Solar Industry Insights: A Veteran's Perspective on Evolution, Challenges, and Quality Standards - EP12

Kind of happened a little bit accidentally , like I just I was just working for someone I think I might have been putting power points in for water tanks or something like that and they sort of wanted they knew someone who was looking for electricians to get into solar and I thought I really liked the idea .

I didn't , you know , back then no one knew anything about it . So all I knew is , yes , solar panels produce power . That's sort of all I knew . So I went and got my CEC accreditation and it just kind of grew from there , from my course . So I did my course yeah , I think it was September 2009 , something like that .

And at the end of the course , the teacher sort of said , well , if there's anyone looking to do some jobs and get into it straight away , you know , let me know at the end of the , at the end of the course , and you know , we can get some jobs for you if you want . And I put my hand up and said , yeah , I'm ready to go .

I want to get straight into it . So I did and , yeah , that was sort of from there , never really looked back , started doing those Started . Actually , funnily enough , the first systems I did was Sunpower . Did you do them for your own company or you were subcontracting ? No , I was subcontracting , yeah , subcontracting . There's a lot of regional work at that time .

I look back at sort of some of the stuff we did back then and , oh , it's , it's come . We've come a long way with the standards and guidelines and all those sort of things .

That's right , but you tell me what was the quality of that kind of gear ?

. It was probably a little bit before that , but you could tell everything was the screws were starting to be tightened a fair bit . Install rates as well . That was probably a big one , install rates . So we were doing one kilowatt systems for $1,200 , $1,300 , something like that and you could really you could smash them out pretty quick .

Especially the installation standards were not what they are today , so you could get it done pretty fast and we'd go through that . And then all of a sudden , install rates got tightened up .

I think a lot of these sales companies we worked for saw that we were making pretty good money and decided to really turn the screws and they wanted to drop their prices , sell more and yeah , it just got a lot harder for installers .

So that's been . It's been difficult , but yeah , that's just what you got to do , I suppose . Okay . So you've worked at least for three companies that are not around anymore the Mark Group Mark Group yep , true Value , yep , necro , I think Neco , neco , neco , solar , yeah , yeah , okay , they were ahead of that time , neco , they really were .

I was doing some work for Neco , some subcontract work , and I really enjoyed the work I was doing for them . There seemed to be more quality gear , they'd treat us better , everything was organized , so they were quite positive .

There's a big net in the center to hold all the insulation because it was stacked up one on top of the other to the roof . But then you know what happened they ended up pulling the program . It was thousands and thousands and thousands of bags and no one wanted it because Now you had to pay proper price again .

So there's a lot of sales people , there's schedulers and people in the warehouse , but the amount of skilled trades people in the office , yeah , a lot of the time it was just me , sometimes it was someone else as well , so we would just get bombarded by questions . Our phones would just be ringing constantly .

My phone would ring and they'd be like oh Pat , what's going on this place ? I've got 26 panels loaded onto my trailer and I've been up on the roof . I can only fit eight . What's going on ? I'm like it's eight , yeah , eight , this used to happen eight . And I'm like are you sure You're at the right house ? What's going on ?

And you find out the sales person has sold them 26 panels . So there's a lot of installs , a lot of sales been done , side unseen , right . That happens today . Still , you know , still happens . That was pretty much the normal back then . You go onto the sales floor and sometimes it was like the Wolf of Wall Street .

You know , they're all really happy with each other and they're ringing bells and all this , yeah , all that sort of stuff . It was playing their music and all high-fiving each other and the people in the operations are just absolutely ripping their hair out going what is going on here ?

Like we're just left with all this stuff and you would think that if you keep continually doing that , there'd be some sort of penalty because you're costing the company money . But you sort of speak to some of the senior managers about it and they'd be like , yeah , yeah , we'll speak to them , we'll speak to them .

And they never did because their thinking was , well , these are salespeople and if we don't want to ruin their confidence because then they can't sell , so it's just this , it's , you're just having this circular conversation .

They were happy to sell rubbish and things that weren't going to fit on roofs and , yeah , like I say , the operations people were there to pick up the pieces . So a lot of the time that was really really frustrating job and I learned a lot . I learned a lot in that role and probably , you know , got a few extra layers of skin I would have thought .

So , yeah , they would just come back and they don't have work for the day . Warehouse has got to repack all the stuff , allocate it for the next day . What about the customer ? Yeah , good question . A lot of the time they would get a refund . They would try and negotiate with them and try and resell them a smaller system . That would happen sometimes .

So try and change the contract on the day . There was no real sort of protocol , it was sort of let's work out , let's work each one out one by one . It was a big chunk of our day .

So , and then once they decided to bring those , that crew back , yeah , as soon as I suppose they got the chance , they gave me the old heave-ho . So where are you ?

back a little bit . Then let's go back to 2014 , when I'd sort of got a little bit annoyed after True Value Seller being in management positions and I had some surgery on my shoulder in 2013 , fixed it up and I was starting to feel good again . So by 2014 , I thought I'm just gonna . I'm a bit sick of this management thing .

I was probably a bit stressed out with it all so I thought let's go , you know , fall back on my trade a bit . I'm gonna try and get a job in service and warranties and just get out there and see people again . And I was lucky enough to get a job with Solagain .

So I worked at Solagain for 10 months , I think it was and yeah , it was a really good company to work for . They had their issues as well , but it was a better environment .

I felt a bit more cared for as an employee and , yeah , I got out there again and I was changing inverters and I was cleaning panels and I was seeing people's faces being happy . It was good , it was quite good . So , no more ripped off solar customers , no , no , no , it was good . It was good . It was sort of , yeah , brought my life up again .

So that was nice . But I sort of got started to get a bit I don't know a bit unsettled again just with the way some of the operations were happening as well and I thought I could just do this better . And a lot of people probably think that , but I thought I could just do this better . And an opportunity from Mark Group came up .

So they sort of I don't know how they found me , but yeah , they sort of headhunted a little bit by Mark Group and they needed someone to run their office down in the Melbourne office because there was Head Office was in Sydney at North Ride I think it was North Ride back then and they had to set a lot of office for Melbourne in Tullamareen .

So , yeah , they needed someone to look after the operations there . And yeah , I ended up caving in . I wasn't going to do it and I thought I'll do it , let's see . Let's see how this goes and I'll have another go at it . And it was funny because probably that was in January . I started there January December was it December 2015 or January 2016 ?

And by I think it was the first of April they had been bought out by private equity Anchorage .

They painted a pretty nice picture for me to get the job and then , yeah , I sort of saw a bit of a few things and we cleaned a lot of stuff up . But then by the time Anchorage sort of got there , they really sort of tied things up and they helped me with my professional development as well .

I was worried they were going to see me as like the old crew who were bleeding money because they didn't know anything . They sort of got there and they were like , who is this guy down in Melbourne ?

But I sort of I learned a lot off those people about how to run a lean business , cutting the fat away , all those sort of things , and yeah , I think they liked me . So , yeah , I ended up getting the job there as a National Operations Manager .

I was appointed there probably in May I think , and yeah , I used to spend probably maybe three or four days every fortnight up in Sydney coming and helping with the operations . Yeah , that was another interesting part of my journey .

They're the ones that have been around and they're the ones have stood the test of time and are making their margins and able to service their customers moving forward . I don't know the larger ones . Who's done it ? I mean , who's a success story being a national company ? That's sort of still around , yeah , still around . Who's doing it Is ?

I mean , they play every trick of the book to avoid to look after afterwards because if they would have to look after it they would have to go bankrupt .

Yeah , yeah , is that what you find too ?

I mean , you know , on one hand , you sort of say , well , you probably should have done your due diligence a bit better , you know , read up on the forums and all that sort of stuff , because there's that much information out there now .

Anyone who sells on price alone , that's red flags for me . Like , do we buy anything else on price alone ? I mean , do you buy ? Do you buy a car because it's the cheapest ? No , you don't . Do you no ? No , I mean I've even stopped buying milk because it's the cheapest . Like you know , you can buy milk for a dollar a liter or whatever .

Right , when they're going to buy , they have a look at the panel and they have a look at the inverter and that's their sort of , and then I suppose the price and they they weigh all those things up . We've got CEC listed products now . Now they've been around . The CEC lists have been around for a while .

I believe they're in a better spot now than they were 10 years ago and getting better all the time . It's probably harder to get on the list than it used to be . The one thing that is the variable is the installation . So I see a lot of the products , even though they are different and they have different functionalities .

I'm not going to say they're all the same , because they're not , but they're all listed products , they're all safe and they're all going to be working . Now you can have a debate about the performance and all that sort of stuff . That's that's fine .

But if you have a look at a poor installation compared to a good installation , that's , I believe , where you get your value and that's where you can really fall down . So a lot of these sales companies we find use subcontract installation , and I'm not saying that's a bad thing , because there's some subbies out there that do a really good job .

But what you don't know is if you've got a subbie doing your installation , it could be their first installation , but what are the chances that you're going to get a good install ?

So if you have someone working for a company that's been working for a company for a while and they understand the products , they understand the team they're working with and they care , I think you're probably going to get a better result compared to a subcontracter .

They're trying to get in and out as quick as they can because if they're being , if they're working for a company who's sold on price , they're likely to be screwed by that company when it gets time to be paid . So and that's just the reality of what happens these , these sales companies that are selling on price , they're trying to make money , right .

That's one area where they can sort of try and get their margins up a little bit by screwing the installer . So then the installer is going to be screwing things down too .

They're going to try and get in and out as quick as they can and if the balance of system parts that they're installing sorry that they're supplying themselves are going to be poor quality , because it doesn't matter to them if the labels will start , you know peeling off after you know a few months , or if , you know , the cable that they use starts deteriorating

or the conduits aren't UV rated .

For me that's not nowhere near as important , because the variable is the installation .

And it was on when I came back there in 26 , the start of 2016, . There was certainly less fun in the office . It wasn't , wasn't like I mentioned the Wolf of Wall Street earlier . There was less of that sort of stuff .

You could tell they were sort of they kind of knew they were in a bit of a dead end job and it was just sort of going through the motions a bit more .

They were always having this battle with you know Euro solar to be , I suppose , the cheapest , and they're always looking at how much to you know , how many megawatts are they if they install , if they sold this month , and then they , you know , try and work out how much Euro solar would have done . And it was just this .

So this two for our listeners and viewers .

I'm not sure exactly what that means , but I can guarantee you if you've got a system that is now not working , you're going to have to pay something out of your own pocket to get that back up and running again . So warranty support is not there .

I think what they failed to see was that the strain stand has changed so much that it was never upgradeable because you were never able to add panels onto that , because those new inverters never met the standard a year or two down the track because the product standards kept changing Plus the wattage panels changed .

Well , that's the other thing , that's right , that's right . The wattage of the panels changed so they were never upgradeable . So I'm sure there's a whole heap of them still out there not working . Eight panels on a five kilo one inverter Not very efficient ? No , definitely not . No . Well , they see , that was the thing it was . They didn't think about that .

They were just thinking oh , you know , let's , we can sell this upgradeable . Yeah , just buy the bigger inverter now . You know I will make more margin on it , but you know we'll only give you eight panels and you can think about it later on the track .

And I know a lot of the installers fell bad in the stomach doing it , but they just did it because that's what the work was there .

What's your advice to end customers when buying a solar ?

You don't want the installer to be there and you know , putting their feet through the , through the plaster and all that sort of stuff and , um yeah , chomping , chomping on your roses and all that sort of stuff . You want someone . I mean I'd prefer to get someone with an in-house crew . I think that's the way to go .

Yeah , someone with an in-house crew who's going to have a company that's going to be having healthy margins , that can be there to support you when or if things go wrong ?

You need to have a local presence . Without a local presence , if they don't have a local presence , you want to stay away from them . Now .

So whoever you start your solar with , you're likely to go into many other products with them , yep . Have you seen a change in the whole industry and the perspective ?

I always thought , oh , your gas isn't too bad , it's a bit cheaper and it's not as bad as the environment and all that sort of stuff , and at least it's you know , we're not burning coal and all this . I didn't realize how bad it was , to be honest . So that's bad on me .

But now I'm totally converted and I can see the people that I do inspections for always . They're always talking about heat pumps and they're talking about how to harvest as much solar as they can to , you know , heat up their heat pumps and reverse cycle air conditioning rather than gas heaters .

Yeah , yeah , there's so many , so many people I mean I'm only seeing it really in Melbourne so many people electrifying the whole house . Now I'm getting rid of their gas . It's great to see , really great . So I think there's a bit of an education piece , that sort of happened from the industry and it's starting to really get through .

I think , just to get , as you obviously want , to get as much on as you can .

I mean that's , we've designed our house to maximize sort of as much as we can . We're trying to make the roof so we can get as many panels on it .

We never really get an idea what's going on there , and we actually sometimes feel that maybe the small installer is really not the key audience there . It's the big energy companies that really are on the board and play the tune , and all that For sure . I don't want to get you into trouble , but what can you tell us out of your CC days For ?

listen to what they want to . But the Clean Energy Council is effectively sort of split up into different departments . So you've got your sort of policy and advocacy staff who are mainly looking at the larger companies large scale , solar wind , all those type of things . Then you've got your accreditation and compliance and they're looking after the small scale .

So this is the stuff we're sort of talking about Smaller companies , installers , and they run the accreditation program at the moment . Then , on top of that , off to the side as well is well , when I was there it was the approved solar retailer program and now that's transitioned into the net CC , which CC are the administers of that too .

So you've got three different parts of this organization and I think what a lot of people don't realize is sometimes they're all sort of fighting for the same space . So there's a lot of things that happen internally at the CC where everyone tries to be on the same page with the way they do things , but they're sort of butting heads a little bit too .

And you've got an organization controlling that and they've been doing it for a decade plus and we've heard over and over poor results company furnishing some gear being brought in that's crap . They're in charge and they're trying to control it , but the smart asses who know how to make money are always outwitting them at the end .

I think it's the main ones you know that are doing the wrong thing , which sort of make all the noise . So that's that's what I think . So there's certainly room for improvement . But I think what a lot of people don't realise about the Clean Energy Council is that they're funded by the industry .

So a lot of people think they're a government department and they're funded by the government , but they're not .

Yeah , well , what are the benefits of it when some companies who are the crook of crook have gotten , being able to be now getting the recommendation ? Yeah so the Clean Energy badge actually helps the crooks to look good .

So because they're not a government department or they're not a regulator or anything like that , what they can't send people to jail for not following their rules or anything like that . But we've heard recently there's been some action where some installers have been pulled up for fraudulent activity . I think there was some .

I think someone's recently just got in some trouble for being in another country and signing off installs , something like that .

Nevertheless , I just look at the end result and the end result is that we're supposed to save the world , yeah , and we've brought millions of panels into Australia and we still haven't actually had the CEC drive very hard . A recycling program yeah , things like that I see as a failure .

If you're the leader of the industry , if you're representing the industry , if you're taking money out of the industry , if you're doing a clean energy product and then your stuff goes in the majority in the landfill because you have actively encouraged the recycling industry after 10 , 15 years , yeah , that's a failure .

I know there's been some stuff happening in the industry sort of recently . I don't know if that's pushed by the CEC , though I think maybe the Smart Energy Council had , and I think the scandal of these panels in 10 years time , millions of them have to be found at home .

I mean , when I was working for a manufacturer , if you guys would have come to me and asked for an escrow scheme where I have to pay $2 per panel to later on guarantee that those panels would be recycled , we would have loved that because it would have been a perfect marketing opportunity of how clean and clean we are .

The first main sort of commercial boom that I can remember was about in 2017 , 2018 , a whole heap of like 100 kilowatts systems are going on commercial roofs . You know , just heaps and heaps . They were just going everywhere . A lot of them were done by cheap , cheap sales companies .

They're going to like I don't know , some of them are probably already at their end of life right now already . So that's , that's a worry and the problems unless it gets sorted out , it's going to get much worse . I agree . But what was actually your role at the CC ? So I started there as a technical and compliant specialist .

When I started there , it was pretty much answering the phone when the installs would call up and wanting some help , go through standards and guidelines and just , yeah , general assistance .

We would do other things like install the nights your webinars . I just love doing webinars . Oh , great fun . A lot of people who've heard me on webinars probably sick of hearing my voice because we used to do a lot of them . We used to do them every six to eight weeks about the standards and guidelines and yeah so they were like a training form really .

Yeah , yeah , well , they do for continuous professional development as well . I think they were worth maybe 50 points . So , yeah , it was probably a one hour webinar where people would log in and we would go through a technical presentation , have a bit of ban test , usually between the presenters . We try to .

We try to make it , you know , engaging and funny , where we could have some poor jokes as well . And then , yeah , we'd do , we'd open it up for questions and people used to type their questions in and we'd read them out and answer them . It was really good really good way of doing it and , yeah , they sort of stopped .

They stopped that in about 2019 , 2020 . Sort of got to the stage in 2018 . I'd been there just over a year and my boss at the time he decided to move on . So all of a sudden there's this big hole left in the technical team . So I ended up with the technical team leader job . What did that role for ? I don't know ? 18 months to use something .

That makes it really hard for the installers and it also made it hard for us to get the message out about doing the right thing , because there's so much to be over in the solar industry as an installer to get it right . A lot of people you know might think it's solar installer .

You know they just sort of rock up on a Monday morning with their chocolate , milk and sausage roll you know whatever , and they just throw panels on the roof and then they're at the you know in the beer garden by 3pm on a Friday . You know knocking down schooners , but it's it's . There's more to it .

You've got to actually be pretty switched on to be a solar installer . You need to know your stuff , you need to know your standards , you need to know how to run a good team . And , yeah , getting that across to people who've come across from just being normal general sort of light and power sparkies , it's a big step up . It's a really big step up .

So we were trying to make that transition , I suppose , for them a bit easier , trying to educate them as much as we can and then keep reeducating because they yeah , again , they kept changing . Doing that in a smooth manner was a bit of a challenge , I would say .

So the rooftop compared to the inverter adjacent isolator , the fires were don't quote me 100% , but it doesn't really matter because it's so close , it doesn't matter . There was 51% of fires were from the inverter isolator and 49% were on the roof .

I suppose the thinking is that if there's a fire on your roof it's less likely to cause more destruction because there's not as much fuel on a roof . You know you might burn the side of a panel , the , you know the isolator might turn into a big , you know blob of plastic , but there's not .

Generally speaking , there's not many things that can catch fire , but you're talking about an inverter isolator on the wall . Especially if it's on a weatherboard wall , that can have catastrophic consequences . Yeah , so that's . They're the ones that were sort of .

It seems like the standards committee were the ones that they were the ones that they wanted to get rid of . As far as the rooftop , we would sort of see the issues we would see with rooftop isolators . We're , generally speaking , were product issues , workmanship issues .

You know , sometimes you see , like a rattle gun on a isolator , you know you should be really doing them up with a screwdriver so you just make sure they're hand tight . That , generally speaking , I think was the reason why we were getting those issues with the rooftop isolators . So the idea , I think , is not as bad as what everyone says .

A lot of people say you know you put DC on a roof out in the weather , of course it's going to catch fire . But if you do it in , if you do it the right way , you do it safely , you use a good product . I think you can still have a safe outcome . But I think the advent of disconnection points has been a really good thing too .

Getting rid of getting rid of the isolator on the roof . It's been good .

Where there's been , we've looked at old systems and done like condition reports on them and seen some things .

Yeah , I worked on a program where they were looking at old systems from the solar schools back in I think it started in 2008 , maybe something like that and we were doing sort of condition reports on them , making sure that they were still up to standard , products were OK , yeah , they were safe and running and that sort of stuff .

And , yeah , some of that was a bit of an eye opener .

We can read them now been out in the sun or in the weather and yeah , for me labeling is a pretty big thing .

Is that right ? No , you wouldn't get it .

Yeah , is it a good idea to inspect every solar system that's been installed ?

Maybe they see what Victoria do first and jump on afterwards . You can see it with the , with the safety working at heights and those type of things . I suppose when Solovit came out , they were really big on working safely , working at heights , and they brought in things like mandatory edge protection for installers .

And then you know , sort of New South Wales , worksafe New South Wales sorry , worksafety New South Wales , I think that's what they're called . Yeah , they decided to interpret the rules the same way as Victorians and then you see a shift in the way installers are working in New South Wales and it started to filter into other states as well .

So I mean I would like to see it happen in New South Wales . Some of the stuff you see , some of the installations in and around Sydney , I think , yeah , it leaves a lot to be desired and I see some of them .

Sometimes you know just whether it's people I've worked , you know I work with , or send me photos you know from around Sydney , or even stuff you see online . I think that the installation quality could be improved a fair bit by mandatory inspections in New South Wales .

So , and you know , I just put my hand out of the panel and it was just sort of flapping around .

There's been other ones where you've seen really poor connections . Look , not just on the roof but at the switchboard or in the AC isolator , and there's been burning of the conductor melting , and yeah , things look really , you know , really poor .

In a way that it's , I sort of felt happy that I was there because I felt like I saved them from saved from catching fire . You know , like the conductors you isolate it and the conductors still warm those type of things . And you know these people , they were elderly people and they , they didn't know it .

Yeah , they just like , oh , we think it's working , we're not sure . And I've gone to open up the isolator and I've gone , something's not right here . I could just tell something was wrong . There's a big crack in the side of the isolator and it wouldn't switch properly and I'm going , what's going on here ? Open it up .

Yeah , there's , yeah , conductors burnt and yeah , it was a disaster waiting to happen . So that's that's . That's another one . And I've had other ones where the neutral conductor inside the switchboard was not tight and burnt out . So , yeah , another almost disaster . So that's .

You don't see , like if I hadn't been there to inspect these systems , they would never have known until probably it was too late , do you ?

We've never had any difference to a bill , we've never had anything different , any different . It's just gone up and up and up and up .

Um , I've reached out to a few people at work New South Wales government jobs I'm not going to mention who they are Um , and I've said you know , solovik program has seen um unsafe installations drop . I'm not sure exactly what the numbers were . I think it's something like 2.7% of installations are unsafe and it's now below 1% in Victoria .

Um , now New South Wales . I'm not sure what the numbers are . I don't know if you capture this data , because that's , this is the thing . They don't capture the data because they don't do the inspections . But obviously there's a lot of systems out there that are getting through and they don't have the resources like a .

I mean there's a whole government department . I mean I know Solovik are part of uh Delp in Victoria , but there's a whole government department that's um dedicated to solar installations in Victoria . So yeah , they're interested in it . It doesn't seem to be that same appetite in New South Wales for safety .

Um , and I've asked about it , saying you know , surely you'd have a look at what's happening in Victoria , the good results that we're seeing , and I can understand why you don't have mandatory inspections . It's something you're looking at . Is you know ? If you're not doing it , why aren't you doing it ? Is it a funding thing ? Is it a lack of appetite ?

What is it ? And the answer I kind of got was well , we've been looking at other things . So we're we're interested in um , trying to get unlicensed people from um doing installations . I don't know I'm not sure if they mentioned solar installations or not , but electricians being unlicensed .

So we're , rather than doing inspections and audits post install , we're trying to go out when they're installing things and catch them without their license . That's a great , I'm like great .

I understand there's been something I think I think they may have mentioned that it's been a change in government in New South Wales in what the last six , 12 months ? Yeah , correct , something like that . Yeah , that was mentioned that you know it's probably a time where that's not going to happen .

There's not really an appetite for it at the moment , but , um , yeah , I just I don't think the appetite is there .

Now I know you've got the uh , there's inspections done by Osgrid , I think . I think Osgrid do a lot of inspections and then the other two DNSPs maybe not so much was the endeavor and essential I think maybe they have some inspections not really sure I think they're spot inspections and also the CER is doing them afterwards . That's right .

So the CER are doing them . That's right , they're doing them . The CER are doing them everywhere and like that's the same in Victoria too . So but you just don't . So in Victoria you've got every installation gets inspected at least once . It needs to be to be to be signed off . Then you got Solovic on top of that that are doing 5% .

Then you got the CER on top of that that are doing 5% . Then you may also get an ESV inspection , which may not be as extensive because they may not looking , they may not have solar people doing those , they may just be electricians .

But you can get caught from so many different angles in Victoria but seems like in New South Wales and a few of the other states you can kind of do it your life .

Then we have knee-jerk reactions all the way the other way . That's usually when politicians get involved . When you worked in what you described as the Wolf of Wall Street sales environment in that cheap solar company , what were the kind of hooks that they got customers to stick to ? Was it just the cheap price or , come on , spill the beans ?

I'd always think I'm going to be in for it tonight , because there's always a lot of sales on that last Thursday of the month . I kept thinking what is it ? Why are they so rowdy tonight ? There was pizza , there was music , there may have been a few beverages being thrown around , all that sort of stuff . What's going on here .

I asked around and I'm like why are you guys so rowdy tonight ? Because it's nights . At night , this is when we make hay . I'm like , okay , why , what are you doing ? Pretty much the answer was well , we've basically been told to get our sales targets up , so we drop our pants on the price . That was pretty much what it was .

They'd go be speaking to this customer for two to three weeks , whatever it was . Come the end of the month crunch time , sales numbers need to begin . All right , I know we said we wouldn't do it for $600 cheaper or whatever . We're going to do it , we're going to do it . So I don't know if that's what you're looking for exactly .

I didn't really get too exposed to high pressure tactics . I wasn't really too exposed to that . I was a little bit on the other end , though , so not necessarily with the sales side of things , but on the operation side .

There was sort of a time where , let's say , an installation was about to happen and then for some reason , there was a problem on site and unforeseen issue with the installer . So the installer gets out there and goes well , you know , I'm only going to get you know . Whatever it is $1,200 for this install , this 6.6 . I'm only going to get $1,200 for this .

So they'd look at it and go , well , this isn't a standard install , so I need more money . So they'd call me up and they'd go all right , well , we need an extra $200 for a long cable run here . I'd be like , all right , I'm like I can't just authorize this .

So we need to work out what to do , so that actually has someone employed as install support and they would be that liaison between the customer and Truebase to work out what to do .

And what they basically would do is say look , the installers come back and said there's a , there's a cable run that we didn't you know , it was an unforeseen thing , and you now need to pay another $300 . Now , bear in mind , the install is only getting $200 . Okay , so it's not at cost .

And the customer would then say , well , hang on , this is not what you said , you know . And they'd go a bit of argy-bargy , this and that , and then they'd end up saying , all right , fine , we'll do it for $250 . Okay , so , they do it for $250 , and they'd be like the customer's still like , well , this is not what I agree to .

I don't want to , I'm going to cancel , I'm not happy with this . And then there were things said like well , that's okay , if you want to cancel , that's fine , that's up to you , that's in your right , but you'll lose an admin fee .

And you know the guys have been out on site so you know you'll have to pay for their time too so and we've got already your deposit . Got your deposit . You can't , you know ? Fine , we'll give you a refund , but you know we're just gonna we'll be deducting the admin fee .

I think the admin fee like sort of before I left , I think it was around 500 bucks . Isn't that , men , decent admin fee ? So they're covering costs and obviously the stuff I mentioned before about how the operations team were the ones having to clean up this mess .

Maybe they'd learnt that lesson , thinking well , we need to get more out of the customer to recover that cost because they'd lost so much money .

So look , not necessarily a sales tactic to close the sale , but it's backing the customer into a corner to the point where you know they'd probably most of the time they'd go well , all right , just do it , I'll pay the extra money . It's not worth it for me , just do it .

You know , we had the fob key with the security passes to get into the doors and the office and all that sort of stuff and they were sort of standing there waiting for someone to open the door . They had no idea where to go . You know , a lot of our officers are like rabbit wounds and true base . I was like that .

They had no idea where to go but they knew they had to get behind that first door . So we were sort of told we almost went into lockdown . This customer is out there . This one in particular was they wanted their deposit back and , yeah , they weren't willing to give it .

There was another one I can remember where it was yeah , they had an install from 12 months ago , something like that , and yeah , it wasn't working and there was issues with warranties . So they were like , yeah , beating on the door and yeah , just imagine . Just whatever you're imagining is probably exactly what happened , probably exactly what happened .

I mean , those types of things used to happen a little bit even at the CEC as well , like installers being upset , hearing it downstairs being yeah . I got threatened a few times at the working at the CEC . I got physically threatened once at an installer event by an installer who yeah .

So I thought they needed a voice and I'd sort of try and say what I thought is exactly what happening or not , what people are thinking was happening . And yeah , we this person and I used to clash heads a fair bit and yeah , running into them at an event once and yeah , physically threatened me . It wasn't a great experience .

Unfortunately , like with any big systems a million systems installed in a couple of years things can fall through the cracks .

But you know , again , the CEC can only do so much and they've also got to have a fair and reasonable process as well , so they can't be seen to be , you know , favoring anyone or having it in for anyone or anything like that . So you've got to , they've got to be as reasonable as they can , Cause all you know , these things can end up in court .

Installation quality on a general scale is better , like I think now even some of even some of the ones that may have been doing a really poor job back then are doing a better job now . Or I suppose what I'm trying to say is the lowest common denominator is slightly higher , like I even think .

I even look at some of the installation quality of some of the work I did back in 2009 . And I cringe a bit , to be honest . We didn't know any better . I would say the installation is a big part of the changes and what's got better . So , yeah , I think it's definitely got better and yeah , it's the products and installation which have got better .

If you don't have that after sale service , you can't really call yourself a good company .

If you stand under the panels , it's pretty hard to diagnose too , unless you actually get up in there and have a look Hard to see from on top of the roof . You can only really see it from underneath . So yeah , it can definitely become an issue .

The good installers do that really , really well , and the top notch installers seem to not just have the PV side information label laminated and all nice and clear with all the information .

They'll also do things like have a QR code in the corner which not just shows an electronic copy of that document , but it also directs a direction to a drive which has got all of the installation documents . So you know all the things that need to be handed over as part of , as part of what's in the standards for the customer .

So you're talking installation warranty manuals , what to do in the case of an earth fault , alarm maintenance mentioned that . Yeah , all of the product information , single line diagrams , yeah , so all I think there's about 15 items . So , yeah , they're all on there . So that's when I see that and I see the QR code , that's the gold standard .

Yeah , yeah , usually I'm thinking , okay , this is probably going to be a pretty , pretty good install , pretty good install . So I usually see the QR code . Pretty good install , so I usually see that . But , yeah , a lot of the time that the proofing is in the putting on the roof . So you may I mean , you can still have like installers who run crews .

They might just send their TAs to do all the roof work and then the what is the TA ? Trade assistant ? Yeah , trade assistants , so an unqualified person to do all the roof work and then the electrician does all the stuff on the ground . So you can find all the stuff on the ground can look pretty neat sometimes and have good work and chip in it .

And then you get on the roof and , yeah , it's like a bombs hit it . So you're seeing other things like only one screw being used to fix the tile brackets into the roof . That's why I always look at installers . I don't know , it's like they try and get one over me sometimes , but they only want to put one screw in .

You have to put two , but they only want to put one screw in . So what sometimes they'll do is they'll put two screws on all of the outer brackets , cause they know I'm going to check them . I always try my hardest to get to one that's sort of under the array , and check that .

Make sure there's two screws on that too , cause usually if they're going to only use one screw they're just going to be lazy . That's a lazy installer and it's going to be other stuff you're going to find .

But yeah , like you know , I understand they're trying to save time and they're trying to save money and all that sort of stuff . That kind of stuff , it's just lazy . There's no other way to explain it .

They're going to be the ones who are going to be wanting to look after the customer , do a quality job , use quality products and look after the customer , because that's what we all want to do . We want to look after them .

It does happen , though it does happen . For me that's the variable that makes all the difference . But , yeah , certainly , seeing some really good quality , all the good brands that you're going to pay the extra money for , with some very poor working chip , you certainly that's .

Yeah , just because you're paying for a top notch inverter , you know you're paying top dollar for the top notch inverter . Top notch panels Doesn't mean you're going to get a good system . You still could have a really poor installation . Yeah , seen that a lot . Definitely seen that a lot .

Oh geez , straight away , you're tough . Okay , I've actually got two end clamps . I'm a bit short and I just used some mid clamps on the back of the last panel , because the mid clamps are still holding it down .

Top row and bottom row Could be a problem when they expand a bit , but are you smart enough to pick that up ?

On the installation instructions Again , that's an installation manufacturer's instructions , so , cause there's actually no standard that says you , there's nothing in Australian standards that says that you can't do that , but there is something in Australian standards that you must install your products as per manufacturer's instructions .

Now , nearly all of them say you must not install them in direct sunlight or in a way like that . And so again , I'll be asking the questions Please show me in the manufacturer's instructions where it says you can do that , cause if you can't , it's a defect .

So I'm certainly not gonna name names , but I think that potentially they need to have a look at their installation manual because that product ain't gonna last on a Northern wall and especially , I mean , you know , or anywhere in Australia , victoria , you're like you know it can be .

We usually get at least a few days of , you know , 42 , 43 degrees , and there's multiple days over 30 , 35 in the harsh Western sun or Northern sun , and ain't gonna last , ain't gonna last .

What's that ?

You need to install products which are going to be fit for the environment they're gonna be installed in Now I'd be asking for the installed approved that that's gonna last a lifetime of the system , cause you can usually tell that cheap Bunnings type conduit you shouldn't be using it in solar . You should be using proper solar UV rated conduit .

But when the earth connection to the array , like I was talking before , there's an earth lug put on the rail and then so the panels and everything are all earth , the way they should be , but then they don't put a cable tie before the connection and they just string it tight .

They string the earth cable tight between the connections , so tight that you could like yeah . I could just about play stairway to heaven on it . Like you know , you could play a tune on it . So I can't stand that . And you're putting the .

You're compromising the integrity of the whole of the earthing system by putting that connection under strain and it takes like two seconds to put a cable tie to stop to relieve the strain from that connection . Yeah so , and a lot of the time it's only a minor defect which gets issued . But I just don't understand why they do it .

all of that . There's some pretty good products out there now which are pretty easy to install and they're much cheaper than what they used to be . They're much more cost effective . So I can't see why you wouldn't monitor a system now . I just don't see why you invest in that hardware . Yeah , that's right , but I'm also seeing a lot of these .

You know cheaper systems . They actually sell monitoring and it's not set up . So like the customer bought it but never got it . Well , yeah , a lot of the time they said I think I've got monitoring . I'm not sure . And I go out and have a look and I go , oh well , you've got the USB dongle sitting underneath . Have you set it up yet ?

Have you gone on the QR code ? You've gone on to their website , whichever platform they might decide to do it , like , oh no , no , yeah , I'm not sure . The installer didn't have time in the day so I think I thought they were going to do it and they said they might be back . But yeah , I haven't heard from see that a lot . That's one thing .

We see a lot not , either not set up or not set up properly . So , because a lot of systems now do have monitoring on them , I think they're sold with monitoring . It's very rare we see a system that doesn't have some sort of monitoring but we don't see the other side of it . You know I don't jump onto every single customer's app and see that .

You know you're getting the right numbers that you should be .

So if you have underperforming system , if you have one string broken down , or so , even if you have monitoring , if you don't know how to interpret it , you actually still have useless data .

I don't know we might need to cut this , I'm not sure , but I think it feels some of the monitoring , let's say , from an inverter manufacturer , the ones that they set up on their own platform I feel like sometimes they only give the data that they want to give to maybe makes their product look a bit better or it may mean they can shirk warranties a little

bit easier . I feel like that does happen a little bit Because you have other type of monitoring which is like brand agnostic , like solar analytics type those type of ones . They give you all . They give you everything , they show you everything . So I mean , I haven't done the comparison .

Having a look at what data you get out of solar analytics and then comparing it to what you might get out of the inverter manufacturer is monitoring . I don't know . I just feel like sometimes they're a little bit different , but that's only .

If you then missing out on what your consumption is within the house is , then you also have flying blind , because what you really should do is use as much of your solar in the middle of the day with timers , we sending it into the hot water , et cetera .

So if you want to get the maximum benefit out of solar , having the appropriate monitoring that actually points you in the right direction of what you should do is really what's needed , and a lot of the material that's sitting on the inverter doesn't give you that full picture .

It only says green light I'm working , red light I'm sleeping , and in between the customer hasn't got a clue .

The one thing I do have a bug about is that when very good inverters still have monitoring systems that look like they were designed in the 1950s , I think you're letting yourself down and your product if you don't really up to scratch . I mean , Tesla has really set the benchmark .

It's a very nice app , it's easy to recognize and I think everybody in the game has to lift their bar to give the end customer really good monitoring .

You know , gone are the days where you know we install the system and you know you're halfway out of the driveway before you turn it on . You don't even do the anti-irlending test or anything like that , and you know you don't set up monitoring or anything like that . Now there's a bit to it setting up , making sure the monitoring's right .

I want my installer to help me do all of that , because a lot of the customers are 50 , 60 . You give them the Wi-Fi dongle and say , good luck , Nothing's ever going to happen .

Yeah , we see that a lot too , especially with the population that aren't quite as tech savvy . They're like oh , I'm just waiting for my grandson to come over . He's good with these computer things . He's got an app on his phone , he'll work it out . Yeah , but I feel like it's an easy win . Monitoring .

I feel like now we're at a time where it's like , yeah , get them now , get them now . That's what I feel like we're out with it . Technology now seems to be really safe if it's been stored well . Installers are knowing what the capabilities of these batteries are . They're well versed on how to install them safely , putting them in the right locations .

We've had AS5139 standard out for a few years now , so I think the stalls are getting used to it and , yeah , certainly seeing more of them and I think it's just going to continue to grow with the way people's houses are looking . Yeah , you're kind of you know , if you're building a house , you kind of really need a battery now , don't you , I think .

My theory is that EVs will come . Most people who have a petrol car today they buy a new car in five years time At least . Consider a hybrid , which means that the soul on the battery is really going to be the driver of a free petrol , so to speak , which means the hour around the battery is going to be rather good .

But if everybody in four or five years wants to suddenly have a battery , battery prices will go up . Installation times will take six months , nine months . They're going to have a backlog . So if you're smart , you buy it early in the curve because you're not going to be standing in line . That's my theory .

Yeah , I don't know if you share it or not , but that's why I agree with you . Now is the right time to start looking at batteries .

I just hear from what a lot of the installers I speak to . Yeah , that's sort of yeah , supply can be a really big issue , most definitely . Yeah , you're right with EVs as well . How many people now do you know who would go and buy an internal combustion engine car ?

Like , if , as your next car , wouldn't be too many , I wouldn't think Still a few dinosaurs . I think that can't get their head around the electric vehicle side of things . And actually there's still people like me who want to drive an electric vehicle , but I sort of can't because of what I require for the technology .

Well , I'm not saying the technology is not there , but we don't have the products in Australia yet . We don't have the vehicles for what I need .

That's what's been explained to me is , and there's no real nice stuff in there , and at the moment I'm driving a 2020 Triton , so I bought that brand new . So I bought that on . It was actually , yeah , it was on my son's 18th birthday , so it was the 5th of February 2020 .

I was working at the CEC , still only doing small trips for inspection . So basically , in two years I've done 100,000 Ks in two years . So I can do some long trips and I don't mind stopping to charge . That's okay . I've got to stop for fuel . Even if I have to stop more frequently to charge , I don't care . No problems , I've got to stop .

I've got to go to the toilet , I've got to buy food , whatever it is . I need a rest , but at the moment there's just nothing that will really carry the ladders I require on those longer distances . Maybe there'd be something for just being in and around town , where it's a bit better . But yeah , for highway driving I'm just waiting .

I don't know , maybe it's the F-150 Lightning , maybe that's the one that's going to come out . What about the Cybertruck ? Well , we're just waiting on the Cybertruck , aren't we ? When's that coming out ? Does anyone know when that's coming out ?

I don't want to be turning up in , you know , you sometimes just see inspectors turn up in , you know , like an old Commodore or something like that , with just a fold out ladder in the back or whatever . Like , I try and make sure I've got all the right gear and I'm doing all the right things .

So that's yeah , probably a Tesla Model Y with a roof rack on it's probably not the right one .

Look , I'm not 100% over all the safety concerns that may need to be overcome , but I can't see it being that hard . I think it's a really good idea and , yeah , we should move forward with it . Seems like a good way to stabilize the grid , to provide power when it's required . Yeah , I can only see pluses with that .

And only use it when we're required to use it .

What do we do with it ? Why haven't they created some buckets , meaning some big batteries in the meantime ? I mean , they could have foreseen this , and now we're wasting this renewable energy going to nowhere because we don't have the infrastructure to handle it . What's your position ?

So I think there's still some night rates where you get your hot water at night because it's the cheaper night rate . So that doesn't seem to be now the cheapest time to have power , because , yeah , obviously the sun's out in the middle of the day . We should be harvesting it .

Yeah , I think you're right , we should have put more batteries in , even on a utility scale Starting to happen a little bit now . But yeah , I think we're behind .

That's going to be a lot of money , and the government actually needs the energy retailers and the distributors on site , because if they make the big profits now , the government can say , okay , well , some of that money please invest back into the grid . So we let you have the old big profits first . Now we want to get something back .

I have a feeling that's the only reason why the government's not kicking them in the butt for it , because we all suffer the cost of living crisis with the high electricity bills . They don't need to be so high , but nobody's pushing downwards .

cared for the system and cared for the after sale , and in that case you would probably give me a pass .