Em Rusciano And Raging Bull

A good I just wanted to point out quite quickly that this episode was recorded in isolation, not in our regular studio, and also that we are discussing the movie Raging Bull. It's a classic film, but it's also quite confronting and does feature some salted language and the scenes about domestic violence. So we will be covering and chatting about domestic violence in some areas of this episode. So if you're sensitive to that, perhaps let's get to the next episode.

If not, enjoy it.

Hey, I'm Peter Hallier and welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet the podcast that talks the movie lovers about classic and beloved movies they haven't.

Quite got around to watching until now. And today's guest m Russiano.

I will have my vengers in this life for the next.

They may take off.

So.

Life is like a box of Chocolate's.

Right nothing.

Emma Masciano first burst onto our screens in Australian Idol finishing ninth quite a few years ago and since has gone on to huge things. Em is a self made comedy phenomenon. She's a comedian, singer, writer, radio presenter and podcaster.

She speaks her mind.

She's completely honest about everything she experiences, all the ups and the downs. She's always fascinating the catch with she's fierce, she's funny, and she's.

Fabulous, and it's a joy to have her chatting on. You ain't seen nothing yet today.

Hi, this is m Rossiano and three of my favorite films, Muriel's Wedding, You bring us down, Muriel, You're embarrass us, the never ending Story.

Never give Up and good luck will find you.

And the Royal Tenant Boums.

I love you more than anything.

And I have never seen surprisingly enough being a raging Italian raging bull.

There's a lot of bad things showing, maybe just coming back to me.

It's rated amongst critics is the best film of the nineteen eighties.

One of the greatest films of all time.

Raging Bull is Martin Scorsese's Powder Keg of a masterpiece, starring, of course.

Robert de Niro. M Rossiano, welcome to you see nothing yet.

Thanks for having me. I minded to be here.

I'm so excited. I feel like I was at the birth and the inception of you thinking about doing this, and I bullied you and other Feelm'm so glad you've done a podcast.

It was mad you didn't have one.

It has been something this one has been kind of bubbling away for a few years, but this I got serious about it, like this year, and I was like, okay, and I started telling people about I think that's the That's the key when you start mentioning it to people, sounding it out, giving the sounding balls on it you and you were very supportive.

You love the idea, and now we are here and you have chosen.

I was so excited at first you, I think chose Good Fellows And I'm not sure it was the running time that kind of swayed you over the Raging Bull or not.

But two incredible films, yes.

And.

We'll get to Raging Bull soon. So I want to discuss your three favorite films. But just a quick tease.

What were you? What were you? How are you feeling about Raging Book?

I felt initially watching it.

It was It's very Italian and so a lot of it was quite comforting to me, and I felt a lot of nostalgia watching the scenes around the table and the yelling.

You know.

At one point, Joe Peshi's character says to his son, I'll stab your hand in the not with a knife if you don't stop touching your plate.

And for me, that's a normal thing. And then I kind of left the film.

Look, it's pretty grim, and I didn't really understand it was good, But I'm like, why is it considered his magnum opus. Why does everyone say this was Scot Sasey's turning point. So I went and researched the behind the scenes stuff, the story, and I have such respect for the film and its process, and the film makes better sense to me now I know what they were trying to achieved. They weren't trying to make a boxing movie.

I respect it and understand why it won so many awards.

Absolutely, And so we'll get back to a bit.

One of the points I was going to make, and I'm sure you were going to make I was really sure you were going to make it anyway, But This is considered the greatest boxing movie of all time, but that is under selling and under what this movie is actually about. I think you wrap it up really well there, and we'll get back to all that stuff, because it's really it's so much meat to this film, both stylistically and the themes and the performances and the sound design.

Yeah, that film was life changing for me because I identified with Rhonda the best Friend character so much, and I just felt like, yeah, Rachel giveth, so someone like Rhonda could succeed onalian in life, then someone.

Like me could.

I don't know, I just I just really identified with her character and who she was and what she stood for and how passionate she was and how she went and everything, you know, even in a wheelchair with leather pants and gusto and I don't know, I just and the film was so camp and so quintessentially Australian and all the things I love.

So I don't know, I fell in love with at the.

Instant I saw it, and then I saw the musical adaptation the cap Miller Hikey Right, and it just made me love the film even more.

And it's one of those films that stands up.

I've showed it to my kids, terrified that you know it would, but it's really there's no weird, awkward sexist spits or you know, accidentally racist bits, you know some of them, some of the films like like Ghostbusters. My kids watching My Cello. My eldest daughter was like, that's just really sexist that whole film, Like, yeah, I know, I'm so sorry I forgot about that, but yeah, I know it's it's a great film, and it's just so quotable and I should.

Love everything abbas involved.

I don't know.

It's just such a great film.

It is. It is, I think.

And we had Steve carry on just guesting when Sampang had watched A Castle and he kind of made mention that the holy trinity of Australian comedy surely is Crocodile, Dundee, the Castle and a mirror's wedding open. You know that that I think that that seems to be the holy trinity. But it's so good and I remember watching and I

So it was such a great pairing.

Yeah, it was, And a lot of my friendship looked like that as well. I often am attracted to people who are well balanced, oftentimes religious too, and you know, or are very careful about how they go about life because I'm so reckless. So and I think they're attracted

So yeah, I don't know.

And the fact that the female friendship was at the forefront and it wasn't a love story in the end, it was it was It was a great love story between two women and I think those love stories need to be shown more. And I think it was really before it's time doing that. That the happy ending wasn't the fact that she was married with kids living in a nice house. The happy ending was that she had this great friendship renewed. And I think I was really attracted to that.

Also, Yeah, it was. It was so good and Bill Hunter is so funny.

Stand up CHARMI shirt Bill herslot you can't stop progress.

The recurring Dedrich Chambers and when he when he when his wife dies and at the funeral and then he leans over and sprooks and he got a telegram from Bob Hawk, the Prime Minister, you know, like is just there's kind of heartbreaking. And the performance by the mum is so good, like when she's just staring at the microwave and the tea bag is in the microwave and and she and and in the back of her feet, in the in the in the in the supermarket with the source at the back of her feet.

It's true, it's heartbreaking.

It really is.

It's just one of those moments where a comedy I mean, and it is essentially a comedy film, I guess, But when comedy allows itself to have some tragedy and true heartbreak, it's even more poignant. And I was so unprepared for how that that made me feel. And that character, for me is the one that makes me feel the most and so memorable, even though she's not really in the main ensemble. I mean she is, but not like Muriel

Did that so beautifully but so quietly.

It's one of the saddest films, one of the saddest scenes in any film I've ever seen.

It's the one that I've been like, oh my God, my stomach hurts.

It was just beautiful, and they had this melancholy as a backdrop. Is just you know, it's one of the perfect combinations I think of melancholy and joy.

Yeah, yeah, I think we can't have one without the other. Sometimes I think comedy films kind of missed that idea if they don't think they can have those rollercoaster moments.

But I think it makes it funny even more funny.

I'm always drawn to films where comedians are sad at some point in the film.

So yeah, it's just such a great film. My dogs are Buckingham. Sorry, it's real life.

It's real life.

It's part of the I could watch Dan Wiley avoiding knowing the lawns by kicking a fear around in the backyard, you know, every day of the week.

It's so great and never read story.

Oh look, I was the kid that is to get chased around at primary school for being weird. So when I first saw bastianrunning down the street with his you know, with his magical book, trying to hide because I was the smelly ethnic kid and I wasn't smelly. I just had like pastrami in my lunch box. But I used to get called stinky box Pete and that's not ideal for a girl, you know, in grade five because my my lunch box didn't have twisties and primas and vegmite sangers,

And so this is this is back in the day, and this is a shameful, but this is you know where I'm trying to place this moment. I know, when I went to school, you know, Psycher was still being referred to as wog.

Bad percent I was, Yeah, I was got called everything, smelly, wog daygo, I got called everything. And and I'm I don't I don't think I look particularly Italian.

I mean if you hear my name.

But in the eighties and the late eighties and nineties in where I was out in Diamond, if you didn't have an Anglo name and look exactly Anglo, then you were another.

And so yeah, it was pretty hectic.

So I was always drawn to films like Annie and never any story you know where the main protagonist is someone.

Who was picked on and triumphs.

So and I think a lot of my personality and resilience comes from, you know, deciding to side with the ethnic because my mum's Ossie. She was born in Bergen in country New South Wales, actually born in Bendigo, move to Bergen, and I decided very early on to side with the ethnic part of me because I felt so fiercely protective of it, so you know, those bullies at Dime, I did me a favor. But yeah, I'm never Ending stories just so magic and the way that he just

I pictures with him up on my wall.

I cut out from my smash Hits magazine and attacks the beautiful White Stallion, Like, I just love that movie so much and it still holds up to Never Ending two was rubbish, but I still watched it, you know, I still got on.

But as impossible.

Do you think it's It's a film that could do with you say, it stands up.

But I'm surprised maybe it hasn't been redone because because of what we can do with the technology and the act, you know, I mean, Peter Jackson would have a field day.

That's such a good idea. I can't.

You're right, But I mean they haven't remade The Labyrinth either, which is another one that I loved. They did remake The Dark Crystal, which was beautifully done on Netflix as a series, and I absolutely loved that. But yeah, you're right, they should remake Never Ending story. I mean, you know, I say that with trepidation, but I'm sure they do a good job.

I know, be careful what you be?

Careful what you wish for your third favorite film? Or oh yes, yes, I'm I'm a Where's say Alabash?

Where's lover?

Yeah? Me too.

That film just made me realize my family's normal, because we're like where we often get called the royal.

Tannem My family.

I don't know, I just loved how I love I'm obviously visually stunning. You know that classic aqua and orange, you know filter that goes across all his films and beautifully styled, and it could be a magazine cheot at any time. And just how open and dysfunctional yet close to the family were I don't know. I again, I was drawn to them as a family because it reminded me of mine.

So yeah, I just anything he makes.

I think he's really brave and I think he celebrates different, weird He's not afraid to kind of break the mold of what traditional.

Filmmaking should be.

And I think I think we're really lucky to have someone like him making films.

And yeah, I just one of those.

He's one of those filmmakers that you know, I don't need to know much about what the film is about before I see.

I just I know that I'm going to see.

And he's got one that he's made already, which is I'm not sure where that is as far as release dates now because of but it's a set in Europe again and it's it looks amazing and got almost double the cast that he usually has somehow.

Which is amazing, and his films get better.

I think, like I, I'm usually so excited about the new Wes Anderson film that I see it, my usual first instinct is I'm a little bit underwhelmed, and then I watch it, I go back to him again and I like it more. And then I keep watching it and I like it more, to the point where I watched Moon Rise Kingdom recently with with Oscar, my eleven year old, and I was like, this on, this one's one of its good It's a good film with his It's not maybe his best film, but it's you know, and I.

Just loved it. I was just like, what did I what did I miss out on? Last time?

Grant Budapesz had the same thing. But I thought one of my favorite films with his now and I and I love it more and more. The Life Aquatic is the same, like the Life of Quatic maybe my favorite film.

Like I know, but the he makes films that you have to watch more than once because there's so many little easter eggs in there to unpack, and you miss it. You do because you just trying to keep up and you can't take everything in. So once you've got the storyline clocked, you can go back and look for all the stylistic choices he made.

And yeah, I did the same thing. I just love it. I love him.

Yes, my favorite, my favorite, I think moment in the Royal Town of Bombs is Mick Wilson's meltdown on the tennis was a Wimbledon on the French Open us Obanel I'll forget d I.

Think, yeah, yeah.

Mister Gandhi leads forty to fifteen.

That's seventy two unforced errors for Richie tennant bound. He's playing the worst tennis of his life. What's he feeling right now? Text Hallward. I don't know, Jim.

There's obviously something wrong with him. It's taken off his shoes and one.

Of his socks and actually I think he's crying.

I think you're right. Who's he looking at in the friends box text?

That's his sister Margot and her new husband Raley Sinclair.

They were just married yesterday. Jim. Oh, yeah, I've not seen anything like this. Neither am I strange day out here in wind Swept Fields.

Well great Watcheth.

Wewenneth doesn't get enough credit. I just think brilliant in that film.

I like Gwen. She's redeemed in my mind. Have you you haven't watched have you watched a Politician yet? On Netflix?

No?

With Bette Midler and Judith light And and Gwnneth Poultry.

It's amazing.

But she's in that she's so good, but I think she's I think I'm probably essentially playing herself in the role ten of Moums, but still very good.

And Gina Jeene Hackman is so good. And apparently it was was him and Wes did not have a great working relationship, it seems, but it got the result.

And yeah, all right, so you've got a baseline of my taste. Weird, fantasy, dysfunction, colorful, so great, Let's watch Raging Ball.

You mentioned religion before, so are you ittained Catholic.

Well, nonpracticing. Yes.

My grandparents my no, no, no, was certainly very Catholic, had a magnet of Jesus on the dashboard of their Mazda. So Luigi, my grandfather, came to the country, brought a Mazda in nineteen whatever fifty something and kept it till like, I don't know, two thousand. It was this bench seated original Mazda. It was like, had Jesus ornaments on it and a wooly sea cover.

I always remember that.

Yeah, and they were super religious and my dad was not because my dad like sold marijuana and played in a band and really adopted to Australian culture, married a Nausi, which didn't go down well. But this film really reminded me of family dinners at their house. And the reason I love this film initially because straight away it starts and you're in the middle of it, and that's so fucking I tell you, we're not explaining anything catch up.

That was for me.

It starts, there's no backstory, you just bang your And I said to my husband, that is so Italian. That is just sorry. We're not we're not mucking around explaining ourselves. You just get on board or get off the train, which was great, But.

I love that in filmmaking. I think you need to be ahead of your audience all the time. And sometimes when you're developing an idea, whether it be a TV idea or a film idea, you'll have people in your ear about, oh, you need to you need to can't confuse the audience. But I like being a little bit confused when I'm watching a movie. I like kind of playing you know, it's basically a mystique. It's it's suspense, it's what's happening. I don't quite understand what's happening now.

No, I didn't for a bit.

The other funny thing was got My husband and I were sitting watching it and he became really uncomfortable and he's like, this is making me really like he was getting really and I think the explosiveness of the interactions was reminding him of our marriage, and because I am very I react in the moment without thinking about the consequences, and I'm really explosive and I'll yell at everyone and then I'm like, okay, guys, what are you having to dinner?

Like That's how my dad is.

We just like we go to one hundred and then it's out of our system and we're done, while everyone else around us is still shell shocked.

We're ready to move on.

So the idea of the idea of watching these guys just Joe Pesci plays his brother Joe who and this was Joe Peshi's first film role, and he's so he's probably the only likable character.

Let's stay from the offset. No one's likable.

There is no one in this film except I did find myself warming to Joe Peshi, the brother who just was trying to protect Jake from himself. That was that was his main role as his manager literally in business but also in life.

So I would say, I would say, Vicky is likable, is she?

Though? I think so that's his wife just resetting for the audience.

Yes, lovely, lovely, I think Vicky is really likable.

I think I mean, there's the ickiness of the fact that she's fifteen.

But let's talk about Vicky's entrance into the film, because initially at the start, there's another wife who gets in trouble for cooking his steak.

Herol done, gone over cooking, over cook it's not the features on purpose.

What are you doing? I just said, going over cooking. You're over cooking, and bring it over. Just take bring it over, bring it over. It's like a piece of charcoal. Bring it over here.

Want you stay?

Yeah?

Right now?

Stay?

Can't wait?

Done?

Can't we good?

Happy?

Happy?

That's all I not more.

By the stage yeah, and then and then she just disappears. So this is against Gorsese. Go and keep up. I'm not going to explain to you what happened to that one, because Scott and I kept sitting there.

We wasted a ridiculous amount of nervous energy waiting for the other wife to walk in on Hero.

And the blonde. She's going to get home to get me crazy.

She never comes back, and then we're like, okay, sure she's just gone now and he's got a new wife.

That was that was the first.

Yeah, when I think I thought, oh, maybe that wasn't his wife.

That was, you know, his living girlfriend and now he found somebody else's No, that was actually his wife.

Jake Lomonto I think was married. You know, I had seven marriages or something.

I believe that.

I absolutely believe that Jake Lamoto had seven marriages. And Italians don't have living girlfriends. They'll go to help you get married. You did not do that in not even when it was at nineteen forties when that was set new, not at all. But I love you can tell that two Italians were behind making this film, and Scorsese and Daneer grew up in rival areas of Lower East Side, you know, the Italian settlements, so they kind of knew each other, but they're in rival gangs, which I love.

Like it's just they're.

Not educated, but they're smart, but they just everything is this raw, primal reaction to everything.

You know, there's there's.

I was watching when I was watching it last night, and I watched it with all my kids, including my helven year old. I mean say go to bed. But we're going to talk about this film tomorrow. Yeah. I gave a very quick you're not treat women like this kind of you yes, and talk to me like this and the go to bed and this film needs to be discussed more tomorrow. Yeah, so we'll be having that

I've never seen house.

Well.

I was going to ask has that happened.

Yeah, we exclusively communicate by yelling out windows, Like I'll drive up my parents. My parents are in this big block out in Eltham South and I'll drive up the driving.

My daddy out the window. I left the garage jap before. You just got to go to toilet, Like that's how we communicate. My kids will come down the.

Drive oile, scream out the window, speak quiet you like the baby like it's we yell. Our family is known as the loudest family in the face of the planet.

But I didn't go to Italy for the first I went to Italy for the first time when I was thirty.

So for my whole life had been made to feel like I was this loud, over the top person that needed to just calm the fuck down, and.

I never understood.

And then I got to Italy and I got into Filamentino Airport and straight away the guys at the passport desk saw my name was Emilia Roshano, and they let me go to the local line, like they made my mum, who's clearly very eysy stand in the arrival in new arrivals line, I was. I was showing the red carpet treatment. And I got into Rome and into and we went to all the little back alley cafes, because if you're in Rome, you're not Italian, you're Roman.

They're very much considered themselves, you know, a different breed. And everyone's yelling and hey, hey going.

I was just like, fuck, I make sense here, this is why, this is why I am the way I am.

That they're just passionate, and then.

Everyone just means on and there's more yelling, and there's lots of nattella and small dogs and sparkly things, and so yeah, the yelling is so quintessentially Italian that it happens Pete and it's you know it's I finally thirty realized I wasn't a bad person.

I was just Italian.

And they probably complimented you on the way you smell in your.

Lu You smell rule, Yeah exactly, you're not have stinky box.

Your mom over there, what's going on?

Yeah?

She smell in god?

Yeah.

Oh no, when you when you sell when Italians, first of all, because they see my name, they're excited. Then they hear me speak Italian and they're upset because they can hear I'm not Italian. And then they check I'm not American. And when they find out that you're from Australia, Oh, it's like you said, Nannia, oh slaia cagoos give it gangaroo yes slalyah. I want to go like it's some far off mystical place. But don't ever say you're American in Italy. Oh my god, I don't ever ever admit

Yeah, play the can of the card.

So okay, so let's talk at about Let's just talk about Jake Lamona. So he mentioned earlier and it certainly was you know it was going to be the point that I was going to make it's the greatest boxing movie ever, but it's about so much more. It's about like, if you had somebody in your life who struggled to understand what toxic masculinity means, this would be the film you showed them, you know, if somebody couldn't get their

He hates himself, you know, he really does.

That's why that's why he's getting his brother to hit him at the start of the movie. You know, that's why he's headbating the wall and he's saying, I'm not an animal, I'm not that guy. But well, mate, you are that guy, to be honest, And you know, he starts, you know, he starts the film with Joe Peshk begging him to hit him, and he ends the film, you know, obviously asking him to give him a hug, you know, And that's his I guess that's his journey. But you know,

Yeah, Charlie.

You know he's still can't blaming his brother, you know, he's still blaming other people.

I think, yeah, yeah, Now, I think that the thing that all the qualities that made him such an amazing boxer are the qualities that destroyed his life.

And it was so interesting the juxtaposition.

I mean, this was a real man too, This was a biography, This is a bio and by all accounts and I looked up he was an incredible fighter, but he's and all the things in the ring. He's desperation, he's one mindedness, his feeling, his ability to come back when everyone thought he was down and out was legendary. And then all those kind of attributes ruined his life, his personal life, his extreme jealousy, and you know the

Why did I do this?

And I think that was that one moment in the film where I felt for him, like I didn't feel I didn't feel like animosity towards him, because I felt quite angry towards him a lot in the film. But I also also made me fairly uncomfortable because I did see parts of myself in that self sabotaging in the massa. He's such a massacres too, Like it's yeah, he's a

And there is that moment earlier where there's almost a look where you think the door might be a draft for maybe some change, when he when he says he loses the fight that of course he thinks he should have won, and he says, you know, maybe this I've done some bad things.

Maybe maybe it's all coming back on me.

So he's he's, it's he's he's talking obviously about karma and that maybe you think, well, maybe he can turn it around now, maybe that's that's like bold moment.

It's not at all at all.

It's not.

I mean, you know, as soon as I saw the leopard print boxing dressing gown, I was fucking in you know that, Yes, lepond Bread.

There are some and it's a beautiful looking film.

I mean that the the the DeNiro and Peski walking down that corridor with the I'm not sure if they're for Dora's or not, but there, I mean, there's oh, the stunning.

Shot styling of the nineteen fifties Italian immigrant gent and my grandfather wore the exact same clothes, the high waisted front fleet Chino with the belt, the white spencer tucked in, with the shirt done up beautifully always and then the jacket with that, and then the hat was the last thing to go before none would leave the house. And it's just it's just that those details are just so lovingly done. You can just tell that both of them.

Yeah, it was.

And the choice to make the film black and white, I think was a good one. And I read that Scorsas made that decision because they shot some super eight footage of DeNiro boxing and someone pointed out, oh the gloves back in the fifties when Myron and this is wrong, as Scorsase goes, I fuck, it will make it black and white.

Yeah, that's that's that's exactly right, and they The other thing that played into it was the fact that Rocky came out four years earlier, in nineteen seventy six, and it was such a massive Reilm. He wanted to avoid comparisons to Rocky, so he thought black and that kind of sold him, absolutely sold him on the idea.

But you're right, it was it was that discussion about what the color of the clothing.

But that opening scene is so good, and again it frames Jake la Mota as an animal. He's like, he looks like he's in a cage. And then you see when later on when he meets Vicky when he's introduced at VICKI not the swimming pool, but I think she's at school lo and behold and Joe Pesky brings him over and there there's like a cyclone fencing between them. There is, and it's kind of framed in the way that you're not really sure who's in the cage or who's offering whose freedom.

Yeah, I know, and I also I love the choice. Like you talk about the boxing scenes, they were so intricately edited and cart and scored, and then the scenes at home were so simple. I love that idea of you know, it's because he hates sport, he hates boxing.

He didn't.

He's like, I'm not making a fucking sports movie. Pissed off DeNiro. This was de Niro's baby. He's like, I've read this book and I'm not having I'm not having a go away, go away like I.

Took de Niro, he really stuck to it. And so Scorase is more a fan.

He's a fan of classics and like and he'd come off a really bad New York New York monstrosity with DeNiro and Laza Minelli where he tried to fuse his loves of kind of classic musical movie nerd stuff and then modern day and it just didn't work. So he's like, I'm not going to do a boxing movie as my follow up.

But he's still also a marriage collapsed and he nearly died in the drug over.

Yes, yeah.

Right, he was visited him in the hospital and Scott Sase is like, you're gonna mention that fucking boxing film again. It's now on ever Mighty, it's now or never, and and I think he just wore him down, like Scase has been told by the doctors, you have no blood plateleists left. Your brain's about to explode, Like this is you guys, stop doing courage.

You got the asthmatic medication. Everything's gone. And Denier is like, I'm going to get this is my chance, this is my moment talking about this time morning there a week. Oh god, I love that story so much, And.

So I mean he was ripped off. I think not getting the Oscar.

He lost the Ordinary People by Robert Redford, and I love Robert Ord but Ragibull is a fast, superior movie to Ordinary People. But Denero won the Best Acting Oscar and you mentioned the editing before it was won by filmer Shoemaker, great name, who's worked with Scorsese for over fifty years. And I did tax Actually I'm not sure she did taxt Drive. I think she kind of consulted on Taxi Driver. But pretty much since has worked and been nominated at eight times.

She even did the Irishman. Research.

Oh well, I did actually the Irishman.

God, yeah, she's actually done every Scorsese film.

Was not mad for the avatar of the part of Amongst Good Fellas, I think so. Yeah, the editing and the sound of sign like that, the use of sometimes silence and just like this, the sound, particularly in the boxing scenes of the sound the crowd noise rising and and and then.

It's like it was like an opera the way they did the sound. It was it was truly it was almost a musical with no music. The way he put it together, it was like an opera. It was incredible.

Yeah, and the use of animal noises as well, like sometimes you will hear like an animal growl, and then you've got Sugar Ray Robinson there before he knocks him out with the neros on the ropes and he looks, he looks almost in the Christ like pose. Which is very scarczy, and he's just heaving and this time the animal groans to the heaving of Sugar Ray Robinson's shoulders.

It's incredible, is.

That when he's saying, you never knocked me down, you never knocked me down.

Is that the same with the blood sponge and the very last fight.

I think I think that is, yes, yes, And.

He just constantly saying, to the beat of Sugar Ay breathing, you never knocked me down, You didn't knock me down. It's just amazing that even even in defeat the Italian, the fucking stubbornness, he's like, yeah, you're one, but I'm still standing barely.

Yeah, and even earlier in the film that the result doesn't go his way, which it should have been knocked down three times and he still didn't get the points. But his arms are in the air, he's celebrating, he's throwing his gloves out into the into the crowd. In his mind, he's one. Said, DeNiro was, as you mentioned, like he was the one. Yeah, he really pushed this in a took the script tore Scorzaz in his hospital bed.

But he I mean, he took four months off the game, weight.

I think this was the start of de Niro kind of the trans famous transformation of you know, he did it later on for I think Cape Fear, and he's done it, you know, many times. But it took four months off the game weight trained for a year with the real Jack Lamota.

Why did took four months off? Traveled Italy and Paris to put the weight on. So he put thirty kilos on in four months. Thirty kilos that's like Grand Danya on.

In four months.

So that is.

Massive, OK.

But I love that they had to stop down filming and he could have just done it at home.

Now, I gotta get to Italy. G gotta get it, you gotta do it, you getta fucking do it. I love that. I love that healthy.

And then when he got back a week into filming Scouse, I did the shot filming down again because De Nero's health was so bad. He couldn't breathe because he was had put on so much weight, and his voice.

He couldn't speak.

Because they had to obviously film it, you know, all the thin boxing scenes. That's also the editing, the sliding in and out of the weight loss and game. I'm always watching where are they at with the filming because at the end, to imagine this was the same actor in a year, he looks like so old and puffy and unwell, And it is incredible what Danio did to his body. I mean, was he one of the first actors to do that? Was that like the first time we saw that kind of mass transformation.

Possibly, I Brando may have done yeah, father or but I'm not even sure. I'm not completely sure about that. Brando famously like put shoe polish in his hair in the audition and put cotton buds in his mouth to kind of give him more of a jowy look. But I'm not sure if he necessarily gained we I think Marlon Brando just naturally ballooned out and maybe then blamed it then to the movie, the movie.

That's What's happened to Me in Isolation. I'm just getting ready for a movie.

That's It's What's happened to me. It's gotta be a big movie. We're coming up. Guys got to put on roughly eight kilos.

I was one of the ice expected to Damien Callum and when we know the comedian, very very fine writer.

And he.

Was talking one day and we came up with an idea we're going to do as a short film about a guy, a struggling actor who got the role of a lifetime but he was cast as this like this fat guy and he never saw him tough as fat, so he kind of so happy with the game in the role, but he's so kind of so slighted by the fact that he was viewed. He started like getting into shape losing. It's the reverse de Nero.

You should call it. That reversed in Hero.

I did love.

I really love the nero and Peski Joe pes together and I know it happens in Good Fellows. You go up and see that because there it's I mean, Joe is a power keg of a of a of a He's so volatile, and even more so in Good Fellows than even in this, but even in this you see it here his ability to you know, when he when he goes to the club and sees Vicky with Selvin, takes his you know, goes for mm A.

Yeah, Jackie Dare repeatedly it is very violent.

It's full on.

But that's the scene, which is my favorite sequence of the whole film is when and it's it's it's grim when they're at the house and so did you fat my wife?

Yes, I know.

That's it's so tense and pesky.

Joey the character is like he's what a ballsy too, because he's still like, you know, he's with one of the you know, the best boxes in the world at that stage, even though he is getting a bit out of shape, and he's still calling him a fat fuck you know, and he like, yeah, he's saying, go up and and maybe if you if you give your wife one, you know, your life will be better, and like he's standing up to him like one of.

The greatest lines, more fucking less eating you fat fuck?

Wow?

Yeah, anyway, champion of the world. But sure go for it mate.

Yeah, and there's this and they were improvising a lot of that stuff, so yeah, which is really incredible. And they've got this, they've got this almost Abbott and Costello style of like, you know, it's comedy, it's dark comedy,

Why don't you tell me about it?

Huh? I don't know. Are you talking about?

Why don't you?

Did you fuck my brother?

Off? Is your peg?

It's really tense. She escapes.

And then he leaves, and then she's is what I quite like because she's really ballsy, Like she goes after him.

She goes after him.

She could have, you know, the sensible thing to do would be like this, go somewhere, get out of the house and go somewhere.

But she goes after him.

And and then Jake la Motta goes to Joe's house, which is obviously just around the corner, and beats the shit out of his brother and then slaps or punches.

Vicky, and then.

She goes back to the house and she just which is again how ballsy? Sure if this what the guidelines would be recommending in that situation, but she does it and she packs, and she just quietly packs. She's got with dignity and strength and the only thing that you would love, and you just because you just watch your leave because Jakely Motter comes in. He starts apologizing, I mean, abuses do sorry, and you just wanted to leave, You wanted to leave, sadly she doesn't.

No, yeah, and that looks for me.

The most challenging part of this film was the domestic violent stuff. It's really raw and brutal and as it is in real life. So I guess you know that is something nowadays that would have a trigger warning on it because and they do portray that relationship to show that while he's a big, tough guy and he thinks that he can beat up people and that's the way to get what he wants in life, he's also this incredibly fragile weak man who feels the need to exert

Well.

They when the movie came out, they watched the film together and Jake Lamta's reaction was he felt horrified seeing himself on the screen like that, and he said, I wasn't that bad, was I?

And she said you were worse.

Yeah, I believe that. I absolutely believe.

And this film doesn't can't exist with that.

If the story goes that Jake Lamtter becomes, you know, the most celebrated boxer in history, and as all the the love around him and the riches, this movie doesn't work. And it doesn't it You need to see he become a loser, become lonely, begging for that hug from his brother, you know, you know, playing in a playing really shit comedy to a six.

The segue into the stand up comedy career, because he wouldn't be one of his strong points if I had to pick a personality trade.

Stand up comedy, and I'm like, what what happened? I don't even understand how did we get to stand up comedy with this guy?

I I you know it's I think it's a masterpiece. And you wouldn't you wouldn't change anything, like you said scorse in this film, just just as catch up. You know, this is this is what's happening. You could argue that maybe you know, and the fact that it's a true story. This obviously happened.

It did. He used to go around reciting Shakespeare Pete. He didn't actually do much comedy. He would just turn up and like what kind of what at the end? Just soliloquies and excerpts of things that writings that moved him.

There was no indication throughout the film that he had any kind of interest in Shakespeare. Esse Williams or comedy, and I thought, mate, you know, if I agree.

Earlier when he's at the at the nightclubs and there are guys on stage, and maybe maybe if I go back and watch it again, you know you might see But maybe it's just like a just to see him kind of clock idea, thinkling that that maybe that would be something that might be fun for him to do down down the track.

He seemed a man a few words up to that point, do you know, like it only spoke the absolute necessary words in a very loud way if he wanted to know something.

He didn't strike me as a question asker. So yeah, yeah, it'd.

Be like if Peter dunn't quit politics and then was at a Melbourne comedy festival.

Next year.

On the cards You're not a funny guy.

No, now, you're right. Yeah, that was the one bit.

But I mean so much at the end of the film, and the reason he put on all that weight was for like a ten minute sequence four months of eating and all that health problems and the six months it took him to lose it up was for ten minutes of film where he's like busting out of attacks. I just thought that was such commitment.

Some people aren't that lucky, like the one the Marlon Brando played an on the waterfront, an up and comer who was now down and outer. You remember I'd seen in the back of the car with his brother, Charlie, a small time racket guy, and I want something like this. It wasn't him, Charlie, it was you. You remember that night of the garden. You came down my dressing room and you said, kid, the Saint your Knight. We're going for the price on Wilson. Remember that the Saint your Knight,

It was you, Charlie.

He was my brother.

You should have looked out for me a little bit. You should have looked out for me just a little bit. You should have taken care of me just a little bit, instead of making me take them dice for the short end money.

You don't understand.

I could have a class.

I could have been a contender.

I could have been somebody instead of a bum, which is what I am. Let's face it, it was you, Charlie.

It was you, Charlie.

And how is it when he goes to get he needs the money and he goes to get these championship and he's meshing with the hem, he's trying to get the jewels, the diamonds out of it, and it takes it to the.

Where's the belt? That's what's worth?

That's what I was young. Why does he just about why is the hammer? I was so mad. I just I just you know, Oh my god, why does he just take the whole belt? What's he doing double for the whole thing?

God?

It was well, I was doing the same thing. I was literally yelling at the screen.

The you mentioned the boxing belts earlier, it well they are they are so good, and they're all shot differently. But Scorsese really wanted to make the audience feel like they were in the ring with them, and and to the extent where but I.

Said they're all different, someone's that they're in the ring. Sometimes. You know.

There's one of the scenes the Bout where de Niro is Jake Lomono loses the bout and he's a bit confused as to White and it's some of the focus is out.

And then there's a shot from.

Outside the ring where the rope of the ring is kind of like covering thro Thearow's eyes. It's just kind of supposed to show you that he's disorientated, that that's not really making sense for him. There's another fight where there's like almost like there's a fire in the in the arena and it's really smoking. You can actually you can hear the crackle a fire, and it's supposed to be like that this fight is taking place in a pit of hell. It's it's all those details.

You know.

Some movies is just like it represents like a master class in every element, and I feel like this.

Is one of them.

Yeah, it really isn't and you have to kind of go back and appreciate it. I think when you're watching it, you're just trying to take it all in and it's it really is quite visceral. So like that's why I've gone away and read about it and then gone back and rewatched it, and my appreciation for it is so much more.

But I think it's the result of.

A non sport artist being told to film. You know, I think I think it really the filmly benefited from the fact that he wasn't a boxing Scorsese, that he didn't feel the need to honor the sport of boxing as I think Rocky did. Rocky was clearly made by people who love fucking boxing, like, but this film was made by an artist who was trying to show people boxing, and so I just think that's why it was just less sporty and more arty and opera like and performative.

Think absolutely right.

And even the lack of training montages anything, I think you're only for memory.

You really see him train.

Yeah, he was stirring, and that's you know, you see him bring his mates over, you know, and that's you know, that's more to do with that really than anything that's actually happening in the ring.

As far as any there's no crunches, there's no there's no running up this you know Philadelphia. Yeah, steps which.

No disrespect some of the greatest scenes, I mean, you know, amazing, but this film is Yeah, it's just sure there's boxing in it. But anyone who was worried about the comparisons need not have been, like if they're just so far apart.

Yeah, yeah.

I want to give a shout out to two of the other actors as well. Frank Vincent, who plays as a cell. He scorse fans would recognize him. He's in Good Fellows, He's in Casino, He's in The Sopranos. He played Phil in The Sopranos. Died a couple of years ago. As the Jecula model. Jelam only died in twenty seventeen. It was ninety five, believe it or not lived.

In ninety five, took that many hits to there.

It's incredible.

God, well it doesn't know, it doesn't surprise me because he came back from being knocked out so many times.

Like, yeah, of course he lived in ninety five, that makes sense.

And Nicholas Colasanto, who played Tommy, he was coached from Cheers. I'm not sure if you ever watched Cheers.

Please, I'm the daughter of a baby boomer. Of course I watched Cheers.

On my God, I have a chance and a toys.

Cheers was like one of my favorite sicks, Cheers and family Tires if I was growing up. Yeahs, because I Cheers is in Boston.

Even at Tana, I was invested in the Sam Diane situation, like, of course.

So good.

So I think she started in eighty two and coach was for the first few years. I died in ninety five, so yeah, so he it was great to see U see him on the on screen. Well, it's been a lot of pleasure.

Wow.

I was really fascinated because you sent me a message when you watch it saying a little bit triggering, concerned, But I am you know, I'm glad.

You know, I'm kind of glad you've watched it, and yeah, no, thank.

You for make like I don't think I would have if it wasn't for this, but I always when I commit to something, I like to get inside of it where it has a skin suit and roll around to the edges.

So I had to understand this film.

So I'm glad you, thank you, thank you for giving me the gift of this film, because it really made me nostalgic and proud and sad, and it made me feel all the things that movie and cinema should make you feel. Because this is why I'm such a fan of it. So thank you, thank you for allowing me out of it.

And one last thing.

So DeNiro wins that the Oscar in nineteen eighty SU's a forty year anniversary this year for this movie.

Wow, and this is the official celebration.

Yes, they'll be rapped to stab someone and do correct.

Yeah.

So de Niro wins, I feel like this is good to bring this up in the way the world is at the moment he wins the Oscar, it doesn't make a great speech. He gets out there, he thinks the right people he's up against, people like Robert de Vaal, John hurt for the elephant man, and he'd a Fonder or Henry Fonder, one of the Fonders.

Not Jane.

But he ends up he ends up saying the references with all the terrible things happening in the world at the moment. You know, he's you know, he's bad. We can a nola this with all the terrible things happening in the world at the moment. And I did think.

As I watched that.

I watched that last night, I was just you know, looking around for some stuff, and I thought, okay, the world was you know, there's always terrible stuff happening in the world. I don't remember a pandemic happening in well, I wonder if it was.

There was.

I think nineteen eighty there was an assassination attempt on run a Break and I think that was nineteen eighty. I didn't do the next thing and then look up, you know Wikipedia, nineteen eighty and I will do and bring that to you. But maybe it was the tension, you know Russia USA tension, Yeah, which of course will lead to the birth of Ivan.

Drago whatever her hits, get this strike years later.

But I will leave that easter egg lay that yeah.

Leave that.

But yeah, so you know, the world's always been a terrible place, so let's just embrace it.

And it's what a fucking love about you, Pete Hell your inspirational to the end.

Best we've got.

Hey, guys, the world's always been pretty fucking terrible, so let's just make the best of it.

Thank you Pek twenty twenty to Light for whatever it is.

Thank you.

M Hi Choo Choo.

Love having that chat with m She has such a unique voice and and she just puts everything out there, which which we love and I love having that chat to her about Raging Bull and other things. Check out our podcast Msolation, which she does with Michael Lucas, who is a great talent. He is a strained writer of a lot of the TV series, particularly Offspring as when I first came across Michael's work, Offspring a great Australian drama series.

So thanks em.

I want to think my podcast manager Derek Myers at Castaway Studios dot com dot Au. If you want a great space to record your podcast, this is the place to be. Cassawaystudios dot com dot Au and Tom and Jimmy at Circus Tree Sounds.

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They will sort you out.

And also email us at yasny podcast dot com dot Au. I am loving hearing from so many people. The feedback on the show has been outstanding. We are the number one film podcast in Australia. We got there after a single week and also we had the number one film and TV podcast in Australia. So thanks to everyone for listening. Please, if you can rate us, I recommend five stars and also just tell your friends. The word of mouth is still extremely valuable.

So did that for us? I appreciate it.

Get onto us, tell us what you think about the podcast, anything you heard that you liked, anything you know, constructive criticism. I'm open to that as well. Next week on the show or next episode. Very excited a great made of mine and who has gone on to become a comedy sensation. Genuinely Ronnie Chang is on the show next week. I've known Ronnie for over ten years now is just taking it everything.

He's just taking everything.

His Netflix special is one of the great comedy specials of recent years, Asian comedian Destroys America. If you haven't seen it, check it out. You'll also need to check out if you're going to listen to the podcast Made in Manhattan. That was the movie that Ronnie recommended, So we chat about that all things j LO.

We also chat a lot about Crazy.

Rich Asians, which Ronnie was in and he gives fascinating insight in getting that role, what it meant to him, what was like being on set. And also he also talks about some of the great Australian films that he enjoyed catching during his ten years here in Australia. And there's one film that really surprised me that he found and became a little bit obsessed with, and it's a