Daniel McCabe from GI Energy: Ethical Solar Innovations and Transformative Energy Solutions - EP24

Companies that we worked with back then that were installing solar panels were quite difficult to work , with A lot of cowboys around .

Some of the installs that we were inspecting were just dreadful , to be honest , and I learned a lot in that period and spoke to lots of different companies trying to find different people that could work with us , and it was really hard to find somebody reputable . Prices were all over the place .

One guy was charging 10 grand for the same thing , another guy was charging 24 . So while we're doing all this research , as I say , I learned a lot of what not to do .

And fast forward a few years and in 2011 , obviously , gi Energy was born and the core principle of the business was to be very ethical in terms of its approach to dealing with clients and offer them a very good value service not necessarily a cheap service , but a very good value service and make sure that they're really well looked after , and I saw that as a

gap in the market because there wasn't much of that happening back then and I think a reflection of that today is how many companies have been and gone in that relatively short space of time . We're one of the oldest serving solar specific companies in the country now certainly one of the first CEC accredited solar companies in the country .

So that's how I got started and that's how we intend to continue , yeah .

And the future is bright for us , and I think that's just because the whole culture in the company is customer first , not margin first . If you come to one of our management meetings , you won't hear us talk about cost cut and an increase in profits .

You'll hear us talking about ways to innovate , create more savings , create more value for customers , and everybody , right from myself to my business partner , to our general manager , through to the sales staff , the installers everybody buys into that culture and that's why we've been so well-reviewed and been able to , as you say , trade through all those times , and

also , we believe we have a bright future because of that too . So would you get a lot of repeat customers ? Then we do . We get lots of referrals . We're probably not very good at actively pursuing referrals , if I'm honest . We don't have a great referral scheme , but we get a lot naturally , which is a nice way to get them . You don't ?

They feel comfortable coming back to us with questions and queries and then I think once you've there's been some touch points after they've paid their invoice naturally not necessarily related to an issue , but related to just checking in um it's more likely to come up at a dinner party and um you're more likely to get referrals .

So I don't know what we this year . At one point we had almost 40 percent referred business , wow , and for first commercially . Now basically 100 is referred . We do no commercial advertising at all .

And when you believe that and when that's how you operate your business , I think that does set you aside a little bit , certainly for referrals , but also just in the first time anybody picks up the phone to speak to a potential customer . The trade in history obviously is a good USP for us as well .

We were the 57th company to be a CEC approved retailer and number one to 56 . A lot of them are gone now , so that gives us a bit of credibility . We also do a lot of work for publicly listed companies , councils and governments , so we've got some people there on our client list that do a lot of due diligence .

So if you have a commercial or even a residential customer , that's got a few quotes , which is pretty typical now for this industry .

Some people have seven or eight quotes and you're able to say to them don't just look how my mouth moves , look at where my feet have been , and you can give them references from really credible sources that have clearly spent a lot of money on due diligence . I think that makes people feel comfortable . So I think it's trade in history .

It's the customer care and the credible client list , and we can talk about products Honestly . Anyone can install any products now . We don't have exclusive rights to anything innovative . It's more just about the core of the company and the way we look after people .

A lot of people can subconsciously understand whether or not it's sincere , but you can't fake that on a phone call or a sales meeting or an install . You have to mean it and it's . That's the difference .

For commercial customers who have load issues with EVs or air cons , we can install reasonably sophisticated power management systems to help that without increasing capacity from the grid . And then obviously , ev chargers are becoming more popular and things like that .

A quick example is we work with a company on the Gold Coast who just couldn't get any more from the grid and it would have cost them an unreasonable amount of money . It wasn't possible , basically , and they needed air cons for warehousing and for extra office space . So , rather than not have the air cons , we've increased their solar system size .

They've got 200 kilowatts on the roof now and we're probably going to do more and then you install power management and prioritize the load , so you could have I think they had nine air cons and this one ramps down first , then this one , then this one , so you could have the one in the director's office go off last if that's what you wanted , one so you could

have the one in the director's office go off last .

You've got a high-rise building with a thousand people in and now 10% want ev charges just can't happen . So that's where the power management stuff comes in right and we can we'd custom design and build those and um , and then obviously go and install them so have you got electrical qualifications and your staff ?

And obviously there's some places if you go to Cloncurry and Darwin , places like that you get that little bit extra , but that's pretty rare . If you compare Brisbane , queensland generally , to most places in the world , the peak sunshine hours in a day are very , very high and we've got good roofs too . So that's something people don't think about when we .

You know , when you look at roofs in Melbourne , they're typically a bit smaller , lots of terracotta . Brisbane there's a higher concentration of larger tin or tile roofs that you can fit bigger systems on . So Queensland generally and Brisbane is a great spot for good solar production .

But yeah , it can happen , yeah .

We would always touch base with them it would always be the same person that initially spoke to them and basically just make sure that they understand everything , because there's sometimes quite a long period of time from a deposit being taken or an order being signed till that completion of the meter changeover .

So it can be helpful to just rehash things From there . You know we do bill reviews for people all the time . I've obviously been doing this for a while . We get customers that have been installed 10 years ago will email us a bill and say can you just check this ? For me Something doesn't seem right . And the after-sales service is very important .

Commercially it's different Again . It's more important again . So , commercially we don't ever install a panel inverter , send an invoice and never speak to customers again .

We believe we're creating a long-term relationship with a client there Same as homes , but even more so for commercial and we touch base with our commercial clients all the time , make sure their system is correctly maintained . Sometimes we do the maintenance , sometimes we don't .

That's up to them but to make sure that it's working correctly and to make sure that they're aware of any changes that are happening and any innovative technology they might be able to benefit from .

So we see that relationship with commercial customers as very much an ongoing relationship and we see ourselves as an energy management partner for them , not a solar installer . So once that last invoice has been paid , that's definitely not the end of the relationship for us , whether it be a two-kilowatt system on a home or a megawatt system on a roof .

So we get a lot of people contact us just through Google searches or , however , the customer comes through to us with systems that either need to be replaced , repaired . A lot of them replaced , unfortunately Little one-and-a-half kilowatt systems , two kilowatt systems that are no longer either working or working for them in terms of producing enough power .

So , yeah , we do , we get a lot of those , and I think that trend will continue to increase significantly . Unfortunately , there's been a lot of poor quality solar installed and over the years I've learned myself by sometimes choosing in the early days some products that I wish I hadn't as well .

So I'm not sitting here today saying I'm perfect , but we have stood by those issues when they have occurred . Others haven't .

Long story short , we installed a lot of them and there was water ingress issues with basically every panel and they disappeared and the distributor disappeared . So then , obviously , under Australian consumer law and also just from an ethical perspective , you're the one that looks after people and we were a much smaller business then .

So I think the value that the end customer gets out of that education that I paid for that they might not realize with working with someone that's been in the industry for quite a while is ultimately saving them more money and giving them a system that's more reliable .

So it was a horrible time , it was stressful , but we worked through it and there wasn't a customer that missed out , and I'm quite proud of that because , it was difficult and because we didn't have much trade in history then , to be honest , it would have been quite easy to close down and start up again .

That seems to be what a lot of people do here and it's amazing to me that that's legal . I'm not naming companies again , but there was one in Brisbane just recently quite a reputable company from the outside looking in , they went out of business and left a lot of people , a lot of debt there and then opened up with an almost identical name .

I don't know how they're doing now Different ABN . Different ABN . I don't even know if they changed offices so that to me should be criminal , but anyway it's not . But I didn't want to do that . I couldn't sleep well at night .

Basically just that conduit running everywhere on a roof that should have had metal cable tray and it actually would have saved them a lot of money because it was long cable runs but it's not been in long and there's exposed cable everywhere and yeah , they've um , they've drilled straight into a clip lock roof sheet to put saddles . That it's a . It's a mess .

It would have saved them a lot of money , but actually that system it's about 210 kilowatts and I think it's going to have to come down and start again .

There's some hail damage , which is why we're up there , but it's a mess and the owner would have no idea , would they ? He knew it wasn't performing well , but the company that installed it weren't responsive and even after the damage that was caused by storms they didn't want to come out and help to inspect .

And , funnily enough , we had quoted them to install that job originally and we missed out on price . So they're paying twice . I think they are . Yeah , I don't know how that transaction is going to happen in terms of insurance and whatnot , but it's messy and I feel for the guy and hopefully we can help him .

But it's basically all the things that you just mentioned there in jest , and more have been done , and this is a commercial system , so you would expect there should be more compliance checks . A higher level of yeah and a higher level of personnel involved , but unfortunately there isn't .

In fact , it's probably more messy on that end because there's a lot more engineering intricacies that people don't consider . They don't evaluate existing infrastructure properly .

They give just the absolute basic must-have drawings to get approved and then subcontract the work to someone who is basically on their own install them , and it can be very messy , I find it always very difficult when customers give the job to a company and then they subcontract it to one that subcontracts it again and you're five miles removed from actually who you

hired in the first place .

I don't think that there's one way that is necessarily better than the other . I think it has to be managed correctly and the correct quality control needs to be in place before engaging somebody and then also after they're installed for you , and you could argue that there's a lot of benefits there .

One of the things that I often say to people that I really believe is most of the best installers not all most of the best installers work for themselves , because they're typically people that are a little bit more dedicated , don't mind working a bit longer and harder , sometimes have a little bit more passion , and that's why they end up being a contractor in the

first place rather than an employee . So you've just got to find them .

So there's a big difference between going , taking your job to the lowest bidder and just letting them install for you , versus seeking out really good people , doing your due diligence before engaging with them , seeking out really good people , doing your due diligence before engaging with them and doing audits after they've installed for you to make sure that that quality

control is there . And that's our business model . And I would argue until I was blue in the teeth to say this Until you get the color of your T-shirt , basically , yeah . So yeah , what you were suggesting before , that you , there's a chain of contractors involved .

You could lose complete control of the job then , and , um , we would definitely never do that , and most of the guys that install for us now some of them have been installing for us for a decade , um , and they don't typically install for other people either , so , um , so you know the quality , you know how they work and they also know what you expect pretty

much . yeah , yeah , and you do have to find new ones from time to time , of course , because , um , but that's also another , in my opinion , that that's a benefit .

If you had a system installed let's say you're in a slightly rural area and you wanted to use a local guy man in a van type situation which is completely fine , there's nothing wrong with that model there's more of a chance that he would leave town or potentially go out of business or change trades and not have backup support for you .

If we're using a contractor in that rural location and they leave town or go out of business , we're the primary contract holder .

So you've got some security there in layers and we do always make sure that we have install and maintenance independently so that , let's say , that exact situation happens and then the day the next day after that guy leaves town , your system has a failure .

So it's actually your ethics and your willingness to support customer in the long run that makes the difference in the company because there are big companies who just rub their hands and move on .

They'll come through town and they'll do exactly that , they'll install , then they'll go to the next , then the next , then the next , but then they just they have no intention of ever coming back there , whereas if we're installing a rural area , it's our area , for we're not coming and going .

We're installing in a rural area , it's our area , we're not coming and going , we're there for a decade or more . So it's a very different way of doing things , and I don't think there's in terms of employing people as well . I said before , the best installers often work for themselves .

I'm not suggesting that you can't employ and train really good installers either . I just don't think there's necessarily one way is better than the other , and I think sometimes in this industry you're looked upon as a less quality company if you have subcontractors , and I don't think there could be anything further from the truth .

I just think that you have to manage it properly .

What are kind of your golden three , four , five tips to end customers who are now looking at solar , and not just solar only , but even maybe solar and batteries ?

Find a company that you trust , because you can sit there all day long analyzing the different data sheets and technical differences of products and trying to become a solar expert . We see this all the time .

People go so far down the rabbit hole that they get themselves into analysis paralysis it becomes exhausting , it becomes exhausting , it becomes a job , and often they won't do anything and then they'll get their bill and then they'll review it .

Analysis paralysis it becomes exhausting , it becomes exhausting , it becomes a job , and often they won't do anything and then they'll get their bill and then they'll review it .

So if I was giving advice to a very good friend of mine who was looking to just start out in solar , to buy a solar system , and I didn't have a solar company anymore my advice to him would be to get two quotes , maybe three at the most . Don't go and get eight or nine quotes .

Obviously , have a look at the products , do a bit of research , but focus on the company . Find someone that you can trust before you go down the rabbit hole of products . Anyone can install different products . That's not where the value is .

The value is finding someone that's going to look after you from the first point of contact to five years later if you have an issue , 10 years later if you have an issue . So find somebody that you can trust .

I think if someone's saying this is the best panel and they're saying this one's really bad and that invert is really bad , I think as soon as you hear someone that's really slating stuff and pushing their product offering really hard , it's usually because they've got a warehouse full of that type of product and it might be a good product , but it's not one size

fits all . The right panel and inverter is different for every customer , so you should be getting advice . That is , we can talk about products and if you really like something where , you can have it . I'm going to be honest with you about the pros and cons of that panel or inverter . But if , um , if that's what you want , that's what we'll install .

But let's look at the company first and and then if you want to talk about temperature co-efficiency ratings and how many bus bars panels have and the type of cells and all of that stuff , that's fine , we can do that as well . But if you're doing that with three or four different companies or some people seven or eight different companies .

Everyone's just going to be pushing these little unique selling points and you're going to get so confused . So it's bring it back to basics and go back to finding a company that you trust and then ask the right questions to that company and do your research . Don't just take it for granted that they're telling you the truth .

There's an amount of times that we've spoken to people that have had German solar systems installed and they're not , or that have got a warranty that doesn't exist and they've been promised warranties . Just make sure that what you're being told is correct , even if it is somebody that's really likable and that you feel you can trust .

Just take 10 minutes and look up their ABN . Find out if what they're telling you is true . How long they've been around , how long they've been around their accreditation , licensing , all that easy stuff .

Nobody's going to sit on a phone by making 40 bucks profit and waiting 25 years for your phone call Now because solar can return $2,000 or so per year on a residential system .

Even a $2,000 cost difference for better gear only means you're sitting there for one year extra to get your money back and your payback might be going from three and a half years to four years . Four and a half , but why be greedy ? You get a 25-year benefit , waiting one year for the better company and a better system .

So my key advice is do not go for the cheap stuff , because what they've done is they bought fake Google reviews . They're using gear that's crap , but they're building it up as if it's good and when you need help down the track , your system will be down for six months before anybody comes , if anybody comes .

I think we worked out once that , on a 6.6 kilowatt system , by doing some of the things that you mentioned earlier cutting corners on install you could save $600 on an install cost alone , plus GST , and that's just on labour and minor materials that aren't even listed on a quote , Things like circuit breakers cables .

It sounds cheesy but you will pay twice . Do it properly once and it's a much better overall value proposition and investment . And yeah , we get so frustrated with some of the stuff that you're talking about . Yeah , we get so frustrated with some

of the stuff that you're talking about . Obviously , we'll come used to the term the solar coaster now it really is true , and you just feel for customers that get tricked by it because you know they're going to end up paying more in the long run .

It might be because of those peak demand charges . It might be because you buy an electric vehicle . It's an evolving thing . As your family grows or gets smaller , you might need to change things .

Um , that's more important now than ever , because your feed-in tariff is going down and down and down , so you're basically during the day .

So you can install additional technology now that is more intelligent , that will send power where it's needed , when it's's needed , and that is evolving all the time . So that's why it's an ongoing relationship , because you want to be part of that evolution and you want to save more money .

And who knows what energy retailers and wholesalers are going to do in the future . We don't know how those charges are going to . The EV thing is as soon as more people start buying electric vehicles , I don't think general consumers realise how much of a problem that is for Australia .

Everybody's buying bigger air cons every year for a start , but now in the little concentration where I am and then where these other transformers didn't cope , there's probably 10% more people have got electric vehicles . So we had power cuts . I think we're in a very built up suburb about five kilometers from the CBD and we had probably five power cuts .

And when you go on the Energex website for the outage finder it has a little red dot on the outages . I've got some screenshots still on my phone . There was loads of them .

That didn't happen last year but it's going to happen more often because people are going to and the government will push the EV agenda not to get political , but you know they'll subsidize and suggest people go and buy EVs and there's obviously reasons they're doing that , but they're not looking at the bigger picture .

So if everybody tomorrow came home with an EV , what do you think could happen ?

So your pool is not going to not come on , but it's going to come on when it needs to , and that the very last order of priority will come on if there's no solar energy . So it still comes on , things like that . So it's just being more smart with the way that you produce , use and control your energy overheads . Wow .

And that's why it's a long-term relationship .

But I think it will just become almost every system will be installed with batteries and an EV will be a big reason for that .

But by the time you start looking at the EV and the petrol cost and throw that back into the ROI , you actually it's a no-brainer because plus you get the backup , uh support , in case there's a black out or brown out yeah and invite your neighbors over for a cocktail while they're sitting in the dark .

I've got a three-year-old at home so we were able to have lights on and ceiling fans for him and tv . It was just . It was really nice to have that power and um on the app .

It tells you how long you've got if you keep everything on the way it is and you know you could basically just get on with your night and day as you normally would , just without air con .

So I'd seen a lot of stuff in the past and I'd traveled to lots of emerging nations , but Cambodia really struck a chord with me for some reason . The way that the people lived there once you went off the beaten track was quite sad but also quite heartwarming , because they were people that had had the least but wanted to give the most .

Um , and without going too far into the story , I usually ended up knowing a few local people over there , so it wasn't just going to the tourist trap , restaurant kind of thing , we were going into their homes and , um , yeah , they wanted to give the most . They're very warm people and it left an impression on me .

So when I left , I I wanted to create a not-for-profit that would help them in some way , and it got procrastinated a lot . To be honest , it took a long time to do anything about it , because I was trying to create this really big impact organization and that was probably a little bit overwhelming while trying to run a business as well .

So ultimately , what ended up happening was we created the Cambodia not-for-profit within our own business , and what we do there is we supply small solar and battery systems with some basic electrical appliances in homes and then there's local people there that will install them .

So if something goes wrong , they have support on the ground there's , they're trained to install and service . So it's a very small solar system . The homes are , um are very small . It's usually one living area and then two separate rooms that are segregated by a dwarf wall .

It's not , you know , completely secluded , um , they're raised off the ground so if it floods , water can come beneath and that's it . They're very small , probably four meters by four meters , something like that , but um , so they don't need a lot .

But we put a ceiling fan in , mobile phone charger , obviously , battery um , and a light so when kids come home they can do homework under a light and a fan . Parents can charge a mobile phone , which is massive because you can connect there . You can get 4g probably 5g now , so we work directly with a charity there called vbc .

That's how the partnership works . I've been over there myself and built the homes that I'm talking about , that I know them very well and it's our little way of giving something back . So when , depending on how we're structuring things , I think this year we've done 40 homes , so that makes a big impact on people's lives Now they can .

It helps with sanitation as well , so that it makes them healthier , and it's actually quite cost-effective to do . We can power a home in Cambodia for $270 , which , when you think about that , that's not a lot of money .

You know , I've had situations where somebody was sold maybe a $5,000 system for $20,000 and you feel you can't even tell them because they still believe it was German this and German that , and no , it wasn't , but it had a German sounding name .

It's , unfortunately usually people that are a bit more vulnerable for one reason or another , not to pigeonhole , but it could be an older person , a single person , something , something like that , someone that's been probably targeted , and they'll phone or they'll come in to the office or they'll make contact with us and they'll say I bought a solar system and I've

just got my bill and it's really high , I don't know why . And I bought the best gear . I bought German panels , german inverter , but I've rang the people that installed it for me and there's no answer . Or , even worse , I've rang them and they've said they're coming and they haven't .

And I've rang them again and often you can hear in their voice that they're stressed about it . And then when you do the research into what they've got installed , it's usually not a German solar system and often they have paid a lot of money for it and sometimes it has to come down .

So we're not kind of picking a particular company , but German was usually , in the olden days , especially the top of the range , and so some manufacturers decided to put German names on their product to indicate it was German when it wasn't . That's what we're talking about .

But you're right , there's nothing wrong with Chinese equipment . Most of the stuff that is in your home now comes from China , and the iPhone is a great example . We're talking electrical gear . Electrical gear and not even just electrical , but yeah , most things are Actually true , your plastic buckets , anything you buy from Bunnings .

Pretty well , yeah , yeah , yeah I mean , I don't know what the percentage would be , but I'd say if you walk through a Bunnings store , 70% , 80% of what you buy has probably come from a factory in China , and there's a very good percentage of that . That's really good .

But the difference is , if something comes from China , you tell someone that's where it comes from and you explain to them that there's a difference between a good quality product and a poor quality product from that country . But under these circumstances , when that customer contacts you , often they've been told it is from .

And Germany is an easy one because , as you said , germany has always been associated with precision , engineering and quality workmanship . So people have leaned on that and even now you get German engineered products . What does that really mean ? There's one engineer in Germany and then a factory with 30,000 people in China . So you have to be careful .

And that person's obviously been told you're paying for the best . Now their system's failed and sometimes they are a more vulnerable person and it's horrible , it's really person . And um , it's horrible , it's really horrible . But um , it's too late . All you can do is break the news gently to them . I mean , yeah , I don't know .

You certainly wouldn't tell them that they'd been conned , or you'd break it gently and explain to them that it's probably not what you thought on your roof . Unfortunately , these things happen . The best way to get around this and move forward from here is this .

If you're just amongst friends , family or a gathering with people that are not industry related , everyone's got a story about a friend or themselves that has been either ripped off or hard done by or had a solar system . But everybody knows someone . So I feel like it's probably comes back to that low barrier to entry to this industry .

It's very easy for someone to become a solar company . All you need is a mobile phone and really that's it .

Yes , of course You've got to have the right number of inspectors available to service the industry yeah . But if you have an independent party afterwards , come through to audit it . It does weed out a lot of the stuff , yeah .

Or alternatively , you pick a company that has been around for a while , that doesn't sell it to you for $199 and doesn't focus all on price and basically talks about the after-sales service . The long journey together .

Because , what you do not want is what I call a puzzle solar system where four different companies tweaked on it over its emergence and it's still not working properly . You want one company , one with quality control , to do the system properly and plan that system already for the future . Yes , 100% , when you compare Australia to other countries like the UK .

And all that because of our sunshine and maybe because we still have people who want to work hard . Are we maybe luckier with solar and batteries than other countries ?

Here we're still getting STC rebates that cover a significant portion of the cost of your solar system . I don't believe you get that in New Zealand or you don't get it in England . So not only do we have the perfect climate , but we do have a supportive government with the STC rebate , which is paying for a significant portion of your solar system .

The return on investment is phenomenal . I don't know if your audience is investing in other things or not , but if you can get a 20% return on a very secure investment , that's phenomenal and that's what solar gives you . And you don't have to be Warren Buffett to pick it . You don't have to value a company . You don't have to take a risk like that .

You just have to make sure that you're installing it properly and paying for a good quality install , and you will get those returns .

Pre-solar install we can get return on investments 1.8 years at some times . In fact , if you're doing that's amazing , it's phenomenal , and you just have to be a little bit smarter how you structure it .

And also they want to use electricity a lot during the day .

You can do a PPA where it literally will cost you nothing . Power purchase agreement . Power purchase agreement your maintenance is all built in and if something goes wrong with your solar system , you're not charged because it's not producing energy .

I'll buy you a slab of beer and it doesn't have to . It can be a much lower rate per kilowatt hour with zero risk because you're not paying if it doesn't work . You're paying per kilowatt hour now and you're paying the retailer X amount than you're paying the PPA less .

And you can even put things in place that say , if that retailer rate drops below your PPA rate , we will guarantee that we'll drop it by 10% .

So I just want to simplify it really that there's power purchase agreement , which means that the solar system gets actually supplied by the company with finance attached , and then you pay only every time you use the electricity and you have a lower rate than what you normally pay .

I have a huge passion for solar and obviously learning everything there is that's constantly evolving , so definitely one of those topics that week to week there's something that changes that you want to keep your finger on the pulse for sure .

So absolutely it saves you money . What we pay for power has increased over the past few years Markly in southeast Queensland 30% , 40% for a lot of people . We're obviously always blessed with quite cheap rates for power compared to other places in the country . So I guess that question gets banded around a little bit because of reduced feeding tariffs .

That tends to be what it's associated with and obviously some of the other things going on in the media at the moment with sort of a sun tax or something else . We won't get into that , marcus , I know you like to talk about that somewhere else , but solar absolutely saves you money because we're probably using more power than we were previously .

Absolutely saves you money because we're probably using more power than we were previously . So , whether that be hot water heating , cooling pool , ev , obviously electric vehicles coming into the mix now . So where you may not see a huge saving on the feed-in tariff side . It's all about how you consume your power .

So for us , a huge thing that we want to do is educate our clients into self-consumption . So , whether that be with monitoring and diversion tools something like that or storage , your return on solar could be three or four years with quality solar .

We're not talking like cheap off the shelf cookie cutter systems like this is systems that are built to last for 20-25 years . If you're getting a 25% return on your investment , there's nowhere else that you can find that realistically , and if you can reach out to us even just give us a call about that , we don't need to talk about solar .

So if there is that , we're always happy to hear it . But I think , more so than ever , solar can save us money . It's just about having a company to educate you on how to use it correctly , because so many people have it now , but I still find they don't have the knowledge of how to get the best out of it .

You speak to people at you know what I mean at a barbecue or at the gym or something like that . Have solo that tell you that I don't think it's working for me , or maybe it's not saving me enough money , and what I tend to find is that they've just never been educated on how to use their power properly .

Their hot water is still on a controlled load tariff , or they're running their dishwasher at night , or something like that , something that could be so minor . Pool pump , pool pump yeah , exactly .

Because if you're a retired person and you're home in the day and you're able to do all your washing and your heating and your cooling in the day , in that instance solar only is going to save a huge amount of money .

If you're out all day and you come home at five o'clock , the air con goes on , the oven goes on , you charge your car , whatever else it may be , and all your power is used at night . Obviously quite a generic example there , but then obviously there's , there's value to be had in the , in the battery as well , so it may be there .

We just want to understand what our clients needs are . So just taking the time to ask them what , what are they thinking of a battery ? Is it for self-consumption , saving money ? Is it for power outages ? That's been a huge topic , excuse me , obviously with weather that we've had over the past sort of six to 12 months .

So if you're dealing with the right company that you're speaking to that actually understands and you're able to take the time to understand what their needs are and how they use their power . We can give you that , that advice to say , okay , maybe just start with solar for now . Let's understand how you use your power .

You've got full monitoring with your system so we can then see , okay , you're generating this much power , you're . This is how much you're consuming day and night , and then present the value proposition of okay , if we add a battery into the mix after 12 months , so go winter and summer , obviously varying output in terms of solar generation then we can .

Okay , so this is what a battery will actually do for you . Um , but really it's all about for us . I think it's under understanding . Your clients needs asking the right questions to see what they want to do , because I think there's still a bit of a misconception on how solar will work .

Some people are waiting for storage to actually think until storage is whatever price it needs to be for them , they'll hold off on solar , whereas in that interim time , solar could have saved them a fortune because they can offset their pool , pump their hot water , they can cool their house down , pre-cool it down while they're at work , whatever else it may be .

So there's no right or wrong way to do it . It's just about understanding what the pros and cons of each option are and ultimately the budget that the client has assigned for it as well . Obviously , the storage will add a little bit more to the overall equation , but the benefit could be huge there from having storage with the system .

So we don't actively push batteries or storage on our clients or anybody else . We just want to understand what the right solution is for them , because we tailor each system to our clients .

Right now , the technology is there . It's mature . You will save with a solar-owned battery . Yes , it might take you one or two years longer to get your money back , but your comfort level is straightaway increased because you've got your blackout protection . You might buy an EV in a few years' time . You've got the battery there to help charge the EV .

Doesn't the battery and solar really make a lot of sense straightaway now ?

The is their thought , their initial thought , for , okay , I'm going to install a 10 kilowatt system , whatever it may be that they come into it before actually understanding what they , what they need .

So everything that you've said in terms of yeah , it gives you that blackout protection , it gives you that warm , fuzzy feeling that you can look at your app at 7 pm or 5 pm in Brisbane because it gets dark early , and say , okay , I'm now running off my battery , only I'm pulling no power from the grid . It's quite a… .

We're not going to try and ram one solution down your throat . It's actually the right answer , Thank you .

You have a system large enough to generate what you need and fill a battery . And that may not be possible seasonally or on a weekend compared to the weekday , but to have a few extra panels to have that ability to generate a little bit more power whether that be for storage could be for an electric vehicle we're only going to continue to use more power .

So our advice would always be look , do it right , do it once If you're able to get a little bit of a larger system . I've never , ever known anyone say I wish I'd get less solar , but we do get some phone calls to say can I add more solar ?

And it's not always that simple because most likely they've maxed out the inverter for STCs , for potentially , obviously , the parameters of the inverter as well , or they've run out of roof space . So I would always say look , fill the usable roof space with the budget that you have available and look if a battery could squeeze into there as well . Why not ?

Because , yeah , the return is excellent now and there's other ways that you can obviously supplement that too that are obviously becoming more mainstream . Plus , you get the blackout protection . That's a quick story there . I had a client over over the uh over the christmas break .

Um , that was in tambourine , so a little bit rural maybe like 40 minutes out from the gold coast and um , there was a storm that went through on christmas night to boxing day , real one of the craziest thunderstorms I've lived here for 15 years and one of the craziest thunderstorms I can recall and this particular home was without power for three weeks .

Yep , luckily , prior to that we'd installed a 15 kilowatt system , fronius Symo Gen24 inverter with two full stacks of byd storage , so 44 kilowatt hours of storage , and I've got a message from this gentleman on boxing day to say hey , mate , merry , christmas , power went out yesterday , as you probably assume . Just so you know , I've got my aircon running .

Have a look at my monitoring when you get a chance . Really , really good guy . Like I spoke to him many times since the installation and um three come three weeks later , come three weeks later . Obviously we had a had a break for Christmas as , as um as anyone would have come back into work , the power's still out .

So in that area , um , a lot of the lines were down . So obviously Energex would come in around to to fix everything . And I was going on his monitoring and I was just like this guy's , just using power as if it's normal , normal operation .

So he's still obviously able to generate 50 , 60 , 70 kilowatt hours because he's got a large solar array but he's running his air con , he's running whatever else that he plans to do and um come back to being in the office and I'll give him a call and he's just over the moon that he did this because from the outset , 44 kilowatt hours of storage is large

Some may say excessive but he had prepped with this in mind because of where he lives , and ultimately that then became to him invaluable . And it may be be and it is obviously a decent upfront investment , but for him in that instance to put the price on having the ability to have no power but still run aircon , it's pretty , it's pretty , it's pretty cool .

What do you advise to customers that have an older style solar system ?

So if they're installed up to sort of mid-2012 , they'd still be receiving 44 cent feeding plus their retailer feeding . So initially , we want to understand if the system's still operating . So more often than not , what I would say you tend to find in that it may not be operating , there's an issue with the inverter or the panel or possibly the installation .

So again , we want to understand the reason for the potential adjustment of system size or addition of storage firstly , then understand how that system is operating , because if they're looking to add storage , it's very unlikely they'd have sufficient excess power to fill that battery , particularly if you're doing a retrofit , in our case of a Tesla .

So Tesla power was 13 and a half kilowatt hours , and if you've got a 1.5 or a 2 or even a 3 , you'd be lucky to produce 13 and a half kilowatt hours in total , let alone what you've then consumed .

So if you've got your hot water , your pool , whatever else may be in your home , your air con , very unlikely you've got anything left to fill a battery firstly . So it's then about having that conversation to understand okay , you've got a three kilowatt system . Just as an example , you're feeding in two kilowatt hours a day .

Yes , you might be on the legacy feeding tariff , but now you're using 40 . You're purchasing 40 from the grid , so 40 kilowatt hours a day . If you then put on a much larger system with storage , it's tailored then to how you use your power now . So again , I just bring it back to understanding what their goal is here .

The panels may be 190 , 200 watts , 230 watts , which now obviously we're talking about double that power class . So in terms of power class per square meter of roof space , obviously now we can fit on a much larger system .

I put a six and a half kilowatt system in at the time , pretty quickly realized I'd need more , as we were obviously doing other bits and pieces to the home , and I've put a second system on .

We're now , seven years later , I'm thinking about taking off the six kilowatt system because we've got storage , we've got an ev , we've put in ducted air con , so heating and cooling I'm now even thinking is that six kilowatt system worth taking off because I can fit another 10 , 11 kilowatts in its place , and that's with some great gear .

Like I've got obviously pretty picky with what I put on my own roof , just like what we install .

So if I'm doing that experiment myself , even with a six kilowatt system , when we do it with a 1.5 or a two or a three or whatever it may be , it's almost certainly worthwhile starting fresh because there'll be some point of that initial existing installation that isn't up to current standards .

The warranty probably isn't in place and it now makes financial sense to start fresh and look . I'm not a fan of taking off systems that are working absolutely not . But if there's a way of obviously providing a benefit to that end user where they can save money and that's what they want to do , why not ?

So half the time you don't even know how the system's going . All you've got to go off is a screen that's faded , and then you're looking at a power bill for , okay , they've sent back X amount of kilowatt hours . I did this for an elderly neighbor of mine a couple of weeks ago as well .

I've got too many personal stories here but she was trying to understand how it's working and she didn't know that I did solar and she paid for someone to come out and they told her to clean her panels and obviously the next bill came . Nothing had changed . It's just an old system .

And because we've done this for so long and with some of the brands that we use , when they search those brands or they're in that area , they find us and , yeah , some of the pricing and some of the things that you see is just appalling .

Which one you want to , yeah , um , but when they overpriced really , really low , low-end gear , I think that's what really gets my backup still after doing this for so long , because , as I said before , it tends to be a certain demographic that would be preyed upon for that , because they think they're an easy target or whatever it may be , and it can be in

metro areas , but also can be in those rural areas where they just roll through door , knock telemarket , just hit and run .

So to overprice something and promise the world and not deliver , that's pretty , it's pretty enraging , to be honest , and I think that's getting slightly less prevalent , I would say , because , obviously , now there's so much information out there , it's obviously sold under high pressure tactics that could force people to make a very fast decision without taking that time

to obviously look at the company and the history . So it definitely still happens , and we probably get a call a week or a fortnight from someone getting that second opinion , which is great when you can obviously save them .

What tends to happen with that , though , is then they're just not trusting of anyone , because , obviously , if you explain the situation of what's occurred , you provide a fair price and then they're just all over the place , which is understandable as well when that's occurred , whereas the cowboys at the other end of the industry have obviously been prevalent for many ,

many years , and Australia has an insatiable appetite for cheap solar . There's so much of it in this industry . Everyone knows somebody that's purchased a solar system be it a friend or a neighbor or a colleague where they haven't got what they thought they would out of the system , what they were promised .

They thought they were buying German , munsterland or Hanover panels all those old brands that you no doubt remember as well and it was just a very , very cheap Chinese panel , and that's not to align any view on .

There's some great products from China awesome products , a lot of the ones that we install are made in China , but just be honest about where they're from . There's no reason to make that up , because half the things that we purchase come from there , and it's again I use the word enraging for the solar sharks .

Three months later , look at this offer . Now I've checked the company out . They've got really , really good reviews . Yes , they have 699 five-star review , not a single four-star . Did you think they maybe purchased them out of India and they're all fake and you kind of . So I kind of he's still in this eternal hope that one day he'll find a $2,999 .

But there's a reason for that and you've just got to scratch the surface a little bit more . That , and you've just got to scratch the surface a little bit more . And , as you said , you see those 699 or however many thousand positive reviews , there has to be a negative review .

Every company , even the best company in the world , would have a negative review , and really that's what I personally think is how you weed companies out , because there's always going to be little hiccups and little issues , but really that's where you can find out the true ethos of that company with how they fix things , or even just reading the response to that

review as well , if it's a cheap company .

So I guess , bringing it back to that initially large company , they've been testing panels extensively in Australia for many years as well , and the Alpha panel , which is their flagship panel , that they've obviously been running for quite a while now . The performance in that monitoring data that we have is exceptional .

I've got a brand that I think I may have briefly suggested no longer services the market here , which is we're always of perceived equivalent quality , let's say , but at the moment REC is , if somebody asks us for the absolute best panel quality , that's what we provide .

Again , bringing it back to because we have the beauty of this monitoring data , we can see how they perform . So if we install a Trina panel versus XYZ panel in the same suburb , same orientation , we can actually see how the performance is .

So I think , given their time in the industry over here and some of the people that actually install that panel , so some of the large clients that do their due diligence and choose Trina , they get used to a lot of large commercials too , isn't it ? Absolutely . Yeah .

So a couple of big brands I don't know if you can name names , but there's quite a lot of very , very well-known brands that install Trina , so they've obviously done their due diligence as well . So for us that speaks volumes . But it's just a really , really well-performing panel at a great price .

So if someone is inquiring and value for money is really important to them , that's the panel that we , nine times out of ten , will end up putting on their roof .

Installed literally thousands of systems , convinced me today that after sales is their one priority , and you've got a very nice looking and friendly team that's managing it . So thank you so much for coming , matt . Thanks , Matt .