Advanced Solar Solutions and EV Charging with Ben Masters

And we've got Ben Masters today from Solar Hub in Canberra , but you guys do in Canberra but also the south coast of New South Wales , so got a branch in Canberra , but you guys do in Canberra but also the south coast of New South Wales , so got a branch in Melbourne as well . So tell me how long you been in solar Ben .

We've seen the ups and the downs and those times unfortunately haven't gone away . We've seen a recent , I guess , case of that with the New South Wales battery scheme . It just sort of feels like Groundhog Day , back to government sort of intervening , promising rebates , a trough , a peak . It's a tough industry to be in , but a rewarding one .

I think what we've done over that time is built a really good business with great staff , a really good brand . We really keep the customer's best interests at front of mind when we're designing systems . So it's been enjoyable and rewarding , but certainly very , very challenging .

Really , what should have happened ? Either they announced it right before it was due to start or potentially considered some sort of retrospective arrangement where we can provide that rebate for today , but perhaps we can't claim it off the government until November .

And look , I know the New South Wales government and industry associations are looking at some changes , possibly to bring that date forward or allow us to provide that rebate earlier , and I'm sure the industry would welcome that . Right , right .

We've got some of the highest uptake in the world and I think in a large part that's due to a scheme that really hasn't changed . When it was first designed . You know the rebate ticks down every year all the way out to 2030 . So it's a known quantity for installers and customers and it's really built the industry here in Australia . So that's good policy .

Good long-term thinking is what we need , not sort of short-term , vote winning policies . Those aren't good for industry .

I got into solar really because I was quite interested in it and the person I started the business with at the time was really passionate about it too and she had a degree in environmental science and she was actually working for another solar company at the time and I said , look , you know how about we do this ourselves ?

I think we can do a better job , you know , and that's sort of how it started . So I worked two jobs for a really long period of time there , but you know , very quickly the business took off and I got more heavily involved and I think my background is in software development has really helped the business .

You know , we're very forward thinking with the software and the solutions that we provide to customers and these days the home energy systems are just one big software platform , if you like . There's lots of integrations between devices , there's data about how they're performing each day that customers have got to look at and visualize .

So I think some of that experience has certainly helped our business .

If people are only home at the evening times there's only two of them and they don't use a lot of energy then we'll go for a slightly smaller system . But if it's a big family , really high energy users , they want to leave that air conditioning on all the time all year round .

Then , of course , they're going for a 10 , 13 , 15 , even a 20 kilowatt system for some of these bigger premises . So , yes , as I said , solhub really prides itself on that design element . We're not just slapping cookie cutter systems onto roofs .

We sit down with customers in their homes , talk to them about their energy use now and what their energy use is going to look like in the future . Are they going to buy an EV , for example ? That would obviously change what we would do from a design point of view .

So , yeah , we certainly value that customer engagement and pride ourselves on designing solutions that are the right size for customers .

So we look for people that are looking for good and well-engineered solutions for customers , not just sitting there trying to sell them something and walk out the door . So that really starts with how we recruit and as part of our job description is having a technical aspect and a technical expertise within those teams .

So all of them know I'm not saying they know as much as our installers , but we try and get them as close to that sort of knowledge base as possible .

right . So what services do you do nowadays ? You started with solar . You're doing more than that .

But really the last thing typically that someone will want to change over to get off gas is the cooktop . I know for me I'd done the whole house . I had got the solar , the battery , the reverse cycle air conditioning , swapped over the hot water , but I held on as long as possible to that gas cooktop because I do like cooking a lot .

Surprisingly , when I changed over to a really good induction cooktop I actually came to grips with it fairly quickly . I mean there's some real advantages to induction cooking and certainly the bill savings at that point were really high for me because all I had the gas connection into my home for was the gas cooktop .

So it was really nice to be able to ring up the retailer and say , hey , come and disconnect that gas meter please , and haven't got a gas bill since .

The gas price has obviously been going up considerably in Australia , and if you can electrify your home and power that from a solar and battery that you've purchased yourself and is your own generator on your own roof , and certainly the return on investment getting off the gas is really quite high .

You can't generate your own gas on site , but you can generate your own electricity and that's the key thing .

Once upon a time , I recall days where you were getting paid 20 cents a kilowatt hour , for example , for your feed-in . Now you're lucky if you get three , four , five cents for your feed-in , and there's even talk about it going even lower than that . And this is where a battery plays a really important role .

It charges during the day from your solar system , often when you're at work not using any energy , and then when you get home at night and you turn on your air conditioner , you start cooking . You can discharge that battery into your home and use all that solar power that you were generating the day yourself , rather than exporting it .

So this is where batteries are coming into their own . The costs are coming down slowly . There are rebates as well coming for batteries , which will make them even more of a promising option for customers . So , yes , I think it's inevitable that we will get off gas .

It's only a matter of time , and electrifying your home is definitely something you should start the journey now . It's not just do it all in one go . I mean , it'd be nice to have all the money to do it in one shot , but certainly as things fail in your home , like your hot water system fails , you should look at an electric option .

Before you get onto that one , but those ones you could then fire up and run through the solar , of course , so anything that sits behind the meter that uses electricity can be powered from your solar system . Now , it's not directly happening . It's not like the solar is going directly from the inverter straight into your hot water tank .

It's going to a number of things in your home , and the hot water tank is just one of those things . Heat pumps and standard storage tanks can both be smart controlled .

Now , though , right , so you can look at an immersion controller for a hot water tank , where it will turn the element up and down in the tank depending on how much solar you have available , and the same with hot water heat pumps . You know these things can be set on timers to run during the daytime .

Some of the new ones have smarter control , so they're looking at what your solar is doing and heating the hot water accordingly .

But you've also got independent companies looking at this too . You've got companies that are looking at providing hardware and software that can talk to all these devices and orchestrate all these devices . I mean even things like Google Home , alexa all these things are pretty capable of controlling devices in your home .

The traditional solar manufacturers that are looking at getting further into the home and the smart home device manufacturers that are looking at providing control and apps for you to use in your home as well .

They want an app that tells them exactly what the solar is doing , what the battery's doing when the air con's on , what the temperature is , and they're right into it . And that's a whole swathe of customers that want to see that level of data . But for the most part , marcus , people just want a lower bill .

Ultimately , that's the thing that customers are driven by . They're looking at their bill go up and up every year , and it's not going up by a little bit . It's not going up by 2% or 3% like inflation . In some cases it's going up 10% , 15% , 20% , 30% each year , and those costs are getting exorbitant really .

I mean , the average home is probably spending somewhere between three and four grand a year on electricity now . Yeah , your hand shakes when you open the envelope Exactly , and if , you're sitting there and starting to make decisions about what you can or should and shouldn't

do in your home . Should I turn that air conditioner down ? Should I leave it off ? potentially , no holidays this summer , correct , and so the best way to tackle your bills is to take control back .

You know the retailers aren't acting in your best interest , so you need to act in your best interest and partner up with an installer that is acting in your best interest , and the best way to start is with solar . Add a battery on . Next , get off . Gas is probably the third thing you consider doing .

All these things are going to reduce your energy costs and shield you against further price rises . That's the thing . When you get your bill next year and you're generating your own energy , then who cares if it's gone up by a few percent ? You're not really paying anything anyway , right ? So it doesn't matter to you , and that's the key thing .

Ev is an interesting one because , yes , you're going to do a good chunk of your charging at home each day , but you're also probably going to charge on public infrastructure as well .

Wherever you're parking your car so maybe it's in a car park those car parks have got EV charges through them and you're charging up there , possibly at a subsidized rate , because the cost during the day of energy now is really quite low .

You look at the wholesale rates for electricity during the day , because there's so much solar around on the grid , it's really quite low .

So I think the most obvious way to combat not having enough roof space , for example for solar , is to charge your vehicle , probably during the day , on public charging infrastructure that are offering you subsidised energy because they're charging it off solar .

That's something that SolarHub have been looking at and we've got a solution called SolarHub Charge , where we're putting in public charging infrastructure on sites where we've got solar right . So these could be on a commercial building , on a car park , on a factory roof , and allowing customers to charge up their car during the day at a subsidised rate .

That's what we're doing with Solar Hub Charge .

The cost of EVs is coming down rapidly and it's not just the Teslas of this world driving it . You've got companies like BYD which are making cheaper vehicles , and that's going to lead to wider spread adoption of EVs through the network . The problem with putting public charging infrastructure in a lot of the time is that the grid itself is usually the constraint .

Infrastructure we're in a lot of the time is that the grid itself is usually the constraint .

As much as we would have thought the grid operators were investing wisely and upgrading the infrastructure over the last 10 years with all that money we've been giving them , they really haven't invested enough and so putting in public charges where you've got sort of really high demand , high peak power within those charges , it is going to put strain on the grid .

So we've got to be pretty smart about where we put this charging infrastructure . That's the biggest constraint at the moment . It's not so much that the wholesale price of solar is cheap during the day . It's that actually finding really good places to put these public charges is hard because there's not enough investment being made in the networks .

So , wherever you park your car , you put up , you plug it in and away you go , because not only do you want to be potentially charging from these things , but having your car plugged in does provide if it's orchestrated well , the networks with the ability to potentially use a little bit of that energy in your batteries to support the grid , if you need to right

. So there's lots of smart things that you can do with EV chargers .

Is that support the grid ? It's kind of a backward and forwards constantly , and solar is the driver for all of that Is that where the future is going , definitely .

But that is not far off and that's going to mean that customers might need to buy energy and any energy from the grid , right ? These cars have 70 , 80 kilowatt hour batteries . That's significantly more than most homes need or require , I use nine or 10 at night .

Maybe they're using 10 , 15 kilowatt hours out of their car battery . The rest of it's just sitting there , wasted , right ? So you can use some of that excess in your home and then drive to work the next day , plug into a public charger and top it back up to full again , right ?

You look at air conditioners they need filters changing Solar systems don't need a huge amount of maintenance , but every few years it's good to get someone to come out and check it , make sure it's performing optimally , possibly clean the panels every few years as well .

So we provide a support and maintenance function as well within our business , and that's across all of those product lines . So one of the big differences I think about SolarHub is that we do not only sell you the system , but we're there to support you through the life of that system too , with our own technicians .

Yes , we have some storms and some cloudy days , like anywhere , but most of the year round in solar you've got good , solar generating weather . So , yes , all rooftops , in my opinion , in the country should be covered with solar . That's something we should certainly be trying to achieve , and everyone should have a battery too .

That's where we're headed is that everyone should be able to generate their own power , store that power and be independent from the grid as much as possible .

You know there's probably not enough roof space for them to become energy independent , so you are going to always need , in this new renewable world , you're going to need large-scale solar farms , wind farms , onshore and offshore . You're going to need hydro . You need all these bigger things to supplement the roof .

It can't all be done , unfortunately , with rooftop solar , so you're going to need a mix . The big benefit , though , at least for the average Joe in their own home , is that for the most part , they can become pretty independent and they can get their bills down by just putting in solar on their own roof and electrifying the home .

That's something that every individual person can take responsibility for . We can't all be responsible for the big business at the end of town . That's got to be worried about by governments and the big network operators . But we need a combination . We need to be tackling all of these things . We can't just look at one single renewable solution .

It's a pretty good investment . You think about either putting the money in the bank and earning interest or putting into this . The better investment is to electrify your home and put solar on your roof .

Well , I mean you're paying upwards of 60 cents a kilowatt hour , sometimes in peak rates these days and shoulders sort of 20 to 30 cents off peak , somewhere around about that . 20 , 20 , 25 cents a mark . Now that's money you're paying a retailer . You've got no control over it . They keep upping the rates .

You've got to pay more and what a solar system does is prevent you from having to buy that . And that's where the saving is . You're generating that energy , you're using it in the home , potentially storing it in a battery , and then you're not having to pay a retailer for that energy . That's where the saving is and it's significant .

Depending on how much you spend on a solar system seven , eight grand , something around that mark you're generating energy for the next 25 years at a very reduced rate . So if you think about that investment over that lifetime , you can be paying somewhere around four to five cents a kilowatt hour in reality for that energy . So the savings are not paying .

That's the key thing . It's not paying the retailer , not paying the network operator generating that power yourself . That's the key thing . It's not paying the retailer , not paying the network operator generating that power yourself . That's where the saving is .

But in New South Wales , for example , we've got customers that are paying up to 60 cents a kilowatt hour In peak times . In peak times I mean five years ago , that might have been 30 or 40 cents a kilowatt sort of doubled in that period .

So what happened to that ? 29% in between . That's all in profit , is it ?

Everyone's costs have gone up in business , so the costs of maintaining a line , labor costs , all these things have increased as well . So , yes , those savings have probably been banked in profit . Some of it's been spent on the infrastructure , some of it on their operating costs .

But yes , I think for the most part they're probably making a bit more money than they used to .

You're shielded from those price increases by reducing the amount of energy you need from the grid and those percentages just don't hurt you much . In dollar terms . They don't hurt you as much , Right , right .

. You need to commit to being part of the VPP to access that , but the VPP provides you additional benefits , Just for anybody .

So both those two things combined deliver , you know , somewhere around about $500 to $600 in benefit to you as the consumer for being part of that . Yeah , being part of that VPP .

That's our operating area and that's where the VPP is being built , and part of it was obviously in response to the sort of disastrous fires that the South Coast community had down there . And you know I personally was there when those fires were on and you know our house didn't have any power , you know , for a whole week .

And so it's not just about , you know , moving your energy around and saving your bills , but also having backup protection as well . You know , in the event that the grid goes down for days or weeks at a time , that you've got a battery there to provide backup protection . So there are some other benefits people don't talk about as much .

It's not all about ROI and bill savings . It's about the fact that I was the only bloke in the street with the lights on and the fridge on . So it's yeah , that's sort of how we've reached it .

You use it again at night and , theoretically , as long as you're not getting 10 days of rainy weather , you will be actually able to live off the grid .

If you're in backup mode , as you say , you don't want to be baking cakes , but certainly powering your fridge , your lights , your Wi-Fi , even all of these things can stay on . You've still got most of your creature comforts . What about the PlayStation for the kids ?

100% , they actually don't use much power , but , yes , certainly , cooking , sort of maybe a spa or your pool . You might want to turn those things off , but life's essentials , those devices can stay on . And if you decided to go for two or three Powerwalls , yeah , oh yeah , you could go a lot longer and possibly completely self-sufficient .

You could have the air con running as well . So , yeah , certainly , if you've got multiple Powerwalls , you could have a party , yeah .

We have people coming back all the time for new things and now that we also do air conditioning and hot water induction , cooktops and these other products , we'll people hear that we do that now and they decide to use us for those products because they had such a good experience with us on the solar or the battery system .

So , absolutely , a good business is built off its repeat customers , you know , and if you don't have those repeat customers , then you're definitely doing something wrong .

So , yeah , we focus on providing a great experience and then , yeah , people come back when they want to do the next thing experience and then people come back when they want to do the next thing . There's people coming back and upgrading their solar now Systems that we put in over 10 years ago .

A lot of them are still working quite well , but they're a two or a three kilowatt system and customers now want a few more panels . So we stick on another five or another 10 and scale it up for customers .

We did a lot of SMA back then , which is really good German tech , and those systems just haven't missed a beat . So , yes , we usually just leave those alone and then put on a new one on another different roof space or different roof angle and go again .

But yes , we take those systems off and we do recycle most of those materials . There's companies that will take the inverters off us and break them down and take the high-value materials out of them . There's solar panel recyclers now as well , and for the most part those solar panels can be recycled and then we put a new one on .

But you know , as I said to you , yes , there's cheaper systems where we have to go and replace them , but there's plenty of smaller , older systems that are still working really , really well and we just don't touch them , you know , we just leave them . Let them run another 10 years , Right , right .

But the installation is really important too and it gets overlooked and I know this is a hard thing for customers to go . Well , am I getting a good installation off this company ?

It looks ugly in my opinion , but you know a good installer will tuck those things away where they can and , yep , upgrade the cable you know to make sure that you're not getting any sort of voltage losses or drops . So yes , the install is for me more important often than the gear .

I know this sounds counterintuitive , but getting a good installer that's been around for a while , that has made all the mistakes I guess you could say is more important for me than probably what gear you pick . And that's the kind of guy you guys employ . Of course we do . Yeah , I mean , we are very picky about who we work with .

We have a mixture of our own installers on staff . We do use some contractors too , but those contractors have often worked for us or we've been working with them for a really long time and they may as well be part of our staff .

Unfortunately , with you know , with the good , the good installers , the ones that we've sort of trained up through their apprenticeship , a lot of them actually want to move on and do their own thing , you know .

But we generally they stay part of the Solar Hub family , you know , and we keep working with them , even when they've sort of got their own little business that's set up . So we like to think that we train our installers to be the best installers in the industry and we hope they stay .

But sometimes they do move on to their own business and we're happy to engage with those businesses because we know exactly what they're like . We train them . So you know we're really happy to work with them , do you think ?

There's probably plenty of companies that have done more , but we've been doing it now for about eight or nine years , so it's a decent amount of time and we would have several thousand battery installations out there already .

So , yes , we've experienced all the joys of going through as an early adopter into that space and I think now our installers are really experienced and knowledgeable on batteries . And yeah , solar Hub would certainly be the biggest in the OCT .

So the first thing you've got to do is make sure that you've got a really good filter at the front , that you don't let poor quality products into your range . That's the first thing you can do . The second thing is obviously a great installation right .

So getting experienced tradespeople to install these products with care is the next most important thing you can do to ensure quality . And probably the third thing I think is having a really good inspection regime . So we don't just rely on the clean energy regulator inspectors or the local electrical inspectors to inspect our systems .

We actually have an internal inspection regime . So we go out and handpick a portion of the installs that we do and we go and look over them . We get an independent person to go over and make sure that it's meeting all the standards , meeting our best practice guidelines .

We think that's a really important part and something that does differentiate us from most of our competition and that we have internal auditing processes .

And if we see those errors and it's a particular install of them , we go back and do even more of an audit and make sure that we resolve those problems . So , yes , we do find problems from time to time , but we fix them , we engage with the customer , make sure that that solution is brought up to standard .

So we'd be naive to think that we are completely perfect . We're very , very good , but we make sure we find the bits where we're not good and we improve , and we're constantly looking at improving . The other aspect I think that's important to note about solar is we take safety really , really seriously too . You know this is something that does concern me .

I drive around every day and I see , you know , young , 18 year old installers on roofs , no harnesses , no ropes . You know no safety , you know .

Carrying this huge panel in the middle of a windstorm a bit of wet on the tile and I shudder because you know , I know and have heard of , you know , young people dying doing these things and you know it does worry me and it's something that really grates me when I see it , you know , but you save some money .

That are quite tragic stories and I certainly don't want that to happen to any of our guys .

Now that takes a bit more time to set up and pack down , but for me it's the best engineering control that you will have is having a protective barrier around the roof , so it's basically a fence around the roof .

Generally it goes hand in hand with cutting corners on quality . I find is that the people that are cutting corners on safety maybe save you $300 because they've not set up a proper safety system . Generally those installers are also cutting corners with what they're doing with your installation too . So those things go safety and quality go absolutely hand in hand .

You then wonder why you're getting water into your house . So those are the little things where people can cut a corner . You wouldn't notice on the day of the install , but three , four , five years later you will notice it .

Don't I just drill through the tile and put a bit of silicon ?

You know you're potentially killing someone , you know . So these are things that are all hidden . They're all out of sight , out of mind , you know , until something bad goes wrong . You sound to get really quite emotional about this stuff . I'm a bit cynical .

Perhaps I don't know if I'm emotional , but I'm pretty cynical about it because I know this is a way that you know when we get a quote that's saying gear 500 . That's what you compete against . Exactly , it's $500 less and I'm going yeah , okay , it's less . Because of these things . I know where the corners have been cut .

Unfortunately , the homeowner just doesn't see that Right . So again it comes to you know how long has your installer been around ? How long have they been doing it ? How much experience do they have ? How long have they been in the market ? Ask these questions . Go and look up how long their ABN's been registered .

Make sure they've got an electrical contractor's license . These are things that you can go and check quite easily yourself . Go and do those checks .

But just go and satisfy yourself , by going through and checking the very least , that they've got an ABN that's been around for more than six months . They've got a contractor's license . They've got some skin in the game . Check out their record . Maybe ask to talk to one of their other customers . Look at their Google reviews .

Make sure they're legitimate Google reviews .

I mean not lower ranking as a company , but when somebody has low and high , I click the low to see what some unhappy customer said and , more importantly , everybody can stuff up . What was the response of the company to anybody putting a criticism out there ? Were they ignoring it or they're actually turning it into a learning exercise ?

We saw the review , we rang him , hand-delivered the quote and , as much as he was still pretty unhappy about his religion experience , he updated his Google review to a three-star and he might even buy a system

off us . But again , everyone makes mistakes . Not every company's perfect , but it's what you do when you make those mistakes . That is the difference between a really high-quality , good company that's going to last a distance and one that's going to shut up shop in 12 months and leave you stranded .

Out of all those ones , I don't know of anyone other than Solihub that's still there . I think they've all gone , but new ones keep on coming , of course , you know , and some stay , you know around for a decent amount of time , some don't .

We also , unfortunately , get a lot of Sydney companies that you know pretend that they're local and open up a presence in Canberra and then disappear as soon as there's a warranty issue . So buy local is another really important message . You know . Buy off someone that you can walk into their showroom and eyeball them .

You know that have got a bit of skin in the game and a shop front and employing local people . That's also really important .

So we do believe in giving back and typically that's through sort of sporting organizations . But we have given away systems as well to some schools on occasion , which is also one way that we can , you know , give back to the community . So we're very community focused in Canberra . You've got to , you know , you've got to be .

I live in Canberra , I work with these people and my kids go to the same school as these people . Wherever we can help , we do .

The feed-in tariffs have gone down , and that's where a battery really comes into its own . It's when you can offset that peak time , which is generally when it's dark when you get home from work . That's when the power is the most expensive and that's when a battery provides you with the most benefit .

So I would say for most people definitely consider going solar with a battery . Look at your hot water too . That's the other big thing . If you're still using gas , consider getting a heat pump . Would be the other big suggestions that I would look at .

This is a bit of roundabout , but if it's heating the water during the daytime and you've got solar on your roof , then , effectively , that solar is going into your hot water tank , isn't it ?

So I mean , isn't a battery also adding to the comfort level of your home and you're de-risking future electricity price rises , you're de-risking in case of a blackout . You're adding value to your house . So these are all pros for a battery nowadays .

So , yes , batteries aren't just about ROI , right , there's that sense of independence which I think is , you know , a really altruistic sort of thing for customers to think about . You know , I'm standing on my own two feet here . You know that's a great thing to feel . I mean to say it bluntly .

I think a lot of people don't like their energy retailer and if they can actually give them the middle finger , that is a very nice feeling . I think it was a choice , or it was one of the independent rating agencies that said that retailers were the least trusted brand in the country . I think it was worse than banks .

I just don't like them .

Don't be wedded to one particular retailer just because you've been with them the last 15 years . They're not loyal to you . So why are you loyal to them ? You know , ultimately you're just buying a commodity . Electricity is just electrons flowing from some point in a generator to you right ? Anyone can sell you these things .

That VPP offer that I talked about is with Actuagel . It's a really good deal . But if you're not happy with the deal that you're currently getting and you think you're getting ripped off , move , ring around some of these retailers . Ring your current retailer and see if you can get on a better plan .

Nearly always they'll find something cheaper for you to keep you . They want to keep you .

Shop around , you know , and don't be afraid to leave , because when you leave , that's probably when you get the best deal .

I mean , you didn't even connect to the internet back then right no monitoring . No monitoring . You know , you just plug in and , that said , that's probably why they're still working . You know , a lot of them were just set and forget .

These days , everyone wants to connect to the internet , everyone wants to see what it's doing . You know , they want to see it right down to panel level , as to what each panel is doing . They want to control their heat pump and they , you know , want to talk to it through Amazon Alexa and have it on their phone , and you know . So there's all these .

You know they've become computers , right ? You know it's not just about converting DC to AC anymore , it's . They've got computer chips in them and they're actually doing a whole bunch of data processing as well .

So , yes , it's gotten more complicated from an installation point of view , but also gotten a little bit harder from a support point of view , because we've got a couple of people that just sort of sit on the phones and help people reconnect their inverters to the internet , for example . This thing can happen the Wi-Fi can drop out .

So , yes , they have got more complicated and , in response to that , we've ensured that we've resourced our business in the right way to support customers , because it's no longer just , as I said , set and forget , walk away .

There's now all sorts of things going on with that system from a monitoring point of view , from a control point of view , and we've got people answering phones , answering emails to help customers when things do go wrong .

We take responsibility for that and we really pride ourselves on being able to help customers and answer the phone and respond and get out to help . I mean , there's actually a . If you call us after hours , we've got a 24-7 phone line . There's always someone there to answer your call . Wow .

So if you've got an emergency or a question , we're there to answer it . So even I think I've even been called on Christmas day before you know . So it's yeah , that's something that we differentiates us from the rest is the fact that we have that support and maintenance function in our business .

We just have to switch it back on and it reconnects . So sometimes it's actually a really simple fix , but you've got to have someone there on the other end of the phone to help you through it .

Every time he sends me a really cheap solar quote system , I check the company out . They're usually gone for three months . Six months later they're gone again . So I always stand in front of like a truck and say don't do it , not with this company . Don't go for the bargain , pay the proper price , get the right company . I turned away . I was on holidays .

He got his solar system At my son's Christmas party , birthday party . He's sitting next to me and telling me about his $7,000 roof repair he now needs because five monkeys crawled over his roof and broke 28 tiles , took the ridge caps off and the roof was actually so brittle to tiles that side of the roof they should have never installed it .

Can't find the company Gone and I was sitting there inside of me seething and going . You bloody idiot . I've been telling you for two years this is what's going to happen and you still got stuck by the bargain and now you're paying the price . His whole roof , all the water damage , that's additional the mould , all of this , and he's got a huge stress now .

He could have avoided all of that . Have you had stories like that ?

So , yes , it happens a lot , it happens far too much , and the thing that probably makes me most angry is the fact that these companies get away with it . They continue to get away with it . That's probably the biggest frustration .

But if the system lasts you 20 , 25 years versus a cheaper system like it lasts you five , well , you know your payback's significantly better going for the system that lasts you the distance right .

Find someone that's been around for I would say at least five years would be the sort of benchmark that I would look at that's got proper skin in the game . Find someone that's got a support phone that you can ring with technicians there to respond to issues . If you've got them , make sure they're licensed .

If you want someone with a shop front , it's probably the other thing that I would look at too . You know if they're nowhere to be found and you know the registered address is some unit block at the top of a commercial building , run away .

What you've got to do with export limiting what the grid approvals look like , you know , often we find when people come , maybe down to the South Coast of New South Wales , for example , and they've bought off a Sydney mob , is that their system . No one's actually done a certificate of electrical safety , no one's told anyone that they're installing the system .

They haven't told the network operator , they haven't registered the system . They probably didn't even use qualified tradesperson . So you've got this system on your roof . That , yeah , you've got a pretty good deal on . But as far as a network operator's concerned , it's not even there . So guess what they can do ?

They can come along and they can switch it off Because it doesn't comply . Correct , yeah , and where are you stuck ? You're stuck with a system that's tagged out that you can't touch , absolute dead duck . You've got to drive to Sydney and complain on some kind of Well , that company isn't coming down .

They sent a team , as I said , to do two installs once a month and they drove five hours away . They're not coming to help you . So that's the difference between using someone out of town and someone local . So understand the local rules . It's their name on the line and they're going to follow those local regulations and that protects you as the consumer .

I would say another half an hour , give me a bell in 25 and we wind it down . Okay With Ben , we probably have to get him back another time . He can pay again . Are you paying me ? I'm learning , I'm happy to .

That means that in that 25-year period if something goes wrong from a manufacturing perspective with that panel , they'll replace it . Now some retailers will pay not just for the part , they'll also pay for the labor right . But then there's for the labour right , but then there's a performance warranty .

Now that performance warranty is different for every different panel out there and there's different ways to measure it , different lines on graphs that you see on the spec sheets

. Ultimately , the performance warranty I don't think is worth the paper it's written on . It says that the panel is going to perform at X . You know , let's say it's 80% at year 25 of what it did in year one . Right , and they warrant that .

Now , in order to prove , for example , that a panel you know is performing at 79% at year 20 , geez , you've got to have a lot of data and a lot of confidence in the data as well . I mean I've got to get the panel off the roof in the first place Exactly to check it . So , as I said , I just wouldn't worry about a performance warranty .

There's manufacturers that promise 40-year performance warranties and you see these sort of numbers You're like it's just not worth the paper it's written on . Have a look at the product warranty that keeps the manufacturer on the hook to replace that panel if there's a fault in that panel , and make sure that it's 25 years .

So , as you said , running conduit and cable into the roof space , installing the racking system that we put on the roof , safety switches , safety , any switches that we provide , anything that our tradespeople have done to install that system , we will warrant for 10 years . Right Now , batteries are also pretty complicated from a warranty point of view .

Most will say it's 10 years , but you've got to read the fine print because some will warrant a certain throughput , and by that I mean how many times you can charge and discharge that battery through that lifetime . Some will have quite a low throughput , some will have quite a high throughput .

Some will say , at the end of that 10 years , we're going to warrant 60% . Some will say that we're going to warrant 70% , so hang on .

I would think you'd really want 70% at the end of that 10 years , right At a minimum and you should be looking for things that are obviously shooting higher than that .

Throughput's a little bit more of a challenging one to sort of cite numbers now , because it depends on whether some manufacturer be connecting it to a VPP or not as to what throughput they look . But it's an easy way to compare right ?

So if you're looking at two different batteries , grab the spec sheets of both batteries , go into the warranty of both batteries and eyeball it for yourself .

Have a look at how long the warranty term is , have a look at the degradation at the end of that warranty period and have a look at the throughput that they're warranting and compare the two , and often you'll find that one's more expensive for a reason it's because those things are better .

We've been installing some Enphase batteries and some power batteries as well and we really haven't had widespread issues with those batteries recently .

If you go back four , five , six years , yes , when the battery industry was quite new and there were a lot of early adopters around , there were a lot of teething issues , but for the most part now those things have been solved and batteries are fairly easy to install and pretty reliable .

And if I would have an issue with my battery do you send me to the manufacturer or are you going to look after it ? No , so you'd always come back to us in the first instance . We're the ones that answer the phone . We'll help you diagnose it . We've got to make sure that it's not something that we can fix or something that else has gone wrong .

And then if we determine that it is a warranty issue , then we will engage with the manufacturer to support customers through that warranty process to get a replacement , and then in most cases we'll go out and undertake that replacement ourselves and we'll deal with the warranty and the paperwork side for our customers .

There's really nothing customers have to do in that situation . If there is a warranty issue , we take care of all of it .

They'll make you fill in forms , make you give them data , all these sort of things . So you know it's not in their interest to give you a free replacement .

So it does start out with product selection and making sure that the products you put in at the start are high-quality , reliable offers that have been well tested before we install them . So we don't get the warranty issues .

So you know , we've been suppliers of Enphase micro inverters for quite a few years now and it makes sense to put their battery in for customers who've already got an Enphase system . So yes , we do all those three .

But they're all batteries that we would recommend and are comfortable recommending to customers and happy to install .

So by that I mean , if you're generating solar , it might make sense to heat your hot water . If you've got excess solar , rather than exporting to the grid , direct it into the battery . If your battery's full well , how about we pre-cool or pre-heat your home ?

Or what about , if I have my EV plugged in , send it off to my battery Correct , yeah , so a home energy management system will deal with all of those energy flows , but it's about priority , right ? It's about what things you do first .

If I've got excess solar , maybe I want to charge my battery first , maybe I want to put it into my car first , and so a home energy system will generally provide some sort of interface to the customer that allows them to set these rules up and their priorities for themselves .

That's what HEMS is all about , and , as I said , there's multiple ways to tackle this . Some of the inverter manufacturers , like Enphase and SolarEdge and Fronius and Tesla they're sort of looking at it from their angle , but you do have some independent companies looking at this too .

So a good HEM solution will take away all that complexity for you right , and allow you to control those devices from one interface , the problem being that a lot of manufacturers don't want to play ball right so they want you to stay in their infrastructure .

So you're sort of seeing that battle play out , I think , and I don't think there's one that will necessarily win out over the other . I don't think this is a sort of Betamax VHS type battle . I think both will coexist . Some customers want one manufacturer for everything . They want the ease of that , they want the flexibility of that .

You're probably going to pay more , right ? Others want to buy that thing because they like that and this thing or this manufacturer like that and I'll do it more piecemeal , and so they're more like the sort of Android people that are going to get a slightly different experience . So there's a place for both .

But the industry does need to do a bit of work to catch up on the standards . It's something that's been worked on by lots of industry organisations at the moment and standards organisations . This isn't just an Australia problem , it's an around the world problem to make all these devices play nicely with each other .

You know our consultants that go out and do the site visits need a huge amount of knowledge to understand you know what we can do in the home , how we can get these things to communicate with each other . It's very technical .

Puzzle solar is when four different installers come in and all try to make it work , and that's not always a good experience .

Pick someone local , pick someone that's got some skin in the game , pick someone that's been around for more than five years , because they'll be there to help you with the other things that you want to do in your home , and I'll set you up right from the start .

But it's a natural evolution , I think , for a lot of solar companies to get into these other spaces , because these things can't be discreet in their own right . They are , through HEMS , increasingly been interconnected .

You know , if I've got excess solar and I'm getting three cents to export it to the grid , well , why don't I turn my air conditioner on and pre-cool my house so that when I get home it's nice and cool ? Why not use that solar energy , you know , to cool my house down or heat my house up in the winter ?

It's that increasingly , there's linkages between what your solar systems is doing and what other energy-consuming devices are doing in your home , like air con , like heat pumps , like EV chargers right , so there's a connectivity between these things .

But if you know an air con company comes out , well , they're just going to say do the air con first . Of course they are , you know . But if someone like Solar Hub comes out and looks at your home , looks at your bills , looks at your energy profile , looks at who's in the house , Would you look at ? my insulation in the roof too . No , we don't .

Actually that's one thing we don't do , but I always of view it's like a sieve right . So insulation is something you should definitely do . It's not something that we do as a company but I would always recommend it .

If you've already got solar , we may say , oh , maybe don't do a battery yet . We don't think you're the perfect case for it . Maybe you should do your heat pump next and then do your air con and then look if you've got a bit of money in a few years , then we'll do your battery right .

So it's about setting up a plan for you as the consumer which is in your best interest . What are the best uses of your money ? You know not everyone's home electrification thing up front . It's usually a journey that takes a few years . What things should you do first ? What things should you do last ? So we help with that prioritisation .

The criteria are a little bit different depending on whether you're buying solar or whether you're buying a heat pump . It's a bit more stringent on the solar . So the rules around whether you can access the funding but that's certainly the first thing I would look at is generally are there any interest-free sort of government backed financing programs around ?

After that , there's green loans that you can access through companies like Bright or Plenty that provide interest bearing . So they do have an interest rate , but often it's a subsidised interest rate , so it's a little bit lower than the normal interest rates and you can use that to buy products for your home .

So , yes , there's all sorts of options , from paying cash up front to government subsidised interest-free loans , through to interest rate reduced loans . You know where you're not paying the full whack of interest . You're getting a little bit of a subsidy off the government .

We take our company culture really seriously and and are very supportive of each other . So , yeah , we have a whole range of people , a whole range of ages , a whole range of backgrounds and I think I think that puts us in good stead . You know , not every solution has the same answer .

You know , having different perspectives and different views in the business is really healthy .

We actually have a um , uh , a nine day fortnight at solar hub . Um , I know it's maybe a bit progressive , but we um , we still work similar , the same sort of hours .

But yeah , every um , every fortnight , um , you get a Friday off and people use that to do their shopping , do their chores , spend the day with their kids , pick their kids up from school or what have you . So it's something that we implemented quite a few years ago now and I think people love it .

People work really hard when they're there and we're firm believers in that and sometimes long days , but hey , every second Friday I get the day off to go do what I want and I think that really leads to a happy culture .

We treat them like they are part of Solar Hub . No backpackers , no , no , these are companies that we've had long-term relationships with that we treat as part of the broader team .

The issue with good installers when we have people do their apprenticeship with us , get all the way through to being qualified , quite often the best tradespeople at some point want to go and do their own thing , you know .

So for a company like ours that's been growing as much as we have over the last 14 years , we like to maintain a relationship with those installers when they go out and potentially run their own companies , and so typically we find ourselves sort of sitting there going well , hang on a minute . You know that's a really good tradesperson .

Maybe we should use him as a contractor rather than bringing someone else on . And so we end up finding ourselves with both internal installers and also external contractors . But a lot of them have been through their training with us so they know how we do things .

You know people , as you say , want a really good deal and what that means when you go with a cheaper deal is generally someone's got to cut a corner to make a profit out of that or even just to break even out of that deal .

Or they're doing them at really high volume , you know so they're giving you a slightly better price , but they're doing thousands of them and you know they're employing anyone they can get their hands on to do these installs . You know they don't care about quality .

So typically those words are used to describe either installers or companies that don't care about the installations and the quality and the safety as well .

Do you sometimes kind of wonder if going the quality way is the right way ? No , never .

The warranty issues will kill you . Focusing on quality is the only way to ensure that your business is going to be around for a long time . So I take those things really seriously . It's probably one of the big reasons why we've been around for a long time . So I take those things really seriously .

It's probably one of the big reasons why we've been around for as long as we have is that we've taken quality seriously from the start . It's been part of our ethos from day one .

about you . You're kind of a bit of an innovator . So what are you guys doing , innovative in the space for , let's say , ev charging ?

So there's a number of public charges that we've been putting in in the Canberra region and that's about to expand quite quickly over the next six to 12 months and those are branded Solar Hub charge charges . They range from your sort of fast AC 22 kilowatt charges right the way up to sort of faster DC 50 to 60 kilowatt charges .

But like anything Solar Hub does , we've really focused on the customer experience . So unfortunately for a lot of the public charging infrastructure they got a bit of a bad name Number one people rocking up and they're not on right , so these charges are unavailable . They've got faults .

You know customers can't use them because they're down and they're waiting on parts . People aren't supporting the network . So this has been a bit of a blight on the charging industry for the past few years . Is the actual public charges themselves have been reasonably unreliable .

So we focused again on testing to make sure that the charges we're using are fit for purpose and reliable . But again it comes back to support . We've got technicians there and available that if there is an issue with these charges that we're out there fixing it , you know , as quickly as we can to get that back up and running .

So these charges can be accessed via our app . You can download it from the Apple or Android stores . It's called Solar Hub Charge . It allows you to tap onto these charges , put in your credit card details and plug your car in and off you go .

You can charge your car at one of these public charging stations and there's about to be a lot more of them put in over the next six to 12 months .

Our aim is to have a network across that whole area that we operate in , so a charger no more than sort of maybe every 100 kilometers . We've got a charger there on our network .

So , again , it's about responsiveness , it's about the reliability of the network , it's about having technicians on the ground to be able to fix problems if they crop up .

Have I got lots of really tall trees around my house ? I mean , there are times , Marcus , where you know we come to a house , we sit down with a customer , we do a walk around and we politely say look , sorry , I don't think solar's for you .

So there are times that we do walk away and the irony is we'll often rock up and there'll be six quotes on the kitchen table and you're sitting there scratching your head going well , why don't any of these other companies say , hey , this is not a good idea ?

So we don't say it often , but there are cases where in very heavily wooded or shaded areas , it's not ideal and that's not a good investment . Then it comes back to well , okay , you know , as long as we don't have too much shading or we can mitigate the shading , it's only in one part of the house and not the other .

Is putting solar panels on the best orientations right ? And that starts with north and obviously then east and west , you know , are not as optimal , but they're still okay . Look , even if it's slightly southwest , slightly southeast , those roof positions are okay too . But ultimately it's about designing a system and when you say what the system is going to do .

So we'll put all these orientations into our tool and it will spit a number out what you're going to generate in the winter what you're going to generate in the summer , any sort of shading factors that are applied . You see all this in the data that we provide you when we provide a quote . But it's about being honest about that .

You know , the last thing I want is a customer ringing up in two years and say , hey , you know , you said the system was going to do X and it only does Y . What's going on ? You know you've got to be upfront with your customers about what that system's going to do . And too often I see other companies that put no shading factors on that .

You know , even though they're putting panels in the south , they in their tool they model it as north and you know they completely lie about what that system is going to do . And customers go hang on , your system says it's going to do less than this guy . Why is that ? I'm like , well , because they haven't done this , this and this .

So hang on Our quotes are conservative , but on point .

If we'd approached it by lying to customers about what their systems are going to do , overstating the savings people were going to have , then we wouldn't be here , because people would have , you know , rounded us on social media or on Google reviews , or not , told their friends about how good we are , and we wouldn't be standing here today .

So if you want to be in this business for the long time , you've got to be honest , you've got to be upfront , you've got to be ethical .

There are good companies all around Australia who follow , go local , go quality , sell with ethics . They're the key things .

That's the key thing . If they've been over five , good . If they've been over 10 , fantastic . If they've been over 10 , fantastic . Those are the companies you want to find .

This isn't if you're installing it , this is if you're selling it . It amazes the amount of companies that don't have this and , unfortunately , it's not well enforced right . So get the name of their company . Go onto the New South Wales Fair Trading website . You can look this stuff up . Enter the name . Find their contractor's license .

If they've got a contractor's license , it's usually a pretty good sign , right , that they've got their own installers , their own electricians on staff and they've got some skin in the game . Those are the top three things that you need to focus on On product . Look at what is out there . Look at what your friends and family have done .

Ask them about their experiences . I don't think this is done enough . Don't be afraid to tap into your networks , you know . And if someone says , hey , don't go with this company , listen that's a reason you know , don't then go and do it anyway because they got a good deal right .

If someone's had a bad experience , it's probably going to be replicated over and , over and over again . So listen to those networks . Read their worst reviews .

Sometimes , dare I say it , the cowboys do remarkably pull off a good install for one customer . It does happen . It's rare , but it can happen . So you've got to do all of these checks .

That's the next thing . So often that's sending it off to your network operator to make sure that we've got the right approvals to install your system . So we do that . Then we make sure we've got the gear . Often it's in the warehouse , sometimes it's not , sometimes there's specialty things we've got to order in .

So we make sure we've got that gear and then we schedule our installers to go out . Now , depending on the situation , it can all be done in a day . We have done nearly full home electrifications in a day , in a single day . Quite often , though , it does take more than a day if you're going to do a full home electrification right .

So a solar and battery system can generally be done before two o'clock in the afternoon . Dv charger might take a couple more hours . But an air conditioning is a whole other crew right , particularly for a duct system and that's going to take the minimum of a day , sometimes a little bit longer . So we will always coordinate those resources .

We'll talk to customers , make sure they're home , make sure they're available , make sure they've got any questions or there's dogs that need to be secured , you know , for when we're there we help them through that process and lead them through every step of the way .

But it generally takes minimum a day to do a sort of solar and battery and then if we're doing full home electrification air con , hot water it generally takes at least two days .

I mean , our installers do a good job of handing that over on the day , but often until you actually start using an app or playing with the controller for the air con , you don't really have all the questions there immediately . So we're always there to answer questions for the days after , when you start getting familiar with the system that you've purchased .

That's coming from solar or from the grid , if you need it as a backup , and having a charging point in your garage or wherever you park your car and the ability to plug your car in . So that's the first thing .

Where the revolution is going to come is when we start talking about power flows in the other direction .

So people talk about vehicle to home , v to H , vehicle to grid , v to G , and they talk about they use these acronyms to talk about energy flows that start coming from the car , either into the home or , in some cases , maybe all the way into the grid to take advantage of very high feed-in tariffs at certain times of the day .

So that's , I think , the big revolution . We're installing EV chargers every day now for people that buy new cars and they're working . Well , you know , they charge their car overnight , they charge their car on the weekend . We can put smart charging on to charge it from the solar if there's excess . We can do these things .

Now the big revolution is going to come when we start thinking about these cars not as cars but as batteries . They're big batteries on wheels that move around and that battery is the most valuable part of that car .

It's a big energy bank , and if you control the flows of energy in and out of that car right , you can actually make some money or at least reduce your bills .

Now there's a bit of standards , like anything , that have got to play catch up here to make sure we've got the right standards in place , make sure we've got the safety right for these things . Before you know , we implement them widespread . But in the next two to three years we're going to see a lot of innovation in that vehicle-to-grid , vehicle-to-home space .

I remember at the time we were like you know , you're just selling , you know , three , four , five kilowatt systems to homeowners and you know this is one of the first big systems that we did , you know , and I thought 20 kilowatts was big back then . I was super proud of it . In fact it's still running . Super proud of it . In fact it's still running .

The system's fine , had no issues with it since we installed it . But yeah , now we're doing much bigger systems . Commonly we're doing 100 kilowatt systems on factories , but we do right the way up to half megawatt projects as well 500 kilowatts on factories and commercial buildings . So , yes , it's a big part of our business .

It's actually a growing part of our business as well . You know businesses . If we think homeowners have been paying a lot for electricity , you should see what businesses are paying for electricity . They're paying even more in some cases and then being slapped with things like demand charges as well . No-transcript .

So homes generally it's weighted more to sort of mornings and afternoons is when the high power demands are , but businesses , it's right in the middle of the day . And guess what's happening in the middle of the day ? That's when the solar is at its best . So we do find that solar paybacks for businesses are actually lower than they are for homeowners .

So I sometimes scratch my head as to why not every business has done it already , because the savings are huge for businesses , every business .

I don't think we've sort of come across one where the payback , you know , doesn't impress every sort of CFO that we run the proposal under . Usually they get a scratch in the head going . Well , why have I not done this earlier ?

Like for businesses , as I said , the payback's better than for most homeowners , so it's something every business owner should be looking at .

There's not a lot that generally needs to go back to the grid , so the case for batteries is a little bit more remote . On commercial , there's some commercial businesses that do benefit from batteries , but for the most part going big on the solar is generally the best thing they can do .

Recently we did the National Museum of Australia I don't know how familiar you are with Canberra , but we did an installation there Also for the National Gallery it's another sort of well-known name and the ANU as well the Australian National Gallery it's another sort of well-known name and the ANU as well , the Australian National University .

We've done quite a few installations for the ANU and in addition to that we've done probably 20 or 30 schools around Canberra as well over the years under various school programs . So quite a lot of well-known businesses that we've dealt with . They're often return customers . They've they've got upgrades and additional sites that they want to put us in .

So yeah , we do get a lot of return business in Canberra as well .

If you're going to be on their building it's a work site you know they certainly don't want you cutting corners on safety and quality . They generally got their own facilities managers , their own internal auditors , their own you know , work safe people .

So we find that the quality and safety aspects really step us above most of our competitors and that we take these things seriously . We've got really good processes , riso accredited , all this sort of stuff , and businesses take that seriously and value that . So I think that's why we do so well in the commercial space .

You take what the government says with a grain of salt , but trajectories I have . I think that the rate of electrification needs to be much quicker than what the government's saying now and , like anything the government are going to get , you know , five years out from the target and go . Oh no , you know we need to incentivise this even further .

We need to put more money on the table . So I think this electrification space is going to really take off and I think there's going to be a lot of money thrown at it by both state and territory and federal governments over the next few years . So that's the big takeaway .

Evs yes , you know that's obviously another space that's going to take off , but I think for our business , where we're going to see a lot of growth is in the electrification side . So air conditioning , heat pumps , solar batteries , cooktops .

Have a look at people's bills . We've done all that legwork so we're really ready to hit the ground running on this now and I think coming to one provider to do the whole thing is going to be really valuable for people , because you know you think about if you want to go and get an air con , you go get six quotes .

And then you want to swap your hot water and you get another six quotes . And you know you want to do your solar and you get another six quotes . I mean that's 18 quotes , 18 companies that you're going to have to deal with , then trying to pick which ones you go with . And the left hand doesn't talk to the right hand .

This is really where I think we're going to come into . Our own is providing that turnkey end-to-end electrification solution for homeowners . That's what we're focusing on .