Hey, I'm Derek Gasney's podcast manager Pete would like me to point out that in this episode of You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, a scene involving rape is discussed. There is also some salty language, so use headphones if the kids are around. Also, this episode was recorded in ISO, with Alex in Boston and Pete in Melbourne, not in our usual comfy home castaway studios.
Enjoy give A.
I'm Peter Hally.
Welcome to You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, the movie podcast where I chat to movie lovers about classic or beloved movies. They haven't quite got around the scene until now.
Was it hoveral winther Treman's Mine poorer Hell?
Now?
Sixty percent of the time it works every time that doesn't make sense.
It's green Breeze for breakfast and nine very hundred.
Right now, You Ain't Seen Nothing You.
I first met Boston comic Alex Edelman after a Melbourne International Comedy Festival gala where we bonded over a couple of drinks, the Boston Celtics and Aaron Sorkin. Alex first on to the comedy scene, winning Best Newcomer at the Edinburgh Fringe in twenty fourteen, where he showed Millennial. I never got to see Millennial, but I did see He's Brilliant Just for Us, which covered one memorable night when he crashed a meeting of neo Nazis alex In because
you don't know it's Jewish. The show was spectacular and had him nominated for the Barrier Award in Melbourne and the Best Show at the Edinburgh Fringe. Alex is a true gentleman, smart as a whip, bloody, hilarious and great company.
Gooday, I'm Alex Adelin. My favorite films are Good Old Hunting and You're Not Gonna Found Me. I Feel the Dreams if you Feel what Happens Too, and The Truman Show. I think I'm mixed up in something, something big. But until last week I had never seen Thelma and Luiz.
Hans Zimmer doing what hans Zimmer does best In Ridley's Goss ninety ninety one feminist road movie classic Filma and Louise that sees Geena Davis and Susan Sarandon on the run from the douchebag men in their Lives is a celebration of freedommen of women breaking the shackles of their douchebag men. Alex Abelman, first of all, thank you so much for joining us.
Oh please, I mean you said, I feel like quarantine. A lot of people have been using this time to see stuff they haven't seen before, and and you know, we were texting and you mentioned I have a podcast of that, you know, folks who are seeing stuff they
haven't seen before. And I'm like, there could be any you know, I actually had three or four films that could have fit the bill with Thelma and Luis is clearly the you know, the one of this Quarantine for me, and it's one of those movies where as soon as they saw it, I'm like, oh, I see why people love this film. I see why. You know, it's become such a staple for American for American women and Americans in general. It's a great American movie. And so it's a lot of fun.
What I love about this podcast, alex Is is I love it when somebody says I haven't seen at you know, I get to watch one of my favorite movies again with somebody who's watching it for the first time. But even more so than that, I love watching movies that I haven't seen before. And it's come up a lot and already and Elman Louise was one of them. I had never seen this movie. I have no idea why,
and I feel kind of bad. I'm not sure how you feel about not seeing I feel bad for not seeing it, maybe because I'm also interviewing Hannah Gad's be in the morning, and I just feel like I feel like I should have seen Delman Louise by now.
Is what is Hannah pecked? Can I ask?
No, Well, Hannah, I'm interviewing Hannah.
At this stage for her show Douglas, So yeah, it's not for this, but I will be putting out the invitation of Hannah and I'll be interested to see.
What she does pick.
But I want to circle back to the films that you nominate before we get onto Thelman Louise. I did wonder, being a proud Bostonian, if Goodwill Hunting would make it in, and it did.
See I love Good Oill Hunting because well, first of all, I think, honest, all the movies that I peck have this. You know, you gave me thirty seconds ago. What are your favorite films? And myself, oh god, some of my favorite. I almost picked Spartacus because Kirk Douglas's autobiography is sitting on the desk next to me on my childhood desk.
We must stay true to ourselves.
I love Goodwill Hunting because it's such a great story about male friendship and uh, it's such a good story about an individual who has a crazy dream. And Field Their Dreams is a story about an individual who has a crazy dream. And Truman and The Truman Show is a show about an individual who has a crazy dream. And I love those stories. I love stories about about about a person, about people who are nuts frankly and
uh and and are compelled to do insane things. And so I mean, I think those stories are really resonant and really cool and uh, and Goodwill Hunting is it's so much fun. Maybe it's because I'm in Boston right now for for months I'm appreciating. Also, it's the movie. It's like the shash Ank Redemption, which is if you come across it on Kate. There's a law actually in Massachusetts that if you're scrolling through television channels and it's on, you have to stop whatever you're doing and wash it
until the end. And you really got to hope that you're at least halfway through the movie. Otherwise you're wasting you know, two hours of your life. But I've seen Goodwill Hunting probably five six times.
Do you think I know the first thing about how hard your life has been, how you feel, who you are. As you're making that point, it's the same thing popped into my head about Goodwill Hunting. And I think Shawshank Redemption is another movie that you mentioned that it fits in so perfectly you cannot stop watching it. You need to no matter what you're doing, no matter what moment the film is up. So you need to finish watching those movies.
You know, the scenes, each scene follows the other scene, the other scenes. Really well, everything in the movie. Those movies are very dense. Nothing, nothing doesn't happen for a reason, you know. There there there's nothing that comes out of left field. There's nothing that I'm sorry the movie surprises you. But but each but the story moves forward in a really pacy way. Like Shawshank. The story is constantly moving forward, and even if it comes from different directions, Frank Derabah's
screenplays really really pacy. And so what I love is a pacy movie, Like I think I have friends who are smarter than me, who like more ponderous stuff. But like, I love a movie where stuff just keeps happening, like Star Wars. Stuff just there's always something happening. And from the time that Luke thinks about leaving, you know, tattooing, until the end of Return of the Jedi, things just
keep keep going a real breakneck pace. And uh and so yeah, I love I love Good Will Hunting for that because it's it's easy in an action film for that to happen, but for it to happen in a movie about a janitor. Is That's why those good about a janitor. It's the best one. A lonely janitor vandalizes school property is a good way to sum up a good hunt.
There's bees and great janitor characters in movies before.
But you're right, I can't think of another movie that centers is the protagonist is the janitor. But I also I love sorry, I liked The Truman Show when it came out.
I quite liked it.
It was never one of my you know, my top absolute top films, but I watched it about two years ago because my son was watching had to watch it for school, So I watched it with him, and I just it was so much better than I had remembered. It was so maybe I got it more and it was so much it was so much more.
It was funnier than I remembered.
I mean, his best friend who keeps on coming around with a six pack of beers is just that made me laugh every time. And I don't think i'd noticed that when I watched it, you know, when I was younger.
Yeah, it's almost like he was. They got Jim Carrey and put him in his least funny role and it's still hilarious. And I mean he was. He's incredible in that movie. It's his best movie by far. And Noah Emmerick, who plays the friend, is a really great actor who's been in like TV series like The Americans, and he's played the best friend of a million different shows. But he is he's crazy talented. Is that Peter is Peter?
We're in Australian, Yes he is, Yes, yeah, yep, And like yeah, that movie is directed really well and apparently the guy who wrote it, Andrew Nickel, took a crack at directing it, or took a crack at directing, like the first draft of his screenplay and the studio. So there's actually there's a lost screenplay that a friend recently
sent to me. There's a New York version of The Truman Show that takes place in New York and apparently somewhere, you know, at some studio in LA there's a room with with a with a print of Andrew Nichols attempt at trying to direct his own uh screenplay and they said it in New York and uh And apparently after like five minutes of shooting, the studios like, I'm sorry, no,
we need a director, we need to shoot this. We love you, but we needs to be like in a community instead of imagine The Truman Show in New York City, it's like pretty dark, like they keep engineering stuff for him to see. So like I think in Andrew Nichols original screenplay, he like sees a woman get get like punched in the face or something like that and has to decide what to do. And then and I think the studio is like, why don't we make it? Probably make it as a community and it's just him, So
it's a yeah, it's way better. I love I'm sorry, I don't know why I told you that. Like that's right.
I love that.
I love that, and you're you're you're a huge baseball fan. I'm noticed because you're very sweet. You gave me a book about some of baseball's kind of weed rules, and I'm not across baseball as much as I'm across basketball.
It was a great book.
I've always maybe I haven't thanked you for that, but I loved it, So Field of Dreams comes as nice surprise.
I love Field of Dreams because it's the best baseball movie for one reason, which is that you don't need to know anything about baseball to enjoy the movie. Most sports movies have this big problem, which is, I think your listeners are going to be like, boy, this guy loves storytelling. But like the problem with Field of dream I'm sorry. The problem with every baseball movie that's not Field of Dreams is that it always comes down to
whether or not someone can win the big game. And Field of Dreams just a movie about a dad and a son, and the son wants to play catch with his dad, and so the movie is really I have seen hard men cry at Field of Dreams, Like my grandfather doesn't cry anything, but I saw them cry at Field dreams like I've never seen you know, I've never seen my grandpa cry, but like, and I've mentioned it to a I mentioned it to a friend last week and he said to me, I saw a screening of
it in like Hollywood at you know, one of those fancy like writers Guild theaters or something where everyone's a writer. And at the end of the movie, all these like guys who've seen a million movies and sappy movies and every kind. He's like, I look around the hitter and everyone's crying, and he's like, this is not the kind of thing when people cry. It's like an industry screening of it. And yeah, it's the number one movie that will make an American boy cry because it'll make them
think of their their dad. So yeah, I just love the relationships between father and So. Have you seen that film, Peter.
I have, And it's come up a couple of times already in people's favorite favorite films.
And I've seen it.
It hasn't lived in my imagination and my heart to the point where when whenever somebody mentions it, I'm like, I go to watch that movie again.
I haven't revisited it since I saw it. I reckon. I must have been about twelve when I saw it.
Oh my god. I mean, I'm curious as the father, as the father of boys, I'm wondering. I'm wondering how you feel about it as a dad? Now, okay, hey, dad, you want to have a catch I'd like that.
I'm going to put it on my to do list to watch thriller Dreams again because I'm a big Kevin Costner fan.
I love sports movies.
Most Australians kind of, you know, we play a bit of catch up when we're watching American sports movies. We're going to go, okay, I think we know what needs to happen. Americans are less less inclined to do that with sports that aren't American sports.
But yeah, I love it.
I think baseball lends itself really well to sports for me, you know, even if it's you know, a league of their own or Major League. And yeah, Moneyball was once getting back to Aaron Sulkan, which was the most surprising baseball film of all.
Surely you know.
The funny thing is that I think there's a common threat in all my favorite movies, and it's a bit embarrassing, which is that I don't know if Australians have it. But Americans are so self obsessed that I think in a lot of the things that they watch, there's always a question which is like what does it mean to
be American? You know, like what does it mean to see this great nation and the different aspects of this great and because like, you know, I think Field of Dreams is like Baseball's there's a big subplot where like Baseball is a part of America, and Google Hunting is like, this is an American person trying to achieve the American dream just because he's so smart, you know, And the Truman Show is like this guy has has it all.
He's got a wife in a house, and he's got the American dream and like and so I think running through this is like is uh And even Thelman Louise is about this you know, exploration of America and uh. And I think a big part of it is they take this road trip across America, which is this this really this really amazing idea to you know, to Americans. So man, what a what a wonderful American thing to do?
Take take a road trip, and so like, I don't know if Australians have the same thing, because like I don't I don't know if anyone watches Mad Max and they're like, what does it mean to be Australian?
Do you want to get out of here? You talk to me? I remember? Uh? The one of the great American croon is jum bon Jovi to a dad and.
And that sentence or that.
It was for his solo album, which was called Destination Anywhere, and about that idea of jumping in a catalog, you know, and and taking across the yeah, the United States. And he said to the audience during you know, one of the you know, the interludes or whatever, he said Australia, I've got a tank full of gas and a six pack of beer.
Who's coming with me?
And the bloke behind me I'll never forget yelled out. Oh come John, but you're gonna need a shipload more beer.
That's what it means to be Australian.
Oh my god, that's so funny.
Nineteen ninety one, Delwyn Luise comes out? Were You Born? That was two good?
Two?
Okay, so no excuses. You could have seen in the cinema. What did you know about it before going in? What did you what did you know You know.
The funny thing about Tomma and Louise is that it's one of the few films I've seen where I knew the ending before I started it, because the ending has been parodied so many times or mentioned so many times. And you know what, I'm actually not going to say exactly what happens at the end, just in case someone has sort of been able to navigate their life without knowing the ending of Film and Louise and is listening
to this podcast and getting excited. I'm like, well, everyone knows the ending, and they're like, no, wait, but.
This is this is the heavy spoiler podcast, So feel free if you haven't seen Film and Louise, turn off now and come back.
Yeah, have about hit the fifteen second fast forward button. In three two one, them and Louise drive their car off a cliff and that's the ending of bel and Louise. And I knew that going in because I'd seen it parodied and so many.
And so many.
Up we're ten seconds and that's the secret of life. I'm sorry you, but yeah, it's one of the view films where I kind of knew where it was going to happen. So I got to watch it going how does this build to this dramatic ending that I've heard about? How does it earn this radical ending, which is, you know, in a movie about female friendship, something that's so extreme. Uh, And so that was that's I knew that going in.
I knew that Brad Pitt was hot, so I was waiting for that because Brad Pit in nineteen ninety one Druele and and I was very excited to see exactly how hot Brad pet was, although I wasn't prepared for how hot Brad think his But.
Let's pot bread paint on one song, because there's a whole conversation we need to have that Brad Pitt. But it would it would be fitting with the film's things to discuss Brad Pitt before we discussed them.
So whatn't But but no, I didn't know. I didn't know. I knew hardly anything about the film. And also I'm not really familiar with the with the body of work of student Sarandon and Davis, so so I didn't know a ton about the movie going in other than that
it was a delight. And also I'm a huge fan of Kelli Ka Hurry, who's the screenwriter of the film and has done a bunch of great work since then, including the television show the wildly underrated critically wild critically underrated hit, a show called Nashville, which was sort of a show about the country music world in the United States, And so I watched it the last couple of years and was a big fan of her writing and and her TV work.
So I think she won the Best Origional Screenplay OSCO for this she did.
It was her debut screenplay, and it really it's a huge upset, and as was Goodwill Hunting by the way, their first screenplay. But yeah, it's it's it's a brave she was a brave announced as a brave new voice. So I was really cure to see how the story sort of executed itself. But but yeah, it didn't know much going on.
Yeah, I was a bit the same.
I think almost exactly what you said were my impressions and my frame of references.
For Thelm and Luise.
I knew how it ended, even to the point of the photograph the polaroid kind of swirling up in the air, and I knew Brad Pitt was hot. So those are the things in fact, to the point where the dramatic and you know, dramatic car park rape scene happened.
I was not prepared for that.
I thought Thelmon Luise was a much more kind of just just a fun girls, just want to have fun style movie, and I probably hadn't thought about it enough over the years. But when that happened in the car park, I was like, Ah, so that's.
That's what this is about. And I was a bit shocked, but I.
Couldn't believe it when I I saw it happening, and a friend of mine, I convinced a friend of mine one of my favorite actors is this woman, Natalie Morales, and she's a great comedy actor and a great dramatic actor. She's in the new series Dead to Me on Netflix if you haven't seen it yet, and she really really
like also one of the best people I know. And I told her that I read this, that I saw this movie and staid, Nat, if you haven't seen I'm blowing up her spot to someone who had never seen Thelma Louise recently, but I said, you got to see this movie and she and she texted me a couple of minutes in and I went, oh, man, there's a rape scene and I was shocked too, and I when I saw it, I couldn't believe. I couldn't believe it.
But also it gives the movie. It gives the movie a really it gives the movie a real like I don't want to be the guy, gives it its edge
that great it is. But it totally, it totally makes you aware of the stakes of the of what they're doing and sets up and sets up a thing that there are a couple of film critics who don't understand thomb and Louise, Like there's a there's a really horrible film critit named Kyle Smith who writes for the New York Post still and he wrote a scathing review a couple of years ago, like long after the movie come out about he.
Just won't let it go, right, he just won't let it go.
Yeah, now is the perfect time to take down Tom Louise. You know now that it's a beloved American institution, is selected as culturally significant, but the Library of Congress. Now it's time for me to make my stand. Thumb and Louise sucks hill and he says that it's anti men, and it's it's you know, lazily antimate and uh, and I don't think it is. I think it makes them. I think it really drives home that these women have been extremely underserved by the world that they live in.
And and that and that scene is very violent because up until then it is girls just want to have fun. It's you know, until then, the biggest shock in the movie is Thelma eats a snicker someone's left in the freezer, like that's the biggest thing. And then they go dancing. And but you know what I love about that is that Thelma felt like I can't remember who, I can't remember which character has which name. So Geena Davis's character
is almost yeah, okay. So Thelma is nearly raped but Louise doesn't, and Louise shoots the guy, but she doesn't shoot the guy while Thelma is being rape She shoots the guy from mouthing off to them afterwards. And I love that because it gives her character so much agency. You know, it doesn't because if if if she had done it mid assault, then uh, then Thelma, then then Louise.
You know, she didn't decide to shoot that guy. She and and by the way, every couple of scenes, uh Thelma, Thelma or Louise goes, should we go to the police? And uh, and the other and and and usually and usually Louise. But I think once Selma goes, no, we can't go to the police, and uh. And I love that it keeps reminding you of that, the movie keeps reminding you why we're doing this. But yeah, that that scene, that scene gives Thelma that you seem gives Selma and
Luis a lot of really sets everything up well. And it also it also really serves those characters in a really like fair way. The fact that the fact that she makes this decision to shoot this guy on her own because he's a bad guy, and like, it's it's that showdown afterwards when when uh, when Wesa goes, what did you say? And the guy goes, I should and just she blows him away. It's like it's a really it's a great moment. Actually it was a fucking asshole.
I'm gonna splatter your ugly bist all over this nuss car.
All right, Hey, hey, calm down.
We just had a little fun.
So it looks like you got a real fucked up i'dy of fun.
Turn around.
In the future, when a woman's crying like that. She didn't haven't any fun, bitch.
I should have gone ahead and sucked her.
What did you say, I said, suck my cock?
Oh my god, Oh my god, get the car.
Oh Jesus Christ, Louise, you shot him, Oh my god.
Yeah, it's completely satisfying. And you're right.
And there's a moment later in the film where they're having a discussion they're washing themselves in the in the sink outside the roadhouse, and and and Louise makes the point that you just made, like film is trying to say, we were justified, you know, and she's got no, we had.
We had already walked away. We had we had walked away.
And and so it's a great point you make, and up until then, because for the to get to where it gets to, with them doing what they do, you do need to be something as as horrible as what happened in the in the in that car park, as opposed to I think, you know, there are some really lovely ways they show how the girls are disrespected by the men in their in their lives, particularly Geena Davis's
husband Darryl. It's not necessarily subtle, but it's just stuff like you know, when you know, the first he made it by the way, Geena Davis's husband played by Christopher McDonald shoot McGavin.
I mean as as they saw, I was like, of course he's going to play this perfect track. And he's really such a piece of chef.
He was so good when he said when he says to her, that's what that's why you're not a regional manager and swings He's going to keys around and.
He's so proud of it. He goes out of regional man. You know what I love is first of all, that his job is that he sells carpets. Yes, that's what he's super proud of. And also when the police are questioning him for the first time, Sorry, you're standing in your pizza. Excuse me, you're standing in your pizza.
Oh shit, which apparently was a genuine mistake and they ran with it. Also when the police tell them they're going to tap their phone, and he asked if he has to pay for it, as you.
Know, we've tapped your phone in the event that she calls in.
Is that going to cost me?
And also when Thelma rings home and she's been gone for a few days and he's kind of like angry at her, but then he stops, he stops listening to her, puts the phone to his chest to watch some football game, explaining John what's going on in the situation, and he's not even he's not even listening.
So that there are really.
Lovely moments and ways they demonstrate it, but that's all that stuff's not enough for them to eventually do what they do at the end, you know, so you need that that that's saying the compact I think.
You know, I think about I've thought of. It's the thing I've thought about the most since the because I didn't know it came to such a surprise, and it's it's also you know, it's also not what the movie, the movie's got to really I think it's obviously it's an incredible feminist film, but the message of the movie is that, uh, you know, these two women are actually in very tough their status quo is very tough, and
all they have is this really good friendship. And the movie is about and you know, some critics, miss I have misidentified it, but clearly, clear really clearly the movie is about this wonderful female friendship and uh and and how it builds and how it's a true North for these women and how it's immortal and uh and yeah, everything is set against the background of this of this of this female friendship and because it's so authentic, it
makes the film totally riveting. But but yeah, my favorite, my favorite moment with Darryl is when the phone is tapped by the cops and uh and and Geena Davis calls in. Felma calls home and he goes honey, and she hangs up right away and she's like, you know, like like he's not even finished saying hello, but he's
on these night words. She's like, he knows. And again, the movie is so great because it reminds you every moment, but in a really organic way why stuff keeps happening and what is that speake and what is going on? And how these women can't catch a break and how uh. And Josh Harmon, who's one of my favorite playwrights. Every every week or so, Josh and I read it read a different play and catch up and we talk about
the play. And I mentioned that I had just seen Thelma and Luis this is a week ago, and Josh lit up, He's like, that's my favorite movie. He's like I've seen that movie dozens of times. He's like, I've seen it so many times, and he's like, do you know what's my favorite Why it's my favorite movie? And I'm like, because every scene follows the scene before it perfectly. He's like, yes, He's like, the structure is brilliant.
They're always reminding you of the states, like and Josh's Josh is a really really great grasp of dramatic structure, and and everything here follows the scenes before it brilliantly, and they re up the stakes on the road brilliant Like it would be so easy for this movie to be a turd.
Frankly, it's just the plot is a road trip. That's the whole movie. But it's it's totally brilliant.
It's what you're saying rung true. Because I was just listening to a conversation Lawrence Kasden where was having on the scriptnes podcast, which is a fantastic podcast if you're indo screenwriting or everyone should listen to it. The service that John August and Craig Maze and are giving to
anyone who loves screenwriting is amazing. It's better than any course you could do it in any book you can read and Lawy's Kasin was talking about Empire Strikes Back and I was talking about well, Craig Mazin was making the point that the great scene between Yoda and Luke where you know, Luca's achieved a sense of calm, they've got him to where he needs to be, but they know they can't. You need to sling shot into the next scene and you can't just have Luke being happy.
So the final line in that scene is Luke saying, I'm not you know, I'm not afraid, and Yoda says, you will be, and it's just it's perfect, It's just and it's just that idea of sling shotting you into the next scene. So there's there's there's you're leaving with intention.
My favorite line in that in the film is do or do not? There is no try because it just sets up. So it's another thing that reminds you of mistakes that like, it could be so easy for you to be like, as long as you try, that's the important thing, because that's the trope that we've seen so many times in a movie that the most important thing is to try to make the effort to go you know, and you know, it's like either do it or you don't. That's that's that's how this works. It's the fate of
fate of the universe, buddy. So so we gotta gotta be sharp.
And I mean Yoda kind of you know, introduced it. This is god of the point that they make. I'm borrowing it. Yoda introduced really the idea of zen and he sounds like a yoga teacher like, and that was he was the first one you of issues that idea to Western audiences.
Yeah, it's a great it's a great movie. It's right over there on my my shove. It's the movie I was Most those movies are movies I was obsessed with as a kid. But all these movies that I love seem to share this great DNA about people with you know, impossible impossible tasks, and each scene follows the other end. And uh, I mean, I'm wondering if you didn't know the ending in this movie, how you'd feel about the ending.
We often this has come up a few times in this podcast.
People like loving that they have finally seen Butchercassidy in the Sun, Dance Kid, or you know, Clockwork Orange And now for me, Thelma and Louise. And the thing you think about is like, wow, I imagine if I if I didn't know what happened at the end, or you know, imagine if if you know, I guess Dave O'Neill is that he imagine seeing Shrek is what Shrek for the
first time. So imagine not knowing that Princess Fiona, you know, you know, yeah, that was her story and a journey, and yeah, I thought about that after I saw it. You imagine if I didn't know that I actually we were about to do what they did.
Do you know? I think I don't want to misattribute it, but I think josh Harmon, the playwright, I was mentioning who loves Thumba? And Luis told me, I think this. Joshu told me this. Actually, I'm nearly certain told me something amazing I didn't know about it, which is that in the original version of the movie, a version that they screened for audiences first when they were testing it again.
Now fast forward in fifteen seconds. If we haven't seen the ending in three two one, but when the cargoes off the cliff, it hits the canyon floor and we see it explode, and that was the original ending of the movie, and audiences hated it, absolutely hated it. Couldn't couldn't get over that they were what they were seeing. And so really, Scott put in a fade to white before that happens, so you know what's what's happened, but you don't see you don't see this fate for your
favorite characters. And so audiences like that a lot more, like a lot, a lot a lot more. And I think there is something about the fade to white that makes it makes them seem immortal and like fixed an amber and is really uh is really perfect and so uh I had I admired that, uh, that that move. But you know, I wonder, uh, yeah, I wonder how it would feel if I just if I just got to experience it, I would I would feel upset because, uh, I know, I'd feel upset because I was upset by it,
knowing what was coming. I was visally disappointed because you know, sometimes I watch a sad movie or a movie with an ending that that is a bit of a downbeat, and I think to myself, well, maybe it'll be different this time. You know, I don't be a dozen times, but maybe maybe maybe he doesn't die at the end of this maybe, butch And and Sun dance shoot their way out and we get a sequel, you know, like.
I'll do that with sports.
I will come home, I'll go to the MCG to watch a game of football, which I know you have done, you win of Melbourne games, and I'll come I'll come back home and I'll watch the replay, even if we've lost, just to make sure they got the scores right.
Yes, that happens to me constantly, especially now when they're re airing classic sports games, and I'll watch classic sports games with outcomes that I don't love and I'll h and I'll think to myself, but you know, maybe it was wrong. And the Patriots win the Super Bowl. I know I agonized for a year about about them not winning. Thankfully,
thankfully for me that knew him. And Patriots have been good enough that every year after they've they've last, they've they've come back and and and been really competitive and usually won the next time, but very far and maybe maybe maybe they don't lose to their Eagles and the Super Bowl one.
I'm not sure how much sympathy you're going to get for your Patriots, but to go back to butchercashing in the Sundance Kid. That is obviously it ends in a very similar way. And I'm sure Ridley Scott considered this when he finished, because that was really George roy Hill, who directed Butch just found it too upsetting. He thought
needs to be too upset the CDs characters die. And also there was the had a different thing going on as well, where there's kind of conspiracy theories that Butcher and Sundance may have actually lived and gotten out of Bolivia and returned.
To the state.
So they were leaving the the option to think maybe they got away. That's not going on here with Elm and Luais. There was like jumpy castle at the bottom of that canyon.
No, there's no oh, no, you've told them, You've told the person and successfully fast forward it. Yeah, but I I think I think it's a it's a tiny bit of a comp out when films do that, And even even Butcher and Sunnets, which I do love, and George roy Hill literally might be the greatest underrated commercial American director who's done so many so he did so many great films, and uh, and it isn't remembered as one of the all time greats uh here the way he
clearly should be. I think he did a great funny sports film Slapshot as well. But but but but for thelm On, like I think there is something to seeing your hero gun down in that moment of because the audience has earned the closure of the story. And maybe I'm a sick puppy, but I want to see my favorite characters killed if that's what's going to happen, I want to see. I very rarely enjoy an ambiguous sending. I don't need to see them smashed the bets the way the original one is, but I do want to
know for certain. But they're feeders, I think.
I wondered about this. I wondered if alternative ending would be that the car and I don't mind about spoiling this. They've been warned enough, Alex, So the car, the car comes up, and if the camera was to stay at a certain point and let the car leave the frame, and then the explosions kind of like sense from underneath, even if it's eventually after a few seconds, you see the smoke gonna come up through the frame, you know, with the blue sky and the canyon in the background, just the Blue Sky.
I think that would have worked.
Yeah, but I think the idea is that they're you know, soaring into eternity because it's still a very Ridley Scott movie. The movie is like, first of all, Scott apparently doesn't know what America looks like, because occasionally, like they're all over the place Atlas wise, they're just like they go to a desert. The desert's in Arkansas. They're driving around like like sometimes they'll drive the state that's not next to the state before it. You'll see a sign on
a window that says like Victorville, California. And then it's like like we're in Texas or there were in Oklahoma, And I'm like, really, ten minutes ago, you were in Victorville, California, Like how is any of this is possible? So like but Ridley Scott, like it feels I Ridley Scott, that these guys like, you know, sore sore into sore, into immortality. Yeah, and so I mean I do think it very much,
It very much fits. But but yeah, really Scott really needed was there no one with a map to tell him that, like there's no desert in Arkansas, Like it's every I was watching it on Amazon, and Amazon will give you fun facts about the movie as you watch it if you have the X ray on the little and Amazon is like, really, Scott is actually wrong here. There's no you know, there's no ganyser and there's no
geyser in Arizona. Like it's one of those it's one of those kinds of things where where the geography is on that stuff.
It's a lot of I love the sequence in the in the motel where j D comes back into uh the same film, and then you've got Susan Sarandon and uh Michael Madsden, two of the risible dogs who appear in this film in Happy Catail. But it's just a great thing because you got Jimmy and and uh Louise having a very adult conversation about where they are in their relationship, and it's a very it's a very serious conversation.
It's a kind of a heartbreaking conversation. And then in the next room you have you know, Thelma and JD playing these hands slappy games and jumping on the bed and then having you know, awesome Brad Pitt Steamy six.
Yeah, It's like I watched it and I was like, God, can now can we talk about everybody now? Because wow, I was like, wow, he's not been under sault, like he's his body is ridiculous in this movie.
It is it's unnatural.
I'm like how And by the way, not for nothing. Gina Davis is gorgeous. Yes, like she's like six I was like, is this woman six foot ten? Like she's extremely tall, She's very like she's got this like you know, beautiful beautiful like innocence about her, but with an edge. She's so gorgeous and so and so like sexy, like she's like her whole I don't know, the character really fits the actor and and I absolutely loved it. But yeah, JDS.
JD is like the funniest I do get Kyle Smith, the New York Post guy that I do get one one element of his shitty review, which is that he's like, men aren't Men aren't real characters in this in this movie, He's like, men are he? I think of all the characters, JD is the most pestichie, but it's so much fun, Like he's so much fun to watch every moment on screen. He's just like this delicious, delicious, like hunk of man
pie and it's very it's very good and bad. Pitt deserves everything that he has in his life and and h.
And that's a credit to Brad Pitt that he hasn't just played shirtless due to you know who have amazing sex scenes in motel rooms, like you know he he I think he did Legends of the Fall after this, was it Leedgards of Fall or a River runs through it or one of those kind of movies.
And then a few years later he was doing Twelve Monkeys and seven and he's, you know, amazing film. Yeah, yeah, did you think.
So?
I watched it twice. I watched it Friday night.
I had a couple of wines, and I thought I better watch it again because I couldn't understand some of my notes. But did you think j D was always going to rip film or off? Was that his plane alone?
Yeah?
Yeah, because he basically tells her, He tells her that doesn't like that. He tells her how he's almost going to do it, you know, in in in bed when they're flirting before they kind of start getting on and he and he kind of goes through basically how he's going to do it.
He doesn't do it.
Exactly like that.
He doesn't.
It doesn't, but yeah, he's he takes it. He takes it through. He's method of.
Doing it more so than you know the a non robbery etcent what you do?
I'm a robber, you're a bank robber? No, no, I'm rubbing no banks?
Come on, would you rob?
Mm hmm.
Well let's see said it up here. I robbed a gas station, a couple of convenience stores, liquor stores.
Oh my god, how.
Okay, we'll see first, speak your place right, and I just sit back and watch it for a little while, wait for that right moment to make my move. See, and that's something you gotta know up here. That ship cannot be taught. And then uh, oh shit, I want to talk about that.
Like there.
All right, Then.
I waltz right in.
Yeah.
Then I just kind of waltz on in and I say, ladies, gentlemen, let's see when surprize keeping their cool. Simon says, everybody down on the floor.
Now nobody lose their head. Then nobody loses their head. Uh you sir, Yeah, you do the honors.
Take that cash and put in that bag right there.
You got an amazing story. Tell your friends.
If not, you got a tag on your toe, you sigh, simple as that. Then I just slip on out and uh the hell have Dodds? Yeah? H my goodness, you're sure gentlemanly about it. Well, now, I've always believed that done properly on robbery doesn't have to be a totally unpleasant experience. What you realize that laun aren't well, maybe an Eland on him, but you don't want to steal my heart? Smart.
The person I was watching with my my my, my friend Hannah. We were using where we hit play at the same time and then watched and texted through the movie. She wrote me and said, he's gonna he's gonna steal it. He's gonna steal her money. And uh, in yeah, from the minute she said that, I found it impossible not to see it. It was. It's very clear that he was gonna that he was going to take her cash
and and and run. And uh it's heartbreaking because it's such a good romantic scene and and him going although he gets some real come upance at the end with Harvey kaitel So and and also him basically saying to shoot a McGavin. I slept in their way life. It's very satisfying in a way because he's he's such a peg and uh and it's the it's it's such a it's such a great heighteen moment. But yeah, I knew he was. I felt like, uh, I felt like Kenna pointed that out halfway through the sax scene, and I
was like, Fuck, that's definitely. That's definitely.
One thing I wanted to ask you about.
Are American diners has lifted throughout America as they appear to be in the movies. We don't have that diner set up here in Australia.
We don't.
You know that that's great. You know obviously that they're they're they're in delin Lui's pulp fiction. You know that they're kind of littered, silver linings, playbook. Every second movie seems to be the great places. There's set scenes American diners, but we don't have any that style here. Are they as everywhere as the movie My Cat?
There's so much there's so much fun a diner. A diner is so much fun because it's another big First of all, like you say, they are ubiquitous, like and there's a real sense of they're the most American place to eat, and they are naturally scattered across the the American South and Texas, and so I do think that
there is a and everyone's got a favorite one. My favorite diner in the world is in Victorville, California, which is which is really you know, two hours outside of Los Angeles, and the diners called Emma Jean's Holland Berger Cafe and it and there's something so romantic and again there's something about what is America to a diner, and you could say that, you know, the most American thing is this place where people of all kinds and all you know, all races and genders and sexes and orientations
and economic backgrounds can come together and get the same humble fries in a shake. And so yeah, it's it's And also there's something affordable about a diner, which adds to its mystique a little bit, which is, if you're down on your luck, you go to a diner because you're not finding cheaper food than you'd find it a diner. And so and so the fact that Thelmo and luis so much of it takes place in these American institutions
is like, you know, clearly, irresistibly romantic. So so, yeah, diners to answer your question, they are as ubiquitous, but they would have been even more so, you know, twenty years ago when the film.
Is Kay, that's I love watching for somehow, I just love watching scenes in American DNA.
Is you've been to one, though, Pete Shirley, I.
Have, but not necessarily out in the open ryo, you know, like not not out of the cities, you know, not certainly not in the South.
I haven't been to the South for some reason. I don't know.
It's really just stating arrangements really, but they are always They're always fun to be.
But don't you guys have an equivalent right the bar in the middle of nowhere?
The have you been to?
Have you been to a local? Because the real thing to a diner is that it's a local spot in a place that you don't live, or it's your local spot. Yeah, so American films, a diner is either the ultimate local
spot or the ultimate foreign place. So in Thelma and luis like, you know, to me, being in a diner on the open road, if I'm in Victorville or the Inland Empire or upstate New York or Pennsylvania, wherever I've stopped in, it's me seeing basically the folks that live in that place, and there's something really special about that. So I always imagine, actually that I would have thought that Australia does have, you know, these roads tape.
The closest I can think of would be probably the small town bakeries. We can go in and sit down and every every town claims they've won the best custard tart four years running.
The metal class. I was assuming. I was assuming that an Australian roadside that Australia is felled the place that we can get a free nafe in the nap if you if you sit down and the.
Wrong there there's so many pubs that you wouldn't want to, you know, go into. And certainly, but I'm not sure if I was driving a truck across Australia, I'm not really sure where they do stop. It might be this gas stations or sorry, petrol stations that they can grab a coffee or a coke.
Bat Americans think of of of Australian roads tape places you stop in. You've been driving for four days straight, You're one fiftieth across Australia. You walk through the doors of the roadhouse and they are the cowboy styles submoon doors. You walk in. Paul Hogan I fifty other men who look like Paul Hogan are sitting there. You walk up to the bar, completely oblivious, while all these men in leather vests watch you. You go, can I have a beer?
And the bartender says what kind of beer? And you go, and this is your biggest mistake. You go, I'll have a stella artois And the bartender stops wiping the bar and he goes, you want to what, mate, And you say, I'll have a stella artois and he goes, we don't have any godden damn. You have ten different kinds of fosters, and you'll drink it and you'll like it, and they bury you in the middle of nowhere and no one ever finds your body and the world continues like that is how Americans think of.
That happens to all of us, at least once you know.
I'll have a stellar the least Australian beer.
Before we before we go. One other point I want to make about I love I love a road movie. In fact, some of my favorite films, you know, planes trains and automobiles, sideways, which sideways. I thought of sideways quite a bit in this because the characters are set up in a similar kind of way that you know, Louise wants to kind of really kind of you know, have a bit of a girl strip away and this you know, has some time and anytime the men come up,
she's like shoes them away. So she's more than Paul g and Mahardi character here and Delmas more Thomas Hayden Church who's maybe up for a good time and some some distractions. It works really well because in all these kinds of road movies they have to help each other out, you know, and they get the balance really well here, and it's it's mainly Louise helping Thelma out for the first half ish, you know, really until j D does
the runner and then and then Jimmy leaves. You know, they've they've kind of said they're going to go their separate ways, and then it's Thelma's turn to pick up pick up Louise, and it's it's all road movies need to have that where there it can't just be one person helping the other, you know, And I think this does it really well, it's.
A truly great friendship. Like it's a really good that never gets compromised. Actually the two are man at each other, but the story never moves forward because one of them betrays the other or one of them. You know, Thelma is a little bit more she's not an airhead, but she's a little bit you know, less on it than Louise's.
I even think, you know, the characters are are sort of painted that way and thought of that way, but they never let each other down Morley, you know, like Thelma, let's j D. Thelma's ripped off by j D. But but it's you know, then she goes and and robs the gas station, which is wildly out of character for her. And and you know, the the truck driver that's seen with the truck driver at the end is so fun and and and funny when they when they blow up,
when they blow up his struck. He is a real uh he is a bit pastig, that guy.
He's a work. He was on the white on Australian pub I think in the app back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that that it's never even heard of. But but I but yeah, it's it's a great movie about about friends and It is a really fun watch because their interplay is so delightful and the subplot is how great are these two women? That is the The subplot is these these these women haven't It is a great feminist film because I don't be like, here are two white men discussing why but the film isn't isn't about brad Pet's apps. The film is about these these
two women who have a really tough situation. But for you know, an hour and a half, you get lost in in this wonderful friendship between the two. You can't help but be transported by it. And it's so elegantly done, and the writing is so so so perfect. I would love to I wonder what Kelly Kohi has has said about this. It's our first screenplay and it's a big It's a really big one.
It's really really it's it's fantastic. And I just want to point out one more thing which was in the leert this. As I was watching, I did a little dive into some behind the scenes stuff. The final shot, which I've spoken about before. We don't need to go back over a game, but the final shot, Uh, it's our film in Luise and their little final tree.
They shot that in forty five minutes.
They had they had spent so much time shooting Harvey Kaiitel's stuff, and the sun was going down, so they only had forty five minutes to shoot Elwen Louise and their final act.
Which I understand.
You know, I make television, I've made a film, and I understand that light can get to you and trap you at the end of the day. But for a for a landmark feminist film to spend more time shooting Harvey Kaito than the final scene with their two protagonists, you know, I think it's a little bit off brand.
Sure, I mean, but it works. That final scene, that final scene really does the movie. Someone used a phrase perfect movie to describe it, and it's hard to sorry. I can hear my brother running a bath in the background. That's making me crazy. That's what quarantine as. I'm like, I'm trying to work here. My brother, like I need a bath. That can't be a shower. You need to be a bath. But this problem of the small house, and.
He's an Olympic wrestler. You let him take his bath, yeah, but I'm not.
I'm not going to master him. He can take his bath. But but, but I do think Harvey Kitel is so good in this movie.
I wanted to bring up Harvey Cartel because that's an you know, he has an interesting you know change of heart. Obviously throughout this scene he's obviously he's trying to track them down. You know, you don't really I didn't really see it coming that he was going to soften and kind of see it from you know, maybe start putting the pieces together. Okay, I think there's more to this case and more to these women they were given them a given credit for.
But also I think the movie rewards the movie isn't just feminist because it's about female friendship. It also rewards a different kind of prioritize intelligence. Different emotional intelligence is the most important thing in the movie. And Harvey kayitell what he is as emotionally attuned to what's happening. He's not just like a square headed cop being a square headed copy. He understands what these women are going through and what's going on in the pressure that they must
be under with stupid husbands and shitty roadhouse situations. And so I think that Keli Kahurry and really Scott really reward characters for having emotional growth and emotional even when j D is explained to it at the police station what he's done to the women by forcing them into a really bad situation, you get a sense that he's given a little bit of grace for sort of being
made aware what's happened. And so I think it prioritizes Harvey Kaytell's and Hebrew you'd say, see like his sort of like getting it is the most important thing in this movie, and Harvey Kytel gets it, so I think, and clearly was shot with some with you know, with with the utmost priority for forgetting.
Yeah, when he says, when Harvey Caytell says that Brad Pitt, do you think your actions put these women in a dangerous place? Kind of really sums up probably the entire theme of the movie really, the actions of men that put women in dangerous places.
You should be a film critic. I'm not. I'm not being like I really think that you, but you although I want to see I want to see I want to see Peter give a film two thumbs down. And I want to know what I don't I know all your favorite movies, Peter, I want to know which movie you despise so much.
The only movie I've walked out on I wouldn't really call it the movie, but in bed with Madonna, I walked out of that.
What a hard hitting opinion to not like Madonna.
Well, there are those movies that you, yeah, you watch before they're supposed to make sense to you. And I think, you know, we mentioned Field of Dreams for whatever reason when I was twelve. Even though I feel like I should have connected with it for some reason, I didn't. And it'll be to see if I reconnect when I watch it again.
You know.
I wonder that to that point, that whether or not I would have enjoyed this movie or understood it in the same way when I was a teenager, because I think this movie means more to people at different points in their life, Like for me seeing it was different than my friend Hannah and Josh Harmon the playwright, and Natty and Natalie, like, I think all of us had different all positive the movie is incredible, but all of us had different reactions to it. I thought, Oh, you
know what Natalie pointed out, which is really brilliant. She said, Wow, I was like the cinematographer knows how to shoot women. It reminds me of the cinematography and Alien and it's the same guy. It's Adrian Biddle, who's a great director of photography. And the way that you know, he lights sweat on a face, in the way that he puts that that he that he's able to sort of define the jaws of these women to give them really powerful set look. You know, is he These women are lit
like they're in an action movie act. They have this great conversation and there's still a softness to them, but they're lit and shot, as Natalie points out, the same way you know, they're they're shot and alien and uh, and Adrian Biddle did the cinematography for Aliens as well. But like, but yeah, it's it's really the whole movie emphasizes the power of these of these women in a way that's really authentic. And I think that's why.
Absolutely, Mike, I'm so grateful for you to get up that you have during this week quarantine period. Uh, it's it's so much fun to chat with you about about movies and life.
And yeah, I really appreciate you joining us.
Are you kidding? This has been the highlight of my Uh, there's been so much so much, so much fun for me, and thank you so much for having me on this and uh and what a what a thrill to see to see you this is, this is so nice.
Okay, then listen, let's not get caught.
What are you talking about?
Let's keep going.
What do you mean?
Go you sure?
Yeah?
M hm.
Hi.
So there you have it, another episode of You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, the first international episode we have recorded with Alex Edelman. What a lovely guys, like I said in the intro, so smart and so generous and a Bostonian and a fellow Celtics follower. Even things out, we do have a Toronto Raptor coming up in the season two. Seen that yet in Adam Christie Alex's conversation chat was done before the playoff.
In fact, I think before we went into the bubble the NBA.
I spoke to Adam on the eve of the Boston Toronto series and as I record this, I am hoping Boston can wrap up the series either in Game six or Game seven.
Fingers crusted.
That actually reminds me that the season of first season that You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet is coming to an end. We've got two weeks left next week we had Limo with wit Nail and I. It's a movie that I hadn't seen either, and it's kind of considered particularly amongst the British comedy fraternity.
I must see. I think I have probably lied about seeing it over the years to British friends.
So we sit down and we watched that. It was very conversation, and then there'd be one more episode after that. For this season, I'm still tossing up whether to take a little break. So I'm not going to chase in my tail to get them all out and putting my fantastic podcast manager Dooke Myers from Passways Studios dot com dot A. You under under pressure, so it may we may take a week or two off. I don't want
to take too long. I've got know still people who are around the world are still dealing with lockdown, and so there's a chance we may still continue to go through or extend season one and take a break later on.
We still have some great podcasts episodes up our sleeve.
So also thank you to the circustry Sounds, Jim and Tom Dan Murphy's for your ongoing support. Dan Murphys dot com dot AU for all your alcohol and Lockdown needs. Thank you also for everyone who has been inundating us with emails at Yasney podcast dot com and this one some Simon Lindsay, Hey ta for good listenings.
You really saw that gap in the market for movie podcast.
One of the great pleasures of Lockdown has been the time podcasts and movies to get through.
It's been a treat.
I've been rewatching the personal faves, but also just stack up as pretty.
Perfect movies in that people order.
This's listened a few Alien Blade on Cargo, No Country of role Men, there will be blood, Jurassic Park, this is Spinal Tap, Flying High, Gremlins. He also loves a sequel. He says it's fucking bonkers, which he loves. Seven Oceans Eleven shut The Shining Dunkirk. He thinks it's a bit underrated. I think most people kind of considered Dunkirk a great film. Great back Mountain Duck Soup also a big David Lynch fan.
Lost Highway could be his favorite film ever. And he's also be Cronerberg fans or anything for those guys if you If I want some weirdness in the mix, all of those movies would be great to cover in this in this podcast, also more importantly given the latest Heat podcast with Dave Thornton, he's Tom Hilliston doing the diner scene to de Niro on Graham Norton.
He's almost as good as day. So I have a listen.
It's on YouTube. It's Tom Hilliston on Graham Norton doing Robert de Niro. It's a fair bit of fun. So thank you very much Simon for doing that, and also to Jamie Jamie Shaw, who's thoroughly in joining the podcast. He says, I haven't seen many of the classic movies that have been talked about before listening, but I did watch them afterwards. I had never seen The Godfather or Hate before, but I watched them both and thought they were incredible. So thank you for reinvigorating my interest in
great movies. I've always been a suck at the time travel movies myself, and the Back to the Future trilogy is.
My all time favorite. Nothing wrong with that. Plus second would Momento fantastic and the Butterfly Effect. Thanks make keep up the great work. Thank you Jamie for listening and I really do appreciate it. And again at Yasney podcast dot com, thank you so much. Next week we have Limo a great mate, Limo Whitdale and I check it out. I know, I'm sure a lot of you haven't seen it.
It's more of a culty kind of film because you can compare to some of the films we've covered so far. But we've both had a pretty interesting reaction to it. It's one of those movies that happened a couple of times where I think we kind of talked to each other around to it a bit.
We both watched it night before and yeah, it was. It was a great chat. So that's next week on. You won't say nothing yet until then, look out of yourselves.
And so we leave old Pete, save Manselt, and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night