Bob Murphy And Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid

Koby Peter Hally here Welcome to You and See Nothing Yet the movie podcast where I chat to movie lovers about classic and beloved the movies they haven't quite got around to watching until now.

And today's episode is a bonus episode.

We're putting out this on the weekend on the Sunday, not only because people are in Lockdown, and not only because it features an AFL legend on a week where it's the by round before the finals begin, but also because I was really touched by a letter I received

Was you know what I was hoping for?

And Lei Warren got on to me and really touched me with a leather and I just quickly read some of it.

She just wanted to.

Say the podcast has helped her get through a really tough time. She says, I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer the week we went into Lockdown two point zero in Melbourne and are now going through a chemo. It is so good to have something easy to listen to that makes me think and laugh. I really love movies, so I knew I would love this, but I didn't realize that you knew so much. I love listening to you talk about your knowledge of the industry and people you

Enjoy racing nothing yet.

Bob Murphy is a AFL footballer will now retired AFL footballer like no other. He has won so many hearts, not only during his career where his beloved Western Bulldogs that he captained won the Grand Final sadly while he was injured, and the outpouring of love and.

Support was directed to Bob was.

Indicative of how he has conducted himself over his career. He was the kind of player and this kind of player exists in all kinds of sports, where no matter who you support, whether you support their fiercest rivals or any of the other teams in the competition, you could not help but love the way Bob Murphy went about his playing career, not only the way he handled himself on the ground, but also off the ground. He is i'll say, just funnier than most footballers.

He is more cerebral in his humor.

He's a bit left of center, you know. He writes columns that drill much further than most footballers often ghost written columns do.

He has written books. Leather Soul was the one, a recent one, which is an absolute cracker. I urge you if you get a chance to read Leather Soul.

He loves his music, he loves his movies, and I was thrilled when Bob agreed to sit down with me.

I've had a bit to do with him over the years. He was always very i'll say happy, editorialized, happy to be involved with any of the straw any sketches in the early days before the game, the n AFL football program I put together, and he was also so always great to have on. He also brought back the term rascal back into our vernacular with his Rascal of the

My name is Bob Murphy, and my three favorite films are The Big Lebowski. You know, that's just like.

Your opinion, man Field of Dreams.

People will come ray welcome to alework for resons they can't even fer them, and a star is born a beautiform.

But until last night, as it happens, actually I'd never got around to watching Puch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. And it's a movie that, in my heart of hearts, I kind of just knew that I would love. So I can't wait to chat to Petele about that many other things.

Yes, rain jobs and bullets rained down in George roy Hill's nineteen sixty nine Western classic starring proper, genuine, bona fide movie stars Paorn Newman and Robert Redford as the titular Butch Cassidy Paor Newman and the Sundance Kid. Robert Redford, the romantic Butch and the Gunslinging Sundance are celebrities in the Wild West, generous with their loot and love by most. After they rob the same man and the wrong man twice, hired guns, a super posse are sent to take them out.

Bob Murphy, welcome to you. Ain't seen nothing yet.

Oh Pete. Thank you so much for haven't me.

Man.

It's a it's an absolute pleasure and it's a and honestly it's a gift because you know, that list of movies that you should watch but haven't watched.

Is quite a big one, and.

Your your message and reaching out to me was like the kick up the ass that I needed. And it's kind of sparked Butch.

Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

I enjoyed it so much that it's kind of kick started me into Okay, now I've just got to start motoring through this list.

So thank you very much.

Man.

That's absolutely the reason I'm doing this podcast pot because I I'm a movie lover and and people often will incorrectly refer to me as a film buff. But there's so many blind spots in my videography that is embarrassing to be referred to as a as a movie buff when there are so many classics I haven't seen, and I haven't seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids. So this I was so stoked when you when you selected this film, and that works either way to met for me.

Take us through your field of dreams.

Well, yeah, I think on the surface, like Field of Dreams.

It's kind of I mean, it's it's a little bit corny, pardon the pun. It is said in the corn the corn field of ice. So there's definitely an element of it. But when I watched it is when it came out, I really liked it, but I thought of it as a baseball sort of film, yeah, and then sort of coming back to it later in life as a and then you know, as a as a pair as well, sort of watching it through the lens of you know, sort of nearing middle age and fatherhood and all that

In my heart of hearts, I like I could watch it today.

Like if I watched it yesterday and then tonight I get home and I said, hey, we should watch it, I'll be like, yeah, let's watch Field of Dreams.

It makes me feel good. I love Kevin Costner.

I don't know the rules of baseball all that well, but I just love the romance and baseball. And I do love kind of early nineties because I was born in eighty two, but I kind of consider myself a nineties kid, and it's just such a sweet spot of nineties early nineties cinema, which just kind of makes me feel good.

It's just a great story. I like the surrealism of it. I've just created something totally alargical.

Just plackabu absolutely and Robert Redford will be chatting to a lot today.

Do you where does the Natural set in your in your movieography?

Well, it's it's up so.

Yeah, I mean I played footing and all that sort of thing, and so sports movies do, I do kind of have a leaning to ord them and baseball have the baseball and boxing of the two sports that kind of have the best kind of have the best sports film. So The Natural, Bull Durham. Yeah, they're all lovely, but there's yeah, Becaurse one and two, there's just something that

The Big Lebowski is one of those.

I mean, it's you know, it's an indie sort of cult sort of classic and like like your favorite indie band, that.

Movie kind of feels like yours.

Like it's like, that's like the sense of humor in The Big Lebowski, in the dry sort of.

Humor of it.

And the ridiculousness of the characters and how it all sort of works in it feels like it's it's not a movie for everyone, and that's what that's what kind of that sort appeals to it. You know, there's a bit of that snobbery involved around maybe as well, but it does kind of feel like that's why I like putting it on a list. It's like, that's that's what makes me laugh. That's the that's the absolute funny bone for me that you know.

The dude mister Treehorn tells us that he had to eject you from his garden party, that you were drunk and abusive.

Mister Treehorn treats objects like women, man, and I do kind of feel like, even though it's, you know, a movie that was released.

Around the world and loved by millions. It does feel like it's it's my film, do you know what I mean?

I'm pretty sure the Coen Brothers made it for you.

Did they?

Did they? That's nice. I mean it's one thing to know it, but it's one thing to really know.

You know, you've always suspected it, but it's just it's.

Yeah, mega muffins those.

I tell you it's I think it's probably maybe along with Fargo.

If you look in the editing into.

The Coen Brothers bast you know, filmography, then then the Big lab bask is probably the best entry point. And if you don't like the Big Labanski doesn't mean your way old country for you know, yeah, yeah, it just means that. You know, if you love the Big Labouski, you'll probably love everything that brothers. This is the Yeah, this is its kind of beat. It's got a bit of it's not it's not going to stick to.

The formulaic kind of way of filmmaking. And I'm just I'm a Coen Brothers guys. You know there, what do they say, You're buy season tickets to certain sort of directors where if they put something out, I'll just watch it. I'll just make it in a matter of habit sort of thing.

I agree, I'm not by see some tickets for the Coen Brothers for Tarantino. Alexander Payne, Yeah, right, Anderson would be my four seat. Yeah.

I would probably throw Scorsese in as well.

From yes. Yeah. And finally, there's been four versions of A Star is Born? Which one are you referring to?

I am referring to the the of course of Judy Garland. Yeah, just because you know, I don't want to come on a you know, a podcast about proper high art filmmaking and think that I'll just go for the recent box office hit.

With that Lady Gaga Seeler and the other Cooper fella, let's get out of this. No.

So I went went and saw that when it came out, and really had you know, when you go to the movies blind, not not drunk, you know, you go in So I didn't really I'm not even sure if i'd seen the preview, but was like, okay, let's go see the Lady Gaga film.

So I was not.

I didn't have any emotional armor on at all.

Yeah, And as soon as it started, I had that hunting. This is my kind of aesthetic I like a bit of do like a bit of a down and out country singer, like the sad cowboy. Don't mind a bit of that. And as soon as I said, I was in, and when it finished, it felt like it felt like proper grief. It honestly felt like I really took it heart really, without spoiler alert, I took it hard and walked home and put the soundtrack on and actually hugged the kitchen bench because I was so upset.

Wow.

Yeah, it just got its claws in me. Do you often react like so emotionally.

A reaction?

Not like that? Not like that?

And I don't know if maybe you know I get you at a certain point in your life or whatever, but it was just the one for me that it just ripped my heart out.

It was so I loved the love story Glory. You know, it's obviously you know it's got some tragic.

But I kind of found it quite inspiring too, you know that, because you start to you, Okay, there's the film, but then I start to think about, you know what a what a piece of you know what an artistic accomplishment by Bradley Cooper to to direct it and act in it and all of that stuff and what just full of admiration and sadness for for dear old Jackson.

Yeah, absolutely, did you see. I'm I'm pretty sure you would have the test the Australian Cricket. Yeah, we used apply because every now and then there's a movie obviously that can pierce unsuspecting men in emotional ways that you are you are of a deal, a tant you know, you are in touch with your emotions, but it obviously really.

Tough, tough guy.

I think the phrase you're looking at he really obviously hit in there with the Australian Cricket co it's Justin Langer.

One of my favorite things about The Tests, which is like an eight part or so documentary tracking the Australian cricket scene from the low point of the cheating scandals with the sampaper Gate through their reduction.

Of you know, a successful Ashes series.

But what made what I love the most was occasionally you just see Justin Langer in the background as saying, mate, you've got to see that a star is born in the cinema. You've got to see it in the cinema.

I love that. It is one of the it is one of the things about movie lovers.

Isn't it that it's if you're into it, you start to borderline bully other people. Yeah, you need to the point where it's And in these days I find it like the new, like this new type of anxiety because there's so many, so many television shows, and so many good television shows.

Oh, you've got to watch, You've got feel like, you know.

What, Just I'm doing one at a time. Yeah, yeah, on one at a time. Leave, But you can never enjoy the one you're watching because you're meant to be watching the other one. No, but wait till you're finished. Oh, wait till you finish that you've got to watch. You're gonna like, can I just That's why I probably just go, you know what, all of your shut up. I'm gonna watch Field of Dreams for the fiftieth time.

I was going through Netflix and any of the streaming services. Is like driving in to an almost empty car park where there are one hundred free car parks, but you can still not choose the one you want.

To park in. Yeah, too many to but there might be a better one around the corner. Yeah, not that one. Too much choice, too much choice.

I gave you a few choices to watch.

And basically when I approach people to be on this podcast, I give them a suggested listen. It doesn't have to be on that list, but he chose Butch Cassidy and The Sun Dance Kid Itchington. No, because we haven't discussed it off air. If you like, what did you make of it?

I loved it, but I kind of already knew I would love it so because it just had too many of the.

Good things, didn't that.

Yeah, so we've got Paul Newman, Robert Redford. It's a buddy film.

I knew. I knew enough about it to.

Know that it kind of kick started the whole it's a it's a buddy film in it. Yeah, And I've seen the poster their cowboys, so you know, I'm a frustrated cowboy. In another life I would have been a cowboy. So I just kind of knew that I would love it. But I got to say to sit down and watch it.

Sort of start ticking a few off. So your timing was perfect.

But a few weeks that we watched Out of Africa yep, yeah, with Robert Redford, and it was incredible. But it was that, I mean, it is such an epic classic, you know, the long slow burn, and I had kind of one Butch Cassidy would be a bit long in that sort of long slow which I was completely up for.

But I was kind of pleasantly surprised by how how modern it felt.

It did kind of it rattles along at a good pace, and it doesn't have sort of too many sort of.

Sort of slow.

Bits or you know, I think it runs for an hour and fifty minutes.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, So I really liked it.

But what I found interesting in my own thoughts was how because I've watched it in the wrong order, I was thinking, oh, that kind of reminds me a bit of that film and that kind of but of course it's like, well they've they've pinched you know, a bit of that. It kind of set you know, it seems to have set kind of a bit of a bit of a.

Path for lots of other films and filmmakers.

Well, it was a real changing of the guard for the for the Western.

And I think audiences now probably have you know, a young, young movie loving audience or just young people now wouldn't have any idea how many Westerns they used to make that you know, in the in the in the forties fifties, but they would make a one hundred a year, you know. And there was the feeling, this was maybe in nineteen

There was a feeling that was getting a bit tired. Yeah.

So which Cassidy in the Sun Dance Kid just came along and kind of this to the point where and there's a massive box up was hit over one hundred million dollars.

Six million dollar budget and made a hundred million. It's like, whoa, that'sbelievable.

So now that would I think, adjusting for inflation, be like the thirty fourth, the thirty fifth high.

Rank for all time? Yeah, I love yeah, so and It was critically not loved to begin with.

Really, Roger Eva gave it.

Two and a half stars, and the criticism.

Seemed to be bob that they it was too light, that it was you know, like that they used to make lessons that were.

Really grim and serious, and this was serious business, you know.

Being a cowboy and catching the baddies, and and this this had fun, This had you know, Paul.

Newman, and it's borderline comedy comedy like yes, and and and the comedy doesn't kind of you I'm speaking to a comedian, of course, but the comedy.

Lands absolutely like.

The script is good and it's punchy in that they are two of the greatest actors, but they do like inhabit the inhabit those roles so well. The one line is a great I thought it was really quite funny. I had me sort of going along the whole time. Well, Paul Human was nervous about making the film because he said to the director George roy Hill that he's not a comedic actor.

And he apparently made one comedy which thought he thought was his worst performance, something like you know, hey, Tipsy the belt boy or something with a really weird name. And he made him watch it, and the director said, you don't have to try to be funny, just just play everything for real, which is the best advice for anyone who's nervous about performing comedy as far as acting goes.

Just don't try to make it funny. It should be funny, but writing some funny, yeah, it's not. It's not.

Whole slapstick thing.

Yeah.

So I as well kind of thought I would love this going in, and I decided pretty much.

Strike.

Do you have that feeling that you have decided you'd love the film very early on?

Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that was me.

So I had that in the opening credits with the old the old CPIA, you know film, and that you can hear the film ticking over, you know.

I just thought, I love this.

I love that, and I even loved the what was what's the line? I should have written? There was most of them.

Yeah, most of what happened is true. It's like, I mean, you've got.

That, that's that that hooked me in straight away.

Yeah, and then you just go into this beautiful kind of it's a CPA kind of a film, and then it kind of slowly kind of segues into more modern times with Paul Newman, a butcher in the bank until being closed up, and he has a great line what happened to he to the old bank?

It was beautiful? The security guard says, it kept on getting robbed and he said, he says, you know, it's a small price to pay for beauty, which kind of stunds up but himself.

Yeah, can we can we go straight to the heavyweight question and we can dance around it all you like. I think we need to go for the jugular? Yeah, who is more handsome? Paul Newman or Robert Redford.

When I watched it, I watched it alone.

Cray, Hey, what sort of podcast is this? I mean, I know I got the ball rolling, but film let's go to keep it in film school.

There is no bunk band on this podcast. I watched it had a love bottle of peanut and.

My wife I was gonna watch it, but she decided to retire for the night. And then she's a bit tired and she woke up in the mind she said, how was the film?

And I just said her, Oh my god, I knew Newman and Redford were handsome guys.

Yeah, distracting, Yeah, just their their eyes were Yeah, I was sat there watching it and Justine was she was watching it next to me, and I just and I said to her, said, right, who's the Who's the most handsome?

Because I had already decided it was Paul Newman.

I was just sort of lost in his in his gorgeousness, and and she said Paul.

And that's when they had the hats on. And then as the film went in the second half where the hats, the hats go.

Off, and she turned and said, I'd like to change my vote please. Yeah, Redford at the hair game.

I may have had the same reaction. I think Newman's hairstyle, which I'm not sure it was completely accurate to the time.

It might have been highlight. But yeah, I reckon Newman may just have the points, even though I've always been a lover of his eyes, even even on a spaghetti they look good.

Yeah.

Opened a bottle of peanut right now about this, Well, it's it's it's past midday, so we can you know, It's interesting.

I always with classic films to look at who was considered for the roles and who weren't because the studio weren't that keen on Robert Redford he wasn't a big star yet. Paul Redford, poor Newman was he made cool

Steve McQueen had me interested, But that's really difficult.

I mean, I'm the same as I'm fascinated by those kind of things and you know, the sliding doors of could we imagine that? But I feel like this is really difficult because Butch Cassidy and The sun Dance Kid is like it's almost ingrained into culture. You know, it's you know that whole that old saying. You know that Beatle songs are funneled into the wormb kind of thing.

It was it was sort.

Of like meeting and old, you know, someone someone you'd never met but were instantly recognized.

So to think about other people in.

The roles like no, no, no, but that's yeah, that's that's like, you know, imagining someone to you know, who would cover Elvis Presley some no, no, no, I'm sure you're a good singer, but that's that role is done. That's all sort of out so now. But the Steve McQueen one did have me go.

Oh, that would have been.

Yeah, I've got no doubt Stephen Queen would have crushed it.

You know.

But like you said, it is almost impossible to reimagine. And there's barely been a better duo male duo on on screen and on camera than Paul Newman and Robert Redford. And it's interesting because what comes around goes around in the way for these superstars because I think they wanted I think Paramount when The Godfather they Cassidy GODFD wanted Robert Robert Redford to play Michael Collon. Wow, and which I could never have imagined.

That doesn't that does Yeah, that doesn't. That doesn't chime. No, I love I love Redford, but that doesn't quite.

That feels that this was when in that first scene when you see Redford or sun Dance sitting down and that you know he won't leave the card game until they ask him to pay, which is a great scene. Yeah, I thought, taking away the fact that this is quite obviously not from Sicily.

Well he doesn't. He certainly doesn't scream Sicilian.

I will tell.

I could buy his presence. Yeahs as Mike Collon. But yeah, like I said, I can't imagine I can't imagine anyone else as Sundance, and I can't imagine anyone else as as.

I have decided to your Godfather, I can't swim. Nah.

They got they got this, They got this one, right, they got this one.

What do you think of the love triangle? I think it's a point.

Well, I'm glad you brought this up. I wasn't sure if I was meant to think the things I was thinking.

I was like.

The look the bike ride date with Butcher and I couldn't. It was like, are they are they having an affair? Is he is or at least his Butcher in love? Yeah? I kind of think he was.

I felt that was what I felt like.

I felt like he was and she kind of knew it, but she was in her heart belonged to Sun Dan's who was you know he was kind of a bit and ambivalent.

Towards the whole thing, because yeah, I found that bit. And then and then when they the three of them go off and then they had Bolivia is like, what's happening here?

Well, apparently historically because much gas that's asking, it's based on real people, were real people as at a Place was her name, At a Place played by Katherine Ross, who you would recognize from the graduate, and she was a real person.

Supposedly she may have been a put him in twenty twenty terms a sex worker that they made her.

A teacher for this movie, and supposedly she may have been romantically involved historically with both men.

Ah right, okay, well that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean that's yeah. I did get to a point thinking I've got to bring this up tomorrow on this podcast, and I feel like I'm going to this is gonna make it make her real form, And so I'm going.

Oh jeez, Murphy, you're creep.

How dare you desecrate the altar of Butcher Cassidy and and Eta and the Sundance Kid and this menajo toire filth?

Like yeah, but I feel like something's going down here and this.

Is well because you have that great first scene where she comes in and the Sundance Kid is sitting in the corner with his gun and makes her basically stripped, and you're kind of going, oh no, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's no is no, and then there's holding someone at gunpoint, you know, it's like yeah, and.

Then breaking several several laws here, Sundance come on.

Yeah, But some dances it was in the clear. It was consensuous, a little role play. Obviously liked to do it.

It's to their own. It was the time. It was eighteen ninety nine, move on.

So my, my, my. For the film point of view, I saw it as that sun Dance and Edda had a very passionate kind of you know, sexual relationship, but she was she was friendlier and got along emotionally better with but which was a more romantic character, and some dances the heart of the two men.

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's it. I think that's a really a really good summary, and it does kind of off play with the you know, because it is it's essentially I suppose that the the biggest thing on the landscape is that it's the friendship I suppose between Butch and Sundance. But yeah, that that I think that that balance there how you've described is probably it between the three of them.

Yeah. I think I think Butch is adhering to the code. Yeah, I mean, I mean the outlaws.

What happens in the Old West stays in the Old West.

Man.

That's as the old saying goes.

I should we should point out we mentioned him earlier, but William Goldman, who is one of the great proponents of the art of the craft of screenwriting, so he some of his credits include The Prince as Bride of the President was read as well, Misery Maverick, and he even did a script revisions on Twins with Danny DeVito.

And hey, hey, we've all got to pay the bills, you know.

I think I think after you've done, you've written, but Cassidy, I think after you've you've done all the President's men and a few of those other ones you mentioned. That's you know what he's renovating.

His out is.

You know, I'll take the check and I'll I'll help you out with Twins. Here, here's the here's the here's the BSB, here's the account number.

I'm catching in here.

There is zero judgment and because he probably made Twins a much better movie.

Probably that's what it was. Probably it was probably schwartzing Egg and Stallan, and he's probably, you know what, what did we make it to veto? And then he's just pocketed, like, you know, five million dollars for that one day's work.

How how bad was it before he got to it? That's that's really that is.

The key question.

How it loved? And he actually had trouble getting this movie made, so he went around to all the studios. They all said no, except for one, the one who eventually made it. There was is this for Butch Cassidy, Yeah, we moved twins. We're not identical twins.

Oh no, No, I was gonna say, I don't know where you're going with this.

I assumed that Twins would have been turned down it I hope it was.

Well in more shopping Us. But Sandansky was also turned down by most of the studios. William Goldman said to one of the executives, or one of the executive said that William Goldman, why do they have to go to South America? Why don't we keep them in America? To which he replied, because that's what actually happened, So replied, is sure, but nobody gives a ship. All I know is that John Wayne never ran.

Uh which his men were men, pete when men were men.

Missed those days.

He's more of a sundance guy. Tippin.

That executive didn't what's the star is born born and hugged.

N He didn't do the same.

The same executive used to light his matches on the whiskers from his cheek.

He seems like one of those guys. Oh wow, So.

What what did you think of when the super posse kind of they let out of the carriage and the chase was on.

What what did you think of?

The chase was going back to Roger critical gave it to an half like they fill up until that point and then thought that he kind of slowed it down.

What did you think of the chance?

No, I kind of liked it because it it flipped them at the start, They're like, they look good.

They robed trains, that's very cool.

They've got the witty one liners, they've got money, they're popular, they've got the women.

And then all of a sudden their rhythm was thrown out.

So we've got to see them kind of on the other side of that of being hang on, we've we might have met our match year and now we're.

Out of control. So how does how does that affect us?

And are we still able to are we still able to hold this charisma? And I kind of liked the way it changed gears from there.

Yeah, I absolutely loved it, and I'm really I was really surprised to read that review, and I loved it.

Was almost like he was the liquid nitrogen do to you know, the terminato too, Like this this this possibly just could not shape And these are the guys who've never never been close to being caught, you know, and they not be away.

And I love I loved it. They were always butchered.

Sometimes we're always shot in the foreground with we never got close to that superpossit. I always yeah, bopping torch lights on the horizon, and I unders thought I loved it.

That was really effecting.

You know the great scene where the where the torch lights go separately and then they came back and they kind of realized that.

O god, they've they've sort of worked it out.

I liked it, and I love is it Butcher's line around.

He wished they'd either catch up or fall away, but they're just holding the same like they're just holding the same des.

And that was kind of funny, like they it was.

And then they lose their horse and then they're down a horse and that's the two of them on a horse, and they kept the humor, but it was a different kind of It was a different sort of dynamic of the him where all of a sudden they were the one being sort of outpointed. I thought, I thought it gave a really good counterpoint to the start of it.

Absolutely. I love that.

This famous scene where they jump off into the into the river below. There's a great line where Red or some dance admits that you can't swim, and which he replies.

You're crazy. The four will probably kill you.

And then that sort of pause after that, can I ask you so when it got to the last.

The last sort of shootout, so the big finale.

And ye, and then they're both so they're they're surrounded and they're shot, and they they know they're done for they know they're done, but they sort of have this little chat and they talk about, you know, going to Australia of all places, and which I got, you know, a certain a sudden sort of shocking moment of patriotism.

There go to Australia.

I always always have to me when I'm watching movies, like when when Tom Cruise mentioned that his brother Rayman that the only way they could get across.

Australia unconscious.

Yes, And when you know they're surround and they're shot and they're done, but they never got they never sort of went to the depths like they were still trying to make each other laugh and sort of keep it, sort of keep their vehicle. And that was That's that beautiful friendship, you know, that was the dynamic they had that they were you know, was probably a bit more

You know, they weren't gonna they were gonna hug the kitchen bench. They were they kept their thing.

And then as soon as as soon as they then react and they sort of run out and faced, I was like, oh God, this is.

Thelma and Louise. That just that's what.

That's the whole finish of Thelma and Louise.

What And I kind of wondered that if that was, you know, obviously in the other in the other way, if that was that was what was pinched. It was that last little chat and you know, we're just going off into the you know, we're just taking it on.

We know, we know what's about to happen, and that's what we're going to do.

You know, I got no doubt that, you know.

I mean, if Fridley Scott wasn't thinking about peducation in this Undance King when when they did that uh you know movie from the script stage, or even when I performing it with Jeena Davis and Susan Surranda, that this realm must have been a reference point. And this is why it's great watching these classic movies, because you're going to go, oh, now, I like you said, you mentioned

Yeah.

Yeah, and I think I think it's spot on.

So did you. So let's just let's with the ending, so they have that.

I've always thought I love Westerns when those scenes where it's like there's an inevitability here, like this is they know at the end they're going to go out shooting. Yeah, but they're going to share some words and have a moment before this happened. But this is very rarely in movies. Do you have characters who know they're about to die? Yeah, I mean, you know, it happens.

They could be ill and I know that, and you know, shootouts often bring this opportunity.

But Westerns, I think, do it really well where it's like, okay, this is the end. Literally, well we're we're already been shot up. There's no escape.

Nah.

Do you think with Westerns and like, you're right, because they seem to do it with it fits because it does kind of feel like destiny for these guys, like it's almost like this is this is what this is how it had to wind.

This is we were going to kick doing things.

You know that they talk about, you know, working jobs and I don't know how to farm.

I don't know, and this is what I do. I'm a train robber, you know.

And so they must they must instinctively know that eventually you run out of lives and you get caught and then this is how it goes and you get shot. And it's almost in this one there's almost that last little chat they have. There's a sense of peace for them. So you can you can stop chasing, you can stop running, there's no there's no more banks to rob. Now it's like, this is this is what I was putt here for, and this is what I've got to face the I've got to face the music.

I think when they're referring to Australia, they're actually talking about the afterlife.

Agree that there's there's wide open planes and we can we can ride forever. You know, they have banks there. You know, we can speak English because they've been struggling with the Blibyan language. That that see where they're going to the oblivion bank for the first time. Realizing they can't speak the local language is very funny. But I think I kind of the more I think about it, that's why I've taken out of it. That's that's that. That is the idea of heaven. Yeah, it's on the other side.

Of the world. It's it's they know there's no chance of getting to Australia. Australia, that's a great idea. Oh boy, it's the latest in a long line. Australia is no better than here, that's all, you know. I mean one thing Australia they do. That's right, smart guys. We wouldn't be foreigners that horses in Australia. They got thousands of miles when you can hide on it, good climate, nice beaches, you can learn to swim. No, swimming isn't important. What

Once you got on you it's blown away, though, wasn't.

Everything's got to be perfect with you.

I just don't want to get there and find out it stinks.

That's all. At least think about it.

All right, I think about it.

Hey, when we get outside, can we get to the horses. Just remember one thing. You didn't see the force out there? Did you the force?

No?

Oh? Good for a moment that I thought we were in trouble.

Yeah, Australia being heaven is like Lara Bingle pretty much said that in a tourism promotion a few years back.

But that's really familiar.

Terminated toes and we've got where the bloody hell are you so? And that's the holy trinity of Butch, Cassidy and Sundance. Thanks for joining us.

What did you think of the freeze frame ending?

Um, that's a good question. I did find myself thinking about this last night. I'm glad. I think I like it because as much as I liked like, I love the start. When we see Butch and sometimes as the invention or the creation of cool almost they're good looking, they're well dress, they've got the they've got the cool language, they're you.

Know, their bank croppers that it doesn't get any cooler.

And then they're kind of caught off guard, as we talked about with the chase and everything, and that was okay to see them sort of meet their match, but to see them actually shot and killed, for me, that would have just been a step too far. Just I want I kind of want them frozen in there, facing their mortality and their destiny without the gruesome.

Death, if you like, they've already confronted that.

So I kind of the they kept there, they kept their sort of their coolness, I could ply agree.

And I think also maybe one of the reasons was that there's there are conspiracy theories that, oh hello, that Butcher Sundance didn't actually die in Bolivia, that maybe they made it out and they made it back to the US and ended up dying of old age. So there's if you want to deep dive into some documentaries about the conspiracy theories. I think also it was a bit of a nod to those.

Theories because I think Butch Cassidy's sister always maintained that he lived and they know where he's buried, and they did actually go a historian went to the supposed grave site, because they buried him there in Bolivia, and they dug them up and did DNA on it, and it was it was It wasn't there.

It was like a I think a Nazi who had fled. Oh so, so I think it's a nice little, kind maybe tip of the hat to the idea that potentially you.

Know too, where's the sequel? Always leave space to be continued?

Did you did you? What did you think the film was about? But did you? Did you? Did you get like an over arching theme? I?

Yeah, I mean clearly the.

Male friendship thing that I think that was a big But I was kind of interested by.

Were they straddling two worlds?

So the Old West moving into this more sophisticated world.

Where they could be where their methods were suddenly.

You know, sort of redundant or whatever, that that time had now gone and robbing trains and all that, so the world was moving on, yes, And I kind of found it interesting The movie was made and released around you know, sixty eight sixty nine, and that being the end of that turbulent decade of the sixties where you know, the Summer of love and all that had had sort of you know, moved on, and then you know, sixty nine being quite a violent time, but all that change

Lifetime that's kind of what I kind of got out of it as well.

Was a lot. It was that progress, you know.

And and they were, you know, when they go to the sheriff, the old sheriff, and kind of ask for his help, and he says, you guys, you kind of forecasts what's about to happen.

Yet you guys are dying of bloody death.

You guys are just two bits, you know, cowboys or outlaws would have you caused them. But that it's it's mentioned quite early. It's one of the I had a laugh about it actually, when they the sheriff in town is trying to rally up people to go help round round up Butcher sun Dance. And then another guy gets up and says, he tries to sell the idea of the bicycle.

You know, the whole is dead. He says, it's the bicycle is the future, you know. And and I think that's a big that that's a that's just planning the scene of this is what it's about. And sometimes had a great run up until now. But they the world is changing and the and the zipper prop he has rifles that can get shod from a long way away. They just have their pistols so that they can't take them out from a distance. So I really do think it's it's a big part of the theme of the movie.

Yeah, that bike also just not to get you know, not to sort of you know, not to sort of trod all over the movie, but that bike. I've seen that bike riding up and down the streets in north But there's no way.

That was an They were like the original hipsters, those cowboys, because that fixie, that was a solid piece of equipment.

That thing I don't reckon. The first bicycles were as slick as that. That's all I will say about that.

I think if the Great Westcar Theater were the put on every Thursday night and be packed out. And when we those bikes, you know, passing outside, the.

Got the We've got the bikes, we've got the costumes.

We're ready to go out here.

I should I should point out this is a visual, sorry, an audible medium, but you've come dressed in your son's clobber as well.

I was actually quite annoyed with myself because I do have a cowboy hat and I was I was going to wear it today, even even knowing it was just for a for audio podcast, but just to you know, get in the mood of it.

There's a sad cowboy. It's all about the sad cowboy. Can I have got one for you? Though?

And I the the Collingwood theme song gets a run.

I was going to give what the Collingwood connection I was.

I was like a and almost it's like you have you played some kind of Jedi mind trick on me to give me a list of forty movies, knowing I'd picked this one just so I could have that moment of listening to the colling and theme. So I filing you bad bastard Hellia.

Goodbye Dolly Gray is the what good Old Collingwood Forever is based on. And yeah, it plays when they're at the hotel or the whorehouse.

Yeah, and it's playing. It plays for quite a while. And I got I must say, I got more excited about that than I did when I mentioned Australia at the end.

Yeah.

I mean it's probably a good thing.

I mean, I don't know if they had played Sons of the Sea, the Old Sea Shanty that the Bulldogs theme something is based on my cowboy hat may have just fallen right off. It would have just been too much for me to be.

I can't.

I couldn't have loved the film anymore.

Well, that is great.

There's one more thing that I shot, really I want to point out, and I actually loved it. Obviously, these are back in the days where you know, if you hear about any of George Miller's experiences making Mad Max in the seventies, you know, it's almost literally, you know, not literally, but the wild West Pardoner part of filmmaking,

Yeah, it's incredible.

I wondered that, Wow, that's a proper explosion, that that has really caught them off a little bit.

And it's definitely Redford, isn't it.

I remember thinking that's him yeah, I was sure if both of you were in there, but certainly one of them is in there on the on the right, on the right of the shot. But it feels like it's one of those things where they went after it happened, they went, oh shit, is everybody okay?

And did we get the shot?

Is it to be killing?

We didn't?

Excellent? Do we get it even better?

What I would say, I'm not quite as confident that it was Paul Newman riding the bicycle backwards.

That's what I had a close look at that.

Yeah, I can tell you Paul Newman did all his own stunts on the bicycle. He gave the dink to to Edda. But you are absolutely correct when he rides to the fence, well spotted that was the cinematographer.

Yeah, right, the cinema.

We're not going to start man to do it. Now, we'll get a cinematographer.

It's his bike, get him to do it.

You would love this, actually, Bob, they asked obviously Burt Bacharach's song range of Skip Falling in my Head. They asked Bob Dylan to record that for the for Bob said, Bob, you do a quiet boy version of that bar because I know you're one final fact. No animals were hurt during the making this film, I'm not. I don't know that for sure. One animal actually was hurt because there's a scene where a bull charges I think it's a butcher, and the wouldn't actually charge him.

They couldn't gi him the charge him. So that this is where there's big you know, there's more unions and there's more rules around the safety or not just the humans on on set, but the animals. To get the ball to charge Paul Newman, they sprayed chili sauce onto his.

Balls, onto his onto his balls, on.

The balls testicles, Bob.

Swinging, I'm wondering, Yeah, your career.

At Western Bulldogs. Did Roberty the same reaction at a Barry Hall.

Look, he didn't, he didn't actually he didn't actually spray the chili, But there were times where you got the same effect just from just from the mood of the room.

It felt like there was chili in the air.

Pete Bob, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the on the show. Before I do, let you go do it. You often ask, what's that is the a film you've seen recently or even a TV series. And I know, you know, we had that discussion earlier about there's so much and you're not watching this, be watching this, but is there is there a film or a TV series you're watching you've seen that you want to give a shout.

Out, Oh gee, whiz what you know, I'm one of these people that go into it.

I'm I'm now in a Jason Bateman phase, so you know, I'm more likely to search him.

Okay, what's he doing? What's what else has he done?

I'm just going just following the sort of thread of Bateman until I sort of get sort of done with that and then I'll kind of move on to something else. But that's what I'm so, you know, Ozark is the TV show that I'm watching at the moment, whilst I have twenty that I'm supposed to be watching, so trying not to stress out about that.

Well, thank you for taking your time out of your Jason Bateman marathon's. Yeah, I'm really glad we've got to watch this, you know, in together in a in a kind of way.

Yeah, I'm really glad around watching this one.

Yeah, thanks so much.

But it's such a great idea and it was that it was the kick up of the backside I needed.

And sincerely it has sort of motivated me now.

To to you know, start start crossing off more of these classic movies off the list, because I you know, I thoroughly enjoyed it and loved our chat today and it's always fund fund to sort of dissect these things and relive them.

Thanks Bob on your pat.

My, honey, I haven't believed you.

Okay, Well that wraps up series one if you ain't seen nothing yet. Like I said, it will be a short break one. I love doing it. I know people still need things to do and listen to.

And I just wanted to say once again to MLA who inspired me to get this episode out on the weekends and as a bonus episode.

Love and strength and prayers and support to you.

I hope you enjoyed the episode that gave you a little bit of a respite and distraction from your battles.

Thank you to everyone.

Thank you for Derek Meyers, my podcast manager Castways Studios dot com dot au.

You've done a brilliant job a podcasts.

I wouldn't have on how to go about it, and you steered the ship and I look forward to continuing our relationship in series two. And also Dan Murvies dot com dot Au thank you Dance for getting on the ground floor. We haven't quite signed off on series two yet, but hopefully you continue. Feel free to let down movies know how much you love the podcast, and Jimmy and Tom at Sixstree Sounds for all your boutique sounds audio sounds. We doing a TV commercial or a short film or

I look forward to that. So these are the episodes.

If you want to start watching any of those movies to get prepared, start now that. I would love the community we're putting together. All the emails are coming through. Everyone's so funny and generous and clever, and I really really am excited about the little community we are building around this podcast. And I hope to do live shows when we can all get together and maybe get to a cinema and we can have a panel discussion after it with some fun movies. So that's all in the future.

Leave old Pete save Fansel, and to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night