Robert John Burke

his character. I am telling you he's kind, humble, and self described more of a rufus. This was such a fun conversation. Robert and I talked about playing a character so different from himself, working with Kelly Rutherford and Ed Westwick, funny fan interactions, and of course what it was like to die, come back to life and die again. Supposedly you never really know with Bart. Here's Robert, now, can you hear me? I can hear you, I can hear you.

I'm just really bad with technology. I just don't get it. I would wear it as a badge of honor, just I mean, it's just nuts. And it's so funny because now in this day and age, you feel like everything's at a click of a button and it should be easy, but there's always like fifteen buttons to that one to make it work, and I'm like, it's too much for me.

So I was just on the phone with my twenty year old sons, one of whom took my Mac to the city today, and I'm like, dude, how do I do so unless I have those guys around, like my little tech men? Yeah. No, technology is certainly not making our lives easier. It's just promoting more stress. But that's okay. We're here. I can hear you, Yes, I can hear you. I'm excited to hear that very specific and beautiful voice

of yours. Yeah, it's been so long. I mean lately, I've been seeing your face so much because I'm doing these rewatches, which have been quite interesting and fun and very wild to me because I just didn't I knew what we were doing, but I also really didn't. I'm on that same line. Yes, yeah, So wait, how old are your kids now? Because that age twenty is like very much what people still are very like dialed into the to the show. Yeah, there's a whole new generation

I think dialed in. My oldest is twenty eight and my youngest is twenty two. Amazing. That's fun. Yeah, when my when my oldest was in high school, the show was on and that brought him. You know. He's like, he said to me one day, He's like, do you really have to be on that show? And I was like,

what's the problem And he's like, I don't know. I just you know, I said, Oh, are you getting scrutiny or you getting He's like yeah, And I was like, dude, if my father was on television, I wouldn't have a problem with that, But apparently he's a very like low key guy, and uh he did not, Like, you know, you don't want anybody, I don't know if you're looking into your life in a certain way, especially when it's maybe a parent. But also like, this show wasn't just

like a show where your dad's on TV. You were playing Chuck Bass's dad, Bart Bass, that's very flashy, very well known, and everyone was very obsessed with that family. So it was a very like big moment for you know, Yeah,

it was. And so you know, I've uh subsequently found that you know, it's like there's a new generation of people turning onto the show, and certainly with the pandemic, people were watching and binging and so yeah, renewed interest and uh and I think it holds up actually the truth.

So yeah, we keep finding that and each like each of these rewatches and going back and watching, we're like, Wow, there's just certain things where it was ahead of its time or a lot of storylines that people can relate to even outside of it being in this like flashy gossip Girl Upper east Side world. But I'm gonna introduce you quick, even though everyone on that the listening definitely knows your voice and your name and who you who you are, but just and because I'm just so excited

that you're here. We have Robert John Burke, who played the amazing Bart Bass, this super rich, sometimes a villain, but always complex Bart Bass on Gossip Girl. You've been in television and film for over forty years, starring in classic shows and movies and just been around in a familiar face to so many people, and so many people are such a big fans of your work on from from a show like Gossip Girl or Tombstone to Good Night and good luck shows like Rescue Me. So what

was your to acting? Why did you want to pursue It's just kind of a weird uh stumbling into it. Um, I wasn't much of a student in high school. I wasn't really passionate about anything, you know. I wasn't a good student history and English, yes, math and science is bad. And then we there was this experimental improvisation class in my high school. Um d Falco was like two years younger than me, and she was in the class with me, and so I kind of liked that. I kind of

responded to that. And then I I auditioned for scholarships at different places and and I just oh, rather than go to my senior year of high school, I travel the country with this larked regional theater. And they couldn't pay me because I was a student, but they gave me. In seventy seven, they gave me a hundred and fifty dollars in cash a day to eat with. That was my per diem. And I was like, I couldn't. I couldn't eat ten dollars worth the food, you know, a day.

So I came home with all this yea, and my dad all my sisters and brothers were in medicine. He said, what are you going to do? And I said, I'm going to be an actor, and and the three famous words where he said to me, he goes, A fucking what And I said an actor and he goes, we don't do that. We don't even know anybody who does that. I said, well, I'm gonna try. He said, can you

go to school for that? And I said yes, And I went to a couple of different colleges, but then I settled at Sunni Purchase, which had a really strong acting conservatory, and yes, I graduated from there. And then I actually took five years away from acting. I was a contractor. I was school teacher. That's incredible. I didn't know you were a school teacher. I knew about being a firefighter. Well, no, that came later. I was a

security guy at a club called Nels years ago. And so then a guy I went to college with named Hal Hartley. He was doing independent films. He was going to shoot his first and he said, would you like to, you know, do the lead? And I was like, yeah, sure. I was built being a deck down on the battery for a client. And I said, how long is this going to take? You said eleven days. I was like, oh, you know, that's a long time. So we did it and then Mirramax bought it and I went on a

publicity thing and that was thirty six years ago. So I've been really lucky just in terms of swimming in the middle in my career and always working, you know, and I like the autonomy of being able to do what I want. You know. It's like, you can't play a cyborg robot. Sure I can, you know, or you can't play. So nobody really cared what I did, which was fun because I got to do different things. But that's also why they really did care because you know, yeah,

I guess because I'm meaning how talented you are. Well, No, I've been, like I said, lucky. I think my luck is the residue of just preparation, you know, just being super prepared. That goes back to the conservatory training, never being late, trying to be early, even for technical things like this, which inevitably screw up on my end. It was like, how do I know you were good? Because trust me, you were fine. So yeah, that's how I fell and I kind of just fell into it. I

was supposed to be a police officer. My parents were both from Ireland. We were raised in Washington Heights in Manhattan. So if you were like first generation Irish, like being a firefighter wasn't even held up to you. Just you're gonna You're gonna be a police officer and that's all there is to it. And I was like, okay, so I avoided that. I play a lot of police officers. But yeah, I was lucky. I was lucky to be

an artist. I was lucky. Just so. I love your whole story and and like how you fell into it or got into it, or how you it became a passion of yours in a way, and how you did all these other jobs that you know, probably you learned so much from as an actor, but are also really great in life. You know. Yeah, I mean to be a firefighter. And the firefighter came in in two thousand and two. My best friend was a fire captain in the city who fell one and that really hurt me.

That hurt everybody, obviously on a geopolitical scale. So I thought to myself, what can I do, Like, what can I do a p I'm not doing something bullshitty, And you know, signing a check and saying that I'm going to do something. I'm going to dedicate my life to his memory. And that's what I did. I took you know,

in the volunteer Fire Service seventy percent. I think of the country's volunteer and after nine eleven, you know, Osha, them, Homeland Security, everybody piled on with all the certification and so you know, gone where the days when old Jimmy will show you what to do. And we have a tremendous academy here in Suffo County, Long Island. The instructors are all f D and Y guys, so you're getting

great instruction and it's a passion. That's another passion that is so incredible though, Robert, I never thought I would have the opportunity to do this, and I've been doing it for twenty years now, so it's been great. That is beautiful. Yeah, I'm like, wow, I need to do are just volunteer and you just yeah, did you have a new little one? I do. I have a little little baby girl eighteen months. Congratulations a little Well, it's

a life changing, amazing enough. Well thanks for two years. Yeah, yeah, wow, I know, it's it's so life changing and amazing. And that's also kind of why I decided to do this this podcast one, because the fans were so good and really, you know, love this show so much and gave so much support to us to the way they responded and acted to it. And I had a new baby and I was like, maybe I can do this with this production team and my heart and still be able to be by my baby girl instead of road so much

with her. But yeah, so this ended up working out. But I think it's wild when you're talking about all these You played police officers a lot, and you know your firefighter, and then on Gossip Girl you play this millionaire this you know and I have a We had a lot of people right in asking did Robert model Bart bass on any real life millionaire or ceo. No, I'm gonna be very candid and say that I had trouble playing that character. Of all the characters I've ever played,

I had the most trouble playing him. And the only reason was because I kind of my upbringing in our lives when I was young was so modest. Okay, like what would I say modest? Like we didn't have a lot of money, I mean modest and so there was some part of me as an artist that just didn't buy me as a billionaire, you know what I mean? And no, I don't know, because you did such a good job, like maybe he was insecure. Maybe Bart was. I mean, guys who have that much money and really

need to um. There's an old saying he was an ego maniac with an inferiority complex. You know, there's that conflict always inside. But you know, I would have done a lot differently, I think now when I look back at hindsight, what do you mean though? You know, oh gosh, I'm not going to be speaking or or bemoaned or anything. But I just sometimes I look at some of the performances, I said, well, why were you doing that? You should have just done nothing. You should have just like you

were pushing or you know what I mean. I just I don't know. I never had a full comfortable sense of the carrot. Well, no that's not true. That's overstating it. But I could have been more comfortable playing him. I was uncomfortable. I don't know. It's hard to say. I find that so interesting though, because it came across to so many people. Anyone that watches it this, you know, to me, you were that millionaire that's CEO. And when people were writing in to ask that question, like did

he base anyone off of I didn't. I wasn't sure because I'm like, he might have went and dug super deep into some CEO you know that we all know of, because you just played it so well, the way you wore the suit, the way you talked. There was one guy, um, actually, Ian Schrager. He's an hotel here and at restaurant tour and I watched him once in a restaurant and just the way he held himself and looked I thought, oh, oh yeah, people work for that dude. And he was

very relaxed and very graceful. I should say, Um, twice I was in an elevator where someone drunk got in and said to me, Mr Schrager, I worked for you once, and it's like, I'm the guys like fifteen years older, but him, I did. Yeah. I thought he had like a kind of an elan and you know, just this like a masterful kind of poiser. So no, nobody specifically, nobody specifically, right, Yeah, I just I felt like that.

And even your relationship with Chuck and how that affects, you know, Chuck's how he interacts with people and his behavior and his kind of like insecurities and things like that. I feel like, we're so he did such a great job playing Chuck, but I think it was played off of how you brought part to life and such a in such a way that it was bleeding into Chuck's storylines.

And we used to laugh when they yell cut. You know, I'd say something really like really hurtful to him and and he'd teld me to go, you know, f off, and they'd say cut, and we just start laughing, and it would be like fucking bost at Jesus uh, because what we're doing is we're commenting on the writing and how hurtful and how destructive and how dysfunctional, and of course Chuck's the way he is, you know what I mean.

I mean it was just so it was deep and it was there was definitely dark moments where I was like, that's like hard. And I do feel like there's layers of that relationship of it kind of shows where it's like, okay, they they this kid drives a limo and can you know they have a private investigator on speed dial. I mean that's wild. Yeah, but that's the way those guys operate. I mean there's family fixers and you know, uh, we clean up the mess and me it ly and we

pay very handsomely for it. So a lot of that running true, especially in um oh Brother where Bart though. I think he had that fixer, Yeah, Andrew Tyler. I think his name was, I can't remember his name. Yeah he was yeah, yeah, I think he was your p I and that's yeah. And then Ed tried to go or Chuck tried to go by him to say, hey, what what did my what did my dad want from you? Before he got in the car to go get Lily.

And even the fixer for a price gives up the you know, it's like everything, everything is mercenary, everything is capitalistic, you know, and every man for himself. So I think Chuck gets what he wants, and the fixer guy he

gets the money. And but yeah, Chuck, uh, Ed had his work cut out for him, just in terms of yeah, in general, in general, his mother dies early, his father kind of blames him for it, and yeah, always in the father's shadow, you when you contemplate that, of course he's going to be kind of a mess trying to struggle and scratch his way out of that. Yeah, but Ed did great and was it was like so compelling. You know, he had this this smoldering like he's going

to explode him it. Yeah, he was. He was terrific and then you know, with an American accent and you'd

all cut and then he'd have this British accent. I thought he just did a terrific job at all times, you know, I agree absolutely, And and his there's almost like there's a humor in his and Blair's storyline too, because they're like so ridiculous with each other, but yet you want them together so badly, and there's something to be said to now even talking to you, like he has this girl in front of him that loves him so much and they don't want to say it to

each other, and then she kind of finally does. But he needs to pull away, like he he doesn't want to put all of his walls down and be vulnerable. And you can't blame him because of you know, him thinking it was his fault that his mom died. Now his you know, right right around now in these rewatches, now his dad died and he's you know, blaming Lily, blaming Dan, blaming everyone. And you know it's something that CC, the grandmother says at the funeral. It's okay for him

to feel any type of way today. I mean, he just lost his dad. But let me ask you this, what did you know, like early on that this was going to happen or was this all of a sudden You got a script and you're like, oh, Bart's getting in an accident. Joe Lazarov came up to me because I got a minute. It's like yeah, So no, they came to me. I've had over the years, like in different shows, people call me and say, did you get

to page thirty five? I get hit by a bus and I'm like, well, you're nobody on this show unless you come back as a ghost. Okay, you know what I mean, Like, uh, but yeah, Joe, Joe, one of the producers, Joe Lazarov, beautiful guy, came up to me, go, um, you're gonna die. It's like okay, So I said, you know, gracefully and yeah um and he said yes, and are you okay with that? And I said, uh, you know, as my wife would say, write your own show. I said, I have to be okay with that. I've had fun.

I was doing two other shows at the time, or three even um and I would do this kind of triangle, you know, go from one show to the other, and it kept life interesting and kept art interesting. But he said, but we don't know if you really did. And I was like, okay, you know, like when you figure that out, let me know. And then he obviously came back and had faked his death and and all that. But yeah, No,

they were very forthcoming. When I was killed that time or what was it, died in a car accident, I think, yeah, so they production and the producer did come to me and tell him, tell me what was going to happen. So I did know when you were first becoming Bart, like in the very you know, when Barts first introduced and you were meeting with Eric Damon and things like that, did you right away because everyone is so obsessed and like so grateful for how talented Eric was to you know,

put all of our costumes and stuff together. Did you right away feel like everything that was pulled for for Bart was just right on point because he looks so elegant, so ceo, millionaire, billionaire, handsome. I think Eric would agree that I had really good wardrobe, karma stuff fit. It was his palette and and he say, what do you think? And I usually agree. He is a master. He was a complete artist. I would not want to have had

his job on this show. No, No, I mean I show up with my one or two choices, you know, in terms of my acting, but he has to have you know, endless, endless. But he was terrific. He was just effortless options and yeah, just he was terrific. And he did. Everyone looked so so different. I mean, I know that's part of it because it's all different characters, but not really like in a show like this, a lot of people could have, you know, had similar styles.

This everyone was very different, you know it it was, and I think it helped everyone bring their their characters. And I never, I don't remember ever seeing something where you say to yourself, ridiculous doesn't work. Never, either it was the actor or actress who was selling it and making it work beautifully because of their character or but I don't recall anybody whereas you know, you sit there as a as a a fan or just watching go Up does totally doesn't work totally. It never not worked.

I mean, no matter who showed up wearing what, it looked great. I always thought, so that was Eric's artistry. I think I thought it was so great. Did you like filming in New York? I mean, I know you had before, and oh yeah, you learn that's I was. I was the local. I mean I loved it. I could come home, I could coach basketball, I could coach little league. I loved it. It was a ten amount to nine to five. We shot at the Palace Hotel a lot, and I remember that time he brought me

up to this room at the top. It was, you know, a guest lounge that no one ever used, that had its own chef and its own barista. And this was for the hotel. And and the owner of the hotel said, so, you're the actor playing the owner of the hotel. I said yes, And he jokingly handed me a bunch of his cards, and he's like, I'm leaving for an hour. You know you're you're in charge. So one time his assistant came to me and said, Ms. Burkan said, would you like to just relax up? I said yeah, I

didn't know where I was going. And he brought me to this lounge and you know, big buffet and overlooking the city, and I was up there. I was up there for like, I don't know, three or four months. And then one day Chase and Ed come happening into the room where they're like, you fuck when you've been up here the whole star And I was like, oh, dude, you know what's up. We're sitting down in our trailers.

You know what's going on. I was like, yeah, you know, you just punched two two two four and today, yeah, you'll be and we were laughing, and then you know, the secret was at So that was only when we were on location at the Palace Hotel. But it was fun. It's always fun to to shoot in New York. Albeit there were the young kids who would show up on the set and that was daunting, I think sometimes for production. And I remember one time it was either Chase or

Red or pen and something. They opened their camper door and the kids who were outside let out this shriek that was allah, you know, the Beatles kind of shriek. And I was like, oh, that's what that sounds like, you know, in real life. And so, you know, another aspect of shooting in New York and the fact that they were using social media to say hey, gossip or shooting on you seven and second or wherever we were at the time, and we'd skip around down to Soho,

Upper East, Upper West, you know, the museums. It was fun, it was it was fun. Yeah, I learned. I mean it became like my favorite city. But I also was like, before I ever did the show, I wasn't well traveled. I didn't have the money to to travel. So when people would be like, oh my god, New York is just it's the best city in the world. There's something so special and magical and the energy, I'd be like, okay, cool. Yeah. And then when we got to do this show, I

and then I got to travel more. I got it when we were there, I'm like, wow, this really is something. There's something very special here. But then when I went to other cities around the world that were also beautiful in their own way and special, they didn't have this energy that New York has. There's something very different about New York. And then I understood it that one day I'm like I was in Europe and I'm like, Okay,

this is awesome and beautiful in its own way. But now I completely understand the hundreds of people that told me New York is its own thing. You're exactly right, And I feel the exact same way no matter where you go. And we were lucky too, because this was pre you know, pandemic and all the stuff that's happening now, all this stuff, it was really, uh, you know, when we look back, a really special time and yeah, so so to have experienced it in that way, um, certainly

it was special, so special. Speaking of filming around the city and all that, where some are your favorite storylines because watching these and the fact that we were doing twenty two episodes and just the spider webs of all the intertwining situations and relationships and all the stuff that just kept going and going and going. I mean, it's just so crazy. Even in the episodes that I'm at right now and the rewatch I get to the end and I'm like, I feel like, now, that would be

like four episodes of a show on HBO. This was one episode of twenty two. You know what you're so they packed so achin. They packed it in like you were on the steps of the Metropolitan. You were here, you were there, you were in the loft, you were back out of the loft, you were at some amazing gala, you were back. You know, it was a lot of production value for a show runner, for a cast and crew. But you're right, so I was just because there's always

so much. I'm like, how do you even pick a storyline? Or I'm sure you had so much fun working with Kelly because she's just such a lovely person. But was there anything, anything in particular, it was one of your favorite storylines that kind of stick out, maybe not your favorite because it's so hard when there were so many. I mean, even where I'm at and the rewatches there there's someone who dies, there's a potential, you know, a

new relationship that comes to life. Um, someone's possibly pregnant, someone else's tells them they love each other. I'm like, this is all in one hour. I rewatched a Brother where Bart thou and and I had the exact same impression. So so Bart dies and it's his funeral, but Serena's going to Brazil. Who's the new guy? Is okay with it? Rufus is like angling the information dropped, Jenny's making address for for the Jenny's Margaret and Wallace are getting married. Yeah,

meanwhile Whillace, his son is the one dating Serena. That's right, and this is all within Yes, it's a lot. That were two minutes. You were getting your money's worth out of that show. For sure. It's an interesting observation that perhaps they don't pack so much in that you could have gotten three or four episodes, you know, in a

modern day episodic. But no, it was. It was fun because it was like, you know, when that opening narrative would happen, you were pretty much obliged to like, you know, tighten your seatbelt because you know, you don't know where. Yeah, it was, and it was. It was a total and it was gonna look great and it was gonna you know, the visual in terms of the you know, shooting on

location was going to be great. So it was definitely going to be It's rawling for people who are wondering what that lifestyle was, like I suppose yeah, And I feel like because there was it was so flashy. But then I really feel like, especially going back, everyone just did such a great job with their with their roles. Like you know, I know everyone listening has has heard this many times in these episodes but you know, these dynamics and the little humor and just just they did

so good. So it was not just like about going in and watching this teen drama or just watching New York City as a character in there. Everyone really brought something super special to it. And maybe you know, at the time, there was nothing like this on TV, you know, and even when you went back to different shows like nine O two one oh Beverly Hills, it's still there's a different flavor and vibe because of New York City.

You know. It's like acting when you when you understand your character and everything, and then you're asked to just throw it away. So here you have these characters, these situations against the backdrop of New York which is its own character in the drama, and yet you're asked to throw in a way like you know, you hail that cab, or you walk up those museum steps or you know whatever it is. You know, it's you wear it loosely like a like a garment, and you're comfortable with it.

So that I think everything like complimented everything, you know, in just in terms of advancing the story, but again like really cemented these actors were in their characters. You know, Blair very complex, Serena very complex in her own way, you know it very consistent in terms of who she is as a person. And then when she does have conflict, you really see it, do you know what I mean? In lieu of the money, in lieu of the fashion, in lieu of the environment, she's still somebody you would

want to have as a friend. And then Blair mercurial all. You know, I just Laten's acting. I always just enamored and obviously Blake too, but they really just I I just um just so compelling to watch them read the phone Book to tell you the truth right, and and the way they play off each other because they are their characters are so different, like on paper, you wouldn't put them as best friends almost, you know what I mean, totally buy that they were together forever, that they really

are friends. And that's kind of It's very unique sometimes because other well for me, for you were actors. We we read into things, but they had an effortless relationship. It was just so complimentary and uh it was it was awesome. It was awesome to watch, you know, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, how what are your thoughts of Chuck and Blair's relationship. Chuck was his own worst enemy. He he wanted the love, but he just to me, it just seemed like he didn't know how to get there,

you know what I mean. Blair is like, I'm here, I'm here. He's like, I know, I just don't know how to get there. And once I'm there, I don't know how to stay there because he didn't have the tools. You know, his mother was gone, his father was a jerk. Uh tumble, tumble tumble, so he never he was never given those tools. He never saw it in his home.

There's a Shakespeare speech, you know, I spy a far off shore where I would wish to be, and I yell at the seed that keeps me from it, you know what I mean, I just don't know how to get there. And and she's like the siren going he come here, come here, and he's like, I know, but I just I just don't know how to get there. Because I'm my own worst enemy. I was never shown you know what true love is and uh and and

they just tore it up. They just totally tore it up in terms of playing that that dance of going back and forth and wanting to like they wanted each other, but they wanted to tell each other no even though they really didn't want to say no. If that makes sense? Is there any better? Is there any better kind of love? I mean, you know, that's where the passion comes. It's like tearing piece of paper, one pieces going one way or the other. And that sound you here in the

middle is like is somebody's heart. It's like every time they would do that, it was just you know, just just like you know, I'm a grown man and yet I'm sitting here going, oh, maybe it's tonight, you know, I like, yeah, but you know it's It's sweet because I think everybody on whatever level of whatever kind of relationship you've ever had, elementally you identify with some aspect of their relationship. But the writing was impossibly good for

those two. I must say that also. It was so on point, and the way they did it was also like just nothing was missing for that. It kept you going even even now, like right around where I'm at, they're still like not fully together, and I'm like any other show or any other characters, i'd be like over watching it. But they did such a good job that

I'm like, I could keep doing this. You know, I I rewatched brother ware art or Barta And at the limo when she's like when she says, I love you and I mean Layton, just the simplicity, you know what I mean, she's she was such a great actress that she would let you do the crying. It was just the simplicity of it. I'm here and before you and again, you know, in lieu of the fashion, in lieu of the setting, in lieu of the limo, and and none of that matters. Well, the only thing that matters is

her love for Forred of her Chuck. She says to him, we're Chuck and Blair. Blair and Chuck. The worst thing you've ever done, the darkest thought you've ever had. I will stand by you through anything. I mean. And he says, and why would you do that? Why would you do that? Because I love you? And he says, I'm no, don't tell me. Well that's too bad, too bad, you see, that's just that's just immaturity. That's someone who who doesn't

have the tools, he's going to push away. The reason people do that is fear, as as as as animals as we're gonna fight, we're gonna run or we're gonna do nothing, and he he pushes her away because he's afraid. He It's it's almost like telling him, Chuck, I know your dad just died. I know you have all this stuff on your shoulders. Oh would you mind jumping off this cliff and fall in love with this girl. He's not going to do it because he just doesn't trust

himself or life. Life just kept kicking in the teeth, so he's developed no trust. And uh, but the writing there, that's what I meant. I didn't write like that for Bart I'll tell you. Uh, you know, that was just the simplicity, the beauty, the poetry in it. It was just really kind of neat. It was. And if you're a young gall or guy or whatever watching the show, yeah, let me just as a sidebar, say, I've had like a lot of young guys like I guess they'd be

in their thirties. Oh dude, gos girl. Yeah, I love the show. Like really, good for you, Good for you for saying you know, yeah, did you have people come up to you and say, you know, I know someone who was based off your character? You're based off my dad's character. Because I found people in New York for saying that to all everyone all the time. And we're like, it was off of a book, you know, based off a book. The books were written books I had friends

of mine. I never read the books. Actually was it books or book? It was books? Yeah, books, and I never read them. And you know, people would tell me things like, oh, Chuck's character had a monkey, and I'm like, we see, that's why I'm not reading it. Um. But you know what, I can't say that somebody ever said. It's been a while too. But yeah, But speaking of like, you know, storylines and working with you know, some of the other casts, what was it like and what were

some of your favorite storylines with Kelly? Because that's heavily with Kelly, and any storyline with Kelly was fun. She's she was this lovely human being, do you know what I mean? Mature, graceful, gorgeous, prepared looks you in the I a kind of acting, do you know what I mean? And I used to love to play with her, you know what I mean just in terms of like, well, my acting teach and once said, because I was getting so serious, he goes, why do you think they call

it a play? And I was like, Okay, yeah, that's what we're doing. We're playing. So to play off off of her, to play opposite her, it was just so much fun. You were you knew you were gonna you knew you were going to just achieve something in the scene, and it just felt very good as an as an actor to be opposite somebody like that. So she was lovely and any you know, any time I was I would say anytime I was acting with Kelly Rutherford was

a good day. We would have these galas where this there would be these great things going on and she and I would be having some kind of conflict or resolution of conflict. There was always duplicity. There was always some type of you know, hidden agenda, and I like that because when there's more than one thing going on, it just makes it more interesting for the actor, hopefully for the But she was great any any I don't specific can't speak specifically to any one storyline, but pretty

much any storyline with her was just fun. You know.

I have a question about this. There was a couple episodes ago with might have been I can't even remember which episode now, but Eric has a boyfriend in the episode and you're having some big party again at the vander Woodson Loft, and you kind of tell the boyfriend you know, I'm not sure if you want to come or not come, And you know, we kind of talked about it, like do we think you were doing that to actually protect Eric and the boyfriend so that it

didn't come out publicly for their sake or was Bart kind of doing it to cover for Bart? Because I was like, I don't think. I think he was doing it to protect the kids in a sense of like you it should be on you, guys, and this is just I mean, this is all about a story in the in a in a TV show, so we don't

really know the answer. But I was wondering if you even remember that episode or like what you thought of that, because I think I think Bart, as much as he was hard and stuff like that, I do feel like he had a big heart. There's a lot of times I'm like, Oh, he's doing a really great thing and then you go and pull some dossiers out on the family and have this whole you know, you know, everyone's secrets and stuff. But then you would do something where

I'm like, Wow, he's being he is sweet. He just has a hard exterior kind of like Chuck, Yeah, you know, if you're playing in New York billionaire, um, and I think he was a billionaire. I think it's that he was a billionaire, not a billionaire. Anyway, it speaks to your having some sophistication, your worldly you're accepting, you're accepting of someone's sexual orientation. However, what you're not accepting of is anything that could damage the family name and the

family fortune. You're also being patriarchal in terms of these kids don't know what they're talking about. They're leaving themselves exposed to ridicule, to bigotry, and so there could have been an element of that. I never specifically new. I think I was. I was protecting the family and myself visa V telling them, you guys are not on time right now. You gotta at this be a little more chill, because you don't want to hurt yourselves, you don't want

to hurt the family. So I think his motives are a lot more selfish and self serving than they are altruistic, and like, oh, I'm accepting of your sexual orientation, and I don't think there's much of that, although you know, I think it's all about the bottom line and the company right, and and again speaking of working with everyone, what about how how is that? How is the love try and go? Basically is what I'm trying to ask with you with you Rufus? And and how was it

working with Matt Matthew and that? Like I know, because if you guys couldn't have played two more like total opposite characters. Yeah, I mean like in real life, I'm more like the Rufus guy. I never had the money, and I was like, hey, you guys got a nice personality, maybe you should go out with it. Um it was fun because you knew it. Just it just creates tension and dynamic and conflict. And these are the things like you don't have to you didn't have to manufacture it.

If Rufus came into the room, I would wristle, do you know what I mean? It just bristled, like like no words even in my head. I would just want to like just send out Prana to to get rid of him. You know, he so threatened me. And the fact that he didn't have money, and you know, they'd say like, oh, he comes from Brooklyn, you know, like like Brooklyn was some filthy place you know as if

you could afford to live in Williamsburg these days. But at the same time, right exactly, so that that conflict was built in and it was fun as hell, and why part of me, part of Robert Berkeley's why I couldn't literally have both, I mean really, but yeah, she was great the way she would pain of what kind of what her and I talked about last week. Oh,

really like her head and her practicality. You know, she wants the dough and she wants like the good life, but you know what, maybe she wants to love too. So it's like, you know, good for literally for keeping all possible options open to when we get the phone call or when we see that there's a phone call on something really dramatic has happened or tragic has happened

to Bart. That's like a devastating thing. As a viewer, I feel like watching because now I'm dialed in removed from the show years later, and I'm like, wait, Bart can't leave. This is like not okay, Yeah it was. It was kind of weird. Yeah, And and again I don't know if they were onto something back then, like oh, if you do, you know, kind of kill off someone that everyone enjoys watching whether people didn't agree with some of the things you did as a dad and stuff

like that. That makes a show interesting still though, you know what I mean, watching colors that you were bringing to the scenes with Ed and with Lily and Rufus. But it was now people are killing off main characters, you know, season one and a show. So to me, I'm like, were they doing this for you know, a shock value to you know, have everyone's mouth drop even more so than they were the entire episode. I was

still like that he can't he can't go away. You know, it was weird to me, and it was it still kind of is weird in the story was they throw Bart on the sword. Okay, now that said shock waves, you know what I mean. But then they have Bart back and then they throw him on the sword again, and I was like, why are they I'm the old guy on this like kids show. It's like, why have I that you know, the crucible that upon which you know, the drama gets shattered and the repercussions are felt thereof um,

I didn't mind. I I understood that for what it's going to do to Chuck, this is going to have lasting repercussions, and and so you know, as an actor, I've been around long enough to know to appreciate every moment I'm on the set, and then to say to myself, you know, if this should continue, great, If it doesn't, that's fine too. So when when Bart had to go, Bart had to go, you know, I go onto the next thing. And I'm always very grateful for having been but I could see the wisdom in it in terms

of making the drama that much more compelling. You know, people are texting, oh, Chuck's dad is dead. I'll tell you a funny story that combines my fire service with Gossip Girl. We had a false alarm in a hotel. The hotel is emptying out. People are in their pajamas. These girls are in their pajamas, and I'm walking in with the hook like the big pole and the water can.

I have all my gear on. And as I'm walking into the hotel, this girl is like she's two inches from my face, walking past me, and she looks at me. She goes, she goes, are you Chuck's dad? And I looked at her so quickly. I looked at her, and I literally a fire happening and that's her question. So you Chucks. And I look at her and I go, Chuck's dad is dead. And I keep walking and she was like all right. She starts screaming and she like kind of tripped and and fell, and her girlfriend's caught

her and she's pointing in my direction. She's like it's and and her. I can hear the converse the friends. What do you mean? What are you talking about? You know, Sharon? Are you okay? Whatever? And and so finally I saw her on the outside by the fire truck. I came around the opposite end. She could never see me again, and I left, you know what I mean. But when she said to me, are you Chuck's dad, like just like that, and I said, Chuck's dad is dead, like immediately,

she just freaked. Anyway, So I always remember that one. By the way, did everyone everyone was okay in that fire? There's no fire. It's just a false alarm. We were just emptying out, you know. It's like, oh a FUSSI alarm. Okay, that is hilarious, automatic alarm. And that happens like over the years, like you'll show up and they're like, hey, you look like the guy from Special But whatever. And so when I first started, you're a schnook if you

don't say, oh hello, you speak to the people. And then other firefights like dude, we're like twenty minutes like getting back because you're like, I'm like, dude, you're the one who told them that. And so now if somebody says, wait, wait, is that the guy and and my guys they'll say, oh, no, no no, he looks just like that guy. Yeah no, yeah, no, that's not him. It looks just like him. He looks just like bar Pass, but it's not him. Um, a guy one night leaning on the side of the road,

he's like, are you Mickey from Rescuing me? And I was like, I said, it's three thirty in the morning. I was driving the ambulance. I said, if I was Mickey from Rescue, why would I be here with you? And he goes, wow, he goes, you look just like him. And he goes and you sound like him too. It's like, oh god, yeah, it happens. But I'm sure you know that is just hilarious. Are you Chuck's dad? No, Chuck's

dad is dead. And she just she just her hands went up to her face and started shaking like shaking. It was. It was so weird. And then she was trying the poor thing. She was trying to explain what she had seen to her friends, and they were just thinking, something's wrong with this something is wrong with this girl. Yeah, and it was really bad. I wish I could just shook. I wish a videotape of that. That would have been.

But anyway, hilarious, that is that is funny. It's it's this show just affected so many of the fans in such a way like it's actually quite sweet and you know, but that's wild. There's an alarm going off and that happened. Oh my goodness. I think I think that, like Serena and Blair their relationship, just I think there was just

so much identification with it for two girls, girls at age. Yeah, for girls at age, even irrespective of their affluence, because the things they went through were just relevant and identifiable at any you know, well, yeah, yeah, I really think that. And you wanted to know that that these things have somehow you were finding out that these things happen with rich kids, poor kids, you know, and how they navigate their world and their problems are just as real as

anybody else. A relative and real. Yeah, and it was there was so many things. It was like their relationship and their competitiveness, sometimes as best friends and then having each other's backs and betraying each other but yet still being each other's number one fan. And then you know, mixed families and divorce and death, and it was it was all there. It was all there, and how did they how did they get through it? And it was usually like, well, I think that's Serena's part, just honestly,

you know what I mean. She was always very honest, opened and fourth right, she was not very duplicitous a lot of the time. And if you pushed her and like bothered her, she was going to push back and stand up for herself. So there was a sense of self worth. And you know, Blair was always a little more mercurial and duplicitus somehow, but always wound up understanding the lesson or you know, in life. And I just thought, you want to talk about two actresses, two actors, actually

I should say who stepped into these roles? I mean glove Fit day one, Yeah, from the pilot, Yeah, from the pilot. It's just so it's so strange, it's beautiful, to see actually, yeah, it's great. Yeah, And and then even to like what the how different the three guys were. I mean, you take you know, Dan to Chase, to to Chuck, Dan, Nate to Chuck. It's this kid from Brooklyn.

And then you still have these two rich kids and you know a lot of family stuff going on, but there was a softness to Nate, like internally and externally. And then there you know, them playing best friends. I mean, they just did a great job. And then you kind of had, you know, Jenny and I from Brooklyn, one wanting to fit into that world so so badly, one not wanting to and not getting it. So there was

that piece to the puzzle over here. And then I really thought even and Kelly and I were just talking about this last week, the dynamic of the parents so to speak. You know, we were all adults at that point, but I mean, they're still so young. But that the parents in the show, they really did a good the humanity, like what they did in all of the relationships there were great even to the relationships with the kids, their kids and their stepkids and each other and their parents.

Like Lily's relationship with CC is a whole another thing, you know. C C. I think was only in about ten episodes, and she's so memorable. She's she makes to presents. It's wild. I looked that up the other day and I was like, well, she must have been and it was I think it was ten or something twelve. It was something shocking because it felt like it was like a couple of seasons and it wasn't even a full season. Yeah, you must have done like quite a few. Yeah. I mean I was in in and out like I was

ten of thirteen for four and a half seasons. Yeah, but I mean some of the episodes Robert I had come in and you know, go hand Nate a letter and then like leave. Yeah, no, I believe me. I used to call those the perfect crime, you know, because I was getting paid whether I was there one scene or forty two scenes, to get paid the same. So it was a trip and I'd be liking to make on the beach sometimes on my God, I know, the

perfect crime. We call it rescue me. Once I had one word and and my buddy Lenny had one word, and it was like din Sleary's characters up on top of the bridge and we're like Tommy, no, he says Tommy, and I say no, and we did it four times and that was it, and he looked at me said

perfect crime. See you in the next episode. I was like, dude, wild, Yeah, I was just gonna say it just was all you know this, this is why I love doing this podcast, because just talking to you is bringing back different feelings and memories of the show. And also what's really neat is you are character has never really worked together. There was probably you know, one or two or you know,

a dozen gallons galas. I mean that we were probably you know, my character had just walked out, well Bart walked in or something, and we you know, we crossed in the makeup room or something, but there wasn't a lot that Vanessa and Bart. I don't think Bart spoke to Vanessa. Yeah, I really don't think so either. So, I mean, I know you and I talked on set and you playing you know, Chuck's dad. You were there

a lot, and we've definitely crossed. But it's just so nice to like hear and talk to you about because even when we were doing the show, if you and I had a conversation on on set, we weren't sitting and talking about our characters and about what we're on. You know, what you have to where are you? You know? Yeah, what are you doing in New York? Is it fun? Yeah? It is. It is interesting to hear it, and you know, and because we're so removed, it's been so long that

it's kind of like different things come up. I'm like, you know what I felt. Kind of I didn't know I felt this way about Vanessa until now, or I didn't know that I liked Blair and Chuck so much, or you know, there's like a soft spot I have for Bart. So it's it's kind of interesting too, like there's there's something that I think when I returned to

the show, I can't remember. It was like the fourth season, at the very end, and Blake said, oh, I heard you didn't like this show, And I said, what she said, I think that's what somebody said, And you know what, I I really thought long and hard about that. What I had shared with a couple of people was certainly not that I didn't buy the show, but they didn't buy me on it. That's what I think she heard, and that hurts that. I was like, I felt bad. I was like, oh, you know what, maybe I should

not even share that with anybody. But like going back to the beginning of our conversation, I always had this like nagging like, oh, why you know, never with the character and not that we're never satisfied with anything. But I I when I look back on the way I trained art, I thought, oh, you're pushing you know, and and I don't know, maybe it's just over speaking it. But anyway, yeah, I I always felt that that she had gotten like, you know, misinformation. Yeah, you know, that's

the game of telephone. Yeah, someone accidentally said something else. But because listen, somebody said to me, oh, you don't like gospel, I said, are you out of your mind? I'm wearing a beautiful suit, i have a drink in my hand, and I'm talking with beautiful women. What the hell are you? And I'm getting paid and like my c in New York City, I'm home, I'm coaching, I'm with my boys. And I said, there, if there's a

downside here, I don't know what it is. You know, never having never having you know, heavy heavy dialogue or heavy schedule. And I've been on shows where people have been like worked into the ground and their health is compromise and stuff like that. So for me it was just ideal. I come in, I touched the door, I put on this beautiful suit and h and everyone. I mean, honestly,

you did so great with bart like you can't. I mean now, at this point, it's just implanted in our head, like your face, your body, your tone of your voice, the way you know you had hit the walk. So we obviously all of us, the cast or the fans or viewers watching, you can't picture anyone else playing them. But you know, us as artists were always our own worst critic. Like you know, I say that sometimes you can watch it, you know something back, Sometimes I don't

like watching stuff I do. But I said it was like watching a soccer game. Back, I could have taken the ball all the way up and crossed it and passed it beautifully or scored, and I still will be like, why I should have passed it, you know, took one step less. So we're our own worst critics. So it's you know that I totally understand you you thinking about that in that way, But me telling you as like a colleague or a friend or someone who you know,

me working with you. You made so many people happy from the studio, to the people watching, even your co stars like Kelly speaks so highly of you and Ed speaks so highly of you. So but I also think when we're hard on ourselves and think, oh, we should play this, I think it also helps us grow. But an acting coach one said to me too, don't be too hard on yourself. But don't ever think you just

knocked it out of the park either. So I'm like, okay, yeah, and very very rarely when I think that you or I would think that we not get out of a park. It's just not I don't know if I've ever really had that. It's not the nature of what we do. It's art, and you're going to have a good day with it or you're gonna have a bad day. Because that's like even with auditioning and things like that, I'd always say to myself, good day or bad day, no big deal. It's just art. And some days the painting

turns out well and some days not so good. And it also depends on who's looking at the painting because it's so you know, so subjectively one thinks it totally totally and m but we're just so lucky to get to do it. You know. That's what my bottom line has always been. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I tell the story.

I was on Gossip Girl day long day, sixteen hour day gala, and you know how they keep reapplying makeup, pancake, pancake, you know, and a little anti shine, and so I had eighty layers of this stuff on and I got home. I didn't even wash my face. I have to my car. I drove home and a fire alarm happened, and I got to the station and then I hoped in the truck and this firefighter sitting opposite me, and he was gonna ask you a question, and I go, yeah, yeah,

we're on the way to a legitimate fire. And he goes, he goes, do you have makeup on? And I go yeah yeah, and he goes, oh yeah yeah, yeah no right, like that's what you do, right, yeah, yeah yeah. And I thought to myself, who in their career is ever gonna like be in the situation. It was just so funny the way he said it. And then he tried to like back off, but he's like, well, yeah, that's what you do, right. It's like to dot and in his shoes. You can't blame him for thinking that's like

me and looking at me and look at me. It's like, bro, do you have like makeup? And I was like, yeah, I got tons of makeup. Um. But anyway, another little funny sidebar of both of those lives intersecting. Yeah, you know, looking at old brother ware bart out again. Yeah, and the masonsm the whole scene of the funeral or at the graveyard, and you know, I've seen a lot of pictures of Gossip Girl and Gallus, but there was something about what people were wearing that was just so iconic

to me. It was so I hate to use the expression it was a funeral, but everybody looked everybody looked so fucking cool. The style is timeless. I'd wear whatever anybody was wearing today. It was just going back to Eric. He was really iconic. And that was just so that was such a home run the Black Loves. It was just everything. But so Ei don't looked great. They looked beautiful. I mean they look like off a runway going to It was just it was fantastic. It was fantastic. But

you would expect nothing less. Well, yeah, there you are. You know, although you know what now that you say at one folk pah. I couldn't stand it. And Eric went to the wall at Lily and Bart's wedding and he made me wear tails. And I said, Eric, Eric, listen to me, listen to me, and I said, I'm not tall enough for tells me. He said, you have

to wear tails. I was like, why, why, why can't I wear just like a you know, a cocktail jacketer or a tucks or They said no, it has to be tales and I said, please please, And in my head Robert Burke the actor, told himself that unless you're like six ft two or three or four, tails are just you know, not happening. And I had to wear the tails, and I was just like, oh, this is awful, this is all. Did you end up loving it? And ya? No, I never was. The one thing I hated him for

it was the tails. But I was like, I feel like Liberaci, oh my god, please please don't and he's like, they want this, They've approved it. Everything is. I was like, okay, for you all, do it, but well you you're also you were and are still in such good shape, so you those suits didn't just fit because they were like fitted to you and they are brilliant amazing, very detailed suits.

You also the way they fit your body, because you you you have a great not to make it weird, to be weird, you're very You're in very good shape, so everything looked even better on you. So my first day, my first day there, and we're going to do the fitting. On the day it's the first episode, the agent calls. He said, this is an offer, this is the show, this is who you're playing. And I said, yeah, okay, sounds okay, and I go there. It's at the Palace Hotel.

It's this luncheon and they give me the suit and my twin brother. I have a twin brother who he's a big clothes horse. I'm not you die if you saw what I'm sitting in now. Anyway, he like, I forgot that you're a twin Yeah. So he's like, you know, Italian suits, London shirts, you know this. I mean, he's just all over it, all over it. To this day, he's all over it. So he comes with me on my first day and they put on this suit. I can't remember who it was, it's just he's like, bro, bro.

I was like, he said, this is just incredible, and and I was like, yeah, it's really nice stuff. So that was funny because that first day he's like, whoever is you know doing your wardrobe really understands what's happening. And then I was going. I remember having a fitting at j Press one day on Madison Avenue and you know, j Press, and I show up with like, you know, dirty sneakers and dirty shorts and the baseball cap and

they're like hello. So but then but then I hopped into the dressing room and I hopped back out and I said, cleaned up pretty well. So anyway, wearing the stuff that was the armor, that was the aesthetic armor that that Eric was providing. And once I put the suit on and the double winds are not and the whatever it was, the handkerchief in the pocket and everything and the pocket square that was that could be Bart right there. Then I just started to feel like him

because I'm I'm not a suite guy. If I dress up in a suit like my blade, that's wild to me. He just looks so good. Oh well, it was fun, I mean, but again, all praise and honor to Eric. Eric uh he and you know what, Mike Fittings, chump, chump, chump, chump. It was just so quick. Very rarely did he say no, this is awful or this is a disaster. This can you come back later and I'll pull more stuff. It was always like, you know what, I had the same

experience with him. I don't think in all four and a half years, I ever even was like I just you always trusted him, And even if there was something where I was like, whoa, this is like really out there, he still somehow would be like then pull out an earring and something else, And by the time it was done, I'm like, I can't believe how you just even shape that and it already looked good before, like he just

really had. It's definitely art. I mean, it's you know, but but it's also your wardrobe karma I call it. You know, if you have a good wardrobe, commrade, that will chase you from job to job. And it's a prooduct of of your saying in shape too, Jessica, I mean, you know what I mean, and and seriously and being able to think certain sizes and and and and then having a certain posture or eylan or you know, to

manifest the look. Yeah, I agree. You know what's funny that you say that I really do have a good experience with wardrobes on all of my jobs. Knock come wood now, but I'll tell you what I do. Feel like you might be right that follows you job your job, but i'll tell you right now. The tech stuff doesn't even if the email is script. It's like half the script comes when I'm doing this podcast, like someone's mic

isn't working. So I'm good in the wardrobe department. When it comes to like emails and tech and all that I've I've lost there and i'd rather the wardrobe. You see, I'm sixty two. I can pleade like I'm an old guy who knows nothing. I just don't get it. But I'm telling you it produces stress. It's like, yeah, Bob, they'll they'll be dialing in at two o'clock and you'll be this, okay, okay, okay. And I'm trying to be

amenable to whatever the not at all. Certainly podcasts, but I thought, you know, I do a lot of fire service podcasts and first responder stuff and for charity this stuff the other. But like the minute you know, oh here's the link, and the links not opening, and I just really it's just it's it's stressful. It's professionals, and we want to do a good job. We want to be earlier. And you know, yeah, I have no pretense as to, oh I'll get to it when I get

to it, or I'm gonna be late. I would die before, you know what I mean. I still want to do the right thing. That's my emotional style. And even today I was like so like, oh no, you know, and but you were still you were still early on like it was all good. The thing is is I almost think on some of these like links and websites and and all these apps and all the platforms whatever, I almost think they try to make it so easy and

so many clicks that it's almost like backfires. Because even still when you try to go on these apps and and TikTok and Instagram and this and that, it's not just like this filter and this is how you blow the thing. It's like fifteen different things you gotta hit. And I'm like, yo, this is too much. I'm good. I FaceTime my two sons and I'm pointing in the FaceTime at the screen. I'm like open the mic and

he goes with the mouthful of sandwich. He goes pres you know, and I'm like where He's like down left, I'm like, thank you. So those are my tech gers um without, whom I hate. When they get indignant, they're like move that's all they say, move right, Let me just do it. My mom's like, well show me, show me. I want to learn. I'm like, Mom, we gotta watch my younger sister do it. I don't know. Oh my god, it is what it is. You know, we we we stumble to the goal. And you know it's no, it's

no reflection on anybody. If you're not tech savvy. Like I said at the beginning, I where you know you should wear it as a badge of courage. I'd rather sit down with a good book, a real book, not

in the book. Right. Do you want to talk about any of your charities or anything you want to us to know about that you got going on, or that we should can look into um for you before we wrap up, because you just you have such an interesting path and journey and life and and I knew that about you, but there's it's also what also I think it's so amazing is that there's things like no one did know, like you know the reason of why you went to become a firefighter. Like that's a really touching

you know, it makes me want to tear up. Twenty years later, twenty one years later, and I get emotional when I speak about it. It's this, how how much that man he was the godfather of my children? Like the room I'm sitting there in here now is like this converted office space. And when I rented this house like thirty years ago, I subsequently bought it, this was his room, you know what I mean. So, like he was such a like a he was like a Buddha. He was marine in Vietnam. He was at black belt,

he was a golden glove boxer. He was a yogi. He was doing yoga before anybody was ever doing yoga down at Jeebuk Mouti. So he was this beautiful human being and we had this great friendship and it really hurt. And like somebody once said, I read, No I don't know who said it, but I read it was the thing that transformed my life. It said, grief is love with nowhere to go. And so I figured I'd find somewhere from my love for him to go. And it was in the fire service. You know, why should it

be Joe. Why should it be Jim? Why should it be Why can't it be me? These guys are all putting down their job and their life and their family to go and help down power lines, gas leaks, automatic alarms, cardiac arrest, whatever it is. And I was forty one and the people I went through the fire Academy with for two years like twenty one, twenty three years old, twenty four years old, and by virtue of my being older,

I was listening. Oh my god, I was listening. And I'm not like a mechanically you know, inclines like oh the psaw and the coupling and the you know, the four I'm like, oh, ship. But I kept going and I got through. I mean I didn't fine and then rose through the ranks. I just stepped aside after twelve years as a captain to let like a new guy come up. And I still instruct like do fire training. I was giving well. I went on a cardiac called the other night that was really really you know, kind

of traumatic. But you know, I say to the universe, like, how did I get here? I'll tell you a quick story. When I when I was pushing my first fire, I was on the hose and I'm pushing down the hallway and I remember saying to myself, I didn't sign on for this, and my friend's voice came to me and he goes, this is exactly what you signed on for.

I was like, oh, ship. And then when the pandemic happened, because I drive the ambulance, I was sent for the vaccine like before anybody, and I was like, that's weird. And when the pandemic came, I says, I'm going to transport people with COVID. And then then I thought to myself, We'll wait a minute. I didn't sign on for this. His voice came to me again and said, this is exactly what you signed on for. So if you get out of the way, you know what I mean, and

your life opens up for you. And granted, uh, it's not that I'm following another person's path, but I am discovering and the opportunity, like because I think we're here just pretty much to help each other. That's just the way I am. The way my mother and father put me together is hey, you gotta get out there and help. And that's like my sisters are all like burn Care, AIDS Care, Transplant, coordination cancer care, I mean heavy, heavy stuff and for years, like my sister and Margaret did

um cancer care for forty one years. So there's that your life force. What makes you feel alive And you might not, well, oh it could be swimming, but like what really makes you feel alive, you know, like being a dad or being a mom. Of obviously that's just locked in, but then there are these other things. And it wasn't just the art, uh of acting. I found

out that the firefighting was one of the things. I really enjoy it, the challenge of it, staying in shape, like putting the gear on, and you know, I'm like, oh boy, I wonder how many more years in this I have left? Anyway, So I feel incredibly honored and lucky and blessed to have had this path put in front of me. And I don't say that like in a smalty it's the that's my that's totally my truth. And I'm so lucky that I still like it because

beautiful Robert. But I bitch and moan about it all the time because there's only two things, you know, uh, Like they say that acting there's only two times where we complain when we're working and when we're not. You know, but give an actor a job and they'll complain, Oh my god, isn't that what they say? With firefighting? It's like,

but so yeah, that's that's pretty much. I worked with several firefighter foundations, the Leery Firefighter Foundation, the Joseph de Bernardo Memorial, Firefighter Nation for Firefighter Survival Training vet HACK, which is a veterans organization and probably leaving somebody out, but these are just guys who we get together, and it's always something very cognitive, like it's not just giving firefighters money, but it's training them on how to get

out of a building. The contents of everybody's room. Fifty years ago, the contents used to be wood and cloth. Okay, now the contents is plastic. Plastic burns eight times hotter, and so the fire loads, that's what it's referred to, has changed, and so the methods and the tactics have to change, and it's a whole science. And the thing I love most about the fire service is that it's

a learning culture. You're always learning, no nobody knows all, and you're constantly in a in a constant cycle of learning. And I love that because it's it's humbling, you know what I mean, to continue learning everything and helping people. There's I mean so many layers of that and helping people and probably the everyone in your unit work like how close you get. It's probably like a sport kind of means. It's so funny and learning from each other

and helping each other. Then there's a sense of humor that goes along with that's just really like whoa you know, you hear people say anything. Sometimes you're like, uh, you know, too soon, you're too costic or to modeling, or really funny people who volunteer, because it's a lot to ask sometimes. Boy, when you know, when you're a paid firefighter, you leave the house and you go do your shift or you do a twenty four hour and your kids say goodbye

to you. But when you're a volunteer firefighter, you're leaving from your house right and you're kind of in your own neighborhood, district, town, and your kids see you leave the house and they hear the page or go off and they hear that there's a working structure fire. So you're taking a toll your family too, you know, But that gets absorbed functionally, you know what I mean they always say, hey, you know, be careful, and I'm like,

believe me, I will be right. But my friend was famously quoted to say, you can do everything right on this job and still get killed. And that's the truth too. So if nothing's ever what it seems, you should treat everything you know pretty seriously. And then on the E. M. S. Side of it, or even the fire side, you should treat everybody any house you respond to, they're calling you because they're having a super bad day, and and treating them as you would your family. It's a really great

formula for for being a first responder. Yeah wow, this is like so incredible. Yeah, who knew bark bass shows up if you're in real bad trouble. Oh my god, Oh my gosh. Wait, I am going to go back and listen obviously, but that quote before you started telling me about all this grief is love? What did you say? Reef? Is love with nowhere to go? And so if you with I'm writing down, if you can find a place to put it, because you know, I've lost a lot.

I'm sure you have, and you long and you yearn for the person, But if you can really super like put that love somewhere tangible where their spirit can see it and your spirit can see it or feel it or hear it or sense it. You're gonna be fine because it comes in waves, do you know what I mean? And you kind of ride the way. But again to find out how to do it, that's it's tricky, you know,

it's it's a little tricky for sure. Man. I just I loved you said that quote, and then you got into telling me all about what you just did, and I was like, this is like amazing. I love that and and that is really what life's about. And you know, even people listening to this today, you will touch them in some sort of way with with just your story, like who cares about the whole Gossip Girl? Yeah, I mean they touched We act it's complimentary. They tuned in,

they were fans of the show. They gave their energy, as you know, to us, and I think it's only fitting that we reciprocate by you know, deep die, We appreciate absolutely. They were like, it goes full circles for sure. But I love it because you would never expect coming on to listen to who played Bart Bath on XO XO Gossip Girl? You know, No, I'm serious. A lot of people are gonna be shocked and not because it

can't be done. And you just don't really hear of people doing everything that you're doing or the reasoning why. And it's a really beautiful thing. And that's what I really like about life and about our jobs. I got to do a really fun, cool TV show with you in New York, and you're out here helping people and taking on other things and just just even you Wow, yeah, I don't I'm speechless. Well, I can't find the word. I'm speechless that that you asked me to come on

and oh no, I'm so. I totally had fun. You know, it's always it's always the best play the bad guy. I was finally kind of boring to play the good guy because I've never hired to play the good guy, but like to come in there and really just you know, break you know, hearts, and break contracts and break deals and break trust with with actors like Kelly and and and the rest of the cast. It was just I

had fun. It was fun. It was fun. Yeah, Well, we loved we love watching you, and everyone always had the best things to say about working with you and and uh yeah, it's it's you know, doing these walk down memory lanes and deep dives and stuff like that is always so great because it just you know, it also reminds me of like I never took it for granted. I was always so pleased and so blessed and very appreciative.

But you know, when you look back and again, like what I'm saying is our paths crossing and you being able to share what, what and why you're doing everything is like what is so beautiful about that the show still has an effect on me personally. You get to hear you know, your story now and all the things.

It's just it's really a beautiful thing that I'm very blessed and I'm like so honored and like happy that you came on and you so hopefully, well we'll see each other in New York sometimes at some point, and everyone that comes on is like, we have to actually like get together in real life, not you know, because everyone kind of may run, you know, I see Chase here, I see Laton here, you know, see Kelly there would be nice. Yeah, Chase with the boys right now, he's

kind of like a comic genius. Like it's like it's so goddamn funny. I mean, it's just like we were watching the other night and uh, he is just just killing. He's killing. It's great. It's so much fun to watch it and everybody, you know, Yeah, obviously there's like everything she's doing her Yeah, yeah, Layton came on The Orville last season and worked with her, and then Taylor with her music, and Sebastian stand with the Marvel world and Pen with you and yeah, everyone's really killing it. And

not just the main cast. There's a bunch of guests casts that came on that are doing their things, Tony's and you know, yeah, they were definitely some talent, a talented group for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on. I'll let you have your afternoon. Um, and I really really hope to see you in person and give you a hug one of these days. It would be great. Thank you so much, and best to you and your family and the continuation of this project and whatever else.

Thanks Jessica, Okay, bye, Robert. Thank you so much Robert for joining me today. You are such a special person with so much knowledge about the world. Was a great, big heart that I wish everyone could just get a little feel for because you are awesome. I'm so grateful we reconnected and we need to make that happen in person very soon. And I want to thank all of you for listening. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and meet me back here next week for

an all new episode. XO x O. M XO XO is produced by Propagate Content and Meat Jessica z Or. Our show is executive produced by Lingley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Kristin Romilia, Emily Carr, and Hannah Harris. Original music by Moxie and Lune, and the episode was mixed by Setho Lansky