Lisa McCune and Full Metal Jacket

Get as a quick word before we start today's episode. It was recorded during Lockdown four in Melbourne, so it was done over zoom, so we're not in Casaway Studio, so the Saint pristine quality sound quality you hear is not quite there.

So still enjoy today's episode. If you ain't seen nothing yet, can a Peter Hell? Are you here? Welcome to you ain't seen nothing yet?

The movie Podcast where I chat to a movie lover about a classic or beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now.

And today's guests my.

TV wife four time gold Loggie winner Lisa mchewn.

Ever dance for the Devil of the pail plane.

I'm walking here, walkod here.

Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks.

In the mice.

Haven't any right, sw.

Lisa mceune has no idea that she's actually Lisa mcewn, a four time gold Logi winner. Lisa won Our Hearts is Maggie Doyle in the long running Ossie police drama Blue Heelers. Maggie Doyle's death remains one of Australian TV's most heart wrenching moments. She went on the sail the High Season Sea Patrol, and a little shout out to her performance in the outstanding Aussie flick Little Fish, alongside

Heirs or races.

Like I said, Lisa mcune just has no idea that she's actually Lisa mcune, and I'm bloody stoke to have her hanging with me today.

Hi, I'm Lisa mcune, and my three favorite films are Gone with the Winds.

Should be kissed en off. Someone who knows how.

An Australian film called Traveling Nord.

Ruled just spotic, arrogant, bullion, I can, I'll stand living with you a minute long, and.

The classic comedies of National Lampoon with Chevy Chef.

Well, I'll tell you something. This is no longer a vacation. It's a quest. It's a quest for fun.

And up until last night, I had never seen Full Metal Jacket by Stanley Kubrick.

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life without me. My rifle is useless without my rifle.

Yes, it's time to get the human eyes and have the individuality pummeled out of you. In Stanley Kubrick's nineteen eighty seven classic based on the book Short Times by Gustav Hasford, Full Metal Jacket a reference to a casing

Oh my god? It is an amazing watch, isn't it? And I came to this film because.

Of my son, really, So it is Oli yeah, yeah.

So this is Olie, my middle son, who is really keen on making movies, and so he has kind of been for the last couple of years watching an insane number of movies, and he was loving this one and said, Mum, you've got to see it. And so when you asked me to come and do the podcast, I sat down last night and I watched Full Metal Jacket, and I've got to say I was pretty blown away and it was an incredible film because it feels like it's in two parts, so you feel like you're watching two films. Yeah,

He pretty much kicked another actor out of the role.

I'm not sure exactly how it happened and how mcavellian he was about it, or maybe the other actor was a struggling a bit. The other actor who was supposed to play that role ends up in the helicopter later on in the film shooting, you know, in a horrific that's the actor who was supposed to play that that role. So it's there's so much to discuss about Full Metal Jacket, both from a production point of view and from a narrative point of view, and we'll get to all of it.

Let's start with a film that is on the list for me to watch.

I think Robe mcmanu says, put his hand up to watch Gone with the Win for the very first time for this podcast.

I've never seen it. I haven't quite made the commitment to.

It's one of those films that I thought I always got that in casablanket confused.

You know, you haven't seen either of those films.

You're not sure which one is, you know, Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn or you know of order gin joints in all the world, you know.

So why do you love Going to Win so much?

Well? I think it was a toss up between that and The Godfathers, because I do love the Godfathers. But again, they're the kinds of films that you go you feel like you've got to make it appointment to sit down and watch those films, But in actual fact, once you start on the journey, you're there and it's great. I mean,

And did You?

Obviously there's been a lot of talk about it recently and HBO, I think because maybe they have the rights to it or something they have made like a documentary which is almost a precursor that they encourage people to watch before they watched Gone with the Win. Because obviously there's some issues racially about the film Did You? And I'm not trying to I'm trying to pick political in

Or is it something I always think? I mean, you know, I've always thought that the arts is a great way to reflect what's going on, and it reflected a time and it was probably sanitized to the degree of how people were really treated at the time, do you know what I mean? Like it's the film version of But the plus side of it is I think that there was an Academy Award winner. I think had he she won the Academy Award for that film and for a woman of color at that time. And you know, I, yes,

Yeah, I mean, I think you're right as far as it can raise an awareness and then you can go off and do your own research, you know about it. And I read recently, weirdly enough that the actress Hattie.

And I think it's McDonald. I think it's Hattie McDonald. Her name was. I've got to check, but anyway, I think it's.

And she was saying that she, you know, she could either act as a she her role in that she.

She played, Yeah, she plays Scarlet's kind of yea made and she she travels with Scarlett basically, and yeah, and she was a house man she through the whole film.

And she listen, I could get paid to act like that and get paid more than or actually, you know, take it on as a job and get paid way less, you know.

So you know, for her it was empowering. I think too.

Yeah, so you know, I think, and then we can't we can't erase history, can we, you know, And if it's if it's if it actually it's Haddy McDaniel her name was. And she played Mammy and she was so good and Scarlett adored her, you know, like within the family, the O'Hara family in the film there, slaves were actually an integral part and Scarlet kind of actually really looks after them after the death of appearance so they were actually became they were like family really.

And it's it's obviously I haven't seen it, but it's a massive romantic epic, isn't it.

Like that's sweeping peace, sweeping sweeping.

Yes, it's a sweet.

Look at it. And you know the Scarlet Ohara and Red Butler storyline. I mean, it's fantastic, and you know she's in love with Ashley, and you know, the costuming is brilliant, and there is so much about that film that is just Hollywood, but it's amazing to watch. I think they sacked the first director too. I think, you know, there was lots of problems behind the scenes, but I think that's when I first realized that I loved the

So that was I was gonna say, when did you start?

Well, now, it's so easy to go on YouTube and find you know, and I do it each week when I when I do this podcast, you know, and find out more information about the film. It was it was harder to do, you know, you know, thirty or so years ago.

So it was it was that book, was it?

When did you start kind of discovering stories behind what we were watching?

I reckon, you know, as a teenager, it was reading all of those old school biographies on actors and directors where you get a lot of that information. So Katherine Hepburn was always talking about her trajectory as far as being an actor, how hard it was for her, And then you might read about somebody else, and so you pick up their version of the story, and yeah, I was always kind of really was interested in that side of things. And you find out about lots of films

Yeah, what's amazing when I sit down and watch an older film. I watched Singing in the Rain a couple of weeks ago, and only because nobody's nominated it yet, and I keep nudging people towards singing Her.

But Tony Martin had.

It in these top three favorite films of all time, and when he was it sounded more modern than maybe that I had kind of thought this idea of silent film actors trying to transition into talkies. Was this a fascinating idea? And I had no idea that's what Singing

I think.

We're still using you know, you see some Kubrick elements that he's using full Metal Jack, which are taken from Citizen Kane, you know. And it's fascinating, and I'm always a little bit a shame that I'm like, why did I when I sat down and watched this film while was I a bit like, Okay, I'm watching, you know, a film from nineteen forty six, and they constantly blow me away.

But don't you reckon? That's because and I reckon the studio system of the old days, as hard as it was and as probably the problematic in some ways, everybody was so well oiled their craft because they were doing so much, like the studios were just they didn't people didn't have their televisions in the thirties or probably when we know forties, so people would have to go to the cinema and so that became our entertainment. And so they were making so much, and they were making them quickly,

Yeah, it would be a whole lot of fun. I'm embarrassed.

And also I haven't seen Traveling North, And in fact, I don't know a whole bunch about it. I know that it's an Australian film. That's almost I'm going to guess, is Jack Thompson in it?

Actually think, No, he's not.

I knows a safe guess.

That's just so true, Steve Steve Harrett, No, No, he would have been a baby in it. No, it's based on a David Williamson play, and it was funny because I used to actually pull it out and watch it sometimes because, particularly when I was doing Blue Heelers, it kind of like, I don't know why on the weekends, I actually you know, we're at home and after a really big week it would be kind of a bit of a go to film bizarrely, you know, like out of all the films, Leo Mckerney is amazing in it,

Yeah, I mean I think it was.

I'm sure if Traveling North was made before The Club, but I think I think I was reading recently at the Club was like maybe one of his first acting roles.

I might I might be completely wrong in.

This, but The Club, which also based on the David Williams and play, centered around a.

Calling with football club, which I obviously.

It drew my attention, and he's so great in that as well. I think, yeah, he did do because I think he was in Don's Party as well. I think Grant Kennedy and he did do quite a few roles, but he.

Would fit well with Williamson, you know, like he really fits that Williamson kind of characters really well. He does the great Australian but as a next door abor. I think his name's Freddy actually in the film, and it's one that if people can see it, it probably look a little bit data now, but it is absolutely gorgeous and funny and heartfelt and it's really Australian and I love it. I just think it's such a film that

What is the basic plot or the premise of the film.

It's Leo mccern's character. I'm an elderly gentleman. He retires up north with his wife, who is his second wife, and he's quite a he's a difficult man. And yeah, they just settle up north and it's kind of he's getting into his you know, very twilight in his twilight years, and so yeah, it's about the adventures of him moving north. Really they're not a lot and that's The interesting part is that I don't think a lot happens in in it plot wise. I think his health's a bit of an issue.

Well, the change gear is once more National Lampage. You cheated a little bit, you've said National Lampoons. Are you saying National Lampion's Vacation or the Are you saying all the movies? If you had to pick one, what would have been?

Oh, I don't know. I do love it when they go to Italy, I think, but then I like, I know, I want to put them under the umbrella. I know I'm not allowed to, but they are all so funny. They really are. I mean, di'angelo is just like she would have to be one of my favorite actresses. I love her. She's kind of up there with Katherine O'Hara, you know, I love them. I think as women, you know, comedians, they're just so great. And it's a brilliant film.

She is great, and I love the first one is my favorite. This National Lampion's Vacation when I go to Wally World, and that was.

The first was I was never sure which one which order they came in, but they went there first and then they went to Europe. Yes, so it was European vacation.

Vacation first, European Vacation second, Christmas Vacation third. And they may have made some other films that they've they've been remade, you know, when I say recently, probably six years ago, I think with Ed Helms and Christina Applegate who played well Ed Helms is the older.

Rusty now grown up.

And to be honest, you know, it was always going to disappoint to an extent, and but it actually I watched it more recently. It is almost by accident, one of those things where you're you're switching channels and it's on, and so you watch a bit of it, and I had a few. I had quite a few laughs, and Chevy Chase and Beverly de Angelo, you know, have cameos in it, and it's it's a.

Bit of fun.

And but the hard thing is with this, you know, picking if three films, I had to strike off things like cook the fief's wife and her lover and Brazil, and you know, I'm living Beaches. I remember having this kind of cataclysmic reaction to Beaches in the eighties and walking out and like I could barely see. I was crying so much as a teenager. So this just it's so hard with film, isn't it, because everything hits you.

She's hilarious.

So I saw a film recently and I saw the trailer for that, just out of the blue, not knowing that this film was coming out, and I got very excited.

I was by myself, and I sin as I got home. I told Bridge.

That I've gone blank on the name and Call my Agent. But she's, you know, the secretary in Call my Agent, She's the the p A.

That's she's in a new movie.

So beautiful Pete. You will love it. It's just divine.

Yeah, she's great.

When I think of National Lampon's Vacation, I think of I think of my mum because I remember watching it with her growing up, and I've never heard her laugh so out of control in a particular scene. And it's John Candy when he is on the when he's on the big roller coaster.

And my mom when she was that she rode that roller.

Chase and John Candy, she was the every dip and every every up, you know, it would slate and it was just she just snorted their way through it.

She'd laugh, you'd cry, I think every time you saw it.

So don't you think they did that thing? That that thing really well? When you when you've got a family film, but the comedy kind of like really dirty stuff goes over the head of the little kids and they just see this kind of crazy family and they kind of identify with it. So it is a family film, even though it's actually really wrong in some spot, you get away with it.

Because I think we watched The Vacation, we taped it off Channel nine when it was on and try to pause the ads out so we had the Channel nine version for so many years, and then I remember watching it. Somebody got it on video or so, maybe on Foxtel or something, and I could not believe how much swearing there was in it, Like there's a lot of swearing, a.

Lot of Wow, I don't remember that either. Isn't that weird? See that's gone. I don't know whether I hear it too much and it's just become part of our everyday usage. But I don't remember all the bad language at all. It feels really.

Clean to me, absolutely, And I like the castle. If you're heading to Bonnie Done, you have to sing the Bonnie Dune song.

If you're on like a big roundabout.

Quite often in our car somebody will say, I can't get left, can't get left.

It's brilliant. Yeah, it's just so.

Or if we see somebody, particularly if I'm with my brother, if we see somebody who a couple who are being quite you know.

Lovey dovey with each other.

You know my brother, undoubtedly I can almost time it will say I think he's going to pok her dad.

Oh, good old Rusty. It was so great, was it? God? It was such a good casting as well.

It was great and they of course kept swapping.

I think Anthony Michael Hall doesn't do European vacation because he was doing the Breakfast Club and I decided, okay, we're just going to change change over the the Audreyes and the Rusties.

Because he was the best.

He was the best rush There's no doubt about that in my in my mind, which actually brings us to a beautiful segue the full Metal Jacket, because would you believe Anthony Michael Hall was Stanley Kubrick's first choice to

Hoall yeah, part I think, yeah, it is. It's Matthew Madine's kind of amazing, isn't he? Because he's really he's somehow quite perfect because he almost allows you in that performance to step into his shoes. I mean, I guess he's the protagonist, really, isn't he? You know, like you feel like you're him, and he's he's not big, he's not big enough in his performance that you ever find that you're watching him. You kind of feel like you

Yeah, I agree. I think he's really good. I think it grows, or at least my acceptance of him grew. I think at the start I wasn't quite buying him as the joke he kind of time, but he like And what's really fascinating about this film, I think is that no backstories are given at all. We don't know anything about where these kids have come from, you know, who they've left behind their.

God, I've never thought of that, but you're so right. We know nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah, And even if you look at pile gamer pile, a private game of pile, he like, we don't know if he's we assume he's good, Like he's a good guy, you know. And it's all because of Vincent de la Freya's performance. He plays him like an innocent child and he just feel for him. I mean, he's getting bullied, you know, and you know, Joke has taken him under his wing, and when he's going through all the gun stuff, he's just looking at him, almost like he's looking at his dad, like you know.

It's beautiful. But then you get the soap scene straight afterwards, so like what is that?

Like?

That freaked me out, Like there was so much about that film that I I kind of went, you know, like I really loved being in that training camp with them, and I really loved going through that and how harsh it was and how much of that, Like some of that dialogue, I almost have to go back again and listen to all of the dialogue that just streams out

I think certainly correct made the actor le Ermi say the dialogue whilst playing soccer, so he go around and plays soccer or making you know, set out some drills for him and he who play soccer, and he would recite the dialogue. So he had you know, you know, you know better than others about having lines in your head, but having that much dialogue, rapid fire dialogue, I mean that is that is incredible. I mean I was watching it going how and the long takes.

As well, So he had a really long take, does.

A lot of takes, so it's it's quite incredible. And he apparently came up with them. He wrote about one hundred and fifty insults of his own and kind of pitched him to the Kubrick and they kind of massaged him as well. There's one scene where he says, I think the joker is or maybe the cowboy.

I think he's just a cowboy.

You're the kind of man who will have sex with another man but not be courteous enough to offer him a reach around.

Yes, and that's just one of so many.

But Kubrick Yell's cart and walks up the Ali Ermie and says, what what's a reach around? And he has explained what a riched around is. Kubrick laughs and says, okay, use it.

Let's keep going.

Amazing, amazing, well, because he was the real deal. You know. It's that thing of like I remember doing sea patrol and actually working with the Navy and you actually start to hear there's another language that happens, you know, like they've got their own language in those It's like probably like any industry, you know, you have your own language. It's like the film industry. You know, we've got a whole series of things that happened around camera and you

I reckon, Yeah, because it's about using two parts of your brain, isn't it. I'm not kind of I guess having doing one thing. It's about multitasking in a way.

Yeah, Ollie gave me the hugest rundown on this film, right because he did so much reading about it and some of the incredible things that actually for anybody that does sit down and watch it, get online and read about it, we're so lucky we can like all the hidden stuff and how long it took to shoot and the fact that those roaring sunsets in the beginning and those incredible silhouetted shots of those guys with that red background shut in the UK. Yeah that was shipping trees

He's a famous he's got a fear of flying, or had a fear of flying.

And this is his penultimate film.

He makes this film in eighty seven and then doesn't make another film for twelve years, which is his final film, Eyes Wide Shot.

With Tom and Nick.

Yeah, and then he dies before I think, before that film is actually even released. So let's just start from start from the start. We don't have to kind of go through every little bit. But I mean that opening scene. It's funny with Kubrick because you just know and all good filmmakers like, there's nothing there that's there for no reason at all. And you see the first scene with all the kids getting their head shaved, and you go, okay, well this is you know, this is all there. It's

As opposed to the depth of field that sometimes directors use.

Yeah, fascinating, and but what a great way to to introduce the care. You know, you kind of all of a sudden, you just get a beautiful tight shot, you know, and imagine that in a cinema. You know, you're sitting there in a cinema and this person's face is just freaking enormous, and you kind of you know them. You can see right into their eyes and you can actually really lock in. But what blew me away at the

And you do wonder did you find yourself wondering?

And this is yeah, i'd my if you're not giving us the background, but I did find myself wondering, and not it's not a criticism at all, but.

Why is it? Why is this kid here? Why did you join the army?

I know, but it also goes to show that for me, what I got out of that is they were people just being sent out to be killed. Do you know what I mean? That they didn't matter who they had there, They just needed people behind guns and they weren't that in actual fact. To me, what I got from it this, you know, by watching it again last night, was that perhaps the drilling instructor was so hard on them because for him to be as hard and get those trained and as in sync as he could, perhaps he was

It's such a fascinating point because I don't think Kubrick is actually I don't think this isn't necessarily an anti war film or and it's not a pro war film. I think he's very He just gives you different opinions about war, and I think that's done really well.

I mean, we'll get to it later. Maybe.

Of the there's two scenes that almost that the eulogy scene where they're all around two bodies and they're all giving the almost and they're all different kinds of perspectives, and then when they're doing the interviews for the film crew, they're all giving very kind of different kind of reactions

It's it's quite it could be quite ambiguous.

I heard one of the actors say, you can try to make this in your own mind and anti war film, but eventually it will your argument will fall will fall down. And and I think that the the the dull Sergeant Hartman's a really good example of that.

Like, how did you feel when you know he gets he gets killed?

I know, Well, the funny thing is is that the trainings, I mean, you know that we want to give away too much, but the training's over. When it happens, you know, like they've made it through, they've all been posted off, you know, like they made it. But you just snap, I mean, and when he snaps, far out has a

And Kubricky and kind of look and shot that one. Isn't it that deranged? It's the shining.

It's also fascinating though too. You know the way that the joke about how Joker private Joker actually you know that to me signals like the halftime point of the film, you know, because then all of a sudden you're in Vietnam, but there's never any It's really interesting, you know that to finish that scene, and then you kind of cut to him sitting in a street from Vietnam, and you know this this kind of this girl comes up and propositions them and you know, to these boots were made

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I found myself not considering that Hartman had put them through so much and been so awful to them. I didn't kind of go, oh, good, he's dead, you know, because there is that kind of conflict of going, no, this man is preparing and you you could argue with it that the methods that he's

On you and me either. I liked it. I kind of felt like there was enough around his edges that and I really don't know what it was because there was nothing that pointed this out. But the way it comes across is that he was trying to do it to save these boys' lives. That you know, he was a tough dute, he did it all with them. He was with them there or he slept in the same

How did you feel with the soap bashing when what was the hardest point? I mean that him crying this after it there was just like this, you know, you feel so much for him, But how did you feel when Joker also not only joined in but also joined in and then some.

Oh that that actually because that comes on the back of him helping him, and that just you know, like we don't see how hard the drill instructor push those boys because of the behavior of going my pile. But it was obviously enough for them to do that to him, and that that I mean bars of soap into the side t shirts or whatever it was. It was just it was so insane what that reaction did to me. It was really cruel. It was really awful, and I don't know that really that really got me that I.

Was awful And there's about tipping points, really, isn't it, because obviously Joker had this had enough, you know, I was trying to protect pile go and then but then they just thought I can't. I mean, he hit him once and he just couldn't help himself. He ends up hitting him like six times with it, and go With sees him, he knows it's him, so it kind of it's they both and I think they both know.

They you know, that was tragic as well because everybody else, everyone else who was looking up. But it's just at the end, he slightly moves to step one way and you see him looking straight at Joker.

You know.

The other thing that really blew me away is it's quite often when they were lined up. Is I had that moment of going, oh my god, the wardrobe department every morning, those white T shirts and pants, and if you look at the back of the drill instructor shirt, there is not even a sweat mark or the slightest look of the crease. And I just thought, my god, it is so pristine to look at in a weird way.

Yeah, yeah, let's have less into uh, you know, the full Metal Jacket scene, the breaking of Gomer pile is quite a starting scene.

He goes for a little bit, but let's h it's worth listening to him. Let's have listening.

Seven six two millimeter full metal Jacket.

Planet.

If Hartman comes in here and catches us, we'll both be in a world as ship.

I am in a world.

Oh ship, my shoulder, right shoulder walking long.

Order.

This is more rifle. There aren't many like it, but this one is my im Get back in your bunks. What is this pickey mouse ship? Put down the name of Jesus has Christ? Are you animost doing in my hand? Why is Private Pile out of talk after lifetime? Why is Private Pile holding that weapon? Why aren't you stopping Private Piles? Cut sound, sir? It is the private study to inform the senior drill instructor. The Private Pile has a full magazine. It is locked and loaded, sir.

Now you listen to me, Private Pile, and you listen good. I want that weapon and I want it. Now you will place that rifle on the deck at your feet and step.

Back away from it. What is your major malfunction? I'm nuts.

Didn't mommy and Daddy show you enough attention when you were a child?

Yeah, you can probably come out of it there in your ears.

But it's it's yeah.

And you know what's really bizarre, Pete, is that at the end of the film only told me about two things, right. He talks about the main theme of this film. This is my son who loved it, the duality of man. So we know about that. You know how you can't kind of we get that through the themes of the film. But he also talked about how the film uses a thing called dissonance soundtrack dissonance, and about how you've got a scene that you know might be heartbreaking, but they

Is that just very amazing?

I think I think it's no, it's certainly no coincidence that that's there. And it's also there's Mickey Mouse also in the in the the office i'll call it an office what they call it when they're they set up in battlefields. But there's Mickey and Mini Mouse I think in the a poster in there as well, So I

Which, just and her dialogue is so fantastic. Like her dialogue I can't remember what it is, but I just sat. They're going, oh, it's beautiful, and she totally owns it. And she's the one in the in the position of power and the whole thing. It's brilliant because she's got something they really need and.

Want, and she like that because when you watch it now, you've heard that people say, you know, Miso horny and love you long time. But my understanding is this is a lot of stems from this movie, like that's and that actress kind of doing that. So you hear it now you've heard of a thousand times. But I think when people watching in eighty seven, it was it was like a new thing they were hearing.

Yeah, it's funny too, you know, Like when this film was made, I mean I was a teenager in the eighties, but Vietnam didn't feel as far as like it didn't feel too far in the distance as it does now. Like now it feels like it was kind of a long time ago, you know, and it's remembered, it's further away. But when I was a good teenager, you can kind of it was. It was a closer thing, I remember, you know, it was still very much spoken about every day.

Was sudden and they were really just starting to make I mean, in the seventies that age I'm de hunt is the one that I guess that stands out, but you know, coming home. But the eighties we saw a lot of war films and different kinds of war films. In the early eighties, we saw, you know, more comedies. We saw Private Benjamin in nineteen eighty, We saw Stripes in eighty one, Taps in eighty one, Officer when a Gentleman was eighty two, and then you have around like

So it's weird how that happens sometimes. Did you prefer?

Billy Wilders said that this would be the greatest film of wartime if it ended before they got the Vietnam Did you have? And a lot of people do prefer the first half of the film. It's not quite the first time, more time he spend in Vietnam than in Parasol. But did you have a preference?

I kind of felt like I was watching two films, but I liked that as well. I think if it had if it had have continued for you know, the one hundred and twenty minutes or so, and it had been all in the training. I don't know if we would have got to see some of those other characters that, you know, we needed to. We needed the story to keep going. We needed to see the guy in the chopper in the way that he just shot, you know,

Yeah, absolutely, and you're right, I do love these I mentioned I guess the eulogy and the TV interviews or the film interviews that walking Panning shot that the cameraman is a woman who is Samly Kurbrick Storter in real life.

There's a little fun facts.

But yes, hearing those opinions of those soldiers, because the first half at Paris Island is really just a drill sergeant screaming in the faces of our characters, you know, and and all kind of chants, marching chance as a single asy as they march.

So and Ollie's also put it in his notes. Ollie's actually kind of said that part two is the results of the dehumanization, you know, like, so this is what happens when you take the individual away. You know that it does play out that that starts to kind of I guess rise again, don't they, because they all start to come back as the you know, I mean, you can get really deep about this stuff, can't you. Or you can just sit and watch it and go it's a really full on film.

It is, and I think you can.

You can certainly watch the first half of it and almost just enjoy it for you know, some of the lines, and I mean it's full on as the way that paras Island ends, you can still watch it and kind of go, wow, that was you know, I enjoyed that.

And don't you reckon that? The laughter it comes from it, like you do find yourself laughing and kind of going, why am I laughing at that? It's kind of disgusting, and then the next minute you're going, oh shit. You know, it really takes you on a bit of a journey.

The amount of what skull fucking and shooting down next? Is that stuff that there's certainly been taken. I feel like I say.

That stuff every day. That didn't really get to me.

On the set of How To Say Married Lisa.

Every second, every second direction you gave this was, you know about shooting down that next. But the I feel like all the riders of basically watch Full Metal Jacket before each before each season, there were the lines that came out, and apparently when the actor was doing those those long takes, they were the only scenes where allowed him to do through what two or three kind of

They looked pretty bored.

Yeah, I know, like.

You do think, and I respect the genius of Stanley Curic, but you do think sixty or something takes for mopping the floor. There's a bit of dialogue going on as well. But you do wonder is that just a director having a bad day?

You know what?

Yeah?

I agree, But you know, is he essentially doing what the drill instructors doing, you know, like he's really fucking with the heads of the actors? You know, like is he one of those directors that if he's just kind and needs to break people down and he will kind of go there. I mean, you hear those stories, but I don't know.

I mean, yeah, he cout me a bigger picture as opposed You're right, I never thought of it like that.

As opposed to.

Just getting the shot that he needs for this scene, there might be a bigger picture that he is trying to.

Enforce.

Yeah, but I do think what you were talking about kicking the soccer ball and doing that dialogue, I don't think that's an amazing exercise because you're so right working the two parts of the brain. For the actor, it's like it's an incredible tactic, Like he was tactical, and

Yeah.

Absolutely, I want to explore all these point about the duality of men.

Yeah, and Kirby tells us this.

There's the same with the in Vietnam where Matthew Modine's character, the Private Joker comes across twenty bodies and the has a conversation with the sergeant at the bodygrave, sign Alan, what is.

That button on your body armor?

A piece symbol? Sir? Where'd you get it?

I don't remember, sir?

What is that you've got written on your helmet?

Born to kill?

Sir?

You're right born to kill on your helmet and you wear a piece button. What's that supposed to be some kind of saying joke? No, sir, what is it supposed to mean?

I don't know, sir.

You don't know very much, sire. No, sir, you better get your head and your ass wired together or I will take a.

Giant shit on you.

Yes, sir, I'll answer my question or you'll be standing tall before the man. I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir, What the duality of man?

The youngian things?

Sir?

Who shy? Do you want son our side?

Sir?

Would you love your country?

Yes, sir?

How about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?

Yes, sir.

So all I've ever asked of my Marines, and for them to obey my orders the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnam ease because inside every book there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, Sun. We've got to try to keep our heads until there's peace. Craze both over.

Ay ay, sir.

It's such an extraordinary line inside every you know goog there's an American trying to get out. I mean, my god, it's just a fantastic character line, isn't it.

And then kind of tying in nationalism and then religion. There's a line early on in the movie where the Jew sudden says God has a boner for the Marines.

You know, it's just it's ridiculous.

It's so ridiculous. But it isn't amazing though, you know, like great writing in one line can give a character all of a sudden, it colors the character in such a way that you go, ah, that's what you are, you know, And that's what's amazing about this script.

Absolutely, did you connect? I think this goes towards the duality of man. Do you connect Private Gamma Pile with Animal Mother?

Yeah?

I actually did. I actually did look at that and go, you know what they were there must have been Yeah, you're so right in saying that, Because he did. I kept looking at him going wow, and I hadn't read any of that.

No, it's almost like the shadow version of Pile is Animal Mother. He's toned, he's muscular, but at the same time he's got the same kind of stare, that kind of thousand years, I know.

But he's wearing full metal jackets. Is that what all that stuff that he's wearing, they're all full metal jackets?

Yeah?

Right?

Is that kind of yes?

Yes, I think that's what they refer to with the ballercasing. So I'm assuming, yeah, I might be wrong, but I think you're yeah, you're.

Right, Oh, Pete, I love that. That is so so good. I hadn't thought of that, but you are so right. Maybe in the beginning half and the second half there there is the reflection you could probably go through and have a really good film and go is each character reflective in the second half if they're not there? And I don't know. It's really interesting theory because Krubrick read a lot of psychology.

Oh absolutely said, nothing's there with that purpose. And actually earlier duel Sergeant Hartman says says to him, you will be born again hard, And so I think with that said, there is Career is definitely making his intentions known of this. You know, this is he has been almost born again hard. He is animal mother. That's that's certainly how I do it. And you see there are scenes where you see early

Mud and they can't kind of get him up.

And then you know, you have animal mother storming towards where the sniper is by himself in case with the full metal jackets, and it's running, you know, on instincts, just straight to you know, straight towards the sniper.

Like it's just it's like the shadow he has, you know.

But even that whole thing of like toughening people up, are you giving people their full metal jacket to where is their their psychological armor? Almost? You know, I mean you can start thinking of it like that, you know, like we have our indicating and then perhaps that's the drill, and I don't know, you can get very deep, can't you think, God, we're not having a bottle of wine. What we're talking about.

We won't go because people will be listening to this at any time, you know, in the year's time.

The dates released.

But we should really I should also thank you and apologize for making you watch Full Metal Jacket. Basically on the first day of a fourth lockdown, and.

This will been the first one we were released in lockdow.

Hopefully it's the only one we released in lockdown, because hopefully it's it's a seven days and then.

We are out.

But oh, I actually said to you, Pete the other day on the phone. I was saying, you should give us a full list of some great films to watch over this lockdown, because I'll tell you what. I've run out of things to do. I've painted houses, I've filmed How to Stay Married. But yeah, we need I need to do some serious film watching. And your suggestions are always amazing.

We will get this some suggestions.

I mean, we have one big suggestion we'll give all our audience certainly, which is how to Stay married?

On template?

What did you think of Private Joker? As far as he's also as much as we go, Why was Pile in the Army? I also had the same thought with Private Joker? Why did you join the army? I came to the conclusion experience almost he's a writer and he wanted to write about He does say he wanted to come to Vietnam and explore you own travel, which a lot of people did join the army all around various armies all around the world for the travel and for the experience, and maybe he fell into that camp.

Oh well, see, I don't I always just assumed that the Americans were drafted the way that the Australians were. But maybe I'm wrong him saying that, I don't know, or maybe I don't don't. I don't know. I assume, But you know, he's It's really interesting, isn't it that he there's certainly surprised when he's put into kind of the Stars and Strike newspaper, when he's when they when they're given their postings. It was really interesting that even back then, you know, that's where he's put to go.

And he doesn't intervene when he's in the helicopter and that gunman is shooting Vietnamese farmers who are running away and he's repulsed by it. He's not he doesn't in any way condone it, but he doesn't try to stop it. Now that could just be.

Yeah, that's why doesn't he does? He kind of ask why, and then he gets the explanation from that dude, and you just kind of go far out. It's almost like he he observes through the film the from a very kind of you know, from a platform of non judgment of these of the human race and how kind of fucked up this whole thing is. But he does it without judging.

I think you're right, and I think you know that also kind of I think complies with the idea that at the point I made before that I don't think you're Rick's making too many judgment calls. I think he's letting well, he's letting us make the judgment calls on war. And I think with the protagonist he used, that protagonist is almost the audience. It is fascinating. I think that he doesn't intervene and he's almost a mutual observer.

Yeah, because you know, when you take a character and by no means a similar character at all, but you've got a character like Forrest Gump, you know, and he travels through these different experiences and you know, he just exists within it. He's in the moment, and that's a little bit like you know, the private Joker. I guess in this film they're the protagonists, but they also kind of they just take you on their their journey and

It's a classic. We discussed Forrest Scump with Tanya Hennessy. That was that was a fun film. It's film almighty.

That list goes on.

It doesn't it doesn't stop.

When I said this podcasts, I was like, I'm going to run out of films like classic films. No, there's you know, it's around for a long time.

Do you know the other thing about full metal jackets, you know, like when you look at a script, I'd love to get my hands on the shooting script a full metal jacket because it's like when you look at the shooting script of Casablanca, it's fairly blanked, like the dialogue is there, but there's not a lot of big print, which is actually you know, usually see a script there's stacks and stacks of big print. But I'd be fascinated to see what the script of this one looks like.

Heard Dean say that when he received the scripts there was there was so little It looked nothing like the script that he would normally get, you know. It was his ideas and the curec was very collaborative, and they would really block out a scene and not just kind of run through, you know, the paces of it and

There and will mother. He's still lively as you been shot, maybe.

Alive, and they all go in and they realize there's only one sniper and they they to find this sniper. How do you think all it all came to a head?

I think it was really amazing the outcome of that whole sniper, you know, like you have it's that one thing about women in it. At the end, we find out who the sniper is and you see the treatment of women. It was really interesting when I watched that. And maybe that's because of the narrative that goes on for me now as a female and what goes on, But it's really interesting of who the sniper actually is.

And you're right, and I thought of it in those terms, maybe because I'm a man, but yeah, you've had these men disrespects local women and this, you know, the way they talk about women throughout the whole film is disrespectful. And to have this young I would have, you know, say, she's a teenage Vietnamese.

Yeah, but it's also interesting too because because she is a teenage female, because in the helicopter they have that conversation about shooting women and children, and I guess by her being a female teenager that encapsulates almost childhood and womanhood, you know, So in that one he has to take the life then of that person that he was discussing in helicopter, you know, absolutely.

And I think what it's also saying that helicopter saying is it's one thing to shoot.

I mean, it's Elvis horrific. I mean, it goes without saying that with you.

This is horrific. We're trying to see it through the eyes of the characters. And it's one thing to shoot, you know, shooting fish in a barrel or in a way where they are they are ants on a hill almost and they are running away you don't. You don't have to look at their faces. And then when we have Joker who goes in and sees sees he first sees the silhouette. Really he doesn't know even she's a

You know you need to you need to know.

I forget, I forget how he says it, but I know he says, you need to know this or otherwise when the moment comes, you'll stuff it up. And it's exactly what happens. His gun jams and he can't make the shots. She turns around, starts firing, and then she's eventually shot by it's the one that Joker didn't actually want to bring with him, which is interesting. Yeah, so then they've got her. They've got her, they've secured the area. There's no one else around, and they're all standing around

But the one character, you know that that kind of said, just let her die, you know, like he just he was happy for her to suffer because you know, they killed the friend, and you know he kind of lost all hope. He I reckoned that character of lost all.

Hope and again with Kerbrick.

As far as judgmentalse, I mean, that is a perfectly understandable position to take, you know, but you can look at it through twenty twenty one woke eyes of like, oh, she's a teenage girl. She's a teenage girl who's just shot and killed your two friends and if given the opportunity, would put a battle in you as well in war times again through the characters not necessarily as as people. Yeah,

Yeah, by killing her he actually does almost the humane thing, you know, I guess, yeah, that's.

How That's exactly how I read it. There's two different ways of saying it.

One of these like almost turned into this here's been this war monster, if you like. But for me, he actually did the humane thing.

Yeah, I agree, that's for how I saw it as well. But then we're just the kind of creatures that are always looking for for that side of things. I don't think he was a killer, you know, I don't. I don't think he had it in him. Think he just knew that that girl was suffering and that she she needed to go. And then of course then you get the scene walking as they walk down to the river.

Because when he shoots her and puts out of a misery pain, the other we say, oh, Matthew Modin, but the other soldiers.

Are saying, oh man, that's hardcore, and he almost looks a bit. It's something. I love those moments where you can read different things.

And you know, I watched it twice, and I've seen him many years ago that I watched it, thinking it almost there's an element of confusion for him to kind of go, what, hang on, I'm not that's not what you've misunderstood what I've just done. I've actually I've been I've shown some humanity. I'm not Yes, it is obviously a hardcore thing to do what you do when he just did, but it's still it comes from I think a humane place.

Yeah, because to walk away would have been more of a more of the worst, the worst of choice. Oh, I don't know. It's great when you have those moments, isn't it when you kind of sit there and go, you know, what do you think when you actually finish a film and you go you want to talk about it? And I'm sure that people would have wanted to talk about that when they left the cinema when it was released. You know, was he a good guy? Was he a bad guy?

And that's enjoyed.

The joy I found with these podcast is I think these days we you know, I'm not sure about you, but after we'll go see movies by myself and then I'll ask around if people have seen these films, and you might get the grab five minutes of discussing a film in a corridor somewhere before you all have to get back to work.

But this is what it's been.

Lovely to chat full metal jacket with you.

You know, like with all the films, whether it be E T or you know, a comedy film, it's always about the dilemma and choice, and I guess with audiences just recognize so much of that of ourselves in that. And you know that's when a film's really working, isn't it. Yes, I Glaury is discussing this to your people. I was just going to say, we should mention that when we rehearse scenes for How to Stay Married, that we you know, this is how we pull them apart, like pulling out

I can't believe that scene where you opened the door and walked into the house I made you do sixty seven times.

I feel, you know, embarrassed by that.

Now we should we should obviously it's great to have you on whilst How to Stay Marriage is on air. While we're recording, we encourage you to check out How to Stay Marriage. We are thrilled with the response. For season three. You can catch it on ten Play. It's on Tuesday nights on Channel ten of eight forty and also Friday Night on Core after the have you been paying Attention?

On Core?

And also after have You Been Paying Attention? The first run on Mondaday Nights. It's a little bit confused about nine to forty as well.

And we could probably alwayso tell people that if they're listening to this in twenty twenty six and we're going into our fortieth lockdown, you can probably do know a bit of catch up on how to stay marriage.

I've said this to you privately and I'm sure I've said the publicly, but i want to say it on my podcast. It is an absolute joy to work with you on that on our show, and you are so good. It will always be a point of pride in my career that I've managed to bring the comedic side of Lisa mcune to the Australian public.

Well, all I can say, Pete is that you're a great teacher and you run a good party, So I'll come to your parties anytime.

Is that's what going to work with you it is, But hopefully it's a little we'll fun than going to work for Stanley Kubrick.

I'm sure it was. It was great.

I've got some fun facts actually before some fun before we let you go. I've got some fun facts to finish up. We love a fun facts here on nothing yet. We'll work through these because I've kept you for long enough, Lisa mcune I didn't speak about the amount of takes that Kubrick asked for. He let Ermie only do a few takes of the drill Sergeant scenes. But there was one scene thirty seven times and it was actually a scene we didn't talk about, which is one of the big scene.

He was a jelly donut scene.

What is that, private pile?

Sorry?

Jelly donut, sir, jelly donuts?

Sorry, yes, sir.

How did it get here?

Sorry?

I took it from the messholl Sir.

Has Joe allowed in the barracks? Private pile? Sir?

No, sir?

Are you allowed to eat jelly donuts? Private pile?

Sir?

No, sir head Why not?

Private pile sir? Because I'm too heavy?

Served because you are a disgusting fat body private pile.

Sorry, yes, sir, bad. Why did you hide a jelly donut in your footlocker? Private file?

Sir?

Because I was hungry? Served because you were hungry? Private mile? Has just honored of and just hunter of batoon. I have tried to help him, but I have failed. I have failed because you have not helped me.

You people have not given private pile the over all measure. Tell from now on, whatever a private Pile fox up, I will not punish him, I will punish.

All of you.

And the way I see it, ladies, you owe me for one jelly donut. Now get on your patient, open your mouth.

They're paying for it.

You eat it. Exercise.

That was fun.

Yes, that was a full on scene, wasn't it. I really I really felt free in them. I know in how does they married? You would have to bring a snack from breakfast to ses? Can you just confirm I never treated you like that.

I can confirm that you weren't that harsh. I mean, there were moments and there were times where we're at loggerheads, but we always knew you. With the man with the hat, the man with.

The gun, brother Joker, we only know his name if you were paying attention. And on the back of his shirt it's J. T. Davis. And that's a reference to the first recorded death US death in Vietnam, JT. Davis in nine to sixty one. So that's a nod to that.

Wow, I bet OLLI doesn't even know that. I'll tell him that's cool telling that.

Yeah, you mentioned earlier Vincent Delafrio put on seventy pounds.

That is a record. I still think it's a record.

Had Denio by ten pounds, who Dinner put on sixty pounds for Raging Ball. So well done to Vincent Donofrio.

He's still that way.

He's very good in Godfather of Harlem at the moment you see Godfather of Harlem Vincent and also Forrest Whitaker.

Check it out, okay, god writing that.

There was a family of rabbits that were accidentally killed during the filming of this, and it upset Stanley Currick so much he canceled filming for that day.

So there you go. More humans will he killed in the In the filming of this.

R Lee Emory also had a car accident during filming and he's left he's left ribs or broken, so he had to take I think four and a half months off.

If you notice in some scenes his left arm doesn't move at all. So the shooting for this went for about a year.

So a large part of it actually was the fact that they had to suspend some filming for r le Emory to heal. Vincent Andfrey also tare ligaments in his knee during the training exercises. So there are some fun facts there's and there's so many facts like you said

Oh, I know we're a bit shocked when I chose this film, Pete, do you think that this is a bit of a weird one for me to choose. Did you think that I was going to do Sound of Music or something?

Well, No, I knew wouldn't do Sound of music because I was pretty sure you'd seen Sound of Music.

Oh, yeah.

True, as we're talking about films we haven't seen. Yeah no, I'm really glad that I've got this kind of wealth of knowledge in my son, who is becoming a movie buff.

As my internet connection starts breaking up because kids are remote learning. Thank you very much, Lisa mceune for watching this film. This podcast comes with homework. I appreciate you doing it. And check Lisa mchowne out of course on how to Stay Married on Channel ten.

Thanks Lis you beautiful man Pete.

I've love doing it.

Well.

That was a whole bunch of fun. Lisa mcewne, and she is such a bloody delight and I love I really love working with her, and we often chat about this kind of stuff between takes and on set on how to Stay Married. We love talking about cinema and film and television and the arts.

And it's great to have her two cents.

And I know Olie to her son, who's really deep diving into cinema in a really great way. So Oli, if you're listening to this, mate, keep it up, and thanks for helping your mummy. I think you gave your mum a few pointers here and there for Full Metal Jacket.

Great work. Thank you Lisa.

Once again, Casway Studios dot com dot you is where you need to go for your podcast needs.

That's where I record.

Everyone just reminded that this one was recorded during lockdown, so we're on Zoom for this one, so it doesn't have to quite.

Have the same pristine.

Sound quality that we get when we record at Cassway Studios with Derek Meyers who joins us.

Now, Derek, how are you mate?

Oh, fantastic bit shook up after.

That movie Watch Street Full Metal Jacket. Had you seen I.

Would have seen it when it came out.

There seemed to be a lot of Vietnam War stuff there, and I think it was had a quite a bit more impact. I guess the boot camp and all that and just watching the processes.

I had a question for you.

Marines' a bit naive about the American military, but were they actually people that volunteered to do this, like as a special force or something like that.

Like when they said that you passed.

Yet the pass of training to you know, to then they wouldn't let you go to war if you were in apps or physically incapable, so you'd have to pass the Marines. So it kind of came up briefly during a check of Lisa that weren't sure if these people had been conscripted or if they had willingly signed up themselves, and maybe it was a mix. If you do know you has any podcast at gmail dot com, send us any information you have on that and any question you have,

Yeah.

Well, I'm fascinated by the full metal jacket. I looked while you were talking. I googled it, and it's a type of bullet that has a the actual bullet part that goes you know, into you it's actually got a bit of other metal around it rather than just lead. And it was invented in the eighteen hundreds. I can't remember where, but somewhere in Europe in order it for mechanical type loading systems so they wouldn't jam with the lead or squishing and stuff.

There you go, right, So, yeah, okay, see I knew it was some kind of casing, you know, went on the bullet, but yeah, it's a more detail there, so not not necessarily the whole bullet but.

Just something on the tip there.

Yeah, something like that.

Watching it back, and I hadn't seen it for many I hadn't seen it for many years. But it's funny how I actually remembered more the first half than the second half. And like I mentioned, a lot of people do prefer the first half and the second, but I do think they are missing out on what is a fascinating second half of Full Metal Jacket. And maybe it needs a second watch, and I think it does improve on the second and third watch definitely. But yeah, hey,

Or rachel Orford contacted and I'll read it out. I watched in Bruges when it first came out, but in a bit of a newborn babe Hayese fog and couldn't really remember all the intricacies. I started listening to the podcast, but thought I should maybe rewatch it and refresh my memory before you guys discussed all the details. I watched it last night, Thank you, thank you for making me

Ah. Thank you so much Rachel for that.

I had seen that and so it was a thrill to get that, and I do love I keep saying that this little community we're building, I really appreciate or everybody reaching out, even when people are reaching out to correct something that we may have gotten wrong.

Everyone's been so respectful about it.

And in this day and age, if we can keep our little community like that, then I'll be absolutely thrilled. So thank you so much, Rachel. And I saw Manari actually during the week, which is the Korean film that was nominated for the Oscar. There was the grandmother in that one, the I think best supporting actress, and that was a great film. So I also go check out Manari if you've already checked out Nomad Land and The Father.

Fee and Me.

You might want to check that out before next week's episode. And also she was on series two of How to Stay Marriage. She was in an episode which I also had written and directed, so I think it was episode four last year with Steve Bisley and Linda Cropper as well Diana's work out there on Temple if you like, and check out all those episodes of How to Stay Married.