards other initiative that Darren's team needed. And, we've been helping Darren for what? About 6 years. Right? Mhmm. That's right. Yeah. Back then, we had a mixed team between the US based and Israeli based team. Back then, we had a a team based out of Israel. Like, we had a mix, and we had a team that's been assisting that. So, Darren, what what did what did he do then that helped you train
your team around? What did Alex introduce other than the QTP? Was it a process, an approach, was it a strategy that your team was able to get behind? And then it There there it I think it was all of it. Right? I mean, because as he points out, right, without sort of a base strategy on what our goals and objectives are gonna be, it's sort of difficult for somebody to show up with the tool and say, okay. Let's let's go automate some stuff.
So, yeah, you know, he brought a bunch of those sort of disciplines, you know, with him. Again, you know, this was really our force for a in actually doing any kind of meaningful automation, right, for us. So, it it was important, right, to have a good plan, like, in place. Because if you don't have a plan, you know, you're just gonna be, you know, throwing some code at the wall, and that's how it's gonna and that's how it's gonna turn out.
So, you know right. In order for us to get the kind of coverage and things that we needed, yep, we just followed the plan, executed against it. Alex, how'd you come up with the plan? Well, again, being a a ex military guy, I I've been well trained in the term that you need to execute. No. It's not about working out. Yeah. But it's part it's part of the package. I like my guys in uniforms. Yeah. But, you, go in after the end end goal. So first, you need to understand
where you wanna end up. Right? And then you start building backwards from that point. Now the fundamentals are very simple. You have to look at, environment that you automate. You have to look at the personnel that you work with. You have to look at the tools that you employ implementing during that that will be qualified for the personnel that you use. And, most importantly, you have to adjust for delivery schedule because the testers always accompany developers. Makes
sense? And, testers is like a kicker in the football team. Nobody, remember them until the crucial point where the one point wins the game. Right? And this is where we're praying that they go happen. So this is how we operate. And, if you, align all this perspective and be absolutely laser focused on that, you put together the game, and you definitely gonna deliver and, get to the success point. So, Darren, you you went on to do work for all the large enterprises with automation as well.
So what was your journey then from there to where where you ended up? Did you take, key lessons learned from Alex or what you did on your team and then applied it to your other teams as you move forward in your career? I did. I absolutely did. You know, of of course, I was at I was at ISG for quite a while. It was around 13
years or so. But, you know so there was plenty of opportunity there to do, you know, even more with automation, especially when you consider the, when you consider the transformation that they underwent too to get off of the mainframe. Right? So all of the all of those hotels and reservations and everything were actually contained in a IBM mainframe for all practical purposes. So imagine having to then pull apart your mainframe that handles all
of your reservations, your pricing, etcetera, inventory. Right? And, and actually, you know, building a strategy or a plan around how you're gonna do those tests. And, so yeah. I mean, you know, it was basically it was basically carrying a lot of those things forward, you know, and it and it even we even more forward, you know, even, like, you know, to to, you know, to Equifax as an example, you know, where we actually I mean, obviously, we weren't using QTP or any other tools.
Right? We use a bunch of open source tools, but still the philosophy is still the same. You know? Alright. So, obviously, Darren, I'm just curious to know, like, you you you were in a certain situation in your company. I always wanna know, Alex, like, as a someone that comes into an environment as a consultant, like, how do they how do they figure out how something could be automated or should it be automated? So we're gonna have a have a game. I guess I'm gonna call it Zap Alex
Zaps, see if you could zap them or the animation rundown game. We're not sure yet. So, Darren, I want you to, like, picture a scenario or an environment of, like, key parameters of an automation environment that you think would be challenging? And let's see if we could kind of stop Alex or see how Alex would would handle this particular challenge. Let's say it is a a reservation application. Alright. Right? Okay. Yes. And, there are probably 50 or so requirements you
need to cover. You do not have adequate automation skills for for the team. But you have 8 you have 8 people. You have 2 manual no. You have 8 you have 8 manual testers, basically. A couple of them are application experts. You have to get this done, right, within within probably a week. So but what happens here is that is that teams say, no. It's going to take us at least 2. Okay. So, again, we don't have the right
skills. We don't have enough time. But this is a very critical application, right, that we need to to get out the door. Okay. So few questions. The delivery schedule, is it agile or you have already automation I mean, application ready for automation? Is it a still prototype mock ups or will work with, live application? It's actually prototype. So we basically loop working with the mock ups. Right? Pretty much. Yep. That's right. So okay. Easy peasy.
So what we do, I felt, I'm gonna be speaking on behalf of Zappdex. Right? Because I that's I'm a tooler. I'm coming to the game with my tool. Right? That's right. So and I designed the tool to complement the process. And, your case is similar to many other cases that we interview executives and talking about how to make it faster. So first of all, let's talk about the, automation where we start. We're gonna start at the design phase
where you have what we call 3 Amigo meeting. Right? Remember, cowboy coding? So you have a product owner, you have a developer manager, and you have a QA manager. Let's say all the lead developer, let lead test it. Right? So we're gonna be sorting about requirement. We got a solid solid and their signed requirement pro by project owner.
This is what we can start working with. We also will need the digit I mean, the hand drawing at least of the user interface of the input output fields and what gonna trigger the, again, the move from one step to another. Right? All the triggers. So, say it can be just a hand drawn fantasized on the whiteboard and taking picture of the phone. Right? So we got this artifact. I got used cases. I know what to where to start automation.
I got a graphical representation of how the field's gonna look like. They may be preliminary. All I need at this point is just a collection of input and output field with the buttons that gonna trigger the data processing through the system. Right? So, then I'm gonna understand who I'm working with. We're gonna have any of the automation specialist, at least one out of these 8 people. Or they all completely manual testers
have no idea about animation. One has a little bit one has a little bit of familiarity with with actually doing some form of automation, but he's no expert. But, will he or should be able to read the code and, debug it? Yes. Alright? Perfect. So this is what, what we've got. Well, the and you have, documentation. We're gonna deploy documentation at Zepdesk. We have what we call Plant Studio. So Plant Studio, it's AI based analyzer
that can take a whole solid of documentation. In our case, it's gonna be easy one formatted use cases somewhere And gonna return to me the whole collection of analyze based on the different animation criteria's data and compose it based on the automatable modules of the priorities and automation probabilities. Right? So, subject matter expert for each of their area gonna review their portion of test cases and, agree with the accuracy. Right? So they're gonna sign off, that's yes.
I agree with this, outline. Then they're gonna click button, generate code in the copilot. So we have a Zep test copilot like many other copilots. Right? That's gonna automatically generate textual representation of, analyzed modules into the JavaScript source code. Even though I mentioned video script, but we do have a JavaScript more modern than that. Right. So now you have a collection of all automated scripts with the all, business rules based on the, modularity, event
driving, data driving, and the rich logic. Right? It's all built in in our copilot. So that person that understands scripting and coding will need to review the code, debug the scripts, make sense, And make sure that the sanity oriented because at that point, you will need to calibrate object recognition and this and that. So there's, there should be some minor manual adjustment that you need to do. Not a lot. And pass it back to the manual testers for execution.
Now if it's a booking portal, I assume that it's required to be tested on multiple platforms at once. Because your user base probably gonna test it at least 4 or 5 browsers. You need to have a different, operating system like Mac, Windows, mobile. Right? Yep. So we have a MRAM studio,
which allows you to position all these environments at once. And the manual tester, one of them, or some of them depends how you wanna arrange it for regression testing, will be able to execute it once the build will be handed to them. Makes sense? So your automation engineer, the back that based on the mock ups. Because we assume that screen gonna look alike. Even if the object gonna move around, we'll have smart identification mechanism that will handle it and adjust it. Makes sense?
So and everything else will be ready to execute. Once the developers release the build, you have the script plugged into the MRAM and multi run that runs the one script across all platforms parallel at once. So it's give you much faster to market results. Makes sense? So this is how I would approach the situation. How'd you feel when you mentioned AI? A lot of vendors probably come in, they pitch AI. You know, you've been doing
this for a while. Like, what would your thoughts be like? This is BS. So, like, how would you approach it? Oh, yeah. I mean, I, you know, I I don't believe it anymore. But, you know, there were times there were times, you know, years back where people would approach us and say, hey. Look. We have a great automation tool, a test automation
tool. It uses AI, this, that, whatever. And, frankly, whenever you look under the covers of what they're actually doing, it's like, oh, just because this button moved from here to there, we can auto heal. Right? And that's all they were doing. I mean, that's really great and everything, but that doesn't solve the majority of
problems throughout the anybody would have. You know, usually, the majority of problems comes in, you know, the analysis, basically, of of requirements, the creating of the actual sort of code itself, and then, obviously, some of the execution and, obviously, self healing, like, pieces of it. So unless unless there's something that does all of those things sort of together, I think they're just using the term AI to use AI just because it's a great marketing term.
Yep. And it's true. Right? I mean, because, like I said, I've I've seen now not not super recently, but that's exactly what I've seen in the past, and it's and it infuriates me that people are like, yes. We do AI. We use AI. AI, AI, ML, you know, all this other stuff just because it's the industry buzzwords. And yet when you ask them, okay, sir. How are you using it? Well, we just do this simple little thing here, you know, basically, or or something that
I would consider pretty elementary. But, so, anyway, that's my initial thought whenever somebody says AI and automation. Maybe Alex has a different take on that. I'm sure he does. Absolutely agree with you because I have to wear my marketing hat all the time. Right? So I'm a jack of all trades. So definitely buzzwords are very handy for us. So that drives the attention. But It's like But AI, ML. Exactly. So listen. You know better that I grew up in the blue chip corporate
environment as a professional. Yeah. And I don't believe in the, empty marketing terms because it's cost a lot of money for organization. You cannot bullshit market. You have to be absolutely naked coming out. And this is one of the reasons why we started this show because I wanna be absolutely honest to the crowd, what's going on in the industry, and what where we heading with that. Right? So
and absolutely agree with you. The only thing the different what we do at Zap versus, rest of the industry probably, We given you opt out option. So we're so honest to what we're going to deliver that we're willing to work for 6 months at no pay. Taking the chance that we're gonna work for you for 6 months and giving you option to walk away without paying us if you don't like what we do. This is, I'm standing to my promise. Otherwise, I will not sustain the revenue of the company.
I won't be able to drive successful business. Right? If I won't be common through to my customer. Let me know better. I mean, we you know me for many years. And, besides you, you know that I have customers which are very serious organizations in the world pretty much that trust me with their business for 20 years. But nevertheless, I agree with you statement that it's a lot of buzzwords around. And this is one of the reasons why we came up with this program for opting out for half a year.
Because we believe that this is gonna take you that long to make a absolute strategic bulletproof decision to keep zap in the house for another 20 years. So but I absolutely agree. My AI is different than AI. It's still AI. It's better than My AI better than their AI. That's what it is. So let's maybe talk a little bit about that. Like, how is your AI better? Why well, you know, people might be hearing this. They're like, oh, this this is just an a QTP, tool. I can use, Selenium.
I can use chat gpt to help me with some of these things. What would you say to that then? What does Zap test features have that would help Darren with the AI and, that those type of Right. Feedback or pushback you get? Absolutely. Very very good question, Joe, and I appreciate the the question. So first of all,
AI may be of anything. Right? In the early days, we've been in the technological glitch for a good 10 years as a vendors because everybody were grappling over the object recognition, attracting the animators. Right? So my object recognition better than your object recognition, myself feeling better than yourself feeling, and this and that. But at the end, it was beating around the concept of the DOM based object recognition. And this is what we change with Zap. We
changed the paradigm. I said instead of walking stairs, let's design the Spider Man that can fly across the buildings. Right? And that's why we came up with the computer vision idea and all the extended the OCR and what's not. But in terms of AI, we're moving into era of craft and GPTs. So all the vendors gonna move into the GPT business. When the open AI came out, I was one of the first in the industry to jump on it right away. And I told my developers, I
said, there's no, we're moving into different era. Everything gonna escalate and elevate from operating system level to the, AI level. So meaning that right now, game, it's about how better we gonna adjust our platforms, AI platforms to feed all the information, all the knowledge that we have as a, implement implementers of automation because we were advanced, service man,
if you remember that Darren, this is how we met. So we will be we carried this title of SWAT team that's been doing the latest and greatest, and we did a lot of very advanced projects in our career. So we fed all that into our copilot, into our planning module, in our assistant. And, our goal right now to through the AI, not just to recognize that, it's easy. But our goal as that to enable automation leaders, whatever the title that may be, it's maybe a manager or CIO or VP of
Technology. Anyone that needs to deliver automation result faster with whatever it takes. Makes sense? So our AI infused laser focused on what needs to be done on particular phase in the process, either it's a planning or it's a scripting or it's analysis. Right? And we continue infusing AI and other studios. We got a load studio. We got API studio, which allows
you to do API animation. You can combine it all together. We have a web driver built in that's, help people to segue from selenium frameworks to the AI infused computer vision animation. So that makes it different. But again, as Darren said, it's, you have to see it to believe it. Right? And this is why we're doing our 6 months program to come through to the market. Awesome. And,
Nox, I I think that leads to, like, maybe the future of automation, Darren. If you start a new job then, do you think it's essential that someone uses a tool that does have these AI features or does it like, how do you know what tool to bring to a new a new situation or a new a new gig that you might might, might join? Well, again, right, you you have to you have to determine, like, what you
have, right, initially. Right? That's the first thing you have to do. And, you know, a lot of companies do just well, I shouldn't say a lot. Some companies do just have, you know, Selenium frameworks, you know, test n g, etcetera. That's that's that's the bulk that I've seen or heard. And it's really they got away from purchasing, you know, shrink-wrap software, basically, because it was extremely
expensive. So I think I think if the AI is implemented in the tool in such a way that relieves the testers, you know, effort by probably half or or more, then that's really that that's really worth it. Right? It's really worth it. And, you know, according to what, you know, Alex was just saying as far as, you know, as far as how they utilize AI and, again, I'd have to see it to believe it, but but I I trust, you know, I trust Alex.
So, you know, if it's if it's capable of doing those types of things, as an example, analyzing requirements, actually creating code for you to actually do the testing as well. I think just that by itself is is a huge win. That's what I think. So Yeah. So, again, I think, you know, I I think one of the other things, you know, is, you know, your AI has to be, secure, right, as well. So you can't just go to a chat gbt and use it,
like, over the Internet. Right? Because some companies, that simply won't fly. Like, as an example for, you know, for Equifax as an example, that's not gonna fly. You know? So unless it's very, unless it's sort of on prem or built in, you know, that's that would be a tough sell, right, for for companies like that or probably anybody in in Fintech or or banking or whatever. So, that's just my recent score. Maybe 5. I agree with you, Darren. So but the the point is we use Azure APIs.
So, makes sense. So Mhmm. Microsoft back in it. So we trust into Microsoft. It sounds, very strong. Right? And Microsoft, we trust. Right. But nevertheless, I grateful to them for taking the leadership and, put in their commercial backing for that. Because absolutely agree with you. It may yet be very iffy in our regulatory, environment. It it's, becomes a constraint. But we cannot sustain, we cannot hold back technology because we're in
a competitive climate, especially here in the states. Right? So we've got other guys challenging us with AI and the productivity and optimization. It's not about replacing people. It's about equipping people that you have with the tool that allow them to leapfrog the processes. Enabling them to be more efficient. Exactly. The new
normal, it's already there. If you can pull up your GPT on the phone and get any answer at any time on the way you want, you expect the same thing from the tool that you use for, day to day work to win your paycheck. Makes sense? Yep. And, all the investors and the backers are challenging their, executives to deliver more with less. And you can achieve it only if you have smart tools in the right process. Makes sense? Yep. Yeah. So beside that, Darren, you you my brother
and you trusted me once and I made you successful. So my statement to you, despite the fact that we have a 6 months opt out program for you personally, for for sake of the history of our partnership, we're gonna commit to 1 year no cost for you. Whatever the team gonna, you're gonna join, you come with the zap test solution. We're gonna do 1 year proof of concept backing you with all this solution to make you successful where you're gonna go.
That's excellent. That'd be cool. I'll definitely look you up. And we'll have a link to Zap test as well down below and more resources for you to check out to do the the challenge yourself. Alex, I believe you said you had a 6 month, try it or, to believe it for yourself before you pay. How how does that work? Right. So what happened is we're signing the contract. Of course, we can do the demos and what's not to do all the, introduction because it's a concept of fairly new and, it's a lot to,
digest. And usually, it goes with the meeting with the developers, evaluating the process, making the technical wins. Then we talk to the managers to talk about the concept of all the solution. And, then we, sign in the, moving into the contract. And, once we're under the contract, for the first it's a usual annual contract. For the 1st 6 months, company has option to, disengage. They can send us cancellation notice saying, guys, sorry. It didn't work out for us, and they don't
pay us anything. So we've taken this chance upon us, and we're gonna appoint also a full time expert to drive this process because beside the unlimited licenses we offer and, complimentary expert that's, assist Like a, like a customer like a customer success champion or something. Right? It's a hybrid model. This guy, does automation for you and with you, act as the first tier support for everybody in the company because you got right away unlimited licenses. So all
departments can start using it for various aspects. Right? And instead of supporting, support, setting up the tickets for support, they know that John is there to help them. Right. So person becomes the resident expert, if you will. And beside that, we've taken all this upon us. And if you don't like, if it doesn't work for for whatever reason, you can walk away. But we're so
confident that we can make it work for you. Between the 25 years experience in the field, being the pioneers of the industry and the technology that we have with, superior engineers and algorithms that we, enrich for all this time. Right? We guarantee that we're gonna deliver. Makes sense? Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a pretty bold, that's pretty bold statement. Exactly, Darren. This is only and they're
going further in the era of deep fakes and AIs. This is the only how I envision winning my customers. Yeah. Because bureaucracy in the corporate America became unbearable. And, for any manager to onboard a vendor in there for POC, they have to crawl through the barbed wire of the procurement sourcing, security vetting, and you know better what I'm talking about. Nobody talks about it. I know. Nobody talks about it. I will tell you right now, where I've been, it
takes at least 6 months. At least 6 months just to get somebody in the door, you know, in order to do, you know, anything with them. So yeah. I literally just lived that probably a year ago. Exactly. This is why I'm giving you the 6 months. Yeah. I'm saying we can sign whatever the paperwork we can do and start implementation and see how it all goes. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. So, Darren, again, when you're ready, we're right behind. You'll be there. Right? I got you.
We'll be there. It's good to have somebody in the trenches with you. That's for sure. Yeah. Absolutely, brother. And, you know what? I always value the, my fellow, automation leaders because you have to put your career next to my brand. And, that's even more than just being automation engineer using someone's tool. Yeah. Because for you to get to this point, you have to invest years of the career and the success stories of
other projects. And for you to bring strategic technology like automation solutions similar to Zap test, you have to put your career online. And, it's up to me to go above and beyond to back you up and give you all the, necessary, things to keep the success on and keep it proven because we always keep proving ourselves. That's right. Makes sense? It's a partnership. It's a partnership. Excellent. This is why, wanted you to be my first guest at Zep Talk. To tell the story of lifetime partnership
that this goes nowhere. And I I pledge here that I'm gonna stand by you for going forward for all you endeavors. Thanks, brother. Much appreciated. I know you will. Absolutely. And thank you again, Darren, for joining us for the first episode of Zap Talk. And thank you again, Alex, for joining us and putting the show together. It's gonna be a monthly show, and you definitely wanna stay tuned and check out all the links we have of value down below. Be happy and let's up.