Gid A, Peter Helly here, welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet the movie Podcast, where I chat to a movie lover about a classic, aw beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now, and Today's guests Journalist TV hosts broadcaster.
Mate Haimi's McDonald.
The first rule of fake club is you do not talk about fake club.
Now always you afraid of you broke my heart. I admi your luck.
Mister Bond, James Bond, haven't a.
Right now, don't see nothing here.
Hamish McDonald is not only an outstanding journalist but quite simply one magnificent bloke. Hamish has done the hard yards over the years, working for everyone from Al Jazeera Channel four and ITV in England, ABC both in America and Australia, and of course Channel ten where he hosts a Sunday project alongside Lisa Wilkinson and or when Lalitez the Sniffles he joins us during the week. Like god good journalist, Hamish is always prepared to listen and debate to put
his point forward. But it never feels that Hamees's mind has ever shut off to possibilities even when he's talking world affairs with an unqualified braffoon like myself. Hamish's great fun on and off the screen. He's curious about the world and the people around him. He's empathetic, but he's no pushover. Hamish knows how to put his argument to those in power and never.
Takes a backward step.
He's fun, he's intelligent, he's bloody handsome, and I'm bloody stoked to be hanging with him today?
Could I?
I'm Hamis McDonald. My three favorite films are Forwardings in a Funeral, I Think I Love You, Summersault and head On. I love that fucking felt And until recently, I'd never watched Punch Drunk Love. I believe this is a small piano. It's not a piano.
I've got a piano. What did you get it?
It was strapped in the street.
Why are they here? Barry Mary.
Following on from the twin successes of Boogie Knights and his magnus Opus Magnolia, Paul Thomas Anderson wanted to show Hollywood that he could make a movie that runs under ninety minutes. At the Carni International Film Festival, when the press were lavishing praise on the young auteur over magnolia. They asked him how the packed press conference, who would he like to work with next? He gave two answers. The first were met with fervent nods. It was Daniel
day Lewis. The next day that came from PTA's mouth was met with roars of laughter. That name was Adam Sandler. The press were then discover a few years later that Anderson was not joking. He wanted to make an art House Adam Sandler comedy. The result is two thousand and
two stunning punch drunk Love. We first find Adam Sandler's Barry Egan, hunched over his desk alone in the factory warehouse as he negotiates with a slightly disinterested voice on a helpline something about barcodes and putting his blue soup,
making him almost disappear into the wall behind him. Sandler's turn as the repressed, socially awkward Barry, a man whose blue suit may as well be a strait jacket, is still the best of his career, although his work in Uncut Gems is in the conversation when Barry's one of seven Hally sisters, brings work mate Lena Lennard played by the always great Emily Watson, into officially introduce them. Barry's life is about to take a dramatic turn. Will Lena be able to drag Barry out of the shadows and
into the light? Add to this an abruptly abandoned harmonium, a shitloader putting, and a phone sex call that goes as horribly wrong as it could possibly go, and you may just have one of the most unique American romances of recent times. John Brian's magnificent, deliberately disjointed score shot by frequent PTA collaborator Robert Elswiz, whose use of lighting and lens flair is a masterclass. A movie about letting
people in, letting go, and finding strength through love. Hamis McDonald Have any of your phone sex calls ever gone this family?
They've all been brilliant, they've all.
Been romantic, and this gentle and there's a real, real yeah push up for humanity.
None of them have ever tried to extort me afterwards.
It's nice. It's nice when you can this. It's a business transaction. Hey, we've had a great time.
Let's just leave it at that now. Thank you for joining me.
You are one of the busier guests I've had on So thank you for dragging your ass to Collingwood in the.
You know, on a wet Melbourne day, it's de rightful to be here.
Why I won't ask you why you haven't seen Punch Drunk Love, because it's not like you haven't seen Star Wars or George.
This is a particular kind of classic movie.
I think it feels like, you know, it's it's more on the cult kind of side of classic. But are you what's your worldview of Adam Sandler going into this cause I think this is an important question for anyone watching Punt Drunk Love.
I have come to the realization that he's quite a polarizing actor, and I probably fall on the skeptical side. I don't particularly like those kind of American comedy films that he's normally in. It's not a personal thing about him, but I guess the types of movies that he is in just don't particularly appeal to me. I think Emily Watson actually is someone that I would probably watch a
film for. I can't remember why I didn't watch this when it came out in two thousand and two, but I reckon it probably would have been the Adam Sandler component.
It's funny because Adam Sandler is I think such a strength in this film. I think once you watch it and he's I think we'll get into it. I want to talk too much about it. I think he's so great in this movie. But he also I think turns people away from the people who don't like Adam Sandler that generally it takes a lot for them to go It probably takes ten people to say you must see this movie for them to actually go see it.
I guess exception of him, rightly or wrongly. And I know we're going to talk about this movie later on. Is that when you go and see an Adam Sandler film, you're watching Adam Sandler be Adam Sandler. That there's not a lot of dynamism or diversity to the characters he plays as or it seems to be a bit of an iteration of the same thing. And so I definitely came to this with a fair amount of curiosity. You know, why is this one on this list? You know, I was aware of it. It wasn't, you know, a film
that I'd never heard of. I was enthusiastic about sitting down and watching it, and I tried to come at this with an open mind. I also knew that he had been in what was the one you Just Uncut Gems, and I definitely did think. I read the reviews of that, I thought about watching, and I didn't get to it, probably for the same reason, just that inherent skepticism that I have about about him. So yeah, I was ready for the journey of this film.
Paul Jomas Sanderson certainly saw something. It's a remarkable press conference as in Car, which I mentioned in the intro, where they just laughed that he wanted It does sound like a joke when you say Daniel day Lewis and then Adam Sandler. Yeah, and you haven't made like a comedy yet, boy United. That's some comedic elements, absolutely, and so people actually do kind of consider it a comedy, but I see it more as like good Fellows in
my mind. So to kind of go from these big ensemble pieces usually like the best character actors Philip Seima Hoffman, Julianne Moore, to then say you want to work with Daniel da Lewis, Yeah, fair enough, and then at Adam Sandler.
I mean, if you're a comedian that's that's the joke you do.
I quite like that, though, So I do a bit of second screening if I'm watching films generally, and I did do a bit of reading about this and the director, and actually that really appeals to me. It made me think about White Lotus, the series that did pretty well during the pandem and the director had this fascination with Jennifer Coolidge. He played Stiffler's mum in the American Pie franchise, and you know, she, in a similar way, always seemed to play the same character, the kind of blonde bimbo
milf I think she was called in American Pie. And he was fascinated by her, and he did, in fact, I think I read a New Yorker magazine article about it subsequent to White Lotus. He had been so fascinated by her and so interested in what the layers were to her, underneath these very surface level portrayals of characters that she had delivered, that had actually written a whole series for her with her in mind that didn't get up.
They then landed on White Lotus, and he wrote that character for her, and for me, she was really a standout in that in that series that really appealed. And the idea that he saw something in Adam Sandler beyond the kind of almost caricature of you know, characters that he plays. It was something that I was enthusiastic about.
And I think, if you're right, if you're trying to break into the industry, and we get a lot of feedback from people who are trying to get in and and and it's occasionally I'll just try to kind of pick up on something that maybe helpful if you can find an actor and then maybe, you know, if you're local in Australia, it may be somebody who's you know, you know, a local actor.
I did it. If I love you too.
I love Peter dinkliche station agent, and I thought that guy is phenomenal and I wanted to write something for him. And it felt ridiculous. It felt like Peter thinklige is this is pre Game of Thrones, this is even pre
death of a funeral. Peter Dinklish I didn't like. But it felt so bizarre for me to say that that loud, that I've written this for Peter Dnklage and then we send it to him and he had he got like that he has some notes on that on the draft that we sent him, and we kind of you know, we took some of those and other things we said, well, this is why this has done that way.
So he accepted that, but he came on board.
There is a thrill of having something written for you, So don't try to write something for George Clooney. He's got But if you can find an actor who you don't think has been used in the right way to give them a comedy or to give them a drama when they're you know, usually done comedy, then then that's that's If you can excite an actor about doing that, that's that helps.
I think, you know, get a script screenlt sometimes.
Yeah, I recently watched the I think it's a binge series maybe or Stan with Boyana love Me. Yeah, yeah, Boyana and Novakovich.
Yeah. I haven't seen it, but I've only heard amazing things.
And I was only vaguely aware of her, And I wouldn't put her in the same category as Adam Sandler, you know, always playing the same thing. But she has her career. She's Australian Australian Serbian, but mainly has had a career in the United States and I guess the characters that I think. You know, She's in Suicide Squad, she was in Ititonia. She was in a series with Alan Cummings where they're sort of these detectives and they were kind of quite well, I guess they're kind of
comedic roles. Probably you would you would describe them. Yes, I don't know whether you'd say Aitonia is, but I guess it was. But in Love Me and It's with Hugo Weaving. She she's the main character, and there's just so much depth to her and so much emotion, and I found her one of the more transfixing characters and actors I've watched in a long time. And she did something I think in that series that stayed with me for quite a long time and really made me ponder.
And I love things that you go away reflecting on for a substantial period of time and wanting to talk to people about. And so I don't think it was written for her. I think actually it was a series that was originally made somewhere in Scandinavia maybe, and it was an Australian adaptation, but it felt actually very Australian, and I thought she was just incredible.
Yeah, she is an incredible actress. And she also she is very funny. Like I don't know her particularly well. I think i've met her at maybe a handful of times when we interviewed a couple of times.
She's for the whole years ago.
When what I really admire about her is she she doesn't stop, like she just kind of if she's not working sher corect work, Like she's doing this tennis character that's like Russian. I might have been serving on a tennis character that was just and she's just doing her own little videos hilarious.
I think she has a YouTube series where she goes I've really gone down a few rabbit holes hear.
There always rabbit holes to go down.
And then yeah, she goes on dates with people. Yeah, and it's filmed for you for YouTube, I think, and she plays a character.
Yes, I spoke.
I think I spoke to somebody who actually appeared in one of those. Was on the other end of the day, Yeah, it was working on these.
I think someone we work with has done it, because I feel like I've had this conversation at work. Yes, project it was well, but she's actually one of our makeup artists at Channel ten. Went to high school with her at I think it's McDonald College, one of the performing arts schools in college. Yeah, my performing arts school.
Give it a plug, go on.
And was talking about her the other day actually, and because I think they were planning some kind of reunion or something something along those lines, and she was like, she was so cool when we were in high school. She taught us how to smudge.
I forgot all about smudging.
Wow, the woman of many hidden talents.
We're talking smudges in on paper and that's not cool or code for something else.
It could be you know, when you were at high school, primary school and you do like drawings, and then you know, you'd sort of put a bit of spit on your fingers and smudge the end of the the yeah line, I.
Thought it might have been like code and all of a sudden condoning smudging and that's going to my face. I might have to go down that rabbit hole as well. It's much better than the rabbit hole. You're not much safer. Let's say about your three favorite films. It's really interesting ones here. Four Weddings and a Funeral. Let's begin with that. What a one of the quintessential romantic comedies. You know, I remember seeing this in Glasgow. I was traveling by
myself as an eighteen year old. I may have turned nineteen by the time I saw it, and just felt all the feels of you know, like missing my friends from back home, and I remember crying in the cinema watching it by myself. Did you see when it came out or did you catch it later on?
I think probably I saw it when it came out, but I think I I it's a film that I've There's only a handful of films that I've watched a lot, and it's a film that I do go back to, you know, if it's a rainy day or whatever and I'm feeling a bit, you know, blue, It's a film
that I might put on. I think I've lived a lot of my adult life overseas, and a large chunk of that in the UK, in London, and so a lot of the locations became very familiar to me, and so I ended up, you know, I lived in a place in Islington for a long time and bits of that film shot around there, you know, the sort of the opening scenes where they're running late and she's sort of half dressed running down the high street. That's that's
up the street in Islington. The sort of final scenes where you know, Any McDowell's in the in theane and Hugh Grant sort of turns up at the door. That's filmed at a house on the edge of Highbury Fields, which is where I where my place was.
Was it raining in that scene, I didn't notice.
God, Charlie Pickering, I'm sure it was, had a has a violent reaction to Dany McDowell, and I feel, I feel she was mostly good. She did her job in that role, that last scene. And I'm sure it's direction from Richard Curtis or not, but that last scene where she's yeah, that line, yeah, look, he doesn't ruin the film for me.
I get why people don't particularly like those films as well, you know, Richard Curtis films, they're a particular thing. But I guess I really I really loved living in the UK. I loved living in London. I felt, you know, my time there work wise and personally was was you know,
formative period in my life. And I think that and love actually it just reminds me of that time very strongly, and you know, I think I think when I first moved to the UK, I think Love Actually had just come out and Bits of Love actually a film on the South Bank and in South London, which is where I was living. I was dossing at that point, you know,
sleeping on someone's couch just near London Bridge. So it was it was all I guess I was sort of in that space, in that in that geographic space as that film came out and was you know, a huge hit obviously, and so I think those Richard Curtis films remind me of that time in my life and and so you know, it just connects me with that.
And for the record, I love Richard Curtis films. I mean, maybe don't listen to it Love Actually episode with Eddie Bannon because he and I joined a little bit. There's a lot wrong with that film, but Richard largely about the fields, I think, and and those you forget that four Weddings and even you know and Nodding Hill really kind of it was just so wonderful to see a group of friends and in a way that a completely different kind of show, but Seinfeld kind of that kind
of aspirational oh these might be my friends. When I get older and I'm living in a big city, and and and Seinfeld, their characters are more unlikable. They're funny and we love them, but they're unlikable characters. Where notting Hill that it was surrounded by these warm, supportive friends of family. He'd like to take the piece out of each other, but also we're there, they had each other's backs.
You know that that kind of scene in notting Hill when they're in the cafe, when he's kind of said, you know, I can't be with you and send her away, and then.
What are you doing?
You know, it's it's a warmth of Richard Curtis films is intoxicating.
You're right, and I agree with that one hundred percent. I think the funeral scene in Four Weddings and.
A Funeral is the Poem is incredible.
I struggle to think of a scene in any film that touches me more. I think a cry every time I think as well. The depiction in that movie of a gay relationship or same sex relationship within a group of friends was very meaningful to me. It wasn't a gay movie, it wasn't a gay story. It just existed in a very you know, in a way that was more familiar to me.
It's interesting because Shit's Creek has won a lot of fans. I love Shit's Creek for the representing a gay relationship without all the judgment and from the small town that you might usually expect in American or Canadian any kind of films really, And I didn't really thought about it, but for Winnings in the Funeral almost does that.
Yeah, you know, thirty years earlier.
Yeah, I mean it's an old film, and I think there was a time, I guess where where gay stories or same sex stories were almost set to the side, or treated differently, and or were somehow if they were depicted, were very controversial within a broader context. This is just a group of friends. Yeah, A couple of them happened to be in a same sex relationship, and I I suppose I saw a version of love in that, particularly
in that funeral scene, that it was very meaningful. I guess when you when you are young, and you know, learning about yourself and thinking about your future, that that is, you know, is important.
Yeah.
Well, something it was a bit more controversial was head on with alextati artists. That's a different kind of relationship and the representation of a gay man's life. So remind me was the character in head on incredible film? Was he straight with his family or was he like not out of the closet?
Was he wasn't really out? No, he definitely wasn't out. He was he was on a bit of a journey of discovery.
Yeah.
I actually rewatched it last night to refamiliarize myself with it because I was thinking through, hang on, what you know, how do you choose these three favorite films?
And I guess there was a discussion you were having Georgia Toney and Kate Lambrook at the desk which I was trying not to listen to, about what your three favorite film should be.
And I I was a little uncertain about naming this as one, but I guess I you know, it came out at a time when I was young and was learning about myself, and I guess what stood out in my memory was Alex Dimitriat's this incredibly hot guy. There was some pretty full frontal scenes in that film, and it was just incredibly exciting to see that. I think,
excuse me now, when I rewatch it. It's actually a pretty dark film and it's very challenging to watch, and I think probably more than anything, it probably scared me about being gay because it's depiction of what it was
like exploring that. You know, he was in a lot of back alleyways and you know, random hookups with you know, a factory worker or a restaurant worker, and not that there's anything wrong with that, but it was all A lot of it was very sort of spontaneous, and some of it was a little bit scary, and the reactions within the Greek community or sort of those traditional conservative families two characters that may be gay or cross stressing
or whatever they were doing, were pretty ferocious. And yeah, I think it probably came at a time for me when I certainly wouldn't have been out and probably was just coming to terms with it myself.
So looking at that where you're going to think, Wow, if I'm going to go down this path, is that is that what it's going to be like?
Yeah, I mean I don't consciously remember that, but watching it rewatching it last night for the first time in years, I thought, my god, this must have absolutely scared this shit out of me because.
There was a time when I think society, the straight world kind of thought, oh, well, this is what gay people are, like, they must they thought.
They're all the same.
There's not, you know, Hannah Gasby talks about the quiet gays. You know, Yeah, there's a there's a whole like like like straight people, there's a whole speaking of people, you know.
And that's not a homogeneous grouping. Yeah, there's a lot of letters in that alphabet. But even within that, Yeah, there's a lot of diversity and dynamism and different interests in different backgrounds.
So I can, I can even and when you're young watching a movie like Head on It, and you know, there's probably other films that, you know, like a lot of a lot of films that depicted gay lifestyles around that time were like on the edge of like edgy cinema, art house cinema. Yeah, and that kind of almost that alone takes it to edgier spaces.
It certainly does. And I mean, I love Christos Chokis's writing generally. I think he's totally brilliant and clearly what he was doing with that film was trying to start a kind of a conversation and it did have that impact. That film had a big impact. Design understand it on the Greek community in Australia. I mean, I also think the Paul Kapsus. Is there other actor in it who I've gotten that if I've got that wrong, but absolutely true. Actually I was blown away watching it last night, how
great he is in it. And he is someone that's experimenting with with with gender or is I suppose living a gender fluid existence to some degree, and calls himself Tula, which is the name of his dead mother, and his father is appalled and this leads them into some fairly brutal scenarios and it is actually an incredible performance.
Yeah, yeah, and very current. Mm head on check it out if you have a little movie around that time which I saw called Priest. Do you even see Priest by Antonio Bird, Robert Carlisle and Linus Roach about a Catholic priest who all of a sudden, just all of a sudden, but you know, started experimenting and it's an incredible, incredible I took I think I spoken about it on
these podcasts before. I took a girl on a date and she was a Catholic fearing you know, you know, straight girl, as I was a straight guy.
We went to the Melbourne at that point in my life.
I mean, you know, yeah, yeah.
It's still open.
It's still open, and yeah, I yeah, so wow, these things are really these are really full on scenes and it was a.
Very different movie to the head on.
But I imagine if I was watching that in your situation kind of thinking, it's still even even though there's some tenderness in that movie, it's still kind of depicted. There's like people doing the wrong thing in a way.
That's how society, I guess.
Was totally. I mean, look, of course, it's amazing how far we've come. Actually, and so just from a I suppose social observation standpoint, watching it last night and reflecting on you know, that's really in the time of my adult life, yeah, which is sort of twenty years. Yeah, I think we attitudes have really changed, and that's that's
obviously a wonderful thing. But yeah, I think when you are back in the eighties and nineties growing up gay or learning about yourself in that way, coming I come. You know, it came from a pretty conservative background, from a very small rural community. I was at a very conservative religious boarding school, all male, pretty sort of violent,
aggressive environment. It was actually it was a fairly terrifying experience and isolating and lonely, and so I definitely I think there were things in that movie that definitely resonated and just that you know, there's a scene where the sort of these two the Alex demitriads and the Caps as characters end up in a police sell. One of them's,
you know, poor Caps's addressed as Tuller. Alex is sort of gearing up for a night out, and then they sort of have this violent interaction both physical and verbal with the with the police. Yeah, I guess I was surprised at how familiar that felt. Weirdly, having grown up
in the in the environment that I did. That sort of sense of genuine not just fear of like what happens if and when I tell my parents what happens you know about coming out, but just a genuine physical fear is something that that is, you know, is familiar to me and I don't think about much, but watching the film last night, you know, it certainly certainly resonated, and it made me think about that.
And that actual Metritist's performance was revelatory, like he had gone from almost like heartbreak high in those kinds of roles and this kind of shocked everyone. This was like, wow, this is we weren't expecting this from from the sky and has continued to go on and to give great performance.
I was actually remembering I think he I think he was found like by the Heartbreak High producers or Heartbreak Hid produces on the street Yeah, yeah, with friends, yeah Sydney, and.
Considering that usually you might get a film or two out of someone that. I mean sometimes you hear those people going and having great careers, but to give those kinds of performances to go from playing you know, Heartbreaking and became heart Break High, where you know, the good performances. But yeah, head on was like full on and you know, doing some things for young bloke and you confronting for
an actor. It also started, I think a string of films where Alex to Mitchiada's characters did like seem to perform or sex on people like.
It, like it seemed to be. It seemed to be even in films where you weren't expecting it.
Okay, there he goes again, adjusting it to the director, should I go down to this guy? It's not really the script that's got nothing to do with the plot, but sure, why not? Will throw it in there, we'll use it, maybe we won't.
Who knows. They're a fantastic performer.
Alex Demititi artist another breakthrough performance, and I do want to get on the top of backpunchtronk Love very soon, so we'll keep this a bit quick. But Kate Shortland a rise in the scene as a direct and that brings Abbie Cornish, who's had a wonderful career as well in Somersault.
And Sam Worthington Sam worthing of course, and also Eric Eric Thompson Eric Thompson. So I suspect probably if you're listening you might not have seen Somersault. It wasn't like a big hit or anything. Would you call it art house.
I got arth Hoouse. I think that'll win at Carnt or maybe very well at Cahn.
So I going this probably almost twenty years ago. I was living in London. I hadn't been home to Australia for a number of years, and I went to go and see a movie in Covent Garden one day and when I got there, I saw like a sign board up for an Australian film and I was just I was just feeling a bit homesick, and I thought, maybe I'll watch that instead of what I'm here to watch. And I knew nothing about it, didn't know anything about
the story, where it was set anything. And I went and sat down, and the film is set in Ginderbyne.
It was I was gonna ask.
Yeah, I knew Gindabie was set in Ginderbyne, but yeah, I was sure if it was.
And not only that it was largely filmed on my street.
Oh wow.
Yeah. And I had no inkling of this before I went in, and I the emotions that I went through watching that movie were so overwhelming. I still feel them a little bit when I think about going and sitting in that cinema in London and watching this film and seeing the place where she lives is at Siesta Villa Motel, which is at the end of Gerrara Drive, which is where I grew up.
That's incredible.
The Leah Purcell character lives in a house which is also at the end of our street that was called the Animal House. The servo is the survey that we go to. The Sam Worthington character is about a guy that is sort of going home to visit it was. It was. It's a great film anyway, but that experience for me initially of watching it was incredible.
I mean, we're all get to kick when a movie is shot in our own city. You know, we've discussed on this podcast how many people you know, I've spoken to love the Matrix just because of shot in Sydney. You recognize, Ah, there's you know, there's George Street or whatever. But for one to be shot in your street is pretty incredible.
And for anyone listening that that doesn't know if Ginnervine it's in the snow mountains of New South Wales. It's a tiny little community, only a few thousand people. It's close to the ski resorts. Outside of the ski season, it's a very quiet place there always was. It's changing little bit now, but it's a place that I feel incredibly and deeply connected to every time I go. But you know, lived overseas for about fifteen sixteen years and whenever I came back, I would always make sure I
got home to Ginderbyne. And there's a bend that you drive around as you as you come from Sydney into the mountains. There's one particular bend just before East Ginderbyne where you turn on this corner, and the whole mountains and the lake revealed themselves to you. And I always in anticipation of that bend, put the window down and
just taking the air. It smells different there, and it's often very cold and crisp, and I love the feeling of putting the window down, taking a really deep breath in through my nose, feeling that kind of coldness at the back of my nose, and I I feel more at home and at peace there then I reckon anywhere else in the world.
That's amazing. Do you have a soundtrack to that moment? Do you do you put anything on?
No?
I don't know. I mean probably just whatever is on. It's not about sort of trying to recreate something. I think something that is incredible about that landscape is that it is so ever changing. You know, the seasons all occur within one day, it can be within one hour, and it's really dramatic. And that viewpoint when you're coming is quite high up on a hill, so you get this just but it's an incredible reveal and it's you know,
we live. Our home was in East Ginduvine on the lake, So you know you're literally in the last four minutes of your journey from from Sydney or Canberra or wherever you've come from. You know you know it's coming. If you're taking people down for the first time, you know
you know they're about to see it. Or I look forward to that moment, you know, like when I took take my partner down for the first time, just you know, you know, for the five ten minutes leading up to that reveal that they're going to be like, wow.
Yeah, this is beautiful. That's an exciting moment.
This place that you talk about all the time is actually quite stunning.
I hope Jake enjoyed it and didn't say just won the window up. What are you're doing? It's freezy? That could have been a deal rerecord.
I at the same time when I saw four weddings over in London, so I was eighteen, basically traveling by myself.
I've gone to scand the NAVYA next well now a next girlfriend actually even then a next girlfriend in Finland's I said there for a while, went worked in Scotland for a while and was I remember getting a bus in Glasgow up to a place on the West Coast called Inverary, very small town, beautiful town like the picture I kind of a lock and you know, and the green rolling hills of Scotland and almost a one street town with a pub on it. That's basically where I
worked for about only about a month. But driving up there and playing I had a walkman. This is in ninety three, so literally what when a handful of cassettes and one of them was Paul Kelly Live, and I remember playing Winter I didn't deliberately play. It just came on as my head was against the kind of the window of the bus and the rain was kind of coming down, and Winter Coat came on by Paul Kelly, and it was just so whenever I'm in the if I ever go to Ginderbyne, I'll probably put winter Coat
on and listen to it would be my moodsetter. All right, Haim's McDonald. You can't put it off any longer. It's been a couple of days where we've avoided talking about this film because we wanted to save it all fresh for the podcast.
But this is an amazing film. In my mind.
It's two thousand and two Paul Thomas and its is his false film. He made Hard eight is his debut. Then Into Boogie Knights was incredible. Into Magnolia, I did say he wanted to make a film under ninety minutes. He wanted to show Hollywood could do that, because Magnolia was three hours and Boogie Night was close three hours too. This comes in at ninety four minutes, so if you take away the credits, he's done his job.
But Hami's McDonald. Did you like Puns Drunk Love?
He did do it in ninety minutes. It felt like three hours.
Like a knife to my heart, Hamish, Okay, let's discuss it. So I got a text message from you when you watched you about halfway through and you said you want to remember.
Her what you said, this film is creepy.
His film is creepy, and I replied, well, yeah, I don't think it's a creepy movie. There are certainly creepy characters in there. And then you said something like I don't like the way it makes me feel.
Yeah, I found it unsettling. I think in large part that was the soundtrack.
It's a very and I mentioned it in the into John Brian Genius deliberately does this thiscombobulated soundtrack because it kind of matches the film in a way, And this is like an absolute master class in composing and like giving the film what it needs in very I mean, there's a beautiful, lush movie we hear when they later
on go to Hawaiian it it's becomes romance. But there's that awesome scene I find where everything's just coming down around you know, there's the fork with and then there's crashing and and all the dialogue is completely is this combobulated as well? It's like what's it the pudding? Are you having crying fits? Like what's what's He's just going Toledo like this, and it's just so that just just
matches the dialogue perfectly. But so in talking to people over the years about this film and it's it's a divisive film. Adam Sandler plays I think a part now I think he's magnives in it. But I more than any other film perhaps I know it gives people a feeling and either it seems to me either that feeling falls on that. I love this film because it's it's sweet. See I find it a sweet film. I'm not saying it's not without its darkness. Obviously it is, but ultimately
I find it the sweet film. But if you don't find fall on that side, you follow this side where it's it's a bit unnerving.
Well, what did you find sweet though? The relationship between I.
Find this is a movie about a guy who's hiding from the world, and and we know why he's hiding. He's had a horrific upbringing because his sisters are hellish and and he just he doesn't want any part of it, and he gets dragged out. He gets dragged out. Like you don't see movies with Barry Egan. They don't make movies about Barry. He's somewhere on the spectrum I suspect,
and you don't put him in romantic comedy films. Like Barry Egan found out he was the protagonist in the movie, he wouldn't know what to do.
His head would actually explode.
He's not an interesting person, he doesn't he has nothing to offer, he thinks, So to put him in this thing and the matching with somebody who just sees him, I think there's very powerful when a film can depict characters where one sees the other, one sees something that nobody else sees.
Yeah, so I I will grant you that.
I before you even say that, I always make this point. I think it's a good point for you to be comfortable that I'm making this point and the reminder audience, this is a movie that I've seen about twenty times. I saw it when it came out in the cinema. I've loved it from day one. I've got to know the movie more and more as i've watched even more the last I've watched it.
Two times this week.
This is a movie you watched literally two or three days ago, and you are in probably many ways still processing yeah, this movie.
And I do think you're You can go on a journey with any film or piece of literature, right, you can come to appreciate it more over time. And I wouldn't say that I don't appreciate some of what's in it. And to the point I was making earlier about the Jennifer Coolidge thing, identifying something in people that tend to play similar characters, I think I can see that that the director obviously was interested in what's beyond these characters
that he plays, Like what is that awkwardness? Why does he end up in these strange situations, you know, playing the characters that he's played in other films, like what's the depth, what's the nuance to these people? And I think with the character in this film, you know, it's
almost a split personality. He'll be sitting there at a dinner table having a what seems like a fairly ordinary date conversation, and then he'll something will be said and he'll excuse himself, go to the bathroom, and smash up the bathroom. And so I can imagine that the director might be thinking, well, there must be two sides to these characters. There must be multiple dimensions to these characters, and is that one of those dimensions? But I found
for myself watching that it may be quite uncomfortable. It made me wonder how thin the line is between this person managing those emotions and those violent outbursts by excusing himself and going to the bathroom, or you know, somewhere down the track, if this relationship evolved just taking it out on her. That's what that scene made me wonder.
That's absolutely valid.
I didn't get that because I feel like this he is in desperate need of help. Let's have a listen to when he and the reasons for him being like this. It does a really good job. Everything's done so economically. This is a filmmaking masterclass on every single detail. Now I'm not saying that that means you needed to light the film, but we know a bad way, you know, a hacky way of doing this is to really explain you know this. You know his parents die. We don't
really know anything about his parents. But yeah, when I was young, and that's why he is. But he's not. We just we just see these interactions he has with his sisters. He's forced to go to this dinner party that they've organized, and this is him as he arrives. He's not nobody's ever't seen him yet, and he's at the front door, and this is what he hears remember and barries to get all mad.
Ron used to call us game boys, were sliding glass door.
Sliding.
Master don't remember homes himself in him about the hammer was done. He's Day's talking about you. Remember we used to call you gay boy, You get all mad. What we used to call you gay boy?
Remember you'd be fine and then we call you gay boy.
You just freak out.
We were climbing gay and you got so mad you through the hammers with the sliding glass or you.
Remember I don't remember that, Yes you do, you're calling you gabeor and you got so mad?
Are you gay?
Now?
I don't know. I'm trying to figure out.
Or do you have the wear suit?
I don't know.
You Are you using that dandel chamber on you?
Yeah?
Very, very very Why do you have the hammer?
Why did I have he was building a dog nouse?
Okay, okay, you have.
A kid, Okay, I was just thinking about you.
Glad you can make it ship.
So that almost tells us everything we need to know why Barry is hiding away in his warehouse from the world now. But yeah, I mean basically the conversation we had about the other films was that, was that something that because that happens raised me early in the film that you kind of I don't want to say triggering, but was it like this is making me feel uncomfortable.
Or this is Yeah, of course, I think it's hard to listen to that and not feel uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's but I take it and kind of go and obviously, you know, we may me come from a different point of view, but I look at the go and I just feel for Barry. I'm just like, it makes me just feel more empathy for Barry. He's lived his life like this and he's an only he's got seven sisters and this is what he's put up with.
I want this guy to win. I want this guy to have a win. Please have a win. And that's why.
Yeah, we won't go race through a film just yet, but later on I feel this kind of elation because it's like, yes, like when he does tell his sister fucking leave, fucking lie, like I can understand the outbursts because I see where it's come from. That that that uncomfortableness that you felt, and I get that, and it is it is uncomfortable, like they did. There's no air
in anything that Like it's one thing after another. If it's not the gay boy thing, it's the hammer thing, it's it's the Dandre thing.
Yeah, like there's no.
But soon after that he smashes up the glass doors. Yeah, and so any I guess, yeah, I see this. I see that you're being invited to feel sympathy, but then the violent outbursts are also discombobulating.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I just want to point out a magnificent shot when he does actually break those doors. Just notice he smashes the doors. This is where everything is thought through. Smashes the doors. The one of the right breaks, and one of the middle shatters a bit, and then the one of the left kind of it doesn't completely all shatter, but you can see through, and you Barry is behind the one that hasn't fallen through. So you come see almost his silhouette. He's colored silhouette. And then you see the sisters.
All on one side, in the left and on the right hand side there's is a photo of Barry on the wall.
That is what his life is. He is by himself. He is completely isolated. He has nobody his parents for what they don't say that I can remember what happened to him, but so he is completely he doesn't have any friends. He's in this situation. He's put in the situation because of the abuse to these cops. I'm gonna allow him to have an a purse. And then when he does have the aburse, what's the next thing that he does?
He asks for help.
I'm sorry about that, Sorry about what I did. Sorry, I wanted to ask you something because you're a doctor, right, yeah, I don't like myself sometimes? Can you help me? Mary, I'm a dentist.
Day.
What god of help do you think I can give you?
Yeah, I mean one, it's it's it's a great tag. The city doesn't end there. He goes talks about his crying problem that he has, but again, that gives me more. We want to see characters in movies try to try to make themselves better. Barry has a problem. No, I'm not doubting these outbursts are an issue, but Barry is
also recognizing that they're an issue. He's reaching out to a man, maybe one of the only men in his life that he can maybe outside of Rico play with Louis Guzman in the Factory, who's bloody, hilarious and I love him. But he tells Walter Walter's.
Going to betray that.
When his sister comes in later the factory, he says, Walter says, you have a crying problem, and it's just like he's as said, Le's obviously he says, don't tell anyone. And maybe watching this in twenty twenty two, outside of two, where we look at violence and we know violence amongst the men is an issue, and we kind of we
our minds go to different places, Nate. It's certainly that didn't go in my mind in two thousand and two when I'm watching, and it still doesn't to me because I think he's not it's not directed at anyone, it's.
But across the through the film, he seems to lack agency at so many points, right, and so he is capable of it, as demonstrated in the clip that you just played. He's capable of saying to someone I sometimes don't like myself. I need some help. But and he's also not unable to communicate. You know, there's there's moments where he communications, communicates quite clearly.
And well he's on the phone in that very first scene, but he is trying to find a connection through those conversations. I mean, he's having conversations with the guy. You know, there's the scene where he's on he's on the phone, he says, do you have my home phone number? And the guy goes, I don't need it, yeah, I just saw you might want to call.
I want to connect me.
Yeah, yeah, And he is looking for this connection.
He can, he can communicate, and you're right about the agency, but he does do a couple of things that I think where he takes he takes on a bit because like so those listening agencies basically means you want your protagonists to He can't be passive like Emily Watson comes to him, which is which is passive. But what he does a couple of things. One he collects he collects pudding. Yeah, he's got a plan. So he's got a plan to get out.
Uh.
Two he takes a harmonium and we'll talk about that. That that that scene and obviously it's it's a strong opener. He makes a phone sex call. But these aren't things where like agency can you and usually most films that they're usually much bigger things, you know. And he does get there later on in the second half of the film.
He definitely does.
He does take things on, like he really takes things on once he has that love that he's been lacking in his life.
He he.
Strength.
Yeah, but I think I struggled to accept that you could be so desperate and so sad and so hurt by these relationships with the sisters, for example, and not doing anything about it, not make the decision like he He's obviously made a lot of decisions in his life, like hiding himself away in this factory or whatever it is.
But isn't this the moment we are seeing. Isn't that what this film is about, like.
A transition even yeah, like but even that, he doesn't make that happen. It comes to him.
Yeah, yeah, but he is still making He's making choices, or we want from our characters to make choices.
He makes the choice to what he calls. And I think it's important when he's in Hawaiian he calls his sister.
Yeah, because he doesn't know Lena's none, but so he calls her. That's a decision he's made. It didn't have to do that makes it. And then when she fights him on it, he actually he goes here we can actually and we will jump around a little bit, but he calls his sister.
And this is a little fun fact that the sister.
He calls, the one who's like really on him, the one who comes to the factory, Lena's co worker, is the only actor out of the sisters. The other non actors were quite incredible because I thought they're thinking in the kitchen that we played where was actually really nicely performed, as hard as it was to watch, but see when he's yelling at his sister. I think that's him at
least taking that on. What I love about it is it's a smallness, is a real intimacy to this film, like it's not, and he makes these ordinary things seem quite beautiful. This true the way it's shot, and these really ordinary things, like it's basically the harmonium is basically hard, rubbish,
and there's beauty in that. There's a I have a theory which I share with Brendan cow which is a harmonium is love, and it's about his connection with that harmonium that he is willing to accept and when so when Lena kind of comes in and he meets him, him going back out and taking the harmonium, putting into these officer. Now you can say it's love, or you can say he's even if it's his heart.
Yeah, it's certainly a symbol of what he needs to do to take that relationship that she's offering to him. Yes, right, that's what that was my reading of the of the because it appears out of note.
You know, this is something his truck, but his car, his car flips like a van taxi, like a maxicab, drops it off both red. By the way, there's a big thing going on with colors, which I'll get to blue and red. Okay, keep the blue and reds in mind. I would love to know poor Thomas Anderson had any kind of thought about, even in his own head, a backstory of who was in that car. Wifely, I think
basically the harmonium represents love. The car represents chaos, because his life becomes chaotic after that, and that's where there is feeling of where it becomes a little bit uneasy that the score kind of this kind of changes and it becomes this kind of you start hearing you know, it's started almost like a lush kind of instrumental in the opening titles, and it becomes more like, yeah, like this.
And you have that scene where we spoke about where Lena comes in and it's it's it's almost I don't think it's one shot, but it's almost one shot.
He goes in for along.
I can almost see you getting a certain discomfort on your face listening to this. You got the gaffer tape, the electrical tape there. John Brian, who did the score, actually worked on it whilst I'm making the movie, even beforehand, so on set.
He could actually play some of this.
The soundtrack of the score. It makes me push my toes up into the roof of my shoes.
I love it.
I love that.
I love that because that's what he's like.
They're wanting you to feel something. You know, Well, that's what it makes it just I listened to this, but I'm driving around, you do I love I love this soundtrack.
Well, it takes me back to the movies.
I'm I don't necessarily have the same like we're not watching the movie when everything's happening.
I have the same friends.
But I've watched this movie so many times that I watch it sometimes now I still get all the fields. But I'm also watching it on a you know, on a PTA masterclass level. It is amazing what he's done with this film. Let's talk about these Let's talk about his decision.
To call a phone sex line.
But he takes some agency and he and he calls, we spoke about your your you've had some happy memories with phone sex. I'm glad. I'm glad it wasn't triggering. I'm glad there wasn't something else that was triggering for you.
In this. And I actually from I have written here in my notes. It gives very agency here.
There's a sweetness again. He calls a phone sex line and he wants to talk about almost anything he's trying to avoid. He's trying to connect with somebody he's trying to avoid, actually anything about sex. She's asking you putting yourself off, and he's like, oh, no, what's your dick doing.
I don't know what it's doing, you know, like it's yeah.
He asks about the money and his company, and he goes he wants to diversify, and he's actually pretty happy with the way it's going.
So obviously subsequently the people that run that phone sex line turn out to be baddies, but he doesn't know that, right, He just is calling a phone sex line.
Amount of times he says, it can't come back and they can be jack, you know, he's just confidentially asked like two or three times.
And it's obviously something that you see depicted in film or television shows from time to time where there's the guy that's in need of you know, comfort or sympathy or love going down that pathway of sex lines or you know, sex workers. So that's not that's not altogether unfamiliar, But I suppose when that when that call happens, it did also make me wonder, you know what this woman, you know, probably a young woman working on a phone sex Imagine how weird that would have been for her.
I know we're supposed to sort of see the world through him because he's the protagonist.
But so, yes, you have sympathy for Georgia.
Well, I'm acknowledging that Georgia turns out to be not a good character. But in the moment, I'm thinking, why is he doing this to this woman?
But you could say that about anyone who goes to a sex worker. Like he's been really nice. He got of says you sound nice. He actually says you sound nice and personable. Like I think there's a version of what you're saying where somebody is really aggressive and it's like, well that's you.
Know, everyone deserves respects.
I think Barry's being disrespectful in any single way outside of using the service, which I don't think is disrespectful.
But she clearly doesn't. I mean she is sort of she keeps attempting to have to do the phone sex call. Yeah, yes, yes, and he just wants to talk about all this other random stuff.
Yes, but I don't one. I suspect that would actually happen a lot.
I suspect phone sex lines you will have, you would have men calling and trying to connect on a more human level than actually just to rub one out.
It's not it's not what I do.
You are there for business, you know what you need, You get in, you get out.
No fucking about did I still exist? Do you think I was thinking about that on the way in. I called one many many, many, many many years ago. It would have been not in this millennia. It was twenty seven, it was pre pandemic. Actually might have been.
It might have been during a pandemic. And I found the weird experience. And I actually do think I did kind of like try to kind of like just ask. I think once I was on the line, I was like, I'm not sure if I really want this.
I think I was. I didn't quite believe it.
I didn't believe the facade like what they see what you see later on with the you know when you see the mattress Man, you know, and philis Simah Hoffman, and you the lovely little shot of the you know, the tally workers, just of their headsets and sitting at desks like they're, you know, working for Optus. That's how I kind of imagine imagine it being. So you never kind of brought him, so I kind of get that idea of kind of going, well, I don't want to
just jump into any kind of sex stuff. But I also kind of really connect with that idea of going I think I was also. I only did at once because I was so fearful of, like, you know, somebody finding out where's my credit card? This mum said, my credit card state? You know, there's there's this what happens, you know? And and do they have do they have my credit card details? Now, I think all this comes from a very human and real place. I don't I
didn't have. I've never even thought of having kind of that sympathy for empathy for Georgia because she signed up for this as her job, you know, and this because the boat wants to She's trying to steer it back to sex.
But she end up she does.
Engage to an extent of Yeah, she does eventually, and then takes advantage of that. I feel you have really gone in hard on not liking Barry, and I think that makes it hard to then, Yeah, I feel like if you don't have empathy for Barry Egan, you can't enjoy it's hard to enjoy probably your life and the beautiful world around you, and then the complexities of the human nature.
No of this film.
I mean, at some point I thought, because when you I think you'd watched maybe half of it, and you're kind of have a rebrief conversation, and I've got a sense of this hasn't come as a surprise today.
But I think though it's I don't think it's that I have no empathy for him. I think I just found that at every at every turn, as I felt that sentiment emerging, something else would happen which would would
throw me about him. Yeah, you know, the violent outburst, the yeah, you know, I was kind of into that scene where he's having dinner with her, and and you do lean into that to the possibility of romance, and he does display this more communicative, eloquent, thoughtful side, and then she raises something.
She seems like the adult in the room in a way, Lena Lena Leonard, and it is a slight misreading of the room on her situation to bring up the sisters and the hammer story, and intend it's his funny story. I would have maybe read the Tea Leaves a bit more. I love that story, and I do love that scene because you see him actually enjoying himself, like he's starting to. Because everything he basically up until then, he just he just he lies, and you can understand why he lies.
I kind of wrote down some of the lies he that he spills out.
Have you got seven pages loads of notes?
Yeah?
Maybe even maybe more, even when they're they Lena and Barry meat after that chaotic scene, you know, the fork lift and everything is this combubbler.
We spoke a little bit that before, right at.
The end where she comes back in and he says, he says, he says four things, they're all four four things are lies.
He says, I didn't ask about therapy. The pudding's not mine.
I'm wearing this suit because they have an important meeting today, and I don't have a crying problem. Now we understand why he's lying about those things. They're not they're not they're white lies. But there's there's still lies. There are so many times.
Why why is it? How do you justify him doing that?
Are you above a lie? A white lie to impress somebody.
Would you would you on your first date with Jake and you kind of put out or that if somebody had given you giving Jake or your skeletons in your closet, would you do you not want to water some of those down? And kind of yeah, But I don't think that's again, it's a reasonably human kind of reaction.
I think it's it's a bunch them all together and hit them all out.
Like I think he's somewhere on the spectrum, So let's like, let's have that as part of the you know, the microscope that we view Barry through.
It's odd.
He's an odd guy. There's no doubting he's an odd guy. So the fact that he's like best not the same the thing. Just let it, let it rest, and hopefully she hasn't heard those things or not taken those things. She's still seeing him for who he is. These lies like Rico remind me to call that guy in Toledo. He comes back into the opposite who's going to Ledo.
I feel that she to your point, I not that she ever says it explicitly, but you get the impression that she is happy to overlook.
Yes, I agree, all agree, And I think she knows that it must be tough on him because she knows, she knows his sister, Barry's sister.
But it's interesting, right that it's sort of almost a setup. Well it is a setup, but a suggestion to the sister, right.
Yes, So she sees that Barry on the wall, which I mentioned earlier, and and she then based on just how he looks, he's a handsome guy, she wants to meet him. She has her own quirks, you know, as well. She's completely you know, I'm a normal inverted commas ah. But yeah, I I I think she does. She she sees him which I which I think is you know, really lovely. It's really I think that's a sweetness that
I like. And and she reveals her oddness, you know, you know, a bit later on when they have that Pellow talk when they finally get together and they're talking about smashing each other and she she says, I want to chew your cheeks.
I want to eat them. He says, I want to smash my face chairman.
Like, now, yeah, that's confronting in a way, but like if they if they're saying it It's like the way I see that is the way you know, people want to say about a baby. Oh I could gobble you up. You know, somebody will say in such a way, and I go, I wouldn't be surprised if my auntie eats my baby, like keep them away, because they are.
But the way that's delivered though, the bits by him, it's a little more threatening though than your auntie saying I want to gobbled baby.
Yes, but she but she she initiates the conversation, and.
The way she responds to him is she undercuts it by going further. Yes.
Yes, so they're they're they're playing on a consensual same page, you know. It's not like it's not like Barrie's misread the room and has come out with I want to I want to smash you with a sledge up. That becomes a different thing. And I think, you know, if we're honest with each other, we all have things that we will say to our partners that we would never want to, you.
Know, just say or the he heard, or to be you know. Yeah, so this is a like there's a.
Line in Hawaii which I just it's just fucking such great writing. So when they finally get together. He calls and and and he says, and all the line is there's two lines. There's two lines.
So he's he's.
Called, he's got They got a great scene where they kind of you know, he have the hanshat. We'll talk about that soon. And then there's the band. The band's in red blue ocean in the background, blue and red, and or she says, like you can you can imagine they finally got together. As the writer, you what's the most romantic thing, the most amazing prophetic things that I can write?
She just says, you came and got me out of my room. Thank you.
And he takes the compliment. He doesn't say much. You just you take, but you can tell he's taken it on. And then he looks around and he says, it really looks like Hawaii here, doesn't it.
Yeah?
And others think that's that is perfect writing. And then they walk up and they walk away, and I love the walks they do from the date. We'll go back to the date in the seat. But when they walk away and he reaches out and she eventually kind of reaches down, holds his hand, and what I love about this movie and when I see this kind of kinds
of movies, and they do it. You can watch Lord of the Rings and you can follow Frolo's journey and Sam's journey that they get this ring in a volcano, and the courage that it takes, and the bravery it takes, the courage and bravery it takes for Barry Egan evidence to extend his hand not knowing he doesn't know. He has a feeling that she might because you know, things
have gone better for her to take his hand. You had a feeling it must have been like if he put out his hand and she doesn't go to you know, it's like saying I love you to somebody and not know like then and from where he's come from to get to that point. That's one of the reasons I love this movie.
Do you reckon she dropped off the harmonium?
Oh mm?
Because she reveals that she deliberately came with her yes, car, yep, that she'd seen the photo that it you know, it was all.
Deliberate, Yeah, and supposedly I always forget to look out for it. But the first time Barry Egan is in the supermarket, there is a flash of red in the background. Red Hamish red and supposedly I'm not sure if it actually was Emily Watson on the day or it's just represented it.
Yeah, so what's what's the red and blue?
So it's just it's largely it's a filmmaking thing that's going on, but it's about you know, you know, visual literacy. I guess of somebody who's working at port Thomas Anderson's level and what he does. So blue kind of represents loneliness.
That's Barry. That's why he wears his blue suit.
Lena is red, Okay, Lena representing love passion. She wears red or colors that are closely.
At lined to red.
I think she may be changing the pink purples you often see the lens flares when they first meet.
There's a lens flare that's in the middle of them.
It's both red and blue, like a little tiny, little two colored rainbow, both pointing kind of at each other. There seems like when Barry finally decides to go, and like I mentioned earlier, the car and the taxi that drop off, the Flip and the Harmonium both red. When Barry decides to go to the airport. When he decides, I'm going to go. He races out of the factory. A red truck just kind of goes by. It's very strong, you know, you never really see any really cars, you see.
It seems to be traveling at quite always with momentum. Barry kind of you know, runs through it. That then cuts to Barry come down the airway walk in his blue and I think, I think it's like blue carpet shade of blue two Hostess in red. When you are in Hawaii, you'll see that the box is blue. Barriers on the box, the dancers in the street are wearing red. The parade a big Hawaiian parade. Also there's a mesh. There's a little mesh gate like little mesh you know,
things that can be folded up. They're folding it up as they as they're doing it. Where as soon as Barry starts talking to Lena, it folds up almost gets out of screen.
So there's almost no barrier now between the blue and the red.
When Lena's voice comes up a little note the light comes up in the lighting is another thing. I'll get the lighting in the sec And then when he's running from the from the brothers and he does that kind of dive that kind of style. It's kind of a stylistic dive. There could be another reason for that. We'll get onto a superman theory soon. He dives and there's a red arrow facing the direction that he dives, like in a neon light arrow in the shop front there.
When they leave the dinner, there is a truck with it goes along beside them or they whilst they walk, and it's got a blue it's largely blue logo, but it's got some red riding as well. And then that leaves and it's overtaken when they walk to their car by a car yard which has largely it's got it's shut down, but it's sill, got some lights. It's got red and blue lights. And then there's a final scene which I'll get to when we discuss another theory. But
when he finds Lena, this was really interesting. When he finds Lena, they've been red and blue and there's this light thing going on as well. So when Lena first meets Barry, you would have noticed a lot of blown out lights. Lena kind of represents the light. So Lena when they first meet, when she comes down together a car fixed the sun is right behind Lena and it's shining on Barry a lot. There's all these lens flares, there's lots of light bouncing off trucks and things, and.
It's all really beautifully placed.
So even when a good example is when Barry goes and he doesn't kiss Lena, and then she goes downstairs and she says, I just want you to know I wanted to kiss you, and it just gently moves and there's a there's a lamp on the desk and it gently moves in. And when she says that the more the more light and the more he talks to Lenna,
that the more light appears on his face. So when Barry meets Lena in Hawaii and goes with the big awkward handshake, it's the only time she's wearing white, right, Lena is the light dragging him out of the shadow.
Samish, I think you've watched it too many times.
You haven't watched it enough. You have not watched it. It's a it's an incredible film, but.
Clearly it's made for people that have a passion for filmmaking. So if all this is correct, yes, I'm not doubt. I'm not casting down on what you're saying. But if that's all correct, it's not need for the average consumer. These are things that likes a Richard Curtis film.
When I watched, but they be stopping Richard Curtis films that would be not at this level. I don't think.
I'm not saying that Curtis is a great filmmaker, but you know there's more art if you like, in Paul dams Anderson's films, No disabout it. I'm a Rachi Curtas fan, I really am. But I don't watch this in two thousand and two in a cinema and pick up all this. This is from seeing it twenty times. And so you probably won't watch this film twenty times.
You watch it twice, but I'll go back and watch it again.
Yeah, so it's picking up those things.
Also, these things exist to work on a subconscious level. Like it's only when you really sit down and do some reading on it and you know, I'm looking around that you discover it. Some of these things I discovered for myself. I thought, there's there's a lot of red and blue. Oh, there's more red there. And there's there's other things that I you know, like the light I knew there was light. There's something to do light. There was overblown light. It's really blown out when it's outside and.
So glaring.
Yeah, and it's and it's yeah, it's just really interesting.
Also, lots of white walls, you know, and there's really interesting stuff to take out. So Superman, Superman, let's talk Superman. All right, let's talk sip Man. There's a theory which I this is I only became aware of getting ready for this show. There's a theory that Barry Egan is Superman.
As in this is you know, this is his day job at night his Yeah.
That there are like, now, I don't want people thinking that that Barry Egan is going to enter the DC universe or anything, but that that as a as a source of inspiration Superman is there are three lines from Superman to Barry Egan. I'm going to take you through it.
Now.
This is not this is a bit of fun. It's not one of the reasons why I love the film. Like I said, it's I could take it or leave it. And at first I was like, oh, come on, and then when they started listing all the things, you kind of go okay, all right, Poor Thomas Anderson had this, you know, I don't know. He feels a big superhero fan, big Superman fan. All right, so you've got the obvious one. He wears blue. He wears blue. Also, flight is a
big thing for Superman. Barries after freaking fly miles, he talks about DJ Justice. It's one of my favorite scenes. I have mentioned this, and you know, I feel like a wanker every time I say I had the pleasure of having dinner with poor Thomas Anderson, and the one scene I got to asking about was that dinner scene about DJ Justice.
I loved it. There's justice. There's a whole truth.
Thing going on with the lies, and he tells lies, and then Lena starts telling the truth, you know, and then he starts telling the truth. He discovers great strength, almost super human strength. Lois Slane is his girlfriend in this movie. It's Lena Leonard. After they after they kiss, Barry's tie is red, symbolizing a little more the famous SimMan outfit.
There's a villain in this movie.
The mattress Man sounds quite quite like a villain when he confronts and we'll get the philisimahoffins and we got to Philisi Hoffen he when he gets to that, he he's wearing he's getting his haircut, and he's wearing this thing that almost looks like a cape that a villain might wear. Superman had his Fortunes of Solitude, which was I forget the name. I don't know sub Man well enough, but yeah, the place where he's from the planet where
he was from almost had those like ice. Remember the glass, he's either ice or glass kind of shards the way that some of and Barrie's fortunes of Solitude is his factory, and he has his plunges the way they're shot, and when Lena and he says to come in, they kind of almost walk through these plunges that are set up look like these kind of shades of glass.
And perhaps the.
Most compelling one is fine the very final shot of the film, which is Barry at the Harmonium. They've gotten together, they've had their kiss and at her apartment, and then they go through the factory and he's in the harmonium and he's wearing his blue suit and Lena comes up from behind him and this gives him a hug behind him in her red which looks like a cape, and she says, here we go, which could be something you hear when you're about to take off.
It feels like a little bit of a stretch to me.
I mean, I think it's fun. I think it's I don't really care if it's true or not.
I'd like to know if if Paul Thomas Anderson used it as some kind of even if it's a bit of fun for him.
But what I do like about that theory, though, is that someone has admired the film and and have reflected on it enough to think that up, Yeah, that.
Is a film.
By the way, this is a film that those who love it like, absolutely, absolutely absolutely love it like. It is one of those absolutely one of those films. Let's sa way Philisima Hoffman, the great, late great Philisima Hoffman. I mean, let's we got to have a listen to the phone call between Adam Sandler and Philaema hoffin two greats.
I'm gonna connect her with my supervisor.
Now you're in trouble, honey, Hello, sir, my name is Barry Egan. I called your service. Oh what's that?
I said, calm down and shut the fuck up. What's the problem.
The problem is if you explain one of your employees that girl I was just speaking with has been threatening me, and four blonde gentlemen just attack me and smashed my car and hurt my girl.
I go fuck yourself. That shit has nothing to do with me. I run a legitimate business here. Listen to me. What's your name?
Sir?
Answer me?
What's your name?
I'm sorry, I know it could be anybody.
You're a bad person. You have no right taking people's confidence in your service. You understand me, sir? No, no, no, shut up. Shut the fuck.
You're out right to take shut up.
You shut up, shut up, shut shut shut shut shut up, shut up.
Now are you threatening me?
Dick? An't you you go fuck yourself?
Oh? Fuck?
Did you just say go fuck myself?
Yes?
I did that?
Wasn't you're dead?
I mean you probably felt sorry for Philip sine my hot run in that scene.
It is.
It is an unsettling well.
Originally this was going to be a gangster film, funnily enough, yeah, and this was going to be Barry was going to be a thief and Lena was going to be I think his ex wife, and it was heading towards a more Tarantino style affair. But I I love this film because it's so unique, like it is the characters are, you know, and the direction it goes without without feeling like like Guy Ritchie movies can feel like a bit cake don It's like, wow, there are so many you've worked.
Really had.
You can always see Guy Ritchie on a whiteboard kind of mapping it out.
This is not like that. This is kind of prett effortless.
This comes from a you know, it's also the the repercussions of making not even a mistake, you know, he just he's just a guy. He was trying to connect. He rang a phone's next light, and then all of a sudden this is put on him and then he he he takes control. I mean, I love it when he takes control.
It is so.
It is like, yes, I don't care where you've got these skills from. Where you can you know, beat up like four Blonde Brothers.
Yeah, but you're doing it. You found strength and it's just a it's not a complicated message.
That's why I like, That's why I think sometimes there is that car flip and why he does dive off in that scene and for no real reason and it kind of runs off. It's like there are things that happen that are we Sometimes I'm critical of films because I think real life can be stranger than what we you know, and sometimes when you're trying to develop something and we go, oh, that happened.
It's like anything can happen.
YEA life is.
Stranger than fiction. And I just think, so let's, you know, let's embrace the weird and then you know.
Could I could I turn your argument for this character back on you though a little? Do you think the director is deliberately challenging you to find it difficult to be on his side.
I don't think he is. I really I understand. I understand. I'm well aware that this movie divides people. I think poor Thomas Anderson. The reason he one he just loves Adam Sandler. There's always loved these movies, and it surprises people to find that out that the guy who made There will Be Blood and Magnolia and the Master just happens to be a big fan of Adam Sandler movies, like he likes generally goofy stuff. And I think he's ace in the whole, and I think he's well aware
of it. Is that even though this is almost ironic based on what we've talked about and the reaction of people thinking, oh, well, I don't like Adam Sandler is that he knows that people do love Adam Sandler, even though that's probably.
Not giving consideration to the whole crowd.
There's a whole other crowd who don't. I think Adam Sandler his comedies, like you mentioned earlier, aren't necessarily my cup of tea. But there's something so endearing about Adam Sandler that I will sit through and I will enjoy Happy Gilmore, the wedding singer fifty first Dates, because he is genuinely so likable. There are things so many things wrong with those movies, but you don't watch them, you know, discuss the you know, the lens and the colors that
they use. It's Adam Sandler has a presence. He's funny, and there's something human about Adam Sandler that comes across on screen for me that I've always connected with. Even though there are some films if he's that I half watched it, I very rarely do that are half watched and I think I don't need to see the end of this or some about right hated.
You know those fans like what are you doing. But there is something I think.
Very humane about Adam Sandler on screen, and I think, I, you know, we all come from different places, and I just had immediate empathy I think for Adam standing and his rage. If his rage, if I didn't understand his rage, he would be more of a concern. If we don't see how much the sisters put on him, then it's just like what the what the this goes.
Off the charts. But I can see and he asked for help. He asked for help.
What do we want people to do? We want them to reach out. He's got no one to reach out to. The one look like Walter who does reach out to betrays him doesn't.
Actually get into a doctor's surgery.
Well, of course you can do. You can say the about any movie, why did I do this? Well, then there's no fucking movie.
You can always say why why don't I just get over that heiccup and just get together? In the first Why doesn't Harry just love Sally straight away? Well, because we want to go on a journey, we want to make a movie. You want to have a few laughs here, So that's that's my point.
I do love that scene. Did remind every sing Boogie Night's funnily enough.
Yeah, I think a long time ago back, Yes.
There was a there was a certain kind of like I feel like those scenes are related. There's a scene where Dirk Diggler goes into a car park and jerks himself off for cash and it and then it gets beaten up. It felt like it felt like it may have been shot in the same carpack.
I don't know if it was or not. Yeah, I do. I love Phil heartfit.
I mean the exchange they had when he goes after the car accident, he gets his superpowers, takes it to the hospital, then leaves. She does go back, Yeah, after they and she's already been discharged, like even though with stuff like he runs, like he goes to in the store. Well sorry he goes, Yeah, in the match of store. And that's in Ohio. So there's Gonneman Californian to Ohio. And but we don't think this is where you can create your own culture, create your own.
Time lines, landscapes.
We don't question, we don't, we don't. We don't really think about it. The jumps on a plane and goes Ohio. I don't know how long Ohio is from California. Imagine it's a plane trip.
But he goes there.
He's still on the phone in his hand, and it's and it's gorgeous. It's brilliant. You know, we don't, we're not. It's just a little detail that's kind of funny if
you're watching it again. A craft when look how por Thomas Anderson reveals when Adam Sandlers can't go one and he's getting his hair cut, and it's such a simple little move and they use a mirror and and things to kind of disguise the fact and they just pil Simah Hoffen turns around and George who's cutting his head, turns around and he just like moves the camera a little bit reveals Adam standless standing in this almost there. I say, it's superhero pose and it's just like a
very simple but brilliant directorial move. Okay, it is gorgeous, mate. This podcast comes with homework. I feel like more for you than most.
I feel like I've let you down.
No, no, listen, I like always say you just process in his film. I'm not gonna say you're gonna watch it again and love it, but you might you might watch it again and have a slightly slightly different view on it. Perhaps not, I don't know. Some quick fun facts before we go. The pudding said plot was actually a real based on a Time magazine I.
Got to use.
I saw that, yeah, because yeah, I read about it.
Yeah, so it was a Time magazine article. A civil engineer called David Phelps bought three thousand dollars worth of putting US hundred and fifty cups and end up receiving one point two five million mile fring of flying miles.
And they asked him if they could use his story.
I did that.
I didn't know that, yeah, and he said yes, yes, And then he saw the film and he's like, that guy makes me anxious. The movie's original titles were Knuckle, Sandwich and Yeah. I mentioned it was like a Tarantino style one hundred and forty pages long, and then he wanted to make a shorter film, so that all changed.
The idea of having seven sisters was inspired, believe it or not, by an episode of Cops four times, Andazon was watching a I get arrested and he's talking about all the things wrong with his life, and he mentioned he's got seven sisters, and Sanderson thought, okay, that sounds fun. Sean Penn was going to play Dean Tremmel. Even though philism Hoffin nails it, Sean Penn was going to play
it was unavailable. They always wanted to work together. Has recently worked with him on Licorice Pizza, which is an extraordinary film as well. This feels like poor Thomas Anders's most personal film, but Lickorage Pizza is in a completely different film vibe, but it also feels very personal as well. But so mate, thank you, thank you. We're heading into the project office. Well no doubt, continue to talk about it. I'll look at you across the desk and going how.
There is this guy, buddy?
What?
Oh god? I don't understand it.
But thank you so much, and thanks for hanging out, thanks for having me. There we go the ultimate episode of season four. If you ain't seen nothing yet, yes, one more ago, And I want to thank Hamis McDonald for coming in and having a chat about that film. I get the feeling he's going to go back at some point and watch it again and maybe have a different vibe about it. I don't know, I might be wishful thinking, but I love chatting to him. I love working with him. I love being his mate and very
thoughtful sensitive guy. Sensitive not soft, I mean, he he cares, He's empathetic, so I really appreciate him taking the time.
He's very, very very busy man. And I loved that. I loved him talking about.
The movies, that story he told about about seeing Somersault in London, and then also what the movie head On kind of meant to him as well. That was really that was really really honest, kind of soul bearing stuff in a way. So thank you Hamish for being so honest. Sure do I wish you loved puns Strung Love more than you did, Yes, but that's the way to cookie grumble. And I still it doesn't change the way I think
of the film. I think it's a perfect film. I think everything Paul Thomas Andersen tried to do he achieved and I will always love that film. And for anybody listening to this episode who loves punt Strunk Love as much as I do and may feel frustrated that Hamish didn't love it, that's not what this podcast is about. It's just about sharing our cinematic experiences. And yeah it should not even when I when we did love actually and I kind of, you know, joined in on the shredding of that film.
I didn't.
I certainly did not want anyone to change their views on love. Actually, you know, it's just about having a revisit of some films. So yeah, puns strung Love in my mind will always be perfect, and I hopefully Hamish will give me a tap on the shoulder in the year's time we go. Actually, Pete, I apologize. Let's record that podcast because it's actually the most brilliant film ever. I won't hold my breath, but we'll see Derek Maya Skaisway studios. You have not seen in Punk Struk Love.
I believe you know what I'm going to now, we've achieved.
If we've achieved something today.
It might be the deciding vote.
I'm a no Sandler guy.
Yeah, okay, okay, so.
Definitely listening to the clips and listening to the discussion, I'm going to have to just just tough en up and have a look at it.
There was an article because we're actually recording this little behind the scenes. We're recording this a week or so after we recorded the interview with Hamish, and he sent me an article that was written by somebody because he's got Hustle out on Netflix now, which is a he plays a basketball coach, I think, and somebody who.
Was writing in the age.
I believe that everyone really needs to rethink their Adam Sandler prejudices, so good chance to do so. He's got Hustle on Netflix. Uncut Gems was amazing, but maybe start with Punks drunk love. It is a phenomenal experience, I believe. And performance next week sadly the last episode of If You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet for season four. It has flown by in many ways. Other times I feel like it's gone exactly over about twenty weeks or so.
I'm so excited.
The classic film, an iconic film with an iconic, brilliant Australian. We have Claire Bowditch coming in for the final episode next week. Claire is somebody who I could not have more respect for. She radiates positivity. She speaks so beautifully, and particularly about creativity and the importance of creativity. She really believes in what creativity can do and that everyone is creative. And I'm sure we'll get all kinds of insights. I've got my fingers double crossed. She's going to enjoy
the movie that she has nominated. She has never seen. Claire Boats, musician, author, broadcaster, entrepreneur or amazing woman has never seen the nineteen seventy six winner of the Best Picture Oscar that year is the highest grossing movie of nineteen seventy six. It spawned eight spinoff films over five decades. It gave us sevesteris the Lione you know you can hear it.
It's Rocky.
Where Votage watches Rocky for.
The first time next week on your eighteen Nothing yet until then, take care, and so
We leave all Pete save Van Sult, and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant your time.