¶ Advantages of Enphase Solar Systems
Hi , welcome to the YEA podcast . And today we have somebody that I've known for a long time , which is Michael Ryken from XL Power in Toowoomba . And Michael , you came to Sydney yesterday because of the Tesla Powerwall launch . I was very impressed because the advantages and the features kind of just spurted out of that product . What did you think ?
I was quite impressed by the standard of the whole delivery of the process and I thought it really set the standard for how product launches will happen in the future .
I think some people will still give you the little canopies that are a bit dry when they're on a budget . But no , that was really . But what about the features of the product and making it user-friendly for the installer and stuff like that ? I mean , were there particular features of that product that you thought that was a good idea ?
We'll probably still AC couple with the Tesla inverter , which we've always done with Enphase . That'll be our Key go forward . Yeah , key , go forward .
I was really interested in how they did their packaging and all that sort of stuff , how you could start stacking more inverters in your workshop that sort of staves a lot of face , and the fact that you could start sending that packaging back and get it all redone again . We're sick of our bin fill of styrofoam at the moment .
Yeah , so the fact that they were taking an environmental approach to the way the stuff is packaged and you can actually give them the package back and it can be reused , I thought that was quite impressive . But let's go back a little bit in time , I mean how long have you been installing solar with XL Power ?
XL Power is a 31-year-old company Basically . We started in the renewable side of things about 16 years ago .
So you've got a little bit of experience , have you ? Yeah , we've got a little bit of experience .
We're pretty passionate about our industry and what we do , and it's probably one of those jobs where you actually do something which actually makes a difference to people's lives . In terms of power bills , state of power bills . Yeah , they feel better for it and they're always quite proud . It's good to see a customer who's come in .
We installed a system 14 years ago . Came in their office the other day and wanted his panels clean . Still working , Still working , just wanted his panels clean .
And the company's still going to give after-sales support . Because in our industry we do get a lot of fly-by-nighters come and going , young people getting all excited about going to solar . Three years later . It's the hard industry they get out again back up to electricians . You're a stickler .
You hang around , do you ? I just really enjoy the innovation and it's given me the opportunity to travel all over the world . You know , we've been to China . We've been to Europe yeah , korea , korea , yeah , with LG . Yeah , it was impressive .
What's the Toowoomba kind of population like ? I mean , when we're here , we're here in Sydney and , quite frankly , when it comes to Queensland , we know Brisbane , but you ask me anything about Roma or places like that , I've got no clue , you know , yeah , what's Toowoomba like .
They call Toowoomba the till on the hill , but you're not going to publish that .
No , we do . What is it called ?
The till on the hill .
That sounds actually quite nice . Till is that where the money is , is it so ? You guys got people with money , have you A lot ?
of good money in Toowoomba , a lot of old money in Toowoomba , a lot of farming Right , a lot of customers there who are generations who have been in the region , who are quite loyal to the area .
So you're basically what are you saying ? A bit old-fashioned , where actually common sense is still common , is it Absolutely yeah , right , right , because in a lot of new places common sense is actually not very used anymore . So you guys still drive on the right side of the road and an honest conversation is an honest conversation . Is that what Toowoomba's like ?
It'd be pretty rare to go shopping in Toowoomba and not run into somebody you know .
So you're kind of a bit of an institution . Do people know if they need good solar Michael can help you , yeah , I believe we've built that reputation over years , right ? So what do you specialise in and what are you really passionate about in your industry ?
Passionate about renewable and we're passionate about giving back . I think that's really important in our industry and really dealing with quality products and quality companies .
And so what does that mean in terms of the gear that you use ? What do you like ?
Well , we want good support , we want good backup , we want good training and we want good follow-up . If we ever have an issue , we need to be able to talk to somebody . We've found that with all the companies we're pretty well dealing with now .
So if you use XL Power , you're actually using a product where , if the customer has a problem , it goes to you and you pass it on to the manufacturer , exactly , and it doesn't get filed into the never , never pile , does it ?
We try to .
We don't get it right every time , but we you try to file it into the never , never pile .
We try to make sure it's always solved .
Right , okay , so you would then naturally get quite a bit of repeat business from word of mouth .
That's probably our biggest . Marketing is probably that repeat work .
And why is that ? Because you basically had a . You've got how many customers and how many systems would you install locally ?
I think with Enphase I think we've got nearly 750 Enphase systems installed . At the moment Our off-grid market's growing . We've probably got a couple hundred off-grid customers there with systems . We constantly monitor and doing repairs on older systems and maintenance to sort of keep them going .
So if I have an Enphase system and , let's say , something goes wrong , would you actually be the one that notices and let me know , or do I have to kind of be on the ball ?
We try and follow up our alerts . We don't monitor 742 systems looking at it every sort of day , but if a customer does ring us , we can be basically as long as that system's monitored we'll hop online and we'll help them with the best way we can .
Right . So why do you like Enphase ? I can hear you . I mean , I spoke to Enphase and Enphase is possibly in Australia one of the highest regarded products . But then Enphase actually has a bit of a fanboy club and I hear that you're one of the key members .
Yeah , I'd have to agree with that . We just don't like burning people's houses down , so that's why we've always stuck with Enphase Right .
That's a very charitable kind of attitude . So you believe it's one of the safest products . Yeah , our installers won't install anything else .
We haven't installed a string system now for seven years and explain why is Enphase so safe ? It's actually controlled by a safety switch . That system is fully expandable , like it's all updatable .
If a customer loses a panel for whatever reason whether it's a hail damage or a tree lands on it we can just pop up with another panel and we can just replace it or update that micro inverter to keep the system going .
So explain that to people . What's happened in the solar industry ? Let me explain to people . The solar industry Manufacturers try to change their panels to become more and more efficient , and it unfortunately really means every six months or so a new model comes out .
So if you bought a system in 2015 and you now had an issue with one of the panels or you want to expand , there's not much chance to find that panel again , which means if you have a string system , there could be a problem . How is Enphase better in that situation ?
Well , because it's an AC system , we basically just add the latest micro and put the latest panel there .
So basically , it doesn't matter that the panel is actually a slightly higher efficient panel , you can just bolt it on and it will work .
Yep , as long as we keep it in the standards and the cable size , everything's fine . Okay , so it gives you maximum flexibility . Yep and the same monitoring with their architecture just works all the way through .
Now I hear , in solar it's so easy nowadays you know You've got good gear If you've got really good gear can you still stuff it up in the install ?
Well , one thing about an in-phase once you've got it installed and got it monitored , the office always we always make a phone , call the office back . They'll have all that data uploaded and they'll check that system Within a couple of days . After that we'll contact the customer , get them logged on and run through the app with them . Happy days .
And then you don't hear from the customer for a very long time . Do they ever ring you and say my bill is much lower ?
Yeah , we get that quite a lot actually . That's pretty good .
Right . So when you get a customer walk in , how do you actually approach it ? Because they hear a lot of things about solar . People can get very confused .
How do you kind of put clarity in it ? I think because we believe in what we do .
If you look at our buildings , we've probably got a lot of solar on both of our buildings , with a lot of the end phase architecture which has gone all the way through from probably the last eight years , and we just basically run them through what we've done and run them through the monitoring .
We do explain that it's a dearer system to install but the savings down the track Because you get more output , you get more output and you reduce that single point of failure .
now which , to explain to normal people , single point of failure means if you have an inverter and the inverter dies or anything happens , even in the string , your system goes phew .
And they don't know about it , probably to their second electricity bill , which is even more frustrating for them .
But then with the end phase , if there is a problem in one of the elements of the system , all the rest is still banging away . So you're not going to get that nasty bill shock . Exactly , and you explain that to the customer . And then yeah , okay , got
¶ Importance of Quality Solar Systems
that . Now you have seen this industry already . For how many years you've been in it ?
Probably going around 14 years now , right , right .
Is after sales important .
I think after sales services everything .
But some companies sell you a cheap solar system .
There's no after sales service and I think half of our work is basically ripping five-year-old systems off the cricket systems Off the cricket pitch .
You mean , yeah , ripping off five-year systems recommended by cricketers , yeah , and installing an in-phase system back on .
But unfortunately the customers pay twice Right ?
Are you kind of like saying well , mate , you came to me five years ago , I told you to go for quality , quality , and now you learned your lesson . And do you have a bit of a smirk , or are you actually upset that they wasted their money ?
Oh , I'd probably be disappointed they didn't give us the opportunity first up .
But people live and learn Some of the lessons in learner are hard at the start . I bet your wife would argue that you occasionally learn some lessons Daily . Michael's wife's outside . He's very careful what he says . Now , coming back to the industry , you've seen a lot of change . I mean when you did your first systems , were they the one and a ?
half kilowatts . Yeah , we did six panels and an SMA inverter and I think it probably took us about seven hours to do that system . We thought we were on top of the renewable world when we did that .
And now systems . What sizes do you do ? Install now .
Probably around that . Seven or eight is probably an average size system and we'd probably comfortably do that in a day now , Right right .
So basically , the system size has increased , the safety of systems has improved . Any other key changes in the industry ?
I think the fact that with Enphase we've got that monitoring of production consumption , we can always prove that a system's working , but what we've never been able to prove before is what a customer where their extra usage is Right , and I think that is really the holy grail of it all .
So basically somebody goes , I don't know why I got a high electricity bill and you go . Well , you did put a spa in . Yeah , is that what happens ? That's what happens .
Is it mainly spas or air cons or what is it ? And we try and educate and it's all about education . So we're trying to educate the customer that we don't want to give customers .
The feed-in tariffs are gone , so we don't want to be telling people to put a solar system in because your payback's going to be increased because you've got no , you're not going to get any feed-in tariff anymore . Not much , not much . And it's probably getting to the stage they're probably going to start charging you anyhow .
So then you really have to improve the self-consumption .
So we're really improving people about self-consumption . That's the important part of it , and you can't do it unless you get the monitoring right . We're starting to do things .
Things like people with hot waters are putting timers on them now , so the hot waters come on during the day and it's surprising when you go back to people's houses , sort of six , seven months later , that they're actually they are starting to look at those . Enphase has a pretty good app with that .
Actually , most companies have a good app now where you can start doing that .
So nowadays you buy a solar system . In the olden days you got a good feed-in tariff and all that , but those are coming down a lot . How can you explain still to maximise your benefits out of solar ?
I suppose , quite simply , it's really all about self-consumption . So we're telling customers now we want the hot water to be coming on during the middle of the day . You've still got the option to turn it on later if you have to .
If you have guests or more people turn up at the house , things like air conditioning now can come on during the middle of the day . So you're not coming home and you're getting that big spike of electricity at 6 o'clock at night .
What about the spa ?
and the pool pump and stuff like that . Different timers . We can start setting things up to do things like that for them and the monitoring is very easy to start picking up those sort of things as well .
And with modern appliances like washing machine dishwashers , you can even put them on timers to go on when your solar is banging away .
Yeah , and we're starting to see most of those appliances now coming with options where they can actually delay time , delay start as well .
And do you bother explaining that to customers ?
Yeah , that's what it's all about Right right .
So you sit down , you still visit them , et cetera . Well , it sounds like if you go with Xcel Power you get the whole shebang . We try All right . Now , when it comes to solar , we do see a bit of sharks and a bit of cowboys still sometimes in the industry . Have you got them into Womba too ?
Yeah , no , they're there , it's there . The good thing about it is we're going to see that customer in five years' time . The quality companies in Womba are going to get that work in five years' time . The quality companies in Forma are going to get that work in five years' time to replace that system . Anyhow .
You don't think some people are stupid enough to get bitten twice ?
Yeah , mainly doctors , lawyers and solicitors , mate , I can tell you what they're the tight arses , aren't they , the normal people actually get it ? Do they Actually work it out ?
yes , You're not going to get many lawyers and solicitors ringing up for a system now .
Actually you'd be surprised . Accountants are probably the most the tightest people in the probably whole world . Accountants we would probably have more systems on accountants' rooms , homes and buildings than any other occupation . I'd agree . So obviously the numbers must add up for a solicitor , for an accountant to do it .
Okay . So yeah , okay , good Look , accountants actually have a decent reputation . I mean , they have to be decently honest because the numbers have to add up Exactly . So if accountants pick a good quality system , that's maybe a good guidance . Yeah , okay , now Toowoomba itself .
Do you sometimes get these companies coming from Brisbane spooking the very cheap systems and , like locusts , come into town , install 1015 , go away and never to be found ?
Yeah , I think we get a fair share of that , and what happens then when the customer has a problem , we do get those phone calls . You normally find utilities won't connect the system because it's not compliant , right .
And then you're supposed to solve the problem , is it ? And what do you do ?
Well , we're just really too busy . You can't problem , is it ? And what ?
do you do ? Well , we're just really too busy . You can't help , is it ? We can't help . So if you bought a crap system and the company can't actually get it connected because there are deficiencies , even with all the goodwill of Excel Power , you can't help .
No , some situations we do , but we generally just try and you just then we sort of say to the customer how are you going to start dealing with a warranty after that ? Like you're really you're better off going back to your installer and trying to sort it out . Sort it out yourself .
But let's say you get a system like that after four or five years , which was really a budget system .
Yeah .
And then you look at it and you go well , the rails corroded already a lot , the inverter's on bird is on its last leg and the panels have a bit of water ingress . How does a customer react when you say , well , you bought really cheap , now Unfortunately we've got to pull it off . What happens then ?
Poor man pays twice , don't they ? I mean , do they blame you ? No , I think they feel probably a bit embarrassed that they made a poor choice . Poor choice Right . So let's not be negative about solar . I mean , what's the positive about quality solar ?
I think good solar works and it sells on the bills . So have you had particular examples where people walked in , they had a $1,500 bill and they came back and said listen , mate , look at this and it's really much lower .
Yeah , pretty much every Enphase system we've ever done I'd have to say you get that , we get that .
Right , right . So you're actually in some way a saviours in the middle of a cost of living crisis .
Absolutely . There's not too many products an electrician can store in a house where it actually saves you money Right , right , right , or makes you money Right .
Now what would you say if somebody moves into Toowoomba and thinks of solar and solar in a battery , why should they pick Xcel Power ?
I think because we've been around a long time and we intend to be around for a long time .
And what so your after sale is there ? Your answer to the phone , yep . If there's a problem , what happens then ?
We try and be as professional as we can and we try and resolve that issue as best we can .
Well , I would actually , if I'd be a marketing person , I would say , not , we try , we actually do , because if you've got an NCIS system , it's actually pretty easy to fix , isn't it ? Yep ? So you're not just trying , you're doing it , doing it Every day . I've got to think I've got to work for you as your marketing guy .
You're a bit shy , you're doing it , doing it Every day . I've got to think I've got to work for you as your marketing guy . You're a bit shy , we're a bit modest at times . Well , I'm sorry , but nowadays it's all the trumpet-blowing kind of games , isn't it ? That's the times Now .
I'm a customer , I'm looking at solar , but then I think , oh , I'm thinking of getting an EV , maybe down the track , maybe . Oh , I'm thinking of getting an EV , maybe down the track , maybe I should get a battery too . What's the advice now ? Should I go solar or solar and battery ?
We always advise the customer to go solar first . Then we start to revisit that site , probably in six months' time , and we'll just see how their usage is going
¶ Socially Responsible Solar Company Achievements
Right . It's pointless putting a battery on a system if they don't have the excess energy to fill it . That would be a very dishonest marketing approach to someone to upsell them something they're not going to get the benefit of .
So you're not trying to make maximum profit straight away by flocking a battery hard ? Why are you so honest to your customers ? Is it going to cost you money ?
We want to be there for the long term . Oh my God , you're such an old-fashioned bastard , I run into these people when I'm shopping you fashion bastard .
I run into these people when I'm shopping . You don't want to come out and slide your car tire , god Right . So you must have a decent , good reputation in town . Do you with Excel Power , if you do the right thing by customers all the time yeah . I believe we do .
I've tempted you three times to make extra profit , but you still decide on the benefit for the customer . Why you got that attitude ?
I think it's a bit of short-term pain for a lot of long-term gain , Right right , right .
So do you kind of go sometimes to Rotary or to other places and educate people all about solar ?
Yeah , we do solar and battery . We had a list of our customers come through about sort of three or four months ago . We did a big thing on battery , just on education on solar and battery education , where we had Enphase , tesla and Maxi on solar turn up and actually do training for people . So that was quite beneficial .
So , basically , it's important that the customer actually understands all the benefits . You're not just giving them a cookie-cutter approach . You actually want them to understand how to use the solar , how to use the solar , how to use the battery and how it all works . Because what's your attitude ?
A more informed customer actually gets more benefits and makes the right decisions . Right , okay , excellent . Now , when it comes to the whole story , coming back to the battery , still , how is the change of the EV and EVs are coming and smart homes are coming how is solar actually going to change going forward ?
What do you see , I think real estate on a roof is going to be the value of a house . The more solar you can put on it , the more you can supply , the more you can consume . I think that's where the future is going .
So therefore also using a more efficient panel would be important , because you only got a limited house size and you need more electricity for your EV . So from that perspective you would actually look at potentially also looking for good quality , high efficient panels . Is that right , yep ?
Would you agree with the fact that maybe in the olden days the difference in the quality of solar panels was rather quite significant , but now you do get a wider range of decent panels ?
Yeah , I don't think we're going to see the problems we saw with solar panels , as we did sort of 10 years ago . I think that there seems to be a really high standard of solar panels .
They've taken the LG Neon , pulled it apart and now basically you get a copycat over and over out in the system . So panels actually as a whole are pretty good .
Yes , I know we did a job the other day . We put a five kilowatt system on a fire station with LG panels and we actually took them off and reused them in an off-grid situation and those panels were as good as the day we installed them .
Yeah , so if you buy a quality product , you sometimes actually can recycle that product and it's still going to bang away for a long time .
I'd have to honestly say , very few panels that we've ever installed have probably ended up in the bin , apart from the odd hail damage or wind damage from a tree or something like that , or cricket ball .
And that's because in the first place , you bought the better gear . Yeah , do it once . Do it properly . What does make in Australia a good manufacturer that you'd like to buddy up with to install your solar and battery systems ? What are the criteria ?
Someone who has good training , someone who's really passionate about the industry that they're in they're not just there for the sales and someone who just honours their warranty . We have very few warranty claims , but when I do have a problem , I just want it resolved .
Right . So because then that reflects on you and the end customer . So your motto is get a good manufacturer to back me . That way , if the customer has a problem , I'm not going to start telling them stories , I just fix the stuff . Is that your attitude ?
Yep , I remember when we started in solar about 14 years ago we worked for a bloke called Ian Hall . He was one of the pioneers of the industry , worked for Impact Solar on the Sunshine Coast and he said , mick , he said , don't ever trust a company that's not listed on the New York Stock Exchange .
And I pretty much always had it in the back of my mind with any product we've ever done with .
Right . So they're kind of international , they've got a good backup system here , international , they've got a good backup system here and they've got accountability Right and there's something at risk for them as well their brand Got it Okay . Now you do other systems as well . I hear you're quite passionate about off-grid .
Off-grid , I think , is the future , where Excel's probably going at the moment and I reckon we've got a really good system design that we've been experimenting now for about three years . We've got about 60 or 70 of those systems out there in the market .
We've just finished a whole heap with Queensland Fire and Rescue a lot of off-grid systems for their remote fire stations . So reliability is important and we're also doing those same systems up in Timor-Leste to sort of help countries as well .
So , basically , you're now being chosen by the Fire and Rescue to create the off-grid system that backs up their systems , which actually can save lives . Exactly right . That's a pretty good endorsement .
Okay , you're getting a little fire helmet every time you finish a system as a thank you , I actually spent 25 years with the fire service , so I sort of know what they're about .
In a volunteer capacity , in a volunteer capacity and auxiliary so I mean , if I'm into Boomba , I should possibly pick Excel Power just for all the social stuff you do , because you are quite involved in helping other people , isn't it ?
Yeah , I think life's all about giving back , it's not all about take .
But you're not really blowing your trumpet about that kind of stuff . Come on , give me a bit of feedback Only when Marcus wants to do that , when I'm squeezing it out of you . Well , tell me about you going overseas and helping poorer countries with solar , don't you ?
Yeah , we did that . We started about five years ago . We just had a bit of a call , we got five electricians and an accountant and we went over there . Where to Timor-Leste ?
All right , there's a little village in Makata run by four nuns who look after about 16,000 people and you know , to this date there's been no ambulance rampings ever since that's happening .
So you basically take your crew , take solar panels and inverters and stuff out there , Fill a container yep and physically go over there and help them to set up some solar systems in what schools or no , mainly clinics and bir over there and help them to set up some solar systems . In what schools , or no , mainly clinics .
And birthing clinics is probably what we sort of favour to do . Timor-leste now has a one in three chance of a baby dying at birth . Wow , so the clinics that we put power in there . I think since we've done it five , six years ago , I think they've had 177 births in the clinic and actually they've only had one fatality .
So basically , you are now taking your solar knowledge that you get with Xcel Power in Toowoomba . You go to a third world country like Timor-Leste , you install the system on the birthing clinic .
Is that for free or yeah , that's all free and the people who have supported us over time , like LG and Maxion Energy and Power Plus Energy and Enphase AC Solar Warehouse . They don't give it all for they help where they can and that's all that sort of matters .
So then at the end of the day you sit there , you look at your system with your mates . Maybe you have a beer . They must feel very satisfying .
The good judge for me is when we do one of those trips . The blokes sit back and say , mick , this is the best holiday we've ever had .
Wow , and all financed by the people of Toowoomba who used your service in the first place . Pretty much yes . So when they use you as a solar company , there's a social aspect to it that most people are not aware of . Yeah , because you don't tell anybody about it , do you ? You're not bragging about this stuff .
No , you're kind of the quiet achiever of Toowoomba .
is it no-transcript ? Best training and the best backup . All of our systems that we've installed in Timor are all fully monitored . Even though their internet's very poor , we've been able to work out how to get those systems monitored for them , oh wow , wow , wow .
So you're sitting there with the nuns and teaching them how to use Enphase , is it ? Absolutely , oh my God that's so funny . No , I mean look , when I was working with one of the manufacturers and we did donate some panels , I must say , when you sent us the photos of those panels installed , overseas helping the poorer people . It was quite a you know .
It was a good moment , because all day you're in making money this and that and it's nice to see that , as a local company , you actually also have other aspects of your business , which really puts you apart . Yeah .
And I find it good that we've built our company up to such a what I believe is a good standard where we've actually got the ability to give a bit back and actually start making a difference to people's lives Wow . And so now we're now a director of mass electricians , mea Power Up .
So now we've got basically those same electricians have come on board with that and we've actually won a government contract through DFAT and actually doing that same model basically in other villages in Timor-Leste .
Wow . So there's actually other government organisations and electrical organisations who have seen the value in you putting those systems into Timor-Leste and therefore finding that there's something worth supporting . Exactly right .
Well , five brownie points for XL Power to something worth supporting Excellent .
Exactly right . Well , five brownie points for Excel Power to get this started .
Excellent . Yeah , we've got a good team behind us that they contribute a fair bit of their time to helping that sort of stuff as well . So , yeah , it's not just me oh look , he's still so polite .
Your ego isn't really that big , is it ? No , not really , but you're a Queenslander . Yes , when it comes to origin , they scream louder than the .
New South Wales people . I think it's a good game play .
And you're wearing a blue shirt . Yeah , I know , anyway , where were you born ? Toowoomba , oh so you're definitely not New South Wales . No , we've only lived inowoomba , oh so you're definitely not used to that .
No , we only lived in two places all our lives , so we're not going anywhere in a hurry , okay , Now coming back to this industry , are you guys doing other electrical services too , or is it just solar and off-grid ?
Our industry . We're basically still electrical contractors . We still do the general day-to-day electrical sort of stuff .
You can rewire If I'm in Toowoomba .
you can rewire my power points and stuff , rewire houses and all that sort of stuff there . But our favour is really towards that renewable side of things with solar , ev charging , battery backup and that sort of thing .
What about ? Some people move into the whole home electrifications now , whereby they're offering the solar , the battery , the EV charging . They maybe even do heat pumps Yep . Some even go as far as doing the you know , getting out of gas and putting an induction stove in and those kind of things . Yep .
How far have your company opened up to that whole energy electrification game ?
Yeah , pretty much that's what you do , is it ? That's what we do so ?
if you want to get your electricity bill significantly lower , you would actually go there and do an audit of the house and come up with suggestions .
Yeah , pretty much . And that sort of comes when you really sit down with that customer and you just go through the electricity bill , Right , it's surprising how you see some families with five people and they've got electricity consumption of 20 kilowatts
¶ Energy Efficiency and Customer Education
a day . And you go to one person's house and two people live in the house . They're consuming 100 kilowatts a day .
Well , that's because there's two windows open at the back of the air con , and do you then educate those people with 100 kilowatt of how maybe you get that down ?
Yeah , and it's pretty much done . People don't really understand that .
But when you get that monitoring graph and actually show them where they're actually using their power and it's just to explain , it's that easy just to turn something off or maybe use it in on a timer or something like that , right , so it's kind of like you creating an electrification map for people where they actually can see what's going on .
Yeah and that sort of becomes the best way for a , for a consumer , to sort of understand how they can actually start making more money out of their solar or saving more money out of their solar with that .
How do you ensure that a customer will actually get a good install ? Do you use your in-house crew ? Do you have processors ?
All that . We've never used subcontractors as part of our business model . It's always been our own staff and our own training Right , and we always try and own staff and our own training Right and we always try and stick with our high-quality products .
To start with , but I mean , do your in-house staff then ? Do you double-check on sometimes what they're doing , or how do we know that they're doing the right thing ?
I find our staff are really conscious with the work they're doing and if there's any issues , they always sort of bring that back to the office and discuss it . They think they've had a problem with something like that . How do we resolve it ?
Uh , and then it's really , if we can't resolve that , it's really then going back to the manufacturer and sort of saying I think we had a problem with this .
But if you can't experience that , but I mean , what about the shortcuts of you know , running the conduits on the outside of the house because it's quicker and all that do you guys do that ?
no , no , no . You know it's always proud to go back and drive past a house that you did 10 years ago and say that was a job that we did .
You can actually drive through Toowoomba and tell your jobs , can you ? Yes , why do the others look a bit different ?
They look a little bit different , yeah .
Now I hear that you're very passionate about off-grid .
And off-grid .
Really , the responsibility is much higher with you , because if your system doesn't work , people don't have the power . Now you actually use Enphase in the off-grid system . How does that work ?
One of the big failures I find with off-grid is that single point of failure . And one thing by shifting Enphase as our sole supplier .
we don't have that single point of failure anymore , what I'm trying to explain to people . Single point of failure means basically , if you have a string inverter and that string inverter dies , then everything is kaput .
Exactly right and so what end phase , what's different ? So end phase , if we do have a panel failure or one panel becomes shaded or for whatever reason , the rest of that system keeps going . And I've also got that flexibility If customers have got different roofs .
Now some off-grid houses are a little bit sort of smaller than what other houses are we can put panels on different roofs and different angles and orientations .
So , without that single point of failure , you believe for an off-grid is more reliable .
It's certainly a lot more reliable and a lot more safer and plus , it's expandable . Right , we can design an off-grid system smaller and with our system now we can expand the batteries easily . We can extend the solar easily .
Right , I understand some of the solar systems that you've designed and built actually have won awards . Tell me about it .
Yeah , our office is actually with a solar system we designed through the Clean Energy Council as one of their awards , still going today . Actually , I found it .
And what happened there . What did you design and what was special about it ?
I think we we integrated a control panel between the , the inverter and the and the off-grid inverter it was the selectronics and aphronius at the time .
So we introduced a look like a steampunk sort of a assembly with a heap of gauges and all that thing so we can actually monitor and we use that as a training thing today right how people can understand off-grid systems , how they can see the AC coupling work , the DC coupling .
So I mean , Excel Power , therefore , is actually an award-winning installer , but you're not the kind of company who then puts those fleshy little gold stars all over your thing . You're kind of more like the quiet achiever . I can design one of those really big gold stickers and say award-winning . Do you want that ? Do you want to be out there loud and about ?
No , not really . Come on , michael . How are we going to let the people know they're going to get a good install with Excel Power if you don't ramp up your marketing ?
I think when their neighbour tells them how good of a job they've got , or that's good enough . Yeah .
You prefer that word of mouth . You're not the one . You're not into the spooking , are you ? No , oh God , there's no job for me then Word of mouth in Twomba is the best , best recommendation .
Yeah , yeah , okay , now listen , you must have come across that cranky engineer who knows everything better retired by now , or a school teacher , and they want to tell you how to you know , do the job and all that . How do you handle those kind of complaints ? Or smart people ?
How do you handle that ? Basically , just , it's education Right , and especially with , and probably in-phase monitoring is probably one of those things where it just explains everything . In-phase monitoring is probably one of those things where it just explains everything . In-phase becomes a very honest system .
You can start telling how your panels are working , what's performing , what's not performing , how your consumption is and how your production works . So it's a pretty honest . You're not hiding anything when you install an in-phase system .
Right . So then you feel there's this penny drop moment with those type of customers , isn't it , yes , and you win them over , hopefully , yes , got it . But let's say , sometimes somebody might walk in and actually something didn't work out and they have a complaint . How do you handle that ?
Basically , we'll always go back to the monitoring . If it's a production issue or it's a consumption issue , we'll always go back to that monitoring first and that normally resolves most of the issues . Probably the biggest complaint when customers come back . I didn't think I thought I would have got better performance out of my solar system .
So with Enphase because we really were adamant about monitoring all of our systems we can compare a system Because we've got that many in-phase systems installed in our region . We can actually go between suburbs see how systems are working .
And what I find . When people make that complaint , they usually forget that in the meantime the 10-year-old turned into a teenager .
Yeah .
And the little spa that you've installed at the back , where you were told it doesn't use much electricity , is actually becoming an energy vampire . So back where you were told it doesn't use much electricity , is actually becoming an energy vampire . So do you educate people about that , that their own usage got to contribute and work in harmony ?
with the solar yeah , and Enphase with the graphs that they have with there does that very well .
Right . So what customers really have to watch out is , just because you buy solar , you can't just start using electricity like there's no tomorrow . There's still a given amount of electricity you have and you've got to work within your budget . Is that really the case ?
Yeah , but then we get the customers , because they've got solar actually do start consuming more Especially , and we probably find older customers . They want to run that air conditioning a lot more . We're probably an example of that ourselves . You just .
Want that comfort , you want that comfort , you want that comfort . And also , what I'm finding nowadays is because electricity has gone up quite a bit , that little bit of electricity that you use here and there because you're not having the solar on at night , and all that that has gotten more expensive .
So do you then recommend people maybe do get a battery at that point in time . So do you then recommend ? people maybe do get a battery at that point in time . You know , if they have this spare solar and they're not , can't use it all for self-consumption . Does it become then worthwhile sometimes to look at a battery at that moment ?
Yeah , and that's probably the tipping point . When we do find they've got that , they're selling that excess solar back to the grid and they find all of a sudden they're getting nothing for it , and that's what we'll put into that , we , the grid , and they find all of a sudden they're getting nothing for it , and that's we'll put into that , into the .
We'll work out a scenario for using a battery , and sometimes just a relatively small battery , can actually make a big difference , because at night or so you're not using that much . So if you can keep that six , eight , ten kilowatts during the day and put it at night , that can give you a good return ?
yeah , pretty much , and you can always see with the monitoring you'd actually see what their consumption is at nighttime . So it becomes a pretty simple calculation and it's easy to explain that to the customer as well .
Right , right
¶ Future of Solar Power Integration
, right . What can you tell me about the Enphase battery ?
The one thing I do like about the Enphase battery is the expandability of it . Even though it's a small , it's a five kilowatt battery . A lot of customers are starting off with that five kilowatt battery and it's an easy expansion . After that and also back to the same thing . It's no single point of failure . So one battery does fail , which we haven't had yet .
All the other batteries still keep working .
Right . So it's an easy modular approach where you can basically start at a certain size of battery and if your family expands or your electricity is used or you get an EV , you can add more batteries easily . Exactly right . So it's not like that model has now expired and I can't get it anymore , is it ?
Yep , and that's been one quality point of Enphase , right okay got it .
Panel positions is it important or do I just slap them anywhere ?
We've got some really good design software which we always design that for the optimum performance for the customer . But that's one thing about Enphase . We can go back there if people want panels on more different roofs , different orientations . It just works . We've got options for it now .
so but if somebody uses more electricity in the morning , then you would install a few more panels on the east .
Yeah , that's definitely the north facing roof's not that really critical anymore and some customers really think that's where they should be . But when we start looking at their consumption models between , that east and west option is a really good option .
So west would be good in the afternoon when you come home , turn the aircon on and your panel's pointing west and you still get good power . Yeah , Right , right when it comes to off-grid , how long have you been doing it ?
Off-grid . We've been doing now for probably about eight years .
Right . So are there systems that have been installed eight years ago that still work , or they've all been packed up and shipped off into All the ones we've installed are all still going there and we monitor them to the best of our ability .
Some have had change of ownership and little things like that have happened .
So what happens if I have an off-grid system ? The people change ownership . Do then the new people . They become new customers .
Yeah , every job we do , we always have our XL Power sticker on that job .
So we always get that call back .
We always get that call back .
I bought the house and I don't know much about the solar , can you ?
help . Yeah , and we'll often go back out to a customer's house and run through it with them when customer's house and run through it with them .
When you design an off-grid system , do you actually need to put a generator with it , and what's that for ?
A generator is probably the most critical part of an off-grid system , even though we hate burning fossil fuels and all that thing . Example what we had in Toowoomba last week we had four days of just rain , really no sunshine . We find people tend when it's an off-grid thing , if it's raining , they're probably inside doing more work .
Their batteries aren't getting charged , they're consuming more power . So all of a sudden their batteries are starting to get to a critical low .
And then the generator should kick in , shouldn't it ?
And the generator should kick in and then we should go from there . Every question with off-grid , every problem we would have with off-grid would be a generator issue .
Right , what happens ? The petrol gets old in the generator and stuff like that .
We try and program it so our generators with the Victron gear that we use , that that generator at least comes on once a week as a Sunday morning 9 o'clock , we make it run 10 , 15 minutes just to keep the thing serviced and the customer knows that that generator's running .
So you basically are looking out in the way you design the system for pretty well all eventualities in the off-grid .
Yeah , we become their power consumer .
Power stations for fire .
Yeah , we become their Mr Ergon , mr Energex , so that power's got to be on 24-7 for them .
Well , you should charge them triple .
And some people just for cost reason , even though as much as you try and have that discussion of how important a generator is , they've always got a generator in the shed they can come and plug in , but but so they say basically look , I got a generator up the back that I use for other stuff and if I ever get into trouble I'll put it on the back and it
doesn't need to be part of the system design , is it ? And they save themselves themselves that aspect of the cost . That's not what you recommend , is it no ? But I mean , at the end the customer is right , is it Exactly ? And then when the system is down and they call you , then would they say oh , you were right .
Yeah , probably not as simple as that , but Maybe they think . Bloody hell , that guy knew what he was talking about . Off-grid systems only play up on christmas eve and good fridays , so , and when it's raining and the husband's away .
So right and then mike to the rescue . Yes , and you do it happily yeah , it's part of our service . It's what we do , yeah okay , but isn't it sometimes a little bit frustrating with the off-grid or with the sole owner if you say , listen , I'm recommending this and that we've got two choices One is a bit cheaper , one is a bit more .
You know , the more is the better way , but they go in the cheaper option and then later on you get called out to fix exactly what you predicted that would happen . What do you do at that ?
moment . I think , as long as you explain things to the customer what's gone wrong you know there is options .
You can always fix something up after it , even though it's not probably the most economical way at the time , right , but I think it is , and most times we'll come back and we'll probably add more batteries and add more panels to that system down the track .
So just expand it Happy customers spend money Right . Okay , you've been doing a bit of commercial solar too .
Yeah , it's probably not the biggest part of our business , but we've done some quite proud jobs that we've done on commercial buildings .
And the payback on commercial solar is sometimes better than on residential .
Yeah , we did a 50 kilowatt infay system on the Land Rover building at Whipple's in Toowoomba there and the bloke still raves our price , the quality and the savings . He's raves our price , the quality and the savings he's made on that system . Yeah .
So basically , with commercial solar where you use the power during the day be it a mechanic that has the hills and the lifts and all that the payback can be sometimes as little as three to four years . So it makes sense for lots of business to go solar , but they're usually very busy and they don't really have time to think about it .
Yeah , a lot of customers that we talk to about that they don't own that building so they're leasing that building . So it becomes another discussion with the landlord to do it , and we have done that on quite a few . We've had discussions with the actual landlord and he's actually put solar on for them .
So basically , then he can charge them a little bit more rent , but they actually have a significant reduction in their electricity bill , isn't it ?
And a happy tenant and they're more likely to stay in that building longer .
Yes , true , because if they move somewhere else , the electricity bill will be high again . So if you're a landlord in Toowoomba , talk to XL Power to make your tenant happy . Is that the motto ?
It's nothing simpler than that Going forward I mean solar has changed so much over the last 15 years Efficiency of panels , inverter solutions , safety batteries what are going to be the next three to five years bringing us ? Where do you see we're going ?
I can see more smarter use of self-consumption with appliances , with things to start appliances to start talking to batteries .
So it'll become a whole integrated network , is it ?
I can see that being the future of it all , and especially with the EVs getting in with the house now , with actually that , really the integration , integration with the EV and bi-directional charging , I can see that's going to become a big thing .
I mean , I could see a situation where little robo vacuum thing says oh , I got spare electricity from the solar and it starts going off and start doing your house because it's actually knowing I got the spare and I can charge myself later on again .
So we will actually be kind of in the Jetsons times , isn't it , where the whole house , electricity and the solar and the battery will all be just one homogenous thing and even the EV is going to be part of it . Wow , we don't know what we don't know . So there will be lots of things still happening where you go . Oh , I never thought of that .
Yes , interesting . Now I have a lot of choices in Toowoomba . I won't mention some of the competitors , you know , but I think there's more than one good solar company other than Xcel Power in Toowoomba . But why would you give people the top three reasons why I would go with Xcel over anybody else ?
Why would you use Excel and I know you're a very shy kind of guy .
I'm really going to try and get it out of . So let's play the ping pong game .
¶ Quality Solar Solutions With Excel Power
If you use Excel Power , will you get good after-sales service .
Yep , we always guarantee that .
Yeah , if I go with Excel Power , will I actually get a technical solution right at the beginning ? That is one of the best in the industry , with good manufacturers that will back the product and basically I can set and forget .
Yes , all right , with XL Power , do I get actually staff that is well-trained instead of a subbie that just runs in and out and wants to make it the quickest possible way and therefore the conduits are not run ugly over the house and this and that , and therefore you respect the customer's best solution ?
We build a system on quality , not on how long it's going to take . The price we quote for a system is the price a customer gets .
And then you're trying to get the best solution possible within that house . Yes , so that's the thing , isn't it ? That's good reasons . Yeah , well , you're very shy . Michael . You just don't want to blow your trumpet . I'm helping you , no . He's going to complain after the interview that I've been pushing too hard . He likes the soft sell . I don't think , mike .
It's really nice to the interview today about why Excel Power is a great company in Toowoomba , but I've noticed you're kind of rather shy to blow your own trumpet , so you could have never been a good spooker up here in the King's Cross . That business would have gone bust because you just rely on other people to tell each other how good you are .
Yeah , I think reputations .
It's just developed over personal relationships , is it ? So you're not really having the big blow dolls in front of your business doing all that and stuff ? You don't rely on that , you just rely on the customer telling another customer , is it ? Well , that's very old-fashioned it is .
That's trauma for you .
Okay , got it .
Now .
Michael , Excel Power really works very hard on creating excellent off-grid solutions . Have there been kind of days and situations where you really saved the day ?
I remember probably about six months ago we went up to an old farming couple with they weren't that old but they had three young kids , basically at school , and they were pretty much . They had an old system they put in probably 17 years ago . They had a generator that he was turning .
The batteries were just about at the end of life and Betty would turn that generator on seven , eight hours a day just so the kids could have internet at night . The batteries would fail at about sort of eight o'clock at night so they all had to go to bed . They all had to go to bed .
He really just wanted to keep patching that system up and it was a really hard sell . Just do it once , do it properly . We put the system in .
We went back about three weeks later and just sort of went through and checked it all and gave him the manuals on it and he said you just don't believe the difference that's made to our kids' lives , just so they can have lights on at night time and they can use the internet so they can do their study Right , yeah .
That was a good warm feeling , was it ? Yeah , like that was . Just you gave them another $2,000 discount .
And he just sort of said I'm really glad you spent the time educating us and convincing that that was the way to Go forward . That was the way to go forward .
And now it's changed their whole lifestyle .
The wife's got the monitoring on it . She's a teacher at one of the local schools up near Blackbutt and tells the students that this is how their solar works , how much energy is left in their batteries , right , right , but I mean the more important is the kids didn't kind of have to go home .
When it gets dark they go straight to bed . Because the power can't support the family life starts . They actually now have , at night , a family life .
Exactly that's what you gave them .
That's a good one .
Yeah , like quality , electricity just changes lives .
Now , when it comes to your actual own systems that you have installed in Toowoomba , do you sometimes , you know , get called back to a system for an expansion or all that and it's like Going back to a lost old family because the people have recommended 10 other friends to you . Do you get that kind of situation ?
Yeah , that's pretty common .
The only thing that was probably a bit disappointing back in the early days when we were just doing string systems , it was really hard to try and do something , expand on that system , even though we always had the intention of putting that 5-kilowatt inverter in 1-kilowatt panels that we could always come through , and we probably didn't realise the time where solar
panels were going and also they changed regulations on us regularly .
Everything got changed and it sort of yeah , yeah , I mean that's why Enphase is so good , because when they changed the regulations and now you can't have the solution , you thought the flexibility of Enphase usually allows you still to add the extra panel or different panels . So I get it why you love that so much .
But you are known in the industry as the Enphase fanboy because you are so what's the word ? you really know that technology so well that you can really get the best benefit out of it for the customer . So good to be excellent in something very well . That's maybe why you're called Excel Power .
And that's typical . Now that we've never had an Enphase customer , we can't go back and help further , yeah .
And I mean obviously the support from Enphase would be very good to you when you're really being somebody that has been so loyal
¶ Solar System Quality and Customer Care
to the brand . So if you have a problem and Enphase has an issue with one of your customers , you would get very quickly helped , wouldn't you ?
Yeah , they give really good support and , like most companies it's expanding to . They do have their challenges at times , but there's nothing we've never been able to resolve for a customer .
I mean , I like your honesty really , because somebody else in the sales game would have just said Enfe is best , ever , never had a problem . But you actually acknowledge that , even with big companies like that . But you work your way through and you get the solution . Yep , we always get a solution . You know , nowadays my wife does a bit of door knocking .
She's in politics and stuff . And it's surprising really how the whole increases of prices lately has made it tough for many , many families . Solar is probably the only thing you can do if you have a house to really put a big downward pressure on that cost factor .
Do you offer finance also to make it possible for some people who might not be able to afford the whole ?
system . We do do finance . It's something we don't get any kickbacks out of it . We basically just point them to companies like Plenty or those type of companies and really becomes the customer to them .
Has the communication with the finance company . But you can get situations where actually the solar that you get back and the savings pretty well cover the repayments .
Pretty much yep , and it's probably something we don't really sell . That .
Aggressively .
Aggressively as much as we probably could yeah .
But basically the story is , if you do put a soul on finance , if the finance is stretched long enough , then in some instances you can still have a cheaper overall costing because your paybacks for the system is less than what you save on the electricity Exactly . But it does depend on the consumption patterns and all those kind of things .
The sad thing is when we turn up to a system that we didn't do , that was five years ago and the customer's still paying that system off and it's dead , and it's dead , it can't be saved , it can't be saved . It gets really stuck between a rock and a hard place and I feel really sad that they went down that line and made that decision .
They can't contact their installer anymore .
They're still getting hounded by the finance company to get the system paid off and they've got a dead duck on the roof . Yeah , that's cheap solar . That's cheap solar for you . I mean , I think people really got to do their research Just because it says $2,990, .
Who's going to sit on the phone for 25 years waiting for your warranty call when they made 45 bucks on the system , when they made 45 bucks on the system . It's not going to happen . So , people please , when it comes to solar , buy quality . It's got better environmental outcomes , it's got better financial outcomes . And how many years have you watched that now ?
And that's what happens . What ? 15 years yeah , 15 years You've been watching cheap solar die in the ass .
Well , I remember when we started solar , there was a company called Free Solar , I think . They were selling systems for $1 . I think it was with the $8,000 rebate . Yeah well .
I don't think any of those are still working . But it's so terrible for the environment all that stuff going to landfill . Do not buy cheap crap . And even so , those companies are very good at the marketing now . They give you long warranties , they've got a lot of product reviews positive and all that . It's a bunch of garbage .
Go with a local company that gives you local support . That's been around for a long time like Excel Power into . Umba , because that's what's actually going to back you up when you're in trouble . Have you ever had situations with cheap solar systems where the customer had been trying to get the company to come back and that was not successful ?
I always ask them who installed it , as probably the first question , and it's always there's a couple of blokes in a white van and that's all I can remember .
And they don't know their number anymore . And then , basically , and when you go up and look at those system , what's , what's the story ?
It's mainly just cheap products or poor workmanship has probably let them down .
And how do you know what's poor workmanship ? Silicon all over the place , or what ?
Yeah , like inverters falling off the wall . There's panels overhanging roofs . Racking's not secured properly to the roof .
What about the cabling ?
Yeah , well , cabling's just dangling all over the roof . The cheap cable ties have all let go .
I've seen cables actually run in the gutter .
Yeah .
I thought that would do well in the rain .
Or worse you turn up and there's a molten mess on the roof , with the DC isolators caught on fire .
Oh God . So look , if you want a good quality system , if you don't want to be able to sleep well at night and if you want your power bill lower , is it okay to call XL Power ?
Every day .
Do you drive an EV or what's your position on EVs ?
Our goal was probably , by 2025 , 26 , to actually start converting our fleet to EVs . I'm still really waiting for a commercial situation , commercial vehicle where we can sort of do that at this stage .
Right , I mean EVs are coming out in passenger vehicle in big numbers but the commercial range is still very restricted , isn't it ?
I did sign up with Elon for a Cybertruck about four years ago vehicle in big numbers , but the commercial range is still very restricted , isn't it ? I did sign up with Elon for a Cybertruck about four years ago . I paid my $200 deposit for it . I'm still waiting for that to come to fruition .
Well , okay , but you could then use your solar system to power the EVs . So , real passenger EVs . Do you see people now thinking of solar because they bought an EV ?
Yeah , and to lead the example , all of our buildings at work have got enough PV , I believe , to actually charge our vehicles Right , so you could actually now , for passenger vehicles at least , go into an EV and have it literally drive for free Pretty much . So I mean , ev and solar is a perfect marriage .
So if people are thinking of buying an EV , they should ring XLPay or Interwoomba and say listen , how you can get me to free fuel with solar , exactly , and Enphase , yes , not to forget . Not to forget . Well , Michael , I really enjoyed you being here and . I have to actually give you an award or a title .
You've possibly been the most humble , non-self-promoting installer that we had here . That relies on the school teachers and the accountants who get a terrific system out of a solar system put in by XL Power to then recommend it to their friends .
So you're definitely relying on the trust and the word of mouth instead of being there like a gorilla and being in your own chest . So you're very humble , but in some way it's a very charming attribute because it feels so real . You are the genuine installer who really cares for their customer .
I'm going to run you to a course how to rip people off and make more money .
You're possibly not interested .
No , yeah , oh , it's just a single no . Really enjoyed it . So much genuineness , really great . And now I want to teach you a course how to rip people off . I don't even know it myself . Thank you .
Very good .
Thank you , thank you .
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