Partnerships (with John & Gisele Fetterman, and Call Your Girlfriend hosts Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman)

tell you that no one does great things alone. We need friends, spouses, partners, siblings, colleagues, and others we can turn to for support who will keep us motivated and hold us accountable. So on today's episode, we're celebrating partnerships. I'll be talking to Lieutenant Governor and Second Lady of Pennsylvania John and Giselle Fetterman about their shared commitment to

public service. And I'll be talking to Jorge and Ilana Valdez, a brother sister team who found a creative new way to help thousands of college students find friendships and more while campuses are shut down. But first I'm talking to Amy not Too So and and Friedman, hosts of the beloved podcast Call Your Girlfriend, and now best selling authors about friendship Amy Not Too So, and and Friedman are

each extraordinary women in their own right. Last July, they released their book Big Friendship, How We Keep each Other Close, which is really a love letter to friendship and a guide for people who want to be better friends in a time when we've been isolated from our friends. This book sure resonated with me, and I was delighted to welcome them to the podcast. I'm just so excited to

talk to both of you. And it's particularly poignant to me because in the last year I've lost two really, really good friends, and I missed them all the time. I mean every day I want to talk to one or the other about what's going on or you know, what they're thinking or how they're managing. And I almost have to catch myself because you know, I can't talk to them. But when you think about friendship, and the two of you just really have delved into it. What

are some of your favorite examples of friendship and popular culture? First, I just want to say I'm so sorry for your loss, Like hearing that is, it's so big and it's so profound, you know, I think the reason and and I are so invested in our friendship and in friendship in general.

I think it is because culturally, we haven't made space to to tell people that, you know, when your friend, I said, is a significant loss in your life, and that we should treat it that way, you know, and you should have time for bereavement, and you should have people check in on you. So that is you know, that's a lot to hear. And I'm so sorry you're dealing with that. To your question about friendship and popular culture, I think that pop culture for me has always been

where the idealized version of friendship was. I was an obsessive Mary Tyler Moore show watcher as a kid, and when and when I was learning English, it was a show that meant so much to me, and so like that, friendship is iconic to me. I think, Um, you know, in the book, we write a lot about Oprah and Gail, and while that is not a fictional account of friendship, I think that too very real women sharing how invested they are in each other. That is something that had

it has left a lasting impression on my life. How about you, an well, and when we talk about complex portrayals of friendship that you know, don't just show the idealized good stuff, but show everything that it can mean to be in someone's life this way. I think a lot of those examples come from fiction. We both love Tony Morrison Sula and speaking of a lifelong, powerful, profound entanglement,

so to speak. That book really gets at some of the things I think we were hoping to write about, in the sense that a friendship can be lots of things, not just always affirming and joyful, but complex and difficult. You know, when you make friends as an adult, that's a different kind of entry into friendship. I think about how YouTube met watching what the premiere of Gossip Girl, right the prom episode. Let me tell you it was riveting stuff. I just I love the the image of it.

But you became friends as adults, and I think that's a really significant event because for so many people, you know, that's hard for them, you know. I think that and and I were both people that we were so aware that so much of our social life when we were young was really organized around our parents. That is just the truth of any young person. You meet people because you're in the same boat as them, and to some

extent that is also true in college. And I think that you know once you step out into the real world. You have this opportunity to just be yourself and tell your story to people who you know don't have like a preconceived notion of who you are, and you get to try out almost like a new identity. We're like, this is who I am when the world is not negotiating me through my mom and dad or my academic

achievements or whatever. And so I think that, like when we met, it was very much a phase of life where you know, we lived in d C, such a transient kind of city, but we had a lot of room in our life to make a new friend because we were trying to figure out who am I going to be in the world, Like who do I want to be when I like an older, more established person.

And so when I think about people who don't want to, you know, they think that they don't have the capacity to make friends as adults, it makes me really sad because I think that the opportunity you have every time you make a friend as an adult, particularly like every decade of adulthood, is that you get to be a new person in someone's life, and you get to learn about yourself in a new context. And so I just really hope that we are people who are open to

that in every season of life. It's so true that part of our story is about meeting at this point where we were trying to figure out what the next

phase looked like for both of us individually. And when we look back on our admittedly kind of limited experience in adulthood making friends, like hopefully we're both around a long time to make a lot more, we really see that we both have made friends and periods of transition and periods where something is shifting in our lives and we maybe require are a new kind of relationship or

support to see us into the next phase. And you know, we're all always changing, and I think friends are a great reminder of that and a great inspiration to change more. You know, when you think about the friends from different phases of your life, it does reflect who you are, but it also, as you both said, reflect who you

want to become. Because there is a way in which your friendship, especially a close friendship, can be such a stimulant for you having to take steps it might be a little scary or break off a different relationship because you've got the support of a friend when you should have done it even before. So there's just a lot of learning that goes on through friendship. And you know, when you talk about friendship, you know, you came up with a couple of terms that really resonated with me.

One is big friendship. What sets big friendship apart? Is there such a thing as a little friendship? I love the idea of a little friendship. You're like a little friendship as a treat for you. Little friendships everywhere our next book, right exactly, that's right. You know, I think that what we were really trying to get at is

that the word friend is so nebulous. Friend is anyone from that person that you met one time who did that really nice thing for you, to someone that's you know, they're just in your Facebook feed and you don't remember when you met them. And then you know, there's the friend like Anne is my friend, someone who I want her to be there on my last day in the world. I want to know that I have a strong, solid

relationship with her. And in the Golden Girls version of this, you know she's there at the nursing home with me. That's the that's the fantasy. Please, you mean, on our Hawaiian compound, we are not in the nursing home. But let's let's construct a better fantasy for this. Okay, thank you,

thank you, thank you. But you know, I think that they're so much of the unexpressed feelings a friendship or that is that we don't we're not even precise about what we're talking about here, and so in um, you know, coining Big Friendship and talking about it, we are so laser focused on the kind of friendship that you want to be so deeply rooted in that this person is a huge part of your life. You want the worlds to know and to recognize that they're a big part

of your life. It is a relationship that is mature, It's a relationship that is rooted in the future, and that is um you know, I think really upends the social scripts for um, the role that your friends are

supposed to have in your life. Like we are, we are so deeply invested, you know, in creating a world where romantic love or you know, like parents and children bonds are not the only ones that people think make you a whole adult, you know, And we think that with Big Friendship, we're getting a little closer to that world. But I have to point out that you two have been very honest about the trials and tribulations of your

big friendship. This is the exact reason we wanted to write a book, in fact, that something that encompasses the complexity of friendship as opposed to just the joyful, up on the shelf parts of it. And you know, for us, I think the hardest moments were things that started small, you know, moments of disconnect or miscommunication where one of us felt you know, maybe dismissed or hurt, but didn't

say anything in real time. And then some more time passed and something else happened, and the disconnect kind of compounded until it got to this place where we were really just completely missing each other and also didn't feel safe or comfortable talking about the hard things in our

lives individually. And it was complex because we on the outside, we're still hosting a podcast together, we were still extremely functional colleagues, we still had this really deep well of love and respect for each other, but in the kind of emotional day to day our relationship was not great. And I also have to say that friendship is unique among intimate relationships. You know, it can kind of fall into the same traps you know, the same ebbs and

flows that any other relationship has. Conflict is just part of intimately knowing people, and that's something we wanted to really bring to the conversation about friendship. We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. You know, I love this poem that you have in the book. You share a few lines of a Pat Parker poem for the white person who wants to know how to be my friend, and then you go on to sort of pick that apart two because for people who might not know who

you are, which I can't believe anybody actually doesn't. You know, we have a black friend and a white friend, and the two have had to not only navigate business and friendship, and there were relationship but also race. Let's you know, let's be clear. And in this poem, I mean, it's so fascinating because you know, the poem begins with the first thing you do is to forget that I'm black. Second, you must never forget that I'm black. So how do

you to navigate this dynamic in your friendship? And you know, as somebody who's been blessed with really strong friendships with black women for many years, I'm often amazed at the obstacles that they face in their everyday life, which are you know, just stomach churning and so how have you

to navigate this dynamic? And and and have you ever had to stop and think or or worried that you're getting it wrong in you know, trying to be as honest as you possibly can have I ever, you know, one reason we love that poem so much is because it really does speak to this duality of like what makes friendship powerful is that two people feel connected, right,

they feel a sense of affinity. And at the same time, if it's an interracial friendship, particularly one like hours involving a white friend and a black friend, we do not have parallel experiences in this world. And you know, that dynamic that you're talking about of, you know, really coming to a deeper understanding of what it means to be a black woman in the United States of America through your friendship with black women is something that I fully

relate to. You know. It's one thing to kind of read statistics or read the news, and it's another when a person you love says like this is what's going on with me, and like this is how this plays out in my day to day life, and so that is something that we really write about as not an equal experience for both people in the friendship, you know.

I mean, I can tell you that I feel deeply grateful for having my world expanded and having more knowledge of what it's like for people who are not you know, of my race in this country. But I also recognize that that comes at a really painful cost for friends like I mean not to um and that conversation and that kind of labor to explain her experience of the world in a way that you know, I get to

have a learning experience just has a different toll. And being able to hold those things as joint truths is not all that different from holding the joint truths of you must forget I'm black, and you must never forget I'm black, and and you know, and to your point about UM, are these things I think about? You know, I think I have been a lot better at the first part of that than the second part of it,

you know. I think a sort of constant vigilance and work and conversation is required for me, a white person who is raised and steeped in white culture, to be more actionable and accountable when it comes to not forgetting that people I love are black and have this experience in the world, and from your perspective, I mean not to as one half of this very powerful, big friendship. How have you navigated race or has it been just

the continuity of your life having to Navy? Well, you know, as you know, I'm black, so I you know, for me, it's not having conversations about race is not something that I am more attuned to when you know, something terribly racist happens on the news, and so you know, even just that experience, I think was was something that I was just like not fully aware of that I was like, oh, yeah, I talked about race all the time because I'm black

and I don't have the choice to not. But realizing that, you know, for a lot of my white friends, this is like they're tuning in now because the news sets they should tune in, or because there has been an incident, you know. And and even in my friendship with and where we are two people who are very justice minded, and we are people who care a lot about living in a world that is fair and equitable, we've been great about talking about you know, racism as it happens

in the world. But understanding that, um, we also needed to talk about how it was affecting our own friendship. You know, that required a different kind of work. And Anna is correct that the toll is the toll is so very different you know when usually in intimate relationships with white people. I have noticed and um, you know, the critic Wesley Morris told us this, um for the book that usually if a conversation about race is happening, it's not because the white person is bringing it up.

And that is just like one tiny example of you know, the kind of repetitive work that you have to do all the time. And I think you know, Anna and I are also not naive, like racism is bigger than our friendship. We love each other a lot and we we want to be there for each other. But this is what we mean when we talk about systems that oppress people, and so um, you know, she is right.

It requires a nimbleness and it requires constant vigilance, you know, for for us, and I have to say that, you know, for people who say that they struggle with this, I would really like push them to think about all of the other ways that they can be different in their relationships you know, for white women, I'm like, if you

are married to a man. I'm not saying that it's apples to oranges, but I think that you you can understand how you can deeply love someone who also gets on your last nerve about having that deeply affects your life, you know, when that is true for straight people who are friends with not straight people, and it's true, it's

true in in all of these ways. And I think that having a compassion for people who are different and having the ability to be the one that says, hey, I understand that my experience is very different than yours, and I want to keep checking in on that, and I want to keep bringing that up because the world is very cruel to a lot of different kinds of people.

And I think that if you are saying that you are friends with people, that is something that you need to acknowledge from the jump, and it's something that you really have to be invested in, um, you know, in being part of a conversation. Otherwise your relationship will never go deeper than them, you know. I started by talking about two friends that I lost this past year. One a friend since sixth grade, someone who uh I was in her wedding, she was in my wedding. You know,

we we were in constant touch with each other. We just had, you know, one of those incredible friendships where we knew what each other was thinking at the same time and could kind of do the old side eye about what we're hearing or seeing. It was one of the great joys of my life. And my other friend was an adult made friend who I met in the nineties, had a chance to work with in a number of capacities. Was somebody whose opinion I valued so much, who literally

could and would tell me anything. One of those friends that everybody needs. Uh So I thought a lot about friendship and knowing what real friendships have been in my life, and knowing how difficult it is sometimes for people to form them to maintain them, especially with everything else going on in their lives and in the world around them. I wanted to talk to the two of you because you've been, you know, so important in modeling what it

means to be a friend. You have fought for your friendship, you have committed to your friendship, and I find that really inspiring. I'm getting so emotional, and I'm really going to try not to cry. But I think that hearing you articulate everything that you said about your friends who are gone like that is why it matters. You know, this idea that, um, you can love people so deeply and they can mean so much to you. Know, I think that as a society we are not great at

reinforcing that those people can be your friends. And when I hear you say that, I I'm just remind it again and again that we we need people need to know that the greatest loves of your life can be your friends. And the reason that it's worth fighting for your relationships, particularly your friendships, is because you know we are not all going to be here, and if you are lucky, you will pass on in the same season of life. But that is not a reality for everyone.

And I think feeling that you really gave it your all and that you feel not unresolved about how you expressed your love to someone that meant so much to you, you know, I keep coming back to that over and

over again. It's why this is so important. It's true, and we also owe a great debt to you in terms of feeling like we can be honest and open about these kinds of things, and um, We're very aware that we did not like spring from nothing, you know, we come from uh, you know, amazing examples in you know, lgbt Q scholarship and in you know, feminist movement, and you know, examples of women in politics and business and in all these other areas that really enable us to

have the conversations that we want to have now. And so that's one reason why it's so powerful to hear you say that, because we are also very grateful. Thank you, my friends. I am so delighted to talk to you both. Thank you so much. Thank you, I mean not to. And Ann's book is called Big Friendship How we keep each other close, and you can hear them every week on their podcast, Call Your Girlfriend. I first met John and Giselle Fetterman when I was on the campaign trail

in two thousand sixteen. I was struck by their shared commitment to public service and by how much fun they have together. As Lieutenant Governor and second Lady of Pennsylvania. They've spurred each other on when it comes to getting things done for their community and advocating for people who

really needs somebody in their corner. They live in Braddock, Pennsylvania, where John was mayor for thirteen years, and if working at homeschooling their three children wasn't enough, recently, their lives got even busier when John announced that he's running to be the next U. S. Senator from Pennsylvania. I really was looking forward to talking to them together for this podcast. Well, let me just welcome you to this show. I'm so excited to talk with both John and Giselle. And we

know everybody's been you know, kind of COVID isolated. Just give our listeners a little insight into managing three kids while you both stay so busy and watching political campaigns and fulfilling your duties as lieutenant governor of Pennsylvania. You know, we have a six year old, a nine year old, and eleven year old boy. It's fun, it's overwhelming. I know that you know, we're gonna look back and be grateful for all this time that we had together. I mean at times I hide in the closet for a

little bit. Yeah, well, how did the two of you meet. I'm just gonna say this that she's gonna tell the story to embarrass me. It's a very romantic story. I hope everyone has tissues. Uh So at the time, I was working out of Newark, New Jersey and Food Justice

and food Access. I nutritionist by trade, and I was at a retreat and I read this article about this community of Braddick and they talked about the history of this incredibly rich community, Andrew Carnegie's for steel mill, big contributions to this country, and then it was kind of left behind, and that was really upsetting to me. It just felt wrong. And I loved the Brooklyn Bridge when I lived in New York. I just love this bridge. I thought it was magnificent. And I learned that the

steal that built the Brooklyn Bridge came from Braddick. Brazilians. We believe in signs, and I said, this is a sign. So I wrote a letter to the borough and I shared the work that I was doing with Food Justice and I wanted to visit and learn more and understand how this could happen to a city like this. And the letter ended up with John and he called me. I came to visit, I think like two months later, and then I arrived and he felt madly, just madly in love with me. So yeah, so that's how she

tells it, and that's obviously not true. But she enjoys shutting that out there, and then when people see what an ogre I look like and which she looks like, they assumed that it's like, well, that's got to be true. But it is true that that but for her reaching out to that letter, I don't know if our paths

would have ever crossed. You know. One of the reasons that I wanted to talk with both of you is because you both are known for your public service and for you know, really trying to help people, and you have a partnership, and the partnership is really key to what both of you have been able to accomplish. And so Giselle, I want to start with you first. How

did you get involved in public service? And really what I view and reading about everything you're doing a really creative approach to you know, service and empowerment of people. Thank you. I think my stems from gratitude. You know. I came to this country as a young immigrant. My family essentially live in the shadows for almost fifteen years. We were undocumented, and we found ourselves in this whole new world and kind of navigating our way around it.

And I saw things that I knew weren't the best way for something to be done, and I was never in a position to be able to do something about it. So I collected these kind of pains and these stories and these experiences for when one day I was in the position to do something about it. And so I think it comes from I'm grateful that I get to live in this country and I get to do the work that I do, and that's what keeps me going. That really resonates with me. You know, John, your story

is also fascinating to me. How did you originally get into public service? It's it's your family that that did. I was in year two of AmeriCorps, which you know very well. You know the history there. Um. I went to the Hill House, which was an organization in Pittsburgh's historic Hill District, which is the Great Black Jazz It's kind of like the you know, the Second Harlem, if you will, of America, to teach g D classes and set up computer labs there, and that was made possible

by AmeriCorps. I was at twenty four year old and I wanted to get into public service, but I wasn't sure how, but AmeriCorps made that possible. So so thank you well. I think in a list of accomplishments that my husband's most proud of AmeriCorps way up at the top. So I will pass that on. We need more of that in America right now. I hope that part of the change in our politics and our society is trying to intentionally create more and more opportunities for service, which

then has the benefits that you just described. John, when you came to do that g e D program, what was your transition into decigning to run for mayor and Braddock? How did that happen? Yeah, just to put that in context, Braddock had lost its population. It was as vibrant and robust as Silicon Valley is because Pittsburgh and the steel industry was that industry that was driving American innovation. Fast forward to when I showed up twenty years ago, you know,

affiliated with AmeriCorps. We lost the population and the community was around black and it was one of the port is, one of the porst communities in Pennsylvania. So I started setting up programming to help young people get their g

d s, get their jobs. There's driver's license. And then after a couple of years it was going beautifully and I was feeling really enriched, but two of my students were killed with guns, and it really hit me with a realization that it's great that I can get someone a g D or a job, but that's not much

help if they're not around to to do that. So I I ran for mayor, wanting to be the change I hoped to impose or create in my community, and that would be that you don't lose anybody through gun violence. And that first race, the young people that I worked with, you know, my former students, all registered to vote and went and knocked on door to door for me. And long story short, I won that first race by one vote,

one vote, one vote. So I have the ultimate every vote counts story because I would never have been mayor, lieutenant governor, or you know, having the esteem, privilege, and honor to be talking to you this morning, but for that one vote back in two thousand and five. Well, what I like, though, is that you are willing to speak out and invite people to come into the conversation. You've been an outspoken advocate on everything from lgbt Q rights,

immigration reform obviously, to marijuana legalization. One of the subjects you've really run with as lieutenant governor. But in following your career and just on that marijuana legalization issue, what you did was very much in keeping with how I think of politics. You traveled the whole state, the whole Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. You went to you know, every corner, engaging people. You had people who agreed with you, people who disagreed, and people who just wanted to know what

the debate was all about. And that led you then to be able to make a recommendation and based on real conversations, how do we get back to that, John, how do we try to reinstate the sense of um, you know, not only civility, um, but you know, a real conversation about the direction of our country going forward.

Well that that what a great question because like it just brought me back to Pennsylvania has sixty seven counties, and I insisted to go every single one of them, and just to give you an idea of the diversity of Pennsylvania, Like our our smallest county has five thousand people in it. And it's hard to remember that we're all Pennsylvanians because our life experiences could be so drastically different.

But you just mentioned the words civility and and my gosh, like those meetings were all civil, it was such a great conversation, like going to the reddest communities, the reddest counties in Pennsylvania, Like it's it's nostalgic, but it's crazy, is that wasn't even that long ago, and you know how much things have changed and how toxic things have gotten. But I also learned that people really want to talk

and people want to be engaged. You really get to see a person's experience through his or her own eyes when you're in their own community. Absolutely, and social media has has weaponized cruelty and given it a velocity that is unprecedented where if you're in a room and personal, it's a lot harder to do and say some of the things that get flown around online and never once you know, in the reddest county. So your question really made me nostalgic back to a time where we could

have a conversation. And I also discovered that around Pennsylvanians are for this. It's not a hard left kind of niche issue. It is a populist like let's just do it already thing. You know, of course, more Democrats than

Republicans but a majority of Republicans too. But what has happened, you know, as has been well documented and as we have all experienced the fore president's campaign and presidency in bold, did a lot of people to be more vocal in expressing racists and xenophobic and other very negative, hateful points of view. And that's something that your family has experienced firsthand. And Giselle, you had a particularly unfortunate experience at the

grocery store this past fall. What happened there? So I do usually have the protection of stay troopers with me because of my husband's role in this time. I just was running to the grocery store, which is just three minutes from my house. I just sometimes like to go by myself because it's you want to feel normal, right, And the golden Quewis were on sale, and they those

are my favorite. And I ran to get some golden Quwi's and I was in line to pay, and this woman passed and recognized me, you know, she stopped and it just began from there. She you know, yelled some slurs. She said that I don't belong here, that I'm a thief and I'm belonging in this country. And I was paralyzed. I mean, I'm I think I'm really good at standing up for someone else, but it's when it's for me, I just kind of freeze and just start crying. And

that's what I did. And I paid quickly, and I ran off to my car and I was leaving. She followed me to the car and continued again yelling slurs at me. And it was it was a pretty terrible harbor experience of many people face UM in this country unfortunately. UM. But I you know, when it happens to you and it's so close, that hate is so close to your face, it was a lot to process. Wow, I'm so sorry that happened. How do you try to deal with that? How do you understand that? What can we all learn

from that? So I cry a lot. I think that's my first thing. But you know, I tried to understand that that woman, for example, she wasn't born that way. She didn't come out of you know, into this world hating me because I was born in a different country or spoke a different language. So I have to understand that she was taught that, and I my hope is that she can be the one who breaks that cycle. Right,

we want to continue to break cycles. I I thought of that incident, thinking like, my gosh, did she have children, does she have grandchildren? Is she teaching them this? So I asked that she um received support to be able to find a way out of this. I wanted her to see herself and say, I don't really like that person, you know, I don't want to be that person anymore, UM, and that she can be the one who breaks that cycle.

We'll be right back. You know. One of the hard parts though about being in public life is your kids. And I remember when Chelsea was, you know, maybe old enough to understand the conversation we were having with her five or six. We were telling her that, you know, she would hear mean things said about her daddy and mommy, and you know, she had to understand that that would happen. And she was so I could just remember a little face and her eyes getting really big. Well, why would

anybody do that? Why would anybody say anything mean? And yeah, we're we're there with you. Yeah, but you have to prepare your children. And and I know that, UM, you guys have done that because I've read about how you talk to your kids and tell them that you know, sadly, this is part of the world. And when you're out in the public as you both are, you know that's going to happen. Do they understand that you think they do? They really do. They've lived it for a long time.

And I don't wanna you know, I want to shield as much as I can, but I also want them to know that this is the world. You know, I'm raising them not for us. We're raising them for this world so that they can be agents to combat the rest that's out there. And I remember the night of that incident. I came home and I was really upset and crying for a few hours, and we're trying to explain what had happened to the kids because I was alone. In August, who's six, He's like, Mom, you're so adorable.

How could anybody say anything to you? Like he was out age. Well he's a very perceptive child, That's all I could say. Well, so now you two have launched a new adventure because John, you have announced your running for the Senate. How did you make that decision? Well, I mean I just always want to be in a

position to serve. I mean it started things in my life worked out like you know I was the product of a kind of an unplanned teenage pregnant romance, so my beginnings could have turned out one way or the other. But I was fortunate where I ended up in a place where I'm able to and I want to contribute because I just wanted to make the world a better

place and pay it forward. And that's a lane that made the most sense, and that really crystallized after we got into a place with our former president doing and saying things that were beyond the pale of dismantling democracy. And I was so outraged that eight out of our nine Republican Congressional delegation members who were on the same ballot saying, you know, the voters loved me. No fraud in my race, but man, Joe Biden, you rigged it

for him. The fact that there are people willing to trade political capital and temporary popularity to damage this nation's democratic franchise appalled me at a level that I never could have imagined. And I said this in jest, but it's also true that if I am the next Senator, I promised to be on Sedition free. I love that, and everyone knows I'm no fan of politics, I'm too sensitive.

My heart can't handle it. Um. But for me, I think was you know, my family in Brazil, it's everyone's him to come to America always, you know, every conversation I have with them, it's like, I'll see you soon. It's this this long American dream. And when all this was happening and everything felt like it was falling apart, my family stopped saying that, They're like, we're fine here, and UM, that was a really sad moment because I love this country so much and I want them to

continue to dream of of being here. And I think that's what Um. You know, my support for him full came. John. I know that after you announced your Senate campaign, an incident that happened in Braddock when you were mayor back in got some renewed attention on social media particularly, So

I just have to ask you, John, what happened? So in is outside and experienced a really large and sharp burst of gunfire and there was an individual, you know, covered head to toe, couldn't tell what their race was, what there there was running from this corridor where there's been a lot of shootings over the years there and I made that split second decision I called nine one one, and I got my family in safely, and I made

the decision. This was a few weeks after Sandy Hook as he as the individual was heading towards our elementary school to intercept him, didn't point the weapon against him. It was over in less than thirty seconds because the police were coming from such a short area. And the allegation was is that it was somehow racially motivated, when that just couldn't be further from the truth. What I can say, though, is is that Braddock served as my my jury after that, and they knew it had nothing

to do with the race. They knew it had nothing to do with anything other than somebody rising up to intervene in a situation where there was undisputed gunfire. Multiple residents you know, attested to that. And they re elected me by a greater than three to one margin four months after this incident, and then to another term four

years later, and then to lieutenant governor. And I've just said that my twenty years in Braddock, the most thing I'm most proud of is we stopped gun deaths in our community for five and a half years for the first time ever. And it has to be said, profiling.

You know this history in the black community. It's a real thing, and I certainly understood that, But at no point in time was I ever aware of this individual's race or even gender based on how they were dressed and how far apart we were and how rapidly this

all happened. Well, I want to bring this back to the two of you because I'm fascinated about partnership and one of my stories that I love about you, Giselle is I think it was a birthday and John asked you what you wanted, and you said you wanted a container. And I'm not talking about like a little tiny container for a plant. I'm talking about a container that goes on a huge ship. And so John just kind of went, okay.

I had just got a nice honorarium, which I never kept any honorariums, of course, they all went to charity. And She's like, I need I want to start this thing called the Free Store, and I'm like okay. So we would always drive by this place that creates a container offices, like you know, like out of like a legitimate ocean cargo shipping container, and the price was X and my honorarium was literally X I was like, okay, sure,

here you go. And then that was what nine years ago, nine years ago, and that has become the Free Store, and she has created something that is as fine as anything that's ever been done to helping the really basic fundamental needs of the folks here. It was so the two of you kind of have educated each other about all sorts of things during your your partnership. Yes, mostly me educating him because I'm just I'm just the arm candy secretary, you know, like, well, it's a great partnership.

I want to thank you for, you know, one of the best memories with Grace. You know, we were waiting for your event and everything was running late because that's

what happens in campaigns. And she was starving and grumpy because that's who she is, and we see you coming and I said, look, Grace, there she is and she said, great, but now I'm starving and you've got a big bag of chips from your husband, and I have the best picture of her just so to her, you are the one who fed her that day, and she she that's a great metaphor because you know that that's how I

think about public service. You know, it is a process of meeting and yes, feeding all of the needs that are out there. So I just wish that both of you, you know, the very best in your you know, public and professional and personal pursuits altogether. Thank you for talking to me today. The Pennsylvania Senate election in is one of the most important contests in the country upcoming, So if you're paying close attention, as I hope you are,

please come back next week. When I talked to another terrific Democrat in the race, Malcolm Kenyatta, you know, partners are great, but what if you don't have one? My next guests set out to answer that question for one very specific demographic college students stuck at home during the pandemic. Iliana Valdez is a senior majoring in computer science at Yale University. Her brother Jorge graduated from college a few

years ago and now works as a software developer. This fall, they found themselves sheltering in place, so along with a friend, they came up with the idea for a new dating site called okay Zoomer and worked together to build it. I think it's safe to say it's been a resounding success. Hi, Alianna and Jorgey, Welcome to the show today. Hi, thanks for having us. Well. I was so intrigued by Okay Zoomer and I wanna learn all about that. But first a little bit about the two of you, your brother

and sister. I'd love to learn more about where your interest in programming came from. So I love to tell people that it started in the womb because my mom was at college studying for computer science when she was pregnant with me. But after that, like my big brother did it. So of course, like I wouldn't be like, well, it's a pretty good combination, but the two of you working together have created something new. It's called Okay Zoomer, a great name. What inspired you to do this, Eleana?

How how did you even think about it? So when we got sent home, UM, a lot of my friends and I were on Facebook because that's all we had to do at home UM in quarantined, and a lot of people were posting really funny memes about not being able to have a love life anymore and not being able to find their partner before they graduate. So I remember we were like, what if we solve that problem?

What did we help people find that partner before they graduate Yale or they graduate whatever university is that they're going to. And my brother was like, so quick to be on board and behind the mission. I love that, Jorge. So here, your little sister comes home from school and she says, you know, this is really bad because my

friends and I are feeling really isolated. She comes to me with this Google form of people who are expressing their desire to find their match right, and it's got over ten tho sign ups on it, and she's like, I'm not sure how I'm going to get these people their perfect match. And one night and I'm like, Okay, we can solve this together. Let's let's figure it out. Well, you did a lot of the programming behind Okay, Zoom or Orge. What makes it different from other dating apps?

We try to not provide any means of superficial first impression, so there's no pictures on the site. Really, the only thing we're doing is giving you basic demographic information and leaving it on you to reach out to that person. Um. And another thing that's different is that we only give you a match every Friday. You know, It's not like Tinder, where you're getting an endless stream of people that you

might be interested in. So really it's focusing on like making core personal relationships that are built to withstand and Iliana, You're not just making potential romantic matches, as I understand it, You're helping your fellow college students replicate the kind of random encounters they might have if they were, you know, in the dining hall or the library or walking out of a class, so that they could have a more normal life right now. Yeah, that was a big driving

force behind it. I'm also a freshman counselor and a lot of our first years like have not been able to meet other people. Um, so this is definitely like something we want to apply it to. We want to make sure that, you know, students who are completely remote still get that experience of networking, because that's a huge important part of being at college. Aleana, Why do you think Okay zoomer has struck such a chord and and how many people have actually ended up using it so far?

I think a huge part of what it struck such a chord is because our current apps like Tinder and stuff like that are very driven on hookups and like short term interactions, which did not survive the pandemic because we were gone and separated from each other for eight months, and so people realize, wow, maybe there needs to be a different method for me to build these like meaningful conversations before I start a relationship with someone to make

sure that it's going to last. Um So that's been a huge like part of why I think it worked. And we've had over twenty thou people use it so far, and that number keeps growing. Have you gotten any testimonials that show that you're doing the right thing, You're you're really helping people during such a difficult time. Yeah. So one of my best friends actually is currently in rural Wyoming. In rural Wyoming, his tender options are like zero to none.

Um So, it's definitely been a huge factor for people that they still want to date people they have things in common with, so that means they still want to date people at their respective universities. But the dating apps they're out there just aren't cutting it anymore, especially in our new globalized community that we have. It's just we know that we're going in the right direction just because we've been able to serve a lot of people who

haven't been served by the current dating apps anymore. Okay, before we close, I have to ask have either of you gone on any Okay Zoomer dates. I've gone in an Okay Seemer friend date and it was awesome. Met a nice person from Princeton and check in every now and then. How about you or Unfortunately I'm out of

the age demographic at this point. Well, I'm sort of hoping that as you grow and develop this new site that you expand it for ages, because it's not only college kids who need to have, you know, positive connections without the pressure of appearance being front and center and all the ideas of dating and the pressures that that brings. So I'll put it a plug for you know, expanding

Okay Zoomer. I want to thank both Iliana and Jorge and really congratulate you on making such good use of the time you had during COVID to create something that can bring people together in some really good and positive ways. Thank you both very much. Thank you to check out Okay Zoomer go to Zoomer dot Love. Speaking of partners, we could not make this podcast without you our listeners,

and I love hearing your stories and ideas for upcoming oos. Recently, after our episode on doing hard Things, I asked you to share some of the hard things you've had to do, and boy, I got so many wonderful responses. Anna wrote to me about how hard her parents have been working as they try to keep their small business and employees

afloat during this pandemic. Sharon and so many others wrote in about dealing with loss and grief, the death of a loved one, the difficulty conceiving, caring for aging parents, and so much more. Thank you to everyone who has written in, and on a related note, for a future episode,

I'll be answering questions from listeners. So if you have a question about the podcast about public service, about the skills that I have or haven't mastered during this pandemic, for example, leave us a message at mine one four four five eight one four four one. Again that's nine one four four five eight one four four one. We just asked that you try to keep it to you know, a minute or so, or if you prefer, you can email us at You and Me Both pod at gmail

dot com. I really look forward to hearing from you. You and Me Both is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and Lauren Peterson, with help from Huma Aberdeen, Nikki E Tour, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Rob Russo, and Lona Valmiro. Our engineer is Zack McNeice and the

original music is by Forest Gray. If you like you and me both, please help spread the word, tell your friends about it, post about it on social media, and make sure to hit the subscribe buttons so you never miss an episode. You can do that on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening and see you next week