Good day, Peter Helly here, welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet? The movie podcast where I chat to a movie lover about a classic or beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now. And today's guest comedian podcaster mate Justin Hamilton.
Nice spot.
Wax On, wax Off. I do wish we could chat linger, but.
I'm having an old frian fordnight.
But me haven't a right.
Nothing.
I have a dirty secret. You ain't seen nothing yet, fans. This isn't my first movie podcast, no way Back almost a decade ago, I did a little podcast called Hellia and Hammo Dig Flicks with my great mate Justin Hamilton. We started that podcast because well, I enjoyed speaking to no one about movies more than I did with my mate Hammo. I met Hamo a couple of decades ago when he was putting the La comedy scene on his
back with another great mate of mine, Limo. He eventually moved to Melbourne, where he built his audience not through TV appearances or radio gigs, but by smashing it every time.
He hit the stage.
Not only is Justin Hamilton one of the top stand up comedians in the country, he's also one of the most in demand writers in.
Australia as we speak.
He also has a brilliant pop cultural podcast called Big Squid, amongst many other things. Check out Big Squid. It is going bananas. Hamo isn't the kind of comic that asks what is comedy right now? Instead, Hamilton masks what can comedy be? I'm bloody stoked they have my mate, Justin Hamilton hanging out with me today.
Hello, my name is Justin Hamilton. And as of today, the twenty eighth of July twenty twenty one, my three favorite films are Interstellar.
I Just Love We Forgotten Who We Are.
Now, Miller's Crossing.
Now If you can't trust the Fixed, what can you Drift?
And Lost Highway.
But as of just recently, I had never seen the movie The French Connection.
It's nineteen seventy one New York City and a decade of paranoia is about to begin, and what better way to kick it off than with Gene Hackman's complicated, booze fueled Jimmy Popeye Doyle and Roy Scheider's bruised and beaten Cloudy Russo zigzagging their way through urban New York in Trench coats peering through shot windows on the tail of Frog one and Frog two. Yeah, we might talk about
that later. William Freakin's breakout film explores the thin line between good and evil as Doyle and Russo stumble upon a drug ring with origins in France, with a cracking score from Don Allis. Shot almost handheld documentary Stye by dop Owen Roseman his first film, He Went Under the Shoot the Exercise with Freaking also Tutsian Network, Nice and Nice CV there based on a book by Robert Moore, The French Connection is a movie that set the tone for generations.
Of cop movies that followed.
It also contains one of the best car chases of all time, Hammo out of interest? Did you pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?
Why do you keep asking me that.
You got nothing to do with the film, like every.
Time it's been years. It's the first thing you've ever asked me. I can't keep you knowing it. I can't keep denying it.
Stop picking your feet, not just in Paul Keepsy, in Adelaide, in Sydney, in Melbourne. This stopped doing it. It's gross.
It's a bad habit. It's a nervous tick.
We'll get to that line maybe when we talk more about the film later on, but it's certainly one that caused me a bit of confusion. But you nominated a few films off the list that I give as a guide, and it's just a guide for my guests to kind of pick a thought starters. There were quite a few films, about half a dozen films you came back with. We've done quite a bit of the eighties recently, so I
was keen to get out of the eighties. So I was pretty happy you chose the French Connection from nineteen seventy one because I had seen it. But I reckon what I did is I watched it before I was ready to actually watch it. I reckon I watched it in my teens when this felt it just felt boring to me, and I think I kind of find I may even fast forward it to the Car Chase, which I i'd heard was one of the your time great
car chasers. So I've kind of really fall in tenth and purposes, felt like I was watching it again for the first time. But why did you choose the French Connection in the end.
So that's really funny because so a couple of things. One is, I thought I'd never seen it. Well, for a while, I thought I had seen it because the car chase, specifically that scene of Gene Hackman's Popeye who nearly takes out a young woman with her pram, and that scene is so kind of indelible. It was like, oh, yeah, I must have seen this movie heaps of times. And
then I realized, oh no, I haven't seen it. And not only haven't I seen it, but do you remember when DVDs, not when they first came out, but when they became so ubiquitous, there would be sales all the time to get rid of the stock. And that was one of the movies that I bought I reckon a good ten to twelve years ago that when you said let's do that one, I was like, great, because you know what, I can finally do unwrap it like it was. It was still stuck all up in the collection.
So I was like, this is great. So I peeled it open.
Then I watched it, and then it was weird because I felt like I was getting flashes of it, like hang on and maybe I have seen this. And then I spoke to my mum and she reckons I have seen it, but probably exactly the same way you viewed it, probably quite young. I reckon it might have been one of those things where Mum was up watching a film I didn't want to go to bed, she said, do you want to watch this?
And I probably.
Checked out at some point because in the ways it is, it's a real throwback film.
There's not a lot of dialogue.
It is kind of the boring aspects of police work, which is a lot of just standing around in the cold, watching other people eat really good food. And also Gene Hackman's character is compelling but quite shocking, and I think he was probably shocking to me as a teenager and in the current era, like there's a lot to unpack there with Popeye, right.
There really is, there really is, And you're right, it does take a while, it takes its time.
You're absolutely right.
It dives into the boring aspects of policing, like you say, and I think as a teenager watching it, and to be honest, no doubt many adults. I'll be interested to see what when our listeners think of the French connection if they haven't seen it. And I had the same feeling when I watched a conversation about ten years ago just how, which is maybe I think three years after this another kind of surveillance film starring Gene Hackman, made
by Francis for Popular And there's the pacing. Sometimes you see a film and this is what I love doing this podcast because I know I'm kind of forced to watch it. I'm kind of like, I don't like there have been films that I've watched for this podcast, like Butchercassid in The Sundance Kid and straight away I'm like, I love this film, I'm here for it. This wasn't one of those films for me. I had to work and I, you know, I'm probably getting two into the film that I kind of like to at this stage
of the podcast, but I had to. I had to kind of, you know, kind of mindfully keep engage myself and remind myself that I need to be talking about this with Hamo in the morning, so you need, you need, you need to watch. And I got there. I got there, you know, and I I you know, but it is, you know those seventies films that they are at different pace.
We're so used to things happening, you know, and getting spoon fed and having stuff delivered on the plate to us these days, and this film does not do that in any way, shape or form.
Yeah, it's fascinating.
It's it also has a definitive pace, which is, as you said, very seventies, but it also has an aesthetic that feels very modern. And you know, like, so I was reading about how Freed. Can you know the way it's shot. It's shot like a documentary. It doesn't go looking for the characters. Characters kind of walk into the shot, and that hit that hadn't really been done before. I think there was a French movie that he'd seen that he was inspired by, and because he had a documentary background,
he applied it to this film. But you know, they're very different films. But funnily enough, I was getting a tenant vibe from it with the look of it and the way it was shot in the lack of dialogue and the seventies esthetic is it's quite popular amongst a lot of filmmakers now and then they've just sped it up with things kind of happening. But at the same time, one of the most riveting scenes and it's a funny thing to say, but one of the most riveting scenes.
Is gene Hack been.
Trying to tail the bad guy and then walking on and off a train?
Yes, yes, how is this riveting? But it is absolutely and I love that scene and I have led you way further down this path that I plan to go at this stage of the film. But this is what Hammo and me do. We basically we get chatting. Hamers in Sydney, I'm in Melbourne. We used to hang out a lot, like physically, you know, catch up. We had going to do that. We have a podcast. I mentioned that in the intro and that was basically was we
made that because based on the conversation we're having. Listen, we want to this record these conversations we're having and why we wasted it. But it's always hard the court. It takes me about fifteen minutes to get the work each day, and it's it's not quite well, it's nowhere near enough time for me to call you in that time.
So we actually hadn't spoken to each other for a little while, because even though despite the various lockdowns you know, this year, we hadn't spoked with each other for a little while. So if there's a lot to a lot to talk about and I want to talk about your three favorite films. I suspect you have and correct me if I'm wrong. I suspect. I'm always fascinated by the psychology of my guests and how they kind of go about deciding.
Their three fe films.
I like the fact that you stamped it because this could change, I imagine at any point in time. But I imagine it's a reflection of interests, even though there's you know that these films aren't necessarily a mile apart. But would I be wrong in saying you were You would have been tempted to have three Christopher Nolan films as your top three films? Did you have? Is in No Stella? The at the Outright? Your outright Christopher Nolan is at the Dark Knight, you know the you know, almost level
with it. How closest tenant there because you are a a Nolan well, the biggest Nolan fan that I know.
Yeah, It's It's one of those things. It's funny because I was a fan from I remember seeing Memento at the cinema and it was like one of those what just happened kind of movies? You know what you walk out and then it's like, well, I'm going to keep an eye on what this guy next. And then of course the next film he makes is Insomnia and I love al Pacino, and it's Robin Williams in a you know, before he started doing a few more darker roles. It was like, holy shit, what is this with Robin Williams.
And then of course Batman begins came out, and I remember being halfway through that film and he just became Batman and turning around to our friend Adam Richard and saying, I hope it doesn't shit the bed now, like this has been really good and he hasn't even become Batman yet. So you know, I've enjoyed all of his films. No, it's Interstella is definitely my favorite. I think Dunkirk might actually be his best film. I think Dunkirk is a masterpiece. And I was, I was all over Tenant.
I was.
You know, that to me was pure Nolan heroin straight into my eyes.
And if someone said to me I didn't like it for these reasons, I like, go, oh, yeah, fair enough.
But I guess what, I loved it every second of it.
My brother said to me the other day, I just saw the worst film I've ever seen.
I said, what you guys are or something.
I said, Listen, it's not the worst one you've ever seen, but it's not for everyone. It's not for every everyone, but it's you know, you need pages. I saw that with Luke McGregor in the cinema. Is actually the first movie I saw in the cinema when we came out of one of the lockdowns, and it was kind of joyous as to be in a cinema and I really enjoyed.
I'll need to watch it again to have like even really even a conversation with you about it, despite the fact I'm going to ask you more quich it's probably more about any to sell it. But I need to see it again. But the one thing I remember saying that Luke is fuck. I love Christopher Nolan's ambition, you know. I really like he's nowhere.
Near resting on his laurels. I don't think no, And.
It's look, essentially, it makes as much sense as a Bond film, and that's what it is. It's just his his version of a Bond film, which isn't cluttered with any sense of history. It can just be its standalone thing. It's almost like yours. It's an origin movie. It could be the third of a five part series. It has the potential for more story, but in a weird way, I don't want them. I like that this is one of many that and this is the only one he's
going to produce. Like what ruined Star Wars, I don't need fucking prequels. I don't need sequels. Just give me the original trilogy.
You know.
So that's all he's going to give me with Tenate. That's why I love about Inception. You could have heapsmall movies about Inception, but just one is really tasty, and I think it does kind of make sense if you you know. Of course, it's overwhelming when you first see it because it's a spectacle, but the more you watch it, there is it does make sense. And I like the ambiguity about it, which is a word that we'll get back to later on, especially with the French connection.
It's something that I've enjoyed in the last.
Few years, and it's it's where I would rather work, which is the ambiguous state of storytelling where whoever's watching it can kind of project what they want to believe onto it.
And in a way.
You know.
That's why I think Tenet does beautifully.
And then if you really want to do a deep dive, look up what a statur squad where is and realize that Nolan has made his version of a Sataur square.
I won't say anything more.
Just look it up or listen to my podcast Big Squid, where I fucking break that shit down.
But it's right.
But Interstellar is It is everything I like in a.
Recipe, cook perfectly and served up, and I was just wrapped with it. I love sci fi. I love big ideas. I love you know, the idea of you know. I also like that it's kind of a little bit scary and that it's like a documentary from the future. And if you think I'm overreacting, check out the dust storms that are happening through China at the moment. And don't tell me that you want to suddenly become a corn farmer so you have a job in the future.
You know.
It's yeah, I mean the rise of the rise of you know the way that with global warming, with politics, with with I said, dust storms, with my back of mice plagues. Yeah, you know, there's a feeling, there's a feeling that we're closer to the end, then we are to start.
Well, that's it, and that you can kind of look at Nolan's last three films, Interstellar, Dunkirk, and Tenant, and they are about survival and they are about trying to overcome utter annihilation. And even though you know, Dunkirk's quite clearly a film about war and something that really happened, that there aren't any victories in other than getting back to safety and sort of celebrating that that is a
victory in itself. And you know, Intenant the idea, and it's a heady idea, but the idea that the future is so terrible that they're willing to destroy the past in the hope that that somehow makes the future better. They don't know if it will, but that's how bad things have gotten. And you go, ohh that is that is a heady philosophical conundrum to think about, all wrapped up in very handsome John David Washington and Robert Patterson kicking arms.
And what I love about Nolan's film, what I you know, admire about Tenant is you can still go, like I the way I watch films is I don't necessary I'm not necessarily trying to solve every crime or kind of generally I'm the first watch.
I'm letting it wash over me.
I'm not trying to which which makes you know Nolan films when he's in his Interstellar inception, you know, it can be problematic in a way because those films do demand, I think, a bit of work, and you're in they They've always got my attention in my engagement. But I
am just letting it wash over me. But what I love about Nolan is at a base level, even if it's just the fact that you are getting little endorphine hits, because the things that didn't you you were confused about in the first half of the film, slowly start making sense. Even if it's like, oh, that's where that spinning car came from. Yeah, yeah, that's that spinning cat. Like that, There's these little things that kind of at least keep
you going, Ah, I'm following some of this. You know, I'm not completely down with every philosophical you know, wormhole Nolan's going down here, but I remember that spinning car from earlier.
Yeah, well, you know, the thing to kind of remember with him is that he's a fan of movies and he watches all the Marvel movies, and he loves the Fast and the Furious franchise, and you know, loves the James Bond franchise. And you know, even when he loves those franchises, the Bond film he loves the most is the George Lazenbury one, and the Fast and the Furious movie he loves is the one that people don't like much,
which is Tokyo Drift. You know, he's a and the thing is is that he loves the work of Kubrick. But the movie that changed his life was Star Wars. And so when you take all of that into account, it's funny. Sometimes you hear people getting angry like he's trying to bamboozle you, and it's no, no, no, no, he's not trying to bamboozle you. He's trying to give you the same sentenceation he felt when he saw Luke sky
Walker stare at two sons. He wants to give you something that you've never seen before, and he wants to do it in an entertaining way. And he's not going to talk down to you like he'll give he'll give you jumping on points. I think that's one of the criticisms of Nolan that sometimes his dialogue explains what's going on. But also I'd say, for you know, a ten year old who's watching Tenant, if you've got someone explaining how it works, like, I'm fine with that. He's a populis.
His movies aren't m rated, they're PG. He wants everyone to see them, and he wants everyone to have a good time and walk out of it feeling like they've experienced something new. I think that's quite quite a lofty ambition in a movie director these days.
Absolutely, the Coen Brothers. I'm not surprised to see the Coen Brothers on you lease. I thought either there will be three Nolan films, and I thought possibly couple. The Coen Brothers is one. But Miller's Crossing is a fine pixer.
Oh my god, such a good film.
Once again, the ambiguity of Gabriel Byrne in that where it's funny he's kind of really loyal, but he's also loyal to himself, and he does he makes disloyal decisions, and he's just he's in such a moral gray area. But at the end, you know he's he's done all the right things. And in his inability to change means that he kind of comes out alone out of it.
You know. It's the music's beautiful.
I remember seeing it at the cinema and Carter Burwell's music and the and the hat, you know, floating across the forest, and it was just such a such a stunning film, and a lot of the like.
It was hard to pick a Coen Brothers film.
Actually, I could have plumped for A Serious Man, you know, which is one of those underrated Coen Brothers films where if you really pay attention, it is really funny and there's a lot going on inside. Lewin Davis is all so underrated, but you know, and then of course the classics like Fargo, No Country for Old Men, you know, the Big Lebowski, like, they're all such great films, and but Miller's Crossing is the one that.
I think is the emotional favorite.
Carter Burwell is just a genius. He like, he's one of the few. Maybe I should listen to more scores when I'm in my car, but he's he's scores or one of the the you know, the who he's a composed that I was just one of the few composed older put on in the car and listen to I mean, he's burn after reading. It's funny you think mentioned Bern after reading? How good are the Caen Brothers' career is?
When Burn after reading is not one of the movies you mentioned when you mentioned eight other films they've done.
I know that's got one of the greatest moments in movie history, where you're sitting there going I can't wait for Brad Pitt and George Clooney to finally meet up.
Did you seriously do this to us? Which is great?
I think I think Ben after reading. I think George Clooney at his comedic best. I think sometimes he overdoes it sometimes, and I think he's overdone it in some other Coen Brothers films. But and it's Brad Pitt at his funniest as well. Everyone's so good in that film. I love it. Miller's Crossing, I just think of that. I think of the hat when when I when I think of Miller's Crossing, I just think of that's that
that that that hat. You know, in the wind, the leaves, the autumn leaves, it is it is stunning.
In the cutterbell Well composition.
So many great set pieces you know, the when they tried to take out the big Boss, Albert Findy and he pulls out the machine gun to Danny Boy, Like that is amazing. The I don't think i'd ever seen John Taturo in a film before. So the you know, the look into your heart, Tommy, look into your heart, you know, all of that's so fantastic. And then his heel turn is just pitch perfect. You know, the great scene where you know the Dane is, you know, looks
like he's going to choke Tom Reagan to death. All the weird camera angles and the and the heat you can feel the heat in that scene. You know, It's just got so many great moments, and you know I saw that probably around the time. So I think I saw The Untouchables was the first film that I became seriously obsessed with that was kind of like my gateway
to grown up films on my own. Like, you know, there's the time where your parents show your grown up movies that you like, but then there's the grown up movie that.
You find off the back of being interested.
So I saw The Untouchables and then that kind of opened up the world of the Godfather Godfather Part two. I think Goodfellas came out in a similar time, and I remember around that period seeing Miller's Crossing, and I put that up there with all of those.
You mentioned.
Ambiguity and the Coen Brothers a good one to look at ambiguity in films because they possibly are the masses at it. Like people are often trying to die sect Coen Brothers films. They're quite reluctant to discuss their films and the themes of their films in any specific detail. And I've heard them say, to be honest, people, they say, people people think of films mean you know a lot, They mean less than they think you know. And like and I love, I love that. It seems like it
might be a theme today. But I think the Coen Brothers, they are making films, they're smart films, and no doubt there's there's themes, you know, in these films, and but there is ambiguity all through their films.
Yeah. I think what you do is, this is my guess.
Anyway, you make a film and you have everything in your head about what it's about, and you just don't give everyone every bit of information. And I can't tell you how relieved I am that the Coen Brothers don't talk about their films because recently, Quentin Tarantino, it's been on the campaign trail and a few podcasts I listened to.
He's been on talking about how he wrote a novelization of What's Upon a Time in Hollywood, which was a movie that when I first saw it, I enjoyed it while I was watching, and then I got out of there, and I didn't know how I felt about it because Mum had been a big fan of Sharon Tate, and so I'd known that story about her for like forty years, and I didn't know how I felt about where it ended up and what it said about her. And it took me a few days to think about it, and
then I kind of came to the conclusion. I know, I think it's a work of genius because it's the first time I've thought of Sharon Tate as an actress and not a murder victim. And I think that is a great thing to you bestow upon someone who has filled in a part of pop culture for terrible reasons.
But he's been talking recently, and he's just been pointing out what some scenes actually mean, like the fight with Bruce Lee which I always saw as Brad Pitt's carrick to being an unreliable narrator and remembering something how he wanted it to be. But Tarantino has come out and said no, no, no, like in the context of the movie that actually happened, and it's like, you just kind of shat on your own movie, Like don't why are
you telling me? Like you shot it in a way for me to make up my own mind, and now you're telling me my mind was wrong, And I don't like this decision.
Boom shitting on his own movie perhaps, and also shitting on the legacy and memory of you know, Bruce Lee, which you know, I think he's I think he's been forced to discuss this a little bit recently because Shannon Lee, Bruce's daughter with discusses a bit on the show recently. Yeah, has come out and said, yeah, not not cool. It's not cool.
And you know, he's saying, oh, I did all this research and all these people said these things, and it's like everyone's come out so no, like what's he talking about?
You know?
So anyway, but so I love that the Coen Brothers don't come out of nowhere and say, now let us explain the Big Lebowski and I'd be like, la l l l L LAA, No, don't ruin it, It's all good.
I'm fine.
Yeah, David Lynch is somebody who I'm not an aficionado on David Lynch by any stretch of imagination. I do remember seeing Lost Highway in cinemas and really enjoying it, and I don't think I've watched it since, So I would even struggle to recall the plot line, to be honest, of this David Lynch film outside of David Arkettes in.
It, is that right?
Patricia Arquette, Patricia Arkeett one of the art kids in there. Some readys I can see David Arkette in it, but Patricia Arquette is in it and Bill Pullman, Bill Pullman, that's it. I was actually, yes, yes, yes, what's it about?
So it came out in sort of like the mid to late nineties and wasn't a big hit at all, but it was. It kind of emotionally predicts the twenty first century, and it's a bit of a horror movie, but in a very David Lynch way. So essentially, Bill Pullman's character is a saxophonist, and he plays at night, and then he and his wife, who's played by Patrice Sharqett, start getting delivered these video cassettes, and the video cassettes when they put them on and watched them, it's them
being filmed at night. And then eventually a few strange things happen, and then at some point his wife is murdered and he's taken away as a suspect, even though he claims he didn't do it. And then while he's in jail, he becomes a completely different person, a young man who then goes back to his life, and it is that's essentially what the movie is about. And it's no,
there's nothing spelled out for you. There is nothing that is pointed to at any point that you can say, ah, did you see that scene where they pointed to that and that told you everything.
There's nothing like that at all. And one of the things I love in.
Storytelling is a circular shape, and there's a circular shape to this film, which is what to me spells out the horror of it. And it is, you know, it's funny in points, like a David Lynch film, but you know, a good horror film does make your laugh sometimes it's not jump scares. It's an emotional horror of being disassociated from your life and the trouble that can get you into. And I come back to it all the time. I
think it's a I think it's a masterpiece. But once again, I could imagine some people watching it and going, geezu, this is taking a while, and wow, I got to the end, and I really have no idea what happened. But I think it's a I think it's an immersive film. And if you kin'd of give yourself over to it, watch it in the dark, don't you know? As as we hear inten, don't try I try to understand it. Just feel it and you will be taken on a real journey.
Yeah. And I think if I hadn't have seen it in the cinema, I may have, you know, I may have drifted off and got distracted by various things around me.
And I think youre absolutely right.
I should revisit it, actually, because I remember really enjoying it at the time. We're going to take a break and then we're going to come back, and I want to know what you actually thought of William Freakin's nineteen seventy one classic the French connection. All right, we're back with Justin Hammered and Hammo. I need to know what what do you what do your thought? We did?
We did? You know, we share some thoughts earlier. But did you like it? Oh?
I loved it like I loved it and I was riveted And.
You know, I think I mentioned this earlier.
It's it's strangely modern, like the way the camera moves and the way it depicts people. It's i'll tell you what, it's confronting as well, because especially watching it in the modern day, I don't think you were ever meant to like the character of Popeye, but even more so now with how we know, you know, some aspects of American police force were you're sitting there going, oh, the casual racism, the just the.
Well the first scene where one of the first scenes where they're basically you know, they're dressed up as Santa and then they're beating up a you know African American kid, you know, or you know, a young adult. It's it's it's really, it is really hard to watch. And most of the black characters you know ari that yeah, you know criminals or you know drug users, you know, are problematic, you know, so, yeah, that is you know, yeah, that
is tough to watch in twenty twenty one. You know, I'm not sure how it felt in nineteen seventy one.
Yeah, I don't. Yeah, that's a really good question. Actually, I wonder how it did feel in nineteen seventy one. You know, it's an R rated film, so I don't think it's meant to be consumed by the masses. It's definitely a grown up movie. I think it's probably depicts the world that those characters live in perfectly, and I think that's what, in the end, watching it with that context in mind, is what made the film not feel exploitive. It was, Okay, well, this is their world. It's not
a world that I particularly like. It's not a world that I would particularly want to visit, but I understand that's the world that they're in. But it's a hell of a performance by both of them. Gene Hackman, his
intensity all the way through it is great. And I'm also curious to know if you thought that there were times where Roy Scheider is actually laughing as Roy Scheider, because you know, when gene Hackman's on a roll trying to get information there's a couple of shots where you see Roy Scheider walking off laughing, and I honestly feel like that was him kind of breaking character, but still somehow being in character because Popeye is so ridiculous and being over the top.
I love that.
I hope you're right. I'm going to have to go back and watch it again. I certainly think Roy Schid is the his character is the more passive of the two. I think if you always have one criticism of the yeah, you've got Popeye Doyle, who's, you know, a fascinating character, and Roy Schard is kind of along for the ride.
Yeah, Well, you kind of get flashes of his character in that. Once again, you don't really spend as much time with him, but you do pick up he's incredibly loyal, but he doesn't the reason he gets along with Popeye's he'll put up with his ship to a certain extent, but then there'll be moments when he pushes back and will sort of, you know, slap him around a little
bit to get him back on track. But then you know, especially in that phenomenal scene, once again, describing it will sound strange that it's riveting, But when they're pulling the car apart looking for the drugs, and that scene goes forever, and the longer it goes, you're like, this has.
Been a terrible mistake.
And we've seen them more at stakes, so it's quite on the cards that they have fucked this.
Up, absolutely, And and I think it's it's it's it's set up from the very opening that this is a film that's going to take its time, you know, And I it's it's like on this podcast chatting about how a movie starts, you know, what it sets up. And I think, what what this movie sets up? What freaking's trying to do? You have the the French guy who we we don't know who this guy is. We suspect he's on the lookout. He's kind of doing his own
little stakeout. He's kind of hiding behind corners. He's he's spying on some people. And then we just follow him like he's eating eating a baghet or something, and then he has a baguet, and then and then and and then he just walks through the streets of Massaill and we're following and we think, okay, this guy's.
You know, one of the players of this this.
Film, And and then he just gets shot in the head. The point where I was like, when the gun came up, I'm like, they're not going to shoot him because he's like, he's a guy, he's a person of interest obviously because they spent two minutes, you know, walking the streets and a sign within. But no, he gets shot in the head and blood splood on the walls. Very red.
The blood is very red.
In this film.
It's exciting.
I think I think it might have had some had some filtering in post go on, there some grading. But and then the lovely touch of the killer basically taking a little bit of breadstick and theget. It was a lovely touch.
It is. I'm so glad you brought that up.
That was one of my notes that I wrote down because it made me laugh so much because you've just seen this poor guy get shot in the face. And not only does the guy go and take the beget, but he only takes.
Some of it, Like he just takes it. I take the whole fucking beget, mate, He's paid for it.
Well, unless unless the rest of the beget had some blood on it, because there there's a lot of there was a lot of splatter.
I would have loved to have seen that.
Actually, just like brushing a little bit of blood off the beget before before reading it. I must I think I thought of you when I when that happened, because I thought, I reckon Hammo is going to be chuckling at that.
Yeah, no, you know, well, I just know it is.
It's such a perfect little kind of touch to add to a film, isn't it That it just walks over. I'll just take a little bit, keeps walking and that's the end of that guy's story.
And then it's juxtaposed beautifully. Yeah, you got the basically the south of France and the year on the the rivery era, I guess, and the house of the criminal, you know, our mastermind criminal kind of lives and then he's going to be the villain for the film. And and then you go to Brooklyn and you you see Hackman and Scheider on on. You know, it's interesting because you have the they sat up the bad guy, they set the killer. You know, he kills somebody, you know, okay,
he's the killer. And you have the cops you know, on a on a on a steakhout. If you're like an and the resting criminals, you know, so everyone's clearly defined very early on in this film. So Hackman is dressed up as Santa, which I guess tells you that you know he's you know he's not. He's prepared to do he thinks outside the square, this guy, which is
a nice, nice touch. And then we lead into the scene which is you know it is it is a tough watch and they drag him into the alleyway and they had this conversation with him and I mentioned this, I ask you this, it's worth having a little chat about this is this is the scene where they are really playing the good cop backup with the that the young man theyver they've dragged away. And there's a week question that that Gene Hackman's popeye keeps asking the time,
I know what's saying? That streat he lives on ship ed was like playing pick your feet?
What was he talking about?
A man?
You want to talk to you?
You have.
You ever been for Keepsie?
Talk about you said? Come on, have you ever been for Keepsie? You better Forughkeepsie? Haven't you I want to hear it?
Come on, yes, have you been there?
Right? Yeah?
You sat on the edge of the back.
Didn't you can you talk of your shoes, put your finger between you toes and pick your feet, don't you?
That's all right?
You want to see you on my fight?
You know what that means?
God damn it? Oh what wrong?
I got graper Balis bowling scores.
Now I'm gonna bust your aut for those three bags and I'm gonna na from your fet forep.
I mean, it's it's strange, like it's so the story behind it is so the two, the two. So this is based on a book. The book was touched boring, so we in Freaquent wasn't particularly interested in adapting it.
But then he actually met, uh, two of the guys who did what was he we were involved with this big kind of drug busts uh and and they cops the names were it was Grasso and Aiden I think their names were, and they he hung out with them and thought, oh, you guys are really interesting and would follow him around on bus and and like go, wow, okay, maybe I could take that story, but add a whole lot of you know, add a car chase, and add you know, some set pieces and and some fun stuff
and and and apparently they had dressed up as Santa claus as, you know, to bust people.
They yeah, you know, Popeye.
Would would ring the bell twice to alert the police to come and arrest somebody. But apparently one of the tactics was that Popeye would often ask somebody.
Did you did you.
Say did you pick your feet?
In Portkeepsi?
In a way to throw to confuse the guys, they're kind of who are they're interrogating so and then when so when his partner comes in and asks the question that they actually want to ask, he's kind of almost relieved that he can actually answer this question because he knows what they're talking about. So it was that kind
of a tactic. So I've used it here. But for me, I must say, it kind of just confused me because I was going, what, like you're trying to work out early on in the movie, and again I'm trying to let it wash over me, but I'm kind of think, okay, you're still trying to follow it, and I'm thinking, what, Okay, so there's something that happening Poughkeepsie. Okay, I'll keep that in mind, Poughkeepsi. And then it doesn't it does not come up again.
Well, it comes up very briefly, and so I was like you. I was like, what is going on here? Do I need to remember about this? And then the I figured it must have been a tactic to make someone feel disorientated, but I didn't I didn't know if there was a specificity to that term. And the only reason I sort of thought it must be So that's one of the scenes where Roy Scheider starts laughing, and so he turns away at one point and he's got
the giggles. So I'm thinking, Okay, well, there's there's something going on there. And then later on one of the other cops says to Popeye, are you still picking your feet and poughkeepsie?
You know? And he right?
So I was like, oh, is he known for this?
So I didn't know if there was a specific thing to it or is it essentially just absurdism and you and by keep asking a question that they have that he bullies them into saying yes. So then when they do ask the right question, it will just be easier for them to be honest because they've already been bamboozled so much.
Is that that's essentially both right?
I think that's absolutely correct.
Yeah, And then they shot that they went to shoot out I think on the first day, and Gene Hackman was quite uncomfortable, you know, with the racist elements. So even he I guess to go back to what we're talking about before, had this felt in nineteen seventy one, the fact that Gene Hackman was uncomfortable with it. Yeah, and he I think those shooting is on the first day and he wasn't that he wasn't really committing to it.
And I think part of it was his discomfort with, you know, bailing up this African African American kid, but also he thought that him and Scheider hadn't kind of gotten too their kind of natural rhythm of you know, of the good back up kind of role. And and he ends up quitting on the on the second day and and freaking was was kind of harshly we'll try to make him kind of angry to kind of you know, stir him up. We've spoken about this on on this
podcast before. This idea that directors will and hopefully it's an outdated method, the idea that you need to get under the skin or to agitate your actor. If you hire the right person, surely you don't need to do those kinds. I think Kubrick was famous for it, and then Shelley Deval and the shining Yeah, it is famous or infamous. So and then they he came back, his manager committing you to come back, and he eventually you know,
got into the role. And and then they went back on the last day, I think, and shot this role, shot this scene again, and it was you know what we see on the on the screen now.
Yeah, manipulating actors.
There's something kind of you know, it's bullying in many ways, and you've seen it with that that that.
Kubrick story is awful.
There's the that awful story about Dustin Hoffman really slapping Meryl Streep and Kramer versus Kramer like and you know she wasn't expecting. On the plot side, Edward Norton punching Brad Pitt in the year after Fincher told him to do it. So then you get that reaction of ah, my ear like that reaction, but you know that feels
that feels different. You're you're making a movie called Fight Club with David Fincher, guess what he's probably going to do at some point, But these other films, it's like, you know, acting is pretendsies just just you know, like I'm not downplaying it. It's a it's a wonderful skill, but it is pretensis. And I don't know if you have to psychologically damage someone to get a performance.
I just think it comes down to when you when you hire your actor, hire the actor that you know can get to that point that you need that you need them to be.
Yeah, you know it's amazing that he wanted to quit because he wins Best Actor in nineteen seventy one for this performance.
Yeah, it's one of a couple of a couple of Oscars. There's talk that there's a lot of improvis going on. There's been quite a bit of debate because a screenwriter kind of said and who won for Best Screenplay and has kind of said, no, there wasn't as much as
you think. I do get a little bit. I don't know uneasy when actors overstate the amount of improv that was done, because I think sometimes there's sometimes I think they're referring to even the improv of their own performance of you know, like the way they might move your acting. There's improv in every acting performance because you are you know, not everything is on the page. The way you move, you know, the way you move your hands, you know,
the way you move you know throughout a scene. I think when you talk about improv I think people just go to dialogue, and I think it's it is more than that.
And I feel for screenwriters.
The first time I really felt uncomfortable with hearing Vince Vaughan talking about how much they improvised in wedding Crashes with Owen Wilson, and I just kind of thought, you know, there's somebody who wrote that, and I reckon, they probably wrote ninety percent of what we see, and you have improvised. And I always think, and I quite like Vince Vaughn, but I think it's very visible when Vince Vaughan is improvising, Yeah, because it feels like, oh, that's a bit they could
have shortened. Yeah, that's a bit, that's a bit that's a bit self indulgent. Yeah, And yeah, I just get a little bit uneasy when when actors talk about how much they were improvising.
No, I totally agree, and I think it's there's been kind of a movement that is not dissimilar to maybe I don't know, it's hard. I don't know anything about time anymore since Lockdown. It's till twenty twenty one, isn't it. But I feel like about twelve fifteen years ago there were was a movement in the Australian comedy scene where
it was like, ugh, he's doing a routine. He's prepared, and it was you know, no, I just improvised my material, and it's like, well, I can tell like there's improvisation in the material that you're prepared, because every performance is different and every audience has a different reaction to different parts, so you're even if it is a pre prepared routine, you are still improvising within it because sometimes you'll also find new jokes, so you're always doing that and getting
back to your Vince Fawn point. Often you could tell the comedians who were getting up, who were going, I'm not going to do a routine. I'm just going to take seven displit words I've never put in a sentence before and keep going until I find it out and you sit there and go, fuck, that could have been trimmed.
I completely agree.
To get back to your point, You've almost set it up as a theme for this episode, which I love is the ambiguity of this and I do love that we don't we don't really know anything about their past. We don't know how long these two I've only seen it, you know, last night, so maybe I've missed it. But we don't know how long these guys have ever been partners for, you know, are there We assume there's no there's no partners involved, no wives, popeyes, you know, he's
you know, he's got a few little ladies. He sleeps within the film, so we suspect there's no wife or a significant other, and we don't see anything from Shardest. But and I like that this is a movie about two corps trying to bring down a drug ring. There's the stuff we don't need. We don't need to, you know, we don't need to know their emotional wounds, really like, even though sometimes that can be very important in the film, you know, but but understanding when it's needed and when
it's not. And I think it's it's not needed in this film, and it doesn't suffer for it.
Yeah, you feel like they I totally agree, And I feel like they've been together for a while. I think you kind of get that impression with the way.
They talk to each other.
I think you get that, and the way, as we discussed before about the way ship backs Popeye, we get little bits and pieces from the other cops. He's obviously had hunches where he's been right on the money, and it looks like he's had hunches where he has been way off. And he's also one of his hunters has led to the death of another cop at some point, and he seems.
To be either.
Just completely ignoring it or maybe that's why he's an alcoholic. Maybe part of his genius is that, you know, he can't control it, and he dampens it by you know, running himself into the ground. And part of what makes this movie so fascinating is, you know, you talked about that opening where you go, oh, this must be one of our main characters.
Up, mister Burgett. He's gone.
And then suddenly we're following these two cops and these two worlds intertwine by chance because they go to the club and then they look over and they see someone that you know, Popeye's brilliance genius.
It gets a hunch on that is correct.
That leads to something much bigger, and it's yeah, it's fascinating the way it kind of plays out that way.
Yeah, I do love that these two they're almost I guess, you know, I'm not sure if beat cops is the right word, but yeah, they're cops that aren't you suspect you know, if you've seen the other guys, they're not quite the other guys where they're being they're coping shit back at the station because but you know, they're not they're not receiving medals and they're not you know, but and they they run their own they run their own race in a way. But you're right, they've had some
failures and some tragedies and disasters. They're not the cops at the da is putting out in front of the the press and saying, you know, these are these are our finest.
Oh yeah, And I don't want to get to the ending just yet, but just to keep in mind when we do get there, I think the very final title card also informs us of their.
History, if that makes sense.
So okay, with the denouement, I think they kind of sets in stone the type of guys we've been watching for the whole movie.
Okay, we'll put that. We'll come back to a little placeholder there forward.
Anything from commercial radio.
Now he's some smash mouth. So hang right, Scheider, they've got him Cloudy. I think in this I think in the in one of the in the i mbd's referred to as Buddy Russo. So we've got we're his Cloudy. And from here on in so Cloudy goes back to Popeye's house or apartment, and it's I think deliver very much deliberately. It's it's almost like a prison set up.
It's quite a depressing place to live. And he's just ridden past that the girl on the bike, and you know, even and then these days twenty twenty one, I'm not sure what if like fifty years ago nine, it's everyone, but it's a bit like eh and thank god, thank god, in a way, he was the one chained up, handcuffed in that bed and the woman was safe in between, empowered, you know, in the other room.
Yeah.
Look, we don't spend a lot of time with her, so I'm not going to say that she wasn't empowered. But yes, thank goodness, he was the one with the handcuffs him to the bed. But just that whole setup. As soon as soon as the door opens and the pushbike has kind of leaned up against the door. It's a bummer, Like you already have an idea that this guy things aren't great for him, and then you get to his house and you go, oh, I underestimated.
How shitt he his life. Yes, and it feels like it's his fault as well, do you know what I mean?
Like you feel like his life is this way because of the way he conducts himself and he can't conduct himself any other way.
Yeah. And I like the fact that they're not they didn't whether this was a trope already or they just ignored it or it became a trip later on. But he's not. He's not a divorce divorcee who's you know, been left with nothing and this is what he's been left with.
Is like, no, this is this is all him or all he's doing.
Yeah. And also you know the fact that I imagine New York cops of that ELK weren't you know, this is probably not you know, they were making a lot of money, you know, so which you know, we led to a lot of the corruption. I also when I was watching this was thinking about the time it was made nineteen seventy one and surveillance being a reasonably like that technology. Those great scenes where they're listening in, you know,
I'm sure they were. They were wires beforehand. And the idea of bugging a place, I think it even comes up, well it comes from the Godfather, but the Godfather is after this. But I wonder how exciting that felt for audiences like to see, like how and I I've had more time on maybe you know, do a bit more research as far as films are kind of looked at surveillance, but I imagine it felt reasonably kind of schmick.
Yeah, and yeah, that would have felt ahead of the time. You know.
It's funny because now you know, to record this, I have to take the tape off my camera on my computer because that's.
Just what you do.
Like it is, you know, oh yeah, everything's listening to me. Oh hang on, let me just have a conversation about the French connection. Hang on, I'll just go on Instagram. Oh look, there's a site that was to send me the box set, Like how did that happen?
You know?
But the idea of them listening in, I feel like it would have been people who are super nerdy and up to date with surveillance techniques and people who are into conspiracy theories. The government's listening to you man, you know, it would have been that kind of thing, and here they are. Not only are they doing it, but geez it looks really boring.
Yeah, one of my favorite, one of my favorite scenes is and because we mentioned this, you mentioned the science, we can shut a bit a bit more about the later.
The lack of dialogue.
There's long stretches where there's no dialogue, but there's a I think there's a scene where it's I think the best dialogue perhaps in the film is when they're they're having the heroin measured or tested to see how pure it is, and there's some lovely dialogue that comes from the man doing it.
Let's have a listen. Plas stuff one eight zero.
Two hundred Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval to ten US Governments Certified two twenty Lunar trajectory Junk of the Month club Sirloin Steak to thirty created Poison, Absolute.
Dyna Mate Junk in a Month, club Sirloin Steak.
It's the one.
It's the one time.
Where somebody is allowed to have this kind of almost clean, patient kind of you know dialogue that's actually it's got a bit of swagger about it. Really like it's the rest of it's so real and so like, you know, in the moment, and heated that this is like quiet a moment. This guy is completely relaxed about it, you know, and is in his element.
Oh mate, he's a beat poet the way he's.
And you know, it is one of the things that I enjoy with watching specifically older movies as well, is thinking, oh, would you like to see this as.
A TV show?
Now?
I think this is perfect as a movie, but if they made this as a TV show, I'm giving that character an.
Arc because I want to keep.
Just testing junk all over town, just being really cool, and I don't really want to give him any come up and so, like, I know he's not a good dude, but I'm happy to keep following him. He's kind of amusing, I've got to say, one of the most refreshing aspects of this film, and he is a prime example of this.
He doesn't have cap teeth. He just has normal teeth.
There's a little crack there, you know, it's like just kind of have normal mouths, and people kind of you know, everyone looks like it's it's a sea of Caucasian men and they all look different and it's quite it's quite satisfying. Some are a bit pudgy, some are a bit round. You know, Roy Scheider's got this this rugged handsomeness that you just do not see in actors in any way anymore.
You know, Now actors are and this is not you know, having a go, but now they you know, they have chemical pills and they look after their faces and all that kind of stuff. That Roy Scheider looks like I just spent sixteen hours in the sun smoking, and I feel.
And Gene Hackman running is just like here's forty one when he made this and and yeah, I love that He's not Yeah he's not Vin Diesel, you know, chasing somebody down.
He's fucking struggling.
The only the only way they catch that kid at the start is because he falls over, you know. And when he jumps, he jumps the rail. At one point it looks like he came so close to not making that, not clearing that rail.
I reckon if he had not cleared it, I have a feeling that would have been in the movie because he would have just sing and they just would have they would have just left the realism of it, because you know, they left the realism of everything that happened with the car, so Geen Hackman face planting would have become a part of the story.
I would have loved to have seen that and the t about realism.
How's this for nineteen seventy seventies Hollywood filmmaking New Hollywood. That scene that we'd just listened to where they're measuring the hell and it was real heroin?
Oh you serious? It's a heroin? All right, we'll get some real because you know what the best part of that is. I guess they had to claim it on tax movie making product?
So did they?
I don't know? And I imagine, imagine not every time you see the heroin, it's it's it's real. But in that instance, when they measured it so that small amount where they may put whatever they put in there, and to do it all, they wanted to make it as real as possible. And yeah, real heroin.
So maybe that guy of a rat party, Yeah, started off really exciting, and then everyone just kind of sat around and listened to.
The let's talk about the train. You refer to it earlier on It is It's one of my favorite.
Scenes of the film it.
I think you said something like it has no right being that that intriguing it is so it is so beautiful, you know, choreographed and performed.
Oh and the fact that I think what's fascinating about it.
I don't know if you read it the same way, But at first I can't tell if the tale knows that he's being tailed.
So that's part of the intrigue. Is is he aware or is he not aware?
And is he kind of messing with Popeye or is he uncertain that Popeye is there and trying to trick him? And then there's just a point where you sit there and you go, nah, he knows, he knows, and he's messing with Popeye. And then you can see it dawn on Hackman's face where he's like, I think he's onto me, but now we're in this dance and I.
Have to stick with it.
And then he manages to trick him, and it's like all pretenses off. It's just Hackman throwing the hat on the ground. I'm just shaking his fist that this this cat and mouse game that became something completely different.
Well that guy just won.
Yeah, yeah, I read it exactly the same way, and it was. It was just fascinating, even when when I think the last time Hackling or Popeye gets off the train and you have the our French villain in the background and you know he's gone back on, but we know that Pope is still looking the wrong way and it's too late.
You go, no, look the other way, the other around, and why are you still playing the game of Oh yeah, I'm just casually stepping off for the fifteenth time, and I don't want you to know that I know.
And then that's how that's.
What I thought. I thought. I thought, surely at some point you're kind of like you got to make a little bit of eye contact and go, let's do this. Yeah, it's on. The cat has found the mouse.
It's so good.
But once again, just describing it, people would be thinking walking on and off a train, how is that compelling?
But it is amazing.
And we've seen we've seen you know, that scene since then, and I'm not sure you know if there's how many cops chasing bad guys on trains or not even cops necessarily, but you know how many scenes like that there were pre dates this one, But this, I know, this feels like it might have been one that has inspired many of those scenes we see where bad guys are being chased through trains, you know, and carriages or and vice versa.
Yeah, this feels like a really groundbreaking movie, like a ground zero for a lot of where these types of movies go in the future. And it's it's part of the fun of watching these films, isn't it. And suddenly, oh, I've seen that in you know, in the future down the road. There's been movies over gone. We're going to do our version of that scene. And this is where
this scene kind of came together. And once again I would say, you know, as I said to you up top, it it felt even though it takes its time, which feels weird to us because we're so used to so many cuts in films now, it also felt strangely, you know, quite modern in in the way it was shot and the way music was used and the sparsity of dialogue.
I thought it was extraordinary.
The more I think about it, Well, it's we mentioned it shot you know, documentary style. It was a gorilla style because it's it's they didn't get permits for anything. So so in that scene we in frequent is basically whether it's him pushing it the dop or at least the cameraman. I'm not sure the VP shot that particular scene or if he had cameraman you know, taking his place, but he was basically pushed in a wheelchair, filming in
a wheelchair. And there's a bit where Popo Million where gets on the plane where the camera starts, you know, almost it rises and it shakes a little bit. That's him literally getting off the wheelchair, yeah, and following it. But using all the natural They used all the natural light as far as sort of say light from you know, outside daylight. It's also lamps and whatever was they shot handheld a small unit and whatever light they.
Had they made use.
And if you look at the way that you know, that's why when the camera comes up to the train, you don't see any kind of reflection. Usually there might be a light even on the camera to help out.
There's none of that.
And even when they're at the kiosk, they're having their popeyes having his toffy apple and the Frenchman's having whatever he's having. You know, it's it's it looks beautiful like it looks. It looks it looks great, and and it's still using the lighting that's and it was the d I p Owen Owen Roseman's first first film, like first first feature film. So he goes on to make the exos two years later with with Freaking Again and and like I mentioned earlier, the TOTSI Network and he's a legend.
But just yeah, that that that sequence was just that's that's where I've really decided this is this is this is great, this is this is great, this is a masterpiece. And the way that they just kind of take their time with that. I had a suspicion somewhere in the movie, maybe the first third. I kind of knew that the car chase didn't have any permits, but it kind of hit in the back of my head. I wonder if they really had any.
Permits for anything, And for a few scenes in public and I had to stop myself from doing this, but I started looking at some of the other people in the shots and you can tell that it's there's no permits because there's people going, oh, you know, kind of was that a cameraman or is actually happened?
You know that parts kind of thing.
So so I had to stop myself for looking for that because it popped into my head, had a little look noticed it.
Went, don't watch the film, don't be watching that bit there.
Yeah, that's that's for your second view. And but that's that when I when I, when I hear you films where they haven't got hermits and they're not extras, they're real people, I always think, yeah, okay, but how they're not looking to the camera, Because if you're walking down the stairs and there's a camera there, your eyes drawn
to the camera. I mean, yeah, you only have to watch any news reporter doing a broadcast from outside of a state of origin match to realize that, you know, you know, that must be a flame when there's there's a camera involved.
I reckon on the street.
Though for the most part, it takes you a bit by surprise, and I think the majority of people, your gut instinct is I don't want to be in this, right, you know, I don't know what this is like at the state of origin or something like that. You're there, you know, for sport, and you kind of will instinctively put two and two together, which is they must be
reporting on the sport. I'm into sport, I'm on the camera, but I reckon on the street when you're just trying to go and you've got forty five minutes for lunch and you just want to get yourself a non bloody forget, and you see a camera you think, oh god, I don't need to be a part of this.
And you quickly cross the road.
Yeah yeah, yeah, probably right. The pace certainly picks up around this at this point. You get the train and then you've got the assassination attempt on Popeye. I thought when I when I scene started and there's the baby in the pram and then the mung gets shot.
Yeah, and I was I was waiting for almost the you know, one of my favorite movies.
The Untouchable, is that they're great scene with the pram in the in the central station and and it's just such a brilliant Elliott ness, you know, and Andy Garcia.
Save Yeah. Yeah, it's brilliant, and we'll definitely do that movie at one point.
But I was expecting, you know, yeah, go save the baby pop Eye, like, but again, I'm fine with the idea that they they didn't. It's like that is often what we see where you give, you know, a character who may be perceived as unlikable.
Here a heroic moment the show.
No, even though he you know, he's racist and he does these things, let's show him, you know, he's moral code, maybe shining through a little bit or rising to the top because he's you know, he's going to save that baby and they say that woman and you know, get her of safety. And then but as none of that, he hides me on a tree. Yeah, and.
You know, it feels like it would have been out of character to have that, Like that's not this movie, isn't it. Like if he's suddenly crouching over the woman and dragging her to safety and running out to get the baby, you're suddenly thinking is this Popeye or is this maybe this is what Gene Hackman would do. But Popeye just you know, he wants to whoever's shooting at him, he's going to get him. And it's and once again that's another thing that plays into the ending as well.
You know, we've already seen when we get to the end and how that plays out. We've already seen what happens when he gets shot at with an innocent bystander being shot. He is single minded and this is probably what works for him as a cop, and also what works against him.
Absolutely, I think the guy who is sent to kill him, he says, basically, I'll take care of this in a pretty cocky way. Really fucked this up. Like like if you if you're gonna say in your French, you know, in your cocky French, you know with certain amount of assurance, you know, I'll take care of this. Have a better plan, mate, Like, surely there's a better way of going up on a rooftop and try to take him out from there. I mean, you know, I've seen I've seen hits in movies before,
and there's better. There's been better plans than this. He shut the bed on this one.
Well, I think he probably overthought it because he was a cop, so we thought I'd better do this from a distance. But I have a feeling that there would have been there would have been a lot of cops coming after him, but there would have been also a lot of cops that went, oh, thank goodness, because that guy is a pain in the ass and now I don't have to deal with him anymore.
So he probably overthought how to do it.
Also, like you know, like you just walked up to someone in Massailles, you know, maybe maybe it was home called advantage in Massai, and then away from home, you just don't do things like the normal way that you would do it. That's that's how the conversation would have gone if he'd gotten back to his boss.
Why did you do that? You always just walk up to them and shoot them. Sorry, I'm just I'm not in my own.
Bed, you know, you didn't. Never forget. And then and then we're led so basically that there's a chase, and it leads to this amazing car chase, which you alluded to before. No permits are given, so assistant directors helped out,
but also local police helped out. Basically off duty police officers helped out to kind of keep it reasonably safe for about five blocks and then they're on there, so they shut they kept shooting outside those five blocks, and that's when they were like they didn't have as much protection. Weam frequent has said that is kind of amazed it was done without anybody getting hurt or killed, which is you know, concerning and obviously wouldn't happen anymore. But it's
a stunning chase. It's basically there's a camera on the front of the of the of the car that they rigged up. There's one at the back of Popeye for Popeye's point of view, and then there's one looking back at Popeye. So it just looks you know, you're right there, you feel, you feel really fucking close to it, you feel in it.
Oh yeah, it feels real, and because even the little accidents that happen in it are weighted in reality. Like you know, when you see you know, I've seen some great car chases and movies, but often when you know someone gets hit or whatever, there is a moment where you just this little part of your brain that thing they're not walking out of that, how are they walking out of that? That is they have been wiped out. I'm pretty certain a seat belt wouldn't have made that
much difference. Always wear a seat belt, kids, But I don't think in that hit in particular, they're getting out
of it and now able to run after someone. But every accident in this there's so many near misses, and the accidents that do happen are you know, just kind of scraping alongside another car or just you know, it feels real, which then adds to the esthetic, which makes you just feel so anxious as well, especially because we know that the train isn't going to stop, so you think, oh, no, he needs to keep driving, Like I was hoping he was going to get to the next station and get out,
but he's trying to keep an eye up and it's amazing, Like it's one of the what top three car chases in any movie. It's that Bullet, the chasing Bullet's still my favorite.
Yeah, well, bullet Bullet was in inspiration for this.
In fact, we frequent said that he wanted to you know, that was that that was the blueprint and he wanted to try to outdo that.
But let's see a bullet the French connection Blues.
Brothers, you know, And I mean, it's one thing they have a great car chase, but sometimes it's it's it's also what else is going on and the fact that this is happening underneath the train line. You know, when he's looking up and you can kind of see the train and like you said, we know that you know it's not stopping at the next one is so it's it's it's it's so good.
Story going on on the train as well, so you know exactly the car chase, it's this guy that he's chasing people suddenly realizing this dude is not right and him going to the front of the train. The poor conductor ends up having a heart attack of some sort. Like there's just so much going on up there. And then when you cut back to then it's the thrilling visceral card Chase, and there's a lot happening in in that that overall scene.
And that train conductor is a real train conductor. They could they weren't allowed to have anybody else. Actually, they couldn't have an actor because he was actually had to stop the train, you know, at some point. So so he was actually real, a real, a real train conductor. And the guy who gets shot also it was a real I'm not sure what they call that role, but he was. He was like he belonged to the Actors Guild and so he got that that that part good
on him. And then they and then we get to the point where they get the car and they take it apart, and it's it's it's so it's so good, like they are really they are really taking that car apart.
I mean it's you know, even the lead up to it of them on the stakeout and watching the car that goes around the block three times, and eventually when they start, that car stops and starts breaking into it, and then all the cops descend. And I don't know about you, but I was sitting there going, I reckon, these are just punks who have seen a car and they're just coming back two more times to check it out before they steal it. And then it turns out
that the cops have made a terrible mistake. They've jumped the wrong people. So I think that adds to the anxiety you feel when they're pulling it apart, because it's like, are you sure, Like I've already seen you make a mistake, and now you're pulling this car apart, and you're desperate to find these drugs and you are pulling everything apart, and it's quite like. I'm not like, I don't have a car, I've never driven a car. I'm not mechanically
minded or anything. But I found it mesmerizing watching them just pulling it apart bit by bit.
So did I I completely agree.
And as much as they take it apart, boy, they put it back together nicely, don't they. I Mean, they come for the car and we suspect that they're not going to get the car because the car's fucking total. It's been it's been literally pulled apart. They found the drugs in there eventually, and I was at the point where I was like, well, I can't imagine where the drugs would be now, so it's a dead end.
But they do find them.
And then when they're told that your car is ready, I was kind of half expecting. Then they're kind of like they're playing a bit of a joke on them, like, yeah, your car's ready, and here it is and it's completely it's totaled, and it's like, well, you're arrested or you know, whatever it might be. But no, it's like that the car is usually pulled back together. They're done a sterling job.
I was gobsmacked. I thought exactly the same thing.
I honestly thought it was going to end with them saying, eh, like what have you done to our car? It's like you're nicked. But instead it comes out brand new, and I was like, holy shit, Like how did wow? Those guys really deserve my respect. They've done a great.
Job, which again these days, you would go, well, hang on that they haven't. That's going to take longer. That's going to take a week to surely do that, you know, And you know, I don't know if there's any panel beaters listening Yasney podcasts at gmail dot com, let us know how long it would take to put that car back together. But I'm assuming it's not twenty minutes or whatever it might. It might have been an hour or something.
Who knows how long they've been pulling it apart before the guys come in, But we do know that once those guys get there, they've been there four hours. So depending on like you know, are we are, we meant to be thinking that they're still pulling it apart while they're there, or maybe we're seeing them pulling it apart and then they come in and that's actually when they've started putting it back together.
Yeah, for some reason, my mind was telling me and I might be wrong, but they were still pulling it apart while though they were in the office, So.
I might be wrong.
But it's a remarkable, a remarkable effort. But again, as surprise you, but it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't impact anything like you know, I think now it will be like, oh, come on, it's it's but I think, you know, I think you set up your own culture in a film, and this is you know, if you're not worried about too much backstory, you know, for hearing, you know, and then you know, you forgive films because they've set up these are the rules. This is the universe that we're
living in, and this happened to deal with it. So we are moving on with it. We are moving on, whether you're with or you're not.
So is it is it possibly just another car that looks like that that they've put the price back on the front because there was a car in the Pound, But I don't know if that's true either, because cars back then there's there seem to be lots of cars that look very different as opposed to now where you'd say oh yeah.
They just yeah, yeah they got they got a Kia in there, they.
Suzuki Swift.
It seemed to me that was a reasoning unique car, and if not totally unique, it was maybe more European.
Yeah no, they put it back together for sure.
Yeah, I reckon we're supposed to believe that that that they've put it back together. There's a great they go across the bridge they're waiting for them. There's a great wave, which is an image I've seen and he's often the image used when, you know, if you're reading an article on the French connection, often it's that close up of Popeye waving back to our to our villains. And and then we're at the warehouse, and this is basically the end of the film, and it's quite extraordinary. They go
in chasing the bad guys. They take one or two out, but there's the main bad guy who's he's still in there, and he well, we should we shoot the other cop, which is and you know, he shoot shooting him dead. What's interesting about this is that guy uh based on a real cop. He's in the cinema watching.
He sees himself get.
Killed on screen. He stands up and yelled bullshit and then sues for ten million dollars and then settles out of court for for ten thousand or something like that. But it's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing, and apparently that has decided in the moment they kind of like do that. They're going, wouldn't it be good to shoot that guy because he's been pain in the ass, So hey, let's shoot.
Him let's take him out.
Wow, So give the guy that happens. Yeah, if you've got to invite him to the premiere, at least let him know, yeah.
Or even give him a wait till you get to the end, mate, because you don't. Absolutely you miss out in the last three minutes. But I feel like that is that's one of those things where in hindsight, we we really get an idea of what kind of character Popeye is that.
You know, it's the baby.
It's thought, there's the woman with the baby being murdered, and he just keeps going and he has he's obviously calls the death of a cop before, and then this is the guy that's been pointing that out and been riding his ass because of what he's done in the past, which we don't know. Maybe this guy riding him is completely deserved. But he does not bat an eyelid. He just you know, he threeloads his gun.
And yeah, yeah, yeah you can if you look for it, you can you can probably read into it a bit of like a Okay, that's something I might have to deal with that, but I'm not going to deal with it now. But it's it's quite extraordinary and you touched on it earlier with the baby in the pram. It's
not this character. Yeah, other characters would would maybe if they made French connection in twenty twenty one, he would have a pop up would have a different reaction that in that moment, or maybe he wouldn't be dead, but he'd just be shot in the shoulder or something and say, oh sorry, buddy, and then he goes up to chase the villain. What did and what did you make of the soprano like ending of Popeye disappearing into it a back room in this warehouse and a single bullet shot being.
So just briefly before I get to that, it makes sense that he shoots that cop as well, because he nearly shoots Roy Scheider, like he nearly takes out his mate when he comes in as well.
So he is he's ready to shoot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all done.
I loved the ending, that the ambiguity of the ending of him going off into that room. And then you just start getting these place cards, and the place cards telling you, like, the whole operation is not one hundred percent of success. It's a mild success, but it's not enough of a success because what we learn in the very final the final panel of these guys get reassigned like they have quite clearly been on the edge before
this movie ever started. They have been just keeping their jobs, just getting enough done, and then when they don't completely and utterly nail.
This case, that's it. They're done.
And there's a part of me so I so I know there's a sequel, and I have no interest in the sequel because I love this ending so much and there's a you know how they say, we don't know if this frenchman got away, but did Popeye shoot him and like dump him in a river or something like that?
You know is or did he get away? Like the not knowing is what makes it fascinating to me.
The sequel and I haven't seen it.
It kind of it kind of it kind of ruins this ending for me a little bit, you know, because I because I know, and maybe I should have read at least a little bit of what the sequel's about, but I know that that he got away, like because a sequel is is Popeye for some reason, with that Cloudy going to France besides searching for our villain whose name is Elaine Shanier and that's what the sequel is about. So what happened then? Somebody just fired off a shot
that didn't land? And is that? Is that good enough? And like, I assume they're not doing this for a sequel, for a sequel to exist, I assume that they're not. This they wouldn't have known. This is when William Freakan's first films. They wouldn't have known. This is also very early Gene Hackman, and very early Gene having his first
big film, as was Roy Scheider. So it's not like these are stars and with the star director, with you know, all this faith in this project, it's going to be a franchise like this is this was a you know, Hail Mary, and and so they're not. I don't think they're setting up a sequel. So I knowing that the sequel that doesn't exist, I love the ending, But because the sequel exists, I'll be like, well, I don't know, like and that's more enhandsight because in the moment I
enjoyed it. Im I was a bit confused though, and I because I didn't love what I would have liked. I would have liked a gunshot and maybe cut to black for a few seconds and then the place cards because I literally thought there was something wrong with my my I was.
Streaming it on Disney.
And the Disney app.
It's in the Pixar section. Surprisingly it is. It is on the Disney app if you're looking for it. And I was like, Oh, what's what's going on? Because it's just a freeze of the close up of one of the actors. And then and then the title card comes the words come up. I was, ah, that's the that's the ending. Because I was fully ready, okay, now it's the chase moment, and I'm okay not to have that moment,
but I was. I just would have loved a little space of me of allowing me to kind of comprehend, shit, did pop I just get shot or did instead of like having all this information about what happened to some of the other characters. You know, there's a few seconds of me having that in my head of like, what the fuck just happened.
It's funny. It's even the start of the film.
It's a little bit like the film started and oh it's ended, and it's it's like Friedkin just comes in hard while the story's already got a bit of momentum and finishes it where he desires he's going to finish it. I wish I hadn't looked up what the sequel was about either. I reckon, you're completely right, because I like, there's four years difference between the person and the second, and you know, there weren't really you know, you had bond,
but there weren't really those types of movie franchises. Like I think it was a pretty big deal when Godfather Part two was that's right, so and it didn't do like I think it did all right, but it didn't do as well. And I think the thing I read was Hackman saying, you know, four years difference is too much. But also I just like I really loved the film and I just didn't have any urge to see Popeye again.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
And there was also a TV series in eighty four with Ed O'Neil TV's Ted Bundy and also obviously j for Modern Family as Popeye himself. Before we go, here is some fun facts. I've weaved some of these fun facts throughout the episode, but here is someone didn't get to the straw hat that he puts on the back dash of the car is taken from that's a sign apparently in New York at the time when undercover agents were on duty, so be assigned to other police offices.
So if that was a case, a lot of police officers would think my parents were off police police officers somewhere.
He's not meant to they see the straw hat. He's on the job. No worries in getting some cake and coffee.
Apparently one of the coldest New York winters on record at the time of shooting was it was particularly it was bloody freezing, so or the movie it does.
You feel it, don't you?
Yeah? And they they cut to eat it in the grass. That were advisors we mentioned, and they also went on to become they almost quit their jobs and when on become technical advisors in various Hollywood.
Films and even appearing in some films.
I think one of them that maybe had a small, very small role in The Godfather and un least advised on some of that as well. So and also that the car chase they cut, they when they were cutting it in the editor room, they cut it to a song by Santana. Oh yes, black Magic Woman. Yeah, yeah, it was a song I'm not familiar with.
I wonder if that's been used in another movie. I do know that song. I feel like maybe it's.
I don't know why, but as soon as I'd heard about that, I suddenly thought of Carlito's Way. That might be incorrect, but it feels like something musically from that world.
Apparently if you play that to the to the Car Chase, very enjoyable experience.
I'm told I am going to give that a crack.
Actually, I am going to find that and I'm going to give that a go because that sounds fascinating because it does have a rhythm to it as well, like Jase has a very specific feel and rhythm as to how it plays out, and it's just going to be like the gritty version of Pink Floyd a Wizard of Oz.
There's also I think.
What was the Space odysse see we did that recently with Tony Armstrong, and there's it was that Pink Floyd again or was it another pink Floid song when they go through that star Stargate there's a particular pink Floid. So I imagine if you smoke the ride drugs and listen to Pink Floyd and put onto any movie, it'll you know, it'll it'll work. It's magic somehow on Golden Pond.
With Henry Fonder and Catherine Herbert side of the movie. Yep, this is a little mating.
Mate. Always a pleasure to hang out and it's good to talk movies in microphones with you again after all these years.
I know this podcast comes with homework. I really appreciate it.
I did mention it in the intro your podcast, The Big Squid, which covers a lot of really deep diving pop cultural stuff, and I do like stuff on The Watchmen and the whole heap of stuff. So yeah, congratulations on that leads it's going gangbusters.
Oh yeah, thank you.
Yeah, it's TV, movies, books, graphic novels, music, whatever people are into.
You know, we like to celebrate it. And it doesn't mean it.
We don't have criticism sometimes, but we try to come at criticisms from a place of love rather than just you know, shitting on things. Unless it's the movie Shape of Water, then we're happy to.
I will defend the Shape. I'll watch the Shape of Water Rester because Hughsey was going to do the Shape of Water and then and then like I got home one night, the night before we were recording and and like eleven thirty at night and he gets it.
He leaves me a messag saying, ah.
I couldn't download the Shape of Water, can we do? I've done Pretty in Pink instead, So okay, you've done that, have you? Okay, I'm gonna watch Pretty in Pink now, but Shape we can talk about the shapewater another time. But mate, thanks so much. You're a bloody legend. You're a hell of a human being. And we'll speak again soon. Yeah.
That's great. Great to see your peak.
There.
It is a little bit of Santana. Try playing that to the car chase in the French Connection Black Magic Woman. Yeah, I can't wait to sync all that up. Let us know if you do that. Yasney podcast at gmail dot com. Justin Hamill and one of my great mates. Known him for a couple of decades now and is probably my favorite person the chat movies with. Check out his podcast, Big Squid and I rose a regular on it as well as many others, so check it out. They do
live shows. It's really flying for him and I'm absolutely stoked. Very talented, passionate man, good man. Love him all right. Yeah, if you want to contact me Yasney Podcasts at Gmail. That's where yeah you go to. You can also get on the iTunes and give us a rating. Five stars is recommended, but you know, you can do whatever you like, but five stars.
Would be great.
Also write a little review. There has actually been a couple of reviews written, and I might actually read one out. This one's from Vicky the dog Walker. This was left us the other day. I love your podcast and I recommended to heaps of friends. Thank you. I just listened to Dina Ewan's review and Bill and Ted, which I especially loved. We love Diana and Ewen. I remember when this movie came out and all my friends quoted lines from it. Such a great feel good movie. I've just watched Always Be.
My Maybe.
After hearing Diana's review and loved this as well. Another great movie. I can share it with all my girlfriends. Keep doing a great job, Pete. It makes my dog walking breeze.
Well.
I am glad you're enjoying a Vicky. We also have one from Rah Rah another five star review. Thank you, Rarah. Wednesday Morning cannot come soon enough. My favorite podcast by far, A lighthearted, funny and entertaining discussion between the lovely comedian movie buff Peter Helly, thank you very much, and a different guest each week who have a chat about a different but loved movie the guest hasn't seen until now. So interesting to hear different takes and views on movies.
But I also love to hear each guests three favorite movies, which shows just how different movie tastes can be. But I believe this question really tells a lot about a person. I completely agree, ra Rah. You point out that your three top three movie changes fortnightly. This podcast has truly reinvigorated my love of movies and I'm so glad I have something to listen to during our many lockdowns in Melbourne. And then I also get great recommendations for a movie
to watch. A fantastic podcast. Thank you so much, Rara. I do appreciate it. Yeah, so leave reviews on iTunes. Also email us at Jesney podcast dot com dot au. Castaway Studios is where we are recording and if you want to start a podcast, Derek Myers is the man you need to chat to at Castaway Studios dot com. We have a big show next week. We are going to stay in the seventies. We're going to move four years an Olympic trimester forward to nineteen seventy five for
another classic film. We have Al Pacino's Sidney Lament John Gizzal Dog Day Afternoon.
It's a brilliant film.
Check it out if you haven't got the chance, and we'll be discussing that with comedian broadcaster cartoonists Scott dules Duly. He's a great mate. I'm really looking forward to it. Loves lapping up pop culture, all things TV and film. He does, so he'll have plenty to say about Dog Day Afternoon. Really check it out. I really loved revisiting this one. It's a great episode. Hope you enjoy it. If you're in lockdown, I hope you are just keeping
as happy and healthy as you possibly can. Reach out to your mates, your family and stay connected till next week. We'll see them for Dog Day Afternoon with Scott Dooley, and so we leave old Pete save Fan Souf and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night.