Problem Solvers (with Sen. Amy Klobuchar & Mayor Aja Brown)

talking to the Mayor of Compton, California, Asia Brown. I first heard about this amazing young woman who decided to run for the mayor of Compton when she was just thirty one years old. And Compton, as a lot of people may know, is very old, distinguished city in California, but it was having a lot of challenges. And the idea that she stepped up and said, look, I think I can make a difference made a terrific impression on me. Hey, hi Mayor, Hi, how are you Secretary Clinton? Oh? Asia,

I'm fine. I hope you are. I am. I am so great to see you. I am thrilled to welcome you to this podcast because, as you I hope no, I am a longtime admirer of your leadership and the incredible work you've done as mayor of Compton, California, from cutting both unemployment and the homicide rate by half in your first term to pioneering the largest guaranteed income program

in our country. I think your success is really important, of course for the people of Compton, but more because of what it says about what we could be doing to help people and to govern better in a difficult time. So let me start by asking you, how did you get inspired to run and become the youngest ever elected mayor of Compton, California at the age of thirty one.

I really was inspired to serve my community in this capacity, recognizing that I had worked in cities for a decade and urban planning, economic development, redevelopment, and I realized that projects can only go so far, and that in order to change the trajectory of my community, we need a new leadership. And so I looked around and asked people that exhibited leadership qualities what they consider running and everyone said no, And so I like, wow, I didn't know

that far. Everyone said no. I even asked my husband, because I was the strategist of the family and I told him, you know, I have your back, and he said absolutely not. He was like, you're You're made for this, and I recognized that I was. I had the training, the education, and the passion, and so I stepped out by faith. And because I had done so much work in the community, we had already had a really strong

coalition behind me. And I went to the people of Compton and I spoke with him about what they wanted for their community. And then I created a twelve point vision for Compton Plan, which was a strategy for community growth and restoration. And that was my platform, that was the mission, and the residents of Compton overwhelmingly elected me to enact that strategy, which is exactly what I've done for the last eight years. I love the fact that

you say you're someone who likes getting things done. You're a woman after my own part Asia. When did you first realize that about yourself? Were you a child, a young girl, a teenager? Definitely a child, um. I actually am a twin have a twin brother, um. And my mother would always tell me, you're definitely the strategy and brains of operation. I would always be trying to run the situation, and she would tell me, you're not going to run my house, but you'll be running a company

some day. So I always knew that I would um be a leader someplace, but I was focused on solving problems. I just wanted to make things better. And you've come up with something called the Compton Pledge, which is a really fascinating idea. Can you describe that to us? Absolutely? Um. The Compton Pledge is really our commitment to Compton, and it's focused on providing a direct, guaranteed income to eight hundred Compton residents that are the most impoverished in our community.

And we really were strategic and wanting the sample to actually reflect Compton's demographics, and so we have not only um those that are below the poverty line, but also those that are undocumented, those that are firmly incarcerated, and so they were picked in a lottery basis. But they'll be receiving bi monthly payments between three hundred dollars every two weeks or six hundred dollars every two weeks, depending on family size, and the program will last for two years.

We worked with the private sector to raid is eight million dollars in order to provide direct cash to confident residents, and we're looking forward to measuring their well being, how they feel, how their trauma is impacted with the additional infusion of capital, and then also providing them with access to a portal with benefits. So we're providing free checking accounts and financial counseling and um just information so that

they can really empower themselves in their families. Why do you think guaranteed income programs like the Compton Pledge are promising when it comes not only to reducing poverty, which of course is a goal in and of itself, but more than that, integrating people into the larger community, getting them to use a checking account, getting them to know how to seek out help and advice if they want to start a small business or they have some other issues. I am a strong believer that we are all all

human beings UM in our nation. We're all connected, we all live in communities, we all um live in the same neighborhoods, and what happens to my neighbor ultimately will impact me. When we think about people relying on the health care system for UM direct UH and in immediate healthcare that ultimately has a greater cost on the broader society. When we consider that people that are impoverished usually are more susceptible to being impacted by crime. That's something that

impacts the total community. And so in order to have a direct impact on poverty, we must provide a direct investment to those that are most impoverished. And it's just really simple economics. We know for a fact that trickle down economics does not work. Um. It has never meant um, and it's not going to work. And so we must actually put our our money where we say our our mouth is what we say our value is as Americans in order to really provide equal access, justice, and opportunity

for all. I love that and I think it's a great way of trying to demonstrate that investing in people pays off. I know you've been asked this question, but how do you respond to people who argue that a guaranteed income program will disincentivize people from actually working. That is such a misnomer, um, And it really reminds me of the welfare queen, thinking that providing someone with the basics to live is going to disincentivize them to wanting

to provide more for their families and for myself. I was raised in poverty. I had a single mother, she had two kids. I need everything. At the same time, my mother did not access public assistance. She decided to work um and she worked hard, and she made zero excuses, and she focused on providing every single opportunity she can get her fingers on. And I know that my mother

is not unique, that all mothers, all all fathers. They want the best for their children, and if they have an additional infusion of income, they're not going to sit back because obviously you can't live on three hundred dollars or six hundred dollars a month, but it can enable you from being um, housing insecure, from having your utilities cut off, from actually having a savings account for once in your life, and not feeling the pressure of constant

really insecurity. My mother was raised with stress where literally if something happened, um, if her car broke, we literally were without utilities, and sometimes we had to move if the issue began to compound, and it happened over and over again growing up, and I remember being a child and feeling her stress because children feel what your parents feel. So I think people need to get back to basics and think about humanity and to not segregate poor people

from the broader fabric of humanity. I love that, and of course I agree with it because so often people are literally just one broken car away from losing their job. There, you know, one bad health experience from losing their job and their income, and it's so unfair to turn our backs on what could be an incredibly rich flowering of people in our larger country if they just had a little bit of help so that they don't fall off the cliff and end up needing so much more or

feeling that they're just lost. What advice would you give to someone who wants to get involved in their community but isn't quite sure how to do that. I would definitely encourage people to check out your city council meetings.

Just see see who's representing you, See what issues that they're really champion Are they important to you and your family, Are they really going to to move the community forward, And then I would definitely start getting engaged, start reaching out to them and let them know what you need in your community and make them work for you. Elected officials are here to serve, and they're they're not to

be served. They are to serve people, but the people have to actually do their part and hold them accountable and project what their agenda is in order for them to coalesce around that. So I would encourage people to use their power. We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. I've heard that when you work to get young people engaged, you first asked them what makes you mad the most, because that's where they'll find the motivation to fix whatever it is that makes them mad. So let me ask

you what makes you mad the most these days? You know what's been biking me, Mathew? Most are I think just people in the local community, and quite frankly that our seniors but aren't necessarily seasoned, that are continuing to fight against the younger generation. When we look at our history of those that have been the most impactful on

the front lines of change our young people. And so I just believe when when the older generation can really wrap their arms around the young people and impose their wisdom and marry that with young people's passion, that we can really see the largest growth in our in our cities. Well, I hope that the older generation of which I am now or we'll hear you say that age now you have announced that you're not going to run for re election this summer. You were elected twice, you have been

very successful mayor. You've institutionalized some really important changes in attitude and policy. What made you decide that it was time for you to move on. I've always committed that I would serve two terms UM, and I just believe that elected offices do not belong to the office holder. They belong to the people. And I know that as long as I'm here that at some point I won't

motivate that next generation to step forward. And so in the midst of COVID, I was even more ignited in my passion of just building community and so I launched a community development corporation that's really focused on infusing wealth, building generational wealth in our communities, providing opportunities and educational infrastructure UM and just innovation and tech in comftent So I will be in comftent Um, but but serving in a different capacity and with what I believe I can

have the greatest impact at this time, I just hope that you know what you've done serves as a model not only for those who follow in your footsteps in Compton, but really across the country, and of course I really hope that you will stay involved, that your voice will be out there. I just want to thank you, Secretary Clinton for being just a warrior UM for for justice,

for access, for equality. I followed your career since the very beginning, and I can understand as a female leader just that the obstacles that you've had to overcome and the stances you've had to make because you're a woman. UM And so I just want to let you know that I am a huge fan. I always will be, and I just want to thank you for still being with us in publicly and just imparting your voice and your wisdom to to the United States and abroad because

you're a champion for sure. Oh thank you so much. Asia. That means a world to me coming from you, and uh, I think I joined a big core us. Wishing you the very best as you embark on the next adventure in your life. Thank you. To keep up with Asia, you can follow her on social media. She's Asia That's

a J. A. L. Brown on Twitter and Instagram. I have been looking forward to talking with my friend Senator Amy Klobisher from the beginning of the podcast because she's a really down to earth person who tries to figure out what to do to help people and also to solve problems. I've known her since she first ran for the Senate. She was a great supporter to me when I ran for president, in just blanketed the Midwest campaigning

for me. And now she's back in the Senate after running for president herself, so she has that experience behind her and is chairing one of the most important committees called the Rules Committee, which she'll talk about. One of the areas of problem solving Amy is passionate about is holding big business accountable and breaking up corporate monopolies. In fact, her latest book is called Antitrust, Taking on monopoly Power

from the guilded Age to the Digital Age. And that's one of the reasons I was really excited to talk to her for our podcast. Here she is, Hey, hello, my dear, how are you. It's great to see you. How are you doing? How's your family? And I assume your husband after his bout with COVID is fine, Okay, I hope he is. My nine two year old dad actually also got through COVID. So we've been hit like so many families and um, so many families of course

hit worse. And I've think one of our most exciting moments right now, in addition to the fact that it's like eighty degrees in Minnesota, is that we are finally getting through this. I was just on the phone with a bunch of vats with the American Legion and they were saying how excited they were that so many of their members have gotten the shots. And you know, it just feels to me like we are so close to getting through this and we've just got to hang in

there and follow the rules. Um, and we're going to make it through. Well, I'm hoping that your assessment is right that we're certainly beginning to see the end of this. You know, there are two really important issues I want to talk to you about. Um. We'll get to the one about anti trust and about technology, but I want to start with the very important role you're playing in

the Senate on election reform. You know, give us an update about where we are in trying to save our democracy again by fixing the issues that unfortunately keep coming up, about how we can always have free and fair elections, keep dark money out of our elections, encourage and help people to vote where where, are we on all of that, Senator Well, I think no one knows better than you what can happen when people start messing around with elections,

which is what happened clearly in when you're running. And as a result of that, there were changes made to protect our system from foreign interference. Um, not only the hacking and what happened with your campaign, with the direct hacking into John Podesta's account so many others, but also with the attempts made to actually interfere with the ballots. And that's when we pushed for extra funding for the states.

Because of what happened, we uh, Senator Langford and I introduced Backup Paper Ballots Bill, basically the Secure Election Act, with support from Senator Burr and Grant, and of course the Trump administration stopped that from passing, so we still

don't have a requirement on backups. But because of what happened, I will say there were people like Chris Krebs at Homeland Security that worked really hard to take on foreign interference, resulting in him saying at the end of it, it was the safest election when it look comes to foreign interference in the history of America. So that's the one thing we got to remember that came out of what

happened to you. The second piece of this, though, is the efforts that have been made at voter suppression that have been going on for years and became really obvious the last few years, and during the pandemic, this amazing, almost magical thing happened. You would have thought that voter turnout would have been way down because it was so hard to vote. Instead it was up at the highest

level ever in the middle of a pandemic. That is because there was so much pressure on governors secretaries of states of both parties to make it easier to vote, to be like Minnesota where we have early registration in and I've always had the highest voter turnout in the country and as a result, much more voting by mail, much more education efforts on how to do this, and

we come out with this big turnout. Okay, what happens then, Well, Joe Biden wins the election and Democrats eventually went Georgia, which no one thought possible. And then what does the Republican Party do? And to me, this is sad because a bunch of their governors and sectors of states were doing the right thing during the election, it was a

bipartisan effort. Instead of going with the flow and re examining their party and what they can do, which all parties do after they lose an election, these guys decided, we're just gonna eliminate some of those voters. We're gonna choose our voters instead of the voters choosing us. I think that what we need to do is just put in some minimum national standards about mail in balloting and

registering and early voting. And that's what the Four the People Act is about, in addition to taking some the dark money out of our politics and um, disclosing contributions and putting in ethics rules. UM. And that's this big bill that I chair the Rules Committee now, and that we're going to get through the committee. And what are the prospects of getting it through the Senate given what a lot of people are worried about, which is the

old filibuster and the way to stop legislation like this. Yeah, well, I think it's time to change that old filibuster. Um. And I think you and I both understood, when used in a good way, it was it would foster people working together to get to sixty votes. That was a whole idea, and you were a master when you were in the Senate of getting things done across the aisle and knew how to do that. And I've done a lot of that too. I still went across the aisle

all the time. But I have seen this now as impeding every major thing that we need to do, and so there's a few ways to get around that. One way is reconciliation, this old process that we used to get the America Rescue Plan through. But you just got to get stuff done, and that was fifty one vote. But you can't use that reconciliation thing, which is about taxes. You can't use it for things like voting reform or for the most part, immigration, climate change, some of these

big things. So that leads you to the filibuster and making change. So I would favor changing the filibuster now to get rid of it. There's other reforms you could do, like the talking filibuster, which center mansion as signaled interest, in which you would at least force the other side to just stand and be there all night instead of messing around and just throwing in some procedural objection and going home. So those are the kinds of things we're

looking at. In your question about how we get this bill through, it's like all these other bills. Um, we're going to have to find some way because right now Mitch McConnell is not in a compromising mood. Um. That's a nice Minnesota euphemism saying it. So we're gonna have

to find a way to get it done well. Connected to election reform is technology, social media, Internet reform, because I see it as going you know, hand in hand in terms of how we communicate, how we get information that we can trust to make decisions in a democracy. And you have a new book out, has it? Has it come out or it's about to come coming out?

A excellent So you have a new book coming out, um, and it's called antitrust, taking on monopoly power from the Gilded Age to the digital age, and it's about how we increase competition in our economy and a number of industries. And you know, as you know, I'd be happy to talk any trust policy with you all day long. But for anyone out there listening who's all of a sudden saying any trust, what is what is that? Let's break it down. What is antitrust? And why does it matter

so much? Well, it matters to anyone who wonders why is my cable bill so high? Or why is it cheap to go one airport leg and not the other? How come, um, there's nothing to pick from when it comes to cat food. Or my favorite was John Oliver who did a whole segment on this, and at the very end say, and if all this consolidation is enough to make you want to die, good luck, because you've only got three casket makers left. And then actually one

has bought the other one, so there's only two. Um. And so anti trust came about during what we call the Gilded Age, when they are all these robber barons and they were controlling the railroads in Minnesota and northern Minnesota. They controlling where my grandpa later worked, the iron ore industry, and the mines. You can kind of go through it, you know, these stories in the haymarket going back in Chicago, Hillary and so what came about was this antitrust because

it trust owns everything. So anti trust was this movement led by Democrats and Republicans. Teddy Roosevelt rode his horse into the White House in part because he was willing

to take on the trust. So there's been this spirit of entrepreneur worship rejuvenating capitalism through the years that have not been partisan, and we haven't done anything in this area for decades and decades and decades, and now we have our new guilded age with companies that are basically the gateway companies, whether it is Facebook when it comes to social media, when it's Google that controlled the searches, and they have reached a point where they are able

to hold the whole countries hostage. Like Australia that simply wanted to have people pay for content so news organizations could be compensated for content, and Google and Facebook that provide all those links go no way, we don't want to pay for that. We're just gonna go home. Sorry, you won't have a search engine. Well, eventually there was so much pressure internationally that they backed away. In Australia

was able to proceed with their law. But a true sign of a monopoly is when they can hold an entire industrialized nation hostage. So that's what you're seeing, and it's affecting people, even though they love their aroducts. And I'm not against these companies, you know, they've been successful, they've given us great products, but we've always rejuvenated capitalism

by having a check in balance. That was the breakup of a T and T. That was the work that went on around Microsoft in the past and other companies where people pushed back. Sometimes it resulted in dramatic things like the breakup and the reduction in the long distance line costs and the spawning of the cell phone industry. And sometimes maybe the end result wasn't dramatic, but it created a pause in the competition, so other new companies

got in the market. And so that's what you're seeing right now with these Google and Facebook lawsuits that actually got started by some hard working people during the Trump administration at the end at the FTC and the do O J and I Trust, and are now being carried on by the Biden administration. You have really described so well what we're up against. And small businesses that might very well be developing some of the advances in technology or some of the fixes for what ails technology are

being just squeezed out of the market. I mean they're not getting, you know, the kind of air they need to breathe to be able to develop and grow. So I think stronger competition or antitrust policy would also be good for small business. Yeah, it is, and especially women

owned and minority owned businesses. You look at those numbers, particularly minority owned businesses, and how you have whole areas of the country that used to be have thriving small minority owned businesses, particularly African American owned businesses, and it's very hard to get started when you have these big goliaths that basically push everything out, and it's hard to

get the capital to start. And there's a lot of solutions which I lay out in the book to that, even outside of antitrust law, with making sure that you make it easier to access capital and having STEM programs for focused on women and minorities. But you can't forget the n I trust law. I'm actually I'm pretty excited about that aspect of people haven't talked about competition for wages. If you just have one big company, they have no

reason to want to compete for wages. If you have a bunch of people competing in the same area, this makes sense. Then the employees could go Nope, I have this expertise, but I'm gonna go work at this company instead. UM and when you look back in history. I mentioned Chicago, which was really a focal point for the union movement way back. That union movement came out in tandem with these monopolies because they were trying to give workers more power.

The farmers and the grangers with their pitchforks at meetings in Minnesota and Iowa, North and South Dakota. That was a lot about the same thing. They don't want to have to pay just one railroad company to ship their grain. Um. And so it's just this trying to take that kind of exuberance for the issue that they had back then, when they had literally campaign songs. Woodrow Wilson had a campaign song about and I dressed um, which we wouldn't do today. But it's trying to take that kind of

exuberance and bring it into the modern day politics. What are some of the monopolies that a lot of people might not even be aware of. Let's see online travel. People think they're getting all their deals when they go to Expedia and Kiaka, Well it turns out two companies own that market. Um. You have agged. There's been a lot of mergers and agg which makes it really hard. Pharmaceutical area, UM, while we are, you know, very pleased they developed these vaccines for us all across the world.

We can't then take our pedal off the gas when it comes to looking at anti competitive conduct with pharmaceuticals, UM and I actually start my book by leading with how I got involved, which was a newborn baby drug called into methisin, when a pharmacist called me in Minnesota said this price suddenly went out for newborn babies with heart defects. It went of a thousand percent in one week, and it turned out one company had bought both the drugs. It was that simple. Um, I just think it would

surprise people. It's everything from sunglasses, as I said, to cat food. It's a lot of consolidation going on. We'll be right back, So talk to us about your plan for both preventing monopolies and incentivizing competition, the kind of actions that you think are necessary, and what your legislation

would try to do well. The first thing is making sure these agencies that FTC and the d O G and I trust, which are just shadows of their former selves, making sure that the agencies are not left with band aids and duct tape to take on the biggest companies

the world has ever known. UM. The second piece is looking at the standards, and we have juvenated our anti trust laws decade after decade after decade, and so this is a moment where we could do that and look at some of these gigantic mega mergers that are over five billion dollars and say, well, for those, the government shouldn't have to prove that it hurts competition. UM, the company should have to prove that it doesn't. To make

it easier to bring the cases. Because because you weren't President Hillary, we appointed a number of judges who have actually have really conservative track records on anti trust, particularly Gorset, who continues to side with Justice Thomas on these cases. And then Justice Kavanaugh had a number of conservative cases. He did go one time since becoming a Supreme Court justice on allowing a case to go forward with Apple, and he sided with the more liberal justices. UM, but

for the most part his records very conservative. Amy Corney Barrett doesn't really have a record on anti trust. It there's no reason to think she will be anything close to where Ruth Bader Ginsburg was. So you basically, if your whole hope is to wait on the Supreme Court to stop their working in interpretation of the antitrust laws, which is very extreme. That's probably not going to happen.

So that's what led me to believe that while the cases should continue to be fought, especially intact, there may be some hope on the horizon there. We've got to make some changes that are sensible to the laws to take on this. Make our laws as sophisticated as the companies that are messing around with them. It's the only way you're going to be able to launch the kind

of investigations we need. Putting people in place, and this will be Congress's job to confirm them, but putting people in place in the administrations that really want to take this on. And Um, you know, you've got some really interesting people now working on this who are outside the box thinkers. Lena Khan's name has been nominated President Biden for the FDC and most of Sgnificantly, Merrick Garland knows about this like your husband. He's taught and I trust

a lot, and um it's a very complex area. And he um Is brought it up when he was standing next to President Biden when he nominated him. So I think that's really hopeful when you have an attorney general that understands it. Now, you know, critics um and you know there's always critics of everything, but you know, critics say, oh and he trust. Come on, you know number one, it will drive up prices, it'll hurt innovation, and yet

there's no evidence of that. It's like so much else that we hear from people who defend the status quo. Do you want to just take on those two things? You're right, the main criticisms are they first say, well, this will somehow hurt you guys. Well, one of the classics things that happens with anti trust is monopolies under price, so it seems really good, and then once they have no competitors, and this is history. We know, this is is why we have these laws on the book called

an I trust. They then raised the prices and you're screwed. You know, It's like you get a real good deal to get in on something and then pretty soon you've got the prices and you're stuck with it. So that's just economics. That's what happens in unchecked capitalism. And so economists are aware that you have to have this check

because basically price will go up. And I'd say the proof is in these longer term monopolies like your cable prices, they find they're getting some competition from streaming and the like, but over time those prices have gone way up. Um. The second thing is on innovation. So originally, and I'm so in favor of success, and I was in the private sector for fourteen years. I did represent m c I by the way, so I had a front row

seat when we were fighting against the monopolies. It was right after the A T and T breakup, and I saw there that we got more innovation when A T and T was broken up. Cell phones when it started where the sides of like Gordon Geckos briefcase and that would be well Street, right, And it was all of that competition that got us to a better place. And right now we need competition in the seed industry, um, so that we can get better and better seeds to

adapt to climate change. We need more competition when it comes to these tech companies, so not only do we regulate our way into privacy, but they come up with the solutions which it just has completely alluded us to our great detriment. And so um, that's my argument is they have brought us innovation. That's great. A T and T did too at the beginning. We you know, with the old telephones, right, but then you rejuvenate capitalism and

you do it with the n I trust laws. Well, Senator Kloba, I'm so happy that you are in a leadership role on these critically important issues. It's just terrific. And the fact that you keep working so hard to be bipartisan to find partners. You've mentioned a bunch of Republican senators that you have worked with and are working with. I only hope that you know they will stay with you and be part of the solution to these problems

that we face. Any last words about your exciting book, Well, for those that followed the presidential campaign, my presidential campaign, they will be amused to know that Pete and I of course had this ribbalry on the debate stage, but we're truly friends. His book was called trust that he put out this ball and of course mine is called antitrust um. So that's a little fun fact. But I think that for me taking those two issues and they really are tied together because we cannot have a strong

democracy if it is undermined. All the time, as we saw in all of its horror on January six by disinformation and misinformation on the Internet. And so to me, they're kind of tied together, um, and they're not the easiest things. In the election case, you're basically taking on the entire Republican party structure that doesn't want to see that change. And in the antitrust you thank you all

the monopolies. Other than that, you know it's gonna be a piece of k Hillary, but someone's got to do it, as you know from those hard things you took on internationally, I'm in your corner and I'm thrilled you're leading the charge. Thanks so much for talking to us about this. Thank

you so much. Amy's new book is called Antitrust, Taking on monopoly Power from the guilded Age to the Digital Age, and I think you could tell from listening to her she breaks it down and makes it all really understandable because we all have a stake in making sure that these monopolies don't control our lives. Well, that's it for today's episode, and I hope you're feeling inspired to go out and solve some problems. There is certainly no shortage of them. Around us. How do we rebuild in the

wake of this pandemic. How do we address us climate change on our personal level too, you know, the great macro global level. How do we prevent guns from getting in the hands of the wrong people? You know, one of the biggest problems I'm focused on right now is how do we persuade people to get vaccinated? People who say, oh, I just don't know. Well, if you're close to somebody who's saying that, try to help problem solved, to get

them the information they need to get vaccinated. And then, of course I'm always trying to solve the problems facing our country in the world. But you know, that's a topic for another day. Before I go, I want to make a really exciting announcement about our last episode of this season. We're going to turn the tables and let you, our listeners, ask the questions. I'll be joined by a surprise guest, someone who makes me laugh all the time.

So if you have a question for me about the podcast, about public service, about my favorite pants suit, what where it might be, please give us a call at four four five eight one four four one, and to all the phone everse among us. Don't worry I won't actually pick up the phone, so you can call seven leave a voicemail any time of the day or night. We just asked that you try to keep it to a minute or so, or if you prefer, you can email us your question at You and Me Both pod at

gmail dot com. Once again, that number is nine one four four five eight one four four one. I really look forward to hearing from you. You and Me Both is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Supran, Kathleen Russo and Lauren Peterson, with help from Kuma Aberdeen, Nikki e Tour, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hawk Hman, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Rob Russo, and Lona Valmorro. Our engineer is Zack McNeice. And the original music is by

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