REPETE: Sam Taunton and Kramer Vs Kramer

Good. It's Peter.

Hell ay you here, Welcome to You ain't seen nothing yet? In the Movie Podcast, where our chat to a movie lover about a classic or be loved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now.

In today's guest comedian Sam Tornton, the.

First rule of fight Club is you do not talk about Fike Club now.

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Sam Tawton has been slaying them on the Aussie comedy scene for half a decade now, building his audience through appearances on the Project Just for Laughs and Comedy Next Gen.

He also hosted the show about Jordie Shaw, which I was asked not to mention. Sam.

He's a bloody good golfer too, who seriously considered the option of heading to US colleges with a view of turning pro but made the financially wobbly.

Choice to tackle comedy instead. His accountant need to have worried.

The Herald Sun said, he's on the express elevator to stardom and it's hard to argue not that I would want to argue. Sam is brilliant to watch and fun to hang out with, so much so that I asked him to support my life shows in Sydney in twenty twenty. Sam's later show, Yo Yo Diablou has been killing it at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival and may just be passing through your city.

Now check it out. You can thank me later.

Sam's Hits the Front hides a genuinely lovely bloke from Naarra. His comedy is urban, sharp and always relatable, and I'm bloody stoked to be hanging with him today.

My name is Sam Taunton and my three favorite movies are The Wedding Singer, The Big Chill Deep, and this is quite a hacked choice for a man that departed. It's a matter of smart as you any fucking Shakespeare. But up until yesterday I had not seen the nineteen seventy nine classic Kramer versus Kramer.

Yes, I did remembered to bring the truckolate to a cream home.

And you're not going to have any of it until you eat all your dinner and then meet your meat and your corn.

Where are you going? You get factor? Right now? Did you hear me? You better not do that. You better start right there, Falla.

I'm warning you, Hey, did.

You hear me? Now you listen to me. Don't be smart. Now you go bight back and put that back until you finish your dinner. I'm warning you.

Take one bite out of that during big trouble.

Don't he don't you dare? Don't you dare do that?

Did you hear me?

He stop? Hold it right there.

You put that ice cream in your mouth, and you are in very, very, very big trouble. Don't you dare go anywhere beyond that? Put it down right now. I Am not going to say it again. I Am not going to say it again.

I am.

Wow.

Don't you kill me.

You're not barking now. You are a spoiled, rotten little fract.

I'll tell you right now and hang you and I hang.

You back your little shit.

This divorce has never captured the imagination of the movie going public quiet like nineteen seventy nine's Kramer Versus Kramer. No, it's not a sign felt episode set in the multiverse. It's a Robert Benton directed drama starring white Hot Does Hoffman as Ted and the breakout performance by the acting goat herself. Meryl Streep as Joanna, who leaves both Ted and their young boy Billy to find herself and get her head straight and because she has fallen out of

He was aged eight.

Kramer Versus Cremer is never saccurin or mawkish, yet it's never grimm. It's authentic, intimate, and it struck a chord. Kramer Versus Cremer was incredibly the highest grossing movie of nineteen seventy nine, winning five Oscars, nominated for ten. Kramer Versus Cramer is well written, but it is the performances by generational talents in Hoffman and Streep that elevate this film into classic status. Sam Tordon, how many times did you have to be told to put the ice cream back?

That actually wasn't a recording from the movie. That was me my girlfriend he was, I mean, gave him plenty of opportunities exactly. He should have just done what he had to do. But that is like the indicative of the entire movie. Like there's so much dialogue where you're like, I feel like the plot isn't advancing, It's just I'm just seeing an insight into like you know, like a household that's on the brink of like falling apart.

At any point, we'll get to like the fact that it's the highest grossing film of nine and seventy nine, Like I mentioned an intro that is astonished, it's crazy that this is a talking film, Like this is just talking people talking on couches, people talking in parks, on benches, people talking in rooms.

You know.

It is other films released that year, the first Star Trek film like Moonraker, James Bond, Apocalypse Man.

Like these are huge, These are big, big film. There's a big movie film.

Big big movie films, and this film about divorce hits a chord and becomes the highest grossing film you know, of that year.

I looked at it did something like one hundred and seventy million off a thirty million dollar budget or something, which is like insane like return. But also it's like I doubt that could happen now, Like you know, like now movies are like people go franchises or their reboots, and that seems to be the way to get generation or like to get interest, to get people into the cinema.

I think Crame Versus Creamate like inspires this kind of the wave of divorce movies. I think Ordinary People came the year after, which would have been in production and maybe even film, but by the time Crame Versus Crement came out, but like, uh, shoot, the Moon I think comes out a few years later. There's a whole bunch of them that came.

You've seen Blue Valentine in a similar vein it's kind of more of the relationship breaking down, but in a similar way that it just pulls on your heartstrings just watching this thing that was one beautiful collapse, and maybe people are drawn to that kind of I don't know, sadness, or maybe it's more relatable than anything else. You could put on its screen.

It's so weird.

I was thinking that in nineteen seventy nine, for some reason, divorce was in the zeitgeist, Like you don't think we were trying to pick the zeitgeist to go so funny and probably I'd love to know what you know what divorce rates kind of were happening around that.

Right, because that's when people first it would have become popular, being like, this is an option. We don't have to be together, we can separate.

Women worked it out. They thought we can actually leave blokes.

Well, there is a line in COVID Craber where it's like this women's live business. It's like off it so hard, but it's probably like totally like men were getting left and being like women are in powered now. They were hating it obviously.

Yeah, so why did you choose? I know you came back with two choices.

Yeah, I know the two choices. I can't believe you chose this one.

Well yeah, well what was the other one? The other one was Basic?

Now I haven't I haven't seen well, I've seen one.

Scene in Basic many times? Yeah, many times.

Well, no, as a young man, you do it just it's in your life that one scene in Basic Instinct growing up, But no, I hadn't seen it, and I thought for sure you were going to go with that, and instead you went with.

Well because Kramer versus Kramer.

I saw it when I was younger, like ten or eleven, and it didn't and I was on TV.

Yeah, and it had no hook in for me.

We'll be hard as a kid to really it's just people talking.

It's people talking. It's a drama. Put ads in that as well.

You know, where do you even put the ads? Because there's no like big like crescendo at the end of each scene.

That's true.

So I don't think I ever finished watching it, So I had like a vague memories of, you know, watching it, and and so I was keen to going to revisit it, and I was goind of glad I did, we will get the Basic instinct. Somebody else put forward Basic Instinct, and I chose another film we might have do it like a live and a few.

People, because I always I feel I haven't seen based against him. But I was talking to my friend about it and I'm like, oh, he gave me these two options to watch, and he was like, oh, yeah, you don't want to just have two dudes, straight men sitting around talking about like deconstructing baits against him.

We may have to get some ladies in. Yeah, I think let's feat of Love a bit. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So we'll get to what we'll come back. And I'm really fascinated with your thoughts on came versus Cramer. But your three favorite films we had Cameron James and recently hitt Parenthood as a fun episode if you haven't heard that one. But he also nominated The Wedding Singer. Did you know that? Well, you guys bonded over there.

We have spoken. Cameron and I are quite good friends with it down the road from each other in Sydney, and we love we love the Wedding Singer. I don't know why, and I feel like all my three choices

It must have been soaked well Pete.

It took. I don't like musicals at all, Like they're not for me. I know some people love them. And then I was like, but who cares, Like it's the wedding singer.

I'll go.

And then I sat down and within the first like four minutes, I realized Adam Sandler's not in this musical, or so is the character in there? No, the character is, but in my head it was going to be. I thought maybe Adam Sander would have something to do. And then all that they only did the two songs. They did obviously the end song, you know, the grow old with You, and then they did the other song that you know when he's like, were your kill me? I

Idea, yeah you're saying, the idea behind it was on shaky ground.

Yeah.

I just think they were using the good name of a movie that a lot of people love with music in it, because I would have loved to have go and seen all the songs from the word, but I don't think they can license all the songs to their musical. But it was still it still was entertaining, but it wasn't I think when you have so much love for one thing and then it gets redone in kind of another genre, it can be interesting to see my wife.

I like the wedding Singer. My wife really likes this.

And I think watching Adam Sam Landrew Barrymore in any movie is fun.

Like Fifty First Dates, I really enjoy Yeah, you know, and.

It's all guilt free watching the other thing.

Absolutely.

But when I was invited to the wedding Singer and I said to the bridge, do you want to go?

Like you know? And I couldn't quite and we didn't go.

And I think it was a timing thing in the end, but I couldn't quite get my head around how why or how they were doing this. Yeah, totally, And I think sometimes you know, and I'm always I give something a chance, so you know, like it was more of a time issue from us not getting there. My wife went and saw Jagie Little Pill and she had no idea you know what that was going to be. Like it was blown away by it, like this said, this is one of the like unlike any other things she's seen.

Yeah I wasn't talking a week later about the wedding. Well, the problem was it was years.

Later you're talking about it. You won't shut up about it.

They just like extended out I will stop talking about it. But this is my last point. It's like they just extended out scenes that weren't even big in the movie and became like these ten minute songs. And it's just like I don't know if you remember the scene, but there's a scene where he's he's in the bin after he like ruins a gig he's doing above MITZV or something, and then like Drew Barrymoll has to come and get get him, and it's like a two minute scene she's like,

They're like, get out of the bin.

You shouldn't be in the bin, and it's gone for ever and ever and ever. So Yeah, Anyway, it also feels that.

It's refusing to acknowledge that one of the best thing about the Wedding Sing is Adam Sandler and Drew Barry totally.

That's actually where what it comes down to, like the script is that's the other thing. Watching the musical, I'm just like, oh, the plot of this is every other thing I've seen ever before. But the thing that makes it good is the dynamic and the chemistry between those two.

Yeah, school of Rock got away with it. We saw a School of Rock in New York and with the kids, and that was fun.

But you got I saw that.

As I say, I hate musicals, but I did see that.

Yeah, did you enjoy that? I liked it? Yeah? Yeah, because but you got the kids as well.

Kids are great, and you know, it's not necessarily like the wedding Sing is based on the chemistry between these two you know, wonderful actors, where where Jack blackives an unbelievable performance, but it's not like he needs to build this chemistry with with you know, another actor. But I really enjoyed score of Rock, both movie and the musical. Yeah, Big Chill.

Now do you know have you seen the Big Chill? I have?

Yeah?

Now, The Big Chill I think is like the most nostalgic choice here for me because when I was growing up, not only did my parents have the movie on VHS and would make me watch it a lot, not make me watch it, but like I loved it, but then we would also we also had the soundtrack on vinyl, and the soundtrack is umble. It's all these old motown hits.

One of the first big soundtracks.

Oh yes, like Aretha Franklin and like the band and like all these great acts. And it's like I still listen to it now, and like the opening scene has got like the rolling stones that you can't always get where you were, Like it's like iconic. And so this movie, like when I someone says the Big Chill, I think about the soundtrack playing and like the smell of like my mum having coffee, like and coffee. So it's like

I haven't watched it for a while, but it was in my mind.

It was one of those movies that was like one of the first based on the idea of like adults getting together a you know, like a beachside you know, or you know, a retreat, yeah, and hanging out and things coming up.

Well, now it feels like every person's weekend. Ever they hire an airbnb and a bunch of friends. But like, yeah, I'm sure back then, because it's like early eighties, I think the film might be yeah, or maybe late eighties, But then it does seem like they're there for a funeral for their friend. Yes, but it's like it ends up becoming this whole separate thing and they all hang around.

But it is.

Yeah, it's totally like an interesting not a coming of age thing, but it's it's not Dowur, but it's kind of quite uplifting in itself.

Yeah, Kasden actually wrote and directed that, which I yeah, lines Casten obviously involved with Indiana Jones and and Star Wars and I strikes back.

Very different angle, very really.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure which film you were watching. Didn't Star Wars start with a funeral?

An I've also shown this film to like every girl I've ever dated. It's been like real, it's like because you know, it's one of my things to be like if this is if you want to be no right, like this is a thing that's important to me. None of them have ever like liked it as much as everyone's feel like, yeah, it's fine, Like I don't see the and I'm like it, but the soundtrack's good as well, and they're like, yeah, so I know there's only one Rose Matafao who's now a superstar, Like you know, the

Oh, people, I'm sure it has come up. I'll have to try to track it down. I've got we have to come up with a list, I think a spreadsheet everybody's favorite films, so I can have access to it straight away, because I it certainly come up in people's

Yes, now, surely someone support this.

This has come up. This has come up. I love Scorsese.

For some reason, I didn't love the part of as much as I thought I was going so many elements to it that should absolutely works.

It's said in Boston. It's got great act years and I liked it.

I hated the last shot of the movie. Oh really, yeah, the rat. I didn't like the rat now well on the nose.

I mean it's it's really like, you know when there's like subtext in you know, when you see a comedy show and you're like, there's a subtext and the and they just say, so that show.

Was about my man's there. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, well, yeah, we picked up on that. You didn't have to say that at the end.

Yeah, it's been I thought it's a bit heavy headed. But I mean I and I watched it not that long ago again and I enjoyed, Like I'm not, and I'm not surprised it comes up as people's favorite films. I was so excited. It might have been an expectation thing. Yeah, I look at all these magical pieces in this one film. I was looking forward to seeing it. I liked it. I just didn't love it as much as I thought.

Yeah, well that's interesting. I watched it probably once a year. I'll rewatch it. And I just remember the first time I watched it, I was probably I don't know, seventeen or and just like my mind was like I'd never had been like that hooked and then been like like felt like the plot had just turned on its head at the end, and we're like.

All that stuffs happened. That's crazy.

And it was like all these cool men and I was like a young man and they're just like shooting guns or whatever and like tricking people. I was like, this is unbelievable. There was so much in it for me, just a feast on and so now I think it's another trip down memory late, but also I think it but there's a few scenes that don't hold hold up.

I really love films where like the detail, you know, whatever, they it's just whatever they're shipping in.

They keep it simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I can keep it simple, Yeah, exactly.

Don't now people need to make things knowing that it will date so quickly.

I remember in the eighties on bombs were always a big thing, like yeah, yeah, I have no idea what bombs.

I still don't know what they are. I have a friend that works in like finance, and I had to get her to explain them to me, and it still didn't really nah, check out. But there's a lot going on and it's kind of dated, but it is, like, man, there's some great performances in there. Mark Wahlberg, who I think sucks as an actor, he was great in it, and like, you know, Jack Nicholson is crazy in it. But yeah, I mean it is probably a bit heavy handed by I think that's what I love about it.

Oh, I mean it's you know, I mean those scenes when everything goes pair shape and everyone's getting you know, you know killed.

Yeah, it's crazy.

It is crazy, and I can never have never been able to quite put my finger on why I don't think.

This is a classic.

Well I'm hapy to accept it as a classic, but in my head that it hasn't reached that status.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Well, not to go back to the girlfriend test, but my current girlfriend the part of on the first date, Oh, I know, but I probably six months in I was like, do you want to watch this? And she's like yeah, And she grew up in Argentina, so she's like there's a lot of like pop culture gaps that she has, like she came to Australa when she was twelve, that I have that. I like try to show her. She falls asleep like ten minutes into the department and she's like,

No, it's actually the part is based on the jet. It's actually Chinese. I think it's Infernal Affairs.

Oh okay, so it's Chinese.

Yeah, I think so.

Well, so then he went so he showed his girlfriend the Chinese version and then she's like, well this is very cultured and nix so we're watching a foreign film. Watched it and loved it. So then in his head he never told her that, but in his head He's like that was a win. She did like.

That could end up. That could end up in divorce. It could be cash Mean versus Kash Cashman. Well, let's tat it about.

Kramer versus kram In nineteen seventy nine, directed and written by Robert Benton from a novel from Avery Corman, starring of course, Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Street Sam Tauton.

Who did you like it? I loved it?

I thought it was great? Can I say so? We're recording this the last weekend of comedy festival. I'm not sure your timeline.

But what a time?

This what a time to watch this one.

I didn' actually think, fuck, I hope this film hasn't ruined the end of your festival.

Like I'm like at the end, I'm like, my body is breaking down. I'm so tired, I'm so emotional, like anything gets me. I haven't seen my girlfriend for weeks. And then we put this and I was just like watching it, just like having a canit. I was like, this is the heaviest movie. It felt like the heaviest

Watch because you have history of divorce in your family. Well, my parents got divorced really young.

Yeah, right, But I don't feel like that that really because I mean I was too young really to even know what was going on, right, But like, I mean, I've been through breakups, you know, I know the pain.

You know.

I didn't feel for the kid who cares. I was more like I was like Dustin and Merril, you're good to get. Like they're so hot as well, Like they're young at their peak, they're so attractive. I'm like, you guys can make this work.

Come on, it's it's it's it's.

Well, let's have a listen to the opening scene because it really sets up a lot well, obviously the plot of the movie, but and what we're about to be watching, but it sets up so many things that are so good about this movie. So this is where Meryl Streep's Joever is announcers to Ted he's come home and you've got a promotion.

He's pretty happy.

He's making a quick phone call as she's telling him that she's leaving him.

Please, I'm sorry.

Now, don't don't make me go in there. Please, please don't make me go in there. Don't make me go in there.

If you do, I swear one day, next week, maybe next year.

I don't know.

I go right out the window.

I'm not taking in with me. I'm not good for him.

I'm terrible with you.

I have no patience.

He's better off without me.

Trum, please, and I don't love you anymore.

It's a kicker.

Oh, that's because that's early in the movie. That's what have you done?

Yeah, it's really it's basically the second scene we see the opening scenes. It's a lovely shot of Meryl Street saying goodbye to her. Somebody that really know exactly what's going on in the context.

Yet.

Then we go to Ted's office and he's talking about buying a jacket or something or whatever, and he's being you know, feed up on the desk, kind of do she kind of advertising exec you know, corporate world gets the promotion, goes out with his bus and then and then comes home to that so there's some stuff that goes on in the apartment, then it goes out.

Into the corridor, so the hallway.

I assume you've seen the movie obviously if you're listening to this, But when she says, don't make me go back, she's talking about the apartment, but yes, but what is when when? So when she says I'm leaving you, do you have thoughts? Because my head certainly went to, oh, he's had an affair or like there's like, you know, there's you know, there's a real reason he's fucked up

Well, look, I think they had given us enough information with him being at work and being like, you know, busy at work or whatever. But also that's such a like you know, just like almost like a corny easy plot line to be like, oh he works too much and yeah, you know it doesn't you know, give his family enough attention or whatever. But I felt like as

Oh, it's such a strong start.

And at the time and also break up time, like like doesn't often says Ted says, way, you really know how to pick your moments. And what I love about this scene is is you can understand both.

Points of view totally.

Like you can understand that he's going, hey, I just I've been working really hard and before the you know, for the family.

Yeah, and like like it can come off, you know, you can come off.

As a bit asshole, you know, but if you actually put it in his frame of mind, it's like he's come home to celebrate with youse promotion. Whatever we're aiming for the next thing of life is probably gonna happen now, you know. And I'm about to tell you and this is this is what you're telling me. So in his headspace, I understand that. But when when she kind of says this is like she takes ownership of it. This is me,

Yeah, And in.

Meryl Streep's character Joan and never blames that you know it's about her. And this is in nineteen seventy nine. The idea I imagine, like a woman leaving well, her husband and leaving the child.

Well, that's what I because like that whole thing of like you're not really feeling sorry. I feel like the whole you're not even though I would say Dustin Hoffman's character is probably more the protagonist, like he's probably the

I completely agree.

I write it down that it's a weirdly progressive film, which is really progressive moment.

So he's that it's Christmas. Even he just kisses a random woman. Well, that's way fair.

We'll get to that.

Hears of kissing on the way out. He gets the job and he ends up kissing. It seems like a random just a random girl who happens to be in real life a form of Miss Norway had a playboy pet. I'm not sure if it doesn't hapen just grabbed an extra on the way out.

That's so funny, that's amazing.

Definitely his idea, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, well when you're Dustin ni can but his decision.

Probably not happening on the set in twenty twenty ten.

But also like, yeah, what you say is absolutely true as far as he's been nine seventy nine, and where how this would have been viewed, And also the term I'm not sure if the term mental health had been coined, And now we look through it and kind of go, yeah, I understand it, like, go, I can see your struggle, you know, play out in front of me now.

But you do need to go and find help and whatever you need and this is what's best for you.

Go do that.

H Yeah. But watching in nineteen seventy nine, there would have been men in the cinema just facking furious.

You're like, well, it's like they couldn't like now, like footy players take a week off because they've got mental health issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's how far we're come, do you know what I mean? Like back then, the idea of a man being like I need to talk to someone, or even like I feel like ladies in that situation needing to talk to Like it just wouldn't. You wouldn't speak about these things. You get married to

And this this film never over dramatize it consider its drama. Like the details and it's the ordinariness of what they go through and the impact divorce will have on the friends and work. Yeah, like the fact that we never know when Dustin Hoffman brings home a woman, you know, and very funny scene you know, when she's naked like that doesn't get played out to be like traumatic for the kid.

Not at all.

And I thought that was such a nice choice as well, because there was not the big scene where he had to sit down and be like, well, you know, she's a friend and yeah.

Yeah, it was great.

They just had like a nice moment of realness and then moved on, which is probably the reality of what would happen when your kid is seven years old or whatever. They would be like, oh, there's a lady in my house. Yeah, and then you'd move on with it.

Before we move on, I just want to point out the breakup scene. There's something else had happened kind of in the production and Dustn't Hoffan apparently not a great dude during the making of this film and a bit notorious, a bit notoriously difficult on sets. So when he makes TUTSI after a couple of years after this, and it was almost an in joke that he was playing this difficult actor.

So and he he would do things like with Meryl Streep. This is Meryl Streep's first film, so.

First all the clues were there that she was going to be in the go and in fact, that scene was the first scene she shot.

Oh my god, and in the first scene of the first movie she's ever shot.

In the first take Dustin Hoffman slapshirt, which is not in the script, oh my god, and that became like that was a fucking oh yeah, what what the was that? So they got to a weird start. But what's interesting to me is I don't think Dustin Hoffman with me say this understood the fucking scene if that's what he was doing, because what's great about.

His character for him to do that exactly.

That's what's so.

Great about that scene. And I think what makes this film so timeless, and I think it's actually dates really well outside of a couple of things we'll get to, is that both I think both characters act with dignity.

Yes one hundred and they both hold themselves. And that kind of goes back to my point is that you're never like it's not like you're being like, I hope this side wins or I hope this side's wins. It's more just like an incredible You're just watching a marriage or a relationship dissolve basically, and it's just sad, is what it is. Because they do for him to stop her. It's like that completely misrepresents what his cut, which is a man who is grappling, working hard, trying to do

And also that comes up in the corporate seedings later on. They totally that when they outline everything.

Does he drink? Does he has he ever been abusive?

You know?

He sent me in seeing one yeah, so and then and then it's nice. I like, you know, he wakes up in the morning, he said, his son Billy one of the all time great child performances. Like I mentioned in the intro, youngest acted to be nominated for an oscar you can win it, but incredible, still the youngest to this day. He doesn't flush. Did you know what to say? Oh, it doesn't flush, which may have been the reason Joanah left. I think this underlying you.

Put the trauma on the kid. I think maybe you flushed the toilet, you would have stayed around.

I think you may have started COVID to be honest.

But the French past scene is I think it's it seems like, you know, it'd be easy to write this off as an easy scene to write and having there and it's a bit of you know, possible high jinks. But it's a really important scene because it shows well, it shows that he's he's going to try to.

Keep things positive.

You know, he's going to try to adopt you know, the more paternal role because he's been maybe a little bit absent with through work. But it shows the biggest thing. It shows that he's trying. And we've spoken about this podcast. It's so important. We love characters who try.

Yes.

As soon as a character stops trying, it's like, oh fuck, I can't be bother man.

I tried. I made him to get to the cinema to worry.

Yeah, yeah, i'd put on I hit the button on Netflix. I don't mind.

You need to try to try. Well.

I think it's a great scene as well also because it kind of looked like nothing really I've seen before, like a real fumbling of like him trying to make French toast to make breakfast through his kid, and it kind of was like it felt like, yeah, he's going to try it, which is great, like I want to see him try, but also he doesn't really know what

Yeah. Yeah, and the.

Frustration bursts, you know obviously when he burns the French toast and you should have realized probably sooner than smell on the sizzle, but it bubbles over and it's it's a lovely see because yeah, he's trying and he is like his wife's left him, and he doesn't I think at that stage though, he still believes it's not over and she'll be coming back, so he.

Should because like, yeah, I mean, all we've seen at this point was they had a fight and she left, So you wouldn't think it's over forever.

Yeah, And they do let out the detail I think.

I think when he talks to his boss who will get the bos in the second, I'm not sure if he gets through the pandemic to be honest that, yeah, I mean, some choices he's made. I'm not sure if yeah, you're allad at the sack people because what.

Yeah, I reckon, that's not on.

I'm not sure if he's allowing people to work at home during the pandemic. He's not going to set up a home office.

But he does mention that this has come up before, like this this idea that she'll come back and you know that, you know she's had these things, but.

We've gone through this before. But it'll be fine.

But yeah, he does get that letter though, and it's a strange choice when he decides to read it blindly out loud to the kidder.

I don't think I've ever done that before.

Yeah, I mean, I guess they needed to do it to advance plot cinematically. Of course it makes sense because he needs to you're not going to read it out loud to yourself, so of course he just traumatizes the poor cher Like I mean, we're talking about, you know, like inherent childhood trauma. That think as if your dad reading out the letter of why she left, like at the moment, you wouldn't realize anything when you're twenty five

And then there was one scene actually it was a very quick scene where he goes and picks him up from a party. This is like just starting the show that you know, the compromises he has to make for work. And what was interesting for me is Billy when he yet said Billy's are sitting on a seat near the door. It's like, obviously the birthday boy is completely given up on him.

It's kid.

Do you remember going to parties ever where even a sleepover where either you were going to sleep or you had people over where you just got completely over each other.

By the time I remember going to sleepovers, and I'd get to like, you know'd get to eight pm and I'd be like, you know, I'm ready to go to sleep and I'd be like, no, call my parents to

So do you call my parents?

You call my mom, please preferably on her landline, if that's possible.

I do, yeah, that that that will make a lot of memories to me. The sorry.

And then Joanna, So did you expect I assume you expected Joanna to return? I assume you, well, if she was going to.

I mean, if it's one, I mean all I've probably because all I've heard about the film. Because that's the other thing with this film, pet is that, like I reference this film in conversation a lot to people, Like people will be like, oh, divorce are like yeah, like creamer, that's cream Like because I've heard movie buffs talk about it quite a lot. So it's like, I'm like, oh, I did I did know some stuff that it's so I knew she was coming back.

Did you do that with soviets choice as well, cople A lot people do it with so choice, a real choice choice.

I'm not sure I do it with like music, I do it with so much stuff that I haven't consumed, but I've consumed that the talking points around that thing, I just spit it back out to people. Well, it makes me sound more interesting, I do.

I do think.

And we've speke about divorce being the Zeas and the film, I feel like, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, if anyone listening knows, but at Yasney podcast at gmail dot com. But this feels like the first film that like really centered on divorce and took divorce seriously. I wasn't going to get distracted by other things going on. There's no real violence in this film. There's no there's no sex, there's nothing.

There's so little in it. I can't says how little. It's just like domestic duties and like some heated arguments, that's all this is film, Like to make it spring to life from the page is incredible.

Yea, the highest grossing film. So Joanna, it turns in the window like it's like in a horror movie.

It's staring at her kid.

That was one part where I'm like, I don't know, Like I mean, I guess you would do I mean, you would do that if you wanted to see your son then you've been estranged or whatever. But yeah, it's just like she's there, just in the window, just staring at all.

I felt like it made like a horror sting, some kind of you know, accordion or and then the movie takes a real weird Yeah, well it could have easily gone that way. Billy falls in the in the park and and this is it's important because Ted when they when he meets and we'll get to the meeting with him and Joanna soon, he kind of blames himself, yes, you know, and that comes up in the corpus stings later on. But the stunts was interesting because Billy seems to fall and land on his right cheek. And I

Mean, it looks like the most seventies thing I've ever seen in like you don't really know what's going on. It's like the camera's moving like yeah.

And it's and it it feels like maybe this is why the rest of the film is a bit talky and a kind of because maybe Robert bend how to shoot action. Because he lands is a rock. I think he lands on lands something like that. But he seems to land on his right cheek, but the blood straight away is on his left.

And if you watch the wells he falls to, I want to say, he falls to his right, is that correct? And then lands yes, down and then you're right, and then doesn't off carrying him like running down the street, and there's blood streaming down.

The ason as soon as he lands on the on the side facing up, yeah, which seems to me unless he's hit something else going down there was like.

Maybe someone threw a rock at him as his mid fall or something and maybe Joe, yeah, maybe Joan from the window broke.

And then said you fell, you fall, Yeah, you're a bad far. I think we've cracked on the open. This is a sequel.

Johanna's a Bitch's.

A horror film. There's a horror film. Some good running.

Great running, because like, what's the child's characters name, Billy Billy, Billy is not that small.

No, he's eight years old.

He's eight years old and doesn't Hoffman, who's not a big man either. He's got him under his arm, just sprinting through New York traffic in like at full belt, full full belt.

Gibson and crews get a lot of kudos for their running and they slide over cars or there's no sliding over cars here.

I granted that it wouldn't great to see that going not missing a beat, but I think Be said that last time took everything out of me. I'm I'm not shooting another one.

He's like, we don't have the budget.

So and he's running. Use a dollars. It's actually the act.

It's him.

Yeah, and he's running and he's big, he's big. It looks big.

It's uncomfortable.

Yeah, and I assume I assumed there's a dolly shot like the cameras.

It's pretty steady sometimes back in the seventies there with this jump in the car and just hold yeah, but I think you'll see a bit more wobble than you Actually, it's pretty steady.

Pretty steady, they probably popped it on a dolly. But I mean he did run for a while. It's a lot like he would have have to been like maybe one hundred metes long or something.

He does good running. He doesn't get the credit. He's a good running He runs at a wedding in the graduate as well.

Yeah right, I mean he is in good I always think he's in good shape. He's got a physique which I quite like Dustin Hoffman. It's like short but like but like built but not muscly. Does that make sense?

Yeah?

Absolutely, he he.

Doesn't like he's such a good actor, and this is him that he's probably the peak of his powers. You know, it's disappointing to hear the stories that he wasn't great Meryl strip he was going through He almost didn't do this film because he.

Was going through a messy divorce.

Can you imagine then doing it, Yes, like that would be terrible.

But he said that it was actually quite therapeutic because he could get a lot of it out and he actually.

Helped, like this, tweak the script to make it feel more real.

That's so funny. Here I was thinking he was a great actor. He's just actually just playing.

Just turn the camera on, it'll come out, don't worry.

And then Meryl Streep, she dated John Gazal who missed it one. I'm going to start calling him because he's potentially the only actor in the world. You know, he's made more than one or two films that has a one hundred percent strike rate with his films. Yeah, so he makes five films and they are the Godfather films one and two plays Fredo, the Conversation, Dear Hunter and Dog They afternoon.

That's crazy, that's insane.

Yeah, he dies after he makes a Deer Hunter. He was dating Meryll Street was also in a Deer Hunter.

Yeah.

Yeah, so she was still grieving him. She was in a weird space as well. So this is what you do. People die around.

Yeah, bring the bring your trauma to work kids. But what one thing Hoffman will do to elicit emotion out of Meryl.

Street besides slapping her.

Besides slapping her, Hopefully the director took him a son and maybe less slapping. I know it's you can't do that, and you know, and you know it doesn't happen. Doesn't realize that it's Meryl Streep he's dealing with. Yet, Yes, of course that's the other thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like but what he would do was someone's go up to her and whispered John Czel's name. Yeah, that's crazy.

That's worse than the slap, that's what. Yeah, that's like psychological warfare.

It's full on.

But I guess his argument that that would get her, I know, And we've spoken.

A bit about this on the podcast. The Shining is example where they would you know, Kubrick could mess with Shelley, you know, like and to the point where it's like fun, this is what it's like, and it's like just.

Hide the actors who can do the job well.

Actors and directors. I think they hide behind the thing that they're like crazy artistic and they need to do this stuff to get the best performances out of people or themselves or whatever. But it's also like you're still at work, you know what I mean. Maybe it's okay, I don't know, but like whispering your dead the dead partner's name in someone's ear is like horrible. Although she did win an Academy Award, she win.

They both they both say they both win the Oscars for Best Actor Hoffman and Best Supporting actress Meryl Street when he gets to the hospital. This is something that has an age terribly. But it was a bit weird when the doctor says, you can't be in the wrong. I think have been doctor? Are you a pedophile? Just tell me that I'll get another doctor, because why can't I be in the room?

We might ches.

It's not like I thought the like birth was the only thing that used to be like, you can't come in stitches.

It's like, what do you care if he sees the stitches opening him up? Yeah, you could do the stitches yourself.

Probably let him be I guess again they wanted to see Hoffman get angry and be like he's my son or whatever. But surely in the seventies you could still watch someone get stitches, like that's they used to just I mean, that's the seventies. But like before they used to just make you eat some wood, have a shot of whiskey, and they would saw your leg off if you like how to cut anyone was allowed to watch that. Yeah, and then what they moved into not being able to see stitch.

It's like, come on, crazy, we need to be better. They meet.

They meet finally, Joanna calls and this this feels like the scene we were waiting for. We knew it was going to happen. What did you What did you like about it?

What didn't you like?

When so they're at the rest of the restaurant, get the restaurant.

I liked it.

I liked I liked how it started. They were very friendly, and I thought that is that is true of how you would kind of be if you hadn't seen someone for fifteen months that you were very close with and you shared a child like and they were both kind of unexpected. They were kind of like not sure of what was going to happen, at least Hoffman especially, I feel like he was more excited.

I feel like his mind was open to what could potentially hold to the point where it's just her coming back.

Yes, And the way she was like quite excited and felt open as well. When she sat in that You're like, oh, maybe it's going to be a reconciliation. But then her, I mean, she's so brilliant in this sea and she's like, oh, I had some I had stuff planned I wanted to say, And it slowly becomes apparent that she is there to say the worst thing possible like that he could ever hear like truly, She's like, I'm here to take Billy. I want custody, And it's like the exact it's like

It's like it's like a coming of age film in a way, but it doesn't halfman coming of age. But he's learning how to parent. They are such they're so tight. It's like when Meryl Street comes back. This isn't a basketball analogy. It'd be like if Kyrie Irving said next year, I'm going back to Boston and Boston be like, no, but we're good now.

Actually know Fingerscus, we won the championship. What he do? We don't know what?

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Let's have a listen to that. See Meryl Streep doesn't Hoffman, don't try to bully me.

I'm not getting defensive. Who will gone to the house fifteen?

I don't care.

I am still his mother.

Yes.

From three thousand Miles away, and just because you sent a few polsecodes, it gives you the right to come back here.

Never stop wanting him.

What makes you so sure he wants you?

What makes you so sure he doesn't want me?

Okay, look we're going to sit here in back this back and forth like it works for eight years, makes it's like all times.

Well, you can't deny met tell me about what I can or cannot do.

Don't talk to me that way.

I don't want to get out. You're going to have to do it. You're going to have to do it. I'm going to have to do it.

I'm very sorry about this because just do what you.

Have to do.

So another fun fact that glass smash was improvised and Meryl Strep had no idea it was going to happen.

It was a good it caught my eye the glass because from it was the quickest backhand like glass smack I've ever seen. I was like, it did seem like it was instinctive.

Yeah, And so he told the cinematographer I think maybe the director you as well, So that he was he was at the table and the cinematographer was like this, like course this like moving his hand, let me be close a little bit, so he's telling you where to place it so you wouldn't hit Meryl Streep. What I've noticed, which i've actually and I've watched a few people talk about, including Meryl Streep and and and Dustin Hoffman talk about

Yeah, he's all of a sudden, not a celebratory.

He's quite shaky though as well in the whole thing with his hands moving around.

Yeah.

So he moves a glass away almost towards towards myew Street with the center of the table, and then he kind of about a beat later, he takes it back and places it closer to him, closer to the edge. And I can only assume it's actually it's actually Dustin Hoffmann as opposed to Ted realizing either glass needs actually be over here.

Oh totally, yeah, it's I'm about to do.

It's like when you're doing stand up and you're forgotten the next bit, and then you're doing the bit and you're like trying to think about how you can link to whatever. Yeah, he would have been doing the scene and being like, oh shit, I need to smash that glass.

Yeah back, So, like I do, remains in character. And she has been so generous with talking about this, like she doesn't deny there was some stuff that she did not appreciate.

Yeah, right, so I haven't seen anything about this extra stuff about the film.

But what she says is, I've got no interest in shaming somebody who's matured, has gone on their own journey totally, you know, and like you know, it's Mel Streep, you know, if you if you know, without going down to cancel culture of the route, but Mel shows a very mature outlook on you think, yeah, because you know, it was quite shocking.

It's it's a violent act. It really is, like you know, if you don't know they have glass shatter in a war right next to you and not like.

Have I mean you can see in his psycho brain how it would have been, Like that's that'll create the realism that we need, like her being shocked about the guys shattering it's like, I'm.

Surprised that didn't come up.

And maybe because it was who knows, who knows how they if they shot it chronologically or but I wonder you hope.

It wasn't the best the slap then he's doesn't.

It's just gonna happen in every scene.

Get a break, it hit something, because it's the.

Only time we see him really act down from memory, you know, in that kind of close environment kind of way.

But I'm surprised in a way he didn't come up in court proceedings.

Well, no, he does lose or that the glass. Ye, yeah, you're totally right. He does get angry in the court proceedings, but that's it. Like when he smashed the glass. It did come. It's like so out of character for him, because he does get angry a few times, but he

Yeah.

Absolutely, And that's because it was improvised. Maybe when they you think they filmed.

The corp proceedings before.

Yeah, it explains why it wasn't if that's a scripted moment, you know. Yeah, Ted smashes glass, you know, and walks out. Then I think when you're writing that, you're kind of thinking, well, this should actually yeah, yeah, yeah.

It should play a Oh that's so interesting to the point.

And this is to the point where also like that's what a slap doesn't doesn't make sense, you know, like I think the glass does, because.

I think the glass really works slashing.

I think it's a month of feeling of being abandoned in a way, yeah, you know, and and then getting the phone call. He's he's clearly there in a good mood. Everyone will have their own interpretation. My interpretation is that he thinks this is the potentially getting the family.

Back to I feel like it is as well. The way he comes in and like he's almost like talking like a little schoolboy, like he's very excited. He's like, good does it hell? You know, and they're like both giggling it feels that way, and it's really set up so for it to end that way with the glass smashing, it's like just zeroed a hundred, like just bottoming out.

Yeah, and it's it's you know, comes up in this podcast a bit like in every scene really, I think McKeith talks about you should have, like if you have like a positive emotion going into a scene. So everyone's like, if you look at it, doesn't Hoffin's perspective, He's feeling positive at the end of this scene.

By the end of that scene. It should always happen in every scene.

You want a negative you wanted a negative emotion, yeah, emotional energy, and this is like a prime example of that. Oh exactly. Yeah, it's so good. Then we get to the court case. We know it's coming.

He goes all the job stuff, he gets fired.

It's so weird when he gets fired.

Yeah, let's have a listen a ted getting fired. You don't know how badly I feel.

I've been getting a lot of pressure from the guys upstairs, and there wasn't anything else I could do.

A listen.

I thought about this a lot, and it's really better this way. I mean, if I was to take away your stripes. If I was to put you on some schlock account, you'd hate it. You'd hate me for doing it to you. This way, it's a clean break. And believe me, that's the best thing.

You know that my wife is just fighting me from custard. You know that we're going to court. Do you know what my chances are? I'm not I'm one of a job.

Yeah. Look, I understand that you're ever said.

I mean, I'm god sinks.

I don't want to beg I'm asking you please as a friend.

Huh, ted I'm asking you.

You're an extremely bright guy.

You really are.

You gonna hell up a talent. You're gonna be okay, You're gonna land on your feet. You're gonna survive, Teddy. Look, I may be a little shorter cage, No big worry about paying us back.

Shame on you.

Again handling himself with dignity.

He did, yeah, spastically. And there's a lot of glasses on the table and that, Yeah, they're all drink red wine. There's water glasses.

He had the opportunity.

It's also like he storms out at the end of that scene. And I was thinking about it because I've never been fired like face to face, which would be I'm sure it's a hell of an experience, but he doesn't offer to pick up the tab or in any way be like, so should we split this?

He gets stormed out, which would kind of it feels.

So powerful to do it would be a great comedic moment. Though if the boss said as doesn't hoff one.

Was walking out ted. It turns around, should we split this?

Do you want to try? I can pick it up if you transfer me, we'll just it.

You had to.

Because the scene starts with him saying about this funny moment and how cute, and he said, if you put on weight that it's gone to your noose, and and the boss is not is this not well, it's.

The previous scene. It just is like and we're just going down, just ending in another low point.

Absolutely, and yeah, the boss, this idea of the boss is going you hate it. You know I'm doing you a favor. You hate it so well, No, because I'm getting a divorce, I need a job. So if you need to put me into it, into another area, I'm happy to do that. Yeah, that was one of the things. And it works, it doesn't disrupt the movie. But that was one of the things if when I think about it, it's like, this could have been worked out potentially. I think now it would have been worked out.

I mean, it's hard, a lot hard to de fire someone in twenty twenty two, especially in a big organization. You get repositioned and you know there's mediation and there's an HR. You don't just get taken the lunch and they're like, yeah, I'm not enjoying you spending more time with your sons. So you're like, it's crazy just to fire him without any reason except being like, I'm not liking your current vibe. Really, but anyway, Yeah, it did it kind of I guess needed to happen for the film.

Yes, so it helps the court. And there's that courtroom line where he says, you're the only person taking a climbing the ladder.

Climbing the ladder taking a pay cut cut.

Yeah, yeah, let's go to the court case. There's some fine work going on. So Meryl Streep stood in just the best's the best?

She's great.

Do you think she's the greatest actor? About like you know, of our lifetime.

Well, not having seen her in this, like obviously I thought it was great, but then I was like blown away by that because she's not in it as much as Dustin Hoffmann. He's kind of really the same, and he's brilliant in this as well, but it's like every scene she is in, even with him, she dominates that. It's like you can't look away. And it's like the range she can show emotion is like maybe unlike anyone else,

Yeah, and the way she releases words in it from her mouth, she the pausing.

That's a great way to describe it, the release, because that's what it is. Like I've done a bit of acting, not as much as you, and I'm horrific at it. But it's like the decisions you have to make about how you want to save something. You think you just say it, you'd be like, oh, I'm leaving you, but there's like so much you have to kind of consider, and yeah, you're right. The release of the words is is and the way she does it is beautiful and on point every time.

Well, that restaurant scene where she doesn't have and he's waiting, yeah, you know, it's probably the best example of he's waiting for her to say I'm coming back, and she said I want my son back. Yeah, you know, like, oh, it wasn't the words, it was the fucking gaps between the words. So she she believed, so take any mind. Kramer Versus Kramer is directed by a man, written by a man, based on a novel by a man.

Fella male producers, a male.

And two men discussing it right now and two men discussing it.

We cannot get away from it. So Meryl Street believed that Joanna was the villain in this piece of the weight was written.

So she.

She kind of stepped in particular in this court scene. She stepped in and said, I her thing was, the audience doesn't really get to hear from Joanna in her own words, why she why she left. She's just kind of villainized and so and they all had a meeting, her Benton and Dustin Hoffman, and she put her case forward and Robert Benton said, and doesn't oft't had a slightly different kind of.

Take on it.

I can't imagine.

Yeah, thankfully there's no glass and there's not another person in the room. So they all went off and wrote their own monologue for this song.

Really that's great, and Street thankfully won.

So what we hear and let's have a listen to her Meryl Streep's court room in the in the in the not I guess the witness box.

She's on the stairs, on the stand's whatever.

That's probably not the stair.

That's probably the stand. I think, I think the stand.

We'll call it a stand.

We want the stand. And then this was written by Meryl Street.

I'm not saying he doesn't need his father, but I really believe he needs me more. I was his mummy for five and a half years, and Ted took over that role for eighteen months. But I don't know how anybody can possibly believe that I have less of a steak in mothering that little boy than mister Cramer does. I'm his mother.

I'm his mother so good. So yeah, and it's not flowery like she could have gone away.

Well, I would love to kind of read what happened, came up with it could have been so flowering, over the top, hawkish, but she just keeps it.

It's so real.

It's so real. It's just actually the emotion coming out being like whatever you want to say. It's like, this is my case. I'm his mother of this kid.

Yeah, and what's so good about the whole film And we've mentioned a couple of times, but it's worth repeating during this court case is that they're both you feel for both of them. It's a horrible situation. I've never been through a divorce. My parents are still together.

Must be nice.

Oh, earlier you were like, I got over rolls.

For forty five minutes, you're gonna whisper my dad's name in my ear?

But yeah, so it I I I lost my train of thought.

You've never been through a divorce, but to see it play out, yeah, the.

Seat play out like it's it's painful.

I remember, you know, I'm sure you won't mind me saying, like a friend, you know, Lawrence Mooney he said to me he'd been through it, and he said ours was pretty, you know, pretty amicable, you know, but even when the amicable circumstances, it's fucking awful.

It's so painful.

Well, that's the thing, and this is why, I mean, they don't seem to hate each other. And I think that audio you just played, there's a series of I mean, the first half of that speech, she says something and Dustin Hoffman Mount's mouth something back to her on the stand and says, yeah, I can't remember what, but I think it says it's not your fault.

I think I think that. I think that happens when she's been cross examined and she's been thrilled and they're like, you know, are you a bad mother?

Yeah? And he's like, you know, saying no, yeah you're not.

And that that the fact they handle themselves with so much dignity and the fact that you can absolutely see both sides, both points of view, is what makes this movie, I think, timeless, and I imagine why it was the highest grossing film.

Yeah, exactly.

And the whole thing about the villain, about Meryl Streep's character being played at the villain, it's like, I don't think, definitely in the first half you could make the argument because she's so absent, and she needs to be absent, because that's how you create the realism. But it's like, you know, you could argue towards the end that she's actually the hero of the film.

Yeah, well absolutely yeah, And we'll get to that very soon, because let's have listened to also Ted on the Stand, one of the original Ted Talks.

Yes, that's why you got all right, Thanks God, that's good. I'm out of here. Well done. Let's have listened to Ted on the Stand.

You know, I have a lot of time think about what does it make somebody a good parent?

You know.

It has to do with constancy.

It has to do with with with patience.

It has to do with listening to him, has to do with pretending to listen to him when you can't even listen anymore. It has to deal with love like like like like she was saying. And I don't know where it's written, it says that a woman has has a corner on that market, that a man has any less of those emotions than than a woman does. Billy has a home with me. I made it the best I could. It's not perfect. I'm not a perfect parent.

But I'm there.

I get up in the morning and then we eat breakfast, and he talks to me, and then we go to school, and at night we have dinner together and we talked inn and I read to him, and.

We built a life together and we love each other. I mean, it's sold, it's great.

Did he write that one as well?

But also I mean he may have because he, uh, as I mentioned earlier, contributed to the scripts basically his own experiences. And I feel I feel like he's lawyer let him down a little bit, or maybe the court let him down.

Because the reason.

Billy ends up, we'll joining a wins custody of Billy really comes down to that playground. That's how you made the feel and so also, but also not just that, the fact that he lost his job recently.

Yes, and he starts turning. I've also looked up how much because they were like thirty grand or something.

They're early Yeah, so he was on about twenty grand apparently that's.

About one hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars today.

That's right.

I mean, they're doing it all right.

They're doing all right.

Yeah, it's not like they're maybe they should get back together, back.

Together double double that income, three hundred grand a year. You could maybe buy a house in Sydney.

How much will that apartment in New Y'll be worth? Now? Oh yeah, tell that Cramer's get this ship together.

Come on, Cramer.

But I feel like, like, surely.

That's an easy cross examine the idea that he's on a lower paying wage. Now, yes, only by about three thousand dollars, which is probably ninety thousand dollars.

That yeah, it's two million dollars, two million dollars.

But surely to make the argument is a simple argument to make he took a lower wage to look after his son.

Well, that's what I slam dunking court.

Yeah, Instead they flipped that being like you're a bad parent because you and he didn't even rebuttle with being like, no, I got to.

Be kicking the lawyer in machins.

Gun get up up there and tell them that I did it because I'm a better parent. Yeah, I think that the progressiveness thing. I just thought about this and then coming through listening back to that audio, it's like him using the point is like, I don't know where it says that a man can't be as good a parent as like, I mean, you know, in this world we live in now of like gender being more of a concept and on a sliding scale or whatever. It is so ahead of its time to be now talking

Yeah, and the scene where we played the first see me play the ice cream scene be a little ship, by the way, I mean, I love that equinum a little shit because I was just one of my kids. Of course, I remember being in we went traveling and

Let's just get in it out. We're bothering everybody. Let's just get in and out.

I love that you feel that way, because that's how I feel when people bring them. Well, I'm like, can you not burden us all in this tiny cafe with your life choices? Well, you know what I encourage.

I encourage people to not feel flustered.

I was wrong to feel flustered if I had kids now with my life experience, now I'd go in and fucking be a boss.

About it, you know what.

You know what, Yeah, I've got a kid and he's carrying on airplanes. So what you've got noise canceling headphones to put them on?

Yeah, but I mean it's just life. Yeah, just exactly.

So I you're the most annoing guys, embrace my screaming child. It's your problem, not mine.

But that's not how I was, by the way, But now my kids are actually teenagers that they generally aren't pissing people off in the small adults in the restaurant.

So it was in a bit of a moon that day, and we tried everything.

We tried everything, you know, from you know, kind of some stern words, you know, across the table, to giving him the eye.

I call it the death grip, you know, where you get their hands smack anhim.

We just hold their hand, give a little twist and get your thumb and it's like buried into It's like you know, and the people.

At the table next public.

That's fine because people at the next table, they think, look at those why why don't we hold hands at the.

Table like the family next to us.

So just upgrade to a Chinese burden.

China. Chinese burnt still happened.

I don't know, but they were big when I was Yeah, I mean I never got one from a parent.

But when you start getting hair in your arms, oh really, no good.

So I got to the point where I had taken down an alleyway in crack out this cobble stone, and they.

Said, mate, you are giving me the fucking ships. You gotta fucking stop it. You're acting like a little ass.

That's good.

And he and I may have only dropped the one F bomb, but look on his face a shot, look at his face? If it worked?

You do you swear in front of Well, when they were younger, did you swear.

In front of the No?

No, not a whole bunch. So this was quite shocking, yeah to them. But there certainly been times with myself and my wife had like you know, called them like a little ship or anything.

Like that where we've been. So at the end of our tether a.

Little ship, I came, I was a little ship as well. It's like whatever I got, I deserved.

Like, yeah, I had no issue with smacking, like like like in my being smacked as a kid, like there's no trauma.

Oh yeah, I got associated with wooden spoon. It's broken on my.

Well, I I have mad about this before. I'm not sure about it on this podcast.

But when we had Lean being oldest, he got ea cups and smacks, you know, like and then we stopped. He got to point, you know, when he was seventeen eighteen, No, but we stopped because we're like, this doesn't it's not working and it makes you feel bad. And that's that's why I love about that scene. He says he calls him a little ship, slams the door, he goes. Any fact that you know what you do when you're a parent, when you do that, you fucking go to another room

He's just getting more annoyed.

He is getting more annoyed. So and when it was older, like early kind of teenagers, I apologize for it. Oh really, yeah, I said, I said, you copt a couple of smacks, you know, it was always on the bum by.

The way, but once a day.

No, you did give him some boxing gloves.

He had a let's go to let's go to work. It's where we work things out the house or garage. So and I said, you know, for some reason, smacking kind of came up. He was in the news or it was a movie. And I said, mate, you cut a couple of smacks, you know on the bum where you do you remember?

He goes, oh, not really, and you're like, yeah, it didn't happen then, yeah, yeah, yeah, not in this house. It never did.

Or like high fives, yeah, like high fives to your bum aggressive high fives and so andy, but he appreciated. I think I mentioned because yeah, these brothers never got smacked because you know, I stopped doing it, but he was.

Yeah.

So yeah, Billy then has the choice and when he actually they go back in and they make up.

Yeah, and they had that lovely time, which is again there's all these little really progressive.

Comments on marriage, and I think it's in that scene he says something like I thought if I was happy, she was happy. Yeah, And there's there's some stuff which is like really incredible. I think I'll be married twenty years next year. And I do get to ask occasionally, like you know what sometimes in interviews it's not like friends kind of sourcing me out for it relationship advice, Pete, their relationship and when you do a seriously how to

Stuff, Pete.

What is your number one? Two?

Well, we'll tell you. I'll tell you sent on before you propose to you Argentina, your beauty.

You can ever be on auto pilot, you know, like so you always have to engage in your marriage as soon as you kind of stop thinking of the other person and then I might say there have been times that hasn't happened in my own marriage, but there haven't been the good times.

You know.

It's when you are engaging and thinking of the other person, are they happy, are they getting what they need out of this marriage? That your marriage is going to be really strong, I think, And I think he has that realization in that scene where he kind of says, you know, I was happy, So I assume she was happy, and you know, he was having a great career, and she actually hadn't really thought about this. She actually not getting

It's such a progressive thing because it is kind of like touching on what I guess was like the stereotypical relationship of the man goes to work and the woman's stay home with the kid.

But that is not what a living, breathing relationship is.

It's not. I mean, that's also great advice that he's like in that monologue to be like I thought of I was happy, she would be happy. It's like everyone should take that. It's not about it's like you both have separate lives in a relationship. But you do have to have this bit in the middle that coexists that you kind of feed into. And it's and it's more

So basically this is you say to your girlfriend, you need to watch it. At the part of the game, just give it one more juels if you listen. It's such a great movie.

They all get killed at the end. You know, you've got to watch it.

So it comes then down to uh uh, Joanna gets the rights, and which you always feel that's going to happen, is going to happen, you know, And I'm not sure what the situation is in courts, these family courts these days, but it's always traditionally the mother's always had more power as far as custody goes. So it's not unexpected that

Yeah, totally, which is really cool.

Yeah, I mean that's such a great thing to like, I mean, he will read out the letter to Billy that like, he will traumatize really to an extent. But that's where he draws a line. You can't put him on this.

He can only the kid's head so much.

Yeah, exactly, he's dropped him. He's read the letter out, but he's not going to put him on the stand.

So you never had to make did you ever made? Because I like that we don't see Billy have to make that choice. He's eight years old. I can't because that would have been an emotional scene. So you know, like, yeah, you can imagine the scene where Ted saying, who do you want to Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't you want to.

Be Well, look, my experiences of divorce, Pete, is that, like, you don't especial because I was young. I was no, I was probably like ten maybe okay old Billy, older than Billy.

Yeah, you're flushing.

I was flushing and I wasn't falling a playground aguipment, that's for sure. But I have vague memories of it. But it's like it is all it's quite separate to you, unless like there's horrible things going on, like you know, restic violence or something like that, but it was all

Yeah, I think they make some really good choices in this movie where they could have really amped up the drama.

But they didn't have to.

They didn't at all.

And it's a good lesson for any screenwriters. But so then the French toast scene play, it plays out and it's beautiful. This is what we call a callback in comedy. We would call it a callback absolutely, and it works. So the mannicness of you know, the day one of their journey. Yes, and he's there's this little touches like at the start he's putting, he's dipping the bread in a cup.

He's got the egg and the milk and to break he's got to break the bread. And now he's worked. You do it in the bowl, of course, you get a bowl, and that's how.

You make your friend's toast and it's calm, it's serene, and it's it's it's a it's a beautiful scene.

It's great, and it just you know, it shows just how far in the simplest way, it shows a full kind of progression and change and that it's like a new person and a new relationship and a comfort, comforting kind of message that things are okay. But they did it in such a simple, such a simple way.

And the and the and the look on Billy's face, justin Henry, it's it's an incredible for me. If you watch it again, let's check out the look before it when they give them it's a look of like it's almost melancholy. It's like, yeah, I'm I'm enjoying this moment, but I realized that this is the last time we're going to make French toast.

That's like the that's the vibe.

Melancholy is like the vibe of the whole film. Like I watch it and I feel that, like I don't feel sad in all the places, but I feel this will weight on me and I'm enjoying it, but it's this weight and that's like the underselling of the drama as well, Like they don't beef up any scenes, and that almost makes it more melancholy because it's so real, because in real life you don't have the big dramatic kind of moments and fights and like everything is like

And there's one last twist.

When they're waiting for Joanna to arrive to take Billy home, they're packed. It gets a call and as Johanna danstairs, asking him to come down to the for you.

What woke up this morning?

I kept thinking about Billy and I was thinking about him waking up in his room. And there's little clouds all around that I painted, and I thought I should have painted clouds downtown because.

You would think that he was waking up at home.

I came here to take my son home, and I realized he already is home.

Okay, lots of good stuff face.

It's good to the all time breaks in absolute white hot form, and and then you have there's another little callback.

Here is the elevator. Oh yeah, So we see the elevator.

In the first scene where they were she walks out and she says, I don't love you as the elevator closes on him, and this time.

Meryl Streep says Joanna says, how do I look.

She's trying to getting the tears and adjusting her makeup and he says I think he says, you look terrific.

Yeah.

He says something like, yeah, is it look terrific?

You look terrific? Yeah, and then the elevator closes on Yeah.

It's a great it's a great end to the film. Like it's because I.

Was wondering, how are they gonna stick this landing.

Well, it's a hard thing to do, and it almost you know, makes everything completely you know, like it's like what was it all worth? Do you know what I mean? But it shows that it's like for her to get to that position to be content, they had to go through all that kind of trauma and heartbreak and for her to get into the position the mindset where she is okay for Billy to live with her dad, they had to go through all of that.

Yeah, I do wonder what it does say what we're expected to take out of the fact that Johanna comes to this conclusion, is it saying I'm still not ready.

Well, no, I think it just shows. I think it shows that they are both I might be wrong here, but they both care about their son so much, and they both love their son, and they don't hate each other. Like, it's not like she has no vendetta against him, do you know what I mean? She just doesn't want to be in a relationship with him, and she wants to see her son, and she's like, oh, that's the best place for him right now. It's like a very mature response.

Yeah. I think that's a good reason.

I think if it was twenty twenty two, she would have done that speech over text message though I realized he is home, so I'm going to leave him with you, Like it would have been a quick test being like, hey, let's forget about it.

You hold onto him with an embarrassing emoji.

Yeah yeah, yeah, we'd like the emerging with your hands over your eyes.

I guess that cour case was for nothing.

Justin Henry goes on to big does a little bit of acting the only role that you may recognize.

What did he end up going on to do acting?

Here? And there? And then kind of like leave him.

But he's in sixteen Candles, Molly World's younger brother in JHU's classic sixteen Candles, so you can see him there.

But he's kind of tough for a child, you know, when you're it's like and so good.

He's like he's peaked, yeah in his first film.

Yeah, and doesn't get to like get any of the benefits, like if you peak at twenty five, you're a movie star, you get to do all the cocaine people would to have sex with you.

Apparently he that yeah, yeah, great, doesn't hop and took him under his wing. Imagine that going through a messy divorce and just hanging out with that year old coast artist.

Coke. This is how you, This is how your special glass.

Hollywood highest grossing movie in nineteen seventy nine. Have I mentioned that? No, these are the films that were released in nine and seventy nine. I mentioned I mentioned star tracking on but also just to add to that auck list, now Alien was released Mad Max.

Alien Yeah ten? Are you kidding this?

Mad ten?

It was a massive like sex comedy with Bo Derek and more. Amitiyville Horror was actually the second highest grossing film that year, Life of Brian.

Life came out.

This is a hot year.

It's a hot year being there Peter.

Sellers, who he was nominated for that that was one of the Peter Sellers's like great performances. Manhattan, Woody Allen, Meryl Street was shooting that as you was shooting this. I think that's why that's why Joe left.

Well she should have bought that up in the court proceeding was shooting work Woody Allen.

Do you know Woody Allen?

But I don't, actually don't seventy nights, so it's okay to no Woody Allen. At this point of Rocky.

Two comes out that year. Nah, and Cramer versus Crame makes more money than Rocky two.

That's insane. Also the amount that I said, well, I mean total it's made one seventy at the box office or whatever on whatever. It's tiny budget warts, that's a huge amount of money.

Huge.

The Mother movie came out that year, or that The Champ, the tear Jerk of the Champ with Rookie Schroeder.

I want to live in nineteen seventy a year to go to the movies.

Roger Benton also wrote Bonnie and Clyde and the Superman Original Superman.

Move Jesus Great.

He went on to direct Still of the Night Places in the Heart Billy Barthgate with dusn't hoff and Nicole Kim. That wasn't a big hit, that one, Nobody's Full with Paul Newman and Twilight Right for starring Paul Newman and Susan surrounding Gene Hackman.

You know that one. Haven't covered that one in the It hasn't come up hot year for Best Actor. Hoff And wins.

Peter Seller's nominated for being there, Jack Lemon, This is a really hot category, Jack Lemon, the China syndrome, Roy Scheider, who a lot of people thought Mate not ripped off. It was probably the next in line for all that Jazz doesn't. Hoffen wins for Crome versus Cream and Alpacino Oh for a movie called and Justice for All, which.

I must say I have not seen.

Really dipping into, like, you know, a cultural point in history. This yeah, do you know what I mean? It's like, this is a point you look back on and this is this changes film, you know.

Absolutely yeah? And this podcast will change podcasts of course. Is the episode I watched Ustin Hoffin's speech. It's actually a good speech. Oh really, Yeah, he gives a good speech. He thinks he mentions the idea that I refuse to believe that. You know that Peter Seller's lost tonight or that, and that's good, you know, I.

Like it good.

It's like when I watched two boxes fight and they hug at the end and say they respect the other person. Yeah, actually makes me so happy.

And and weirdly, Will Smith got up and smacks him. Really, I'm surprised that has not been mentioned for years.

Doing it for years.

You can't trust it.

You can't trust him. Apparently the ice cream scene was improvised. It's not a little fun factors. Yeah, I was improvised.

Mate.

This podcast comes with homework and you are you are killing it at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.

I mentioned in the intro. You'll be true. You'll be cheering around check check check your Instagram page.

Yeah, I ll just type my name into Google.

It's it's when people say links. It's just is Google.

Just write my name into Google and come.

Alive, and you'll be passing through towns and cities with yoyo diablo.

That's it my new hour show. Please come a little.

Smashing it rave reviews and to watch Kramer Versus Cramer as you're heading to the final week and the moment International Comedy Festival is a Lucian effort.

You don't understand how I was. Just I had in bed holding a lap I didn't even watch it on a TV screen. I shut the I'm staying with my friends, so I shut the door, just watching it on a laptop, just in a world of pain, just being like, if it wasn't Peter Hellier, there's.

No Well, mate, I appreciate it. Let's go get some munch.

Yeah, love it. Thanks being.

That was fun.

I love watching Kramer Versus Kramer. Like I mentioned to Sam, I'd watched it half it when I was younger. I couldn't quite get my claws into it because I just couldn't relate to that adult subject matter when I watched it, and all the ads, bloody ads.

But really, such a brilliant movie and so fascinating.

I'm obsessed with the fact that it was the highest grossing movie of nineteen seventy nine. Every time, and I do thank the guests, obviously in front of them, you hear that, but again a shout out to Sam who you know in the closing moments of the Melbourne International Film Festival, which has been a massive festival this year in terms of just getting through it. To be honest, there's been various COVID outbreaks, comedians canceling shows, audiences sometimes having the canceled being at shows.

So for Sam to find some.

Time the watch Cremer Vesu Creamer, an emotional movie was just above and beyond. So if you get a chance to support Sam's following him on Instagram or Twitter or seeing him live more so, please do so. He's a great guy. I really enjoyed hanging out with him. Derek Meyers is the man behind Castaways Studios, where we record you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet in Collingwood, a stone's throw away from the coolest street in the World, as nominated by Time Out Magazine, Smith Street.

Derek, you are the man who puts this together. Have you watched Crama Versus Kramer?

Yeah?

I it came out when I was a kid. Yeah, like a lot of people, and it didn't Yeah, like you, it didn't kind of make any sense to me at all. There was no real point and eventually I would have just seen it as my parents watched it and stuff like that. Yeah, so there's no divorcing, and I mean it means a lot more.

Now, Well, you can watch it when you're older.

You can watch it three even if you haven't, I must say, thankfully in touch wood, I have not been, at this stage in my life touched a whole lot by divorce. There hasn't been a lot of divorce around me. My siblings are all married, my parents are still married, my in laws are married. There's been no divorce. Actually there has been, sorry, but long ago before I was on the scene on my wife's side. All my friends, miraculously are still married. It has been a divorce between them.

I'm sure.

I'm sure there's one ahead of us somewhere. But you can watch it through the prism of your own relationships. If you've got kids, what that must be like the little billy. So Yeah, the older you get, in the all life experience you get, there's certainly ways for it to get hooks into you, no doubt.

Quite often you hear when your friends, like a few people I know, have gone through real ugly custody stuff, and you only hear about like there's probably ten times as many people you know who've been through amicable custody stuff. Yeah, where they've done, you know, back down or done what's best for the kid or whatever. So you kind of get a weird, twisted notion of that. It's an evil sort.

Of Yeah, and that's what I really loved about this film.

And I think what kind of saying is even when two sides are acting, you know, with good faith, it's really hard.

It's really emotionally exhausting.

It took the world by storm, just that, just throwing that notion up. Yeah, in the middle of like this huge year for film.

Yeah, and of all the films we've watched that you know, say, more than thirty years old, and this is over forty years old.

Now, I feel like this is one of the films that has aged as well as any of them.

Yeah, and it is it is the rhetoric like cram versus Kramer is. Yeah, just means that, it means the custody battle, like it's like a brevel or a hoover or something.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely, it's Crame is a great name for it, even though when you google it you get a whole lot of Michael Richards stuff. It had it been Slensky versus Shlensky, you know, like it doesn't have the same it's got I'm not sure how they came up with those names and how much thought you know, to get the right name, and when the title came was it an afterthought or was it always creame versus Kramer?

But yeah, a good title.

If you're listening to the podcast and we want to thank everyone for your support, you can please follow and subscribe. You can leave a comment on the iTunes page just whenever you get a answers to tell your mates about it. It all, it all works, It all helps us give us a five star rating on the iTunes page.

It all helps.

It also just keeps the algorithm in our favor and just spreads the podcast to people far and why. You can also email us at yasny podcast at gmail dot com and you can be sharing thoughts about episodes, answering any questions we put out your own thoughts about episodes, and another way you could also contact this which is I think a more fun way is through this speak pipe, which is like an answering MA sheme message. I've got my head around it now, Derek you basically followed the link.

I believe there.

Yes, it's a nice one from Emily and it goes like this, Hi, Pete, just dropping a line to say, I'm so grateful for this podcast. You and your guests have some great insights. I love learning the reasons behind why other people love particular movies, stories, and characters. You're clearly a very informed movie lover, and your approach is a unique, refreshing and entertaining, unlike some screenwriting classes I've taken in books i've read. Keep up the good work. Cheers, Emily.

Thank you, Emily, thank you very much.

You know this podcast it's really just about, well, want to get the chance to watch movies that I either love or I've seen many times, sometimes movies I haven't seen. Sometimes I just note things that I think are interesting For anyone interested in screenwriting, whether to actually do screenwriting

I believe Derek, yes, use to speak pipe if you want to avoid having me playing the part of you in your emails.

I gotta say you sound nothing like Emily.

I've never met Emily, but in Emily's Emily, if you're listening, that wasn't an impression of you. That was this Derek being Derek and reading the words that you sent. But it's a very good point. If you want to actually hear yourself on this podcast, do what this lady did.

Then here we go Hey guys, my name's Ash. I just wanted to say thank you for such a great podcast. I love listening to it on the way to and from work, hoping that you might be able to aim for Kira Knightley's Atonement sometime soon. It always gets me. It's a great movie. It's got that twist at the end. Anyway, thanks for everything.

Babe, Thank you Ashley. Yeah, a Tonement, I'm not I have to see you for Atonements on the list. So Joe Wright directed that I Reckon about fifteen odd years ago. Perhaps I read the book. The book was Ian McEwen. It's great book, great author, Ian McEwen. Yeah, Kieran Knightley and James McAvoy are in that. So okay, I'll put a Tonement on the list if it isn't on already. I think it's I think it works as a classic. It's a period piece that always helps. But yeah, okay,

Pete save Fan Sut and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night