Hey, back with you on extras and Bros. We're with you Monday through Friday from six until nine. Honored to be with you. I thought we might spur some comments with some of the conversation we've had so far this morning, but we have not, which is unfortunate. But if you so choose to get involved in the program. The Meyer Hotline eight sixty six eight three eight forty eight forty three the text line Sports Radio to twenty one thousand.
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What he needs to do an offense that was among the worst in the history of Iowa football. We'll get to that coming up eight thirty five. Stick around and stay with us. Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer have always been open
and honest, opinionated, especially when it comes to baseball. Recently, there was a very good article co written by Ken Rosenthal and Jason Stark in The Athletic where it talks of Verlander getting ready for a game and the goal is always to throw a complete game, and Verlander says, look, that's the goal. Doesn't happen very often, but that's my goal. He's forty one, so you get it. Suzer, thirty nine, has the same goal.
Remember this. Verlander in his career once just once led baseball in complete games. That was two thousand and twelve, the number six. In his career, he has twenty six complete games. So as I get ready to tell you a little bit more about this article in the conversation that Verlander and Sureser had, and it's a good one, okay. Just keep in mind that it's not like these guys. People call them work courses. Today's pitchers
are not workhorses. We'll give you some examples moving forward. Just a reminder that Justin Verlander has thrown twenty six complete games in his career. Mac schures are twelve combined. Thirty eight. That's how many complete games they've thrown combined. Now, I hate going old school, old man stuff, all right, but I would just remind you that Denny McClain in nineteen sixty eight completed twenty eight games by himself, So he in one season, Denny McClain completed
more games than Justin Verlander has in his career. If that's too far back, how about Steve Carlton in nineteen seventy two. He won twenty seven games, he started forty one, his team won like fifty four. He was named the Cy Younger Award winner and finished fifth in the MVP. But he had thirty complete games in nineteen seventy two, thirty, almost as many as Verlander and Schurzer did combined. And before you say, yeah, well,
you've just you're bringing up two guys. I mean those are kind of the except wait, no, no, no, no, Verlander and shures Aer are Hall of Fame players. Yes, okay, then stop Nolan Ryan. I'm just measuring these guys against the best, since they are the best. Nolan Ryan Complete Games twenty twenty six, twenty six, twenty one, twenty two. When did it change? Can't say for certain, but we know this. It's not even just the complete games. Can we talk to innings?
We'll get to that in a moment. The article says that Verlander and Surzer are literal throwback pitchers. When they began their careers in the two thousand starters considered two hundred innings a minimum gage of effectiveness. Two hundred innings, Nolan Ryan was throwing three hundred and thirty in a season. Steve Carlton was throwing three hundred and forty six in seasons. And before you go, well, their arms blow up. No, Steve Carlton pitched twenty four years.
So what has changed? What has drastically changed? Scherzier and Verlander have some interesting thoughts, but first let me get any interesting thought via the Meyer hotline eight six six eight three eight forty eight forty three. Dave, how are
you today? Many good morning chef representing gr for you too, man a boy, So there you go. But yeah, hey, you know your topic, and you touched on this last week too, this in basketball, but this is load management and baseball, you know, because you brought up Nolan Ryan. Nolan Ryan had two hundred and twenty two complete games in his career. And you know, when I was a kid, my guy, Micky Lolich, you would throw forever, right, you know, not just
Daddy mcclaims. They threw Lolis out there, what four times, you know, four times in the World Series or whatever, you know, I mean crazy, but Lolis could do that. So you've really touched upon the fact that baseball changed probably before basketball did when it comes to load management with these guys and all of a sudden, how you use relievers and the way the
whole game changed in that regard. Yeah, And and what Verlander and Surser are saying too is it's about throwing as hard as you can when you first start the game. So they feel like that's something. Yeah, but you know too, chef, and you know, there there were right throwers and there were pitchers. There's a great documentary on Nolan Ryan. When he came up, he started as a reliever. He was a thrower, he wasn't
a pitcher. And you go back to you guys who knew you know, and who was Jimmy Price the art of pitching, you know, and so forth when they talk about guys who learned how to pitch as opposed to just guys who can throw. And I think that's another piece as well, because it's kind of the nuances of the game. It's when somebody gets the higher IQ. Yeah, you can, you can throw freaking seeds, but if you don't know where they're going or what to do with them, that's a
whole other thing too. No, I agree a hundred percent on those are excellent points. I've seen that documentary on Nolan Ryan. It's fascinating, simply fascinating. And thanks for the phone call, Dave, I got it a break. Yeah, it's it is about you know what else you're using in your arsenal. I get all that, but it's not like those guys in the past didn't have similar pitches, and it's not like those guys in the past didn't throw his hard and from the very beginning Verlander Insurser have come out
and said what they think has been what they call an epidemic. We'll get to that when we come back. It's good stuff from ver Lanner Andsurzer. We'll get your thoughts on it too, just like Dave joined us on the Meyer hotline eight sixty six eight three eight forty eight forty three, or you can just text the program Sports Radio to twenty one thousand. Stay with us. This is ex'es and bros. He and sure for my good friends from
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our tenth here at the Meyer LPGA Classic for simply gives. Get ready for the best to where yet to help neighbors in need while enjoying golf, food and family fun. Join us June thirteenth through the sixteenth at Blakefield Country Club for fabulous food, discoveryland for kids, and of course, elite women golfers from around the world competing to help feed our neighbors. Get your tickets now admire LPGA Classic dot com eighteen after the hour on this Tuesday morning. Welcome
back to X Susan Bros. That is our producer. I'm Matt Sheppard. Join us every Monday through Friday six until not Tigers will loser last night to the Royals. Game two of that three game set is tonight rhese Olsen law a bit of a unfortunate right, zero to five Detroit, now one in eight in his nine starts and despite an ERA of two point one six eight runs of support in fifty innings. Speaking of pitching, and by the way, tonight game two, it's a it'll be Casey Mize against Alec Marsh,
Casey Mice against Alc Marsh. Speaking of pitching, we were we were talking about just before the break, and Dave from Hudsonville Colden chimed in a little bit on the Verlander sures Er mindset and how it's so different these days. This is what Verlander had to say about the epidemic that's taking place in baseball,
he says, and he's the one who used the word epidemic. He said, throw as hard as you can, for as long as you can have a couple of big, nasty off speed pitches, and the second you get in any trouble, which analytics say is usually the third time through the lineup, you're out. He said. When I came up, you had to hone your craft in the minor leagues. You had to show you could control multiple pitches in the zone before you were ever able to come up.
That's kind of fallen by the wayside. The problem is we want to bring back the starting pitcher. The analysts that are now running these teams his words now are going to say, we're not going to be better for that. We're going to be better off having a kid who throws a hundred with a nasty slider and do it for three innings. If he goes five, that's great. He said that kid isn't going to be better than if I told him, don't throw one hundred, throw ninety five. Hit the corners.
Try to get eight innings out of this, but analyst world, everything is black and white. They don't know how to value those extra innings, so they ignore it. Hmm. I don't know what statistic we may use, or we may come to a conclusion and an agreement about which is most important. Complete games is probably more of a self induced line that pitchers would like
to reach. This year, Jordan Lyles and Sandy Alcntra have three complete games that leads baseball to which you may say, well, that's not terrible. Were you know how many starts in eight nine starts in good for them until you dig deeper. A year ago, Al Contra led all of baseball in complete games with six. Two years ago, Adam Wainwright Zach Wheeler led all of baseball in complete games with three. In nineteen, Lucas Giolito Shane Bieber
led all of baseball and complete games with three the year before. For that, in twenty eighteen, there were eight pitchers who led baseball in complete games with two, Sures are being one of them. Schurzer said, the starts that make everybody pull their hair out is when you go five innings on seventy pitches, you've only given up one run and you get pulled. That's the
start that is agitating everybody. That you can be dealing and someone can come in and say, because of the probability theory that you're going to give up more runs the third time through, you've got to come out of the ballgame. Verlander seem to have gotten pretty hot. See neither he nor Schurzer are blaming the younger pitchers. Like Schuzer said, you gotta be careful. I
don't want to bash the next generation. I bet the generation before me looked at me and said, you're only throwing one hundred to one hundred and twenty pitches. We threw one hundred and fifty. Why aren't you guys throwing one
hundred and fifty pitches. It's been the evolution of the hitter as much as anything else, Verlander said, a lot of parents will come up to him, parents who have their kids pitching, and they'll say, my kid's pretty good, and Verlander will say, well, how old is he and they'll say seven. They're already sending him to places that are just there to increase velocity. You're a kid, you'll be able to figure it out. There are late bloomers. Think of this, Think of the pictures who probably wouldn't
have made it today. I wonder if Greg Maddox, a Hall of Fame pitcher. Honestly, I wonder if Greg Maddox would have made it today. Because Greg Maddox didn't throw hard, you know that, and yet he won four cy youngs. He wasn't breaking any radar guns, and yet he won four Era titles three times in a row. He led the majors in complete games. Now, he didn't complete many. It was nine, ten and ten. How many is enough. I don't know how many would you look
at and say that's impressive. I think if you're into, you know, mid double digits, I feels like in the thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, that's pretty good. Okay, I mean think about it. Maddox led the league in complete games in nineteen ninety five with ten and he started twenty eight games, so you're looking at almost about a third of his starts. He's going to complete game. That's pretty good. He also led the league in
his pitch Now the innings pitch was two hundred and two. I told you earlier before the break of some of the old timers who were throwing in the three hundreds. How much does it affect you as a fan and you're watching games, because we'll get text and we'll get phone calls from a lot of you after aj Hinch pulls trek Skouobel or rees Olsen after ninety pitches and seven innings, and you get frustrated. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just
saying you get frustrated. So I wonder if something like that matters to your or it's basically, hey, listen, as long as my team wins the game. You've got bullpen, guys, you got to use to I kind of look at it this way. Trek Scoobl's on the bump, it's the seventh inning. Who's warming up? Shelby Miller? Who's better? Who can I live with if we happen to lose this game? I think Terrek Scoobl's
better than anybody got in a bullpit, at least in that moment. If we get to the ninth and you want to go to Jason Foley because you need a double playball, I'm okay with that. A lot of it's a feel thing for managers, but it's an interesting perspective from Verlander and Schurzer that I wanted to share with you. Meyer hotline eight six six eight three eight forty eight forty three about an hour from now. Tim Lester joins us here
on Exies and bro stay with us. Bill Somonson here from my good friend Josh Garvey. Now he's a managing shareholder at Dorn Mayhew's Grand Rapids office. Their world headquarters are in Troy, Michigan, on the east side of the state, and they have locations all around the world. They have over five hundred and fifty motivated accounting professionals ninety years in business. And I mentioned the
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dot com. They're one of Americas and the worlds top CPA accounting and business firms. They're Dorn may You there's a new player in towns. Hi. I'm Herman Moore, blyans All Pro Wide Receiver and I'm talking about Eagle Casino in sports, the real money mobile casino. It's so easy to play. You can go from wager to winner to waller just like that. Sign up now and we'll match your deposit up to fifteen hundred dollars or you can get
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thousand. Then I know we got a text. Let's hit it. Yeah, it says they should nickname aj Hinch five and a third. He's the king of pulling at five and a third, just so they qualify for a win. But let's keep playing, keep paying these players and managers more money. Nothing in sports has a human element anymore. It started with instant replay. Now refs blow calls because they have instant replay on their backs. There's a lot to digest there. There's a lot to dig out, that's for
sure. To say it's five and a third is probably a little obviously. Look, we all get emotional about this stuff, but that's that's completely not true. And I'm sure the Texter knows that because if you look at Terrek scouble six six and a third, six and a third six seven, six, six and a third six, right, so it's not five and a third if you look at Reese Olsen and I'm not going to use the excuse
that he's a young pitcher and hasn't been around very long. He's only twenty four and you want to save him this, that, and the other. No, that's that's bull crap, Okay, because he's been in the miners long enough. But he has thrown eight six, seven, six and a third. Would you like them to go deeper? Yes? I would, you would, no doubt about that. I'm not gonna let's not get too carried away. Let's try to keep it in perspective here. Okay, but
I hear what you're saying. You're basically saying he is he pulls his guys too early. I have noticed that more this year, and it's I understand where you're coming from. You'd rather have an old school perspective, so would I. Honestly I would do. I found this article to be really interesting and pleasing and encouraging all at the same time. This is about pro football focuses. This is their interpretation of it. Pro Football Focus has ranked the
top twenty five players under the age of twenty five entering this season. Okay, got it going into twenty twenty four. If you're twenty five years or younger and you're on this list, you are in selective company. Ben Take a guess at how many Lions are on this list? Oh wow? How many of the top twenty five players who are twenty five years older younger are on this list? Just take a guess. I'll say five. You're all
right, Five Lions are on this list. The number one player in the National Football League, according to Pro Football Focus, the number one player who is twenty five years or younger is Penna Suel. They call him an elite force. They don't use their eyes, they use the numbers. Ninety two point eight Pro football Focus overall grade ninety five point one Pro football Focus Run blocking Grade, both led all NFL offensive lineman a year ago. That's how
good he is, So he's number one. Here's what they write. Although Sewell has already played three seasons in the NFL, he's still only twenty three
years old and will not turn twenty four until October. His three thousand, three hundred and fifty nine regular season snaps over the past three seasons, ranks second among all players, and he is on his way to becoming the best offensive lineman in the league, I would argue, I would add, if he's not already, and then they give the grades that I just read to you. So Penny Sewell, according to Pro Football Focus, is the best player twenty five years or younger in the entire NFL beauty of it. He'll
probably be there number one next year. Number two is Sauce Gardner, the Detroiter. Number three is a guy we talked about yesterday, Trevor Lawrence. Number four is Jamar Chase, and number five is Kyle Hamilton, the safety for Baltimore. Number six is the next Lion, Aiden Hutchinson. Here's what Pro Football Focus writes about Aiden Hutchinson. Flashed potential in his rookie season, but he brought his game to a whole new level in twenty twenty three.
Now I find that interesting, and here's why I think a lot of people thought this past season that Aiden Hutchinson was not as good as he was the pre season. That's kind of what I gauged from people's reaction to him. Now, remember his rookie season, Aiden Hutchinson was pretty damn good. He had nine and a half sacks. Like it or not, that's what players off the edge are measured for Quarterback hurries pretty damn important too, right,
Making a guy uncomfortable is really important. But Aiden Hutchinson quickly If I'm wrong here, He only had a couple more sacks last season than he did his rookie campaign, and I think he started rather slow. It picked up as the year went on. People want him to be Miles Garrett, Max Crosby, Khalil Mack, TJ. Watt, Micah Parsons, that type of guy. He's a disruptive force. There's no doubt about that. Fourteen tackles for loss and an eleven and a half sax season, you would take that.
Because as a rookie, I think he got off to a better start and that's when people were just so enamored. But anyway, they say he flashed his potential, brought his game to a new level last year. His ninety one point two Pro Football Focus pass rushing grade placed fifth and trailed only an elite group of players Miles Garrett, Micah Parsons, Nick Bosa and TJ. Watt. Hutchinson's one hundred and ten total pressures during the regular season ranks second
among edge defenders. So you got Penny Suole at number one, and you got Aiden Hutchinson at number six. Right behind Hutchinson is CJ. Stroud, then Brock Purty. We're talking about the top twenty five players according to Pro Football Focus aged twenty five are Younger Perty at number eight, Garrett Wilson, the wide receiver out of Ohio State and with the Jets, at number nine, and Trent McDuffie, the cornerback for Kansas City at ten. The next
a Lion. The next Lion is at number eleven. So you got number one, sool Hutchinson, six, and now number eleven am Mamra Saint Brown. He will turn twenty five this season. He proved that in twenty twenty three that his breakout twenty twenty two campaign was not a fluke. He was one of just three wide receivers to earn all PFF overall grades above ninety in both twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three. You know who. The other
two wide receivers were Tyree Hill and Justin Jefferson. Saint Brown snagged ninety three point five percent of his catchuble targets over the past two years. That ranks second among wide receivers. Not bad. The next Lion on this list of best players twenty five years young or younger is Sam Laporta. Sam Laporta comes in at number nineteen. Here's what Pro Football Focus writes about Laporta. Multiple
first round tight ends have faced high expectations in recent years. Laporta, a second round pick last year, was not one of them, but he arguably outplayed all rookie tight ends over the past decade. His nine hundred and eighty one regular season snaps as a rookie led all tight ends over the past six seasons by a significant margin. In addition, his overall and receiving grades are
second to only Kyle Pitts's rookie season over that span. There's number four, Sewell at one, Hutchinson at six, Saint Brown at eleven, Laporta at nineteen, leaving one more Lion who is twenty five years young or younger in Pro Football Focus's top twenty five players who are twenty five or younger, and that is Jamiir Gibbs at number twenty one. Here's what Pro Football Focus writes
about Jamiir Gibbs. While he had a limited role initially, Gibbs got more and more playing time as the twenty twenty three season war on and became an electric playmaker for the Lions in the second half of his rookie campaign. Remember this is a guy that most people did not want. Brad Holmes, Dan Campbell, members of their front office did, but most people did not want Jamiir Gibbs. It's okay to be honest and say you were wrong. It
is. There's nothing wrong with that. You didn't look, you didn't want. I would argue you didn't want Sam Laporta, Right, No, you didn't, and you didn't want Jamiir Gibbs one of those guys. You're not alone. It happens. It's okay. We all make mistakes. I said earlier. Hey, listen, man, I mean it's not our job to be able to go out and scout these guys. So that's the general managers. Yes it is. And guess what, you're not a general manager.
We all get caught up with emotion. Jamiir Gibbs was taking twelfth overall. You know what, grave they got one website gave him a D for the pick. Here's what they wrote. Yes he's an airback, Yes he can do a lot of things. Why take him here when there's a guy like corner Christian Gonzales on the board. He's good, but he's a back. At least it wasn't a top ten pick. That was from CB Sports. That was from Pete Prisco, who who specializes in the draft and who does
a draft show every year on the radio. He gave them a D. He gave Jack Campbell the pick of Jack Campbell and a plus. And Jack Campbell had a good year. He's not on this list, but he had a good year. We're not always right. I think a lot of people probably didn't want Jack Campbell either. Look. I remember that draft, and I remember saying when the lines were taken, what was at thirty fourth right for Sam Laporta. I said, Michael Mayer is still there. Holy cow,
that's awesome. I loved him at Notre Dame, so I thought they were going to take Michael Mayer and they took Sam Laporta. I wasn't pissed off about it, but I was like, hmm, that's interesting. Why that? I think I wanted when the lines were picking at twelve, I'm who are they moving up to get? I wanted the van s kid that the Packers took Lucas van Ass remember him out of Iowa. I digress. So bottom line is they take Jamiir Gibbs. And now this is what Pro
football Focus writes. While he had unlimited role initially, Gibbs got more and more playing time as the season war on became more electric for the lines in the second half. Following Week seven, after his return from injury, he earned a seventy eight Pro football Focus overall grade, which ranked eleventh among running backs, while his eighty two rushing grade tied for seventh at the position.
I don't think either one of those are fantastic eleventh and seventh, but you can see what he does and how it makes a difference in this offense and with this team. So to have five guys, nobody else has that many. You have one fifth according to Pro football Focus, which should mean a little bit more to most. Pro football Focus should mean a little bit more to you. And the reason I say that is because they use numbers,
they use certain studies. This is what they do. Okay, there's something to be said for that anyway, you've got a fifth of your guys. That means the futures really bright. Now it's not easy to duplicate. You've got to continue to do it year in and year out. But you've got five young players among the best in the game, not just at their position, but the best in the game, who are leading you moving forward.
It tells you something. I read another article about what teams did in the draft and how it revealed an identity for those teams, and I thought to myself, Okay, I want to read this because I want to see what teams they are and what the identity is. I would ask you this, what did the Lions identity reveal from their draft? What do you think it was? Because the opinion of this website did not give the Lions identity. It just picks seven teams who they chose and how they feel it's impacted them,
and I helped identify them. So immediately I think, all right, well, then what's the Lion's identity. I think we know what the Lion's identity overall is, but what did this draft tell you about them? So we'll get to that. On the other side, don't forget Tim Lester, former quarterback at Western Michigan, former head coach at Western Michigan, and now the new offensive coordinator at Iowa. He will join us at the bottom of the eight o'clock hour on ex'es and bros. As we turn the corner on
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