Get a Peter Helly here.
Welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet the movie podcast, where our chat to a movie lover about a classic or beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now.
Today's guest actor writer Rob Carlton, all below.
I want to.
Stay here with you, little job.
My late snake shocked, my.
Frail would be having a written nothing.
Rob Carlton is one of those oussie actors like you're Steve Curry, like your Damon Herriman, who has just been around forever.
He started very very young.
I think his first role was in nineteen seventy seven in a series called Young Ramsey. I'm not sure that the neighbors related. I must say, I'll confess never saw it. He's been in a country practice e Street, police, rescue, home and away. There's so many water rauts, all saints like, there's not a show he hasn't done Blue Heelers, a Cloud's Daughters. And then he came to my attention when he made a series called Shandon Pictures.
It was so funny.
He was the creator of it, he directed it, he was a producer.
It was so good.
He's been like the Hollow Man, which was awesome. He won a g LOGI or his portrayal of carry packer in Paper Giants. I think that's probably when he really burst into a lot of people's households. But he is just an incredible performer. I've always loved watching him. You can see him now in that flicks's Boy Swallows Universe. He's just so good in everything he does, whether it's comedic or dramatic. His ability to process something and then
articulate it in real time is incredible. He is smart, he's funny, he's passionate, and I'm bloody stoked to be hanging with him today.
Hi there, my name's Rob Carlton, and my three favorite films are The Sting.
Oh, poor Jacks, you owe me sixteen grand taw must have left my wart in my room. Don't hand me into That's crap. When you come to a game like this, you bring your money. How do I know you won't take a powder?
No?
No, no, no.
I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll send a boy around your room five minutes. You better have the money. It's going to be all around Chicago that you're.
Welshed with nail and I.
I called him a punce, and now I'm calling you one punce.
Would you like a drink? What's your name?
Marc? Fuck?
I don't know what my acquaintance did to upset you, but it's nothing to do with me. I suggest you both go outside and discuss it sensibly in the street.
And the outsiders.
Can I see now?
Well, then bleach you quick cut you Bony is.
Here.
This really makes me look tough. Not until the last week, I'd never seen stand by me. I talked into the night, the kind of talk that seemed important until you discover girls. All Right, all right, Mickey's a mouse?
Donald to Duck too a dog? What's Goofy? If I can only have one food for the rest of my life, that's easy.
Pass joyfullyvor pass.
No question about it.
Goofy's a dark He's definitely a dog. I knew the sixty four thousand dollars question was fixed.
There's no way anybody can know that much about opera. He can't be a dog, wears the hat and drives a car. Wagon trains, really cool show.
Did you ever notice that they never get anywhere?
Just keep wagon training?
God, that's weird. What the hell is Goofy?
One? Of us mentioned Ray Brower, but we were all thinking about him. Yes, it's nineteen fifty nine, ten years before the Summer, immortalized by Brian Adams and four boys from Castle Rock. Here of a dead body along the train tracks about thirty miles out of town, hoping to get their pictures in the paper.
Remember that the.
Boys head off with their rugsacks and not much money between them two dollars thirty seven for Stephen King fans paying attention. The four boys all have stuff going on. Gordy played by Will Wheaton, a wanna be writer grieving the loss of his older brother John Cusack Chris, a forever young river phoenix, struggles to put the legacy of his idiotic brother behind him and dreams of breaking out
of Castle Rock. Teddy Corey Feldman, a hothead who may have inherited this from his father, and Vern played by future Jerry maguire quarterback Jerry O'Connell in his film debut, who Okay, doesn't have that much going on outside being
a bit chubby. Will they get to the body first or will local thug Ace Keifer Sutherland and his hoods get their first Based on the Stephen King novella titled The Body, directed by the Great Rob Rainer, stand by Me is a testament the friendship, even if those friendships don't end up spanning a lifetime. Rob Carlton, have you ever had to carefully remove a leech from your scrotum?
I think when it comes to leech removal and scratum's careful is not really a factor. You just got to get you get off quick son. Honestly, man, I'm not slowing down at that point to go be careful of the crackash.
So you removed the few over the years, I.
Had to really remove a leek my wife's LaPier. Oh long ago.
Oh I'm glad I went in and demanded an answer.
Look, I couldn't fault the leech's intent, but I had to question his timing. We live in as A it's a moist area up there on the central coast, my bride, So to be honest with you, I may have done it to myself, but once I did that, it seems to have removed all other leech memories.
And why wouldn't it. Why wouldn't it. That's an amazing where it's a hot start. You ain't seen nothing yet. I was not expecting you weren't expecting. I wasn't expecting to say.
It, mate, So glad to have you on this. I was watching this.
Sometimes I watch movies and I think, I really hope the guess is enjoying this. I hope they've got something to say about it. I was watching this, not necessarily knowing if you're gonna enjoy it or not. But I knew you were gonna have something to say about it, and I can't wait to get to it. But why hadn't you seen stand By Me? Because this is a movie for me I'd seen many times and that was a pretty big movie amongst my friendship group, and it was hit at the right time.
I was eleven when it came out. Why hadn't you seen it?
That's right, And I didn't know it was first question my wife asked, she's way, you've never seen stand by Me. In fact, it was the same tone you rudely took when I said I hadn't seen stand by AP when I was. It was hurtful. But let's press on. So I'm there going I don't know why you know, And maybe I was because I too. I was fifteen when it came out River. Phoenix is just a year older
than me, So it was the zeitgeist. It was the movie, and at the time, I'm saying to my wife, maybe I've just wasn't at that party that afternoon, but I'd never seen it, and I knew that i'd never seen it, And anyway, as I was watching it, I came to realize and remember kind of why I hadn't seen it, and it wasn't a mistake. I think I got told.
So what I knew about the movie when it came out was it was about four really close friends and there was the picture stand by me, the four kids and walking along the train line, so I knew that about the movie. Then I think somebody had said to me, Oh, it's a movie about four friends and someone dies. I thought one of those kids was going to die, and I never wanted to see the movie because of it.
I liked that.
I remember watching looking at that picture, so I remember this as I was watching the film, It's like, oh my god, that's right. That's why I never watched this film because I did not want to. I couldn't put myself through it because they looked like such an kids, and I think that's what happened to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I'm glad I finally watched it. Well I did I watch it? A spoiler alerts we do on this, I guess you've got to get to it.
They'll be spoilers through out of it.
We'll come back to this stand by me because I do want to talk about your three favorite films. First all excellent films. I've seen two of them actually, and it's certainly on my list to do the first one.
You mentioned this Sting. I have not seen the Sting.
I remember watching for this podcast, which case in the Sundan's Kid, watching that and going wow, that was like the first movie that I actually watched for the first time for this podcast. So I thought, this is what I'm doing this podcast. This is not just about introducing other mates who are, you know, movie lovers to films I hadn't seen, but also for me to see films
I hadn't seen. And that came up and I was been thinking, these two were said to my wife in the morning, these two are, so do you know how good looking Robert you know Newman and Robert red Redford Paul Newman over coffee that they are stunning I was showing. I was googling photos of them, and I remember thinking after that, I gotta watch The Sting.
Yeah, but I still haven't go around to it.
Well, it's a terrific film on that. With regards to how good looking they are, I mean, this is how deluded any young boy he can get. And I think we'll probably get into delusions of nature as of who we are when we start getting into standby me, because there's a bit of that in there. But to disavow your audience of any who thoughts they may have on me, whether I'm deluded or not, I'll give them a head start. When I was a young actor, I thought, well, I've
got the same name as Robert Redford. Perhaps I too, and I love Robert Redford from The Sting and it's like literally that was as for me, it was like me and Robert Redford are almost the same. I had no idea at that stage of the ridiculousness of his good looks, and certainly when lined up against this funny looking head, I was never in the same lane. But it was enough for me to convince myself that I might be. Because I had the same name as Robert Redford.
The reason I loved The Sting was because to me, it was there was so much going on in that film. It was the first sense I had of a wrong been righted by the underdog. It was this beautiful sense of there's a mental mentee relationship in that struck me.
There was the daring do and the courage of a young Redford and the brains of a newman, and there were so many beautiful stories, and then there was the there's a bit goes on where you're suddenly not sure which ways up and it broke my heart, and then the final resolution put my heart back together and let me sing all the way hard.
It's a beautiful film. I gotta I gotta watch it. I'm embarrassed I have. It's taken me so long with Nail and I. I watched it for the first time for this podcast again. Limo, of course he hadn't seen it. It was embarrassed he hadn't seen it because it's a it's a movie. It's a British cult comedy classic. It's not necessarily one that.
You know. It's not Four Weddings and a Funeral. It's not one of those.
Every scene very big in the comedy and theater world because it involves a theater actor theater actors, and Limo he was lukewarm about it, and I wonder if it's the kind of film that plays better closer you saw it from its release.
Perhaps was that a gentle way of saying it's.
No no, Because I watched it again and by the end of discussing it, we both actually said, oh, we're going to give it another crack. So I think this podcast is always about somebody who's still processing a film. You've literally watched you stand by me a couple of days ago, Limo watched it the night before.
Somebody were watching it that morning.
So often what happens in this podcast if somebody doesn't necessarily hasn't loved the film, after an hour of discussing it, they're like, actually, man, I think about it.
I liked it more than I thought.
Yeah, And that makes sense. I mean not to sort of, you know, pull the magic sheet away from the presentation, but you are when you're watching a film for this podcast, you're in a slightly different audience space as well, because you're trying to lock a few things in. I am interested to in that notion of with Nail and I
and the response to it. I was in my late teens early twenties, which is right around just a couple of years younger than the Leeds at that point, and so at that point what it had explored to me was this notion of unprescribed futures, the notion of we do not know how this will play out, but there is an energy in me that will hurl me towards the future, and I will just grab it by its coattails.
I was still in that place, and then watching with Nail and Eye characters go through that they were just at the end of that phase where they were truly hoping they were going to get flicked off, but the hope was starting to fade. It was all starting to drain away. And so for me it was that sense if I still had that young man's energy, and watching the shine come off it and couple of characters just a couple of years further forward, it was kind of like it was almost like a giddy upsun better get
going because this could turn bad. It was exciting.
You talk about movies that you see at an important time in your life. It could be a song that you hear at the right time that hits you. You know, it sounds like you know, you got you still think yourself as Robert Redford probably at the stage pot and you see whitneyl And which is a nice little dose of reality and like you said, a bit of a giddy up. So yes, I love when movies hit you or a song at the right time.
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
The Outsiders.
I read this book at school and then we watched a movie at school. I love this for those who don't know, perhaps what the greatest future cast of all time, as far as the meds in this.
Unbelievable and possibly the three best words stay or four if you count pony Boys two stay gold. You know what a thing to say to someone.
Yeah, it's beautiful. So see Thomas Howe is pony Boy. You got Patrick Swayze in there, Ralph Maccio, Tom Cruise, Diane Lanes in their Emilio Estevez made a Mat Dylan of course, Matt Dylan. Let's still for Johnny. Let's still for Johnny Man. Matt how good is Matt Dylan by the way, He's extraordinary great?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he jumps all over the genres and then he came and showed us his comic chops in the area. Yeah, so I think he's just wonderful and he's going he's one of those classic guys and he almost it's hard to feel sorry for them, but yeah, I call them true artists trapped inside the body of a matinee idol. There's a few people around like that, I think. I mean Australia's got a couple Simon Baker. I would consider Simon Baker a true artist trapped inside
the body of a matinee idol. Yeah. I think his performances have always been wonderful. I've loved watching Simon's work over the years, and he went over to America and of course his first big, big gig was The Guardian and then went on to The Mentalist. So he's been kind of in those big end but in those big network shots. But his work since coming out of that and the films that he's been directing show and speak
to his sensibilities. Yeah, but I think people don't necessarily see them because he's got that ridiculous smile and he's extraordinarily handsome. Anyway, I think Matt Dylan might be one.
Of those And when you see the Outsiders.
The reason this film stuck with me. I was so terrified for everyone involved. I was so upset. Do you know what was the film warri Is come out and play Warry?
Yeah?
Do you remember there was? There was like a gang in New York trying to find their way out of New Well, that's something you've got to see, because that was that was an epic classic. But again I mentioned that film because I watching that as a teenager, was desperately terrified and couldn't believe, like it was almost like watching a horror film. For me. The Outsiders I found so desperately sad, so desperately tragic. The socials or the socks.
How did you pronounce that? I think, yeah, I always went socious, But you know, the jury is still out. So the socias, I remember just seeing hating them so much, and then I couldn't believe they were bringing knives out and all of a sudden, I'm watching Teenagers and I'm, you know, a teenager growing up on the northern beaches of Sydney, and I'm looking at this film and I'm seeing guys my age with knives and guns. I just remember being so desperately worried for everyone involved. That's how
vested I got in that story. And what I loved about it was the kindness, the tenderness with which these so called rough kids handled each other, and then you could see the decisions. I think the Coppler's gift in that film was that you could see the compassion and the tenderness and the love that underpinned their violent choices. And that's a really interesting thing for a storyteller to do, especially if you target as young men like I was at the time, and being able to watch these guys going,
I get that feeling. I get that sense of being put upon or not believed or you set aside, and that violence and that race that young man's testosterone can bring. I can see it all. But I can see that ultimately these guys just want to be kind to one
another and they just don't understand each other. And so for me, it was so frustrating watching the inevitable fallout, but so beautifully done by Coppler to make me feel so worried on behalf of those tough guys and lovely guys and sweet guys and mean guys.
Let's talk about the film.
We are here to talk about from nineteen eighty six, directed by Rob Rainer, from the novella by Stephen King.
What an eighties cast.
It's got Will Wheaton, Corey Feldman, you've got River Phoenix.
Of course, KEITHA. Sutherland, Richard Dreyfuss is in there. John Cusack, I just want to.
Talk about Keith A. Sutler trade up now. He went Ziggy Stardust on us in this one of you. You said that he just looks so kind of hot and cute, so like he's got I make cup on his black Mascar and he's kind of looking all Pixie and it's.
It's kind of his Lost Boys, you know, kind of face, because Lost Boys would have been around this time where he I think he played a lot of mean guys, a lot of young guns that maybe turned it around.
For him, Okay, but it was so sort of bordering on kind of like, as I say that Ziggy Stardust, that kind of almost effeminate, hot nasty guy. Very confusing, especially for me, given that's the part I would have played. Yeah, I mean, for your listeners that don't know my work, I've played pretty much every bully, every nasty, every standover over the years.
As I mentioned in the intro, I mean Logi Award winning for playing.
Some might say Australia's one of Australia's greatest bullies.
Yes, he's the Kerry Packer.
That's right, that's right. So I was looking at that and I'm like, first of all, of course, like Sutherland's got my role, and then I'm not all, but he's doing it well and he brings a sex appeal that I'm not.
Sure I could have.
We're going to get to all of this very soon, but I need to ask you, did you enjoy stand by me?
Absolutely loved it. And again I think if we go back to those observations on the Outsiders, what I was witnessing here was again these boys are largely pre pubesson twelve of their young kids just coming into that notion of teenage life and agency. Yeah, if you will, that's the I mean, this is a story about agency. The fact that you're thinking on it now. The whole thing is exactly about that agency and a world where people have already judged you. And that's certainly River Phoenix's dilemma
that he's wrestling with so strongly. But what I loved about this is that notion of four young friends ultimately trying to wrestle the world into a shape that will have them, and it's it's a beautiful thing to contemplate, especially when you've got those nasty forces as represented by Keifer Sutherland's gang. And let's just have a look at how every time you cut to Keith of Sutherland's gang. I don't know where their fathers were, but they were.
There's no else in this whole movie.
Basically there's there's Gordy's dad, who's you know, not nice to him at all, and and and.
Everyone else is eating porridge.
Yeah, there's there's no police, there are no Keifer's gang.
They kind of loaf around like calm, kind of like lizards on rocks, around around a pond, and they're Either's just sort of what I loved about that one scene there was one guy just getting the homemade tattoo of I think that the Cobras, I think is their gang, and Keifer's just they're just polishing, polishing car parts just to within an inch of their lives. So you've got these nefarious, dark forces. I mean, there's always so much tension.
These young twelve year olds are always in such jeopardy all through the film, whether it's the train coming, or Keifer's thing, or the dead body, the arrival of the garden, or bleaches leeches on the scroden. God bless those leechers. There's always saying. And in the middle of it are these four kids try to be themselves in a group, keep them hold themselves to account, and ask the best
of each other while not being put upon. Ultimately, it's the great conflict that we all face the whole time, all of our lives, and it's just wrought so beautifully with these four young boys inside this eighty minute film.
I mean, the premise is such a beautiful premise to explore these childhood friendships. You almost forget to Stephen King based on the Stephen King material until you remember, oh, there's some really dark stuff. They're going off to find a dead body.
Met there's death everywhere. Body's older brother died just before. I mean, they do not we have we have dream sequences. Got his dream sequences. When he's at his dead brother's funeral and they're putting him to the ground, he remembers his dad saying it should have been you. I mean, it's pile upon pile upon pile upon Every family structure in those boys is absolutely tattered to smithereens. It's utterly brutal mate.
If you lay out those things, it sounds like a really dark kind of film, and it's got darkness in it, but the way Robertina shoots it, it's it's summer and it's it's lightness. And the friendship between these boys does seem tight. They don't over explain anything, but there's there's
the in jokes. They've got these beautiful in jokes that they have that they don't explain it then doesn't need to know, but it's showing you, as opposed to just telling you that these four in this time in their history are really close.
Yeah, that's right, and they trust each other and they like each other.
Yeah, there's no doubt watching this film in twenty twenty four, and if you've watched it in any time over in the last you know, probably fifteen twenty years, he can't help but watch his film and look at River Phoenix's performance and grieve. As a fan of cinema, you know, selfishly what we missed out on and what the world has missed out on. He didn't make many many films before. He's tragic passing, but he's so good. If you're putting
a movie's date in package together, it's almost he predates Lenarda. DiCaprio, Like you wonder if it would have been River Phoenix on the Titanic, it would have been him, you know, in What's Eating Good at Grape like there is there's such similarities, but I think River Phoenix his performance is
so effortless. So he's playing Chris, who's like he's the cool kind of rebel, but to be honest, he's got a soft center and he's been he's living his older brother is an idiot, you know, Aces Cohort, and he's living in the shadow and it's not the last shadow to live in. But his performance is incredible. So his character, Chris has there was an incident involving him stealing allegedly some milk money from the.
School, which and I love the idea, the milk money.
Milk money, which is Yeah, they're lovely references that do put it in nine to fifty nine for us. I mean, the film made in the mid eighties. But let's ever listen to that scene where he explains what to Gordy What really happened to the milk money?
No one even asked me if I took the milk money that time. I just got through devacation. Did you take it? Yeah, I took it. You knew I took it. Teddy knew I took it. Everyone knew I took it. He never knew it. I think maybe I was sorry and I tried to give it back, tried to give it back. Maybe, and maybe I took it to old Lady Simons and told her and the money was all there, but I still got it through devcation because they never
shut up. And maybe the next week all Lady Simon's had this brand Sudam when she came to school.
Yeah. Yeah, I was brown and had thoughts on it.
Yeah. So let's just say that I stole the milk money, but old Lady Simon stole it back from me. Just suppose that I told this story me Chris Chambers kid brother to Eyeball Chambers. Do you think that anyone would have believed it? Oh? And do you think that that bitch would have dared tried something like that if it been one of those douchebags from up on the View, if they had taken the money, oh way, I don't know, but with me, I'm sure she had her eye on
that skirt for a long time. Anyway, she saw her chance and she took it. I was the stupid one for even trying to give it back.
I never thought the teacher.
Oh fuck.
Anyway, just as.
They could go someplace when nobody.
Knows me, it's an extraordinary performance, like even when Will wait and her thing's really good as Gordy when Hay spakes. And obviously they're in different places, but you just hear the difference between the performance in a way and River Phoenix had done a take. Rob Rainer thought he could do better, and when I took him aside and said, just think of a time an adult has left you, let you down, And he said, the next take he
shot was the take they used in the movie. And he said he never told him who he was thinking about, whether it was a parent or a teacher or not, but that was the thing that brought out the response in him.
Yeah. Yeah, And it reads that way. It reads so personal, it reads so specific. There's nothing general about that performance.
No, you actually believe it happened as opposed to you know, when you were talking earlier with some of those in jokes. Sometimes you're aware that you're watching a movie. Yeah, I got lost in this story.
That's it. That's it. And you know, the dilemma that he talks of is so heartbreaking because it's okay, he's already the fallen angel, so he's already stolen the milk money. Jumans love a redemption story, and so here's a kid that knows he's done something wrong and then he's decided to own up, and then the institution that he has owned up to lets him down. And it's you know, it's a great dramatic device because it takes that audience and goes, fuck you school teacher, fuck you world, fuck
you institutions. I'm now firmly on the side of these kids.
Yeah, and you truly are.
I mean that it's the kids against the world, isn't it that the parents have let them down, the teachers have let them down, their older brothers have let.
Them down, the town's let them down. So yeah, on that older.
Brother thing, it's interesting. I know, I keep going back to Keifer because I wanted his look and his role. But what's fascinating about Keifer's character is that he's loyal and he wants his bat like he doesn't like he wants control, but he doesn't like it when he gang's not together. Have you like there's something about Keifer he wants people around him. He's lonely. He's just as lonely as all these other people too. It's just you know, he's a couple of years older, and so from a
storyteller's point of view, he's already beyond redemption. But there's still a desperate need for love and affection. Yeah, even there, it's a niche year. There's a lot going on there.
The boys are very clearly drawn, aren't they? Which is you know you do have?
And I mentioned it in intro, But Gordy is bookish, you know, he's smart, he's obviously the lead character.
Teddy's is a hothead, Vern.
Is the class clown, and Chris is the cool kid who the misunderstood cool kid.
I think they're all very clear outsider. Yeah.
In interesting to me that the two biggest I think Stephen king movies don't lean into the horror. We think Stephen king os is the master of horror. But the two biggest ones, I would say, stand by me and the biggest one probably the Shawshank Redemp shit don't really they have dark themes in them, but they don't lean.
Into horror as much. I find them really kind of fascinating.
Yeah, well, I think what Stephen King does with these stories and those dark themes, and that you never get the true measure of someone until you've seen them under real pressure. So if we kind of extrapolate that into a relationship dynamic, then we truly don't know how good a friend we have or how much this means to us. If everything's just peachy keen. Each of these characters have
these desperately sad backgrounds. That darkness is what leads to and honoring that twelve year olds can have emotional responses and experiences, and this is what kind of bugs me out the modern dialogue. I'm not sure that's appropriate for that age. And it's like, man, I've seen kids deal with the most propressing things, not because it's appropriate, but
because their dad's a fuck wit. What I admired normously about this story is that it goes hard in a tough place and leaves you feeling hopeful.
Yeah, it goes hard, but it's never heavy handed. It's still of very enjoyable. It leaves you hopeful. It's a very enjoyable movie to watch, and there's set pieces along the way. It's got almost like a Western field. It completely does. It's got that journey. I mean the introduction of the train.
Track train is an amazing scene.
Yeah, and you know the train's going to come.
Absolutely, the train is going to come, and you feel it because they go they go across a shorter bridge earlier, and I think it's just the train scene like I sent it for a few years, and then that's a short it's a shorter bridge, and then in the massive bridge and you know it's got to cost that he drops a penny down, you know, through the crack or something, and you know he says it's.
The one to come remember beautiful, And I mean that's.
Just the lovely notion of he brings a cone so that when they get discovered and have to have their photo in the newspaper, their hair will look good. That's that's Vern's offering and seven cents.
It's so funny and so I don't know, maybe I feel very nostalgic the idea in watching this in twenty twenty four with you know, everyone can have their photos in places way more powerful than in the newspaper. To see these kids, the inspiration to going off the Finest Dead Body was to get their photo in the paper, Like getting your photo in the paper.
My dad still talks about getting his photo in the paper.
Because it's not just the twelve year olds, it's Keifer's gang as well. Yeah, they want their photo in the newspaper. The whole final bit is a standoff over who's going to get their photo in the I mean we could have renamed it that.
Thinking about this movie and other movies, you know, The Breakfast Club and lo those John Hughes movies, there's going to be a lot of films in the eighties about kids dealing with their shit, you know, like from you know,
thirteen to fifteen, sixteen year olds. I might be wrong, but I feel like that those movies don't really get made anymore where it's that age group dealing like they kind of cut to it's all of a sudden that they're on a fantastical adventure as opposed to these smaller, you know, invert commas films, but are actually dealing with.
Kids going through turmoil. Might be completely wrong.
It's interesting, isn't it. I mean, I think about the sort of the hit films in Australia for that age grew paper Last at a while. There's not many, but Paper Planes was one very different sort of feel, honoring the emotional wherewithal and the emotional distress anybody can go through it at that age, and wrapping a film around it. I mean, whether that's to do with who's going to the movies and who's buying tickets and where the money's
I don't know. But there's also something interesting in that American space is that often I find the complex emotional dilemmas at play in stand By Me are dealt with in a much more emotionally intelligent fashion for twelve to thirteen year old characters than a lot of their other movies when we're looking at sort of the mid twenties, and I think they fall away a little bit as they get older. And is there something cleaner and neater about a twelve or thirteen year old facing someone something,
getting a resolution and moving on. It's is it easier as an audience to buy that they've had that win? Do we project a sense of they're still young enough to repair and to have that northern star be clear enough for them to follow for the rest of their futures, because that's all we're witnessing of their lives.
Interesting, you mentioned the win. What is the win in this? They don't get their picture in the paper. There's the emotional growth. That's the wind, really, isn't it. They come back into town and the town feels different, It feels smaller because they've seen in a way that they feel like they've seen the world.
The winner is agency. They were backed into a corner where every single time up until this point they would have got rubbed out or moved on or told what was going to happen next. And Gordie takes that gun, points it at Kifer and says friend not today. And he does it when he's protecting his friend Chris because he does not want to get pushed around anymore. That's their win. It's that notion of do not treat me like a twelve year old anymore.
I want to mention a hat. Oh yeah, did you have the same thought like the hat? They took the hat just.
A step too far? Mate? Yeah, I was taking a hat.
Wondered if in that the gun scene where the hat could have made.
A ah, I'm with you.
Give me the hat.
I rarely give over so quickly to a new position, pete, but you've got me with hat. Yeah, because it would have been the final Although if he'd done that, would we have thought he's been petty. No, it wasn't petty. It was his brother's past hat.
That's the most important thing in the wor that's more important than the dead body. Yeah, Robert and has been asked about it, actually, and he said that ace would have been so little to him, he would have thrown it a way. Well, I want him to be reunited with his brother's hat. And I just thought, in that moment, if that was the wind just getting the hat back.
Isn't that interesting Because there's moments where you just think that's enough. When I took that hat, every muscle in my body was just like, that's unfair. That's his brother's hat, and you should know about his But I think he told that's the one point where you think, Okay, we're gonna have some we're gonna have a sense of outcome. Right now he's going to say that was my dead brother's hat. And Keith of Southern's character is just going
to go. Oh dear in me, I wasn't aware you can have that back, because that's way too special for even me to keep. But they didn't do that. No, it was devastating he was.
And then he'd never seen the hat again. So I thought, when the when the gun came out, that might have been a time.
Let's have a listen to that gun scene and and see if you can spot on my war could have squeezed the hatty man, why don't.
You go home and fuck your mother some more?
You're dead.
Christ's wit.
You're not taking one.
Man's crazy.
They're not taking it.
He's gotten nightmare. He's come on, man, you're gonna have to kill me. Ace you no problem.
You're not taking him.
Nobody's taking him.
Come on, kid, just give me the gun before you take your foot off. You ain't got the seck to shoot a woodchuck.
Movies.
I'll kill you, I swear to God.
Come on the shance, give me the gun. You must have at least some of your brothers good sense. Suck my.
Cheap dime store hood?
What are you going to shoot us all?
The first one I want to say, the cheap dime store hood kind of stood out to me a little bit, and then I thought, is that is that a written line? But I give it a pass because Gordy is a writer, So there you go. I go, Okay, that makes sense. He maybe he's probably thought about Ace and maybe he's had already concocted that line previously.
I got two spots to sneak it in. Okay, So the first one I think Chris could have done it before Gordy even got there. Yes, try this on for sized Pete ye, why don't.
You go.
Fuck your mother some more and bring back my friend's hat. Just sneak it in straight off the back of sort of filial devotion, if you will. So that then Chris could have done got his mates back, and then or another part of the scene, which is slipping in with what we've got there, is so Gordy comes back, shoots the gun and he says, you're not taking him, nobody's taking him. It's sunny out and he's not wearing a hat,
and then work in the hat that way. But other than that, I didn't feel dramatically like it was going to serve the scene. Every time I squeezed it in Pete it felt.
Like, I kind of thought you had this a little bit of restructuring. There's one where he says, give me, give me the gun. When he says give me the gun, you give me my hat back.
Yeah, but it's interesting. But Gordy wasn't interested in negotiation. He was, and this was the whole thing about like, I think your agency doesn't require the Okay, I like it if Chris says it, yeah, fuck your mother some more and bring me my friend's hat back.
Yeah, because again it puts it back the friendship.
That's it. That's it, and it doesn't take away from the main thrust of that scene.
Is Gordy a.
Good writer, Rob Randon? Did you know kind of toss and turn about what kind of story would he tell? And the idea is he basically grows up to be Stephen King. This is kind of based on Stephen Kings. That's the Thinking's not necessarily the screen, but it's what they were, the thinking behind the whole thing. The reason I asked, is Gordy a good writer? I think he shows promise. I think Gordy is a kid, shows promise
as a writer. But then I'm not sure if the closing moments of the movie and the article that he writes that he's very proud of. He turns into Richard Drayfus by this he's very proud of. He's almost kissing it, like Emilio Estevez kisses hisso Anthony Michael Hall kisses his little thing that he wrote on behalf of all of them?
Is that kind of proud of what he's written? But what the show is that good?
I didn't know where I was going to bring this hat today, Pete, but you've stumbled upon something that I think what I got from the end of the film, and in actual fact that last bit of the line, So have you got written down something along the lines of you know, he never had look back on that time, and I've never had good of friends as I had
when I was twelve, But Jesus does anyone. So I would hazard a guess that if a middle aged writer hasn't had better, more rewarding friendships than the ones that we've just witnessed in that film, then no, he can't be a good writer because he's not much of a man.
The reason I say that, and which brings me to then what I was actually going to say, Pete, And this is controversial is that I believe that notion that they try and capture at the end of that film is why America is in such a state of partless hope at the moment, because he's basically saying, the best relationships we have when we're twelve, they never get better than that, and that's kind of the high water mark.
A lot of my dealings with Americans, a lot of them do have kind of juvenile aspirations as to what a good relationship is like. It's like they're niggling and they fun but never getting to it and never talking about actual proper stuff and always been good time people and moving on to the other thing before we can actually truly resolve the problem. So yeah, I'm not convinced that God he was a good writer. It's heartbreaking now for all the people that love the film, it's predicated
on a lie. Thanks Peter.
No, these are just opinions, and please remain strong. I mean, I love this film, but I mean this does nothing but it made. Good films will do this. They make you think about your own life. And I was thinking about the friends that I had in prim and I'm still like what I would call my in a Circle is still that the kids I went to school with. In a way, I've got other friends I've met through you know, comedy and life and who are you know,
just as important to me. And I found it strange that they had this intense experience and then they basically didn't know each other. They didn't have anything to do with each other, you know, as adults. And then I kind of thought about it more and I thought that actually kind of rings true. And maybe I'm thinking more of the movie version of what that would be like.
And as much as I have kept in touch with you know, a lot of my mates just referred to the man in Circle, but even then I might only see them once or twice a year. To be absolutely honest, it's not that surprising that these for people who really are only friends because they live in the same town. One wants to bust out, one wants to join the army,
so they've all got different ambition. Thinking about it so more, I kind of liked the idea that it was honest enough the movie to kind of go the more shinyer Hollywood version of this is like, and we were best friends forever.
Yeah, But I think I mean, this is what these movies in the eighties were really good at doing, which was acknowledging and buffing and shining a moment in time and holding it there beautifully. It's kind of like the mosquito caught in the sap. It's that thing of oh my god, that's there, but it's a time and a place. And so that end of the film is interesting in that it does acknowledge that people move on and people change,
but we can look back on that time. The bit that did bug me was like they were the best friends I ever had, and it's like that to me was so I just didn't trust that was still the twelve year old speaking as opposed to the adult writing, and there was Oh, I mean I can understand that there's still that wonderment and joy and that notion. There's a beauty of nostalgia. I mean, nostalgia Pete can do all sorts of things to people's logic.
Well, this movie kind of is so funny because neither of us were born in ninetin fifty nine, so we're not nostalgia for that, but you recognize the time, you know, and then you become the nostalgia for No. Eighty six as well. Because of you know, the actors involved in the kind of filmmaking. So it works on a number
of levels of nostalgia. Very powerful. I mean, does he get spoken enough in we talked about Spielberg and you know Copplers and John Hughes gets spoken about, I think more than robberrain sometimes.
But Rob Rainer give us a list.
What do we got?
His first film is this is Spinal Tap. Yeah, and that's the groundbreaking mockumentary style was born. The Office doesn't exist without this. The Christopher Guest films don't work without this, the sure thing, great little film. I've said that John Cuzzack is great. Then stand by Me. Then The Princess Bride, This is a good run. When Harry Matt Sally, Yeah, Misery another Stephen King adaptation, I think my favorite of
the Stephen King horror patients a few good men. Then he makes a little film called North which doesn't necessarily hit. Then The American President, very underrated a little.
Oh it's gorgeous.
Yeah, it was gorgeous, and then probably doesn't make you know, many hits. He makes films like years later, the bucket List. Yeah, that's probably you know, the high point named about six that run he had, that's an extraordinary run. He made one of those films, and your a legend. He's made I reckon six at least films that are spoken about.
But when was the last time iment, So we talked about that notion of legacy, and I guess that's what you're talking to, is you know you started by saying, you know, he's not spoken of in the same waight he terms as a Spielberg or it's say, it's interesting because a lot of the stuff that he did with the big films were lightly beautiful touches, you know. I mean, When Harry Met Sally was an iconic film of its day, but it's a slight film. It's gorgeous and funny and lovely.
Stand By Me was kind and gentle, but it had kids as the leads.
Yeah.
I don't know whether it's because he's playing in a space where ultimately he's trying to make people feel there's something about those films. I mean, even a Few Good Men was trying to get more into that weightier space, but it still had a pretty sumptuous, kind of gobblable center to it that was that was pretty easy to easy to absorb. Maybe that's people resent that the fact that he's they're pretty slick, absorbable.
Stories that sort of a few good men. You know, there are comedies as well.
I mean, you know, I mean people think comedy is easy as far as but it's acting on screen and directing it on screen very difficult. This is a beautiful scene. This is Gordy breaking down and river Phoenix, Chris comforting him.
Don't say that it should don't see that, man, My dad's added a little good. It doesn't keep you. No, he just doesn't know you.
It's it's oh good.
Should gonna be a great water or something? Gordy. You might even write about us. Guys, if you ever get hard up from material, I guess it has to.
Be really hard enough.
Yeah, it's a lovely line because obviously we know that we're watching a movie about the story that he's told.
Yeah.
Again, it's it's a real phoenix, Like, how good is it to have a friend the right moment in your life?
What I loved about that saying is that it completely honors the emotional truth of the characters at that age. It was a beautiful thing to be reminded of. So I'm fifty two. Now I've got twenty year old sons. My boys had a good friend that went through an illness and I went on a camp with the Boys Rights of Passage camp for Making of Men experience. And one of the things that became apparent to me when I was away with one of my boys was that the health of his friend was with him every minute,
was with him every minute. So that was one, and then my other boy it became apparent when I went on the camp with him we went separately that his greatest sadness when he was in year seven was his best friend left the Central Coaster go and live in Brisbane, and he was devastated by it. He was upset and he told me he would cry himself to sleep because
he missed his friend. And so that scene in that film was another trigger reminder to me to remember whenever you're dealing with anybody at any age, but certainly with younger people, you can go ah, you can say, don't worry, you won't won't matter to you. When you're older, you'll
forget about that. No, that's not important, son. And it's really really easy to whitewash the emotions of younger people because we from an older perspective, know that the sands of time will stand the edges off that that heartache and you'll be fine. But in that moment, it is everything to those children, and it needs to be honored and admired when they can find each other and express
it to each other. So those tiny little things. I remember it coming out the fact that I had listened to my boy and had that moment with my boy and realized how difficult it was for him to lose his mate to Queensland. It played out beautifully a little while later because we were talking about our Christmas holidays and we're going to fly down to Melbourne for Christmas holidays and that was that, and Jimmy just asked quietly, old what day are we going to fly down to
Melbourne for Christmas holidays? And we said, oh, this day, and he's gone, oh ah, well, and then he said the name of his friend. He said, I'll call him Pete, because you're here. Pete's flying down just that day and if we leave that day, I won't see it. And my wife didn't wasn't aware of his emotion connection to this. Kids said, oh, you'll be able to talk to him on the phone and you'll be able to. I'm sure
you'll catch up with him on another holiday. Because we were just in that logistics space and my boy didn't say any but I clocked him. His whole body went like that. And my wife didn't know because she wasn't aware of this emotional thing that he had going on. But she basically had said to him in that moment, you don't matter. That's what he heard.
Yeah, you heard.
And at no point did my wife everything that because she loves that boy beyond measure. And as soon as we had a discussion, that was completely changed around. But again, just as we travel through our lives with people that aren't at the same space and place and time, whether it's age, culture or sojo, economic demograph, whatever these things, when everyone's different to us, it's easy to project your
own sense of it'll be fine. But what's beautiful about this movie is it takes you back to a space and you see these young boys looking after each other, and you go, God, wouldn't it have been nice for their dads to hear that conversation? And that was the most beautiful thing I took for it. It's like they were beautiful friends in that moment because they just stopped and listened and didn't judge. And I think they do that in this film better than I've been doing a bit lately.
This podcast comes with homework. You are a bloody busy man. There are some projects that you are working on. That secret squirrel stuff at this stage. I mean, feel free to announce him if you like, but very exciting.
I really appreciate you finding time to watch the movie and tetitleus about it.
Pete, thanks so much. It was an absolute joy. If anyone's listening and thinking I haven't seen stand by me, it's lovely eighty four minutes. It's really beautiful to roll around, and so I thank you man for offering it up and taking something a little surprising into my putting something surprising into my week. And that's what I've been looking for lately, Pete. A little bit more.
Surprise, excellent, mate, Love you take care for it. When the name has come and the land is And that was so much fun.
Rob Carlton, he can process things very quickly and then articulate them in ways that make me envious. He is an extraordinary block to hang out with. Very passionate, wise, intelligent, funny and love watching him perform. And you haven't seen him on Boys Swallow's Universe check him out there. Of course, he's Logie Award winning Kerry Packer. Thank you to everybody who listens to the podcast. I love your support. The
best way to support the show. It's all free. I'm not asking for the pony up at all, but if you would like to support the podcast, go to iTunes and give us a rating. I suggest five stars, but you know whatever you like really, but five would be nice, and leave a review if this keeps.
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And so we leave Old Pete safe and salt, and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night