Waleed Aly and Star Wars

Good a Peter Hally here, Welcome to you and See Nothing Yet in the Movie Podcast, where I chat to a movie lover about a classical beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now. And in this episode it's my project co host Walie A. Lee, and I just want to point out this podcast was recorded a week before the sad news of David Prowse's passing. I just wanted to say thank you, David Prowse. I'm

Gay Hurrah.

This bloke goes all right. He's my co host on the Project on Channel ten. He's a Calmness for the Age Thing Morning Herald of New York Times. He's a radio host he's a podcaster. He's got a new one outcords. So now what which deals with the life with the coronavirus? And then what happens next? They are just job titles.

Gooday. My name is Wilid Ali. My three favorite films. Batman begins, I'm Batman, the Princess Bride as he watched and Back to the Future. But until Pete wrope me into this, I had never seen Star Wars.

A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Actually wasn't that long ago all that far. It was nineteen seventy seven in Los Angeles when George Lucas introduced us to a farm boy, a princess, a smuggler, some robots, and a huge dog ape thing that would change cinema and pop culture forever. Luke Skywalker is well bloody hell at Star Wars. You know what I'm talking about? Well, Laide, welcome to you. Ain't seen nothing yet.

That intro was not for me, clearly because I had no idea what you're talking about until not so long ago.

Mate, we should point out that this episode has been a long time coming. Hi, I kind of you know, I think we both do. Sometimes we suss each other out about things we're thinking about or projects we're thinking about taking on. But I kind of ran this by you. I think about three or four years ago.

I might have ever't been longer than that. It feels like a long.

Time a long time, and you nominated Star Wars straight away, and but actually, I think when I pitched the idea the show was going to the podcast was going to be called what do you mean you haven't seen Star Wars?

It was probably about a year ago, because we'll do this about it, yes, And you said you've got to watch it overnight, and I did, and then for some resident.

Happened and I'm not sure it was your fault or my fault. There's no, there's no.

I'm pretty clear on what I have. Yeah, you have your version of events.

I have no, no, no.

It's verified. Well, I definitely know.

So you watched it again, like if you watched it, and so I just watched it. Okay, great, great.

It's very fresh and it's amazing because even though the first time I watched it wasn't that long ago, because it was in preparation for this. I feel like I still forgot quite a bit of it, and so seeing it again was still a bit like watching it the first time.

So I'm very fresh, well excellent, excellent now before we and I'm The other thing is it's been now a year since you've watched it, and so committed to the integrity of this podcast, I have not asked you what you thought of it. I have no idea what's ahead of us. There's been times I think we've circled around it, but even you have been also a man of integrity as you are, and so no, we will wait for the podcast. Don't try to squeeze anything out of me.

Yeah.

I'm sorry to be a cliche in that respect, but i just can't help it. In fact, if you made me choose one, it would probably have to be that one.

And did you see it at the at the rap age.

No, no one saw it. Yeah, thought I was at the.

Right age when you saw it? Did you see it?

Probably I do? You know what, I actually can't remember when I saw it, but I was old enough to get that it was silly, So I wasn't at that age where I thought it was a fairy tale.

Yep.

I got the humor of it, probably not at the level that I would later get it, but enough so I must have been I don't know, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, something like that, and I had the guidance my brother. So my brother's ten years older than me, so he very much got the humor at that level. And so I guess I watched his interaction that and that clued me into some of the human that was going on. But it's just is it the most quotable film ever conceivable?

Well, the most quotable film, you know, outside of whimsy or comedy, which you know, I feel like those comedy films get quoted for different reasons. Lines almost. I think the most quotable filming in fact that and we've spoken about it on this podcast is Cassiblanket Like officially the most most revered kind of lines. But maybe that's a separate thing.

See, I feel like with that, you quote that without knowing you're quoting it, because those lines have just become part of it. Is that the Frankly, my dear, I don't give it.

Is that that's the win, and everyone, including myself gets gone with the wind and.

Castle Blank, Yeah, yeah, yes.

One's incredibly racist. One's only a little bit racist.

As long as they're racist. So, but you know what I mean, It's one of those lines. I feel like with Castle Blank. I don't know this, but I feel like with Castle Blank that happens a lot, whereas with Princess Bride, everyone who quotes it knows exactly what they're quoting,

Have you shared it with your kids yet?

Yeah? So my daughter, my son doesn't get it. He was too young, I think when we started watching. Yeah, I think I did, although I think I've still got time. I think I can still get him. Yeah, Okay, my daughter watched it and straight away, just straight away loved it and then started watching it on her own, and like, it's that kind of because I feel like it does

You think a lot of it is? Also it's a great film, and I won't bore everyone, but I'll just I feel, like I always say when it comes out, it doesn't have the absolute same place in my heart as it has so many because I think I watched it. I watched it later in my twenties. So but I really I'm really desperate to see it in a cinema and I want to take my youngest son, san Oscar, who's twelve, to see it, to kind of experience it, to try to kind of ReCl you know, put myself in that headspace.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea.

That's my plan going forward.

I'm sorry you're not part of our community though, because it's it's a very richly rewarding community.

Should we tell the Many be Thinking story? Will man to hear it? I'm pretty sure Many Thinking is not listening to it. You ain't seen nothing yet?

But no, let me put it this way. Would you have him as a guest on? You ain't seen nothing?

It depends how much, depends how much time I had, right, Yes, so I'll set up the first half so for those who don't know, while letting myself work on a show called The Project. It's a news and current affairs show with the entertain aim as well. We try to do a bit of both. And we had Many be Thinking

It was the first series too, wasn't It's the first series, So it was like, this is LRD, this is the lot.

And you don't get you know, second chances, any won first impression. So the plan was to have Many patinking on and then and then have the star of How to Stay Married, my co star Lisa mchuwn on, And we knew that I really wanted to make sure that Lisa mchuwne had enough time, that we had enough time to have fun but also promote the show. And you know, there every thing we want to do when we're promoting a show. So Lisa's in the last segment, which is

Means less hell yes, yes.

Yes, exactly right, so many but thinking has been a lovely guest. He's been, you know, like so delightful off off screen, so delightful and so entertaining on the show. And I'll let you take it from there.

Then, as we're commencing the wind up, for some reason, I still can't remember, I cannot remember the question we asked him.

I think you went there, wrap up up, you know, and and you said you gave him a little something.

I don't know what it was. I do regret it, I know I regret it. And he decided he would commence telling a story something to do with refugees, and he happened upon a particular refugee. He was like a twelve year old boy from Afghanistan. As we are getting the floor, crew doing a huge wind up gest ure. Anyone who's been in a TV studio will know the one, right, And it's just this circular motion with you with the arm, and it gets bigger and bigger and more furious.

I started filling a breeze.

Yes, it was annoymous. It's someone install a fan. What's going on? And as this wind up he is getting more and more furious, he decides he will pass on the words from this twelve year old I think Afghan boy who had been through something horrific that he promised

I was half expecting the studio audience to leave their chairs and just go sit at his feet.

Amazing. And I don't know how long the pause was as he thought and drew breath and just read it himself for imparting these well obviously immortal words, But it felt like roughly a century.

So it felt like a century felt two century. I just showed a plug. I just remember going what's going on? And in many the thing is defense. It was a wonderful story as a beautiful.

I think it was. I wasn't listening. I was busy just trying to figure out how I was good, because not only do you have the floor crew winding you, you've got the producer in your ear. Yeah, well know, guys, we have to go now.

I was probably kicking you under the table.

Yeah, I'm sure you were. And at that point you honestly feel like standing up and shouting to the producer, what do you want me to do?

You come out of here and wind Man, you can telling a story about an Afghan boy who's spreading the word of love around the world.

Yeah, that he's promised to pass on the thing.

It pieces me off his that aff ganboy wouldn't have ever been watching.

He probably I don't think he even likes so many. He probably thinks Homeland's racist. As I recall, now, you would remember better than me. But I think it actually worked out really well for you in a way because in the next segment, there were a couple of items, and we ended up dropping the item that wasn't how to stay married. But as I recall, that left us with a bit of a conundrum because instead of you having no time, you and Lisa mcewne ended up with

I think Lisa, for memory, ended up having to do a number of them. Cabaret.

Yes, I think that's how. That's how.

That's my memory.

Yeah, that's my memory too.

But thinking if you're watching, you did nothing wrong. No, I just had some time pressures on me.

That's true. And it's hard to pick up the pacing of our show if you're not familiar with it. Let's just say it's not pink and pacing.

No, it's a little bit more Last and the Furious. No doubt about that Batman begins. There was always going to be I'm surprised there's if I'm if there's any surprise here. It's just that it wasn't like Batman begins, d Knight and Batman and Robin in there somewhere.

Yeah, So I was tempted.

I will say, why you are a massive Batman fan. You usually stroll into the Project office either wearing a Liverpool T shirt, which you are today, or a Batman T shirt that I'm usually Collingwood or Celtics.

I tend not to wear the Richmond one because I don't feel the need to provoke. You do wear on game days occasionally, yes, yes, especially I'm going to the MCG, which I feel like I haven't done in probably roughly as long as a ptinking interview.

Why does Batman Begin stand out over the other Dark Knight? Because the Dark Knight is one that obviously people tend to scientist.

So part of it was just this sort of unavoidable hipster instinct to avoid cliche, because Dark Knight is a fantastic film. But I chose Batman Begins because these are the best Batman films, the Nolan Batman films. Pretty I feel like everything Christopher Noland does just incredible, even though I don't know a lot about film, and I feel I haven't seen just about any films. Whenever I say a Christopher Nolan film the prestige or whatever, like they're incredible.

Yeah, there's always ambition, yes behind it, which.

Is yeah, yeah, in fact, I probably should have put the prestige in there. I remember watching them blew my mind. But anyway, so his Batman, he's the best Batman, and his villains are the best villains. But what I don't know that non Batman fans will appreciate quite so much is Batman Begins is so perfectly done because a he chooses quite an obscure villain in Rasell Gul, who doesn't turn up anywhere really except the comic books, like you don't he wasn't in the sixties series. I think in

Which is a really brave choice when you are launching totally you know, hopefully another franchisee another reboot of the franchise. Not to go with one of your well know, not to go with the Joker.

You think you go a Joker, or you think you go with if not Joker, Penguin and I actually remember in the series there were all these rumors as it was going that Philip c more Hoffman was going to play Penguin and Nolan just in this interview I came across said something really interesting. He said, I'm actually much more excited about the idea of Philip se More Hoffman than I am about the idea of Penguin, which is fascinating.

And he grounds it in this kind of you know, it's caught between a reality like it feels like you know, I think Heat was a big the movie. Heat was a big influence on these films, and I've heard Nolan speak about that. But it's also it still is feels like the superhero world, and I think that's a really tough thing to pull off. So I can understand the joke when you say joke is the greatest villain. What's

Yes, he clearly is.

Yeah, and that's like he's got no actual superhero superhero powers, So what makes him the best superhero?

So he's not the best superhero in that if they all had a fight, I don't think he wins. He's the best superhero for me as a character, as a universe, that's what I'm in. And I think it's because he's psychologically complex and he's morally complicated. Actually, there's a fair argument against what Batman's doing. You know, no one's mounting that argument against Superman, are they. Who's saying is Superman doing.

The right thing?

I don't know about it. Yeah, in some ways I find Superman boring because he's too good.

Yeah. I love the original Super Superman films. I think they came along at a time when I was the Christopher. Yeah, yeah, I was young and I was ready for him and seeing seeing him, you know, take on those you know, the three Bad, Black, Awesome, Awesome two was very good, but the recent ones, you know, when you're trying to watch him as an adult, you're going to go it leaves you a little empty.

So the only I've had a conversation with someone who argued the Superman over Batman case ones, and the most compelling argument he made was Superman raises the problem of absolute good and total power. And so when you have the power to stop anything, but there are times where you have to make a choice over where to use that power, that's interesting. Yep, Okay, it's interesting enough, but it's not as interesting as should he kill the Joker

He's cool, He's the coolest looking superhero.

Yeah.

I wouldn't kill baby Hitler. I would wait until he was older, like an art student.

Well, if he'd been when he didn't go to he missed out.

Missed out, you kicked out, Okay, I thought, but he was became like a barista, because you're not going to miss a barista, you know, like you're get in trouble for killing a baby.

So are you thinking more about the repercussions for you.

Just how it would feel, because if you got caught killing baby Hitler, I don't know he's Hitler yet.

It's true. It's a very hard ask to convince a judge that you don't know what this guy is going to do.

Yeah, when he's when he's painting flowers, sunflowers. Yeah, he hasn't done anything too bad getting them?

How bad would the coffee? You have to be though, before you can justify executing him.

When he's you know, when he starts serving baby chinos.

Right, that's the end, that's out. Speak of history, back to the future. Yeah, great, great selection. There are all great selections, but that is that's one of the all times.

Yeah, and again I had a sequel issue, which one of the series youchoose?

Right?

Oh?

Really? I would clearly have Back to the Future.

Well that's where I landed. Yeah, But I remember as a kid when I watched so the only one I saw in the cinema was three, yep, because that was what nine ninety yeah, so it would have been in grade six, And I still remember going to the cinema with John O'Hare in our school holidays to see Back Future three. But Back to the Future I had already. I'd never heard of Back to the Future until I saw one and two on video or whatever it was, and everyone was talking about it, but I wasn't part

Well it inspired it inspired my children's book series Frankie and yeah, like when you're running time travel, it's hard to come up with one reasons. Why you are you want your characters to go back? Yeah, because always they always get into trouble. Yes, so why are they going to put themselves in trouble again?

Well do they didn't realize though?

Yeah, Well, but this time it's so important. Yeah, yeah, yeah it is.

He's got a real stake.

And then how do you get them back?

It's yeah. And then and there's the Enchantment under the Sea dance. Oh, it's Johnny B. Good is just such a great moment in I mean, you know better than me because I don't know much about cinema, but I feel like that's one of the great moments in cinema.

Oh.

Absolutely, Well, because it's it's it's it's fun, but it's got it's got purpose, you know, it's not it's Sometimes there will be a film where it's a set piece, and that set piece might just be Michael J. Fox singing, singing, you know, a song because they wanted they wanted a moment.

And the risky business sort of.

Yeah, it's it's a song and dance and it's it's just fun. But the fact that he's playing that and he's you know, he's hand starts.

You know.

It's just it's so good, And how.

Good is that line at the end. It's like, I guess you guys aren't ready for that yet, but your kids are gonna love it. It's such a great line.

There's so many great lines. And the third act I think is one of the most perfect third acts in cinema.

Why do you say that.

It's just it moves so beautifully, everything just fits together so well. It's tense. There are just moments, moments after moment after moment after moment, and it all makes complete sense. The only issue I have back to the future that third act is and I don't think it's it's a real issue. But so Marda McFly realizes he has to get back to stop Doc Brown from being mowed down, and he gives himself he's got a time machine, give himself fifteen minutes.

Yeah, there's a bit stupid.

If I was going back to save my best friend for being mowed down by terrorists, I reckon I would give myself a year, and every day for a year, he gets a little post it note I'm putting around his house. You know, I'm calling him mate. Remember the parking lot, you know, spring Ferns or whatever it's called, parking lot. Don't go there, Oliviyan terrorists. Well fine, don't don't do that deal because you actually ripped them off. Yeah,

What I like about this is you've just revealed that you think the terrorists are in the right here. You're on the terrorist.

I'm the one saying that.

Yeah, I'm definitely not why A you're backing away.

From the microphone. Let's take a quick break and we'll be back. Finally, I will finally find out what you thought of Star Wars. Okay, it's been a year since you first watched it, breaking ground, and you ain't see nothing yet. The first time I've had a guest that I'm aware of who has watched the film twice a year apart. And I got to say, when I watched it a year ago when we were planning on doing it and we have to postpone it, and I was watching it knowing, and I've seen Star Wars for forty

With it, and yeah, so she sends me for so many reasons. First, it makes me nervous about what I'm about to say. Secondly, it makes me wonder what you think. I am no.

Well, to be honest, as I watched it again last night. I rewatched it last night. Yeah. Today. It's probably the one film that I could have gotten away without watching again. But I was happy to watch it and I'm committed to the point and I'm glad I did exactly. I really picked up a few things, but I didn't have that same feeling.

But last time, when you got to the end, yeah, I feel like what you're about to say is far more interesting than anything I'm about to offer. What did you get to the end and worry or were you only worried going into watching it?

I no, I think I got to the end. It didn't continue on afterwards, but I think I was that viewing For me, I felt a bit flat. I was like, it wasn't what you thought of and then I come, I shook the laugh and I thought, of course it's good because I always when people and obviously there's a lot of commentary around Star Wars, good and bad, and fans. The more movies they make, the more fans seem to become device divided. Yeah, but I'm always like, remember these

I really liked it?

Whow all right, that's thank you very much.

You know what. It's actually more complicated answer that, because because I ended up watching twice. The first time I watched it, I got to the end, and honestly, I remember thinking, oh, is that it. That's what the whole thing was about.

Just that.

I remember being stunned at how little was in the story and how long it took to get there. Yes, and I kind of felt, especially because am I allowed to give anything.

It's Star Wars. You're the last person to actually Star Wars.

It's done. Now they can get rid of it from them, so.

They back to the future from that is true.

That is true. But they blow up the death start like bloody hell. That's a big deal, right, and they do that and then the next thing is a metal ceremony and that's it. We're out. It's got just like in films, don't you normally get the sort of anti climax or the post climax is probably the right phrases in it, where you know, everyone goes back home, there are meadows there. Am I thinking of order of the rings, you know what I mean?

But it's the very seventies thing they get in quickly. I mean Starars doesn't get actually Stars does getting pretty quickly because Dark Vader, the villain is in like pretty much not the first scene, but the first sequence, you know. And it's it's funny because Jaws, which I watched recently, silly Paquala, Jaws doesn't appear that the villain doesn't appear to like an hour in that Colonel Kurtz, which I did with Dy Singer, he doesn't appeared till like the end,

And you don't even know if it looks significant. I found, Yeah, well did I do because everyone talks about this Skywalkers, which by the way, complicates it as a first feeling because it's so hard not to have picked up just the cultural references. Yes, you can't come to this clean.

Well, I want to. I want to ask you about that. The point I was I was also going to make was the seventies. They just get out of Jaws again Jaws, they kill the shark and then they swim home on like a paddle, two of them, and there's there's that. There's no welcome home ceremonial, there's not like with the wife, Ah, I'm alive. There's none of that. They just get out.

So what's that? Is that an eighties thing?

I think it's probably a budget thing. I think it's it's Yeah, I suspect this. It's largely to do with budget, to be honest.

Really, Yeah, that problem because for its time, I imagine it was quite a big budget film.

It was, but they did spend a lot of the money. They went over budget. Yeah. So, in fact, famously, I think the second film, Empire Strikes Back, they George Money actually paid for it himself because this was such a massive hit, because he got the sequel rights and the merchant more important than the merchandise right, which they which

Right, So that's interesting.

So he got the sequel rights and then he thought, well, they may not make it if it's not if it doesn't work, they're not gonna make sequels. I'll get the merchandise right, and they gave it to him. And the merchandise rights have made are worth double than the films.

It would have to be one of the most lucrative merchandising things in history, I feel.

And one of the criticism of Star Wars going forward after Stars is that George Lucas at times was protecting the toy Empire right over the.

Actual houseover introducing characters.

Well, there was an idea that Han Solo might be killed off in Empire Strikes Back, and you believe it might affect toy sales. Introducing characters like jar Jubbins I'm sure you've heard of and yeah, so.

That's I say. Anyway, first viewing, Yeah, I got to the end, and I wasn't underwhelmed. I was just, oh, this is from a very different time where that was enough. Yeah, that was my initial response. Interestingly, when I watched it the second time, I didn't feel that at all. I felt this is cool, right. I don't know why it was different in that way. The other thing is, the

But it knows a lot, and the dialogue's clunky, and sometimes it's kind of weird how it comes out of people's mouths, and the timing of it is kind of weird. As a point where Darth Vader kind of says, I've had a feeling of it, you know, there's a feeling I haven't felt for a long time, and then it kind of like but then he like turns straight away.

Yeah, But there's something it's very hard to know when you're coming to a film that's this huge and you haven't seen it before. How much is the result of your cultural assumptions about it that you've brought in, how much you're projecting back as opposed to just watching it in the moment. But I can I got the sense that apart from anything else, this is a magnificent esthetic. So in a way, it's just a Goods and Baudi film,

Can you imagine? Like so up until all the all the fi films up until then, they were pretty like a lot of them were bleak. It was two thousand and one. If you look in the seventies, solaris a clockwork orange like Death Race, Planet of the Apes.

So there were think pieces, right.

Yeah, and then there's like some stocks like The Invasion of the Body Snatches, you know, and so you had these kind of like either darker or very kind of high brow or schlucky, you know, sci fi films. And Star Wars isn't a sci fi film. Really, it's a space fantasy. It's a space opera.

You know.

I think there's a difference. And you know, the seventies, obviously, this is the seventy seven, the Vietnam War. You got your Nixon. There had been like an assassination a tent on Nixon, and there's all this stuff going on, and I think Star Wars just came along at the point where it's like, yeah, this has come at exactly the right time, and it's like nothing we have seen before. I remember I always growing up, I assumed I saw it at the cinema. I just assumed I saw it.

How would we?

I reckon. I would have been about seven or eight.

So that's probably the perfect age for it, right, Yeah. Yeah, because I think you're right to point out before that it's effectively a kids film because for me, the bits where I go hang on what are where you ask higher order adult questions about it?

Yeah?

Right, So I still don't know really what the Empire's motivation is, well, I know it's evil because I'm told that from the start. Isn't that's made clear?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess it's really it's and I've never really questioned it either. Actually it's they're bad guys who want the power. I guess, you know, sure to what.

I don't know what they're I don't know what they're after. I don't even really know what the rebels are after. Like, why is the Empire so evil? Apart from the fact that they're fighting the rebels and they wear black and the storm and the rebels have this sort of white or whatever, Like, I get the goody baddie thing is made clear, but I don't know why. Why am I cheering on them? Maybe I don't like their revolution. I

They're trying to control when they end the Jedi. But you're right, why do they want.

I don't none of that's it's just but I feel like, actually that's only recently become the kind of thing that you would worry about. Maybe it's more in TV Evans in it, but like, I feel like we're in an age now of a bit more anti heroes and stuff like that, where goodies and baddies are a bit closer together and the bad guys are off in the heroes. I don't know if Breaking Bad as an example that might illustrate that, or certainly films like The Joker, you know,

And then the recent trilogy kind of wrestles with that, you know, with a character who's torn between good and bad, which is quite interesting that this is it looks firmly Yeah, one of the good guys. You never imagined him turning, even though apparently there were ideas that, you know, I think in at the end of Jedi, I think he was going to put Darth Vader's helmet on and say and now I'm now I'm Vader, which.

Which, well, that would have been controversy.

It would have been controversial and silly.

To be honest, Well, I'm desperate for to take Darth Vader's helmet off. I'm like, I wonder who's under there? This was like, and I think some of this might be coming. I don't know. I don't even know the order of the films. I couldn't tell you.

If so, you've got empire strikes.

That has to be too, right, because they've just suffered a defeat, so they have to strike back.

Yeah, you got to strike back, and then then the return of.

The The other thing I didn't get is why aren't the rebels in charge? If there? So you know how Darth Vader is surrounded by all these four skeptics, right, this is the ancient.

That's what's really interesting when you watch Star Wars back realizing because you're going to grow up thinking, oh, Darth Vader is the boss. You know, you're just kind of like watch it as a kid, and then you know, and your memory kind of then you know, between viewings between cousin Paula coming over and putting it on for you, Dartbat is the boss, and then you're going to go, oh, actually, he's kind of like he's got some other like minor

It was strange, Yeah, until he strangles but yeah, so, but it's interesting. So clearly the Empire doesn't like reckon with or care about the Force.

Yeah, it feels like Data Vader in Star Wars is like three.

Ic yes, so well no, see I didn't feel that. But when you say that, I know what you mean now because he's constantly Yeah, there's there's the guy with the thin face who kind.

Of sliced tomato. Yeah, Peter Cushing, grandma taken.

Yeah, right so he Yeah. I don't know any of these people's names. By the way, none of them ever seemed to be.

It's funny because I mean I've spoken about how much I love Star Wars. I'm very much on the record, you know how I much I adore it. I was never one to know all the characters' names, and I collected all the figures. But they were like, there are people who know the world way more like Star Wars. Let's call them, you know, Star Wars nerds who just like live every detail, know the backstory. Because there's the comics and the books that are also available. I've never

The movie doesn't really do much of a job of explaining that, Like it's it's the focus is so much on here are these characters trying to beat these characters, and here's a bit about an action scene, and like it's so there's so much space in it that's not cluttered with detail. Yeah, and so I don't know who any of these people are. I get the gist of who they are. I know, he's kind of a boss

Look yeah, I mean, look yeah, the whole idea of and that's a power of Luke Skywalker's stories. You seem as a farm boy just wanting to get out. I mean, look, Skywicker probably listens to the Springsteen. He wants is to get out of there and see the world. And that's I think really powerful and really relatable. The characters are all so clearly defined.

Yes, you got these they are what they are, Yeah.

They are. It's the farm boy who's got you know, he's dreaming big. You've got the princess, You've got the charismatics, you know, Smuggler in hahn Chow Easy Psyche, You've got the comedic relief in the R two and three po and you've got the badd in down Vader.

Yeah, Darth Vader's too short. I want him to be bigger. I've noticed throughout that he's filmed from below quite a lot, which I think is meant to aid that. But there are all those moments, you know, the scenes where he turns away and he walks off and someone's following him, like, dude, you're too short.

It's interesting because he shouldn't because he's payed by David Prowse, who's like this bodybuilder who's actually can be seen in a clockwork orange and so. But you're right. And in fact, there was a there was a zigging around on YouTube

So this was Obi One's my favorite character in the film, which I suspect is a function of when I'm watching it as a kid. I'm sure he wouldn't be.

Yeah, I think there's love for Obi Wan. But but yeah, whether he's he's the whole film.

Yeah, yeah, Like without him, none of this happens. I don't quite what happened. Does he come back? Maybe you shouldn't tell me, But what happens? Is he gone now? Is he just like this voice in Luke's head, that's what like he because he says he becomes more powerful in death. Is he dead? Or did he just pull some Jedi move?

There's a there's a thing you'll learn about the Star Wars universe as you move through it, and I sincerely hope you do because the next one's actually cracking.

Am I coming back in a year for that?

Yes, there's such a thing as a force ghost. Okay, so he's become a first one's ever really truly dead. With that said, With that said, he is for all intentsive purposes dead.

But he says he's more powerful when he's dead. Vata presumably should know what that means.

Yeah, I always thought that really was it was not necessarily. I always took that as more so the movement, you know.

Yeah, well so I thought in a symbolic way, yes, But then he's guiding Luke through the whole thing. Now I assume that wasn't just Luke remembering said. I assume that's over one being active and present in the moment, saying do this now, and do this now.

Yeah, Jedi have really good bluetooth and yes, yeah, so that is Jedi's can they do live on right, but not in a way where they really impact. It's more.

Form after Yeah, okay, so that makes sense. But I think there's something about that moment though, which makes it like evocative where Darth Vader strikes him and he's just gone. He's not there at all. It's not there's no dead body, he's just disappeared. So that makes me wonder what exactly is he dead? Because it felt like he pulled a magic trick yeah, and just disappeared and Vader didn't actually strike anything. That's kind of how it feels to me.

Well, there was there was one of the recent movies where a similar thing happened with one of the characters, and and so there was like a year long debate of like, was he is he dead?

Oh? Yes, I remember. I don't remember the character or but I remember that debate because I remember you freaking out about it when one of the trailers was released or something. I don't know. We were on set and rehearsal some time and something happened and I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, but I gather it's a big deal. Now I get a sense of what it might be.

So sorry.

What I was trying to make, which I got sidetracked, is the Empire doesn't seem to believe in the Force apart from Darth Vader. Yes, and Darth Vader says the Force is more powerful than this death Star, so it's clearly really really powerful thing. The Rebel Alliance seemed to have the Force. My evidence for this is that when they're showing the plans of the Death Star, and they're saying, this is what we're going to do. When the pilots go and do it, they say, may the Force be

Well, not everyone can use the Force, but it must.

Be active enough amongst rebel alliance circles for it to be a thing that they would refer to.

Well. And again there'll be Star Wars fans maybe listening, yelling and Yasney podcast at gmail dot com. There are moments in the Star Wars saga where Jedis are light on the ground, right, you know, gathers. There's not like there's not many of them, so they were in the Prequels's quite a lot of them.

Yeah, they get whittled down and.

They get riddled down. And so that's why Luke becomes such an important figure.

So that I get and I get he's probably the best at the Force.

And at the moment he doesn't know, he hasn't know any of this. He's training, you know. Obviously Ben ben Kenobi has told him, one has told him, you know, you have the force, and and.

He gets it, gets it quick by the way, he gets it.

Really quick and he really gets over Uncle Owen death pretty quickly. Not a single tear, not a single tier.

I think he just goes. He goes, Oh, I guess I better go to whatever it's called.

It's like there's not like he's not even doing out of revenge. Is I'm going to find the people.

Who did this? And it's like, no, something to do. I get to leave now, I don't do farming the harvest. Yeah, that is quite straight. It is kind of in a way. It's an emotionally stunk film.

Yes, it's just that's what I mean that the clunky dialogue. Sometimes they get out at weird points and there's not there's not, there's not. It doesn't. There are times where you can absolutely feel emotion during a Star Wars film and over the over all the films and and but I reckon a big part of that is the music, to.

Be honest, like it's an exquisite score.

Ah, so where do you? Where would you? And obviously start you're just coming to Star Wars. But I wonder when I think about John Williams, he's so good like is he is he as good as is he a Beethoven going to be that.

Good in the film world. I think he is. I mean, well, I see, if you talk to a musician, it's like, don't don't talk about beta. Like I had a conversation with musician recently who said, it's fine to study Beethoven and see what he did, but only for the sake of studying it. You can not use it because only Beethoven can do that. So when you get to that technical level, Diego Maradona, Yeah, yeah, it's that kind of thing. It's like, this is not for you.

This is you have to have the force and you're playing a flute, so.

Gonna not gonna do that. But he is incredible. So that whole era of film he was just scoring everything. It felt like to me, do Superman.

I think it did. Jaws is the other one where he did, like created music, and he did.

The Olympic stuff. And I remember that because when I was at high school and I was learning saxophone and I was in like symphonic bands and whatever, we played that and it was all the John Williams kind of thing. I don't know. I mean, obviously I don't know a lot about who's scored what and all that sort of stuff. But maybe that's actually a good test because if I know about it, then there must be a big deal.

I think it's not just you know, the theme that we you know, it's the Star Wars thing that we heard. It's like Darta Vader has his own theme and the theme that you here and tato wine. You know, it's just it's exquisite. And I think so much of this film came together. I mean they all thought it was

It like so, And they're probably right, aren't.

They it's it's pretty clunky dial. There's not a lot of great lines in Star Wars, and a lot of the lines that are great are actually kind of improvised. You know. There's the running joke that appears a lot. I've got a bad feeling about this, but it's not a necessarily great line. It just it just they say it quite often.

When yeah, it's a trope.

Yes, you know. The greatest line is one of the greatest lines is in Empire Strikes Back when princes Layer says too Hahn, I love you, and he says, I know. And that was improvised by so there, I.

Saw you, so you spoiled that. I thought that she was giving a calm the cold shoulder. I thought she was keen on Luke. What this?

What this? This is what I thought when I first watch Star Wars. And I can't tell you what's I don't want to tell you what's ahead of you. But it's like you look back at that conversation and it's deeply strange and weird, you know. And I'm not sure why George Lugals was point that was was pushing nudging Luke in that direction.

Well, maybe it's moral, Maybe he decided how is Luke I actually know Luke.

It's a good point.

I mean, we're not on Earth.

It doesn't really won't matter. I know that Laya well. Carrie Fisher was I think nineteen when they shot it in Harrison FORDUS thirty three, so forting year different. I think Mark was certainly closer to I think it might have been like twenty two or twenty three.

Yeah, right, But Luke doesn't have an age.

No, No, it's space.

It's a coming of age moment for him. He's that sort of age, whatever age that is on whatever planet is from.

Yeah, it's that. So Mark Hamill was that age. Luke has probably pitched it, probably being closer to eighteen nineteen.

Right, Okay, So just go about your explanation for the fact that despite the Rebel Alliance having the Force and the Empire not, and the Force being more powerful than the Deesta. So my question is, so why they hell not the rebels in charge because they've got access to this thing that's more powerful than anything empire has. Your explanation is there aren't many people who know to use it? Yes, don't you just need one?

Well, I think this film indicates that might be the case, but I think, as you like Jedis do get beaten occasionally, so it's not it's not all conquering.

Right, And I'm assuming from watching this film the Darth Fate is actually better at using the force than anybody else.

Yes, yes, at this stage.

Yes, that's how it feels to me.

Yes, at this stage.

There's Luke probably really is, but he hasn't fully expressed.

Yeah, and there is a character who I'm trying to remember if he's referred to, and I'm not sure he is. But the Emperor who you'll meet the Empire strikes back.

The other thing is where was Yoda? By the way, while we're talking about.

It, that's the next one.

Very disappointed.

That's the next one.

I was ready for. All the weird syntax.

Is there is there a movie that you don't have to have seen to know so much about it? Like you said, you come through this, we've already with so much.

A lot of it's formed.

Yeah, Like do you did you know what a storn triper looked like?

Yes?

You are two D two and three two backer, Yep, you do looks go on you a hat? You know? Yoda? Did you know what the Millennium Falcon gonna look like.

I wouldn't have put the name to the image. But I know both those things. The Death Star, Yeah, it's just like, do you know that? Said? I was still a little surprised when they blew up the Death Start. Yeah, right, And I still actually remember a moment. It was before I watched any of this. It came up at work, I think, where someone said, oh, it's like when they blow up the Death Start, and I went, they blew up the Death Start.

I don't know why.

I just kind of assume the Death Star was just a constant character throughout the whole thing.

I have quite a few Star Wars T shirts. I don't wear him as us anymore. My wife looks at me weirdly. I do because I'm a forty five year old man. But my favorite one was, well I got reason me recently. It's a storm tripper looking a bit sullen. He's got his head down. Yeah, and it's like I had friends on that Death Star.

That's great. Where was the storm Trooper? By the way, He's on another mission the measure.

The one of the funny lines that I thought I never really picked it up before was when the they're at Luke and the and obi Wan have found the jah Wars Sam crawl and has been sabotaged by the Stormtroopers, and obi Wan says, this isn't the trap. The jah Wars didn't do this. This must be the Stormtroopers because only Imperial Stormtroopers could be this precise. Now did you see that? Did you notice how shitty a name the Stormtroopers have as far as like shooting and like.

Yes, I wanted to ask you this. Why does no one ever.

Hit the only the only one that hits is the stun gun when the storm Tripper has a stun gun on late, I mean, Luke and the Rebels take out some Stormtroopers, and early on the storm Troopers take out some of the other rebels that the ones the extras, but jeez, they their crab. They shipped the bed a lot.

They do, which gives me back to my original question, how the hell is the Empire in charge? What does it have going for it?

Well, I'm watching this and I got to say that first scene where Darth vaight like this is what I got me hooked them in the Star Wars that first scene and we spoke about John Williams. The other one is Ben Bert who put the sound design together. It is incredible what he did. That scene where Darth Vader first appears and that breathing. Yeah, I actually I remember watching that as a kid and I just stopped breathing for a little while. Wow, it was chilling.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's a really brilliantly conceived character. Like everything about him, apart from his height, is right, Like you can't stop looking at him. Yeah, it's a bit like the Batman thing. There's something about just the esthetic. Black is a great color for that. Yeah, that's one of the other great things about Batman is he's black, but he's the hero and that shows it that sort of it points to the complexity of it, right that you want to see

They considered awesome wells, but they did they were Yeah, they thought his voice would be too recognizable, and they thought they didn't want him to be. It's funny that because you think James or James his voice whatever, James Jones's voices, like it's like King All Star Wars.

Yeah, that's true. I was surprised with how quickly he spoke, though, so.

Whenever before, I feel like they were they had to fit in with whatever that was there, with what David Prows had kind of given them, under the direction of George Lucas obviously.

Yeah, because I felt like there were Darth Vader always seems to have his answer ready to go, and he just says it and walks on. Yeah, that's his he drops the mic, that's what he does.

I feel like he walked up sometimes before he's finished. So James all James is like Jesus could have given me a little bit more time.

But do you know what it does? It gives you the sense that Darth Vader is incredibly smart, so he's never thinking he's already like as soon as he hears something, it's like the plans must be in this escape pods like oh geez, all right, yeah he's got to that quickly. But I guess I don't know if he's deliberate or not. But it's like, oh wow, Death's formidable, Like he's you know, yeah, he's in charge, he knows what he's doing.

He's got to ship together. Yeah, maybe he's going to get a promotion soon. He might maybe. So let's take it through the ben Bert influence on Star Wars. So it's how he came across some of the sounds that have become so iconic. So the Chewerbacker's voice, it's a combination of bear Line, Warris and Badger vocalizations. Wow, some of which I believe we're dying.

So vocalization. So there's an actual recording.

I think you get They got a Worris in the studio, just lay down a few tracks. Wris.

No, let's try again, just a bit more.

But I don't think that got sound designers, which I never really thought of growing up until you got to an age where it's like, oh no, this is what they actually do for a living. They go out like on location and film stuff with.

Their Yeah, so how do you do the lion?

Uh probably went to a zoo, I imagine, I hope. So he was actually the fifth sound designer. He was the one who got the line which when he got the job, his voice was made using loops on a syn synthesizer match with beeps and boops modeled after Baby Coops performed by Bert himself.

That's brilliant.

Yeah, that's really Look that noise is so good, Like there's a language going on there, Like you feel like you understand what ARTI's saying. Yeah all the time, Yeah you know.

But you know what's interesting. So this is where the chronology of it matters, right, I don't even think twice about that. So that's our two G two's noise. It's it's going to be pretty easy to you just dial that up on garage band or something. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, you forget, you've got to go back to seventy seven.

Well, it's a great thing about doing this podcast. It's come up a bit where you're going to go, oh, that's the tropes that we know of now get set at some point by iconic films.

In the past. So funny you say that because I feel like this is because I was talking to my daughter about this, because she watched Star Wars with her friends sometime and she just said it just felt really tropy and then she and then I was probably thought was maybe because when it did it, it wasn't a trope. Now I didn't see it as trophy. Although now that I think back and your point to some of the lines,

Have to go in with that in mind, Like there should be an announcement at the start of the film saying this was the first film to do this.

That's right.

Yeah, those tropes you think are hacky, Yeah, it all begins here.

There are no cliches in this film.

Yes, darve Vader's infamous breathing was recorded by putting a microphone inside a regulator on a scuba tank. Wow. The Tuscan raider Yow is a mixture of mule sounds and people imitating mule sounds, and another thing I know I'm reading obviously this because I printed this out so I

But I do like, I've got to go back and watch that now because now that I think about it, it did look a bit like that, and it's the kind of thing I can imagine seeing on the Goodies or something. It's cut together.

Yeah. Well, it's also the other things because the production was it was particularly not in not Tuscany, tis Tunisia. It was so hot and everyone's wearing these costumes and outfits. R two D two apparently wouldn't work properly, Like.

Does AR two D two work?

Yeah, like it's a real thing. It's a real thing.

Yeah, I didn't know.

Yeah, so's somebody I think, Uh, it's not Worrick Davis. I forget the Kenny Baker is in a person as a person. How big is he's big? Well, that's the other thing. Is bigger than you think, clearly bigger than I thought. Growing up, I thought and I used to get a figure ene who was quite small with the figure out is a decent size. And there are sometimes in Star Wars movies where it's like it too looks particularly big in.

The right that got the perspective.

Yeah, I think of him as.

Little like lost the size of a table.

Yeah he's he's probably you know, about another quarter up from that refriend or a table that you can't see me, you know knows, don't even table looks like Yeah, he's he can be bigger than.

You think with someone's inside and yeah, can you can you Baker?

The lightsaber Wosh was made by the blending of the by blending the harm of an idle thirty five mil film projector and passing a slightly broken microphone cable by the tubes of an old television set.

An elegant weapon.

But I'm all civilized there.

That is one of the most spectacularly obscure sound design things I've ever heard. How do you even think of doing that?

I don't know. I like it is it is. I guess you're just the one thing. Is it's one thing going out and recording animals?

Yes, yeah, no, but hearing, I don't know how you.

Hear, but I think but I think that's that's what makes a great sound design. It like they just hear things that they're always in the same way comedians always trying to think of jokes and trying to observe things. They are just listening to sounds the way that we did not take sound in.

It must be a great way to live. Actually, yeah, you have an awareness of your environment like that. It's yeah, it would be amazing.

And that's what I like. I you know, good, you know, like record producers would do. I imagine, you know, like whoever produces radio heads, you know, Tommy does it himself. Where he's going, Well, that sound, we can use that sound? Yeah, I know Billy. I think Billy Eilish Billy Alis did it with one of her songs with the traffic lights in Sydney. I think was that the traffic lights that became a song? So yeah, so I think ben Bert needs a favorit of credit.

So I have one question about the sound design. You know that scene where the stormtrooper bangs his head on look so good, Okay.

Which I missed every time until it was pointed that to me many years after.

Yeah, well so, well, obviously didn't miss it because I never really watched it, but unfortunately I knew it was there, so I was looking for it. And it's very funny. But is it deliberate?

I don't think so. No, it's certainly never been sold that it was deliberate.

So why did they keep it? Is this part? Is this from the same school as why is the dialogue crap?

Well, it could have been that that's what they had, you know, that's do it again. It could have been that they shot that, you know for a while, that sequence of maybe the stormtroopers were spaced out kind of exactly where they and they kind of thought like, well, what one is They could have missed it themselves. Yeah, just like it's not the same as it is now where.

It's becoming a thing.

Yeah, and shooting on film is experience. They might have just thought they had that and for the lengths time that they went in or they thought let's leave it in. It's certainly not deliberate that they that it happened. Whether it's delibered they let me take it.

Well, I think it must be because I remember this distinctly watching it. Just now you hear the clunk, so it's been put in the sound design.

If you hear the clunk, then it's it is deliberate, right.

But here is so the reason I asked that, And this is my only disappointment with having watched it the way I did, which was on the DVD you very generously lent me. Is the DVD you gave me? Is episode four a new hope it's not the nineteen seventy seven release of it, and the I don't know what's new and what because there's obviously new creatures that have been created, So I don't know if that bit of the sound design has been chucked.

In because it's become interesting actually.

So someone will know, yes, And I because I'm very I'm very much a traditionalist in everything I do. Like I still think footy should only be played in Victoria like a suburban grounds. That's I'm that a traditionalist. Part of me was like feeling that I was missing out on that that original version. What what was that original version?

Yes? Can you? Yeah? And I'm not a big fan of the new scenes. I remember seeing it in the in the city at midnight when they re released it, being very excited and and then really tired and underwhelmed. It might have been the last I think the first and only midnight screening have ever been too.

At least that's one you'd say a good night sleeper, make any sense.

The biggest s they put in is the Jaba scene. Ja.

So that was put in. I assume that Jabber was new, like to pick the image of him. Yeah, but I assume that scene was always that.

No, so what was no? So that scene? This wasn't there?

So it was the whole storyline of money.

The story was still there. So Guido is still talks about yes, and we can discussed whe the hands shot first, and it's always that's a big debate.

Ah, I didn't know the Guido shot at all.

Yeah, you see on the wall there's like a he kind of misses. I think it's Hans left. There's a no.

Question hand shot first. He was getting ready to shoot.

Yeah, he was ready to go. Well we great, it might have been doing the same thing, but we don't know.

You can't just read that into the text like.

That, Well he shot, so obviously he was getting you know.

He must have got ready.

He must have got ready.

O Jesus, you snooked me.

What did you think of that? As a kid? That was one of the scenes, you know, because that was reasonably you know, in the firstye you know, maybe a thirty five minute the canteena scene. It's pretty cool.

So it's a very famous scene. And part of me is left wondering why it's such a famous scene because to me it looks like a bar scene. And I get it's.

Almost like a there's a bit of a there are some Western elements to this, and it is one of the Western.

Yeah, and the fact that there's so much in the desert that makes it feel a bit that way too, So I get it full of cool creatures, and I get it's a pretty rowdy bar because a lot of people seem to die in it, and no one seems to care about that. But I like that scene, with anything that involved Han Solo, I was interested in. Yeah so your favorite character, No, i'be one you mentioned. I

He probably goes even though it's incremental shifts over the movie, the whole saga. He probably goes on the biggest internal emotional journey than any of the other characters.

Well, he should, because he's starting from the furthest points. My impression is, as far as he's concerned this whole Rebellion Empire thing, he could tackle.

The money he's got, there's no time for the force.

I want to know how he got into debt, what did he do with Java?

That is probably known off the top of my head. It's probably in the Star Wars canon. Somewhere right. It's yeah, Okay, the Solo movie and I want to say this, and I've said it, you know, publicly, and you've got this air of the Solo Movie is an absolute cracker. So I'm so disappointed it got. It didn't do as well

So you're obviously a very big hand Solo fan.

Yeah, I love growing up. Luke is always my favorite. The older I got I kind of like I saw because the first movie Hans, you know, the Cynic, and that didn't play as well too.

Yeah, I think that's what I rolled.

I'm like, you know, why.

Do you like him?

Oh?

Because he's the older I get like, I recognize his charisma and he's swave and he's funny.

And do you like Aunt Solo? Do you like Harrison Ford?

No?

I like harm because he goes on this He does go on this journey and I love the relationship with him and Chewy.

Do you think I should like him? Now I like having you only got this far.

I don't think you should dislike him, but I think he's got some growth that you will embrace.

He kind of already has. Yeah, he's got his medal.

He got his meddle. Well that Chewy missing out. Do you know what I'm saying?

Oh?

Yeah, I didn't even think of that. But you know what, can I say? This is a bad thing to confess when you were talking about Star Wars. I'm really bad at watching action sequences, but don't take them in. I sort of just wait for the dialogue. I don't know what it is. And this is true across TV, film whatever. Once they get into fighting scene, I just kind of vague out and I.

Sort of did add a bit to be honest, so I couldn't.

Actually tell you all the details of what happened in that.

Yeah, shooting, I get lost a bit. I have become more invested in more recently when they they've got they've gotten better, and I think they're actually better at giving you helping you navigate the clues of them.

Yeah, so you can imagine how well I did with Mad Max.

It's just a road train, yeah to hell.

Yeah, pretty much. But I just there's a bit that just switches off where I just go, just wake me up at the air. So I think I have a fight and they're gonna win. All right, I've got it. But then I miss so much. So I didn't even realize is it Han Solo helped out Luke until my wife pointed it out right because because there was a what I was like, why was Hannah hero? He killed the things that were chasing Luke? Ah?

Right?

That was me. Yeah, so I'm not great with action and stuff, which weird as a Batman fan.

Actually yeah, but when it's they were never my favorite that you know, the the the fights in the sky, the X Wings, they were never my favorite parts of Star Wars. It was always stuff on the ground that I preferred.

Oh that's interesting because I would have thought as a kid that is what's called.

No.

I don't which to the point where a lot of hardcore Star Wars fans they know all the pilot's names are that's too and I'm not taking that.

So is that the right way to follow Star Wars? I feel like it's well, it's doing too much to it.

Yeah, I feel I feel you can you could become so invested that that it becomes something else. For you, that's completely fine, I'm not there's no judgment. But for me, I just like it.

Feels like I need to turning it into something else. Though I feel like it's a pretty straightforward, simple, but then again, I'm the last person who gets a voice on that, so not trying to inject myself into it. But it just seems to me like this is just a pretty straight up of noun surface level film.

Yeah, and it's and you forgive it for a lot of things. Yeah, you know, like even there's the point where where they're on the the ship and the stauntrooper is guarding three PO and R two D two in that control room and I think the others are in the trash compactor Pats at that point, and three Piats goes to this, these droids have basically been you know, yeah, they've been looking for these droids.

Of all the trouble.

Yeah. So three Pats goes to the stormtrooper, I need to take R two down to maintenance, And the Stormtrooper says, okay.

Yeah, I know it was weird. What Yeah, I couldn't had one job, It's right, I couldn't understand that either. The only thing I could think about think of was there are a lot of Stormtroopers. Not all of them get the same memos. Maybe this one wasn't on shift. When that information was passed around, they just clocked on, it's just another droid. I don't know.

Well, even as I must say, as a kid, I kind of forgot, even though Hahn and Luke got into like a storm Triper outfit, you know, like for me, for me for quite a long time stormtroopers, I kind of looked at them his robots. I kind of forgot there were humans inside it, even though I'd seen obviously our heroes in that costume. I just I just kind of always assumed they were like robots.

That's right. And they even kill a couple to get the outfits, don't they. Yeah, so there's something in it, but we actually we don't know that they're humans. Yeah, it could actually be anything there. Yeah, we don't really know.

Yeah, I know now.

Oh sorry, I really should stop assuming that across anything more than just what's happened here. Can I ask you a question? If LOO thinking about this, I want your film acknoledge across this. I found some of the decisions like the directorial decisions about pacing odd yep. So there were moments where nothing much is happening, but they really just take their time showing this thing. And then there are other moments where it seems to me something incredibly

You don't need a rocky training montage. No, I mean these are these are trained as these people are concerned.

He's a farm boy. They he just walked in. He just says I can fly. It's not Days of Thunder where he just says, oh, yeah.

They need all the help they can get.

Yeah, sure, but like don't they train?

No?

Because really it's like like if you have to go to war. You know, like, I know you obviously you trained throughout, but we don't need to see them training. But if you like, if you're in danger, if Australia was being invaded, yeah, you know, we don't go Okay, we're being invaded. Let's let's push up, everyone push ups.

Sure, there's a problem here because they weren't being.

Invaded, right, the danger was, danger was looming.

They didn't know. They didn't know they were trying to take out the rebel base.

Well, older ant had already been destroyed. Yes, so they know they're blowing up planets, but their aim with this new massive.

Weapon, but their aim was to take down the Desk Star. And as far as I can tell, doing that now or in a day or in a week.

Well you're gonna do some crunches and it's gonna be okay for.

I don't know why, for you to push up some crunches, start jumps as well. But they're trying to okay, sure, but they're trying to do a very particular maneuver with no margin for error. I just would have thought there'd be some kind of specific training that you would do for that particular now, so they just.

Hate these guys.

The kid in a fighter and see what happens.

These guys are like, well, Luke does refer to himself that is because he wants to. He thinks he can fly the minium falcon. He's done some.

Yeah, but who does he tell that to some anonymous guy in the meeting and does he say something to happen?

That's it? Is that a detail of the film that we need that like do we need do we need a training sequence? Do you really think?

Well? I think so, but I'm prepared to say no, except that the next sequence is them all getting in their various fight things what do.

You call them? X wings?

The X wings, And it feels like they just spent about ten minutes with people buckling up. Every single person seems to get into an XT wing. There's no speed about it. There's no kind of like if it was top gun or something. I haven't even seen top gun there that's another one, but like I feel like they get in and then we go the thing would close over them and then we're off.

Yeah, No, none of that.

It's just like I just climb up, let's just shut that, okay.

It's like this scene is just taking somebody strugging with this seatbelt.

They never never get someone should have. That would have added a narrative dimension. Nothing else. It was just it just went on and on, and I'm like, hang on, how do.

You remember it going on with that line? I remember that the meeting and the meetings are a big Star Wars thing, like they have their meetings around you, you know, And and the holograms get more impressive as they go on. The computer set up, you hope, is pretty shoddy, which I liked, by the way.

I liked it. Yeah, it's like everyone was playing Space Invaders.

Yeah, so they're all there, like the Empire happens in Empire. Cliff Craven's there from Cheers yea, yeah, yeah, yeah he's in there. So yeah, that did. None of that has ever bothered me.

Well clearly has anyone else ever noted it?

Am?

I completely on my own?

Not not really. I think it's just like the calm, but you know, that's kind of slight calm before the storm. Sure, but I don't know, I don't remember it being that slow.

It Maybe it wasn't. I just noticed today as I was watching it, just before I came in here. Maybe it's because I was like, I've got to get this done. Actually don't. I don't want to get in here and not know who took out the death start. Maybe that was part of it, but I was just like, there's no information here, there's nothing anyway. I have to go back and watch it now.

It was interesting what you said earlier about you got the first time you watched it. You and I, that's that's the end? Is that you know? Because when George Lucas first delivered his final draft, it was actually, there's two hundred pages line. The average screenplay is between one hundred and hundred twenty pages, and it was two hundred pages, and they said, obviously it's too long, and so he basically only shot the first act. So this is why Star Wars became a trilogy.

So is it always a trilogy?

Well not when he wrote two hundred page script. But I'm just going to take the first act and that is going to be so the plan. Obviously it's changed that when they became different movies. But the plan would have been like they have Star Wars in post strikes back in and return to the Jedi in some form, probably as the one film.

That's interesting. So today yeah, is that what they would make? Like you if Star Wars has just thought of right now, would they make one film? No, you don't reckon it?

No, because we live in a franchise world.

I said no, but you could still franchise after that.

Yeah, but I think knowing because.

I'm just thinking about the speed of the film, the fact that it slow to me.

Yeah, and they might do Star Wars differently. You might get a bit more backstory on on Hahn and Layer potentially, but you know, Luke might shed a tear over Uncle Owen.

Kind of luck that he didn't Uncle. It's pretty gruesome. He comes home and it's skeletons and soften that.

No, every time I see Joel Legend and shiver because he plays Uncle Owen in the in the prequels, does he yes?

Oh god? So this is why Joel Leedgend is a much bigger deal than I understood.

Okay, I love his stuff, but I was like, oh right, he's a part of the Star Wars family. So yeah, I reckon that's so.

Have I done?

Okay? Like miss no One, I love that you really enjoyed it. That was that was really cool and I.

Get the world. Sorry, No, that's that's putting it to hog. I get why people are obsessed with the world. Yeah, and I think the key to it is the aesthetic. And by the way, I think one of the keys to the aesthetic is the juxtaposition between space and hypertechnology and all that stuff and just the desolate nature of the desert. You just seem to go from like their their total extremes.

Yes, and the more Star Wars goes along, you experienced new worlds like there's a you know, there's like an ice planet, an empire, there's one in the clouds where you meet Lendo Corisian and then you know Jedi. You got the end Or, which is like jungle, and then the Ewoks are Ah.

If Chebuca lives on end Or, you must have quit. This is a South Park reference. I don't understand that sentence, but now it's beginning to make sense, right. Do you remember this? It was a court proceeding and they got a lawyer who was based I think on the OJ lawyer who came on and he just made the jury's head explode by saying, this is Chebucca and he's a Wookie and if he lives, if it lives then you must have quit. And I was like, what, No, I'm

Something like that is not from end or and doesn't live on.

It, therefore you must have quit. If he does.

There you got it? No, I I do. I do love that you enjoyed it. Will you watch Empire Strikes Back? Yeah? Will you come back and talk to us about that?

Sure? They've been I got four years to get that done.

Well, I'm so if you if you're keen to watch it sooner rather than later, I can. I can fit you in later. Maybe it's a season finale.

Sure well, whatever your schedule is made, I will I will slot ride in. I feel like, actually I could be your guest every week on this. I don't think i've seen anything really well.

It's funny because I always imagined this podcast really and in the inturro means movie lovers, and Rachel Corbett was one who you know, is a great friend of both of ours who did say to me, listen, I don't necessarily watch a lot of films, and I was like, okay, well, well, but then I thought, even if you don't watch a lot of films. There's still movies that you like. Yeah, that's so everyone's a movie lover. Yeah, some people watch more of them.

Yeah yeah.

Yeah. This one more thing. When a long you know, a long, long time ago came up, did you have any kind of because I have an emotional reaction, obviously I might expect you to have an emotional reaction. I did, Yeah, you did. I did.

It was tainted a little bit for reasons I've already explained by the fact that it said episode four and new Hope at the start.

Which new Hope, by the way, was added later.

Originally the record, I assuming you hope was added recently, like when they did the four or five six bit.

Yeah, I'm not sure which year, if it was as recent as that, because I think that was twenty ten when they re released. I think I think it was earlier than that. They may have done a print of it without changing any other new shots or anything.

Yeah, right, But anyway, that annoyed me because I want the original, right. But yeah, it because it's so famous and it's so iconic. Also because through contemporary eyes it's so cheap, like it's just clearly just rolled in some kind of Rolodex thing and mirrors or some such. But it's so famous, and because it's at the start, and that music as well, which is so well known and

That's so cool, because I am sure I did a little bit of research trying to find it, to verify this fact, and I couldn't quite find it. I had a very quick look. But I'm sure I've heard the story that George Lucas showed the film an early cut.

This is the shortest way to do it.

Yeah. Yeah, So I'm not sure if he suggests the space crawl, as you know we call it, but oh, is that.

What it's called?

Yeah? Yeah.

I love the perspective in it too.

It's so good. It is an interesting way of how it's shot. I probably can't explain it. I haven't got my head around it enough to explain it right now, but look it up. How they shot that it's it's it's quite. The great thing is it's also it's before and that's why when they put the scenes in later on,

Of bb ah, right, So it's old school.

It's old school, but he's there.

You've gone analogue in the room.

Absolutely as much as they possibly can. They've done that, and I.

Think it's part of the charm of it.

Yeah. Well mean you see this fascinating behind the scenes, I'm sure. And the way they you know, the millennium falcons, like you know, the size of a football.

Yeah, you know, it's like what, Yeah, does that make sense?

Yeah?

Is the death start really small too? Because I'm thinking about when they're flying as valleys, I'm like, that's pretty extraordinary start.

Yeah. So it's almost got like you know, imagine like almost a lego world. Yeah, built with sty of fom or whatever it might be and the cameras is kind of like, you know, like this is pretty well fed. It's it's really for nineteen seventy seven.

And no green screen involved.

Uh, there's there would be green screen. So the pilots in there, Yeah, when they're in the Millennium Falcon particular, and you know they would be looking at nothing. There's one shot of looking the type not the type fight of the X Wing when he's it's fazzy and he's really joeling up and down and obviously obviously they've got the crews shaking the sides of their to get the moon,

Oh, you just reminded me. Yes, I was genuinely surprised at how much, how little of an event and how anticlimactic the moment that the bomb goes into the Death Star actually was it happens like that. It's just it's gone, Yeah, like I'm waiting for the hero moment where the ball you know, where there's a swish, you know what I mean like it's slow motion and the crowd cheers like I was waiting for that, that's the thing. Yeah, I can miss.

It, and I think they kind of do try to go for that, but I don't think it. I agree doesn't. Watching it last night for some reason, I realized that even more. Maybe I was watching it with more of a critical eye. But yeah, you don't get that kind of lead up of like, oh, here we go. No, No, it's like it's.

In fact, if anything, there's so much stuff hanging happening around it, like he doesn't want to die if I'm gonna get shot, and all this sort of stuff, He's got to get maneuver or whatever. That that's just part of the move. It's not even the main focus of that moment. It's so weird. And I remember seeing it and going is that what I think it is? Or is that something else? And I'm still waiting for the and then he was off because he'd succeeded, and I

I think also back in back back then, when you're shooting on film and I'm not sure how long like the dailies come, you know, like now you shoot and you watch what you shot that night after you'll go home and you watch what you got and if you need to reshoot more the next day, like I'm sure the idea and that's why you hear more about reshoots now than you used to, not the it didn't happen French for a Coppler while making Apocalypse Now, they didn't

So do you reckon? It's possible that was just not a mistake, but like that was circumstance. Possibly possibly, I mean, because it's the biggest thing in the whole film, like it, Yeah, it's the whole thing.

Yeah, I was like, I never noticed that. It's really weird that you pointed out. I've never noticed that really until last night, which is strange because I've said it so many times and it's it's it's obviously been fine with me.

But yeah, I think maybe because you saw it, you would only have been surprised that they blocked the desk star once, right, Yeah, exactly, and you would have been what how old were you eight?

Yeah?

Yeah, maybe that makes sense.

Yeah, well, I'm glad the Force is with you. You're a Jedi now. I hope haven't really, No, no, you haven't. I'm relieved. Like I said, it was, Star Wars is safe in my heart. One thing I'll suggest to you, and I think young Zada will really enjoy it, is The Mandalorian is a cracking series. It's like, you don't

That is all.

Thank you so much. Next week on the show, we're following up. It's getting very close to Christmas and we are going to have a Christmas movie, maybe the greatest Christmas movie of all time. It's a wonderful life. Oh my god, who better to discuss this? A wonderful life? But I don't know what I'm getting into. Broden Kelly from Auntie Donna. They've got a Netflix special, Arnie Donna's Big Old House of Fun. It is hilarious. Please go and watch it. Support these Aussie guy, I mean, they