Kid a, Peter Hell, are you here? Welcome to you. Ain't seen nothing yet. The movie podcast where our chat to a movie lover about a classic or beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now. Today's guests Stephen Gates or Gatesy from Tripod.
Ever Dance with the Devil on the vale Line. I'm walking here, I'm walking here. Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks in the mine. Haven't any right now, don't see nothing.
I had the absolute honor of being today's guest fairest Man at his wedding many moons ago. That's right, he had a best man and the fairest man, a best and fairest man. We became quite tired upon spending lots of time with each other on the road, specifically the Melbourne International Comedy Festival road Show way back in the year two thousand and We've been great mates ever since.
Gatesy has always made me laugh. A member of the extraordinarily funny and heaps talented musical comedy trio Tripod Gates, he has been responsible for one of my very few ventures into musical comedy with Bevan the musical which we recorded for Triple J with American rosso way back in nineteen ninety nine, a three minute musical that tracked the rise and fall and rise again of Bevan adamsall from
Young Talent Time. That year, it shot to number thirty five on Triple Jy's Hottest one hundred Durid beating out Silver Chair Take that. I think that's why they broke up. Gatesy is passionate about his art. He cares about the details of comedy. His execution is always thoughtful and considered. As a human being, Gatesy is kind, loyal, caring, honest and bloody hilarious. I'm stoked they have one of my best mates, Gatesy here with me today.
Hello, my name is Stephen Gates. Three of my favorite films, all starting with B being John Malkovich. Shut Up, you overraded, Big Chill, Carold.
Don't you have any other music like from this century?
There's no other music of My House and Big Trouble in Little China.
It's on the reflexes.
But up until last night, I've never seen Parasite.
It's gorgeous. South Korean visionary Bong June Hoes twenty nineteen social satire masterpiece is, in his words, a comedy without clowns, a tragedy without villains. We meet the Kim family, living in the submerged basement, half below ground, half above, scrambling for sunlight and Wi Fi. When opportunity knocks, they do more than open the door. They infiltrate the upper class
Park family. A film of two halves. Parasite is extraordinary on every level, IMO, A master class in every element, writing, directing, design, performance, use of motifs, boy they love that? And theme, comedic, violent, thrilling and vital. Can the rich and Paul live alongside each other in perfect harmony? Will the Parks take the Kims in and become total b ffs? Or will the stench of poverty be a bridge too far for the
affluent Parks. Parasite is the only international film to win both the Palm Dior and Best Picture Oscar and is a film they will have you asking who are the real parasites here? Gates you, do you have a multi level toilet at home?
No? But after watching the film, gonna get one installed?
I'm not sure. I wonder how how the sales in multi level toilets went after if somebody wasn't went no.
Yeah, apparently the designer on the set designer one would say yeah, because everything was actually created. Yeah, well that was in a studio. They weren't filmed on location. But this, this toilet was specifically designed. I mean, I was do do people in South Korea sit on toilets? You know, depending on your class of course, But no, that was that was actually designed.
Do you still like when you find that out? This film's a perfect example of it, going to go, oh wow, they went to all that trouble for a movie.
Yeah, no, no, no, no, Well that's the thing about this movie though, every shot they went to a lot of trouble, you know, even the simplest ones, and just to convey that story, to tell that story. I was amazing.
Was this an easy nomination for you and I? You know, because you you've read particular with your films.
Wait, we see a lot of films together were over the over the course of our lives.
And I think I've spoken about this some on of the podcast. One of my favorite movie going experiences recently was recently with you. It was by an accident. We saw Harold and Maud.
Yes, why aren't we going to see.
Was he something else like Us?
I think I was Us, which is a very good parallel with Parasi.
Absolutely it is.
But it was a hal Ashby festival or something on it the Nova Cinema. Yeah, shout out to Nova.
What a good one for that one. Yeah, we're getting a free Chuck top better.
Yeah, but no what Harold and Maud.
Harold and maudit So Geraldine Hickey discussed that and watch it for the first time for this podcast, and we just we just loved.
It, loved it. It was. It was one of those great surprises, wasn't it?
It really was? It really was.
There's a reason why these movies popular and they rise to the top, isn't it?
There is they call them classics.
For I think they call them classics.
I want to point it before we get into your three favorite films, and we'll come back to talk about Parasite. There's a lot to dive into. One of the things I love about your movie going approach is you have not watched trailers for a very long time. You refuse to watch trailers. I don't have the discipline I needed, I need and I love the art of a trailer. A good trailer, to be honest, and you probably watch it afterwards. You watch them afterwards.
I devour everything afterwards, reviews, trailers.
I don't read reviews before I go in. I know, leave that to maybe.
Quite often a bad review is you know, the synopsis is in built, and I want to go in. I want to I want to go into every story fresh, wide eyed, bushy tailed. I don't even read the back of books. I don't want to read books. I don't read books. I've never read. I'd like to read more anyway, but no, it gets yeah.
Yeah, okay, so no, no, you never tempted even when like a big like a Star Wars film, was that that what's been the toughest one where you've kind of gone, oh.
Yeah, that was the heart? So yeah, okay, we'll go into it. I don't watch trailers. I basically don't. I'm on just completely. What is it? Radio silence when it
comes to any discussion. That's why I think it's a it's a lonely way to live because you can't engage with your nerdy friends on you know, what possible scenario would be happening with the sequel or you know, no, it's just like I don't want I don't even want to be influenced by those kinds of conversations, because quite my friends have good ideas, you know, and what if? What if? Han solid is No, I don't want to,
but I will be at the cinema with you. Put pete and put the headphones on during the trailers and rock back and forth like a mad man.
You forgot about that you put your headphones.
I put my headphones in and rock back and forwards like a mad man.
I think I took a photo of you last time. Either put that in.
I'm sure I did, because I had my eyes closed and I was rocking back and forth.
That yeah, when I always see my friend's rocking back and forth.
Yeah, but no, I understand the trailer. The idea is to sell the movie. But quite often, if it's a bad movie or even something I have a passing interest in, they'll feature all the good bits in the trailer. They'll feature the entire story at times, all three acts you know, in the trailer. And that just really gets me down. I actually, when I go in to see a movie like this, just completely completely free of any sort of any sort of intention. I another star gets added to
this movie because you know, the surprises are there. You know, sometimes the credits come up on films like I remember Guardians of the Galaxy too. Kurt Russell is one of my favorite actors of all time. I didn't know that he was in it until the opening credits, and I was disappointed. This movie you're about to see features Kurt Russell. No, I wanted that little surprise you know, when he enters,
this goes on screen. That's what I want. I want those little rewards that filmmakers, I reckon spend a long time, you know, developing. When do interest introduce that character? You know, when do we do that? So yeah, I just want to see the film as is.
It is interesting when the marketing department take over, Yes, and I guess open credits that's a filmmaker choice. But in the marketing department, you know, I have last season of How to Stay Married to take a couple of times. So our marketing department you're giving the clips you're showing, is giving a little bit to We worked really hard, YEP to kind of you know, craft this season. And then when when to you know, let the audience in
on the twist and the turns you. You're just you're choosing a few things that are just undoing some of the work we did over you know, a.
Year commerce me so creativity.
Yeah. So I was always like, take the clips from the front of an episode, like you're safer, like you know one you run it by me, but take the clips from the start of an episode, you know, as a reasonably safe thing to do.
But one of my favorite things is to see a film with your good self. Yeah.
Yeah, we've seen If You're Scary Ones twos.
Or saw Together that was good. But we got to celebrate leew and El's rise to power in that one moment. It was such a great, a great day. It was.
It was and I mean many great days ahead of us. Your three favorite films, you have.
Three of my favorite films.
Well, I noticed you said that. I mean the brief is your three favorite films, So top three. You're on record, these are your top three films.
Yep, I will stand by them if a gun was held to my head.
I remember seeing a media screening a preview has this Do you remember often living up a week where you see two or three films that are films that you like, Go, oh, there were all timers. They're in the Hall of Fame. I remember seeing being John Malkovich at a previous screening, and two days later I saw American Beauty. Wow, that's gonna I think, well, that's okay, that's yeah. You know,
nineteen ninety nine was an extraordinary year for film. There's a great book called ninety ninety nine best movie year ever, really, and it's extraordinary. You had fight Club, you had the sixth Sense, Blair Witch Project came out that year.
What was in the war do you think at that time.
The fight Club was also run all around? Also, I think there's something about the book makes the case that the there was genuine tension. We laugh about it now, particularly as we deal with coronavirus. For the younger listeners. There was something called the Millennium Bargain and there was genuine and anxiety about that. And maybe even that coupled with the idea of heading into a new century reflection, you know that you can take stock where are we
as a people? And that kind of artistically that inspired a lot of people. Exactly it would have been Election was that year. I think Magnolia was that year.
Wow, Well that's it. So at the end of any decade. I guess it's quite exciting to think about what the decade remember, like in nineteen seventy nine or eighty nine, the next decade was exciting. Yeah, yeah, the potentiality, like and.
On the stroke of midnight, we all dressed differently, didn't we?
We all?
We all did so being John Malkovich extraordinary film, Spike Jones, China Kaufman.
Oh amazing it was. I walked out of the cinema after seeing that movie, and it was the first time and I think it's the only time I've ever said to myself, I just think I've I think I've seen my favorite film. I was just blown away by the creativity, I guess, and even the metadness of it. I didn't know much about John Malkovich, but I knew a lot by the end. But even though it's not about John Malkovich, it's not about it's just it's about a pupp and
tears journey. But no, I thought all of the elements that Spike Jones brought to that cinematically was just so exciting to me, and it just ticked all my boxes.
And the casting is so good. John Cusac is perfect in that role. Great casting of Cameron Diaz, who was you know, like unrecognizable, unrecognized, and I'm only seen as the hot model, you know, to play that hot the hot woman in movies. And she is so good, this brown, frizzy kind of perm that she has, and she's so she's so great. Catherine Keena. I remember, I think it's the first time I'd seen kath Keina. Just thought, wow,
exactly what I gotta say. Amazing performance. It was one of the one of the sexiest performances in a role that's not like necessarily overtly sexy.
Yes, yeah, well he's his relationship with her, or his relationship with everyone in that film is extraordinar as a distance to it, like he's he is a puppeteer, you can he spent all of his time staring at wooden blocks with faces. Yeah, but yeah, even throughout the film just littered with all these beautiful creative like the is it the fourteenth and a half floor or yeah, that's nothing's really explained or explained away with that. It's just what it is, and these people cope in this scenario.
Is it a metaphor? Of course it is, But.
It's funny you when you're in writers' rooms when sometimes we get bogged down, and I hate it, like when people say that character wouldn't do that, Why is that? It's like and I was watching some clips on the Parasite last night and reading up about Bond and Hoe and he just said in one of yours, I don't really know why that exists in my movie. I just want to make the audience curious. Yes, and there's something that was like it was almost like a moment for me.
This is literally last night, just going that's all it needs to be. Make your audience curious, keep.
It be interested in your ordering audience or interesting to your audience.
That's just that this character is a bit strange or this things. But you know, the need to explain everything.
But that's all that all works within the tone of And I think my favorite films are tonally kind of water tight. They're sort of bulletproof. There's nothing really exists outside it. Nothing. Oh you never say, you would never say a character wouldn't do that, you know, But but that's just the success of the storytelling, I think, because you know, in the wrong hands, those weird, those weird moments can really well.
And yeah, you need to build. You build your own world, you know, and when you're writing something and it has to be consistent, Like if that appears in an episode of Blue Heelers, you think, yeah, what's happened there? Yeah, the elevator is obviously it stuck totally, you know, But.
That must be so hard to actually convey what it tonally, even even though you must have a clear idea what you want, but to to tell whether cinematographer or the audio or you know, this is what we're going for. You know. It's like those stories of George Lucas doing Star Wars in seventy six or something, and no one on the set believed him. No one on the set understood what the hell, you.
Know, we wanted to do over time, because this is what's going on.
These puppets, and it's going a black outfit with a Northern accent. That's why Harrison forty is so good. He doesn't give a ship. He's perfect in it anyway. So it must be that's why into those films that really transcend I guess genre and become these classics. It's such a kudos to the filmmaker or you know, but it's the whole the whole team. It's just this magic combination.
I think we you know, I'm sure we both love genre films, but actually there's a there's a you know, a parallel I think with Being John Malkovich and Parasite, where they what genre is This is a mash. It's a mash of genre and and they have confidence. I was thinking when I was watching Parasite that so much of this it's hard to think of unless you've kind of like gone through the creative process of writing something. But it's all guesswork. Like we see Parasite now as
the Palm, the or Winder, the Oscoo. When we being John Malgo, which is revered. It's an indie darling and any think of course that exists always existed like that. But there are a whole bunch of brave choices and decisions that Spike Jones Charlie Kaufman made as a writer and Spike Jones made as a director. The actors made us, you know, in their performances that got to this. And you only get one version. You don't get you know, they don't release six different versions of a movie. This
is the one for people who don't like it. It's so weird. This is ye and you don't realize that it is guesswork.
But genie coming from genius. Can you imagine?
So the confidence, that's what and that's why it's been our genius is they backed themselves in.
That's it And is that what it is? Is that eighty percent of the job. Seriously, I do have I do have a clear idea what's going on, guys.
Yea and people around you who have faith in you. And I think that's why these a lot of these famed directors will they assemble their own teams and it's like these these people.
Know, now you've made me even more galvanized in my pre trailer or pre pre show idea of never seeing trailers because we've got a we've got a team that has nothing to do with the film trying to promote that film and tell that story or and it's the wrong one. It could be. I remember watching Hateful Eight Tarantino, and I had no idea what it was. I really
enjoyed it great. I watched the trailer, and the trailer sort of gave me the impression that it was this sort of heist movie or you know who done it? Even like the way the trailer was presented, And if I'd seen that and seen The Hateful Eight, I would have been disappointed because I'm going into a oh cabin in the middle of nowhere. Someone's done something wrong. We've got to get to the bottom of this. But no, like a Tarantino film, ends in gunfire and a right, everyone blows each other up.
You how's going to end? Yeah, okay, all right, The Big Chill Embarrassingly you've never seen it?
Really, yeah, don't be embarrassingly. It's on my list. This is when you're saying favorite movies, and especially movies because people take them so seriously, you kind of want to, you know, hit the marks with your choices. But I just sort of decided instead of, you know, great movies or excellently put together movies, I went with my favorites,
you know. And The Big Chill has a special place in my heart simply because there was something about the relationship between these grown ups in their mid thirties that really appealed to a sixteen year old kid. I loved the soundtrack, of course. I loved soul music and stuff
growing up. Still do, and the soundtrack is famous, of course, you know, every time there is a kitchen, every time there is a dinner party i'd go to and we're cleaning up, I do want to put on some soul music and dance around in the kitchen, you know, cleaning up. That's quite sad.
I haven't even seen the big Chill, and I know that that's a thing, and I reckon that's even when I think of dinner parties growing up, there was a big chill might have even been around, and maybe I've seen bits of it, you know, enough to inform that. But it's interesting what you say as a sixteen year old and you've seen these thirty year old I've always contended that teenagers don't always want to be watching teenagers on screen.
No I don't, Yeah, totally.
I think there's an aspirational element, you know, that worked for all of us. But I think that's why I think we we were, you know, in that scenes. We love Seinfeld. You know, we're watching thirty somethings in New York. Yeah. One, it's pissed funny, but also the sex in the city was an aspirational thing for you know, a lot of women in particular, you know, So I think there is that aspirational thing of like, I imagine if my life turned out and I had these friends in New York or.
Whoever it might be, and at that moment moment of a young child's life fourteen fifteen, where you know, you feel like you're almost ready, prematurely, you're ready to get out into the world and be a grown up, but
you can't. You've got three more years. So I'd find myself on a Friday night, putting the VHS tape in a big chill and just spending another two hour ninety minutes, two hours with these people that I kind of aspired to want to be when I grew up, Like they would have discussions around a table, talk and use words like rationalization and things like. You know, these are intelligent people. They all come together because a friend, a mutual friend, has died. So write it off the bat, you know,
the tone that's being set. It's quite sad, you see. It starts off at the funeral, and then they all go to the house that's around the corner and spend the weekend there. And what they do on that weekend, nothing really happens. It's just conversation. Someone said, it's a cat. Yeah. In a way, or someone said to me, big chill, it's a character study. What what so that means it doesn't have to have a plot. There is there are there are subplots all over the place. There is a
story there. But I think I was just attracted to that group of people, and there was a it's a whole collection of people. There's an actor, there's an out of work guy who now I think he's dealing drugs. There's a there's a family man. There's all these people, all the directions that could you could go as an when you've stepped into the larger world. They're they're all
represented with a great banging soundtrack. And there's also Kevin Klein in there and Glenn Close and heard Yeah, Tom Baron, Joe what what what happened to?
Just I always feel bad saying that, but like even recently we were saying what happened to Anthony Anthony McCarthy, and then all of a sudden weekly we put that in And then I heard him on Whilosophy. I haven't listened to the episode yet, but I saw him being promoted on Whilosophy. He's got in your book out, I think, right, So fans of Breakfast Club and class was class It wasn't It wasn't a breakast Cole. I think class was in class sat almost fire. Yeah, so yeah, check that out.
Big Trouble in Little China. Come on, mate, I thought this might be there. Come on, mate, Kurt Russell. It's just snake number one, Snake plis. So I haven't seen Big Trouble a little time. I think I've just seen it the once. Maybe I've seen it twice.
Well, listeners, before you know, some of you John carp and fans stopped, just stop screaming at the windscreen. We're not talking about Escape from New York. We're not talking about Snake Plisk, and it's talking about Jack Burton, Jack Burton, Sorry, talk about Jack Big Trouble in Little China. Maybe I have ul Well, what's fascinating about those two that that like? Kurt Russell my favorite actor of all time. I love
him so much. In Escape from New York the movie that was I guess nineteen eighty one eighty two, another John Carpenter joint. His character Snake Pisk was based on Clint Eastwood, like he would basically deliver all of his leans like this, and you want me to see the President. And then and he basically emulated Clint Eastwood, but with Big Trouble in Little China, he emulated John Wayne. So
it's all about this now. If I'm not back in eight hours, kylled the President, you know, like and it was I love how clearly he just he just ripped Clint Eastwood off, and he just ripped John Wayne off.
Who was he doing in Tango and Cash?
I think he was doing Sylvester Still, Kurt, I thank Kurt. You know what I've never seen Tango and Cash. There's one. There's one I've never seen. Is that a pile of shamer? That is?
Yeah? I mean I liked Tango Cash to watch it when it was I remember the big laugh I got in Tango and Cash was when Sebestis alone said Rambo was a pussy.
Yeah right, okay that was a bit matter and yeah yeah, but oh we love that. We love when films reference other films. But know there's something about Sylvester Stallone. No, not really, but Big Trouble in Little China. Here we go. It's nineteen eighty six and I'm there see it with
my friend George Rondez. Guy, I still catch up with okay, George, miss you mate, but we were so blown away of the about by the tone and again you're you're a kid, you're sixteen, and all you've got or you've been watching, really is this movie after movie of sort of alpha male chest beating, gun toading champions who's come in and gunned down literally hundreds of people to save the daughter, you know, and all of that lot of machismo and stuff. It never really appealed to me as a boy, but
I got it, like, you know, my friends had. Look his legs come off, you know, well that's cool. But here comes this hero in Big Trouble in Little Train of Jack Burton, who was very bad at his job. He just didn't every every part of that movie, every appeal to to succeed or it's just thwarted. He doesn't like it's in the movie where it's the big finale and it's the big scene. It's one of my favorite moments in cinema. Everyone's going, ah, cut to another guy,
they're ready to fight. Cut to Jack Burton. Ah, holds the gun aloft over his head, shoots the ceiling, the ceiling falls on his head, and then he's knocked out for the whole fight. He's just lying there and he's the hero. It's you know, and what you do a lot.
Let's take in the Indiana Jones almost joke too far, that whole thing of the swords and not samuraized, but you know, we've got the swords in there, and he takes out the gun and shoots, and that's like, that's even a step up then and in Temple he was sick, that's what they did. So and then in Temple he goes and gets the gun. No, you don't get the whip, and then the whip's not there, so he gets the gun or yeah, there's one way he goes and he gets the gun, but his gun's not there. So I
forget what he does. I think countries him. I think does he is you're talking about Doom Temple Doom, Yeah, because he's like a little call back and Doom. Yeah, Raiders, but sorry, no, that's all right, and I don't know that one.
Okay, let's let's just move on to him was my favorite growing up until so was my exactly that, and.
It changed back to Raiders at the Lost Act. I think when I realized what a perfect Raiders actually is.
You realized that twelve what a good screenplay was.
It was like in my late twenties. I think I'd seen both films. Again I thought, I think Raiders is better than them.
It's like Jedi. Return of the Jedi was my favorite because more stuff happened, I guess. But you know, when you hit adulthood, you realize I've got to stop thinking about Star Wars and think about.
Every week. Yeah, moment, I'm going to stop. Jedi is my favorite. It survives another.
Week, just stop it. But Big Trouble, I think also the comedy action. I love an action I love I love comedy, right, I don't think. And again that's why Parasite. I guess it's funny, you know, And but I it again. It's like it's like being John Melkovich, just being constantly surprised with every frame of the decisions that the filmmakers make. With Big Trouble, I didn't know what movie I was watching the whole time. Is this a comedy? Is this?
And doesn't matter? It doesn't matter because the idea of driving into Little China or Chinatown here in Melbourne and having this underworld underneath it, this you know, just sparked my imagination. Worlds within a world. I love that stuff.
Yeah, it's super cool.
But with with with Kurt Russell's performance, that's just flawless.
If you ever see Phil Lloyd had to say marriage Phil Lloyd, he nominated The Big Tubbing Little China is one of his three favorite films. Really well, so it's it's it's not the first time it's come up, right, So we'll move on. No, no, no, I like it. When there's been a little bit of overlap. We'll take a quick break and then we'll come back and talk about Bong June host two thousand and night, Oscar winning Palm the or winning Parasite. All right, I need to know. Okay,
we're fluffed around enough. Did you love Parasite? Did you hate it? Did you think it was okay? What do you think?
I I've I've watched it a couple a couple of times. Yeah, I started. I sat down to watch it last night, and there was something about the heat in the room, the Korean language reading. I fell asleep, Pete, I fell asleep.
And Korean, the Korean language.
It was a combination. It was a combination, Pete, I can't definitively blame one thing. So so I went home late at last night and watched it again. What I was amazed by. I had no preconceived ideas going in. I remember Parasite. There was a film that my sister saw, or she came back. My sister's three years older than me, in like nineteen eighty two or something. She told me
she'd just seen this horror movie called Parasite. So the words parasite and horror movie, you've always like, she's going, oh and then and then then his head exploded, blah, and like I'm just looking up at my sister going, oh, that sounds awful. She used to love going to see horror movies. In fact, we went went to the drive in once to see Spider Man Strikes Back and Poltergeist. Like, how do those? That is that double How is that
double feature? Ever? Spider Man Strikes Spider Man Strikes a made for television movie that we got a cinema release here in Australia. Hello, yeah, I know, big time, big time. We didn't have televisions, I guess back but no, just sitting there watching Spider Man Strikes Back and then after that the credits roll come on, mom, let's go home. I no, no, you fall asleep in the back. We'll watch Poltergeist. Let's not do that, mum.
So you say, was you don't watch trailers, but you've got this parasite reference.
Get this parasite reference.
So what do you know.
I'm thinking he's done, the host, he's done. I'm thinking this is going to be a monster movie.
Yeah, yeah, I saw this is a similar I took my when it came out in the cinemas. I took my oldest son Liam. The rest of the family were camping. We had to be in town for work and and Liam this wanted to behind. So I we said, let's go out. There's a new foreign language film. I hear it's pretty good. I don't know much about it, but I want you to look at the way different cinema, world cinema. It differentiates itself from American cinema and English cinema,
like yes, English speaking cinema like that. You just noticed there'll be different choices they make. And and funnily enough, I said to him, I said, what's the first shot? Just before I said what's the first shot? I said, like everything's particularly with this filmmaker. Everything's done for a reason. So the first shot will tell you something, yes, one, Yeah, very good. I thought, like, I'm actually watched the first shot, and I did watch the first shot. I thought like,
this is about class. Yes, So usually I have a bit more loading into my knowledge of what's going in because I do what's trailers, you know. But this was a lovely experience because I didn't know, and I, like you, I expected there might have been a monster element to this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and there is. I mean it's quite it's quite clear. I mean, the conversation, what is who is the parasite? What's going on? You know, it's not really it's very clear what the parent I mean, it's a it's a modern capitalist fable, isn't it. Really?
That's what that's They're all parasites.
Well, the situation, the situation they live in is the parasite that that sucks their life force really from them. But yeah, that that first that first shot where the camera actually tilts down or floats down from from the street level to below the ground. It's like, yeah, and just to see that the boy with his phone, that verticality, that that was just a theme that goes all the
way through it. I was very jealous when you said, Pete, come to the Come we'll do a podcast favorite films, And there was a list of films that I hadn't seen, or I'd seen a lot. I hadn't seen Citizen Kane, and I really wanted to talk about that because I've just seen it, and what I was sad. I felt sad when I watched Citizen Kane because it was a
flawless I loved it so many, so many reasons. But there's so much language being delivered through visual storytelling or through the camera movements, through just composition, having a whole scene just play out within that frame, the trust and confidence he had in his performance or performers sorry to do that. I felt there was a real parallel between, you know, Citizen Kane and Parasite.
Well there, you watch Citizen Kane, you will notice you see the influence.
You see the influence.
You see the influence in Finch films, in Kubrick films totally.
But the sadness comes from why isn't this used more? Why aren't we Why aren't the confidence.
Earlier? Imagine being like now you have monitors, you are watching all this through. Yeah, you can watch it. You've got playback, so you can watch what you got back with awesome Wells in nineteen, you know, fifty two whatever it was.
He's doing that and doesn't know, doesn't know, doesn't know what exactly what he got exactly exactly. But now now everything you're saying, everything's sort of going going through these viewers and they do surveys and all that sort of stuff.
No, I'm saying on set, yes, Bong June Hoe is the order is a different. Some love that that they got video village, you know, where it's all set up the video and you get your chair and usually it's a separate room. Some directors love being right next to the camera. Yes, yes, yes, I don't get that, I must say. And he's a famous direct with Quentin Tarantinos, who just loves being right next to it. So they want to be with the actors.
Yea.
The small amount of acting either, I find I would find that a little distracting. I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it sort of depends again on the tone of this.
And I do wonder if they have that conversation, you know, if he says that, Emma, do you mind if I'm going to be you know this, this is good for you, this is this is how I'm doing it.
Yeah.
But yeah, so that is amazing to me that Awson Wells was the confidence of making those choices, backing that.
In and such simple ideas, just like location of the actor within the frame, you know, and in Citizen Kane it's really overt. You know, the oppressive powers that that that sort of envelop him is is really present and clear just on the composition alone. And similarly to Parasite, I was struck by, I mean that the polar difference between the Kim family, the downtrodden poor family, and the that the park the park. Ye, it couldn't be more different.
You have one living underground, you have one living above ground.
Totally, but the scale of the geography, you can sense it as a person, they're having to having to crawl upstairs in order to reach the parks and vice versa. And you know, it comes to a head in the start of the second half the flood. But I was everyone's walking up and downstairs in and there's you can see the relationships between all these strangers just by the way, just by the blocking, just by the way the way the actors are moving.
Well, I mean there's there's two big motifs in this is I think stair stairways are huge and this is long. June Hoe is not the first person to do stairways, but it's done so well here. So every time you see a character walking up the stairs, that's like the socially climbing the social ladder. If you're like and every and and it fits like when I'm going to try to get the n as good as when Ki wu the sun. Yes, you know, he first goes to the house and he's walking up the stairs to the tutor.
That's him. He's climbing the social that's it. And then towards the end, and then at other times we see them going down like that's so that's sequence, and I don't want to get to the end too quickly, but that's sequence. When they're leaving the house during the flood and they keep going descending him the hell and the way the color changes during this storm, isn't it? And it is just artistry at its highest.
What's the yeah, apparently the the door bell, it's it's when sort of when you say you said it in the instruction to films. It really is Toolok, look, hell you still for funny.
Almost happens at the exact halfway point of the actual risk script, page seventy one of the one and two page. It's it's it's phenomenal and that and it is the movie becomes something else. And that sequence, just that sequence of when they go camping to the way, it all everything's revealed and and it's so seamless.
But talking about stairs again, even when the when the doorbell hits and it's the previous, previous cleaner, previous helper. Yeah, yeah, your memory is.
Amazing if you haven't written in front of me.
But yeah, the door that descent into it's all one shot again. You know, you feel very safe in the basement until that that door is revealed and then you go, you descend again down. And it's such a simple, simple idea, but it's done so effectively because we understand it straight away.
Well, let's go back to the start. We don't have to walk through every We're not going to walk through every scene, but I think it's worth mentioning the start and talking through the start a little bit, like, how did you what were your impressions of the family. In those verse opening scenes, we see them that they're and what were you taking out of it? They're folding pizza boxes for a job. They're they're scrambling to get Wi Fi. They're going but you know, but they're close. They're close.
They're not even geographically, they're close, like they're they're bunched within certain frames. And again it's like a four shot, and he just lets that play out. The confidence in his performance and the confidence in his ideas is is amazing. And that's what you're just seeing confidence the whole time. And with a lesser director, they'd get coverage, you know, make sure they've got there here, and you know, no, just let that scene play out and it will be echoed later on.
And often spoken to his podcasts about feeling like early in a movie that you are in safe hands and it can happen so much of an opening shot. I may watchcashit in the Sundance kid watching it, and I watch it for the first time for this podcast Bob Murphy, and I'm the first shot that's thinking, I'm in good hands here. I feel this. I love this movie already, Yeah, exactly, And and b is in this film and I think most of his films does that as well. Just you
are like, you may not love. You may not absolutely love where a movie goes. You may not you may love snow Pierce. You may not love it as much. You know, but but you know the director is giving you exactly what he wants.
To give you. Snowpeers is another fable, you know, like in that he loves obviously.
Class is a massive looking it's.
Yeah, and it's massive thing for everyone right now, you know, post pandemic, but post as in since it's like, I think the life for me has gone pre pandemic and post pandemic. That's I'm not saying it's over. That's that's the line in the sand now.
But I think you're right. What I got from those early scenes was this is a family who love each other.
Yeah.
Yeah, they're fun, they have it. They have their own sense of humor. They're not afraid of work. You know, they're they're enterprising. There's an entrepreneurial kind of a streak about them. They're smart.
There was their middle class. Apparently around that time they even mentioned it a couple of times that they had a number of experiments before the story begins. One is a fried chicken place, there is a cupcake joint and just say very flippantly, it's like that, you know, And apparently in that in this time, I watched a YouTube video.
I think I watched the same one, but I'm really glad I did because I think it's a really fascinating detail, because that could be a detail that he kind of gets lost all you think, that's the funny, funny thing that this guy has lost his you know, lost his livelihood because his cake shot went.
Well, that's it. Well, even that tiny detail is it just brings credibility to those characters that even if you don't you don't need to know the backstory of that.
It's just explain what you know. Well, it's what we know because we watch a YouTube.
There was, you know, a huge financial crisis that hit that hit South Korea especially, and it forced a lot of people who had jobs, whether with the government or otherwise, to be forced into trying to make a living for themselves and their family.
And there was a chicken stores. It was the first got a wave that went.
Through a trend to fight fried chicken stores. Apparently it was easy to get a loan for a business to start a business hard to keep that business going. And another one was when fried chicken.
The Taiwanese cakes desserts became massively popular, so you know, and a.
Lot of families did that. A lot of families went into that and they were they were fads, they were you know, and now they find themselves putting together putting together pizza boxes. You know, it's a real real thing. And it really hit me. We're talking about pandemic. You know, how many families and how many people have gone through the same thing because their their industries just evaporated or
you know, and suddenly they're having to scrounge around. But still there is a warmth and a generosity and a love there with the with that family, even even though they're up to nefarious things.
Oh and I think we'll get to that in a sect. But the also the window as much as it's a submerged kind of apartment, so you do have apparently that have any It gives you like, is almost like there's a sense of hope for this family. They're not completely like that. They still then that considered themselves at the bottom of the ladder. They've got some you know. And I love when the past control. Guys is doing the spray and they said close the windows, and the dad says, no,
leave it open. You know we'll get free. Yeah, free.
Yeah, At no point did they winge? At no point are they going we deserve better. We know they are. They are coping and they are coping as best they can. They're doing it well.
We have the friend who's the university. We don't really get told why how they know each other, Which is kind of interesting because the idea that Bong June ho he introduces the jobs he introduces for the king family to infiltrate the Park family. A tutor or tutor your tutors, a driver, and a housemaid. He came up with those jobs because he thought they were really the only ways he could think of where a member of one spectrum of society could meet another. Yes, at the high level
of society, but they're the only way. It's it's quite sad, actually the only way they would ever interact.
Yeah, and it starts from least practical. This tutor who's teaching you know, the sun because he's showing some artistic flair. You know that is so bourgeois, you know that is Oh yes, we'll get I can't, I can't possibly engage with my child on that level. I'll get someone else to do it. I'll pay someone else to do it. And yeah, there's a coldness to that. You know, it's
the obviously antithesis of the Kim family. But even that, Yeah you said windows, Like at the start of that opening opening frame, you know there's isn't it underwear being hung? And the foreground beyond that is the window that they can see out that offers some light during the day, tilts down to the sun. But in the in the parks house, that's that window just represents and see seeing seeing what's beyond that window represents so much.
Instead of the ratio is the same as a TV AILM a movie what a nerd. So when they're on their luxurious couch looking out, it's like they are watching TV. They're watching, They're watching They're now on the inside and there, Yeah, there is it real?
You know, it is what they're feeling real? Or are they watching a movie of their own life? Like? Yeah, that I love I loved all of I love the windows.
Windows.
How good with the windows?
Windows are steps and the lines that the idea of like not crossing the line that he says, I liked, you know, I like the house because she doesn't cross
the line. And there's even there's literally when we see the very first time, we see the mother out in the back and she's almost asleep, you know, slumped over the outdoor furniture, and we have a kiwu who's looking from the inside out and there is in the corner of the window there's literally a line that goes and the housekeeper actually like claps awake her up, and she crosses that. Lie.
Yeah, it's almost like panels of a comic book, you know, And yeah, yeah, the carriages are crossing beyond them.
So the university friend like, so I reckon bong June home maybe kind of like decides, I don't know how to explain the connection with this family, but we're just going to leave it in the ferriage. I'm so glad he didn't absolutely exactly these and these it's confidence going, you don't need you don't need to know that. So he brings this stone, scholars stone, which apparently is a
very real thing in South Korea. It's and it's more the older generations will look for these stones and they are supposed to represent the search for wisdom or wealthy prosperity. And again we're expecting this to kind of have this a massive payoff at some point, to mean something. It really doesn't. You know, it's a weapon, Yeah, exactly, this thing of hope becomes a weapon.
We imbue that object with hope because we told what it means and what it is. And even when you know the sun takes it down, you go, I was thinking, is he using that because it's something heavy like, or is he going to use this? What's going on?
Like at that point he really believes in it, that doesn't it almost it almost feels like I think he says it needs me, and it almost feels like it's following him. And he says when he first gets it, it's metaphorical. Like he loves saying it's metaphorical. He's always saying it's metaphorical. DA's always saying something about the plan.
And when he says it's metaphors, and he says it a few times, it made me laughed because I was trying to think what was supposed to take out of that, and I think possibly this is the reason I was making me laugh. I think it could have been long June Hoe having some fun kind of pointing out like obviously, like the movie is called Parasite, there's metaphors everywhere. Yeah, and the one thing where the character says this is a metaphor, is it actually like, is it actually was
the stone a metaphor? It's not the one thing that wasn't a metaphor.
The one thing that wasn't it's literally a rocket used to smash over someone's head. Yeah, and even but that's to me, I'm just there we go. If we're going to maybe stipulate some kind of meaning behind that being bashed on the head with this rock that symbolizes hope, that's just saying that this Kim family are never going to get They're never going to get higher, They're never going to accede. You know, this is being bashed on their head with the prosperity symbol. Yeah, it's pretty.
Clear, right saying something. Yeah that he's saying something I did love. When he gets the forged, his sister Eke Young forges the thing for him, which apparently in the actual Korean version of the film it's Sole University. They change it in the translation to Oxford University because they didn't think he gave it a prestige for Western audiences, but the forgery and then when he gets it, he's really quite proud and he said, he says to his dad,
once I'm done here, I'm going to finish university. I just printed the document early. And his dad's like, oh, you have a plan, and so impressed, so impressed.
Great job.
Yeah, And I think his dad just loves the idea of having a plan. And I'm not sure he's thinking if he knows what the plan is at that stage, because I think it feels to me that the plan gets made on the run as far as you know, he sees an opportunity.
Yeah, but also, the system did nothing for them, you know. The it's why would he have any respect in a system, whether it be bureaucratic or otherwise that had that was not there for the for his family. So I completely understand that, you know, I understand the criminal mind. That's what you're saying, is what I'm saying.
Well, you've been around, you've a lot of crime.
Hey hey, hey, never being proven. But yeah, I do. I do love that healthy disrespect for authority, you know, in in this family because it sort of gives them the what I loved about this film too, which was so strange and maybe we're going to touch on it, but there's sort of no protagonist or antagonist in this film.
I said in the intro, And I find it really interesting that Bong June has said it's comedy without clans and it's a villain it's a tragedy with that villains.
Like tragedy with that villains really and it really really like.
You don't they're all like they're all parasites. We don't know, like there's no the Park family could easily be like so much. They could be meaner, well that's it. They could be They could be the more of a stereotypical wealthy family that you hate and you just want this family to stick it.
Up, and then the film would not be as fun, No, it would not let.
The mum is hilarious in this is so I think the performs Kim, the Parks, the Park. I didn't know they're all they're all hilarious, But some of reactions made me love the most. The biggest laugh I had was actually when they come home after and they're planting the blood in the bin and the look on Key Tech's face of Dad when he pulls out the blood chili sauce and the look on his face is so funny. It's like, oh, you won't believe this.
Yeah, how did that? How did they? Yeah? How did they convey so much with doing nothing with their face? I think there's again confidence in timing between cuts and between those edits. It's, you know, it leading to that finale moment where he smells, picks up the keys, smells it's off and that just sends the dad into this.
I mean, the whole smell thing is is maybe the biggest the leads to or what happens. It's like the stench you cannot get the stench of poverty off you, And that's what you what you're saying before or like being whacked over the head by this prosperity stone isn't enough, Like you know that that's the exclamation point maybe, but it's really about Key Tach kind of realizing that he will never get this stench off him no matter they
a spy. They talk about living in this house if they're in laws, we will will live in this house. And then and they're on the county during whiskey, they're fantasizing that they're they're looking at that window. They're brought
into the fantasy. But then all of a sudden, the you know, minutes later, they're under under the table again, almost like underground on this on this multi leveled coffee table again levels and and you have them dry humping on the couch and they're still talking about you know, the smell and the subway smell and yeah, and it's it's heartbreaking fantasizing, fantasizing poverty, about poverty and that. And that's a big thing about this family, Like everything's just
play for them. The appropriation of the American Indian is a play full thing to them. The idea like one of the big things which I would not have known if it wasn't you know, if I didn't read about it, was this is to becoming on climate change, how it affects, how it affects the you know, the top of society compared to the bottom of society, or the sewerage or the sewerage goes down, it's sewage only goes down, it
doesn't go up. So when when you have a key on the door, you know, like smoking, which for a scene which has shit you burst is one of the most beautifully shot scenes. Vesals are amazing. But that's that sewerage has come from, if not the Park family, but those like them, it's come from the wealthy totally. The idea that climate change for people like the Kim family is catastrophic. It affects, it floods their house. Where for them, it interrupts a little camping trip they have plan, They
come home, they have some noodles. Yeah, they get on with it. The next day they are planning a party and inviting friends around it at the shops there. You know, they're making fun of it.
Oh well, meanwhile, the night before, Kim's have been covered in ship. Yes, just literally. Social dynamics do not affect the parks And I mean that's the big That is the big point. Isn't it that that the wealthy can afford to ignore their effects on society because they can afford it. And meanwhile, the people who can't, that's that's who bear the brunt of all these decisions.
Let's talk about the way they were able to rid the Kim family of the of the workers within the Park family. So yeah, yeah, obviously he was brought in. Obviously he was brought in as the tutors say he had that job. I thought, I thought key young as the art therapy was so broad, I thought she was so great.
I might have slept through that bit. So so she comes in and the first act is a little bit sketchy.
Go on. The King Jong comes is brought in because he sees the artwork on the walls and he thinks it's a it's a I think it's a chimpanzee. That the mother says it's actually a self portrait. And then he just like in the moment, he just bluffs his way through and this. You know, I've got somebody who works in art therapy. Do you want I can you know? She went to the University in Illinois in America because there's a big thing in Korea where education in America
is everything. Even that tent when they mentioned the tent it was made in America, has got no holes in it.
But is that having a jab at China like with the tent, that tent, is it going to leak? Well it was made in the States, Yeah, well it's possibly. Yeah, the idea that everything coming from the States is fancier.
Yeah and slightly class Yeah, if I was making it better while when you get a child, because exactly. But yeah, So she comes in and and she's just she's great. She kind of like talks about this, this is something in the corner of the of the painting, blanked on exactly what it is. It's a particular thing, and she recognizes it as being something that has deep, you know, meaning in the psychological space. So she sells the idea
that she could ugly therapy. It's going to be very expensive, and the mother is like very much like, oh well, I'll be honest, and she's almost she refers as something that happened, like she's guessing all this did something happened to him, and she's like later on that it's the it's it's what he thinks is a ghost. Yeah, it's actually not the ghost.
Which is great. Yeah, it was an amazing scene. But how resourceful these the Kim family is because of that, they've had to they've had to make they've had to learn things to survive. Whereas the parks are very furnished and they're in their reality, they would not they would not be able to know where to start. You know, we're so disengaged and.
Because and I want to go outside of their social circle in the way, so they're only taking recommendations for those. Even the housekeeper is a recommendation from the previous homeowners. And and then and then you have the planning of the underwear in the car, which again you could poke holes in a lot of this kind of saying well, how as a plan, Yeah, you're really that, But again it's the world building. Yeah, and we believe, we believe it.
We believe in it because we've not been shown, we've not been It's it's so fascinating because yes, he litters the screenplay and the screen with with these little hints or little themes, but it's never never hit They don't hit you over the head with it. So is this important? Is this? Is this a plot point? Is that No, some of them just don't. I think that's just wonderful.
One of the great things about this film, I think is you can watch it just as a bit of as a thriller and watch it and be so entertained by it. But there is so much stuff going on, and I think that that's what qualifies to me is genius. Yeah, and makes it a masterpiece, I think, Yeah, I think, And it's not.
What is it in pulp fiction. You've got that the box. You know, that's a lot of people, you know, the suitcase, briefcase. What does it represent? It doesn't really need to represent anything. It's just an interesting But to get away with that, you know, is the genius part. You could introduce any kind of red herring into your script or any sort of plot that goes nowhere what that can be.
I think we're satisfying him absolutely. I think the track people might fall into if they want to go in their own writing, they want to go down that path. Is the trick is everything can't mean nothing, you know, like you can tease and you can have some things that maybe even as the filmmaker, I'm not exactly sure what that that that is, Yeah, but for me it's interesting. It's you know, it picks the interests of the audience.
But if you're if you make it all about nothing, that's when And quite clearly this is a film that is about so much. And the way get Out I think spoke to a lot if you if you wanted to really get into the themes that get Out and spoke a lot about the African American experience. This says a lot about you know what's happening in South Korea. What's been happening, you know, but it's still but universal.
Yeah, well because of capitalism, yeah, because of that. Yeah, it's a capitalist fable.
And the dad comes in because he's a limo driver. And I love that, you know, printing up the card and no that he gives the card at the care but the dad comes in. I really I love the dad. I think he's worth pointing out. His name's at Kung Ho Song and he he's been in a lot of Bong Juno's films. He was in the host in Memories of Murder, which is a film. I went back and took my aid and my my second oldest son, sixteen year old. I took him to see a screening of that.
They made it in two thousand and one. I bet a serial killer in South Korea. If you get a chance to see it, it's extraordinary.
I will.
And but he's yeah, he's been. He's in Snow Piercer. In fact, his name in snow Pierce is the same name as the architect is a little easter egg. Really yeah, Nam going yeah, yeah right, yeah, Ge you're happy with that word too.
The name looking straight out right in the arm. Yeah, that was I love it. He's no, but he's amazing what he could do with just just his face in those in those moments and where how just to say that instead of a character responds with dialogue, just with nothing, responding to nothing. You know, I've been working on this
video game musical thing. It's like a choose your own adventure, and you know, there's three sort of choices that character can make given a point in the story, to go, to do to react one of three ways, and one of three ways is to do nothing. And that is a really interesting scenario a places it deflects the responsibility back on the character who is inciting the incident, and you have to but to do And he's good. What I'm saying is he's good at doing nothing, and he's
great at just staring. And each time he does that, he decides to do nothing because he's quite you know, proactive most of the time. But yeah, those moments are so beautiful, the stillness, you know, and of course that the moment where he sniffs the keys or you know, and sends him to he does something. Then of course, yes, well.
The party, the Kim family have agency throughout this they are they are going for it. They are making they are making things happen, which kind of makes you like them because they are at doing something. They're doing something, but they're in a ship situation and they literally don't. You don't begrudge them because it's really interesting and one of the things I think the themes of the movie
is how people even in the same class system. So if they're middle class, lower class, they turn they turn on each other. When down in the basement, the housemaid says, you know that begs for help, and she's like no, and she almost she kind of chunk hook kind of the mum. She she almost denies that they're in We're not in the same situation.
That's it.
Yeah, well where where you know, we've got a window at our house.
Yeah you know we're not. Yeah, yeah, it's that, it really is. But and that's I mean, one of the sad points is, yes, the downtrodden do not. You know, they turn on each other simply because of survival, simply because they can't. You know, it happens time and time again. Families, you know, they vote a certain way because they're protecting their family, you know, they and and it's all about
conserving that family rather than thinking beyond that. They can't afford to think beyond that, you know, I think even contemplating issues like climate change is so bourgeois. You know. It's like, I've got to take care of my family right now, and I don't know how to do that. So, yeah, I understand. I understand the plight.
Oh this family. Absolutely, So then let's talk about it when it does. We've rered all a bit, but let's talk about when it does. This movie does flip and it becomes about the twist of what's downstairs. First of all, I want some of the physical stuff that goes on in this film, like it's it's I love because it's some of it's quite violent. But there's the falls. So we have the mum come down the stairs to find the housemateman trying to push She's like, she's just basically
trying to push the cabinet case. She her feet on the wall. Yeah, it's suspended, and then she falls when eventually gets she falls straight down. Some of those stunts and then the push down the stairs later on in the film where she gets.
Its like a wagon wheel almost she wagon wheels her way down the stairs and then.
The sound of the head, back of the head hitting the wall. It's quite sickening. But there's some great stunts in this. But what when when they were heading down the stairs and I like that took me when handheld almost like we became we were like with the the King family as they kind of went down those stairs. What were you at that stage? What we what were you thinking was going to be down there? The monster?
Yeah, totally, yeah, totally, of course, yeah, the parasite even but because you know, the the original maid, Housemaid whatever at the door, Just who is this insane cackling person? Who is this? Like the misdirection there, it's you know, the the real intruder, you know, the real infiltrator, Yeah, or the original one, you know who?
Not what to think? But the king yeah, the King family of infiltrated. But yeah, so they are the parasites. But is a king queen parasign yeah yeah, ancient evil yeah, but yeah out parasited.
Yeah. But even the beautiful misdirection of the music, I think even escalates as they descend the stairs and you know there's a number of stairs, and the tension that builds just in that twenty seconds is palpable, and to only to turn the corner to the left to reveal just this older man on a bed. You know, it was great simply because it was just not what I was expecting. Sort of more memorable that way than just because it was so innocuous. Really it was.
There was there was some great foreshadowing, even with the husband in the in the in the car when he says that the maid's great, like we love her, she doesn't cross the line. The only thing she does sometimes she's eat a lot. She sometimes needs enough for two, which is this is a great because at the time. Great foreshadowing is when you don't your ears don't prick up in the moment, And yeah, I think about that.
That was just like a often but how often do you do that? There is for obvious foreshadowing and it just kind of distracts you for the rest of the film, exactly waiting for it to come.
And that's where I think. Sometimes it's when you're I've been in a situation where I've written TV shows where there's a twist, yes, and it's hard to know, it's hard to take yourself out of your own head and kind of go on, is this is this too obvious? Like the very first we did with myself and Lisa mchuene, which we did spin off of How To They Married, the whole twist at the end was like it was
that we were actually married couple. You think you're watching two people on a date for the first time, and then and then you realize later on when I take her home that they're actually married, and you just thing, you just don't know. We're like, which do they know that? Two?
Which balls to keep in the air? Which?
So again it's that it's that guesswork. So when you're writing lies and you're doing with the foreshadowing, like you really I imagine kind of worrying. Is this you just imagine in your own head the audience going, oh, there's somebody in the base.
What a challenge though, I'm trying to imagine. So this episode, you're at on a date with Lisa McCune. You your characters know they're married, but you're having a discussion or just and all. It's revealed at the end that you're heading into the same house and you were married. That is a extraordinary writing exercise, Pete. It's very ambitious. Yeah, what what what what what? What conversations do they embrace? What conversations do they avoid? You know all of this.
The concept was that they were having like a playful night out and they Lisa's character one of the almost almost like so what do you do? You know, like, so they're having this kind of sexy night out where and they you know, she's role playing and Greg's kind of not really you know, he's not really into it because he's got some stuff going on at work. He's tired. So you just think you're on a date where the guy is not that and but she's kind of excited,
you know. So it's Yeah, it was a really fun episode, right, but there were it was one of those ones we had to be disciplined about, sure, what are we giving away?
And can ask a question do you miss those writing those smaller stories rather than.
I love both, I do love the anthology. Yeah, you know, such a good idea. You co wrote that.
I was fortunate, Yes you were, and.
You were in an episode with Ronnie Chang and then win to Heney I played. It was one line that were you opening a CD store or a record store?
No, I'm buying CD stores like they're going out of fashion.
So you're buying basically all the sanities, buying them up. You're buying the stores they're going out of fashion.
He thinks he's on a real winner. He thinks he's.
Pretty happy with yourself.
I love that people who don't know they're on a sinking ship. Yeah, and you co wrote that episode with me, Yes, yes, and and another one later on. So the twist is the twist to that, Lisa McEwen. One is that it went to series. Is that.
Yes, that was horror because it was years five years.
That's a long elongated twist.
And also the Yeah, the foreshadowing we went to a goes. It's some lovely foreshadowing here. I do love the idea of the playing with the technology of the sending, almost using the scent button that when she films them when it's revealed, because they all the family fall outs, she quickly puts together the idea that, oh, hang on, you guys are not four separate employees. You guys are in
on this and this explains why I've been booted. And she films they're all kind of wailing on the ground and the tables, and then she kind of uses the send button almost like a nuclear yea, that's.
What it says, doesn't he says, It's like it's like the nuclear codes or something.
Yeah.
Yeah. But even even it's an interesting thing though too, because right at the beginning of the film, we have a family that is trying to find Wi Fi. You know, they're trying to get connected, yes, because they live underground.
Do you want to get a feature revolutions?
Yeah, exactly, just just the connection and here is like in the parks house, the house made about to send send like that could just dat in an instant, Yeah, total connection.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's good ad for Wi Fi modems, great out for I get your WiFi, murder your just in case this situation arises.
It all plays out that the flood is incredible and so that that was the moment, and that was all built on water, like the sets were building, like the huge water tanks really allowed them to kind of basically flood flood the joint. Yeah, I didn't know that.
You could say it was so impressive. But even sometimes filmmakers could go down the road of you know, you can smell, you can smell that you're almost dry wretching in your mouth because the delivery of the of the information is so good. This this flood, though, it was beautiful as well as terrifying. I just found that amazing.
Even when the daughter's sitting on the toilet finding this this cigarette packet, and then it cuts to the wide shot and she's literally sitting on a toilet blocking ship that's being spurted up.
That's come from the affluent.
Yeah, on the on the on the on the what's it called the never toilet? The toilet that never existed, but.
Just for the multilevel toilet.
Yeah, I know, what a what a what a But I found that incredible that that a filmmaker could make something so horrific and so horrifying, but it wasn't there was a distance. You weren't in the middle of it, do you know what I mean? He could have gone for that.
It could have also he could have gone for this flood, which is where their lives are in danger. And I really liked that he didn't that this is about This is not their lives unendangered, their livelihoods.
A house that they currently live in is in danger.
Yes, absolutely, so they're going to live through this and they're going to have to rebuild.
Yeah, totally and get through this like you would.
Have been in a way you might have them lives in dangers almost like just just get away with it, let it go.
And when when the it sort of cuts to the mother and she's in the limo being driven by the king father and she's talking about how beautiful the rain was, and you know, for me, that was a foreshadowing. That was you know, if if Bong had just dropped her boun you know, like, Okay, we're going where we're in, We're we're starting the wheels. Someone's going to die, aren't they.
So there was a part of me that felt at that point in time we were starting to get a bit broader stroked with these I mean, the story had to go somewhere, so I understand that, but I was starting to have my doubts about or have things confirmed in terms of where the story's going.
Yeah, that great conversation. I think the mums when she talked about I would be nice, I would be nice too, how nice park family? I would be nice to if I had money, which is a really fascinating concept. And I think she got money is an I and it's it's moves out everything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, or the assumption that if you're wealthy or rich, that you'd be nasty or you'd have to be nasty to get there. But most of the more horrifying part of the film is that the Parks family aren't nasty people. They're problematic. Yeah, they're just rich people. Yeah, So do we feel sorry for these people because they're so cold and alienated with each other as opposed to the Kim fam. He was so warm and engaging, and.
He does a nice job of us escalating towards the back of the film, of making us more aware of what the problems are here and the attitudes of the Park family towards to begin with, it's more about their own employees and the problems that have a risen, whether it be that there's tuberculosis in the house now or that there's the limo drivers having sex with people in the backseat of our car, Which is that's scrushing the line, you.
Know, But got some questions for you, Pete.
And then later on, later on, I see where I could take the joke about your own car, and anyway, enough, let's sit with the movie. So yeah, and then later on,
like once the flood happens, you really long. June Hoe does a great job of like you really see the Park family and how far away and how removed from any you know, the society they are, and they deliberately remove themselves, and that they live in their own bubble when they're organized in a party, whilst we see a whole whole community has been displaced, yesually you know, at a stadium for you know, being refugees all of a sudden, you know so and then and then the party happens
and it's it's extraordinary, and it's.
That the horror again element for me is that the Parks they don't see what they do, how they live, and how they live affects and this is what we're dutched on twenty minutes ago. But that is horrific. That's the horror that this family are unaware of the damage that they do or their contributional lack they're off to society does to to the Kims, which.
As a thought piece you kind of go, well, that's more powerful, isn't it? From us? As a if you're watching this thoughtfully, then you probably recon you know a lot of people who you know would be in this situation. We'll go, well, well, that's kind of me as well. That's like I'm sure you know, even myself literally talking about me. I yeah, there's probably stuff that I do that we thought thoughtlessly affects people down down the chain.
And even though the choice of house or the design of that house, it is a kind of house that for some reason we all aspire to live in, you know, in nature, a floor to ceiling windows that we can we all like, how many grand designs have we watched where this same freaking house has been made by these wealthy freaking anyway, But if that's what we aspire to, this sort of fully glass three sixty view where it's quite cold and it's sanitized and everyone's distance, but we
still if I had a bunch of money, Pete, I'd go out get screw society. Yeah this is my this is my I would go out into the bush and build one of those houses and live happily out there. That's sort of that is separating myself, you know that I own a.
House like this.
I love.
I own a house, you know, like you know, not not exact the same as this, but like you know, like large property. And it was very so so proud everything I ever wanted and and and we love that house. But there was you know, and there's there's reasons why, you know, as far as distance from we're traveling and all that. But you know, there can be what we what we've loved about where we are now we've moved closer into the city. But it's a much smaller house.
Yes, could be.
This was almost you know, friends would call it the compound. But there's we I love having the kids a little bit closer to me, you know, like we're in a house. It's just it's a sensible house. Yeah, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles. But we love where we are so much more because it's ony. It's more manageable. Yes, that's one thing. You have seen this in this the park, well the park flamy wouldn't be well, I guess they do. They are hiring people to take care of.
Everything because they cannot manage.
Yes, yes so, But what we've learnt really is is yes, you and we tell friends is when they're considering, you know, buying new house, and we say, begav like we dream of the big house, a grand design house, what you said, But it's not it doesn't deliver anything real.
You're always you're cut to the family in Grand Designs and you know Dad's reading a book in that seat that was specifically bought for that little area so he could read a book.
And great, think about books. I know you're you're getting you want to get into reading. The great thing about books you can read them anywhere, anywhere. Reading You don't even need to stop nobody.
And you know what, you don't need a battery. You don't need to charge them up.
You don't need a bat You open them up. So unless you are in a vacuum sealed bag, you can read a book.
And the books they take you places, don't they. You know, So if you're sitting on that beautiful chair in that nice nook and your Grand Designs home, screw you, by the way if you no. But but it is interesting you. We've had friends. I've had friends that that's the end of my story. I've had I've had a friend who did went really got really, went really well in his career, bought a house in the middle of you know, nowhere,
up in near byron and stuff. And the moment he moved in, realized, oh, I've just removed myself from the whole world.
Yeah, now, well that was a part of it. Why, you know, we wanted to be around more people in a way. We wanted the boys to be closer to their friends. We were isolated were it was five acres against properties. There were also five acres.
So yeah, that's right.
I don't remember it was, you know. But let let's talk about before we wrap up, Let's talk about the like the final moments of the film. What did you So? We have obviously the stabbing and the weird way it's almost a knife that brings all these three groups together, in all three families, but we have Kep Tech takes off and we learned that he's he's gone into the into the bunker. What I thought was stunning what he did.
Think, well, just on a story level, there was part of me like things that escalate into violence don't don't appeal to me. You know. It's like we're talking about tarantine. No, you know, I love I love, I love him so much, love his stuff. But you know, for to always end in violence, I got dang it. But through the through the lens of seeing watching Parent as a fable where death has to has to occur, and but and but because the build up was so beautifully measured and you know,
all question marks were happening all over the shop. Once the you know when when he when he ascends the original the original helper sends from the thing with a knife and just walks out to the to the to the to the backyard. He's not really noticed. Again, like
a bloody man with is not noticed. And sure we're in the middle of this sort of cowboys and Indian situation, but that again the horror for me, and why this should be a horror film is because literally you as a viewer, are horrified by what eventuates, because the pressure is it escalates so much, the bubble has to burst. He walks straight out into the into the garden and stabs the doord. Initially I went ah, but then as everything was, you know, in that, I wanted it to
be different than bloodshed. I wanted something. Sometimes Bong doesn't really hit the mark for me. No, I'm beginning, No, it's he's any way to end it.
But also it was equally shocking, you know, the idea that you know, the bloke had been downstairs all this time stabbed the daughter. That was very shocking. And then and then it's almost equally shocking a surprising that key Tech then stabs Dongik. And what I love about it, which is, you know, like the the reasons is the
way he did it. He did it because he saw in this not being able to tolerate the smell of poverty when he's trying to get literally the keys to his car, and just a reminder that key TeX's daughter's been stabbed and he's dying. Dong's Dongy his son has fainted. Yeah, that's like that, and he he's trying to get the key from the from the body of the blog he has just been stabbed and then can't stand smell. And
that's what sets totally sets him off. And I think that's what separates from many other films where it's just and it works because we've seen it all all the lead up and he takes his opportunity and he kills him. I think he kills him. He dies.
Yeah, Well, it's not verbalized with everything in this film, it's just it's shown and yeah, just something so seemingly innocuous and smelling his hands and because.
Also these family like mister Park, I think so, mister Kim thinks that he's they're friends. There's there's a there's a respect level. And even the guy on the ground comes up and he says respects and he doesn't know like he's looking at he has no idea who this guy is, mister park, I don't know who you are like that.
And so but the kid did the kid who fainted, Yes, you know the idea that you know, the kid's seen this guy before.
And there for shotowing the boy scouts, you know, you know that there's a boy scout and I think kim Wu was a boy scout so they can read the moss code is brilliant.
And the American Indian thing was an interesting choice. And that's where a foreigner, you know, I don't think an American could make this film, or that the the plight of the Native American and the story of the Native American and how it's been commodified as just an outfit. But while while the two dads are talking and you know, we want to make this good, we have to you know, just how insensitive they are.
They are play it's all playful. Its decoration. Yeah yeah, and even the way they set you.
Think they could go this is cultural appropriation. Guys like what, No, No, they wouldn't. They wouldn't. It's just an out.
Even the way they set up the the seeding for the party is based on a battle plan of about massacre. It's it's but again, the thought that has gone into this is extraordinary and that the final So I want to get your thought on the very final moment. So kim Wu realizes his dad's making contact with him through the Morse code light, which is also great. That the dad who's in the house earlier just thinks that that doesn't even like he's makes somebody to fix it. But
he thinks it's a motion sensor. He thinks, every time he steps up, it turns on. Okay, fine, every time something has been done, even when the mum is fixing the chair in the backyard. The dad's almost got his back turned. Everything a bit of maintenance that goes on in that house he had nothing nothing to do with. So the moscow goes out. He realizes, he writes a letter which he narrates what did you And and for a moment you think because he says, all you need to do is walk up the stairs.
And the shot that again, the simplicity of you know in that moment go, holy hell, he got away with it. He did, he got it.
I was so there when I saw it.
I was so camera is on a tripod at the corner. It shoots that the place that we all know, which is the stairwell to the downstairs area, and the camera just pans to the left and reveals the door. It's so beautiful, how literally a corner has been made. I'll turned a corner. Sorry, But then it cuts back to the end, where which is the sun again, back where we started.
So in case you were under any illusion, it's like, does not get it?
Stuffed me up? It really did, because I loved I was going, this is beautiful, and I was buying into the fable. I was buying into the yeah, we can have the happy ending. But again, Bong was so very good at foreshadowing that they will never get there. And of course I did that thing what you do after seeing a movie and have a look at what other people have aught about reviews and things, and that ending was discussed a lot. And there was a song in the credits apparently.
Yeah who, sung by the actor who plays Kiwu, and one of the lines in it is or at least explores the idea that to buy that house, he would have to work in Korea, South Korea for five hundred and sixty four years.
To get the money to buy that So there is no in this structure, this capitalist structure. Doesn't mean you don't need to live in South Korea to know this, but yeah, the future for younger generations is so much harder to actually accomplish what the Parks accomplished, you know, just generationally speaking. And yeah, that the director said, my children aren't are probably never going to be able to
own a house, you know, that's pretty amazing. Yeah, not off the bat of their own bad anyway, it's extraordinary.
Some fun facts before one more thing. I was one of the mentioned we mentioned about the space and the design, but also the way food is looked at in this So you see you see that eating like bread, this out of the out of the getting out of the pack, you know when he's at home. And then the way this food is just like laid out, the way fruit is laid out. Yes, at the Park Fame.
When they start by, they're literally folding pizza cartons. Yeah, yeah, the the the transport option for a pizza for food itself. They don't even get the food.
Yea, and then oh man, it's extraordinary, it's extraordinary. So speaking of food though, the the that that dish that she makes when they're they're eight minutes away from arriving home and they asked for some ram doong. It's a made up dish, so that is basically it's a working
class kind of meals lower class's. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but they it's why the wife adds a sur lime because she can't even even though it's just it's for the sun, who will probably you know, even if you're living in that house, but you probably eat anything you feel like your two minute noodles, and and she can't quite have that, so she gets in there the sur line in the fridge, which but they came up with that, They kind of came up with that name because the
translation didn't quite work. And so ram dong, if you go into a Korean South Korean restaurant in order ram dong, it's probably not on the.
On the right.
Yeah, don't do it people, it's a it's a combination of udon and and rahman, you got bonded, you got bonded, and most of my fun facts have come out through the conversation, which is always like whenever that happens, This one final fact just on Bong June Hoe. I think it's a good one to end on. And this involves more Snow Pierce. But this is the kind of I think character he is. I think I'm really fascinated by him.
When he was making snow Pierce up there was a scene where he there's a fish that's scattered, and it was made for Mirramax, and Harvey Weinstein had already taken like twenty five minutes out of the film, and he wanted that taken out of the film. It's almost like it's weird kind of battle ritual before they go to battle, the fish that gets scuttered. And bon Jingo really wanted it, and so he said to him, no, I need this in there. It's a tribute to my father. He was
a fisherman and it's personal. I want this in And Harvey Weinstein, you know, said okay, well, all right, I guess it can stay later on Bond And I said, that's bullshit. My dad's not a fisherman. Yeah, I just yeah, I lied. Yeah, So good good on you over getting one over Harvey Weinstein.
Yeah, Harvey Weinstein. But it's a trick, though, isn't it. When you're negotiating creativity with people, you often work out ways of Okay, if I know that they're going to have a problem with this, but I really want to keep this, So you almost reverse engineer your approach because you know that they'll want to cut something. As long as they cut that bit. That doesn't mean you know what I mean what the little games you have to play in order to get certain things across the line.
You do have to choose your battles as well. Sometimes, and mate, thank you so much for this comes with homework, this podcast, and you did your homework. I appreciate watching the first quarter of your essay. May have been a little bit scared. Oh look, you know, yeah there's a ten minute period, but I had to fee you in on. But thank you, mate, thank you so much. You're a wonderful human being. I love you. We are going to go have lunch now and maybe get into our silk pajamas.
Look out, I love it.
Well, Well, we'll order an on what's it called random?
Yes, and we'll order it knowingly like we know we know it's a made up dish.
Have we just watched a move so long with yours so loan please thanks mate.
Thanks for having me mate.
Hope you enjoyed that I did. Parasite has been one of my favorite films of recent years, and Gates is one of my favorite people. I've known him for the like over twenty years now and he's a great mate, always always sort his hot takes on cinema. We love hearing from you. We also would love you to rate the podcast. We recommend five stars on your iTunes page wherever you get your podcasts. Just rate us and leave
comments on it. That helps the algorithms, I'm told, and it just helps spread the love and the word of the show. So thank you for doing that. And you can also email us Yasney podcast at gmail dot com. We are reading all of them that are coming through. There's one that caught my attention from Heidi Schwegler. Good a Heidi. Derek Meyers from Cosmeo Studios dot com. How are you you good?
Yeah?
Great, super You're going to read it. You read this one out mate, I've been talking for the last hour. Can when you do something come on? You push buttons over there?
All right? Heidi says, Hi Peter, as a passionate movie lover, I stumbled across your podcast last year, right after the start of the extended four month Melbourne Lockdown.
Nice.
Generally speaking, I'm not a person who listens to.
Podcasts, what.
Come on, Heidi, But I thought I would give yours a go, especially because I was looking for things to do in lockdown.
Yes, with the ability to leave.
The house for two hours of exercise, I chose to listen to your podcast, and I found it passed the time fabulously. Ah, Peter, I love, love, love your podcast.
Ah, thank you so much, Heidian. Like people listening from all over the world, and I am certainly happy that we have been able to provide. We started this in lockdown last year. I'm happy it has given people a chance and the reason perhaps to go back and watch classic films. So I'm glad it's giving you some joy. So thank you, Haidy, and thank you everyone. Already also doesn't bullet points, She actually breaks it down what she loves about the podcast. She likes the winny banter between
myself and the guests. She loves also the top three movies of each of our guests, I've really love that. Like I come here to do the podcast and I can't wait to find out what my guests think of the movie we've chosen. But I'm also equally cannot wait to find out what their three favorite films are. And I've said this on the podcast before. I don't ask beforehand, so I get to react in real time. Sometimes I've seen the film, sometimes I haven't, But yeah, I love
hearing that. And she loves Hardy loves our keen and sometime's quirky insights into the movies chosen, pointing out minus scenes or characters they had an impact on the movie, exploring the meaning behind people's scenes, and delving into the backstories of the actors, directors, or other people who bring these movies to life. She did find that Matt presidn't get Out of episode a bit hard to listen to it because Matt didn't love get Out, and there's been
some reactions to that episode. I love Matt, you know he is, Yeah, Matt is a critic at heart, like where he started, you know, food criticism. You know, he's a great guy. I love Matt. You know we disagreed on get Out, but this is a democracy. Hardy goes on to say it's made her watch rewatch many movies and others she has not seen. And no, she says, I haven't seen the Princess Bride yet. Yes we will.
There is somebody and I don't want to say in case of changes, but there's somebody who is much loved in this country who has said they haven't seen their Princess Bride. So I just want to confirm that they're going to do it before I bring you that name. But it does get nominated quite a bit. Heidi goes on, Thanks for bringing your passion for movies to life with this podcast and keeping up and please keep up the amazing work. We will you call yourself a loyal listener
and a passionate fan. Thank you, Heidi, thank you so much. Your three faite films you're telling me are The Accused, The Hangover, and Sure Shank Redemption. I'm sure we'll get to all those films at some point very soon. It is great. This is a direct these little community we're building. The emails of Flooding in Yasney Podcasts at gmail dot com.
That's fantastic.
Love it, love it, and you know we are there's some noises being made about a live show soon enough, so it'd be great that we can all get together and hang out and chat movies. So thank you. Next week on the show, I'm so excited. A genuine legend of the Australian entertainment and comedy scene, she hosted the Big Gig from the late eighties into the early nineties, The One, the Only Wendy Harmer will be joining me.
I'm so excited to talk about the nineteen eighty four classic The Karate Kid, saying Ralph Maccio, I cannot wait. I watched her so many times as a kid on VHS and I cannot wait to watch it again and relive it with the One, the Only, the gold standard Wendy Harmer. Until then, Derek, bye for now, Bye by yeah, And so we leave old Pete safe and soult and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night.