The One Skill Every Marketer Needs (But Most Are Doing Wrong)

Learn the proven strategies for transitioning from just another contact to a true champion in your industry . Don't miss these insights that can transform the way you approach digital marketing . So you got to make sure you stay tuned to this next episode of the Digital Marketing Coach podcast .

Good thing you've got Neil on your side , because Neil Schaefer is your digital marketing coach . Helping you grow your business with digital-first marketing , one episode at a time . This is your digital marketing coach , and this is Neil Schaefer .

So a few things have happened over the last week that I think you should be aware of , and that's really the role of this few minutes that I spend before the beginning of each episode .

One is that Google unveiled , amongst other things and I think at the end of the year we're having this big battle between Google and open AI for mind share and thought leadership in the world of consumer generative AI . But Google has unveiled Project Mariner . Project Mariner represents this next evolution of AI , which are AI agents .

So Project Mariner is this groundbreaking experiment that lets AI navigate the web for you .

Using it , or I should say using this engine it will be able to shop , book , travel and more , by controlling your Chrome browser as if it were a person Still in early testing , but really this tool could redefine how we interact with the internet , moving from direct engagement to having AI handle tasks on our behalf .

It's a glimpse into the future of online convenience , and I think many believe this is the direction that AI will be heading in 2025 .

Instagram launched new trial reels , which is a feature offering creators a low pressure way to test content by sharing reels with non followers first , so it allows you to experiment with new topics or styles without worrying about alienating existing audiences .

Creators can review engagement metrics after 24 hours and then decide whether to share broadly or scrap the idea . Right now it's only for a small number of creators , but it is a smart tool for refining content strategy and reaching fresh viewers , and we expect that it's going to be rolling out globally soon .

So that's a pretty interesting feature that I've never seen on a social network . So if you're creating reels and you want to experiment with different content types , different scripts , different ways of storytelling , different animations , what have you ? I think it's an awesome idea . I really applaud Instagram for doing that .

Also , in another way in which social media is trying to encourage more content creation , youtube is now offering their AI-powered dubbing to more creators . Now , I have yet to get this feature , but it allows you . I guess it's because I'm not in the YouTube Partner Program .

Yet you need to have a certain number of watch time per year in order to be accepted , but the tool automatically translates and dubs videos into multiple languages , broadening your audience reach with minimal effort .

While current AI dubs may lack natural tone , future updates promise improvements in emotion and ambience , so if you want to make your content accessible globally , you'll be able to do this . Now until now , like what I've done is I have downloaded well , I should say .

I download the video , I feed it into otterai , which I began using really recently instead of CastMagic , just in recognition that Otterai is probably the best AI transcription tool that's been around , so why not use it for what it's good at ? And then I download the SRT file replacing the automatic captions . You can then auto translate it into other languages .

I then go into my analytics . I look at what languages I have viewers from around the world looking at my content in , and invariably it's Hindi , spanish , vietnamese and Japanese , sometimes Punjabi , sometimes German , sometimes Russian , but inevitably I usually end up translating my content into four or five different languages .

And then I also use either chat , gpt and or Google Translate to translate the title and description as well , which you can do by language to get a little bit of extra international SEO with YouTube . So , all right , well , that's it with the YouTube . And then , finally , tiktok .

Even though supposedly it may be banned , they continue to expand their TikTok shop and they are really transforming social commerce . They have new features like smart plus , automated ads and TikTok symphony AI tools to help simplify selling and marketing for businesses of all sizes . I continue to get email invites to join TikTok shop .

I even recently did a phone call with TikTok to go over what that means . Right now it's not available for digital products , only physical products . It is on my to-do list of many , many other things . Now , if you didn't know , all this news comes from our weekly newsletter .

If you go to newsletterneilschafercom , you could subscribe and be the first to get this information . Also , I also want to let you know that just over the past few days , I have now launched my newsletters . I'm actually publishing them on the internet , like you would on a sub stack or a beehive , so obviously you can subscribe .

You can also go back into my previous newsletters to check out what it's about and if you like what you see , you can subscribe there as well . You know they say that generative AI for search is requiring more and more businesses and creators to really publish more content everywhere .

So publishing newsletter content onto the web to me is a no-brainer , and ConvertKit has always had this . I've been looking at Beehive recently . I think I mentioned this to you . I've decided to stick with ConvertKit . Beehive still is missing one or two features that are well to me . They were deal breakers .

But knowing that ConvertKit has this functionality , that now I'm taking full advantage of and , like I said , you can go over to newsletterneilschafercom and check it out . All right on to personal news .

So I want to share with you a true story of what happened to me recently , as the future of generative AI and its relationship to content creation forced me to make a quick decision about my future .

So I already hinted at publishing my newsletters on the web gives the large language models more content , but it associates me and aligns me with more content as well , in hopes that more of these generative AI search engines , when they spit out an answer with a link , they'll be using my content right .

So large language models rely on massive amounts of data , much of which raises questions about legality and quality . As AI evolves , there is a growing concern about the scarcity of original content and the risk of AI models cannibalizing themselves by consuming their own outputs .

What I mean by this is , as we know , people cannibalizing themselves by consuming their own outputs . What I mean by this is , as we know , most of the generative AI that we think of today . It has already gone through all of the internet . It's already , you know , gone through a lot of books .

Whether they were legally or had the copyrights to do so is another question , but pretty much it's already gone through all the content that's available .

Now it has to continually go through new content , to add new content to its model , but unfortunately , as we all know , a lot of newer content on the internet is AI generated and therefore the large language models need new content .

But if it's just regurgitated content that's already in the model , it is going to decrease the quality of AI for all of us , and that's what I mean there . So Nina Schick is an AI expert . She predicts that by 2025 , 90% of online content could be AI generated , which amplifies this need for authentic , high quality content to train these systems effectively .

Beyond content marketing , businesses might soon acquire publications solely for their original material to view their own AI models , and what I mean by this is we've already seen some publications . You know Sam Rush .

You know buying out Backlinko Recently they bought out some other publications for search engine rankings but companies are also beginning to create their own AI models , and , by buying out content , that obviously gives you access to the content which you can utilize in your own AI model . You know David Armano , one of the smartest guys in marketing .

He has already suggested that every company will eventually build its own large language model , and I agree . I already know that this is what Fortune 50 brands are doing today . This , though , raises critical questions about ownership and compensation , especially when companies begin using employee-generated content to train their models .

Companies are asking employees I mean , you know , if you have an internal Slack , internal emails , that content may be fed into the large language models of that company without your knowing it . So Bal Tran is an attorney , patent attorney , founder of patentpccom .

He's also a member of my Digital First community , and I asked him for his insights and he was saying you know , similar to patent law , the rights to content often depend on an employee's role . If hired to create content , the employer likely owns it , which begs the question should employment contracts explicitly addressed AI usage of employee generated content ?

And what about UGC creators or user-generated content creators ? Should they negotiate LLM rights alongside advertising terms ? These are new dilemmas that , as we unpeel the onion of AI , companies need to start thinking about this and we as businesses , as marketers , as content creators , need to begin thinking about this as well .

I especially needed to begin thinking about this because I recently faced this dilemma firsthand . A publisher of one of my books contacted me and proposed a deal with an AI firm . So my book would be fed to the AI firm's large language model and , whatever the AI firm paid the publisher , they would split the licensing fee 50-50 .

But to me , the fairness of the arrangement was questionable . Shouldn't factors like word count ? And apparently I did an internet search they were offering the same deal to all their authors . So shouldn't factors like word count , niche rarity and future value to LLMs play a role in determining compensation ?

And to me , terms were dictated without room for negotiation and , as a former B2B sales professional , I tend to think when the terms are being dictated to me , I'm not really getting a good deal . So , as AI companies generate billions in revenue , the value of original content , whether it's books or blogs or business materials will only grow .

For now , authors like me must grapple with these issues , but soon , anyone creating content will face similar decisions . So I ask you how will you protect the value of your content in the age of generative AI ? I decided to not go with that contract . I said I don't want your money .

I wanna retain the AI rights of my content , and we'll see what the future brings . And I'll tell you . Just yesterday , I had a company reach out to me . We'd love to convert your blog into a book . If you give us permission , we'll create a draft for you Once again . Companies that are coming for our content , looking to make money off it .

And are those deals fair to content creators ? I don't know . There's no market price for this . It's something that we're all trying to figure out . But I wanted to share that story with you because this is happening today , in December of 2024 . And I think we are at the tip of the iceberg . All right , so let's get into today's interview .

And today's interview is sponsored by Digital Threads , the small business and entrepreneur playbook for digital-first marketing , my new digital marketing playbook for modern marketing that I published only about two months ago . It is already winning multiple awards around the world . It's already had bestseller status in Amazon .

If you haven't checked it out , go over to neilschafercom slash digital threads Amazon one word . And if you want to download a free preview , they are still available at neilschafercom slash digital threads dash or hyphen preview , all right . So today I'm excited to share a great conversation I had with Jeff Lerner .

Jeff is a fractional CMO based out of San Diego , same Southern California . He's also the author of the Power of Relationships in Professional Growth .

He wrote the book a few years ago and it's not directly related to what he does today as a fractional CMO , but I thought that it was actually a great book with a lot of advice , and I think that you know the importance of building genuine connections , not just networking , and how those relationships can drive your success .

Whether you're an entrepreneur or marketer or just starting out in your career , I think these relationships are really critical for success in marketing and in business . So I wanted to pick his brain and have a conversation around that .

Jeff shared his personal experiences , practical tips on finding the right mentors , advocating for your network and creating a personal brand that resonates . I think you're going to like this interview , so , without further ado . Here is my interview with Jeff Lerner .

And I think relationships how they drive success is something that every once in a while we really need to get ingrained and get reminded of , because when we work with numbers and KPIs and ROI , we tend to forget that at the end or behind those numbers are people right .

Or , if we have a team of marketers or we're an agency owner , how well these people perform , how well our relationships are with them to help them perform . And if you're just getting started out , obviously having relationships with seniors above you that are mentors can have a critical role on your success .

I know that when I look back at things that I've learned , I always think of people that I've been fortunate enough to work under , that I was able to learn from . In fact , I would only join a company if I felt like I could learn something there .

And even as a fractional CMO and it'll be interesting to ask today's guest as well , because he's also a fractional CMO , I tend to like to work with companies where I can learn something as well , believe it or not , based on their situation , based on their niche , based on their industry .

So today we're going to be talking about , from contacts to champions , how relationships drive success , from contacts to champions how relationships drive success , and there's no better person to talk about it than the author of this book , the Power of Relationships in Professional Growth , jeff Lerner .

Jeff , welcome to the your Digital Marketing Coach podcast , my friend .

But I just want to get your backstory on where you came from , what prompted you to write this book and how has that affected the work that you do with your clients today ? I know that's a lot to consume , so take your time , but I'll give you the mic right now .

But I wanted to get a broader experience in the marketing world . So I went to an agency to kind of learn like what agencies do , how do they balance budgets for their clients , why do they put X dollars here versus Y dollars there .

And after doing that for a couple of years I then went corporate marketing world and now is really in the weeds of all things how to take and build brands for organizations .

And I started at Cricket Wireless working to kind of help build that strategy through an acquisition by AT&T and then kind of since then have worked almost exclusively with startups and small companies on what is their go-to-market strategy and how do they build their brand , on what is their go-to-market strategy and how do they build their brand the book came out of .

The long story that I'll make short is when my wife and I had our second kid , she decided that she wanted to go back home where she's from in Maine for a couple of days with our older son , and so I was home alone with the baby for a week and I had all of these thoughts of like , what are the things that I've learned as I've gotten further along in

my career that man I wish I knew when I was younger . And it started off as , like , I'll write an article . I mean , I've written articles in Ad Age and Click Z and some other industry publications and I thought , okay , this will be something of that nature .

And after a couple of nights , you know , putting the baby to sleep , and I'm sitting down with kind of nothing to do , I started , you know , working on this . What I thought would be a , you know , short article turned into you know , a few articles . And then as I went , I realized , okay , there's some more to it here and turned it into a book .

But the goal of it was kind of really just to help people , especially early in their careers , especially those who may be struggling with advancement and other things , to understand that there's so much more that goes into relationship building than just shaking someone's hand or connecting with them on LinkedIn .

And so this was kind of like my you know , learn from my mistakes if you will book and you know , do things differently .

So you really did not have any business objective per se , and it's funny , because when I wrote my first book Windmill , networking , understanding , leveraging and Maximizing LinkedIn it was for me a networking vehicle , right , it was the same thing like share my feelings and my opinions and my experience , and that ended up really bringing me to who I am today .

So that book for you , though , was more of a let me just get it all on paper , share it out there , and has it served as a vehicle to bring new people in your organization , or new customers , or make new friends , or how is that just ? You know , I often get a lot of business owners and agency owners like , hey , neil , should I write a book ?

What do you think ? What would your advice be ?

Like that wasn't why I did it , and at the time when I wrote it I didn't have my own fractional CMO business . So it really was like a very kind of just like therapeutic way of me just putting my ideas out there and then saying to other people hey , do you need help with this ? Like here it is .

And then , if you talk a little bit in your intro about mentors like I've had some great mentors over my career , so if I can serve as a mentor to someone because they read the book or they get to know me and we build a relationship that way great , I've now satisfied my own internal feeling of purpose .

And also if I can just send the book , or someone buys the book and I become a mentor even though I don't actually know this person but my experience helps them from that perspective , then I've also done my job , and so I was naive and probably stupid in thinking of , like I could write a book because I didn't have a goal .

You know which sort of your question . When people ask me cause , they said to me too , should I write a book ? Usually my question is well , what do you hope to get from it ? And if the answer is fame and publicity , then I tell them , no , don't write a book . Yeah , but if it's to fulfill a deeper purpose or a deeper meaning , sure , yeah , go for it .

So a lot of people think I need to go to a conference , I need to go to a chamber of commerce meeting , I need to go out and network . Right , and you make a distinction between networking and relationship building .

I think the opportunities in network like when I wrote that LinkedIn book back in 2009 , with the exception that LinkedIn groups were actually legit back then like Facebook groups are today , and I created my own group and had in-person meetings here in Orange County . There are just so many opportunities to network today .

But what is the difference between those opportunities and actually developing a relationship and what are the benefits and , I guess , what are the steps to develop that relationship and the benefits of doing so ?

And so that's the big shift in my mindset over the past years was I used to think in a naive way that if I'm connected with someone on LinkedIn and they know who I am by name or something that they are going to speak about me , if I'm not in the room , they will advocate for me .

If I ask them , they will connect me with other people that they think I should meet , and that's simply not true . We have social networks now where I have , you know . I have , however , many thousands of people you know follow me and connected with me on LinkedIn , but I could probably count , you know , the number of people I actually know .

You know is considerably less than that . Right ? So it's . It's not about the numbers , it's not about the oh , I know you , you know . So therefore we have a relationship .

It's how do we build something more meaningful than that , and so in the book and in life , like I talk about how important it is to build these relationships through effort , and it cannot be with the goal in mind of how are you going to help me down the road right ?

A lot of the relationships that I have built over my career and over my life , both personally and professionally , are ones where I am truly invested in building that relationship because I simply want to have that partnership and relationship and with not a preconceived oh , by building a relationship with Neil , I will get something from that down the road .

And to build that relationship it takes effort , it takes time . If I meet someone at a conference , for example , it's important for me to make sure I follow up with them , that I engage with them in other meaningful ways . They can be small but impactful . For example , if I see something like an interesting article , I can just send it .

Hey , I was reading this article . I remember the conversation . You and I had thought this might be interesting to you Hope all is well right . Like it took less than 30 seconds for me to do that . But to the other person they are now being like wow , jeff thought about me when I wasn't . We weren't talking about anything .

It wasn't like we were in the middle of a conversation and he brought it up . I'm not even there and Jeff saw something that he related to me and our relationship .

Now maybe they're thinking the same thing , and so a lot of times then you get something back down the road of , hey , this is cool , you should check it out , or I'm going to this event , are you planning on going ? If not , you should come . So it's those kinds of little back and forth , just putting your effort and energy into building relationships .

That's what makes the difference between relationship and a connection .

Or hey , I'm looking for a new hire . You're not investing in those relationships for those purposes , but because we're all in this game of life and we all either work or have our own business .

It always opens the door , not necessarily for your own opportunities , but maybe for those in your network , and I think , with that understanding and investment in what I call many call the bank account of karma , it does come back to reap rewards . I'm curious if you have any anecdotes around that that have helped you or that you've been able to help others .

Like I have had people reach out to me and say hey , jeff , I was talking to so-and-so at this conference , or I met this person , or they're a friend of mine or they're whatever it is and I was telling them some of the challenges I have with my startup and how I could use help , and they said that you would be the person to talk to .

And those moments like that feeling that I get of somebody else spoke highly enough of me and who I am as a person , the work that I do to tell someone else that they should want to know me or connect with me in some way , that is , hands down , for me , one of the best feelings I can have professionally .

At the same time , I take that with me in how I think about and treat others . I am always looking to advocate for my friends , for people that I'm connected with . You go look at my LinkedIn activity . Right , like I go through these waves of being really active and then not active , don't we all ?

But one of the things that I do a lot of if I see someone post a job and it's like I'm looking for a great X , right , I will go in .

I will just tag people that I know in that role and send a follow-up to the person who put that role and be like hey , I tagged these people Like I think they would be great if you know for your role , based on my experience and working with them .

So I don't even know if they're interested , I don't even know if they're going to apply , but if they do and I let them know that this job is open , these would be great people for you to interview and it's again 30 seconds of my time , but it has a meaningful and lasting impact on others .

please remember me right , knowing that there's always a need for the help of other people , and there have been so many other people . I think of Matt Prince , who is actually director of PR at Taco Bell locally here in Orange County and he teaches a class at Chapman University and he gives it all for his students and he actually set up a little job board .

It's like , hey , if any of you want to hire aspiring marketers , I have great students and it's just doing a little bit extra , not with the intent of like I need something back , but then knowing somehow , somewhere , it might reap dividends . But more than anything , you're helping someone else , right , and that's really what life is all about .

So if you're looking for inspiration , hopefully those two case studies and obviously what Jeff is teaching here will help you .

I want to switch gears a little bit , because relationship building can work both when you think of outside of your network and then we think inside of our network and specifically , you had mentioned , and I had also mentioned , mentorship right and mentorship for career growth .

So we do have some listeners who are not on their own , but they're part of larger organizations . What would your advice be about mentorship , about leveraging relationship building , in finding a mentor and in really investing in that relationship and , on the flip side , if you are a more experienced person , how can they help others through mentorship ?

They wanted to teach , they wanted to share their knowledge and their experience so that I could be better in my job , both in the actual role that I had , but also I can grow and be better in my career . I could be a better person , I could be a better father , right , like it's not always siloed , it doesn't need to be siloed of .

I need to find a marketing mentor who's going to make me a better marketer . Like that is absolutely not true , that you have to have that like one-to-one relationship between your job and the mentor . In fact , the best mentor I ever had knew absolutely nothing about marketing and the reason why his name is Bill Ingram .

He was the chief strategy officer at Cricket Wireless , a Harvard , you know , mba guy , like military guy . Like we are very different in how we see the world . He has a CFO background , so he's a numbers organization structure and I'm like the marketer who talks about feelings and emotions and all of those things .

So we're very different people and he was the best mentor because , a he cared deeply about me and my success , but , b he wanted to and was willing to teach me all of the things that I didn't know well , the areas of his expertise he wanted to work with me on .

So I don't have a finance background and I can understand , like a P&L statement and all of those things , but he walked me through and put time into , jeff , here's how to think about a business or an organization differently by looking at the financials , by looking at all of these other external factors that , as a marketing leader , I was not thinking about .

And so it was such a deep relationship of I want to help you be better in your career and your life , even though he could not help me be better in marketing , because that's just , he didn't have anything to add there in terms of like . This is what I've thought about when I've built an ad campaign right .

So the only way it also worked is I gave him everything of me right , like it . You know it was . I would come to him with questions . I was vulnerable , I was open with hey , I don't understand this , I don't learn . You know , I don't know how to do this . Like there's no ego , there's no cockiness . It had to be completely open .

Bill , I want to learn , I want to get better , and I had to over-communicate that I want to improve . I want you to show me and I want as much time of yours as I possibly can get , because that's what's going to learn be vulnerable , number one . Be open and honest about what you hope to accomplish . Speak your truth right .

I want to get to be better at X and I think you can help me get there and you tell me what you need from me so that I am worth your time and your investment as well . So make sure that it is that two-way street and you're offering yourself to them .

On the flip side , if you're interested in being a mentor , take everything I just said and what Bill did for me and realize your abilities as a mentor are really all about . Where can you help make someone better in their career , you know , in their life ? It doesn't have to be I need to teach you my skill . It can be .

I want to teach you a more generalized you know thing , a new approach , how to think strategically , how to you know evaluate things . I mean it doesn't matter . The opportunities are endless . Find what will enable you to be . You know to feel good about sharing your expertise with somebody who wants to hear it .

And I look at my kids , who you know in high school , both interested in marketing , and they're reaching out to university professors of marketing and saying , hey , I'm eager to learn . Is there any help you need on ?

You know I'm Gen Z , so if you need any help researching TikTok and my daughter actually was able to hook up with a professor at Northwestern University Kellogg School of Management .

My son is working with a professor at UC Irvine and because there are people that not only need the help but they also understand the value of mentoring and as mentors , jeff , I think you'd agree we also learn as well from the people we are mentoring .

It's about your being known , and I think that really comes down to anybody in sales or anybody who's looking for a job or who wants to sell more of their product or any business . They all want to be known by a broader number of people . They all want to be known by a broader number of people .

They all want to , in marketing terms , increase their brand awareness among people that don't know them . So , understanding that importance , what are some steps that the listeners , whether it's for their personal brand , their professional brand or for their corporate brand what are some steps that you recommend they take to get started on that today ?

But if you want to be known within , like your circles , if you want to create those kinds of relationships so that people are talking about you and you're not in the room , you need to give people a reason why .

And so the steps really start off with you know A what value do you bring , who are you as a person and how are you showcasing what makes you unique ? And it's everything from just being authentic , you know , on your professional social profiles , it's also putting in .

You mentioned going to conferences and meeting people , spending time with people , getting to know them , having them get to know you . And on top of that , it's , like I said earlier , putting in the effort to continuously engage and build that relationship over time .

Continuously engage and build that relationship over time , even when there is no short-term like this is what I'm hoping to accomplish , and I told the story of just sending an article or whatever it may be . I have somebody that was , I admitted , a conference early on in my career . We kind of lost touch for a little while , reconnected at some point .

Then he and I would randomly send each other things of like , hey , this is an interesting technology or this is cool Very much business type of conversation . And then one day I noticed a post that he had put on LinkedIn and it was something about his family and I reached out and said like , hey , I saw that , whatever it is , I've had a similar experience .

Let me share a little bit about that Again , just to make it more personal than just we only see each other in this business sense .

Over the years we've become not just great professional colleagues or professional connections , we've become friends and I have brought on new business to my fractional CMO business because he has sent people to me simply by saying , hey , if you're looking for not just these services , which the services I offer are not all that unique from other fractional CMOs or

agencies but because Jeff's just the type of person he is would align with this organization that you're building , mr Co-Founder or Founder , you should really be talking to Jeff . That never would have happened had our relationship stayed . Hey , here's a cool technology . Hey , there's this , you know .

Hey , what are you doing with AI Like , and so it took literally six years and a bunch an effort for us to bring that relationship to a little bit more personal one , and the outcome of that was he literally talked about me when I wasn't in the room .

It is 100% of people that already know me or that got a very , very warm introduction . And that's the other part that we didn't talk about is , when you build a relationship with someone , you also potentially get introduced to their network . And then we look at the LinkedIn , the first degree connection , versus all those secondary connections .

It becomes really powerful . So , Jeff , this has really been awesome , A lot of great advice . I know that obviously you know you're a fractional CMO , so I do want to give you a chance to talk about what you've been working on lately and if someone is really into what you're talking about and wants to reach out to you , how can they do that ?

I am a big believer that the next great startup or the cure for cancer , the solution to climate change , the whatever macro issue we have as a society , will be solved by a startup that is either trying to launch or hopefully will launch , or maybe is a year into their journey .

And so that's my passion is stepping into those roles and , with those organizations , to say how can I help with bringing your product or service to market , growing your users , bringing in some fundraising so that , hopefully , what you're trying to accomplish will have a massive impact on the world and , as we've talked , and our kids , right ?

So that's what gets me up in the morning and going throughout the day , At the same time being a mentor , collaborating with other people huge part of what I do because I want to give back , I want to . You know , as Bill did for me , I want to do for others . I can be found on LinkedIn or Jeff at misnomerco , or go to my website , misnomerco .

And you know I'm happy to connect and collaborate and really appreciate just being a part of this and aligning with someone . And you know , while this may be the with someone and you know , while this may be the beginning of our professional relationship , neil .

I was thinking the same thing and on that note I have to comment . So I see a Shea Stadium and a Giant Stadium poster behind you . So I am assuming you are a New Yorker or have some New York connection .

And my wife had lived in San Diego previously and so it was kind of like an easy decision . But I hold true to my New York roots , despite the fact that my oldest son is a Padres fan and likes to kind of give me a hard time whenever the Padres are playing the Mets . But I am a true New Yorker .

I've worked hard at getting rid of the accent , but if you put a pizza in front of me and you see how fast I eat it , you will know that I am still a New Yorker by DNA .

But you know , sometimes you just can't help who you fall in love with .

But yeah , mets are always a good team in the contention and you know everybody . You know everybody . You know , when I saw the dodgers play the red socks in the world series , the one thing that the fans agreed on was the yankee suck chant , and I'm sure we can . I also see one last question . I also see a soccer ball there .

So I'm thinking new york red bulls . Maybe you played soccer , so , and my , my kid , plays soccer , so what's the connection there ?

You know I'm not much of a soccer player , but you know it's Leo Messi , right ?

I could write six books and do God knows how many podcasts about the unhealthy relationship of being a Mets fan , because there is very little in this world that is as gut-wrenching as being a Mets fan when the alternative , growing up in New York , is a Yankees fan .

So my brother's a Yankees fan , a lot of my friends are Yankees fans and they're like oh , we have all these world championships , we're the greatest team you know global icons , and if you want to have an inferiority complex , be a Mets fan . It is a toxic relationship , but one I will never let go of .

Please reach out to Jeff on LinkedIn or go to misnomerco . That's M-I-S-N-O-M-E-Rco . Jeff , thanks again and , you know , hope to see you in real life in the near future . You got it . Thanks for having me . All right , I hope you enjoyed that interview .

Hey , I hope you're already subscribed to this podcast , but if you're not , hope you'll hit that subscribe button and if you had a minute before the end of the year I would love to hear from you is in the form of a review .

You know , podcasters are always looking for more reviews of their podcasts , especially because this podcast is still at the double digit number of reviews on Apple podcasts and therefore , every once in a while I will just remind you if you haven't . But you found value .

It would really mean a lot to me if you could just spend a second going to your Apple podcast app . It's really easy to , you know , put a star rating and then write a quick review One or two sentences is totally fine and then take a screenshot , send it to me , neil , at neilschafercom .

I would love to hear from you and , yes , today's podcast was all about relationships and I would love to have the opportunity to deepen my relationship with all of my podcast listeners . Alrighty well , that's it for another episode , my podcast listeners . Alrighty well , that's it for another episode . This is your digital marketing coach .

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