¶ Empowering Women in Energy Finance
Hi everybody . I'm really proud today because we have a special talent in our podcast , catherine McConnell . Get that right from Bright . And Catherine is really , within this solar battery energy industry , very special because she started literally with an idea and she succeeded .
She pulled it through and I think she's got over $2 billion now already in approved loans out there , mainly for energy . So that's a big achievement . And in this industry it's really hard to find women actually we're trying to find installer women battery installer women very hard .
So it's great to see somebody leading a company in the energy space and we get a bit of balance . How did it all happen ? I know you started at Macquarie Bank so you knew finance , but how did you wake up one day and decided to do something different ?
Well , Marcus , it's nine years this month that I've been at Pride . Wow , yeah . So time flies when you're having fun , doesn't ?
it Because I remember right at the beginning yeah , oh , so time flies when you're having fun , doesn't it ? Because I remember right at the beginning . Yeah , oh gee , is this nine years is ? It . I know yeah they do say overnight success takes about ten A hundred percent .
So you know so , maybe ten years ago I was still at Macquarie Bank and I was working in the energy financing , energy leasing side of the business , and I'd been there for about five or six years , and so I was working in the industry . Effectively it was working with , you know so , solar retailers small , medium and larger size .
And it was while I was there that I identified that there was some parts of the industry that bigger banks would not be able to support , and specifically the parts of the industry were bigger banks would not be able to support , and specifically the parts of the industry were the small scale solar retailers and we were not able to give them a finance product at
the point of sale . They were too risky . You know , the bigger banks didn't want to get involved at the point of sale with offering credit products , and so for me that was a real problem , because I saw that was the opportunity , that was the problem that you needed to solve .
If those solar retailers didn't have finance at the point of sale , they wouldn't be able to sell the equipment . You know , that biggest barrier wouldn't be removed . And so I just felt that that problem got too big .
That problem was too real and I had such a big belief that it wouldn't just be solar , it'd be other types of energy equipment and that needed to be solved , and I had a way and a vision for how you could solve that . And that was starting bright .
Because I mean , nowadays , when somebody electrifies the home , it's not just a quick solar system for five , six grand , it can be the battery , it can be the EV charger . So we easily can look at $20,000 , $30,000 and not many people have them just laying around , is it ?
A hundred percent . You can actually look at up to $55,000 . And when Saw Griffith Rewiring Australia has done work on this you know they're looking at an approximate $55,000 home electrification package to fully electrify a home . So when you think about it , people pay less than that for a car and the majority of cars in Australia are financed .
So households naturally for two reasons naturally think of this class of equipment as being financed . Firstly , because it's too large . It's very comfortable , something they're very comfortable financing and they do that with similar priced equipment in their home . But the second part of it is energy equipment suits finance .
It's made for finance and I was thinking about this it's like burger and fries , it's like Victoria Beckham and David Beckham , it's like Bonnie and Clyde bunnings and sausage sizzle . Energy equipment needs finance and why it does is it's different to every other type of equipment .
Energy equipment needs finance and why it does is it's different to every other type of equipment .
Energy equipment when you sell solar , when you sell a battery , you're asking for a copy of someone's energy bill and you're making the sale by telling them you're going to save money because you're going to be generating your own energy and naturally then people start to say you know so , over time , every month you're going to start to save $50 .
And so naturally what people want to start to think about is well , how do I pay nothing upfront ? How do I align my savings with the repayment ? And finance is just brought into the equation . You know it's the way that you can make a sale where there's zero down , nothing to pay today .
Align your savings with your repayments such that over time it can be just like an investment decision . It really suits finance .
So basically , the higher the electricity bills go , the more you can save than with solar batteries , all the items , and then you can be in a position where , instead of paying the money to the energy retailer , you actually put that same money towards eventually owning the solar system .
Well , actually , you can make it an investment decision from day one .
Right .
So if you have a term a repayment term that allows your repayments to be less per month than the amount of savings that you're making per month from generating or storing your own energy , you're actually cash flow positive from day one Straight away .
That makes sense . That makes sense . But you do have to own a house for that .
Well , actually we do finance renters , so we do landlords , we do strata , we do small businesses . However , what we find is that it's not usual for someone who is not owning a home to attach something to their home so attaching , you know , $10,000 of solar or $10,000 battery if you don't have a long-term ownership in that property .
It doesn't really make sense why you would be a renter and attach something to the building of such high value .
Well . But if I'm a landlord and luckily for landlords at the moment there's a rental shortage , but things do go in swings and roundabouts If I would put solar on my house for my tenant , I will make the home more attractive in the rental market . And would you , for example , finance a landlord to put a solar system on ?
100% . We do finance landlords and it can be shown that household values , the capital price of a property , can increase with energy upgrades . So we have some different research on that , but it's still not very common for landlords to make that type of capital upgrade today , when the beneficiary of the energy savings would be the tenant .
But you could actually charge a little bit extra rent on the solar , maybe still give the tenant a benefit for cheaper electricity . Let's say they save $100 every two or three weeks and if you charge 30 bucks extra a week for the rent then you still both win .
So I think some landlords , you know , if you end up at the pearly gates they ask you what's the good stuff you did ? Oh , I put solar on the house for my tenant , you know , gives you a brownie point .
Yeah , there are definitely government programs that are coming out that are incentivising landlords to put you know energy upgrades on properties that they own . So , some of the different state government programs are looking at that Now you've basically learned the hard way , really the whole solar coaster journey .
I mean you've been there for nine years . You've certainly learned a lot things you probably never worried about . Inverters and panels and all these things you've learned about Are you kind of looking at maybe using that for the benefit of the whole industry ? Is there something you're planning down the track ?
Yeah , 100% . So the finance products that we've created at Bright . We don't go direct to a customer or an equipment buyer with those products .
You know , as I mentioned , we work with the industry , the equipment retail industry and so we have really deep relationships with over 2,600 of these companies around the country and we've been working with them , you know , over the last eight or nine years to understand how we can help them grow their business , how we can help them increase their sales , and
finance is absolutely one of the biggest ways , and we've learnt a lot about this industry , and so what I'm really excited to do is , in a deep way , look at how I can represent them and how I can understand , you know , what other problems they're facing and how we can reduce those bottlenecks .
And the biggest opportunity in front of me that I see is to nominate for the CEC board and to be in a position , in a more formal position , where I can advocate for this industry .
Right , so you want to apply to be one of the candidates for the board for the Clean Energy Council ? What are you bringing to the job ?
Well , marcus , there's a few things . So one is for about five years I've been a director on the Australian Finance Industry Association , so I'm a deputy chair there , and so I have had a wonderful experience being on the board of an industry association .
So that particularly represents non-bank lenders , and I can see the huge power that you can have when an industry is represented by an industry association .
So it's not just an individual organisation that's trying to advocate for their interests and for their customers' interests , but grouping together , there's so much more power to be able to accelerate an industry , and so I have experience in operating in industry associations .
I have a really big belief in the value that they can provide to an industry , in driving policy , in driving , you know , appropriate regulatory settings and really accelerating different incentives that can be there to support an industry . So Can I just stop with there , bud .
I mean the Clean Energy Council in the past is not really known as the industry that has been out there banging away for the little installer companies . I mean they've been . You know , the big end of town was always represented .
And then everybody who stands for the board says , oh , I'm going to represent the small guys , but the small guys often don't vote that much and then the big guys still come in . How do you going to overcome that ?
¶ Clean Energy Advocacy and Industry Impact
Yeah . So the Clean Energy Council historically has been involved . They used to have that wonderful household guide to solar . They still have the net CC , they still have the product guides or the approved product lists for different equipment and they have a really wonderful and extensive team that develops policy .
They have great relationships with government , different regulators , and so they're very well positioned to be able to influence policy . And I believe they have a desire to grow their interest and advocacy in representing households and also smaller end of town .
And I think that , yes , their focus currently , when you look at their strategic objectives and outcomes , is primarily focused on utility and larger scale , particularly wind , but there is a desire from Kane and others to also support households , household electrification and smaller scale .
And you believe you can bring some aspect to it that others maybe don't necessarily have , is it ?
Yeah , 100% . I think . It's my experience in industry associations , it's the hands-on relationship we have with the network .
Historically , for example , there was an issue when the NETCC was being introduced , and early on one of the draft versions of that policy actually had a ban on 0% interest finance specifically for solar and energy equipment sales , and that would have been detrimental for the industry .
You know , 90% of our sales are actually the 0% interest payment plan , and the retailers that we work with you know that gives them the ability to convert sales at the point of sale and just remove those upfront cost and friction for their customers .
It would have been detrimental had that have been removed , and so we were able to represent our vendors , the retailers . We did a lot of advocacy , we did a lot of policy work , we worked with the CEC and others in the industry , and the final outcome of the draft has that removed .
And so that's just one example of how we've been able to support an industry , and I think it's so important that when things like this pop up , we're there to be able to say , no , that's not going to work . We see , you know , we see the equipment retailers on the ground . We know how their business operates . That proposal will not work .
It will be detrimental to the industry .
I sometimes watch the Voice and there's always the good judge and the bad judge and the boring judge and the good-looking judge . If you're on the CC board , who are you ?
Maybe I'll be the annoying judge , actually . So I think , after nine years of running my own business , I just don't need to be polite anymore . If something's not working , you need to speak out , you need to say something . You can't just sit there and be nice . You know , you just can't do it .
And also , if it's not going to work for the network of equipment retailers , it's then going to have a detrimental effect on my business . This is my business . It's like my third child . Why would I let that happen ? Why would I let someone do that ?
Like I said , we're intrinsically connected , like David and Beckham , like Bonnie and Clyde , like the installer network and Bright are intrinsically connected . Why would I let someone damage that industry or do a policy change that would have a detrimental impact ?
So I'm absolutely there to advocate for them and I have no qualms in speaking out and I have absolute passion . I've worked in the government for a few years . I really understand policy and I'm interested in it and have a really big desire to make sure we have the right policy settings that can accelerate this industry .
Okay , I'm going to put a bit of a challenge out to you . We all love the New South Wales battery rebate if they now help selling more batteries , but the way it was implemented could have really been done , maybe a little bit better . What advice would you give to a minister ?
I think before you make a policy announcement you have to think about the impact of the industry with the proposed launch date .
And there's so much history that if you announce a program and then six months or so later is the launch date , you have to be aware that it's absolutely going to have a consequence or an impact on sales in the lead up to the launch and you know that's detrimental to small businesses across New South Wales .
So I think that the timing of the launch , the timing of the announcement , I think you have to be much more careful around that , but closer together , maybe Closer together and potentially think about some type of backdating of you know , from launch to be able to deal with , you know , three months prior sales to facilitate an industry and also just be a bit more
prepared . And when you make the launch , I think you have to have a lot more understanding of how that program is going to work .
Well , that convinces me you really do understand the industry .
Yeah , there's so many , you know there's so many things you have to work through there , but I think the intentions right . I think that Australia and New South Wales should be the leader in batteries . You know , as you know , globally per capita we are still the leader in household solar installations , but we are not for batteries , and that's wrong .
We should have naturally have moved from being a household leader to a battery leader , and so these incentives are needed . They needed to bring down the upfront costs . They needed to bring down , like that , payback . But I think that you know it's just another example of why you need people to represent an industry .
You need people , you need someone to represent the thousands of equipment retailers to be able to explain you know , the nuanced impact of policy announcements .
Now I got I don't know six CC board votes that I can throw about . I'm just I'm talking hypothetically here , but can you share a moment in your whole clean energy journey that kind of demonstrated clearly that you're the right person for the job ?
Yeah , I think it comes back down to this point . I mentioned around financing and how financing can be used specifically in solar or energy equipment sales , and so I remember getting a call . Did you hear that they're going to ban finance point of sale finance from energy equipment sales ? And so I remember getting a call .
Did you hear that they're going to ban finance point of sale finance from energy equipment sales ? And it was no . I haven't heard and I can't , I just can't believe it . But from that moment on I hired a head of risk and you know reputation . We did .
We spent a huge amount of money in independent lobbying and you know independent economic research studies to be able to prove that this was important , that this added value , that it caused no harm to households . It took us many , many years .
It's actually only now that changes to buy now , pay later regulation are tabled to go through parliament in the next two weeks sitting .
It's taken what is it four , five , six , six or seven years to actually get to a point where our company has spent a lot of money , time and effort and we have been advocating for this product to remain open and it's at the heart of the solar and energy equipment industry .
So I think that speaks to an example where we've spent money , where we've spent time , and we've done that because it's important to an industry , and there's no individual company that could have spent that amount of time or that amount of effort , but we can because we represent so many of them .
So you basically say you know who to talk to , you know how to formulate the message and you're persistent enough to just keep on going at it till you kind of get common sense on the other side .
A hundred percent .
We understand the nuanced way to be able to work with government departments , to be able to work with government regulators , statutory authorities , to be able to work with politicians on both sides of government , to be able to work with the independents not just the parties in power and the major oppositions and I was in Canberra last week for two days , I'll be
there next week for two days . I spend a lot of time doing this and this is what I'm saying I would be doing because it represents the industry .
Okay , Now I believe you're running a joint ticket with Tesla . What's the reason ?
Well , as I mentioned before , I see one of the biggest opportunities and one of the biggest problems that is facing our industry is the slow uptake of batteries , and I think it's something that we need to work with the regulators , work with the government of the day to be able to develop programs and incentives and the right policy settings to accelerate batteries .
And so I have been really impressed with what Tesla have been doing on this front .
They're not just out there selling equipment , they're actually actively advocating and developing policies and ensuring we have the right settings and incentives , and so I was really delighted , you know , when Joseph and I spoke and we identified that there was an opportunity to do a joint ticket .
As you know , there are 37 applicants for the CEC nominations and how many people on the board ?
So there's four or five positions that are open at the moment . Why I'm running with Tesla ? One of the reasons is you can actually split a vote . So , for example , there are different membership types for the CEC .
So there's sponsorship , corporate , professional services , associate and network members , and a sponsorship member has 20 votes and a corporate member has six votes , for example . And so what we're wanting to do is we're wanting to come in and try and split that 20 vote , try and split that six vote so we can get 10 each , or we can get three each .
So running the joint ticket , you know , we can accelerate the power of our networks . Firstly , we can then use them to hopefully split some of the votes and then , hopefully , that helps both of us get over the line Got it , Got it .
But somebody might argue oh look , Tesla is already quite a bit dominant in the battery market . You're already quite dominant in the industry , or the biggest market share .
That is really positive , because it means that we can best represent the industry .
And you've done good customer service and that's why people come back , is it ?
That's why they come back . But it also means that we best represent that retailer industry , and so you wouldn't want to be a minority group there . You wouldn't want to be someone who represents just a specific minority interest , because you're not representing the majority of the people .
And you also don't have as much at stake .
You don't have as much at stake and you're not representing as many , so you know you're potentially influencing for minority interests which I don't think are the right outcomes .
So let's say you would get involved and you would get elected to the board . How would you then try to influence the board in the directions , the things to look at ? I mean , are you going to make any kind of difference ?
So I was at the CEC CEO forum last week and they've got , you know , a wonderful document on the strategic outcomes that they're focused on . One of the things I'd be really focused on would be adding another stream of work which is focused on household or smaller scale distributed generation and storage . So that's the first thing I'd be
¶ Financing Renewable Energy Solutions Expansion
focused on .
The CEC hasn't really worried about that too much , other than putting out a guide and this , and that they haven't really engaged with the . I mean , they're so busy already with big business , their business busy with the installer network and the product registration , so they haven't really .
I don't think most Australians , if you ask what the CEC , would actually even know the acronym .
Well , I think what is interesting is that we're going through a cost of living crisis in . Australia .
And we know that there's an election next year in you know some states and federally , and we know that on all sides of government , the cost of living crisis is the biggest issue that's most front of mind for all politicians , and so , as they start to prepare their election policies , one of the things they most want to talk about is how they can solve the
cost of living crisis , and they're all absolutely considering programs to help households get cost-effective energy , to get batteries , to get more solar . So that's what the government of the day wants to talk about .
So if you want to be positioned really well as an industry association , you have to also start to support the government and how you can help them achieve their goals .
So I think there is a huge place for the CEC to do that , the Clean Energy Council to do that , and to enable the government to be able to think through policies and programs that they can bring to . You know , support the electorates , to support communities .
So , historically , Can I just stop you here ? So support the electorates but also then therefore support the industry , because there's more work and you believe that you can bring that kind of aspect to the CEC board to be more involved in that than they were before .
A hundred percent .
Got it . So we talked a little bit about that . You saw an opportunity where the small loans weren't really facilitated by the big banks , to help the installers , and that's why you started Bright . But you know , how did you actually then overcome that challenge ?
Because if I'm a big bank and I don't want to take the risk , why did you decide to involve those customers and take the risk ?
So , firstly , I felt that we are the only company in Australia focused solely on the energy equipment finance industry . We're the only company and so many other companies do it as a channel , as a segment , you know but this is our focus and our expertise .
So that's your main loaf of bread . You're not just having a little biscuit on the side . No , no , no , there's no espresso you live and breathe it every day .
That's it . That's all we do .
Right .
You know . And so by being focused , what we do is we focus on the risks and there are risks in the equipment retailer industry . So effectively you've got electricians who are involved with representing Bright at the point of sale and our credit products . We have licences and it's hugely risky for us .
And so what we do is we've developed a lot of experience around doing what we call an accreditation , so upfront and ongoing . We do is we've developed a lot of experience around doing what we call an accreditation , so upfront and ongoing .
We do lots of assessment on who we work with , why we continue to work with them and understanding what risks they represent , and we also provide them with a lot of training to make sure we can mitigate those risks . And so that gives us access to the biggest network in Australia of accredited equipment retailers and installers .
They're not ours , they're all independent companies , but that accreditation and assessment process we do , for example , gives the ACT government , the Tasmanian government , confidence and we run their loan programs , we run their subsidy programs , because they know that when they distribute their credit through Bright that they're accessing an accredited network base .
Right , right , but then it comes also back to the end customers , so they have to be vetted in some way that they are actually reliable in paying back For the equipment , isn't it ?
Yeah , so the first stage we do is we vet the equipment network and the second stage that we do on every credit application , we do full assessment . You know , with responsible lending , so we have a credit licence , financial services licence , energy retail licence .
You know we're doing all the appropriate assessments to make sure the customer is accessing the right credit product .
But then also we've got a cost of living crisis now . So is this actually meaning that bad debts have increased quite significantly ?
Oh , absolutely not . What we found is that our we call them loss rates , or rears rates , have been decreasing over the last quarter and they remain at our all-time average .
So we have one of the best performances in industry as far as you know , customers who pay on time , and that's because you know up front we do the right checks , we make sure that it's suitable for customers when they enter into the products and , secondly , customers really are getting savings .
So you know , as cost of living goes up , as bills go up , that savings that they're generating actually increases .
So there's actually an appreciation of being able to have been purchased the solar and the battery and now maybe not struggling with those electricity bills .
at least Well , effectively , on a finance term , like you've got a hedge position . So you know , if you kind of locked into that contract as a household and you know 30% , 40% , you're generating your own energy . Like you have a hedge . So for 30% or 40% of that bill it is not increasing . The other 60% of the bill was increasing , but not that 30% or 40% .
So your cost of living hedge is effectively in place and you aren't as exposed .
Most people don't really understand that .
They don't , but it's effectively . You know when you get the ability to generate your own energy . You know when you get the ability to generate your own energy , that part doesn't experience an increase when you know energy tariffs increase .
Yeah , no , no , I got that . But some people do have mortgages . They can kind of draw back out of those also to pay equipment . So how much of a barrier are the upfront cost for all the electrification to actually go ahead ?
Yeah , they are a barrier because the decision's made at the point of sale , and so , at the point of sale , when you're choosing the energy equipment that you want to go ahead with , that's when you need to pay the deposit . It's when you need to understand how you're going to pay .
And so , if you use your home loan and you've got an 18 or a 30-year repayment profile , you often end up paying more because you're paying interest over 18 to 30 years , as opposed to getting a three or a five-year repayment profile .
Because you don't have the discipline to really push it down , is it ?
Yeah .
With a five-year , you know that you've got to really do this . You've got to use your savings out of the bill , push it back into the equipment .
With a loan it can kind of be just kind of forgotten . It can go a bit longer , it can be forgotten , and so you know that's one thing . The other thing is people generally don't like to use things like their credit card to pay for higher value purchases that are 10 , 15 . They use that for everyday discretionary spending like buying petrol or groceries .
So credit cards are not right , home loans are not preferred and other loan products actually take a long time .
You've got to leave the point of sale , do a credit application and so the equipment seller you know really wants to close that sale on the spot , because their experience is , if you walk away from the point of sale and that sale's not closed , you get busy . The kids ring you up I need a pickup .
You know something happens at home and you never go ahead with that purchase .
No , but also the competitor will come and push harder .
But you still need a way to pay the competitor .
Yeah , no , true , true , true , True . But so you're saying that if I have a good quality solar system and it sits there and I'm not putting a battery next to it now with $7,000 , or I have a no deposit and I paid over time , the chances for the customer to go ahead with the purchase is much higher on the no deposit because it feels a bit less painful .
Yeah , so there's no friction , there's nothing to pay up front . You can generally make your repayments once the solar's installed and the meter's connected , so you can start aligning your repayments with your energy savings .
Mm-hmm . So you do have now like a vendor network right across Australia , is it ?
Yeah . So we've got over 2,600 accredited companies that we work with across the country , and so those accredited companies , for example in ACT , are able to access the ACT Sustainable Household Loan Scheme or distribute subsidies . So it's a prerequisite to be accredited with Bright now to start to access some different programs .
So without the network you really could have to have your own staff . So the network is really important , isn't it ?
We only distribute through the network . We are not a direct-to-consumer business , we're a B2B2C , so we only distribute through the network , and that's why I mentioned that network is so intrinsic to Bright's success .
And so those people also are the ones that should vote for you for the CC board .
A hundred percent because I don't know who else they'd vote for , aside from Joseph at Tesla and the Catherine McConnell joint ticket , because it's going to be a ticket and a vote that best represents their interests .
But look , there are other people . I'm sure that there are maybe even some odd install or so in the 37 people . Is it because you really bring the notice and information on the industry and the deep knowledge , the practice of working in the industry , the network and possibly the persistence all to the job ? Is that why people should vote for you ?
And I think the other thing , Marcus , is I understand what it's like to run a business , so I'm not representing , you know , a corporate and I think Joseph's doing a great job there , but what you get with me is I started a business , you know . I started the business with a redraw on my home loan .
You know and I know what it's like to operate your own business and that's what these companies are around the country . I know exactly what that feels like and what you would do to make that business succeed , and so , in that sense , I represent them .
So issues of cash flow , issue of getting the right staff , issue of having a business plan that allows you to grow the business , they're all part of your world and that's part of the solar retailers world 100% , yeah , 100% .
In the olden days people just decided I want to have a solar system , I get a lower bill and all that , but now it becomes a whole package and all that . Have you guys kind of contributed to that , to educate , maybe , the solar retailers how to sell packages instead of solar only ? What's your own contribution towards the growth of the industry ?
So we do have newsletters and we do have you know . We do have BDMs who provide training on how to sell with finance , and so they do that through webinars . They do that through you know and so they do that through webinars . They do that through you know site visits , and so that's one way that we contribute to helping .
Also , it is how to help them sell higher value packages , because it might be easy selling something for $5,000 , $6,000 , but they're not really used to selling something for $15,000 , for $20,000 , and that's the importance of finance . Also , the importance of finance is , as interest rates went up . It's the importance of finance .
Also , the importance of finance is , as interest rates went up , it's the importance of selling with the 0% interest product and how to teach people to remove the upfront costs , spread the payments over time . It helps , you know , people kind of navigate . You know , not having as much disposable income , but how to use that to you know best support a household .
Right right Now the CEC board . Would they benefit from somebody having all that finance info ?
I think they'd benefit from having my experience in investment banking , in equipment finance . You know I've done the AICD director's course so I not only stand governance , banking , finance , but how to run a successful business and so how to best utilise the resources and the people that they have to get the most , you know , beneficial outcomes .
¶ Breaking Barriers in Energy Industry
Have you ever ?
had bigger hurdles in your career because you're a woman .
I always , so I try not to think about whether I have or I haven't because You're just being yourself and just keep on bulldozing through . Yeah , I bulldoze through . I was listening to Taylor Swift . The man on the way in it popped up on my pop-its playlist , you know .
So maybe sometimes I'm an alpha female , you know , and I'm very single-minded view around the opportunity that exists for Bright and its success . And you know I bulldoze through to get that .
You do have an aura of don't give a bullshit .
I think you learned that after nine years of running . I mean , you know 2020 , covid , you know 2021 , tech market crash and equity valuations start to drop . 2022 , interest rates go up five times in a period of six months and debt capital markets become volatile Like what haven't I experienced over the last four years . I can absolutely you know .
It feels a bit like I'm invincible at this stage .
No , but you're in the solar industry . It's called the solar coast .
Yeah , and layered on that is like government coming into the solar industry and with policy settings and announcements that are detrimental to the industry . You know there's nothing now that won't surprise me , but there's also nothing now that I won't not speak up against , because I've just seen it all . It feels like .
Right . So you've basically been right in the middle of the tipsy turble . You haven't had time to think if I'm a man or a woman . You've just got your goal and you push for it .
Yeah , gender's not about you know how focused you are , how much you know you want success or how much you want to win .
Like , that's just who I am . But why , do you think , in the solar and energy industry it is still very , very male dominated ?
Actually that's electricians . So electricians apprenticeships are primarily male , and I don't remember the exact stat , but I think it's only a couple of percent of females are doing electrical trades . I know in ACT and Tasmania Bright has scholarships that we have .
So in ACT it's with the CIT , and each year we pay for different costs for females that are doing electrical trades courses , and so I get to meet with you know these amazing females , and they all tell me they're the only female in their electrical trades class . They don't meet anybody all day , they're not working with any females .
They then go to like the TAFE and there's no females in their class , and so for them it's very lonely , and when they connect with each other they're so appreciative . Yeah , females are different .
Let's not go away from the physical side of things , but from an electrical safety and sparky point of view , there's no reason why it has to be a male or female . They both could do the job , couldn't they ? A hundred percent , so it's more the historical setup of the industry that needs to change , isn't it ?
I think it's the perception of electrical trades for men . And also it's the perception that when you have a career in , say , solar installation or you know a solar trades business , that the only job for you is up on the roof . Do you know what I mean ? So females might start to think what if I'm pregnant ? That's not the job for me .
How do I juggle my child and this ? And men kind of think , how do I juggle my child and my family ? But not in the same way females do when they think about pregnancy . And so through meeting the female scholarship girls , they've actually told me that there are so many careers you can have .
You know , you can run the business , you can run the administration side , you can do the quoting , you can do the sales , you can do the designing . You can be a CEC accredited designer . So it's not just you're on the roof and you're putting the panels on the roof .
And I think we need to really speak more about the awareness of the industry and the types of jobs that you can have if you're in this industry , and I think that will start to also help females think that this could be an opportunity for them , a career path for them .
I mean , even if you get an electoral apprenticeship and you go through it , you would make a much , much better solar and battery salesperson , because you actually know what you're talking about .
Half the time people sell something and the poor installer comes and tries to then realise what was sold and sometimes technically it's not possible because the salesperson didn't have the in-depth knowledge .
Yeah , and I think that the biggest barrier in the uptake of energy equipment in the future is going to be access to the skilled labour force .
To be access to the skilled labour force , so access to trades , and I think it's really wrong if we think that it can only be men and we don't solve this myth , we don't solve this fallacy now , because we will not have enough people to be able to install the equipment we need to meet our targets to satisfy demand .
You know , we absolutely need to make this a visible career option for females and we need to make it an exciting career option for females as well .
Now the government and who cares really ? Who's going to get elected down the track , one or the other nuclear coal , solar wind ? The truth is , most end customers just want electricity to be cheaper A hundred percent , and I can't see a cheaper way to get electricity to make it yourself .
So is there anything that finance can do to help the government to actually get the agenda out , to help people with cost of living when it comes to energy ?
Yeah , there's absolutely going to be a balanced energy mix in the future , but renewable energy is the cheapest form of energy in our country and households need to access this form of energy and government has a role to play in helping reduce the cost to enable accessibility . I think , specifically , there are certain groups of households .
So , whether they're lower income , whether they're First Nations , but there are certain groups of households that we need to make energy equipment more accessible to and I think that's where government , you know , really has a role to play in supporting those groups .
I think middle income Australians who can access credit , who have the ability to make repayments there are private credit options available to them . I think where there are categories of equipment and batteries fall in this category today , the payback naturally is not making sense and you do need some incentives to be able to accelerate that uptake .
And the reason why the government should intervene there is because a household battery doesn't just provide a benefit to that house .
Once it's connected to a VPP , it starts to provide grid support and it starts to impact a community , so it has societal benefits , and that's why I think government should start to intervene in the support and acceleration of household batteries because of this third party benefit that it provides .
What would you say to the theory that maybe the grid will become a bit less stable , with all the EVs coming , charging at the same time , more solar coming in and all of those things , and then maybe we'll have more blackouts and that'll drive the sale of batteries ?
I think , you know , batteries have two components One is to provide reliability to the home and the second is to provide support to the grid . So both of those aspects and EVs also have that role , not just the household battery , but that is around augmentation , it's around , you know , connectivity . So it's the two parts that you have to get right .
¶ Government Partnership for Energy Efficiency
Now , have you guys worked with government ? Are there any success stories where you guys and government worked actually hand in hand and you guys created a success and the government made itself look good because of it ?
So there's three programs . So the first one I'll quickly speak to is a local government program that we've just announced , which is the postcode of 2515 . So it's the saw Griffith electrifying the postcode of the rule in Austermere , and so Bright was successful in being the lead applicant to ARENA .
So we were a recipient of a grant which is quite a few million dollars , and we've built out a platform that enables 500 households in that suburb to decarbonise and electrify their homes . So that's the first program .
So what's the cost per household that you would need to kind of really go fully decarbonised ?
It'll depend on the list of equipment and the type of household .
But just the range . You wouldn't do it for 5,000 . It must be at least 20 , 25 or more , isn't it ?
Yeah , so , like I mentioned , to fully decarbonise could be up to 55K , but the type of equipment that each household will have to get , there'll be a baseline assessment , so it will be different for each household .
But would you say that the ROI is best on solar , then maybe a little bit more on heat pump and then a bit more on the battery , and when you bring it all together maybe it was 30% benefit on solar , but then bring it all together it's maybe 15 return ROI percentage , that kind of thing . Is that how it works ?
Yeah , it does work like that . But also you have different incentives . So solar , you've got the STCs , you've got state government programs for VPP connection and battery and then for this postcode they have the added benefit of a subsidy from Arena once the install's complete . So we layer in all of those incentives and I don't have the ROI on me .
No , no , no , but there's absolutely the payback . Nobody would have that on the top of their head .
And it's cashflow . You know it's at least neutral or cashflow positive for that customer .
What did that postcode do to get all these benefits ?
So what it is ?
It's a partnership with Endeavor Energy as well , and so what we're going to be doing is everyone's connecting to a household energy management tool , a HEMS , and then there's a data project which Rewiring Australia are running to be able to look at different tariffs and to be able to look at how you can change and drive consumer behaviours in fully electrified homes
with different tariffs and incentives .
So basically in that Thurl area they're running this like an experiment to really get as many people fully into electric , with solar backing it , to maybe create a model for the rest of Australia 100% , 100% .
So we're really excited to have built that platform out , to be running that program and to be using that as a trial for what could happen elsewhere . So that's the first government program .
Yeah , I was going to ask about the others .
So the other two are state government programs , so the one in the ACT Sustainable Household Scheme that was implemented in around 2020 , 2021 . And about $250 million or so have been deployed by the ACT government through BRYT and for a few different types of energy equipment categories .
So it's not just solar batteries , it's also insulation , it's energy efficiency EVs and EV chargers , and so we have firstly accredited all those different vendors , including Tesla , including BYD , so not just solar retailers . They have now the ability to use Bright's app or our web portal to be able to do the finance applications .
And then their customers , when they're buying their equipment , they're able to make the application and be able to be a recipient of up to $10,000 of a 0% interest loan from the ACT government Sorry , $15,000 with a 10-year term .
What's your third story of success working with the government ?
The Tasmania , so energy savings loan scheme , and so we work there . Their focus in the Tasmania is around bill savings , so energy efficiency and bill savings . So insulation is really big there as well , in the walls , under the floor , in the ceiling , just to try and retain the heat .
It's not just around generation but it's also around retention , so energy efficiency . So we've run a program that I think it's around 50 million or so deployed so far , might be a little bit more and that's also supporting landlords , small businesses and households , and we deploy the loans on behalf of the government .
So you worked with three different government programs providing the loans so that people can make their homes more energy efficient . But we have many , many more governments . What are the opportunities that we're not using right now ?
So for Bright the opportunity is to help more governments deploy programs that are loans , that are incentives , because what we can do is we can manage that network , the equipment retailer network . You know , we can distribute the loans , we can distribute subsidies , we can do it for all types of equipment and very quickly and cost-effectively .
We can do that more cost-effectively than them setting up their own department to actually run this . So what's wrong with a bit ?
of red tape .
So I think it was in about two months actually , from winning the first program with the ACT , we had that set up and then with winning the Tasmanian program , it was less than a month after winning the tender we had that deployed in market and so you know , that's not very good .
You're making the government look bad . You're too quick .
So it's a great outcome for the equipment retail . You know , the first point we spoke about earlier was you make a policy announcement and you take six months . Well , it doesn't happen when you work with Bright . You know , we very quickly get that program rolling because we understand the consequence on the equipment retail and network .
The other thing that we do is we provide information sessions , we provide awareness so people understand what's going to be happening , when it's going to be happening and how to get accredited and pre-enrolled .
Right , so you've established that Bright has worked with governments to implement loan programs for people to get into more energy efficient equipment . You also want to go to the CC board . Is there somewhere where that linkage can be brought through you , where the government and the CC can work together in a policy framework to get things done ?
Yeah , I 100% think the most time effective way for government to understand an industry is not to go to each member of the industry but to go to the industry association .
And so I think that you know , with our skill in working with government programs , in representing an industry , my role on the board will be to best represent , you know , this culmination of how government can work with the industry , meaning the installers and all that .
But the CEC's reputation wasn't always that they're always representing the industry the best way , because they've got so many other roles to do . Is there room for improvement ?
When I was at the CEC CEO forum last week . One of the problems I heard was about CEO forum last week . One of the problems I heard was about utility scale and large scale renewables not moving as fast as they can because of community issues , because of local council planning issues . We absolutely need to bring households along with us on this energy transition .
There's no way you're going to get large scale installation of renewables unless households understand the power of renewables and they understand that best when it's on their own roof . So I don't believe that we can get a transition that's powered solely by the big end of town unless we bring the small end of town with us .
I think we can solve the utility issues , we can solve the planning issues , we can solve the planning issues , we can solve community engagement issues If you start to help the community get access to these types of benefits .
I actually I'm quite annoyed to see how we're rolling out renewables right now , because we've got so much renewables already on the roofs and now we're building these huge solar farms far away and we need all these big transmission lines which cause all those community kerfuffles .
Two things If you need less transmission lines , then you can potentially put them underground and some of the issues will go . And why don't we utilise much more the roofs that we have in the cities already and batteries in those areas to create a much more decentralised model ?
Because with the big solar farms , we're still following the old coal fire model , where we're building a big energy generator and we send it out . Why can't we do it a bit more intelligent ?
At the forum last week I heard Ted O'Brien , the opposition energy minister , talk around a balanced energy mix . A balanced energy mix and what that means is we need a combination of solutions to get us to our you know , sustainable energy destiny . Households have to be involved .
You know , households can help solve the short-term problems we have with transmission If we empower those 3.5 million plus homes that already have solar . They understand the benefits , they understand how it works .
They are the ones that we can most quickly equip with household batteries so that distributed generation network that we have across the country we can use them , we can give them batteries and they can help solve our transmission problems . They can help solve a lot of the problems we're facing now in the utility space .
I do have to kind of push back a little bit , because out of the 3.5 million solar systems I'd say at least 1 million is possibly a 1.5 kilowatt that's not going to drive any battery anywhere far . So at least 1 million would actually have to upgrade their solar number one . Yeah .
And number two , a lot of them put it on got the lower bill but emotionally never really got that engaged . So why would you make them and how could you make them ambassadors for others ?
Yeah , so I think the first thing is those smaller scale systems . What's really great is that the cost of the system has come down since they got their first system , so you can probably find they can get another eight , nine kilowatts for less than the price they paid for their first one and a half kilowatt system .
So I think that that one can be easily solved . The second part of it is you know , maybe we don't need all of them connected to VPPs . We only need a million of them connected . So a third of them need to be connected to provide grid stability and support connected . So a third of them need to be connected to provide grid stability and support .
And so that you know there are always going to be early adopters . I think it's going to take time for people to understand , you know , vpps and how they have to provide the grid support , not just their own home support .
But when the EVs are able to be plugged straight into the house will that make the whole thing not even much more complicated or maybe more stable ? How do you see the EV changing the whole energy footprint for households ?
Yeah , the vehicle-to-grid is a really exciting proposition . Ev uptake is still , you know . Is it $150,000 ? Yeah , it's still really low and that will change in the future .
But that will you know , it'll effectively be about , you know , five to seven household batteries in the car connected to the home , and so not only does it provide the house support , but it would be such a shame if that car wasn't providing the grid support , because that energy that you've got stored there could provide so much more benefit to not just the house
but , you know , the
¶ Renewable Energy Policy and Industry Growth
wider community . So I think that there is a lot of information and awareness we need to start doing to households , to the community , you know , to our country , because it doesn't just happen without starting to tell a story of the benefits of what's happening , and that takes time .
But you also need to change some of the regulatory framework because some things are not actually . They're technical feasible , but some old engineering rules say you're not allowed to do it 100% .
So in the ACT they had a vehicle to grid trial that's been operating for the past few years . They've got some really interesting insights that they can use to drive policy and changes . So you know everything in life needs to change and you know definitely the network rules need to change .
It's great to see Endeavor Energy part of the pilot that we have with Arena , because the distributors , the networks , need to actually come along and look at changes to their policy and settings and is that coming ?
Do you see changes there ? Or too slow , or what ?
No , no , I see changes . I just see a lot of complexity and I think you just have to work through everything quite , you know , quite consistently . But I see desire there . I see desire , I see necessity because no one wants blackouts .
You know brownouts , no one wants that in Australia and we all know that transmission is not going to be built in the right timeframes to enable utility you know solar farms to be able to support our grid in the next few years .
The other thing is , you know , when you think about AI and in an accelerated uptake of AI , more data centres will be built and the requirements that they're going to have to draw power from the grid .
It's just going to accelerate the needs that we have as a country for energy and so , effectively , any type of energy that we can get , you know , any type of renewable energy that we can get connected to the grid . We should be taking that up very quickly .
So basically I mean Australia . I always say what's our vision for the future ? Because we can't just be digging out the coal and the iron anymore , because one day the world will say what's our vision for the future ?
Because we can't just be digging out the coal and the iron anymore , because one day the world will say , no , we don't need that much of it anymore . So what's the vision of Australia ? And obviously , with all the landmast and the sun we get , I can see us as an energy superpower , but we need to bring the people along .
We should be the world's energy superpower , renewable energy superpower , and it was just in 2010 or so when state government feed-in tariff programs fuelled and accelerated the uptake of residential rooftop you know , rooftop solar Exactly as we saw that happen , you know , over 14 years ago . We have the opportunity for that to happen again with batteries .
With the right policy and incentives , you know , from government to accelerate batteries , that can happen .
And so we really do have the opportunity globally to be a country that's powered by the sun , to be powered by the sun , to be able to use that to replace , you know , generation as it comes off from coal and to replace that , you know , with fully renewables .
But there was a particular battery brand that is doing a bit of recall and all that . I mean there were obviously some issues with that particular brand . But I mean , are batteries really reliable enough to now back people for 10 years plus ?
So I believe they are today and I I believe that over time things will only get better . So the type of technology that we have the , you know , the warranties , the cycling , the life expectancy of these products will only get better , just as it has with solar , you know . So you had 125 watt panels , now they're 550 watt panel plus .
So you know the irradiation per watt just increases , the cost decreases , and so I think you can't say you're not going to make a decision today because in the future it's going to be better . You still need to act today and I think the level of incentives we get from government today are needed , but over time they won't be In the same way .
The STC program , you know , effectively ends in 2030 . And from the date it was implemented to the date it ended , it has a slow drop off . I think that's why we need incentives today , because batteries on their own don't make sense .
So you need some incentive to encourage uptake , but over time that should drop off , as naturally , you know , costs start to reduce .
Catherine , you want to stand for the CEC board , so you're going to have to be able to answer tough questions . We've got the coalition on one hand now pushing towards the nuclear . We've got Labor still very committed to the renewable . We have energy policies for the last 10 years going up and down and sideways .
A couple of prime ministers lost their jobs over it . How can we make energy policy one day in Australia something where people have a damn common vision ?
Marcus , the domain of renewable energy is not owned by either party . It's not owned by Labor , it is not owned by the Greens , it is owned by the Australian people , it is owned by the industry , and we want to see the acceleration of renewable energy in Australia .
And so I believe it's important to work with all parties , the government of the day , the opposition of the day because if we want to see success in our industry , it is not about politics , it is about policy , and I want to make sure the right policy is implemented in this space .
So basically , if we find the horse called self-interest and get electricity prices lower , which is lower cost of living pressure any government should embrace you .
Every government should embrace renewable energy . Every government that is concerned about cost of living in Australia should be courting the Australian people with a program and a policy around battery and solar incentives .
So , basically , the industry is likely to grow a lot in the next couple of years , so we need to actually do something to make sure there's enough staff for those people to employ .
We need to make sure there's enough staff . We need to make sure the red tape's removed . We need to make sure we have a channel to listen to the concerns of an industry as they're happening , before they get too big . We need to make sure we're listening and we need to make sure that we're doing all we can to accelerate this industry .
I mean even the installers themselves . They just wanted to put a solar panel , bolt it on , connect it to the inverter , but now the paperwork and the photographs on the roof and the geodata and all that . These poor guys I mean and ladies who install , they're going crazy with all the paperwork .
Is there something that can be looked at to make it just a little bit less onerous ?
on small business so I think that all government needs to get better with tech . It needs to get better with innovation and so , as we saw in services New South Wales , moving to the app and moving to look at driver's licence and digital .
But I think you know , in everything , particularly in the renewable energy industry , compliance is really important because you've got you know solely , you've got batteries attached to homes . Fire damage is huge , so we need to tread really carefully that we're protecting homes and keeping households safe .
You have to have compliance , but I think we need to think through how can we make that , you know , less friction .
But there are always cowboys in this industry and then one cowboy does the wrong thing and 30 other people now have to fill up 14 forms . Cowboy does the wrong thing and 30 other people now have to fill up 14 forms .
How do we get the cowboys out of it ? Yeah , so that comes down to why Bright does an accreditation and why we have to be , you know , aware of who the reputable players are and making sure we accelerate the businesses of those reputable participants .
Because you do need to have regulation , you do need to have standards for who can participate as far as an equipment retailer and installer . You do need approved products , you do need approved practices for who can operate . So that's all really , really important , but there's just this ever , you know very fine balancing act isn't there into ?
You know how much is too much and you know what do you need to do to protect and what do you need to do to make sure you don't , you know , impact the small businesses .
So if I would consider now where to put my CC vote and I can see your name and Tesla's name in a combo on the ballot paper what's your key ? 30 second pitch why I should vote for you .
So a vote for Bright and Tesla is a vote to accelerate the uptake of renewable energy industry . It's a vote for small scale distributed energy and storage . It's actually small installers , but it's also . There are banks . We are representing credit providers , so we are representing you know the alliance between credit and energy equipment .
So if you're a bank on there , you should think of voting for Bright and Tesla . If you're an equipment manufacturer , you should be thinking that Tesla is a great opportunity to be able to represent . You know the policy settings around equipment .
If you're a small scale retailer or installer , you should be thinking that Bright represents over 2,600 of these companies . Our business is intertwined with their success . We best represent their interests .
So you can actually funnel their feedback back into you and pass it on to , is it ?
A hundred percent , and so we're going to be setting up monthly forums and a website and portal where we could take their interest and take their problems and be able to funnel that back into the CEC , should we be elected .
Well , catherine , thank you very much for coming . I really learned a lot . I like your enthusiasm , your energy , I like the fact that you've been successful and traversed COVID and the financial crisis and all that , and keep on going and advocating for the industry . We need more champions and I wish you all the best with your CC application to the board .
Thank you , Marcus .
You're welcome , great Cheers .
Cheers . Please support the channel by liking the video . Hit that subscribe button and ring the bell and check out all our other videos . Want more Energy Answered ? Visit yourenergyanswerscom for quality energy products , tools and calculators and find your quality local installers . You're still here . I'll see you next time . Bye .