In anticipation of and Or season two. Today we have a very special episode of Your Wrong Friend, with a debate of whether or not Rogue one is a good movie. Is this blasphemy? My personal opinion is yes, I think Rogue one is fantastic. I'm a Rogue one fan, as you know. But guess what, it doesn't matter because our judge is Jason and he will be making the ruling at the end of this episode.
Warning.
Today's episode contains spoilers for Rogue one, a Star Wars story. I was about to say it is a good movie, but I can't say that right now. It's a movie that you should be aware of, and if you have not seen it, then go watch it, baby, and then come back to this particular debate. Hello, what it is jaconcepting? You gotta Welcome back to the next Ray Vision, the podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comments, and pop culture.
Coming from my our podcast.
We're bringing you three three three three episodes a week every Tuesday Thursday, with that strap episode every Wednesday. Today, today we have a special episode of Your Wrong Friend, the episode in which we hold up our sacred opinions to attack and debate to decide what pop culture thing someone is wrong about. In today's episode, this wrote one good.
Speaking for the defense, we have Star Wars Ultravan Joel and speaking for the prosecution, our super producer Aaron sitting in judgment, always unbiased, always above the fray will be producer and Spice smeister Aboo and myself. This is your wrong friend, Prosecution, Defense, introduce yourselves.
Uh Hi, I'm Jelmenique. I am a Star Wars super fan and a lover of rogue.
One.
Yay women, y a K two s O.
I have many thoughts. Yay women. Absolutely strike that.
Oh my god, record, I didn't realize this movie had any strong women characters.
Sorry, Strike, We're.
Gonna battle, strike, strike, strike all of this.
Hold on there.
I want to warn our contestants today, no lobbying in the introductions. Okay, clean, fight break.
My name's Aaron wan Kaufman. I'm one of the producers along with Joel and a Boo, and I am a Star Wars super fan, but I also am okay. One of my favorite things about, for instance, an album of music is that I can love the album and not have to like some of the songs. On the album.
Okay, here's how it works, folks. Each person will have four minutes that's four standard minutes of sixty seconds each to argue their opening points, after which our panel A Boo and myself aboo say hi Hi. We'll ask two questions. Each side will have one minute per question to respond. After that, we go to the closing statements, in which the prosecution and defense will make a one minute statement
about why their opinion should hold sway. And then it will go to the judges A Boo and myself sitting above the clouds, high in judgment without any biases, high and mighty, no biases, completely balanced and fair, will adjudicate and announce our verdict. Are we ready, folks? How do we feeling? Were ready to get into it?
Feel great?
Yes, Let's begin with the opening statements, Joel, the floor is yours. We're ready to answer one question. Is Rogue one a good movie? And I say it's a classic Star Wars film. I positive that it is the only classic Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi because it's the only movie that embodies the filmmaking ideals of the original trilogy, and it somehow does as while improving upon the original series and significantly expanding the Star Wars universe.
We can see respect to the originals in three spaces. The first to our scale and score. How does episode four open with that giant star destroyer, that devastrator dominating the screen, making the audience feel overwhelmed by its sheer size.
This is vital for two reasons. One because it's an opening home run for industrial light and magic, arguably the singular element that makes episodes four through six classics, and two because it gives size to the galaxy. And one we get that star destroyer to dustar shot, and then the dust Star literally eclipses a planet son That's amazing.
Then we get homage to Michael Giaccino's score, which generously uses lay motifs from John William's Originals score, arguably the other element that makes four through six classics to great effect. When the rebellion theme plays, as the soldiers agree to follow jin, you're genuinely moved. The third homage comes from Whites and Gilroy's scripting. These methods that originally inspired George Lucas I'm mostly talking about Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey are
one maps his character archetypes over ordinary people. In way, we have a mentor who throughout the story tells each character that he has faith in them, and we watch that spark of belief ignite them to powerful change. Donny YenS Mway is an embodiment of the Force, not as a warrior or even as an expert wielder, but as a believer, and we see what the Force means, not to the Sith or Jedi, but how it kinetically connects
all life. A major franchise tenant now explored beyond power wielding gods, to watch mere mortals tap into the Force to bolster their inner confidence is damn inspiring. Campbell's influence continues with Diego lunas Cassian and Or the Shape Shifter, a man so jaded he shoots a terrified informant in the back to get a clean getaway, but by the end of this film, he's put his faith in a woman he barely knows and leaves his light down just to give the rebellion a chance to make the right
strategic move. And K two s So played by Tuttick, would get the Trickster my favorite droid since Chopper, and I'm sorry but he's better, buddy, is trying to get you killed or annoying, and you can understand what he's saying. A perfect blend of what we love about C. Three PO and R two D two with out the elements
that we don't. But it's the bolstering of the ultimate shadow character Vader with that modern day hallway scene to cap off the film that pushes the film above and beyond his sheer size, his speed, but most importantly the absolute terror he strikes in the rebels on the bridge. This Vader, notoriously horrifying though he is, is at his
most horrific in the hall scene. Rogwan improves a new Hope by highlighting both the intense sacrifice that went into delivering the Death Star cinematics and also centering the ways in which the Empire destroys the lies of citizens, from enslaving its workers to crushing individuality or droids, to its most sinister act, destroying the very idea of hope. Ultimately, this is a story of how hope was rediscovered, not by princess or a chosen teenager or a legendary scoundrel,
but by the ordinary people. There are steaks here. They all die. It makes that sacrifice matter. It makes all of that. But so four means something. Every in near failure is more heart stopping because look who we lost to get here, and that story was so impactful it's spawn off into a prequel that it's critically considered to be the greatest Star Wars television property. I am, of course talking about and Or, which might be one of the most important TV series in the past ten years period.
I'm sorry, but your wrong friend. Rogue one, a Star Wars story, is a classic.
Oh my god, I.
Did it.
With thirty seconds to spare, with thirty seconds to spare.
Wonderful, Aaron a boot give me that two minute and give me the one minute. I did not pre write anything the way Joel did, so.
I actually strike strike Wow, you're going.
Warn, trying to garner this garner sympathy of.
The journey by stating that no stop speakings of my heart right now, not like my intellectual competition war.
Are you we will shrike?
Aaron? Are you ready?
I'm ready?
Begin friends.
Joelle is here arguing that Rogue one is a good Star Wars movie, to which I only have one thing to say, lies deceptions, more lies. This is a movie based around the main character, Jin, who has given zero personality. In the first three scenes we get of Gin, we have no dialogue other than her saying Mama, which is just her calling out to her mother. Every character in those opening scenes is given more character development in each
of those scenes than Jin is. We learn more about K two s O as he catches her than we do about her as she tries to escape from the prison transport. Which also the second scene is her in a jail set with someone sleeping.
What did we gain from that?
Nothing? Also, that seems three seconds long because this movie jumps around from scene to scene so quickly. In the first half hour, Jin has been raised by Saw. She was left in a bunker with a knife and a blaster. She misses her dad. She never mentions her mom again, even though her mom has died. But where's the character background and development to her besides the fact that she was in jail? And then the other characters. Riz Ahmed an amazing, amazing actor. His character traits are he's he's
a pilot anyways, Donnie Yen. He he's a great actor and his character traits are he's he's a quippie, blind guy. I guess, okay, we'll move on. We really don't get much character development in here. We just get drastic changes to the characters when the plot needs us to move along in some way. Jin doesn't care about anything. She goes in front of the rebels and she's like, this isn't my fight. I'll get you to saw and that's it. She watches one hologram with her dad, which she just said, oh,
I'm trying to forget him. It's easier to just assume he's dead. And then all of a sudden she's out there, even more liberal than the rebels, saying this is all of our fight. We all have to be here, and then she's inspiring everyone with her wares. The only people in this film that we care about truly are Donnie Yen and his boyfriend, and they their motivations are entirely suspect. At one point, Donnie Yen brings up kyber crystals to Gin and then all of a sudden they join up.
It's the most like video game on rails, like the Allies are joining your recruitment story. We have no there's no reason for Donnie En and his boyfriend to join up, but they do anyways. Also, this is not a good Star Wars movie because Forrest Whitaker is confused and thinks he's in another movie entirely. He thinks he's I don't know, Jared Leto in Suicide Squad. Maybe he's Pacino Incentive, a woman I don't know, but he's not in a Star Wars movie.
Here.
Also, the dialogue, I did some of it with the lies deceptions. The dialogue in this is horrible, Like, okay, you saw, says to Jin, you'd see the Imperial flag rain above the galaxy and Jin's response is it's not a problem if you don't look up. What kind of dialogue is that? And then later on Darth Vader, who gets maybe like the two minutes of the greatest screen time ever. He looks great and he chokes Ben Mendelssohn and he says, be careful not to choke on your aspirations.
Director.
We get it. We don't need, we don't need Darth Vader making Spider Man jokes in this. Finally, finally bays Donnieen's boyfriend calls Jin little sister at one point as they get ready to leave. He has not exchanged any dialogue with her. In the movie up until that point, and suddenly they're calling him, calling her little sister. Also, there's the background actors. At one point they highlight one background actor saying just listen to her what she proposing,
and then someone else else for Jetta. This is like a middle school play level dialogue. This movie has no character development, and the dialogue is bad. And Forrest Whitaker thinks he's somewhere else. That's why this is not a good Star Wars movie.
And with that our opening statements have culminated. We will now go to an ad break in which all of us judges the audience, everyone will digest.
What we've just heard, and then we'll come back and we're back A boo or.
Are you ready for the questions section? I am Joelle. Since you began, we'll start with your questions, aw boo.
Would you like to start?
Of course?
Okay, Joelle. I would love for you to directly address Errand's claim that the characters in this film lack death and are nothing more than character archetypes. What would you say to that?
As I explained to my opening statement, archetypes are the keys to Star Wars. They are the absolute core element that follows Joseph Campbell's Heroes Journey that uses archetypes to tell stories. So you're kind of proving by point that it is more of a classic film with these kind of archetypes on the idea that they're vast and empty. Okay, let's vegan. Why do you hate children? Okay?
She is a survivor of a horrible trauma, all right.
The whole goal is to get the crew together. She has this big emotional change after seeing her father because it was easier to believe that he was dead when she didn't know. Now that she has some hope a key element of Star Wars, it changes her around to being a true rebel. And because she knows her father has died for a very specific cause, he lived his whole life a lie so that they could have one chance to end the empire, as she has one goal
to make her father's life not a waste. That is beautiful And it's okay to be a quiet interior.
Person like jin Is.
You know, we're not all chea root.
Out here being we're at time allowed with our thoughts and our feelings time. Next up, I will ask the question of eron Aaron, what Star Wars film, classic or otherwise. This is a question about your assertion that the writing of Rogue One is bad, the dialogue is substandard. What's the Star Wars movie with that crackling dialogue that you're referencing that we're that we're missing here, that star that Rogue one is not living up to.
I don't know if there's a Star Wars movie that I think has incredible dialogue, but I do think that none of the other films that I think of as being good films, in particular one or four or five six, you have a sense of scale and things mattering, and to me throughout Rogue One, I just I truly did not care about the characters other than Donnie Yen, and I think part of that reason is I felt like these characters felt a little too one sided and one note,
I'm totally okay with, you know, some of the dialogue being weak in all of them, but I felt like the dialogue in all of this was weak, and so I didn't care about the characters. I didn't believe their dialogue, and for those reasons, the poor dialogue stood out to me more here. I don't usually watch a Star Wars or TV show and write down quotes that I think are bad and then write uugh afterwards. I did that multiple times in this movie.
Time quick protocol.
Note we are going snake draft on the question segment, so Erin will receive a second question now from judjoboom ah boom.
Okay Erin, I would love to know your thoughts on quite possibly one of the most iconic scenes in all of Star Wars that we got in this film, the Vader entrance. Did the Vader entrance work for you? Were there Star Wars moments in this movie that worked for you?
And it?
Is it a strength or a weakness of this film that it really understands that it is a story within a larger tapestry of Star Wars, and it does it's best to fit within that tapestry.
I agree that the Vader scene is two of the best minutes in all of Star Wars.
I loved it. It's like a horror movie.
Vader finally shows his power in such an incredible way that I think it was frankly lacking in the original trilogy. I love those two minutes. They are incredible. The opening of the original Watchman movie is good. That doesn't make that movie good. In fact, I think that movie is very bad just because a small part of something is good doesn't meet the rest of it is good. And along those lines there are some quintessential Star Wars things here. I do think this movie tries way too hard to
say we're not a typical Star Wars movie. But hey, we got to make sure we mentioned kyber crystals, and hey, look at all these cgi people were bringing out back for cameos. Did we really need Lea? Did we really need Tarkan? Looking pretty rough throughout the entire thing, I would argue, no, it knows that it's part of a larger story, and I think it actually suffers because of that.
Time.
And now our final question for Joel Joelle, I'd like you to speak to Aaron's criticism regarding the story. One thing I noticed from your opening statement was it was, you know, long on film aesthetics and short on blood and bone and the pumping heart that I think people respond to when they go to a theater and want to see a great story. So your response to Aaron's assertion that the story is just not there.
Okay, I think everyone knows. Tony Gilroy had to be called in last week it to fix this. It was a hot mess. They weren't sure how they were gonna make it to the finish line. So, yes, we are lighter on story. But if you've been following along on our Eggers breakdown, you know I'm fine with the vibes. I feel like we got together a crew who could make it work, and I think what's most important is the dismantling of the empire as a negative force and
really exploring how that impacts the little people. It's the larger scale things this does to tie into a larger tapestry, a storytelling that I think works really well. You can pick a part that maybe there are places we could have bolstered characters, made things connect more. But I'm totally fine with a film that's like, how do we make the dust Star more scary? I'm fine with a film that's like, here's a small crew coming together to become family.
And I think the small parts, usually these little one shots where Tony was really focusing and honing in on the dialogue, do enough to get this movie to a passable grade of script. And then everybody else comes in and totally kicks ass.
That culminates are question and answer segment. We're going to digest this, Abu and I I would insist that the audience also digest the things that they've heard. We'll be back for word from our sponsors, and we're back. Abu and I are going to go into chambers and discuss what we've heard. Abu, what do you think? What do you what do you think?
Wow?
Jason, I am quite impressed by both the defense and the prosecution.
I am as well.
I will say I came in pretty biased against Aaron in this. I will I will admit my own biases here for full transparency. I love Rogue One, but I came in with an open mind, and oh I wanted to hear Aaron out and I I think he moved the needle quite a bit. I'll admit for me, What about you?
Yeah, I mean I think this comes down to what are we willing to forgive. I think that Aaron's not wrong on the technical merits right, mm hmm. At the same time, thing I was trying to get at with the question about other Star Wars movies. You know that Rogue One not clearing some kind of dialogue quality bar. You know, it's it's not exactly Shakespeare folks that we're talking about when we talk about that, any of the Star Wars movies, even the classic ones. So it's all
about what will we forgive and why? And I have to admit I'm looking inside my soul as a person who I'll admit it like and enjoy's Rogue One and thinks it's good. I'm now looking inward and wondering what is it about this highly imperfect movie. I think we all can admit that it's a highly impurpose that we respond to. And why why are we willing to either accept its faults as part of a larger hole or reject its faults and say, frankly, this movie isn't up
to stuff. It's an interesting it's an interesting question overall. Yeah, and I must admit I am currently experiencing significant emotional and intellectual turmoil that I am barely keeping below the surface.
Wow.
Wow, I'm fucking freaking out.
Man.
Do I like what I like?
And why do I know what I like?
Anymore? What if everything I've ever.
Liked is bad?
Is bad?
This is crazy.
I'm horrified of having bad tastes, But also I know I have bad tastes. Yeah, and that's a difficult dichotomy to live in. I will say, when it comes to Rogue one, I love your question of what are we willing to forgive here? I think that's a question with any franchise storytelling, especially a franchise of as big as this. It means so many different things to so many different people, and out of a certain story, everyone's going to be looking to get something different out of Star Wars.
Yeah.
For Joelle, from her arguments, it sounded like she's totally fine with vibes and for Aaron, clearly he wants some a very strong emotional core and excellent storytelling. And I think both of them made very fair arguments based on what they are looking for from a Star Wars story.
I think it comes down to on some level ambition within ip M, are you willing to look past imperfections because something really went for it. They took a swing, They took a big, big swing. Maybe they didn't connect, maybe they didn't even hit it, you know, out of the infield, but they took that big swing in a space in which you're used to getting fan service, box checking type of material.
Or is it better to say.
You came here expecting a hamburger, and I'm gonna give you a fucking great hamburger, you know.
What I mean.
I think that, to me is the central question.
And listen, I gotta take a piss. Let's meet back here in five and then we'll walk into the courtroom and we'll see what's going on. This isn't being recorded, right, this is just in our chambers. They're not recorded us, right, No, not at all? Okay, good, Yeah, Joelle, Aaron, You've given us a lot to think about, and we've taken we've
taken our responsibility quite seriously. I think, if you know, just to take a moment to pat ourselves on the back for our holding the standards of this courtroom right. And now we will share our unbiased and independent verdicts about the question at hand. Aboo, would you like to begin.
I can't begin my completely unbiased verdict unbiased, so unbiased? Is that Rogue One is such a banger? I mean, I love that movie so much. I love that it took a big swing. I love that there was no Jedis in this movie and it's still had the audacity and the courage to call itself a Star Wars story. Naria Saber insight outside of Vader himself. The Vader scene itself is iconic, and I don't know, maybe a single scene does make for an excellent and iconic movie. So I have to hand this one to Joel.
Hmmm.
That was my totally, completely unbiased take.
My completely unbiased taken. Aboo and I were back in chambers saying how unbiased we were. That was most of the conversations, just saying, you're so unbiased. I hope I can be as unbiased as you. That's what we're talking about.
Let me first say that I agree with many of the criticisms, if not all, of the criticism levied by Aaron in his prosecution of Rogue One as a not good film that set there is something about the ambition of the movie and something that Joel didn't speak to, but which I will speak to now, which is another parallel between Episode four A New Hope and Ague and Rogue One. Is it the way it tacitly acknowledges the current state of war as it existed in the culture
at that time. This is a movie that I think acknowledges that America was in the midst of a war on terror, and it also acknowledges that maybe there's some strength in those ideas and a power that cannot be touched. And it's because of those and other things the ambition of this movie, despite its imperfections, that I'm going to rule in favor of Joel, but with a special comment that Aaron, we have not judged in your favor. I don't think you're wrong necessarily, You're definitely not wrong. A
movie that could have been a lot better. This is a movie in which a lot of the heavy lifting story wise happens in between the ears of the audience that is sitting there watching it. That said, Joelle, you've carried the day. According to the verdict of the your Wrong Friend Court, Rogue one is a good movie.
We've decided, Well, would you make like a ten commandments of like these are rules?
Yeah, yes, you're wrong if you have it. If you have anything to say, feel free to say it now or forever. Hold your peace. Good game.
And it was a great battle. I felt at one point my back against the while little bit. If I get in the story deal, I'm suddenly there's not a lot to defend here. But I love this movie's grief battle.
Well, that's been it for a wonderful episode of X ray Vision. You're wrong, friend.
On the next episode of X ray Vision, we've got our reactions to the Dead Evil Born Again season finale, and next week we have our Thunderbolts book Club. So go read issue one and then we'll begin our and or season two coverage with two episodes, a recap and a roundtable discussion.
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Subsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Booze Afar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi our Discoord moderator.