Bonus Episode: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi

a group of seditionist insurrectionist traders. You know, I try to get out if the weather permits, to take a long walk every day. And I was out walking and I don't look at my phone, and I don't know what's going on in the world. And I walked back into my house after the attack had started, and my husband and had the television on. He said, you've got to see this. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was just shaken and shocked and angry and sad.

Presiding over the house at the time that our capital was breached was the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. You know, she's someone I've known a long time, worked with over a lot of years. She's incredibly thoughtful, tough, smart, effective. I mean, it's just not an accident that after having literally five kids, she joined politics thirty years ago when she was fifty years old and just ascended because of her character, her smarts, her skills. She's someone I've been

eager to have as a guest on the podcast. I never ever could have predicted that I would finally talk to her about such an unprecedented, terrible moment in American history. So, Speaker Pelosi, thank you for being here, and I, as an American, am incredibly grateful for your steadiness and your

devotion to our democracy. How are you holding up? Well? First, let me just say I was very much looking forward to being with you at the kind words that you say, I accept on behalf of my House Democratic Caucus colleagues. They've been so courageous, so steadfast, so patriotic, so committed to their oath of office, and and that's the source of not only inspiration but strength to me. So I'm sad.

I'm deeply sad because here it is the capital, this symbol of democracy, to the world being overrun by people who are being incited by a person he was not speaking truth, but he said, well, we've got to move on. No we can't move on. No, we can't move on. We we will move on, but we have to take stock of what this is when the really invasion, because that's what it was. The invasion of the capital happened

January the six. You were in the middle of certifying the November election, doing the work of democracy following the constitution. When did you realize the capital itself had been breached by the mob? Well, we were, as you say, we were counting the Electoral College votes to ascertain that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris would be President and Vice president United States. So it wasn't a coincidence that had happened

that day. It was purposeful that it happened that day to prevent us from exercising our constitutional duty to get this done. With two thirds of the House Republicans voting that the election was not legitimate and that's really heartbreaking. So anyway, we were having the debate when the security just pulled me off the podium. Sometimes staff takes me off the podium when they think the Republicans are going to do something obnoxious and I'm like, no, I can

handle it. I can and this now you have to go so fast that I even left my phone on the podium. I was using it so I could gauge the time as people were speaking. The Parliamentary and tells me at the time, but I like to know a little in advance, so I left, just pulled me right out, and they said at that point that there were storming the capital, and the security just whisked away. But it

was stunning. But now again they are protective, and I thought, well, okay, yeah, I'll go with you because it's your job to make sure that I do and I don't want to endanger anybody else and I'm the target, you know. So so when we got in the car, I said, well, were we going like to another room. No, we're going to an undisclosed location. But it wasn't about me, because I security,

It's not my members. And they were traumatized by it somewhere on the floor, somewhere on the gallery watching Because of COVID, we had to have our distancing and those up there they had to go under their seats for a long time, and then they had to like do a belly crawl across the gallery so that they could have a safe egress from the chamber because if they had gone out the door. They were nearest too. They were there, They were there, and they were out to

harm people. Yes they were. That's becoming clearer and clearer every day with the evidence that is being found. You know, it is terrifying though in you know my however, many years now, being in public life at a high level, you do have to follow your security. You sometimes grumble about it. You think, come on, you're overreacting. I know it's your job, but you know, when I've been told I need to put on a bulletproof vest or a bulletproof raincoat, or people run up to this stage and

grab my arm, it's a terrifying experience. But as you rightly point out, this wasn't only about you. This was about your members, Democrats and Republicans, because I know what a caring heart you have, Nancy, and just the image of these members elected to represent Americans crawling on their bellies to escape the House chamber is just beyond outraging. And it was several hours before you were given the go ahead to return. What happened then, well, let me

just say that first about my members. I've asked all of them to write a journal to record how they saw it. I said, this is history. Your perspective, your individual perspectives are very important part of that. And then in another month, I want you to write again your perspective because it's this is a pain that people will carry. It's a big scar on our nation. And again people felt it very up close and personal. Then so I've

asked them all. I said, this will be the historic record, and so I'm very excited about seeing what they put down there because the world should know. Okay, So in a bipartisan way, Miss McConnell, Chuck Shumer and I that Stanny Hoyer was there too in Kyburne, we all agreed we had to go back to the capital. The security was making suggestions that we would all be transported by buses to an undisclosed location. The members would come there and said, now the world has to see. Now, just

get it ready. We're coming back, and so you give us a reasonable estimate as to when that could be. But understand this, we're coming back and we're opening the session in the capital of the United States, and our place was still a mess, but that's unimportant. It was safe for us, and we're not coming back one minute before it's safe but not one minute after it's safe. So let's just get that done. And I think it

was really important. But that was by Parson. Miss McConnell was very insistent as well that we do that, and I think it was important for our country and for the members. I thought so too. I was horrified by everything that I saw happening on television, but I was heartened by the return to the capital and to the business at hand. It was an absolutely essential message to send not only to our country, but to the world, and in particular to those who thought that they could

disrupt our democracy. I know that in the vandalization of your office, in addition to taking things like your left turn and other objects from your office, they left you a message that said we will not back down. Well, you did not back down, and the leadership and the members did not back down. When you look forward, Nancy, what do you see as a path that you and members of Congress, and obviously the incoming Biden Harris administration, but really Americans across our country can follow to try

to overcome the damage that has been done. Well, we have that responsibility, that's for sure. But I do believe that Joe Biden is a unifier that he will be respectful as he is firm as we go forward. I do think a strong economic package that lifts people up. You said so beautifully in your campaign about people seeing a place for themselves in the future. Many of these people don't see that place. And if he shows them that there is a place for them, it's not a

zero sum game. Women and minorities and LGBD cube people are are thriving. That isn't at their expense because we're addressing the climate crisis. It isn't at the expense of their job. Now there's one other element that I have been talking about for a long time that gives me great grief as a Catholic. I think that Donald Trump as a president because of the woman's right to choose. When he signed that paper saying these are the judges

that I will appoint. That was the dog whistle to the evangelicals, to the Catholics and all the rest, a woman will not have the right to choose. And when you see the polls of that impeachment, now think what happened was wrong somebody some percent said he's responsible, but forty percent don't think he should be impeached. Well, why one issue? Abortion? And that is that is enough. When you take the greed of those who want their tax cut,

that's probably a small number, but nonetheless a number. And then you take the abortion issue. And many of these people are very good people, that's just their point of view, but they were willing to sell the whole democracy down

the river for that one issue. And you know, one of the terrible ironies of their position is that starting in the nineties under democratic presidents, the abortion rate went way down, and with proper contraception and education and stigma free conversation, the numbers can continue to go way down. So what's really incredibly sad is how those who, in my opinion and experience, do not view this issue as a priority, have used the legitimate questions, concerns, and yes,

understanding of faith to obtain and use power. When we said then was if you reject terminating a pregnancy, you should love contraception. That's right. And again there's a great deal of hypocrisy here because many of these people, of course, so they're not having thirteen children as one as somebody who had five children, almost exactly to the day in six years I said to my colleagues, when you have five children six years you come around and talk to

me as a Catholic. You know, I come from a family that is I would like to see me soften my message on this subject. But they know this is something I am all the way with and and so I understand and I respect their point of view for them, right, But that doesn't mean it's a point of view for somebody else, right. And your overall point is, you know,

let's have a true economic safety net. Let's have a true jobs program, including an infrastructure program, which I know is at the heart of your commitment to the future. Let's have a health care system that covers everyone with quality, affordable healthcare. And then let's talk. I think first things first, we'll be right back. We learned a lot about our system of government over the last four years with a president who disdains democracy and as you have said numerous times,

has other agendas. What they all are, I don't think we yet know. I hope historically we will find out who he's beholden to, who pulls his strings. I would love to see his phone records to see whether he was talking to putin the day that the insurgents invaded our capital. But we now know that not just him, but his enablers, his accomplices, his cult members have the same disregard for democracy. Do you think we need a nine eleven type commission to investigate and report every thing

that they can pull together and explain what happened? I do. Let me again to your point of who is he beholden to? As I've said over and over, as I said to him in that picture with my blue suit, as I was leaving, what I was saying to him, as I was pointing rudely at him, with you, Mr President,

all roads lead to Putin. I don't know what Putin has on him politically, financially, or personally, but what happened last week was a gift to Putin because Putin wants to undermine democracy in our country and throughout the world. And these people, unbeknownst to them, maybe are Putent puppets. They were doing Putin's business when they did that at the incitement of an insurrection by the President of the

United States. So yes, we should have a nine eleven commission, and there's strong support in the Congress to do that. We can't do that until we can pass a bill, and since the Senate's not in, we'll have to do that as soon as Senate is him. But there is or for that. In the meantime, though, I've announced that General Honoray would be giving us guidance as to control and command. Clearly there needs to be a restructuring of

the infrastructure of security in the capital. For listeners who may not know, General Honorey is the retired general who literally came to the rescue of the Katrina disaster. Recovery and reconstruction. His command, presence, his sense of humor, his toughness are all ingredients to do exactly what you've asked

him to do. So we're not waiting for the commission, but the commission will have a bigger agenda and we'll get to the bottom of what complicity members of Congress have in all of this, and if they did, they should be prosecuted as well as others. Whether it's in a security anybody who has anything to do with the Capital could have been a res worse for whose offices were here. I didn't care that they damage things in my life. I don't care about things broken. The big

mirror and the speakers always, I don't care about. I do care that they traumatized my staff, young staff, traumatized them, scared them. If you could see the look in their eyes after having to be under the desk or nearly three hours silent in the dark as people were pounding

on the doors out for blood. When you return that night to certify the election in those very same chambers that had been breached, it was an affirmation of democracy, but it was also a rebuke of the president on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue who tried to undermine our election. I know that you reached out to Vice President Pence. Can you tell us about that. Well, we had been in touch with Vice President Prince all during

the time that we were in undisclosed locations. He was protected in the capital all although they were looking for him as well. They're going to hang him and something violent to me and the other members were expendable as well in their view. So during the day we had a shared view that as soon as we could, we would resume the ascertaining that Biden was president. And I have to say that he had resolved that the constitution

would be honored. So our communication was more in terms of how long did he think it would take what intelligence was he getting compared to what we were getting and was it consistent. And then at some point all of us on the same calls at the same time, Democrats and Republicans, House and Senate, and the Vice President. So he was a positive factor in the course of the day, and I was very concerned that he was

still in the capital. But he said at one point at the entourage of a vice president leaving the capital could have been provocative in some ways as well, So that decision was made following that. Of course, we wanted him to do the amendment to the Constitution, which he did not feel he could do. I was disappointed because this president is a clear and present danger to the country. Every day that he is in office, every hour that he is in office, he can do something very damaging.

Just for example, we got sworn in on January three, a Sunday, not a normal day for swearing in. Normally we would wait until Tuesday to get sworn in, but we could not give him that time, which would be recess between the end of one session at the beginning another. He could appoint hundreds of appointees that would take maybe a year to undo damage the ability of the Biden administration to make appointments and proceed with an agenda. So we'd and will give him five minutes. We adjourned and

we came in session right away. He's a very dangerous man, and we had to make sure that we protected against anything he might do to hurt the country. And you were so concerned that you actually called the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Staff, the highest ranking military officer in our country, to express your concern about this man starting a war, even god forbid, using a nuclear weapon. Didn't you, Well, here's a man who is not allowed to be on Twitter,

and yet he has access to the nuclear code. Really, that's right. I think that of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is a patriotic American. He understands his oath of office to the Constitution. I don't know that he appreciate it might call, but in any event, I thought it wasn't very important to know that there had to be safeguards from this person who was unhinged. He is unhinged and really either doesn't know what the Constitution says

or doesn't care. Yeah, I think it's both. I think it's both, and I was heartened by the statement the Joint Chiefs put out calling what happened a sedition and insurrection, which lays a framework and a foundation for the Congress to proceed to hold members accountable. If what we're seeing and hearing proves to be true that there were guided tours and information provided before the six and even during the attack, that's unacceptable, beyond the pale, and there has

to be accountability. You know. One of the things that gets lost in all of this, which you are never far from focusing on, is the agenda that you want to get past with the new administration, and in particular, it is just heartbreaking that while this attack on our democracy proceeds, the numbers of people Americans dying from COVID keep going up, small businesses keep closing, unemployment requests keep rising,

the vaccine rollout is too slow. So you're once again going to be in the position of balancing how we hold the president and everyone else accountable with the very urgent needs that the people of America have. How are you thinking about that? At least you're going to have good partners with the incoming Biden Harris administration and thankfully control of the Senate it's a big difference. The day of the insurrection, thirty six hundred eighty six people died

of coronavirus. The next day, four thousand people die. The record keeps being broken. It's so sad. And when you think it's January, go back a year when the President was first surprised of this and then the subsequent actions he took. It's a hoax, denial, delay, rejection of science, rejection of governance. See, they don't believe in governance. So if government says we're a mask, they reject governance and

they reject the science that says we're the mask. So a lot of these depths, not all, many of these deaths are at the President's store step. So recognizing there has to be a change and the attitude of the American people and the availability of the vaccine now in a fair and equitable way. So I'm very pleased that the agenda, the rescue and recovery package that Joe Biden has put forth. His agenda is very close to what

we've had in our legislation already. As you said, the infrastructure, peace job creating good paying jobs in our country with all the workforce development, so that many more people can participate. Many more small businesses, women, minority people of color, Native American veterans, rural businesses can participate in how we build back better. So we're very excited about it, and I would hope that we could do so in a bipartisan way.

Infrastructure has usually not been a partisan issue, right, and so hopefully we can find common ground there. But I don't have to tell you the importance of the bully pulpit of the President of the United States. So when people talk about, well, we couldn't convince some of this or that, no, we didn't have the bully pulpit. So having that bully pulpit is going to I think make

a very big difference. As we said it earlier, Then people see a place for themselves economically, for themselves and their children to take some of the edge off of that insecurity, we're taking a quick break. Stay with us. I'm going to be at the inauguration, and I know

you'll be at the inauguration. I know that it's not going to be like any inauguration we've ever attended, but I think it's possible once uh it's finalized and we have a new president and a new Vice President to proceed on both the economic agenda and the democracy agenda, because one of the very first bills that you passed in the Congress back after the election was to fix our voting system, to set the rules so that these arguments and these conspiracy theories can be easily deflected or

punctured because we all know what the rules are. And I'm really looking forward to the Congress acting on both the economy and democracy and all that that will mean for the country. Well, I appreciate your saying that that will be a large part of our agenda when we go in. I talked about build back better. But to build back better, people have to have the confidence that

their voice means something, that their participation means something. It won't be guided by big dark money or abuse of the system in terms of the voting rights and the rest of that. But let me just say to you, thank you the inspiration that you are the courage. It's encourages the thing when people talk about their convictions and their commitment to this or that, do they have the courage to make the fight? Can they take the heat

that goes with it? And you, I often wondered when you were in the White House, and since how does she do it? Because these people are so they have such bad intentions. It's one thing we go confident in what we believe in that we've come to fight, debate and prevail or compromise, find a way. We respect difference

of opinion. But what happened during those Clinton years, the particular presidential Clinteers coming from New Language and um Congress of the United States, the House of Representatives in particular changed. That was the threshold that was crossed, that went from differences of opinion to the politics of personal destruction. You handled it so patriotically, so personally strong, a real inspiration to the country. But two women something so very very special.

I'll keep saying to women, another woman's success is your success. You don't have to be concerned. Take heart with that. You made a difference, you changed. It was transformative what you did for a country. I'm getting emotional even to talk about it, because our whole family in a way, if you feel personally, we're loving to you for your contribution to the country, but particularly to the courage, the brilliance,

the vision that you had the knowledge of all these things. Nobody, nobody in recent times is as qualified as you to be president of the United States now, Joe Biden, he was vice president, but up until then, George Bush, Barack Obama, they would admit, Bill Clinton would admit, well, I just feel very blessed to have been able to stand up for our country. And I know that's how you feel, Nancy.

I mean it sounds, maybe to some ears listening incredibly old fashioned and out of date, but if you're raised to love America with all of its faults, it's like the unconditional love you want to give to a child, or that a child hopes to get from a parent. You're not a perfect person, we're not a perfect country, but we have come so far toward trying to realize

our fundamental founding values. And I think what gets me up in the morning, and I know what gets you up in the morning is to continue to stand up for those values despite the storms that can be create it around us. And you have been speaking of beacons the extraordinary leader that we need it at this time. And I can only thank you and pass on not only my gratitude, but I know the gratitude of many,

many hundreds of millions of people here at home. And around the world that in one of our country's darkest hours we had a leader like you. Well, you're nice to say that. I will be there in your corner, cheering you on doing everything I can to be part of the effort to build back better and not only deal with our immediate problems, but our long term challenges that our country faces. Well, I thank you for your very kind words. As I say, except on behalf of

my house Democrats, who are so courageous. It takes no courage for me. My district gives me so much latitude, but for them it does. But also just say has said this about you before. When people ask me what are the three most important issues facing the Congress, I always say the same thing. Our children are children are children, their health, their education, the economic security of their families, safe environment which they can thrive, and world at peace

in which they can reach their fulfillment. And as I've said about you, nobody has done more for our children, our children, their children than Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton. And now that your grandmother, we all understand it's all about the future. We can take care of our children, but the grandchildren there are messengers to the future. Is Elijah Cummings is a message to a future that we

will never see. So I thank you for that. I always say to the women, when you get into the arena, you have to be ready to take a punch. You also have to be ready to throw a punch. That's right for the children. Amen. We will wrap up on the note of I think your nine grandchildren, uh my three grandchild, and so we have a dozen perfectly good reasons to get up every day and continue the fight for the future. We want not just for our grandkids, but really for every child to live up to his

or her God given potential. That's what it's all about. Thank you, madam Speaker. My pleasure, my pleasure, thank you. Nancy Pelosi is the fifty second Speaker of the House of Representatives, now serving her fourth term in that position. She is the second in line to the presidency after the vice president, and she's the first woman ever elected to be Speaker of the House of Representatives of the

United States of America. Well that's it for now. We'll be back in mid February to celebrate a new president and vice president, a new Congress, and hopefully a new chance to bring a out the real changes our country desperately needs right now. You and Me Both is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and Lauren Peterson, with help from Huma Aberdeen, Nikki e Tour, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill,

Rob Russo, and Lona Valmorrow. Our engineer is Zack McNeice and original music is by Forrest Gray. If you like You and Me Both, please share it with your friends. Let them know they can subscribe to You and Me Both on the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening and see you soon for season two