Xtras: The VVitch

Hello and welcome.

My name is Joel Monique and I'm Carmen Lalan.

And welcome to x Ray Vision Extras and Xtra Vision series, where we died deep into even more of your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Every superhero team needs side quest, and our rotating panel of producers and guest hosts will be submitting to help Jason and Rosie cover all of the amazing nerd content out there.

We're back today with a new series of extras in preparation for the highly anticipated Nose Fit upo by these two horror girlies, myself and Joelle, and we're going to be recapping the filmography of Robert Eggers and talking about him as a director. Thus and today we're starting with his first feature length film.

The Witch. Oh my gosh.

The Witch is a film that follows Tomlinson, a girl whose parents traveled to the New World to start over, and as she is kicked out of the community with the rest of her family because their father is a street preacher who is loud and annoying and when they asked him to calm down, he said, I'd rather live alone, and she said, and.

So has no choice.

They got to the woods to try to conquer nature in the ways of all white men.

And it doesn't go well.

You know, the crops they don't grow, the animals mean as hell, and then the family starts to turn on each other and that's pretty brutal. And mostly they're angry at Tomlinson for bizarre reasons. You know, the sun is sexually attracted to her, that's weird. The dad he sells his wife's jewelry and then blames it on his daughter, effin coward. And then yeah, the mom is I really

The mom's really mad.

Okay, then it really just dissolves into atmospheric craziness where they're just picking at each other.

Mom breastfeeds a crow. More on that.

Later, people start dying, children die, want to stick into the woods by a witch?

How does a little sister die?

Little sister dies from just like they're praying over oh right, Caleb, and she like tells she's like insisting that they get down on their knees to do their prayers. And they just like fall over. They're just like they just like drop dead.

Yeah.

Wow, yes, just from the chaos of it all, the twin bond, it was, it's strange. Okay, so that's really spooky. And then Dad tries to fight a goat and it doesn't go well. It does pretty bad.

Dad dies from trying to fight the goat. And then yeah, it all ends with a showdown between Mom and thomasin.

Yeah, and Thompson wins, thank god, because honestly she deserves We'll get into more. Is this good for her film or not? And then yeah, and then it ends with the devil black the goat on the farm, coming with a.

Great question, what is that like to live? Deliciously?

Twich Tonson says, oh, yeah, look, yeah, I can't sign my name, but I'm in, and he's like, great, don't worry about it, babe, I got you. And she goes and has the naked rave in the woods with her new witch buddies and learns to fly. Honestly, the best possible ending for this story, and that is a crazy we can't of the witch.

The witch.

Yeah, and the first time we see her smile is when she becomes a witch. Finally, so I say it is yeah, but will with more on that.

In the episode she got a peekaboo smile and then right at the end and she's like, I'm actually free. You never have to watch another child ever again in life. I agree, what a choice. Okay, let's get into this movie. I was really excited when we sort of talked about doing this series.

Egress is a really interesting new like guy on the scene.

He comes along in his early thirties. I think he's thirty one thirty two when The Witch drops in twenty fifteen, and he had done a series of short films that were, you know, in his own words, not good, and then he made a proof of concept with Brothers and that sparks some attention.

Brothers becomes the.

Witch, and it was such a revelation for me this film because it has all of the things I like in a horror movie and have missed and I don't really think we've been served since a night.

Shamalan's The Village.

The Village, okay, which is a film I walked away loving, So prepare yourselves for whatever that might mean.

I was thirteen. I lo came Village. Also, Phila, I got Carmen's sisters. I love it. Yeah.

I was like, listen, it's creepy, it's weird, it's a lot of vibes. I don't think there are a lot of similarities between this film and The Witch and the village other than setting, but I had been missing the vibes, you know, and so to come back to a director who's.

All about atmosphere, I was really really excited.

Carmen, When did you first see this film and how did you feel after watching it?

You know, every October, except for this past October because I was I was on a cruise ship. Every October, I like to do a I like to do a Halloween you know, list of movies every day to challenge myself to watch. So about two years ago, you know, they were like, watch a movie about witches, and I was like, oh, well, I've always wanted to watch The Witch. Finally put it on and I loved it. I didn't fully and I was just saying this before we started recording.

What is it that you love about the movie specifically?

Oh, my gosh, so first of all vibes. We've been talking about the vibes. Okay, it is, in my opinion, the perfect example of you know, great cinematography, great sound design, great location, and just a perfect, perfect use of such a small budget as well. It blows my mind that this movie only has a four million dollar budget, right, yeah, And it looks as good as it does, and it's as like fully like it feels as fully fleshed out

Movie king makers.

Yes, yes, I love Christopher Nolan, but sometimes he needs to edit, okay, And you know, Robert Eggers really makes a great use out of these ninety minutes. And it really doesn't feel like any moment of the movie is wasted. It doesn't feel like anything is is indulgent or anything at all. It feels like each minute really takes you on a really awesome journey.

You know, I agree, and it sort of goes into what I love about this movie, but also a large critique of the film.

So yeah, one of the.

Biggest critiques of the film is they're like, oh, it feels draggy in points like it there are some and I don't mean like drag performances, I mean like it lags in some spaces. Yeah, like, yeah, there's two at aspheric, there are not there's nothing driving the story forward. I completely disagree. Like that's a really mind boggling statement. It's a feeling a lot of people have. But for me, what I love about the film is like a really

It's everywhere.

Like you can come to the Southwest and there's a lot of desert horror stories. There's a lot of mountain horror stories. These are vital. But I think for me, or at least in the way I was educated, I'm leaving a lot of caveats because I'm not a historian. I don't want to claim anything, but I think a lot of really great history comes out of Louisiana and our swamps are deep South spaces and New England and the woods.

I grew up in the woods. My backyard was a state park.

Oh wow, this is creepy.

Maybe making a lot of like cracky noises, things be slithering out, people disappear within, and he cantually embodies all of that, but he does it all of that tonally within the family dynamic, and what you're seeing and experiencing throughout this film is a family rejecting an out broken daughter.

He said that a big inspiration was, uh, the shining. Yeah, the shining.

He said he's embarrassed how much he sees the shining in this movie when he goes back and watches it, and.

Don't be embarrassed. Bro, Yeah, I don't you made it much cooler.

I don't want to say cooler, but yeah, like the choices you made to build on again, if you're a person who's costantly building a narrative.

I guess is I don't see any reason that taking.

From the best and yeah, yeah, twisting it in a way that makes it interesting and fun in a new way for your audience.

I think that's just storytelling.

Because I would have never have if I had not watched the interview where he talks about how much the Shining inspired him for this, I would have never really pieced that together myself.

It's not the first thing that comes to mind.

Yeah, because it's not even in the same sort of setting.

But yeah, not Yeah, the setting is different.

Your father, while a fanatic, is not necessarily a villain, right, And that's really interesting, Like he's really.

Trying to hold the family together, but also right the reason that they're out there.

Yeah, through a flawed pretense, Like he really believes if I love God enough and I am devout enough, then I will be able to do the thing that's been promised to me by my culture, the thing I left my home country to do, which is to establish this new land as a free space God. Okay, that totally makes sense for this character. And I think knowing that having a pious wife on top of that, who's clearly

For her movie kind of I think it is.

And then there's like two ways that I think you could interpret, like the ending of the movie, and there's a lot of foreshadowing throughout the movie. So the first way that I want to interpret it is that she is actually being led to becoming a witch the entire throughout the entire movie.

Oh yeah, and it's just.

Kind of like she's not even aware of it, but her fam what her family is accusing her of and all of this, She's subconsciously being led to becoming a witch by this witch in the woods, because there's the whole conversation where she like jokes about being the witch in the woods. We get all these familiars that are showing up to the house and seemingly trying to connect

You know, and like and.

All of the bad things that they've said about her, and all of these things become true because they've given her no other other option to explore.

I completely agree, And let's we'll pick up.

More on that when we come back, and we'll talk about Robert Edgars at the start of his career after this commercial break.

And when we're back. Okay, here we are.

Okay, So Mariger is really interesting kind of dude. I watched a ton of energies in preparation for our discussion, and something that kept coming up is people wanted to understand if I remember, this is before we have the Lighthouse, before we understand really more intently, the obsession with history with the Northmen. They were like, do you believe in witches? It is so like what which literature are you reading? And what about God? Like, what's your relationship with God?

Like?

And he was very fervent upfront, like I'm not going to talk about my faith, Like I'm keeping that private.

That's a choice I'm making.

It's a thing I think we'll come back to again and again in this series as we examine his films. I think people kind of can't help but want to know the artists behind the art. Particularly if you're struck by this, I will say what I I find really interesting about Edgar's the stuff that he does choose to reveal.

So one I watched a lot of interviews.

My favorite was an interview speech combo from BAFTA that he did in.

Like I think twenty nineteen.

It's after the Lighthouse but before the Northman, and in it he says that he's really happy that people view The Witch as a feminist film, despite the fact that he didn't set out to make a feminist film. He actually set out to make a film about literally the

The Witch to be this sort of secret thing.

So when you understand like that really opened up my head a little bit about how much impact because I didn't think the witches were having a lot of impact to you know, before we went to break, you were talking about how much she felt that Tomlinson had no other choice, she had to become a witch.

It's much more sinister to I think view film.

Oh, there's a plan happening behind all of this and it's working. Yes, How did you feel about like, if you walk away from this film, do you think there is and how do I want to I was gonna ask you if you think there's a villain, But I think that's a silly question.

I guess.

Here's the other thing that a lot of folks were sort of debating, is is this a horror film or not?

Right?

Is it a psychological thriller or a horror film? Is there something that's driving this in either direction?

For you? I see it as kind of both.

I feel like there it truly is in my opinion, it's like a good old classic horror film. But it does have those elements of psychological thriller in the sense that like the family's heads are constantly being fucked with, and and the mom is being messed with because of the death of her, her children, Thomasin is being messed with because of the being blamed for all of these

She she snatches donning, Yes she's sunnying. I too would follow Caleb Calees, Caleb, the eldest brother, Caleb. Yes, I would absolutely follow this gorgeh beauty into the woods as she were to promise me literally anything.

Yeah, it's it's very chilling. So I think it has elements of both. And then of course, like I didn't mention this at the top, but like people say, you know, you were talking about how people talk about how this is a slow burn and the movie doesn't really start until until Black Phillips shows up. And I disagree, because the movie within the first ten minutes, we kill a baby, we crush up the baby, and we're we're bathing our body.

Sound is horrible. Yes, the carbon the baby bones crushing in the being mashed into a pulp. Oh my god.

And so that just sticks with you. That sticks with you the whole rest of the time you're watching the movie. It's so creepy, like it's so scary yeah, the image of the witch like bathing herself in the blood, like it's scary.

Yeah, it's genuinely scary.

I think there's two key moments to me that's really set this up as a horror film. So one is the opening which Edgar's actually said that he did not want to do the introduction to the film. He fuck it really really hard. But they were like, we need to know what they left behind. We need to understand. This is for me a very key element. You understand who the father is, You understand what is being taken from Tomlinson. In this moment where she's like, I would

Meant kind of agrees with him.

But then part of me is like, dude, just suck it up and stay.

This is what it is to live in a society, sir. It's it's frequently sacrificing and coming to the middle on things.

Yeah.

No, this was clearly a foolish or immediately you're like, oh god, no. The second is the witch scene you describe. Egers grew up in New England, and he said that the story he was mentioned specifically coming across graveyards in the middle of the woods. He was like, you just kind of feel that all this stuff is alive and well.

I think the.

Cabin in the woods they shot in Canada, and he was saying that it was very difficult to find a location because you know, it's cheaper to shoot in Canada.

That's why way there are a ton of productions. They have a like really good tax back rate. But he needed the for it.

You know, he's a perfectionist when it comes to both history and like visuals.

It just needs to look right.

So we needed the forest to look like the forest from his childhood. So they wound up actually going to somewhere very very remote, which force the just sort of spent a lot of time together, so they got to sort of blend and become a family. Eggers talks about that. He makes two cardinal filmmaking sins. One is, don't shoot with children. They have very limited You can shoot for

It's very fairy can.

Actually do a great job in this movie. By the way, sensational actors.

If you don't know.

Eggres also has twin I know you know Karma, but audience members, if you don't know Eggres's twin brothers, they are also filmmakers.

One of them helped him write The Lighthouse.

And I think it's very funny that hes movie.

It's like Little Terrors.

I was like, I wonder if they little, Yeah, I wonder if they're special thanks in the film.

So I think, uh aware and somewhat okay with it, but uh yeah.

So like he he has established.

Oh the other thing that he did was work with animals, and the animals specifically the goat that played Black Philip.

Who frit I had his name Eric.

It's something very regular where you would be like that kid that name does not denote the absolute horror.

He put one of the actors in the hospital briefly. Yes, Charlie was the goat's name.

Thank you, and he didn't want to Froz why I see a lot of black Philip's scenes are by himself because they were like, yeah, the goat is doing things, record, record, but it kind of gives you an ominous feeling like, oh, the family is not observing what the goat is doing is evil and twisty, and they're not seeing its influence.

I love, love love that, Okay.

So I wanted to hear from Robert Eggers in his exact words. So this is a quote I pulled from the bathed speech he gave. Both my two feature films have very simple stories. The Witch is a very clear, simple story. The Lighthouse is almost void of a story. It's almost the same scene over and over and over again with changing power dynamics. So in my film, you need atmosphere for the world to survive, for the film to survive. The atmosphere is an accumulation of details that

Oh? Yeah, I mean, especially with this movie in particular, it is what gives you those feelings. It's what gives you those visceral feelings, and it's what the hair on the back of your neck stand up. The script alone, the setting alone, the actors alone aren't necessarily going to do that. But I really feel like one of the reasons why this is such an effective horror movie is because the atmosphere is like its own character. You know,

Yeah, I think to Egger's point, details, right, you know, if I blend what you're saying about, how the little things really drive a creep factor and also eliminate a chance of hope if the film is dependent on family and whether these bonds can come together to survive, you know, the crops failing and our mom choosing to breastfeed a bird, and there's eventually like there's just no sense of like where would the hope come from. It's not coming from

Yeah, it's a real special person.

Who when dirty and tired and hungry and not being able to provide for the family, which this is a guy who absolutely back to the forefront of his mind. It's like prospering for the family and supporting the family so they can go out and spread the word of God. Like, when all of that stuff is stripped of you, trying to be a good person and a good friend and a good family member becomes much much more difficult, and so the sniping, the weirdness, like all of it makes

But I think that's sort of what it.

Is to experience art is right to somehow either inject yourself viewing it or inject yourself actively into the narrative being told to you.

Yeah, and I think.

I guess had from this film on such a good grasp of how to do that and immerse you in it.

And also.

Because I really feel like Usually if a film is without hope, I feel so depleted by the end of it, you know, and maybe it's because of let's okay, we have to take another quick break, but when we come back, I want to talk about the ending and also sort of how we feel about Edgar's as a first time director.

Yeah, so we'll be right back.

What is thou like to live deliciously? The answer is immediately yes, yes, I don't know a woman who is like what he's like. I got cakes and sweets and pretty clothes. Girl, let's go say less. I don't know how to sign my name, but I guide my hand like I'm ready, right, Okay, I asked you earlier he thought this was a good for her movie. If I should have explained if you don't know. Good for her film is a film, usually of the horror genre, where at the end your final girl.

This is a girl who survives all of the horror.

Triumphs in a way the society might frown upon, but you, as an audience member who knows what she's been through.

Are awaited for her. Yeah, her, for me?

It really this resonates as a good for her. I think Carrie is a pretty great good for her. What's the one with the shotgun?

Is that pearl?

Pearl is probably a good for her?

Oh yeah, that's ready or not? It looks like ye, yes, yes, I have not seen.

Ready or not?

You not see Okay, Well, one day Car's gonna watch Ready or Not and we may have to go. I saw Ready, You're not at a I was a part of a secret screening for this where basically I didn't know what was going to be projected, and this came on and I was Ready or not as completely enthralling. I've derailed conversation once again. Final Girl films. My favorite final Girl film is Midsommar. I think I almost everyone is like, that's not a happy ending. I was like,

She got all she found sisterhood.

Okay, she's got a beautiful place out in the woods. Her family can no longer bother her. She's free. I love this ending. You said that you were unsure about the film when you start, when you first saw it. How do you feel about it? How did you feel about the ending originally, and how do you feel about it now?

I was confused as to like how we got to the ending. I was like, wait a minute, why did she choose why did she choose to go with black Philip? You know, why did she choose to become one of the witches? And I was I think just kind of like absent to a lot of the like way that her family berates her throughout the movie, and the way that they they even subconsciously are kind of blaming her for.

The dad hates that she's beautiful, she's so jealous and like, yeah, it's a lot.

And the mom hates that her baby, her youngest baby, was taken while under her daughter's care, and that's all kind of.

Like she did have somewhat reason to be mad.

I don't know that harfult, She's like pekaboo, supernatural elements were at of fact, ma'am anyway, I guess yeah, So, yeah, how do you feel about it?

Oh?

I completely understand it, And that's why I do feel like now I can confidently say it's like a good for her movie because whether or not she was being subconsciously led to becoming a witch or she chose to become a witch. After the events of you know, all of the Ship, her, the grief that her family put her through, she is finally has her own, you know, kind of her own.

She has her own.

Friend, agenda, her own yeah, and she gets she literally gets to fly.

At the end, I was my breath was taken away. I was like, look at her, like wow, and she's happy.

She's free. It was like the first asked her to do anything weird. She don't have to watch no children, she don't have to clean no houses. She had a mad ask kill. Like, so far, life's looking pretty good for her. And life was looking pretty good for Robert Eggers at the time as well.

Uh. This was a.

Huge coming out for him. He won uh Best Director at Sun Dances for a first time director, I mean tremendous. He comes out. Also, it's a star vehicle for Anya, which people will often credit the director. He credits the casting team in the UK. But it was great and he comes back with the Lighthouse. I think I was really anticipating The Lighthouse premiered at TIF.

I was there.

I was very excited. I think there was a lot of buzz. It was going to be completely different, but you know, a lot of similarities. He was doing black and white. He was willing to stretch himself. I think this was a director who, to me, felt unafraid to try things that were going to be weird and difficult for people to understand. And also somebody who had such a grasp on tone that even if his stories were not groundbreaking, they were sort of entertaining at that Shakespearean level.

So yeah, Eggar's first time director pretty great. I love The Lighthouse. It's a great movie.

I just watched it this past October for the first time. I'm late to a lot of a lot of stuff something that was either me and I loved The Lighthouse, and I'm going to watch again. But I think that this movie is, like so far, my favorite movie out of all of his filmography, and I haven't seen notes for Autu yet, so that could change. But I just think for this to be a director's first feature length film, it's absolutely it's amazing. I mean it's incredible. Yeah, it's a Triumphal.

Carmen, thank you so much for being here and doing this with me. I had a lot of fun talking to you today.

It was a lot of fun. I can't wait to talk about The Lighthouse. So yes, thank you Joel for joining me and live deliciously.

Y'all join us back here tomorrow.

What We're going to hop in our speeders and check out the pilot for Star Wars Skeleton Crew. Then on Wednesday, abook is this is a guy through the next episode of.

Dune and Prophecy.

Thursday, we're going to take a look back at the comic books and novels of twenty twenty four that.

Stuck with us. Then come back and join us.

On Monday, Carmen and I are going to break down Edgar's next film, The Lighthouse.

That's our EPP. So thanks for listening. Bye bye.

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