Gid A, Peter Helly here Welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet? The Movie Podcast, where our chat to a movie lover about a classic or but loved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now. And today's guests comedian Kiwi mate Ben Hurley.
Do you really think you have a chance against us? Mister cowboy?
Open the pod bay doors, Hell, I'll have what she's having? What ma happening right?
You Ain't seen Nothing Yet?
I first met Ben Hurley when I traveled across the Ditch through a brand new panel show over there called seven Days Think Good News Week with Kiwi's or if you're English, Mocked the Week with Kiwi's. It was a lot of fun and Ben and I headed off immediately. We bonded over movies, music, comedy, and quite a few beers. That was back in two thousand and nine and the show has been a massive success, winning huge audiences and
taking in all the awards. Ben is a type of bloke who you love to make laugh because Ben loves to laugh. Even better than that, Ben's a type of mate that makes you laugh even more. I've got the perform on the same bill as Ben multiple times for New Zealand Comedy Festival Galas out of the famous Auckland Comedy Institution the Classic. He can be seen soon on Ozzie screens, on SBS's Trans Tasman panel show Patriot Games, which is returning for its second season, and also The
Elephant in the Room. He actually was an original cast member of the Project New Zealand but jumped ship to TV and zed's seven sharp, No no no grudge here, Ben, You're okay by me, mate, Ben. He's a much love bigger in New Zealand, both on screen and on stage. Ben's generous, hilarious, and I love that he looks a bit like Dave Grohl, so I'm bloody stoked to be hanging with him today.
Good a Kyota, This is Ben Hurley. And my three favorite films are Mystery Men.
I Believe in My Powers, and I believe Hot Fuzz Point Break or bum Boys too? Which one do you think I prefer? No, I mean, which one do you want to watch first? And Twelve Monkeys may Day Mayney Terriss are kicking over the Nacatolic Building Century.
City, And until last night I had never seen the usual suspects.
All Right, you all know the drill. When your number is called, step forward and repeat the fresh you've been given. Understand number one, step.
Forward, Hand me the keys, you fucking cocksucker.
Number two, step forward.
Give me the fucking keys, you fucking.
Knock it off.
Get back number three, step forward.
Hell me the keys, you cat tucker.
In English, please excuse me in English, I.
Mean the fucking keys you got taker, What the fuck?
Number four? Step forward? It was bullshit.
The whole rap was a setup.
Hand me the keys, you fucking cocksucker.
It was all the cops fault. You don't put guys like that into a room together. Who knows what can happen. Hand me the keys, you fucking cocksucker.
You know, I get approached a lot by gen Z folk asking me, Pete is Chubby check as less twist again the greatest twist of all time? And maybe it was for a while, but surely nineteen ninety five's The Usual Suspects is now the reigning King. It paved the way for a wave of twists heavy movies from Primal Fear in ninety six, The Sixth Sense and Fight Club,
both nineteen ninety nine. Weirdly, it seems the only movie in the nineties that didn't have a twist was Twister, directed by Wonder King Brian Singer, problematic and we will get to that. From a brilliant script by Christopher mcquarie, The Usual Suspects takes its cues from classic noir with
a modern bent. When lone survivor of a boat heist, a con man with cereral palsy, Roger verbal Kent, played brilliantly by Kevin Spacey in a career turning performance and yes, don't worry, we will also get to him soon, is questioned by US Customs Dave Couyjong in the messy office of one of his counterparts. It sets off quite the chain of events. What follows is a story where fact and fiction are blurred, beginning with the arrests of five criminals who should never have been put into the same
cell as each other. Dean Keaton, Gabrielle Byrne, a next crooked cop trying to go straight, the zero foxgiver Dean Hockney, Kevin Pollack, the barely comprehensible Fenster a career de finding Benicio del Toro, and the loose Cannon McManus, Stephen Baldwin and clearly his best performance. Feeling unjustly inconvenienced by the arrest, a gang of five take on jobs aimed at giving
the NYPD a big middle finger. All this takes place in the shadows of a mysterious figure, of course, possibly an urban legend or a spook story, as verbal says Turkish crime lord and bona fide Mofo Kaiser SoSE, winner of two Academy Awards for Spacey for Supporting Actor and the Regional Screenplay Christopher macquarie. The Usual Suspects set the bar high for twist based final scenes. Ben Hurley, be honest, are you, Kaiser Soso?
I could be.
I mean, look towards the end of the film, they just kind of, you know, keep passing the kaisa. So say along like it was at Benton in the Olympics.
Mate, thank you for joining me. It's great to see. It's been a while since we have been able to spend any time together because of various borders and and just schedules, I imagine. But tell me, why hadn't you seen this movie? You are a film buff. We often speak about movies when we get together. I'm surprised that this one came.
Up me too.
Actually, I don't really have a good answer for that, because it's very much in my genre of movies that I love, you know, nineteen nineties, you know, fast talking, dialogue driven, you know, with with with a twist. I knew there was a twist. I didn't know what the twist was. But yeah, the other ones you mentioned, like your fight clubs and your your sixth sense, like, you know, I love those, you know. I would argue that Twister did have a twist because no one knew that Helen
Hunt had been hunted by a Twister. At the end of that film, she says that it literally hunted her and her family. So I didn't see that coming, did you.
Well, no, I didn't see that coming. And I love the fact they're playing on various levels Helen Hunt been hunted. Oh yeah, being the twist, I mean, that's just.
There's that great moment at the end.
I think, I'm sure you know what I'm referring to when when I say there's at the end where Helen Hunt's a great actor, don't get me wrong, but she's hysterical and she's The line is you've not seen it.
Miss that's house, and miss that house.
And come after your and I went, wow, this is a great film.
I remember. There's two things I remember about Twister, and I'm happy to cover Twister in this podcast. Somebody's raised Twister. I think I think an email that came through somebody suggested Twister, and in this your reaction was, I'm not sure if it's a classic, but you could argue you could make the case in the genre of disaster films,
it has its place. The two things I remember of Twister is the flying cow Flying Cow, and also I know very much so that phil Seymour Hoffman was in that film, because for a long time people would say to me as much as say after say to you Ben like Dave Grohl, to me, they would say, like, you fat guy off Twister. So it it took until he won the Academy Award for Capodi where people actually knew his name, so as well. On Oscar's Night when he won for Capardi, I was like, finally, I'm not
the fact guy on Twister anymore. I'm Oscar winn A. Philip Seamore Hoffman.
Yeah, I mean, I think he's got three loans in that movie, and and he's one of the greatest actors of our generation. And he's got three loans and one of them is a Star Wars quote. He says, that's done a moon, that's a space station. So I mean, if there's ever a waiter to waste an amazing actor, it's Philip seymore Hoffman and twister.
He is incredible. Rest in peace, Philip Seymore Hoffman. So did you know, lizaid? I don't want to know so much of what you thought of the film, but I mean you must have heard people talk about Kaiser so say, and had you like that been it feels like it's in the pop culture zeitgeist.
Yeah, absolutely, I certainly had, but I didn't. I knew that there was something to you know, I knew that name, and I knew that there was a twist, but I didn't put the two together. And if I'm honest with you, I've attempted to watch this film I'm about a dozen times in my life and got about ten minutes in. So it took me getting some proper homework with an actual deadline from a friend to do their podcast for me to force through those first ten to fifteen minutes, which are hard work.
That's okay, Well, that's very interesting. We'll leave it there. We'll come back to that because that is that is very interesting. I haven't heard that before. But let's let's let's come back. Let's come back. I want to talk about your three favorite films. Mystery Men, fantastic superhero parody I guess yes, or satire.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I've not watched this an actual superhero film since Michael Keaton was Batman. They don't do anything for me. That the MCU, the d CU, that is that the alternative.
I'm not sure if it is other. Yeah, I think it's just MCU and dc It should be DCU. Why is it a DCU.
I'm improving it already. Look, yeah, just they don't do much for me. And I think because I saw a mystery Men kind of before it all started. It's just a fantastic parody. Yeah, Satire is definitely the word for it. Set in basically a kind of a Gotham city where everybody wants to be a superhero and there is a superhero played by Greg Kenea called Keptin Amazing, who is too good at his job and has locked up all
the criminals. And because there's sort of rampant capitalism. He is sponsored by a thousand different companies, and he's starting to lose sponsors because no one's even looking at him anymore, because there's really nobody to put away anymore. And then there's a hampless band of try hard superheroes Jenine Garoffalo Ben Still, William H. Macy, Paul Rubens. That's right, and they you know they want they basically look back spoilers.
Yeah, there's a spoiler here.
Okay, they accidentally kill Captain Amazing and have to save the city.
Is Eddie's art in it as well?
Yeah? And I love Edie his arts. I'm sure you do. Pete.
I'm not sure it's his greatest sort of role, but he's definitely in it. He plays one of the Disco Boys, which is a bad gang of guys's and there's a great moment actually in it where where he just gets a gun out and all the other the mystery men that the band of hapless guys, they're like, oh wow, a gun, that's not a power and he just shoots them, like you have to have a power or some sort of special skill. They hadn't really sort of put together that firearms are quite powerful as well.
It's funny with Eddie's because he was a massive influence on me, and I've been able to, you know, meet him quite a few times now, not to say we're friends, but we're just like I've been able to, you know, I've dined in with him once after a show with you know, other others around, and a couple of times and been backstage. And he's a lovely guy and like I said, a massive influence on me in the early days.
And maybe because I have such a connection with him live and he's such a strong presence live, I do have trouble putting that aside. When I see him in the feature film. I'm not sure there's one where I've completely lost myself in his performance like I have, you know, with say Steve Coogan.
Yeah, I mean, I'm no actor, but I think he's definitely got better at acting over the over the years. And this is definitely at the start of his acting career when he yeah, kind of just come out of stand up and I don't think he'd done a lot of it at that point.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's an absolute legend. None of the utheless hot fuzz of because egger Wright Simon peg is to follow up to Sean of the Dead, and yeah, there was some expectations on this. Did you go with the expectations that after loving Sean of the Dead or did you come to this clean?
I can clean. This is the weird thing. I had not seen Sean of the Dead. I'm not anti zombie movie or horror movies, but they're just not something I gravitate towards. So I wasn't as aware of it. Went to Hot Fuzz with my now wife, she wasn't my girlfriend and Clapham when we lived in London years ago, and just on a whim, we're like, oh yeah, let's give this a go, and just how from start to finish.
I've seen a million different cop shows, as we all have a million different cop movies, except for usual Suspects obviously, But and it's just I think it's it's this has a great twist. It's not at the end, it's it's sort of you know, at the end of the third act. Probably it's it's just the word perfect comedy gets thrown out around a lot. It's it's maybe not perfect, but it's very close.
Well, I always define a film, any film with his comedy or anything else was did they did the director achieve exactly what he or she or they were trying to achieve it?
And I.
Probably haven't watched High Fives as much as you, but my recollection was that absolutely Edgar Wright and that team achieved everything they were trying to achieve.
Yeah, definitely, I think that's that's very true. That IgA write style of you know, really fast cuts and really slept kind of you know, in your face movie making. He doesn't he doesn't shy away from you know, letting you know that he's directing the film, which I'm totally fine with. Very stylized in just loads and loads of great eggs, you know, an excellent cast, a huge cast, ensemble cast, and I just.
I just love it.
It's so funny, including our very own Australia's very own Cate Blanchette in a bit of a masquerade the performance. She's one of the when they're I think they're dusting for fingerprints or something and they're all wearing those heads of toe kind of you know, kind of white ones, that's right, the masks on it. Yeah, she's she's one of those twelve monkeys. Terry Gilliam and I saw this when it came out in the cinema and loved it.
Brad Pitt, Bruce Willis, and I said. I was in community radio at the time, Ben Hurley, and I said to my co host James Brasher that, and I mentioned this every time this kind of this movie comes up, or this era of Brad Pitt comes up. Specifically, after seeing Twelve Monkeys, I said to him, Brad Pitt would become one of the finest actors of our generation. And he laughed and embarrassed me in front and tried to humiliate me in front of our six or seven listeners.
And I.
Have to bring it up now because I have more than six and seven listeners now, and I want him to know that I was right, and also everyone else to know that I back Brady Early.
Yeah, he's great as the and it's a kind of theatrical, over the top performance, and it's fine because the whole film is theatrical and over the top, kind of got the acting rock of Bruce Willis. He's kind of the one who was an en Medlin Stowe who's fantastic in that film as well. I think I'm the same as you.
You're Mes simmer Age Peter and I saw this at the movies and I was probably in my late teens, and I understood it, and that may be feel pretty special because loads of people, I think, everyone, what the hell was that about?
It's it's something that only occurring to me recently that and I've spoken about it again on this podcast before is post the Punstrung Love episode with with my good friend Hamies McDonald, who and Hamish didn't quite connect with that film as much as I do. I think it's a it's a perfect film under the criteria that I gave before, But there's something very special. Sometimes. I think we grow up trying to get people to like all
the same things we do. Like you become ambassador for your the music and the movies that you listen to and watch, so you want other people to experience it like you do. But this if everybody was experienced it the way you do, have the same feeling, it takes away the specialness. So sometimes you have to just protect that specialness and be okay about other people not liking
or getting what you got. And I can imagine you coming out of Twelve Monkeys feeling pretty toughed that you saw what Terry Gilliam was trying to achieve.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And I think someone had shown me Brazil, which is this kind of first big film, and I didn't quite get it. But I knew it was good, if that makes any sense, But I didn't quite understand at all. And then and then Twelve Monkeys came out, which is more of a Hollywood film and definitely more accessible, even though it's quite challenging and it's great. It's like, I love Back to the Future, but this is like back to the Future for grown ups.
That's a decent way of putting it. I mean, I would argue that back to the Future is for all ages, Ben Hurley, and but I do know what you mean. It's you know, there is a mental asylum, you know, a factor going on. So yeah, it's it's it's I haven't watched it for a long time, which surprises me. Actually, in fact, I reckon I maybe only have seen it twice, but I remember loving it. When I gotta watch it again. Actually I'm running it down. It's on my list to
watch again. Steri Gillian, Twelve Monkeys, Brad Pitt, brids Reelis Medal and Stow. All right, let's talk about the film we are here to talk about. I am excited about this because I saw this in the cinema and I was blown away. And this is not to try to you know sway. You know you already would have made up your mind and you have some thoughts. Always mentioned on this podcast, we're talking to somebody who has just seen a classic film for the first time within usually
the last twenty four hours. There's probably still some processing going on, but I was blown away and this would be very high up in my all time favorite films. We should point out before we get into it a little the issue that we had. We were discussing doing this film in all sincerity and seriousness, there is some problems with some of the people, some of the creatives in this There's been multiple allegations against Kevin Spacey and
also the director Brian Singer. So we had a quick to and fro about whether we should you know, where we lie as far as separating art from artists and and you know, canceling our movies. We're obviously we are proceeding, but we should acknowledge we know that there are problems, because there will be you know, potentially praise for both those people from a craft and art point of view, but we certainly don't condone any of the other actions.
I believe it's a Weinstein produced film, so it's a real trifector of monsters involved in this one as well. So I just thought we say that, yeah, it has problemtic But the way I would like to think of it is there's there's loads of other people involved with the film who are, for all that we know, good people. So they shouldn't I guess, miss out having their their work looked at and critiqued because you know, three people were incredibly bad people potentially, but definitely.
Yes, yeah, I think that's absolutely right to be honest, I think it's the right way looking at it. You can't hundreds of people go in, you know, like work.
We know how hard films are to make, and the amount of work that does, the blood, sweat and tears, the time away from families, the creative energies, the sacrifice that go into making films from hundreds, literally hundreds of people, not just the actors, the set designers, the art department, costume, all those people who you know, script out of this hoses And I think if you were to delete various movies from history because of the actions of you know,
a few seemingly really rotten apples. Then then we don't get to enjoy Christopher mcquarie's brilliant scripts and Bontia A Del Toro's you know, and Chas Pedliman series, you know, wonderful performance. And I think we need to be able to separate some of these art from the artists sometimes and celebrate movies because otherwise there's a lot of good bloody movies. And where do you draw the line as far as do you you know, is what crime level is?
Is if we found that? And what where's the hierarchy as far as the film being made gets in the very murky territory. So we are proceeding with the usual suspects under those thoughts and guidelines. And we I never judge anyone who doesn't want to dance in Michael Jackson or watch a Woody Allen films. It's all up to
the the individual's taste. Benjamin Hurley. Let's go to nineteen ninety five, Brian Stiker directed Christian mcquarie script starring of course, Gabrielle Byrne, Kevin Spacey, Chads Parlimentary, Benicia del Toro, Kevin Pollack, Stephen Baldwin, Susie Amos. It's a cracking cast and of course, big little shout out the Giovanni Esposito. Did you enjoy the usual suspects?
Mostly yes, I think yes I did. I'm still processing. I can't give you a firm yees, but it's definitely not a no. I did enjoy it. I think my initial sort of reaction is that I thought I was going to enjoy it more.
Okay, okay, so you've come and you said that you knew there was a twist. Were you trying to pre empt and predict that twist?
Yeah?
I was.
I think, are we gonna are we gonna talk about the twist? I know we're jumping to the end of the film here, but.
Usually usually we don't do that, but I think for this film, it's such a unique film that I think we we can jump to the end and work our way back. I think it's almost the best way to discuss this film. So I will just say, if you have not seen this film, and I surprisingly ben I get a lot of people saying to me that they often just listen to the podcast based on the guest or the movie. Even in the movie, they haven't seen the movie, and then they'll decide whether they watched a
movie or not. If you're one of those people who have not seen The Usual Suspects, I encourage you. I implore you to stop now because it is one of the odd times, whether you love the film or not, that the end is one of the all time great endings, final few minutes, mind blowing twist that you if you if you know about it, it's just going to take away from your enjoyment of the movie. My wife asked me this morning. She said, she said, what movie you're doing.
I said, I'm doing Usual Suspects with Ben And she said that's a that's a really good movie. And she goes, what was it about again? And so I proceeded to tell her and take her through the entire movie, and then she goes, actually, I don't think I have seen that one. You could have stopped me before I got to the twist.
So Bridget was going, so, there's around these people that chase tornadoes around the country, And.
Is that what you thought?
No, it's not not at all, So okay, so hopefully that they've tuned out now, so let's jump to the twist. Did you at any point you kind of guess it or did you see it coming?
No?
Not really.
What I'll say which surprised me is it's a double twist because the first twist is that kaisas say, is Gabriel Burne. And I was like, I was pretty impressed by that. I didn't I didn't really see that coming. And then I went, oh, that must be the twist. And then they double twisted me and it was not Gabriel Burne at all.
It was Kevin Spacey.
Yeah, and how did you? I feel like it is so brilliant when that mug falls to the ground and Kabayashi is the brand of the coffee mug. I actually remember being in the cinema and the whole senators going what like it was just one of those cinematic moments, and I I, what was your reaction?
My reaction was, well, that makes sense now that he's made that up, because I could not work out what Pete Postlethwaite was doing with his accent, some potential coloring of skin, coloring, references to Pakistan, and then he's got a Japanese surname. I'm like, none of this adds up, I don't know what's going on with his character, and then and then it's revealed that he's that that verbal's just making this stuff up due to things he's noticing
around the room. Allah, Missus Doubtfire, That's exactly what I also thought. That's what happens in Missus Doubtfire where Robin Williams calls up and he says, and he puts on the voice and he said, what's your name? And he looks at the paper and he gets the two words doubt and fire and he puts them together. So those are the thoughts I got. I was like, well, just like Missus Doubtfire.
I've never made the Doubt Fire connection. I have to say, well played, mister Hurley. That was one of my favorite films. It's been ruined because it's basically just Missus Doubt Fire. This podcast was a terrible idea. Whose idea? Whose idea was this? I mean, let's address let's address Pete possible Weight.
I love Pete Postilweight sadly no longer with us. He is gives one of the great performances of my of my my one of my favorite films, In the Name of the Father, where he plays a white Irishman, which
I believe that's what he is. But in this film, yes, there's there's a there's a some tanning going on, and he's supposedly I think Pakistani, although I wasn't sure if I caught that they referred to him as a limey, so I'm not sure if he was basically Irish or Pakistan or But but what I think, what I think potentially is this is kind of maybe an almost a nod to verbal's kind of retailing and kind of you know, maybe China. There's there's some weird things going on in
the storytelling. Like there's a point where, if you remember at the start the lineup Benicia del Toorous character Fence, there is wearing this kind of like white sorry, a red seventies shirt with like the big lapels, and that's he's got a certain look going on. When Kobayashi actually visits him in that pool room, Gabrielle Burns character Keaton
is wearing that shirt. So I think there are these little things along the way that they drop the kind of because basically what verbal kent is is that what we call an unreliable narrator, where you know, when Morgan Freeman narrates the Georgshak Redemption, we have no reason to disbelieve him. Yah. And and when when Henry Hill does it in Good Fellas, you know, there's maybe maybe more reasons to maybe not be you know, one hundred percent believing what he's saying, but we tend, we tend to
go along with it. With this one, we don't. He's revealed at least to be an unreliable narrator where we don't quite believe what he is, what he's telling us, which is it's a great device because we get used to just believing the voiceover this the voiceovers are kind of been being developed to be this kind of godly kind of vice device to to inform us what is absolutely fact in movies, and for occasionally when they can slip in an unreliable narrator under our you know, under
our noses. It's it's a very powerful thing. So I think Ashi potentially because he's got he's got it's played by like an Irish you're an English act I think he's Irish, which has got a more behind the scenes stuff. But he's Pakistani, or at least appears to be Pakistani, and he's but he's got a Japanese name. So I feel like there's this is weird amalgamation of things that are just being made up in Berbel's mind. Obviously.
Yeah, it's interesting to talk about the narration the voiceover because it was really popular in the nineties with a lot of the films that we've just mentioned already in this podcast. The Fight Club is another one with the narrator.
And then do you ever seen that movie adaptation and with Necklace Cage And he's learning to do screenwriting, and there's a line in that that always rings around my head whenever there's a narrator and he's learning to do screenwriting, and he says that it's the laziest way to tell a story. And I don't know if I agree with that, but I always think of that every time there's a narrader.
No, it's a very it's a very big theory in you know screenwriting that it's a very lazy thing to do to do voiceover. Now, I think there's ways of doing it where it's it can be lazy, because the whole one of the big you know rules of screenwriting is show, don't tell, you know, you know, don't just have characters exposition and dispewing dialogue when you can actually
show somebody something, you know. It's like we we viewed the movie Sideways recently, which is one of my favorite films, again a perfect film, and the opening of that, you know, it's almost a montage with poor GM Marty running late to Thomas Haden churches and that if you look at that, that's all showing and not telling. You know, we we know everything about Paul GM Marty's character by those few scenes we see in the first two or three minutes of Sideways. So that's a really clever way of of
showing it not telling. So I think with this stary it works because he's an unreliable narrator and it's it's designed to send us astray. I think, yeah, you can argue Shawshank works because it's it's Morgan fucking Freeman. That's why it works. And it's just it's it's quite it's quite beautiful. And the other really good voiceover I think is Henry Healing and good Fellas. I think that's a that's a really good voiceover.
Yeah, it really is.
Yeah, I think you're right about Morgan Freeman. There's a word that we use in New Zealand for the comes from Mary called mana, and it basically means gravitas as probably the best way to sort of say that. And Morgan Freeman's voice has so much manna that you just trust it to tell you anything, wouldn't you, like, you're not going to go nah?
The guys full of it?
Yeah, I mean people sat through like a two hour film about penguins just Morgan Freeman was narrating it. I mean, yeah, that's I'm okay to watch if you a few memes about p winspit with that Footbagan Freeman's voice over in there and I'm there for the whole one hundred and twenty minutes. Thank you very much.
Well let's start. Let's because have you ever seen that of what's his name?
The bitter that come a beit so he can't say come abat, Oh man, it's too good.
Quenguin. I think he does.
At one point we actually we actually played it on this on this podcast once. It was hilarious. Okay, we we revealed the twist and we can come back to that. We can come back to that again. We'll work our way back towards it. But what did you so now that you go back to the start, and let's talk about the start. You said, you said you try to watch this film before a few times and had struggled to get through the first ten or fifteen minutes. That
surprises me. Actually, I quite like the start here. But tell me why.
Well, my first impression the very first scene is, and again it seems to be something that happened a lot in the nineties, was you play, you play the last scene or close to the end of the narrative first, and then everything's basically told in flashback, right, So you see that the last scene first, or towards the end of the film first. There's no doubt in your mind at that point what you're watching because it's got every film noir trick used, you know, it's got faces lit
by matches, it's you know, very smoking heavy. That's the thing I'd say about this film is that it wouldn't really matter what happened to any of these characters because they're all going to die of some sort of lung situation. In ten to fifteen years, I've never seen so much smoking in a film.
It's funny, actually, how Smoky's gone out like I remember we made the movie I Love You Too. That one of the directions from Village where like please know smoking, And we actually had a scene where my cat was going to smoke, but then I was going to put it that the joke was that I was I don't give it, taking up smoking that morning, but I was already quitting. And that was the only reason we were allowed to show a cigarette. So in Australia, the usual suspects probably wouldn't have been made.
No true, it's so anyway you see this very kind of film noire opening, I think the next then the next scene is the is the lineup?
Now?
I enjoyed the lineup. The lineup is great. The clip you just played before that is all great. I think it's the sort of the next set of ten minutes that I struggle with. There's so much exposition. There's so many names that are thrown at you. You're not sure who's who, You're not sure who's going to be important. There's the two cops chairs Palm and Terry, Who's got arguably the most obvious hair piece I've ever seen in films without it being ag like that that is that
is a rug that is a rug. And the other guy whose name I don't know, but he's great. He's always a cop. He's a cop and everything. He's fantastic actually thinking out shines pilmonary, to be honest. So there's a lot of there's just a lot of exposition in the first difference.
That is Gene Carlo Espanito, who he's like such a brilliant actor and if you've been watching, if you Breaking Bad, he's like, you know, the villain in Breaking Bad is the villain in the Mandalorian. He's He's also in a great series called Godfather of Godfather of Harlem, and he's he's he's great in that he's I saw him in a movie like not long before I think Usual Suspects.
It was around a time at least called Fresh and it was a great little film that nobody I've ever spoken to us seen that film, but it's a great little film called Fresh. And he was great in that movie, and I always remembered him, and I think this was the next thing I saw him in, and he's like, this guy's great. And then he's had this career kind of I'm sure he's been like a really solid working actor, but I'm loving him getting these opportunities recently and you know,
and nailing it. He is awesome. I love him. So, yeah, he got these cops that. I do agree that there are a lot of names, not just that the five characters to get the names, but also you know, the Turkish names, the and the and new names that get get thrown up all the time. I think it is then trying to distract us, but I think they are playing a bit of a game of those you know, cups under the balls and w moving the cups around.
Yeah.
I mean, I wrote some notes and one of my first notes is McManus chustion Mark. So I don't know if Steven Bulmer's character it was was.
Modeled on Rove. I mean very similar, very similar.
And weirdly, actually, Ben every morning when I rocked up to do Rove Live wrote the first thing Ray would say to me was give me a fucking kisy, fucking cocksucker.
There's that. By the way, I think it's the of all the films I've ever seen, it's probably got the highest cocksuck account. It's not an insult that is used, and probably for good reasons, very good reasons. But there's a lot of of that throwing about, not just in that scene, but in other scenes as well. It's pretty casual.
Yeah, it is a casual What did you I mean? Is it a kind of movie that you would go back and watch again because it is one of the odds I think out of other films, but I think twist films are generally great to watch a second time because you can watch it again and you know, see the things, you know, little easter eggs perhaps you missed. Do you think on a second viewing your opinion would change? Mure it would it be boosted?
Oh?
Yeah, I think it definitely would because there's look what you just said before about the unreliable narrator. That's really interesting and I hadn't really thought about that and how these little details that'll be mixed or changed around to give you kind of clues. Of course you wouldn't pick them up as clues necessarily, but if you go back and watch them a second time, yeah, those will really
pay off. It is it is a film that once you get through that for me anyway, that's for the sort of first fifteen minutes and you are locked into the plot, it really is rewarding and not just the twist, but it does. Yeah, it just it does build properly. I was also going to say, even though that opening scene is so sort of classic noir, you know, which is a very old genre of film, they do drag it into the nineties with one very very subtle thing
sideways gun. They use the sideways gun. Now, I'd never seen sideways gun are used until pulp fiction, right, and then suddenly it was everywhere. Everywhere it was and apparently I've never shot a gun, but according to gun people, it's very inaccurate and you shouldn't.
It's not how you should a gun. It's just not how it's designed.
Well, it's it's it's execution style, isn't it. So I guess, I guess you are trying to get close. But you're right. So sideways guns came into their own it's probably gone away a little bit now. Perhaps it's a bit like when when in the odd War films where they used to stray away their guns they go bang bang bang, throw away their gun.
Yeah that's right.
Yeah, I used to like a bit of that as well.
Yeah.
One of the things I love about the opening scene is the the slow, the slow move into those ropes on the dock that we suspect somebody is there behind watching and then as the film progresses, we assume it's a it's verbal verbal Kent. It's what I love about that is I've seen this film a lot, and I always kind of look into it to see if I can spot him, even though you know, now I know that he's he's not there, but I used like I used to think maybe maybe he's like either there from
a you know, just the actor. I can I can see actually the actor kind of standing there, or maybe he's there at the beginning of the film but not when they go back to it at the end. But I think it's I think it's beautify a beautifully crafted shot. They did get Kevin space you just stop. You may remember as he walks when we see him later on walking into that shot, there's some tires there and he
basically stopped. It was told to stop behind the tires, and he's basically hiding behind the tires, so he doesn't because it's all one shot. And but I think that I remember for me thinking, Okay, what the fuck are this erupts about what's what was supposed to be there, and that That was a bit of a hook for me when I first saw it.
So can I tell you I watched this and this is probably sacril, but I watched it on an iPad in bed last night, and when that heavened, I put the brightness up because I thought I was missing something.
I was like, well, why are they shooting these ropes? Is this something in there? I should be saying, But no, it's just ropes.
In the end, it's just ropes. This is awesome. It's uh, that's awesome. Even even when he even when he pisses the flames out like it is a heavy it's a heavy flow. If it's a very, it's a very, it's it's a good stream. I reckon at my age now I'm forty seven, I think it would have been evaporated by the time would have got down there. To be honest, it's much.
More like, yeah, it's actually quite refreshing, the vegetables and the clima nugget.
But weirdly, weirdly, not only does it say the purpose of actually distinguishing the flames, there is actually like a reference point where he talks about when he was a kid and he gets dehydrated, he gets really snotty and he gets he gets really thick piss. It's like even that even that there is a payoff for the thick piss.
It's very visceral. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but that's that's very true. Yeah, he's got a healthy prostate. He might have a club foot, but he's got a healthy prostate.
But but does he Okay, you're watch it in his iPad, I'm not sure better the film. The other thing that you may have missed, I know I missed it the first few times I saw this film was that when he collects those things on the way out. Do you remember what he collects on the way off the boat? No? When so when he's released from jail right at the end and he picks up you know when you when you get arrested, you they take your belongings off you, and then you you know, gold watch, gold lighter, and
some cigarettes. And if you remember, you see all those things in that opening scene, Yeah, because you have, he mastered a cigarette. He likes a cigarette. And then later I note reveals his face, which I love the reaction by the way of Gabriel Boer when he sees it, you know, which is you know, is like you can't believe it, but he kind of is almost like tip of the hat to you mate, yep, yeah you got me.
Yeah, that's yeah.
See, that's that's the stuff I'll go back and watch it again for because I didn't pick that up.
That's that's great.
But I did actually wonder at the time was this scene here and picking up his gear? I didn't really get it, but now it makes sense now.
Well then because also that you have McManus who comes out when he dies and he just says the strangest thing, which is actually what he says. He doesn't say that, he says the strangest thing, and which, to be honest, he would be more helpful if he had have said verbal ken is kinds of so so that would have been more helpful. Just get to the point.
So this is the thing I after I watched it, I did look up the Roger Ebert review because he hated it and.
The way he criticized it.
The way he criticized it was a he couldn't follow the plot, which if you read a lot of ebit reviews, that's a lot of his criticism of films, which starts to make me think he watched too many films, and that might be his issue rather than the film. But he sort of pointed sort of logic holes in it like that, and you wouldn't say that, and you wouldn't say this. And I don't think it's that film. I
don't think it's that based in reality. And yeah, I think right from the start you realize, you know, it's a film noir. It's it's like a western that it exists within certain kind of stylistic parameters. It is dramatic, it is theatrical, it is slightly over the top, and those kind of oh a person wouldn't do X and Y situation criticisms are not really valid.
Yeah, absolutely it has been how one of these more infamous reviews Roger Debritt. But let's ever listen, let's ever listen to we spoke before at paid possible, why, let's have listened to him in action as he approaches the gang and makes them an offer.
Which brings us to mister Kint. Nine months ago, one of mister Sose's less than intelligent couriers was taken in a complicated confidence scan by a cripple. He was relieved of sixty two thousand dollars. Now, it has taken us some time to find you. Our intention was to approach you after your apprehension in New York.
You set up the line up.
Yes, you are not to be released until I had come to see you. It seems mister Keaton's attorney, Miss Finneran, was a little too effective in expediting his release. Holding the rest of you became a moot point.
What about Redfoot?
Mister Redfoot knew nothing. Mister Jose rarely works with the same people for very long, and they never know who they're working for. One cannot be betrayed if one has no people. So why I'm telling you because you have stolen from mister So mister fensteron all of you that you did not know you stole from him is the only reason you are still alive.
He feels you all him. He will repay your debt.
Yeah, so, I mean we were already spoken about the slight weirdness of the performance and the accents in the all of that. He does then proceed to give him a little easter egg. He does proceed to give him the envelopes in the order in which they are killed. Oh okay, yeah, good, Yeah, that's been a forewarning. Did you what did you make of the gang or did you have a did you have a favorite one who you liked or one that he particularly didn't like?
Uh well, okay, so normally Alec Baldwin that I think was I don't know.
Which one he is? Is it Stephen.
Stephen, yes, Stephen? Yeah, okay, yeah, so is he? I never know which non Aleck. There're all just one entity to me, non Alec Baldwin's there's but I know that they are different people, and I know in the room, No exactly, these are great, Just just a little aside. Do you remember the plot in the Sopranos where Christopher is making against movie and he asks Sir Ben Kingsley to be in it. Yeah, and he turns it down, and then they get they make the movie anyway, and
they get a non Alec Baldwin. I don't think it's Stephen, it's another non Alec Baldwin to do it.
And he goes, yeah, he's fucking better anyway, that's great, that's he's going to keep moving on.
Yeah, you know, we wanted William Bordwind anyway over over so Ben Kingsley.
Yeah, but what I love about it is that is it?
William Baldwin? Is it? Yeah, so William Baldwin. He's in, He's in it. He's in like the Sopranos.
So he agreed to be the gag of oh we really got a shitty actor instead of Sir Ben Kingsley.
Presumably he needed the work.
That's great.
I loved it, loved it.
Yeah, he's so over the top of Rove McManus and.
I love Kate.
I love Kevin Pollock like a few good Men's one of my favorite films. He's so good in that. I've been watching The Marvelous Missus Maisel. I think it's one of the best TV shows to come out in recent years. He's so good in that. He's good in this, but it's like the least rounded character of all of the gang. So I think my favorite. And it's such a great decision to make. To be unintelligible, it's Benicio de Toro.
Yeah, and that was his decision. He wasn't written like that. Apparently it was kind of written for more like a Harry Dean Stanton type, and Benicia del Toro had this idea and they went with it, and they leant into it to the point where often a lot of the things he is saying, the actors was encouraged to just add lib around, but a bit to the point where when they're in the cell and he said he says, like,
who saw the truck? But he says it, you know, it's unintelligible, and Pollack actually says, what was that or what did you say? And he repeats it, and that was just Pollack literally not understanding what he said. So I think it's great.
Yeah, you know what's weird about the Gang is that Stephen Baldwin, his character dies and it's like they don't show it. It's such a strange I guess editing choice that they must have filmed that scene. They do not show how he gets killed, and they just did just on the beach with his dead body and he's like a major character and you know, it's a pretty important plot point. But yeah, it's just a strange decision to make to not show it.
It is always fascinating when a death of a you know, primary character isn't shown. Although it's always it's weirder when like, at least we saw his last words. I feel like if if a character dies and they're just dead on an arrival if you like. As far as the camera, you know, it's weird, but we do see him, his last words being you know, the strangest thing, and then he dies. Like there's a lot of controversy in the I think was it last Jedi Rise of Skywalker when
Admiral Akbar was was murdered, was killed off screen. Yeah, this kind of it was still a bit of a fringe character, but it became it like a you know, a cult hero if you like, you know, and he was killed off and we just learnt about it. It's oh, by the way, Admiral Akbar is dead. It's like, hang on.
Not quite the same outpouring of grief when Jarjar died, obviously, but no, I've actually got something wrong. It's not it's not it's not Stephen Baldwin that's dead on the beach, is it. It's it's Finster, It's it's Benicio de Toro.
Yeah, yeah, And I reckon, I reckon he was probably not main enough at that stage. I think the shock of it kind of worked, like I wasn't expecting him to and even that die just yet I thought they would probably you know, there'll be some kind of heightst or something, you know, like they know that I thought that, yeah, there was Yeah, I wasn't ready for that, to be honest.
And and but I know you mean, it is weird when you see somebody, yeah they're dead, that they die off camera and we don't get to spend a last moment with them. But he was certainly he was certainly the standout for me, Like because I'd never seen him before. This is the first time I've ever seen beneath you Adel Toro, Like you probably you're probably coming to this seeing many of his films over the years, So I was really curious as like, oh, well, I want to
this actor with the speech impediment. I really wonder what his what his next role is going to be, Like you know what, I must say, this also is a film in a way about the invisibility of people who have disability, like this is there is like both from I think from Chas Pedimentary's character's point of view, Dave Kuyong, but also the audience. I think we kind of don't expect him to be capable of of being the guy,
if you know what I mean. And and and it's set up and we are we are forced into that well, we are guided into that corner by Acousta macquarie's script. But there's there's constant, you know, like references to him not being good enough and stupid, both both by himself putting himself down and also by by Dave Koyong, and even the way that he is treated by the other
the other criminals. You know, Keaton punches him in the gut and you know, he says he's gonna be pissing blood for a week and they have a laugh and all that. But it's basically we don't expect him to be capable, you know at all?
Yeah, I guess it's part of his rose, isn't it? As the.
Is the disability. This is not a word they used once. They use They use crepple a lot. I'm not sure that word is used widely anymore.
Yes, And there's a few words. There's a few words that have maybe you don't see on the big screen anymore for the better, I think. But what do you what do you think of Dean Keaton? So did you believe he was what did you believe he was? Kinds of sociated? I guess also, And did you believe he was if not kas of did you believe he was a good guy?
I genuinely was taken on the ride that he had reformed. So it was when when it's first revealed that he's kinds of Sosa, which of course he isn't, I went, I thought that was as I said before, I thought that was the twist because I did go along with the ride that he was reformed and doing it all for love of the one female character in the entire film who gets three lines.
Yes, yes, it's a male heavy cast. Absolutely Well, let's let's have a listen to the way he the way his master plan was sold by agent Dave Kyong to Verbal Kim.
She was found yesterday at a hotel in Pennsylvania, shut twice in their head?
What do you think about Keaton now?
Verbal?
He used all of you to get him on that board. He couldn't get on alone.
He had to pull the trigger himself to make sure he got his man, the one man that could identify him.
This is all bullshit.
You said you saw him die or did you you had to hide when you first heard the police, cause you said you heard this shot before the fire, but you didn't see him die.
I knew him.
He would never He programmed you.
He programmed you to tell us just what he wanted you to.
He knew we were close.
You said it yourself. Where was the political pressure coming from?
Why were you being protected? It was Keaton?
Immunity was your reward?
Why not?
Fester and mcmanister. Hockney White me, I'm stupid, I'm a cripple.
Why ma, Because you're a crippled verbal because you're stupid, because you're weaker than them.
If he's dead, if what you say is true, then it won't matter.
It was his idea to hit the taxi service, and he wasn't it.
Come on, tell me the truth.
When we followed him from the.
I didn't know. I saw him die.
I believe his dado right. So there you go. Not only was she she had three lines, but she's also executed. And then we heard Dean Keaton's master plan. And it works so well that the fact that Dave Kong chas Bellervantery's character is so smarmy. And again you just heard because because you're weak, because you're stupid, that it actually it makes the ending even more satisfying. You know that he has he has beaten his little David Goliath battle going on that verbal has won.
Yeah, I I've just realized that. I think this is another little easterig to go back and see. I thought during this scene where Kevin Spacey is pretending to cry, I I just wrote down best actor question mark because there was no tears coming out of his eyes at all, and I actually thought it was really it was not good acting. But as it turns out, he's acting acting.
Yeah, So it'd be interesting to know whether the Kevin Spacey was trying to actually get a tear up or if he was doing And I suspect, you know, credit where credits due. He's very good at the acting. He
probably knew it was. There's a there's a great little moment that you may have seen or you may have missed, but where Kuyong is behind him and he's talking about Dean Keaton and he's actually got a smirk on his face and as he comes around and he just as he as he moves into verbal Kin's periphery, he actually drops the smirk and becomes like so almost downtrodden again.
So if you see that, I reckon that that tells us that he knows exactly what he's doing, and those probably that is him acting acting sad.
Yeah, that's what I'm going to go with too, because otherwise it was just a really bad performance in that scene. So yeah, I think you know, for all of his many faults given Spacey, it's the one thing he could do.
It was the old acting.
The old acting. He was very good. Let's what did you What did you make of the Kaiser? So say legend. Maybe let's say we'll go straight into it. Let's have a listen to the setting up of the legend, the myth, the spook story that he is Kaiser.
So say, he kills their kids, he kills their wives, he kills their parents and their parents' friends. He burns down the houses they live in and the stores they work in. He kills people that are money and like that, he's gone underground. Nobody's ever seen him since he becomes a myth, a spookstory that criminals tell their kids at night, rat on your pop and Kaiser will get you, and no one ever really believes.
Do you believe in him?
Verbal Kidon always said, I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him. Well, I believe in God and the only thing that scares me is Kaiser.
Did you buy into the scariness of the legend?
I definitely did, And it reminded me of uh. I think his name is shockheaded Peter, which is this thing that they have in Scandinavia which is kind of like the anti Santa Claus and and and if you're you know, like good kids, good kids get like prisons from Santa Claus, and bad kids get shock into Peter, who comes and cuts their thumbs off if they suck them at the table.
That's what it reminded me of.
Is he also known as Black Peter.
That's what it's called Black Peter.
Yeah, there's been a copy actually going on there. It's a deeply weird custom over there, like the Scandinavians. We got some Danish cousins and sometimes they come over on my wife's side and they we play this game where you basically everybody that brings up presents and they're usually like they're kind of you know, low five gifts, you're
nothing too extravagant, and a mix of gifts. I sometimes people buy this like wrap a tin of gravy and wrap it up and put it on the table, and other things will be more useful, more useful things, and you basically everyone crowds around a table and then you spin the dice and if you get six, you take a present and you start loning up presents. Everybody's spinning the dice and and then the second round, so you might end up with six presents and or you might
end up with no presence. And then the next round is that you start you do the same thing, but the next you're just stealing presents, So you're basically stealing presents off people. And you see adults stealing off kids and it's like it's it's quite, it's really fun. But when your kids are younger, like quite your todd toddlers and having gifts stolen off them by their grandparents, it's like it's it's weird. They do things differently in Scandinavia.
Yeah, this is what happens when you don't see the sun for six months a year. You know you're inside. You've got to come up with something. And by the way, shock headed Peter, I've just been reminded and by Google. I believe it's the German version of black Peter.
I imagine you got that from somewhere. Imagine that name didn't just lodge in your head out of nowhere, would have been with what I do love bet about that. The Kai legend is the idea that he has the will to do what other men worry, which is and so you know, graphically he comes home, his wife has been raped, and you know these kids are being basically held hostage, and he decides to shoot them the show and kill his own family to show his enemies what the will of the will that he has that they'll
never have. I don't condone that sort of behavior. Let me just say this, we've got to do all ab our caveats caveats on this show. Yeah, it's just it's just behind the camera. There's some you know, full on stuff. Don't just don't do it.
Don't do it, no, I mean sometimes they might need their bites though.
What is amazing I think really clever about that later on is when they think they're about to take out Kabayashi and then he kind of flips it on them and says, do you mind before you kill me that I make it author Ev Gabrielle Burns's girlfriend, and then they realize he has a basically held hostage downstairs in a meeting, and then they take him down there and he kind of knows they're going to let him go, and he says to them, you know, I may only
kill your uncle. I may only cars straight your nephew, you know, mister mc madison. And he goes through who is going to kill from their family members, and none of them, of course, would proceed under those under those circumstances, because they don't have the will that Kaiser sos has. It's a really nice and clever way of reminding you that, yes, these guys are bad guys. We've seen them do bad things, but they're not at the level of Kaiser sos No.
And so this might be a dumb question, but is that true? So that story that verbal tells about Kaiser Sosa killing as his own family essentially the show how tough he is, is that true or is that just part of him pumping up his own legend.
Well, this is the thing, because we have an unreliable narrator, we can discuss all of this because we don't really know. We don't really know if Kaiser Sosa is a real thing. I mean, he certainly doesn't have the bon Jovi locks and walking away from the flame that he did in one of those shots where we see him after he's
burnt down. I thought he's been heavy handed to Kaiser Sos, I mean, burning down his enemies and their enemy families and their end of these family's friends, I thought was too much.
Yeah, you've got some of the families, I reckon, Yeah, you've got someone who's just been around for a dinner party once. I mean, are they are they in danger?
You know? How good of friends are we talking?
I was in a neighborhood watch group, That's all it was.
I used to play bridge with Janana.
But the thing is we don't even know, so we don't know what's true and what's not. All we know is that Kaisa so say or verbal can I guess? Is Kaisa Sosa now whether whether he'd done all those things? We do not know. I mean, it seems weird to me that the police don't seem to be that Kaiser Sosa isn't high on the police's radar before this time, that he's killed all these people, even though it may have happened abroad, but it still wouldn't be on their radar.
But we don't even know. To be honest, is Kabe. There's a theory that Kabayashi could be Kaija Sosa, that he was actually the one pulling all the strings. I think. I think Christopher Macquarie in his script kind of leads us to believe that it is definitely verbal who is Kaisassa though that's certainly what I take out of it.
Like I said, whether all those other things happen, and that's it's been built up as a legend to kind of to help his you know, his empire, his criminal empire is up the debate.
Yeah, so I get Yeah.
So the theory is like, like, there's that theory that William Shakespeare was not a real man. It was just a collection of people who wrote place in the similar style, and that like towards the end, particularly of his career, it was all the students writing for him.
So you think that's it.
So Kayle's Assocai could be a collective just feeding into the idea of one one individual.
Ben Hurley, are you coming on my podcast and suggesting that William Shakespeare was ghost written? I don't want to get sued. The opinions of my guests are not reflected by the opinions of this specific broadcast. Is Shakespeare Incorporated are listening? Do not please, do not sue?
Right that?
And Happy Birthday. Finally that I think you can you can make the admit that it is true. I think it's more likely that it actually has been a legend that has been fan flamed by verbal and whoever Pete poss the way it is.
Yeah, I guess that's the ongoing thing, isn't it. And I do like a movie that you know, leads leads a few questions at the end, and I'm knowing too many questions, but I do like those ones. And you know what I often do this. I watch a film, I enjoy it, I don't enjoy it whatever somewhere in the middle, and then if I find somebody who I can talk to with about it's the more I talk about it, the more I enjoy it. And that's what's happening right now.
Well, this and this is what has happened quite a few times on this podcast has happened kind of recently with Josh Lawson and The Last Picture Show. It certainly happened in the early days with Limo and with Nail and I so and that's why I remind everybody that you are still processing this film. This is a film that I've probably seen twenty times and I love it.
So I'm glad and I'm glad. I'm glad because and this is the beauty of doing this podcast, Ben, It's we have these dreams of you know, like we romanticize the idea of going to a movie and then with some friends and going to a bar afterwards and discussing the film, but that never actually happens. You know, as comedians, we often see movies by ourselves at eleven a m.
Yeah, that's that's absolutely right, And you know, sort of the plot holes or whatever, they're not really plot holes. The plot's pretty water tight, I guess. But the little criticisms that I read online of it, they don't seem to matter as much. My only bugbear is, you know, just to remind you if you haven't seen it in a while. One of the big ways of revealing that verbal Clint is Kuy's associay is through a police skitch artist that it's thing described his features through a badly
burnt Hungarian man through a translator. Hungarian notoriously one of the most difficult and complex languages on Earth, and somehow they come up with a pretty good rendition of a rendering rather of Kevin Spacey. I'm not sure through that many filters you're going to get a really good picture.
I agree, I believe. I believe it was actually in real life. It was actually sketched by arn Do as well, which show goes over there in New Zealand and also a great a great another good thumbs up for you know, old technology in movies because that facts machine like it just builds. It built that tension beautifully. That was an email or a text message, then verbal doesn't get away.
Just I think that definitely the best excuse of effects machine n film. There should be there should be an award for it. It should be, you know, if not an oscar a golden globe, but it definitely wins there.
It also is it's a it's a well crafted shot because you have Dave Kong running out and then it just pans down to the facts facts as it's coming out of the machine where where mister Ginlo Espinito is takes it. In fact, let's have a listen to the final scene before we get into some fun facts and the wrap. It is the final scene one of the great endings of a movie. The petty dropping moment is there. Let's just take it all in.
If we creeping scumby that works the street for a living will know the name of verbal kills.
The cripple.
Did you see them?
The cripple?
Which where did he go?
He went out there? I know you know something.
I know you're not telling you say something.
I'm smarter than you, and I'm going to find out what I want to know, whether you like it or not.
Just explanation is never that you know what I'm getting?
Come on, person, do you think.
The street know archie? Criminal? Looks it all?
Somebody with power? There was somebody who was capable Kaiser.
It is close to getting caught and sticks his head out guys.
Because you're stupid verbal because.
I want to know the game, the whole. If he comes up for me.
I'm sure, kidness, Dad, I can't th.
First thing I learned on the job, you know what it was?
How to spot a burner?
Tell me you got the crippled there from New York. You mentioned kai who after that? My guess is you'll never hear from him again. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist, and like that he's gone.
I mean either picture perfect ending. In my book, that quote the greatest sutent the devil Everpool was givens the world he didn't exist. It's actually not an original lied by Christoper macquarie. Actually is a French poet or philosopher bother Leary or something. You know, I'm not across my French poets, and i won't pretend i am. That was a quote taken from from him. I mean, give us your top three French poets early.
Come on, ah, Jimmy Pelle Fromage I just saved. My name is Cheese, so that my emperor than Frenches.
So I asked you earlier about the penny drop moment when the coffee mag with Kobayashi on the bottom was revealed. What was your reaction when you saw the walk the limp kind of straightened up into a stride.
I just want to take it back for a second, because he's a really beautiful bit of filmmaking in that. Because we've talked about the double twist, and I think
the movie's over when they go right. So Gabriel Burne is kind ass say right and then the two cops just have a casual chat for about a minute about how messy his officers and oh, you should see my garage, and you kind of think, well, there's obviously is gonna be something else here, surely, But they kind of have this casual chat and then he drops the mug, and I just think it's a beautiful bit of filmmaking because it's it almost it's almost the way that they chat
is almost unlike any other part of the film in how casual it is. And and so then when he drops the mug and there is the penny drop, it's even more dramatic. Yeah, I think I didn't see the I didn't even think about his disability disappearing. That was just an added little extra, you know, they revealed that it's him, and that's that's you know, it's a great twist. And then you know, and then he walked, he walks
off a club foot, never been done before. Uh, and yeah, it's just it's just a lovely little but and then he gets in the car with Pete postle plate and it's slightly confusing. I had to go back and kind of uh step that one back a little bit.
It would have been It would have been an instring choice if if like Pete Postlewait rocked up and he was he was wiping the makeup of with some cleanse wipes, it would have been a brave choice, I think. But I like what you said about I like what you said about the conversation. I how about his messy because it feels like, yeah, he says, I uhould see my garage, And it could have been another brave choice. Would have had them like throwing their heads back, laughing and end
with like eighties montage. You know, it felt like that kind of moment. But I do love I do. I do love a moment where a movie convinces you it's this is it, it's done. We've had that fun and it's ended, and I think taking that time and then
it just kind of ship. The cabin of shifts over, the chaz pedal, the tiery and then this slowly goes in and he as soon as he sees that quartet from Skokie, Illinois at the bottom of the court board, it's it's on, and then it's red Foot and then it's the the you know, the the obese person on on the you know, matching up with the Orca you know he was he was orco obese, you know, like it was that kind of and it's just it's on for young and old and and yeah, I I buddy
love it. I think it's a it's awesome, mate. Some fun facts before we do finish up. Verbal in Turkish, sosey in Turkish means verbal and kaiser in German means means king. So our Turkish and German listeners may have figured this out before we did on first watch. Yeah, yeah, apparently the when Redfoot they meet Redfoot in California and he flicks a cigarette and it gets bored with and right in the eye. That was supposed to hit his chest, but he missed and got him right in the eye,
and they just they just kept that take. But that was an accident.
It's the only it's the only casting choice that takes me out of the film. And Redfoot is the bad guy in the mask Jimmy carry the mask, and I went, oh, this is the bad guy from the mask. I haven't seen him many anything since nineteen ninety three.
Well, he was obviously hot for a couple of years, because past ninety three, this is ninety five, he was doing all right shot for six million bucks over thirty five days. It's a pretty incredible, incredible effort. The title of the film is taken from Casablanca. There's a line, not quite a throwaway line, but one of the police officer, the main police officer in that film says, the Humphrey Bogart gather up the usual suspects, or round up the usual suspects. I think it is.
So that's really interesting because it's a phrase that gets used a lot. Now it's the usual suspect, isn't it? And I always assumed it came from this film. And there's another phrase that people use a lot, sliding Doors, And you know, that's that's kind of not a particularly well known film necessarily, or it wasn't silly. It's not a not a classic, let's put it that way. But it's a phrase that's used all the time. And I always wonder which one predated which.
I reckon the sliding Doors one was that was around, but it wasn't popularized. And then that's movie Sliding Doors, quite an underrated little kind of romantic comedy actually, and that kind of then gave us something to hang on to it. And sliding Doors became a Yeah, certainly was popularized I think after that movie, and I think Your
Usual Suspects was definitely popularized after this movie. There's an issuing moment the start of the film when he's when before Keaton gets shot, where he asked for the time and he says, I think it's twelve thirty, and as we see and that that's in the film for two reasons. One the one show I think the show the gold Watch, because at times have no relevance. I remember when I first saw it, I was like, okay, twelve thirty, remember that twelve thirty, and then nothing really happened. But but
one of things to see the gold Watch. The other reason it's there is they had another plot and they had shot this, but I cut it out where Keaton had also planned a bomb in the to go off at a certain a certain time, so he was asking for the time in relation to the bomb. So it doesn't necessarily work for the same purpose, but it does work. You can imagine sometimes people want to know what time they're going to die, you know. And and also we get to see the gold Watch.
Yes of course, yeah, okay, that makes sense.
And finally, and this is I mean, I wish it was a more fun ef fact. But just to go back to those claims Kevin Spacey, this production actually is to see how it goes back potentially apparently. I think Pollack and Garbriel Byrne have confirmed this like it was. Production was actually shut down for two days because there was a complaints kind of a sexual harassment complaint made against Kevin Spacy. So great actor ship like.
Yep, it seems that way bit of a shit bloke, Yeah.
I think so. I think so. Hey, mate, bloody hell, thanks for watching a movie for me and hanging out with me bloody good times.
I've had an absolute ball.
Thank you very much for making me watch this film finally and punch through those first fifteen minutes because it was rewarding and I've definitely, as I said before, enjoyed it more.
The more I've talked to you about it.
I love to hear that it's not necessarily needs to be needs to be the case, but I love to hear it. Mate. I can't wait to catch up with you in person again. It's been too long. Hopefully we get you over to OZ for maybe a few gigs together, or I'll get over to n Z. Or maybe we'll do both of those.
Things, or we could maybe meet halfway in like Norfolk Island.
Let's do that. There's a massive comedy circuit in Norfolk Island and the Hurley and Hellier show coming to you Northfolk. Let's announce it right now. It's happening, Hellier Hurley Norfolk Island. Dates to be released soon. There you go, Ben Hurley and myself chatting all things Kaiju. So say, I think you liked it a little bit more at the end than he did at the start. I think he came around and I always love that. I hope you enjoyed the chat too. And the movie, yeah, I think it's
a classic, certainly a classic ending, certainly a classic final lack. Obviously, there are some problems around some of the key creatives in that movie, but I think we covered that off earlier in the chat. So thanks Ben for that, mate. I really appreciate that this podcast comes with homework. Obviously. If you're in New Zealand, you can see Ben touring around on seven Days and he'll be on Patriot Games shown both in New Zealand and Australia. In Australia on
SBS SO check Ben out there. He's bloody hilarious. Hopefully I'm going to get him across across here. We might do some shows together. I would love that. And Island here we come. Speaking of shows, Deconstructed Oragami is my new show. I'll be cheering around tickets around sale already in Sydney, Canberra, Brisbane and Adelaide, so Melbourne and Perth. Tazzy was more regional dates we'll be announced later. Sometimes you can get them all in or your ducks in
it right at the same time. Sometimes you just gotta stagger the release of tickets. So yes, please, I'd love to see you at my Deconstructed Oragami show. I'm really I think it's going to be a real fun one. Okay, next week on the show. And you may have just actually noticed a slight change in the sound of the podcast, and I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what this is why Because that episode that you just listened to
was recorded in isolation. Ben was in New Zealand. I was at home and the great Derek Myers shaken off the the spicy spicy cough. What a hero who was still getting the job done. He was at his home so there was a three way kind of thing going on. Thank you Derek for pulling through for that episode. But next week on the show is a final episode for the year, and this is a new tradition. I want
you into nothing yet to begin. I will be announcing next week on the show my favorite, my absolute favorite film of twenty twenty two. In fact, I'll announced probably my top five, maybe even my top ten. We went there to be going into detail and depth, a real in depth discussion over all those films, but we will probably deep dive into my favorite film. I'm going to have a special guest. That guest is comedian actress Bloody
legend Susie Yusef returning guests. She joined us in Series one, all the way back in Series one, which you did Rebel without a She's a movie lover and she actually put me on to this movie that became my favorite movie of the year. It's funny when I get to the end of the year and I try to think
of what is my favorite movie of the year. I realized there are still so many great movies being made, and sometimes we bemoaned the rise of Marvel and Martin Scorsese will talk about that, but there are still great filmmakers out there. There are still great movies being made, and this was absolutely one of them. My favorite movie of the year. I'm going to tell you now so you can watch it and joining the discussion next week
with Susie. It came out early in the year. It was I think nominated for an Oscar in the Best Foreign Language category. It blew me away. There were a few movies up for grabs for this title. I thought it was a really good year, but the movie that really got to me. Directed by Joakim Trier, starring a stunning performance by Renate Ramsby, It is The Worst Person in the World. It was my favorite movie of the year.
I'll be chatting to Suzi Yusef about that movie and my other favorite movies of the year, but in particular we will be focusing on The Worst Person in the World and Norwegian film. It chronicles four years in the life of Julie, a young woman who navigates the trouble warders of her love life and struggles to find her career path. It is. It sounds like there's not much to it, and it's just one of those life studies of a film. I thought it was amazing. I know
port Thomas Anderson one of my favorite filmmakers. He raved about this film. So if you haven't seen it, check it out. It is on I believe. I think you can get it on you know like binge or foxtail. Check you streaming services. But the worst woman in the world check it out up and then Susie will join me next week for a great discussion about that. I can't wait to hear her favorite films of the year as well. Until then for a final upisode. You won't say nothing yet, take care bye for now, and
So we leave old Pete, save fan soul, and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night.