Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for the first episode of Dune Prophecy on Max and HBO and the Wider Dune Cannon, so be warned.
Wild Cannon guys, Wild Cannon.
Hello, my name is Jason Concepsiode.
And I am Mersey Nights of the Benny Jesuit.
They're not called that yet and welcome back to ext revision of the podcast when we Dive dee Vinny your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture coming from my art podcast. We're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday Thursday, with an extra episode every Wednesday.
In today's episode, we are joined by super producer and dune expert Aboo. How's it going.
It's going super well.
I love to hear it.
I'm your local mentet. If you're our BENI Jess, that's right, and.
Jason is obviously are chosen one. In the airlock. We will be deep diving into that recap of Doom Prophecy episode one, and boy does a lot of has stuff happened. I'm glad Aboo is here to help us through so much. Law the kids love law and HBO delivered with the Law in the omnibus Aboo's gonna take us through some of the Toms Easter Eggs references that you may have missed in this very dense, dense first episode of the Dune Prophecy Program.
In the words of the Great British Breaking Show, it's quite stodgy this episode. Let's step out of the air lock and talk about it. We open with narration in the wake of the human victory over Ai and the great but Lerian Jihad, when the humans have overthrown the Thinking Machine.
Pretty crazy to see that according.
To legend or history. Why don't we have any history? Nobody wrote anything down. We're not here anyway. According to the propaganda that it exists, it was in a tradese who led human forces to victory in this wonderful grand victory over the Thinking Machines Akaai. The Harconans, who we have to admit are kind of scumbags and a lot of the stories that we know from the Dune universe, were somehow branded as cowards for their behavior during this
war and were exiled to a planet that sucks. Valia harconin one of these spends these years in the wake of the war helping to build an organization of women who task themselves with guiding political events in the galaxy. They are trained as soothsayers. Basically, they're human light detectors, and through a marketing campaign, which we do not see, get themselves assigned.
Let's see the marketing campaign, guy, we.
Need to see the marketing campaign of their early benage, of their years of like, you got it. Have one of these soothsayers. Wow, I just got a soothsayer, and I know the truth you.
Need in your house.
Yeah, no one.
Will ever trick you again. That will be a cool woman wearing a spooky uniform, and she will tell if everybody is telling them, we.
Need that marketing cafe. Anyway. By the time that our story commences, these women are already being placed with various important houses throughout the galaxy. The word lands rat is not used, but I think we can assume that this collection of great houses probably exists. Yes, Mother Riquella is the first mother superior of this organization, and it is
her mission. She creates the mission of this group to curate the genetics of the various royal houses so that they can put in force a kind of eugenics program.
Yeah, Messiah, eugenics program to.
Create future royal who are in obviously influential and powerful positions, but are also pliable in some way I guess, genetically suggestible, so that the Sisters can wield influence. Do I have it write aboo so far?
Yeah, that's a pretty good summary of it. I think the show itself really glosses over and rushes past a lot of this Mother Raquella stuff because this is from the book from Sisterhod of Dune, written by Brian Herbert
Kevin J. Anderson. And the important point that the show doesn't hit on is that Mother Raquella is so important and her legacy overshadows the Sisterhood so much because she is the first ever Reverend Mother, as in, she has taken Spice, just like Jessica does in the movie right, and she has survived that ordeal, the Spice agony quote unquote, and has come out the other side with abilities, with access to her other memories, with all of those Reverend
mother abilities that we know, and she's the first to ever achieve it. I the show never mentions that I wouldn't.
Like to spend it an hour with her an opening episode about her and yeah and her journey.
So Abu does she not have. So she has genetic memories from that extend beyond her own memories, but they're probably not that extensive because this hasn't been going on that long.
Right, that's correct? Yeah, I mean she presumably has genetic memories down her female line, like every Reverend mother who has gone through the agony.
Right, but not the collected memories.
Not the collective Benny jesret right, So that is like Rickella is the start of that. She initiates that program and spends most of the book. The show doesn't address this at all and just assumes we're past it, but spends most of the book trying to figure out how the fuck do I make more Reverend Mothers because everyone I keep giving spice to keeps dying.
Got to drink ato spice, right.
And they keep dying. So they're trying to figure out the right formula and dosage. And I see, by the time we get to where this show picks up, Valia herself has been only the second to ever survive it.
I think, Oh, and we haven't learned that yet. That might be a flashback.
That might be a flashback.
So Mother Raquella as she is dying calls for Valia, who appears to be her favorite of the sisters.
Over her own door.
That's right, yes, tough, look the sister. Valia shares Mother Superior's dedication to this genetic project. Raquella tells Valia that tyran erfl It's coming end quote, and then she has these various dying visions of like a huge sandworm swallowing the city and glowing eyes in space that speak in a kind of garbled language. She comes back to reality and grips Valia's hand and asks her to grow the sister its power and to protect it as it goes forward.
Apparently tyran erfl is some kind of prophecy of holy judgment, a reckoning, and a tyrant who will rule the galaxy.
Can I just interject him? Because I think this is one of the funniest things about making a show like this. Personally, I liked this episode a lot, and I felt like they do hold up the suspense, mostly due to density and confusion. But I do think it's really funny that they basically just tell you, like Pola Tredees is the bad thing that's coming, so early on in the show.
It's like, we know where Dune is going, and if you've read the books, you know, so basically we're just going to be having the dramatic irony of watching them create their own downfall, which I think is like an interesting thing to lay out so early on.
I agree with you, and I will say that part of my I think that there's a good show that will emerge here, and I think this first episode is a bit of a mess, but I did really enjoy the vibes.
It's a good vibe show, and I think the.
Vibes will grow. That said, I think there's a lot of suspense building by like dropping these little clues and it's like, oh, you can find out why this is such a big deal. Yeah, And I think that is, in my opinion, a mistake. I think they should have said, here's what the big thing they're worried about is, so you can share in that. Because there's a there's so much download that you're like, does that matter? Does that matter?
What is that? There is a lot of vagary ching around to try and understand what's important, what's not, what are they freaking out about? And I think they needed to set that stage early. And then there's also the other thing of ladies. It's gonna be ten thousand years from now. Don't don't worry about it, stress that far, you know what I mean, Like, let's trump the break somebody.
Else in your order. She is gonna just take it upon ourself to do it anyway, So don't worry about it.
Can you wait until tomorrow?
Probably?
Yeah?
Probably?
Yeah.
I do think that's gonna be the most interesting thing is like how can they hook us into this world when we already know where we're going, And that's the cust of all prequels. I do think that the visual world building and as you put it, Jason, the vibes, which I think we are into a vibe show, and that side of it really did suck me in, like I want to spend time in this world, which I think is really important.
It's a lot like foundation where yes, just looking at it great, I can just continue need to look at it because I want to continue to just even beyond the storytelling, like the visuals.
Or another immense law show.
Yes. Valia orders a small group of sister collaborators to begin a plot to raise an empress who will rule over the imperium. Apparently Sister Dorotea is on the outside of this plan. She's going to be a problem because she disagrees with a lot of stuff, including the genetic project.
She's like, we're meant to be just humble witches, guys, we're not supposed to be becoming eugenesis doctors.
She probably has why did you join this group? Then? Like this is kind of what the group project is Dorotea.
I think her mom is Riquela. I don't know if she had a law of choice.
Yes, So there's a lot of clues and hanging mysteries regarding her as well. At the funeral for Mother Raquela, Dorotea and her acolytes make it clear that hey, mother Superior's dying wishes, we're not down. We don't like that, We're not going to do it. Conflict clearly shaping up. Valia finds now Mother Dorotea, so she did she drink the spice or no, she just took the mantle on, but she hasn't done any of the stuff.
Correct, which shows like her disrespect for the version of the sisterhood that was before. Now she's like, I'll just take it on, yeah and do something different.
Yeah, And again there's potential for more flashback that flashes this out. But Dorotea is also the other Volley and Dorotea are the two next sisters to do the stuff and become the next reverend mothers in the books. In the books, and then there's a power struggle. There's a schism in the sisterhood and it's Dorotaea vers Valia.
Interesting again, skimm Dova in the last ten minutes of this episode.
Yeah, so Dorotea is like, we should just be, in Rosie's words, humble witches who guide the imperium. We don't want to like ruling it from the shadows. That's overstepping. And so in service of my vision for this organization, I'm going to go into the genetic archive and I'm going to destroy it. And Valia is like, no, you're not. She used stops her from doing it.
She's like, I don't know that.
I'm not gonna get her that something she invented.
Yeah, she invented the voice. She's the first person to ever use it live.
Is that true to the Bookaboo?
That is true to the book.
Yes, Okay, so she's been developing the voice apparently, like doing R and D in secret she's so, this is the first live test of the voice and it's successful.
I want to know how have she been practicing it? Because if she they get those prisoners from the imperium. Oh, that's true, she's just been making them do horrible stuff. Yah, she's a villain. They they if you felt like the Penguin on HBO Max, that was real villain centric show. I feel like this is following on in that in great terms.
So Valia's like, well, listen, the voice pretty cool? Right, you were like this is pretty sick.
Wouldn't you want to do this?
Don't you want to learn how to do this? Right? I will teach you how to do it? If you just let us do the gen nick thing, can we do it? Dorte is like no, I will never agree to that. So Valias like ten stands us up of the neck and she's dead, and she does go on and the other sisters come running, not knowing Maybee the voice has been used. They don't even know about the voice, and they're just like, oh my god, dort kill herself. This is crazy.
Guess we can just do our plan now. This is convenient.
Yeah, I'm fast forward thirty years.
Yeah, my read of it is those three women that run along. I think they at least heard the voice, or they have some suspicion that Valuo was involved. But that plan is essentially like getting an empress to be in charge of the imperium is the most important thing. So we'll keep this between us, and like people in a slasher movie, in thirty years, someone's gonna come up and be like, bro, did you kill someone? And it's going to be a problem. And now it's that years later. That's a crazy time jump.
So now it is thirty years later, one hundred and sixteen years after the end of the Butlery and Gie hot aka Machine War, and it's like ten thousand plus years before Paul and Tree's again, not that big of an emergency. Obviously, we don't want it to happen, but guys, we had ten grand And also.
Guys, he was born early anyway, so it was supposed to be that next generation. So he's like even then, it's still a long time, guys, even though he came ali.
So in the intervening years, Valya has taught the sisters how to use the voice, and the Order has only grown in power and influence. We now have sister soothsayers very much in demand across the galaxy.
Everyone has on it.
Everyone has one. You gotta get.
It's like a tamagotchi. Everyone wants on you.
Well, the Harkonans have not got one, and you think they're probably thinking, well, hold on, Valia, you're one of us. What the fuck can we get a soothsayer? And they've asked numerous times and Valua is like, for the fourth time, no, no,
fuck yourself. Interesting interesting development. Yes, Imperial guards arrive, including the prince Lord Constantine, who is he's hung the half brother of the Princess Ynez who will soon be a student here at the not yet ben a Jesuit order, and he's here to just inspect the facilities and make
sure everything's fine for the arrival of his sister. Lord Constantine is like, my sister's got to have her own quarters, she's got to have her own cell phone, she's got to have a prince, she's got to have.
A she needs a special seat that's riped off so no one else can sit in all.
Of that stuff. She needs a toilet seat that warms up and all that stuff. And Valuys like spa days and Volley's like, absolutely not. She's just gonna be a normal sister like everybody else. And Lord Constant's like, okay, well I tried.
Yeah, He's like I had to try it.
He wasn't that.
He's very chill guy. He tried, and he's like, yeah, I tried. Later to lahar Conen, Valia's sister is teaching the students how to strategically guide events in the Councils of the Powerful by lying and understanding the difference between lies and the truth, and understanding when to use each and how to shade truth with lies and how to shade lies with truth, et cetera. Her sister Valia comes down and says, hey, the Emperor deal, we got it sealed.
Princesses common She's gonna be living here. It's gonna be great.
Okay, bo, can I ask you a quick question. Ye are the women that we see in that sequence? Are all of those women actual characters from the books?
No, there's a lot of original characters.
Okay.
It felt to me like this was kind of a adding kids to the Magic School section. It didn't necessarily feel like they were coming directly from the book, So thank you for that.
We go to Seleusis Secundas, which apparently is the Emperor's throne world and will in the future, I believe, be the place where they make his imperial guards. Is that correct?
That's correct. The planet mysteriously gets nuked to oblivion and becomes like the Healthscape prison planet.
Fun.
Okay, Swordmaster here into Tradees is sparring with Princess Ynez and let me tell you, Oh they're sparring. He's using more than just the sword.
Is dead Pool Wolverine levels of we're having a fight, but really we're having sex.
Focus on my body, he says, yeah.
Focus on.
The chemistry. Is that this is seems like she's having a good time.
Constantine comes back and he's like, just came back from the school. Were elsewhere. The Emperor is having a meeting with the Duke of Riches.
A space venus.
Hey, yah, you're gonna love the matter. You're gonna love him. And if you are marrying princess to my charm, beautiful, I give you the ships.
You need the sheep negotiation.
You need my ballist, the ships and knows that the Cussi fall the iracas and you get the spies and the spies are gonna flow, So apparently the emperor is hard up for warships the emperor. So this is a good point where we can ask a question. I think because I think you hear emperor and you think unchecked power. But the emperor in the world of Dune is hamstrung by the power of his subordinates, the power of the
great houses. Could you explain to us exactly why this emperor seems so weak and unable to provide his own armaments.
And machinations with other houses.
Yeah, yeah, couple of reasons. One, Jason, You're correct, there's like this tenuous political tripod of this universe. You have the Emperor and his forces, which is currently hous Carino on one side. Then you have the lands Rod, which is the collection of great houses, the trades, the Harconins, there are jay Z's. And then you have a group we haven't seen in this show, but is very present in the books and we saw it in the Villna films, the Spacing Guild, who have a monopoly on all travel.
And you have these three powers sort of precariously working with and against each other at all times. And so the Emperor isn't so powerful that he can just stomp over the Guild or the Lancerod any day he chooses, he has to work with them. His hands are tied.
The second reason we're seeing sort of a weaker house Carino and a weaker Emperor at the moment is because we've just come off the tales of a machine war that SAPs the resources of all of humanity basically right, soldiers, money, everything we came from, back from essentially the brink of enslavement and destruction at the hands of machines and House Karno was pivotal in doing that, but very likely sacrifice the most in doing that as well. So they've obtained
power but at great cost. And now they may control Aracus and Spice, but that doesn't mean they are objectively the most powerful people out there right now.
So they need the ships they need there cheesy ships. While this is happening, we see that Kasha, the Emperor soothsayer and Duke with Chesy's soothsayer like finger signaling to each other and they're like, this fucking duke is a real asshole listening, and she's like, yeah.
In case you didn't realize, the Duke of Richesi, you're selling his child, and.
The Duke's in sooth series like, you don't even know the half of it. I work with this guy all the time. He's a piece of shit, and Kasha has to be like, well, listen, once the marriage is over and we're clear of that, we can take care of this guy. Whatever gom Jabar in the neck, we poison, whatever the case might be, we get rid of him.
But we just got to get this wedding going. The Emperor then consults with Kasha over the ballistas and whether it's worth marrying his beloved daughter Ynez to the Duke of Richesi's son, and they confer and he goes over to the Duke of Riches. He's like, okay, let's do it, my daughter for the ships. Yeah.
And it's very clear now that he is fully under the thrall of the Benajezra at this point, or at least takes them pre be prey the Sisterhood. Let's call him the Sisterhood.
I wouldn't even say the thrall. I just think he is. Again, he's a weak emperor vying with powerful political forces that are ostensibly his subordinates but have agency on their own, and he just doesn't know where to turn. And I think Kasha has given him good advice to this point, and he's got to get the spice to flow.
Yeah, and sort of living in the shoes of his predecessors, like he didn't win the machine war his the Karnos before him did, and he just inherited being emperor, so he didn't like get here on his own savvy or political and military might. He's just inherited it.
Back on Wallack nine, where the Sisters live, we see that they are learning combat techniques and other subtle techniques in order to influence people. Sister Jen, during a session in which they take the Imperial prisoners and discover whether lying or not, thinks that all this soothsaying shit is too easy. It's way this way too easy. Come on, when are we going to ramp it up? Vol was like, okay, let's show us lie to us and tell us something. And she's like, oh yeah, well you know why I'm here.
I'm here because I have fucking murdered my parents and I murdered my I walk into a McDonald's, I killed everybody blood and I put the blood in a super sized cup and I drank the blood out of that and I put ice it. And then I put the blood on my chicken nugget and I put ice cream on it.
Yeah, the bloody frosty.
Yeah.
And all the sisters are like, I don't know, I can't tell. I can't tell if that's true or not. And she's like it's a lie.
Ah bitch, she's crazy.
Later, Empress Natasha talks to the princess about the wedding. She's like, I hate all of this. I hate the wedding. I hate you going to the sisterhood school. This kid's nine. He's nine. The Chesy boy is nine.
And he's got name threw it, ri Chesy. That's just a dumb es.
Are you fucking kidding asking me your husband.
She's like, I am here in the world of Dune, and guess what my name is, Natasha, just like Duncan. Yeah, Paul, I'm one of the people with a normal name. Your name's like kind of cool, Inns. It's not crazy, I know if you Andezza's in real life. But she's like through it, ri Chesy, like this is what you're doing. And also I think this is really interesting because the mom is basically like, you don't have to do this.
You can just marry whoever you want your royalty, like, just live my life, don't live what your father wants. And I think that's interesting because that sets up that battle between the mom and then the influence of these witches.
So the princess has a completely different point of view, which is she loves it. She wants to marry the boy. In fact, she wishes the boy was like three years old instead of nine, so she could have six extra years influencing him and molding him and.
Being in the bensnany jesuit at school.
Yeah, turning his heart and brains into servants for the Kreno. Cause she's like, this is fucking awesome. Mom's like fine, but also admit to me that you want to fuck You're a Tread's swordmasters, right, I could see it. You should do it. Yeah, I support it. And by the way, everybody could see it. Kuran, the swordmaster, walks in and he tells the Emperor that a guy just arrived from Oracus and it's Jason Momoa. No, it's not.
Like, look at this man, isn't he Jason Momo? From behind? No, I knew it wasn't him.
We have at home.
Yeah, exactly, that's right. This is Wish Jason Momo.
This is t WU Jason Ravola. This is Houston Street Jason Ravola. He is Desmond Hart. He is a twelve tour veteran of the battlefields of Iracus, where he's been fighting Fremen and just recently his entire squadron was totally wiped out by a Fremen attack. And guess what, Desmond Hart the only guy who fucking survived. He's a little he's a little amped up, a little weird, but you're gonna like him. Hart has a meeting with the Emperor and he says, guess what, Emperor, it wasn't Fremen, it
was your own allies. It was other forces from the great Houses who were secretly put on Iracus to undermine you. And the Emperor is like what. He goes over and talks to Kasha, is like, Kasha, is this true. She's like, well, he's telling the truth and what he thinks is the truth, so who knows? And she's like, why haven't I heard a thing about this? And she's like, well, maybe it's an isolated incident. Sounds is a weird.
Thing, very suck.
Yeah, I don't get that.
I just want to say I love Mark Strong. He's one of my favorite actors. He's great in the Penguin. Love to see him here. Love that he's getting to plan an emper Good for him. But this emperor is dumb. If this man walked in and was like, hey, so everybody else who was a witness to this diede but here's my version of it that no one else can support. And then the Empress like, come to my wedding, Come to my door's wedding.
I'm like, why is he invited? Don't I agree with you? So yeah, heart is like, hey, do you want your very own Jason Momoa in the palace? Give me a job here, And the Emperor is like sure.
Sure, I'm too busy for this.
And in fact, you don't just get a job, you get to show up to my fucking daughter's wedding to a nine year old. This is gonna be an awesome time, great food, great drink, incredible. Kasha has a dream that includes a lot of really ominous symbols, including fruit filled with worms and the princess being devoured by a sand worm, and then those glowing eyes with a strange voice in space.
She goes to speak to the princesses like, I'm leaving because there's weird signs and dreams importance and I gotta go back. The vibes are off. I got to talk to the sisterhood about it. I'll be back, but listen, we hope you become empress. You're well on your way, and I'll be back shortly. Okay. The Emperor is really
vexed that Kasha has left, but apparently she'll be back. Yeah, he just she leaves her like a message, like on a mini disc, and he's like, what this is fucked up, But apparently she's only going to miss the engagement party, not the actual wedding itself, so okay. The Emperor Empress. They argue about this wedding. The Emperor is for it because he needs the arichesy.
Shit he needs and the galaxy the best.
And a cheesy ship and go to bring a rackets to his knees uh, and the prisons against it because the groom is nine.
He's like, come on, and she's like, this is just some dumb Betty jesureite plot. I'm not into this. She's like, well, if I don't always happy, and he's like, she wants to do it, We'll be happy with.
Cheesy and again, we'll talk about the various storytelling decisions later. But I think part of the reason that particular conflict doesn't land too much is because your daughter wants to do it. Anyway, We go back to Wallack and Tula and Valier strategizing for the princess's arrival. Who do we pair her with? Who's your friend? Et cetera. You know this. The acolyte program is apparently a very important program. Emmeline, No, she's a bad influence. It's a bad apple. What about
Sister Jen. Sister Jen is a little too independent, but obviously very very talented. What about Theodosia? Okay, hold on, now, she owes us for some reason which we will clearly find out about later. And she's apparently Vali's favorite, So guess what It's probably gonna be Theodosia, although Tula's favorite is Lila. Okay. Valia thinks that Lila is weak and afraid. Okay, so there's gonna be a difference of a pity there, and Tula says, well, she has a lot of promise,
but she just needs time. I don't know that we've really landed on who the acolyte for the princess is gonna be, but clearly we're in a horse race between Lila and Theodosia. Rumbling then announces the arrival of the ship that shouldn't be here. It's Kasha. She's like, I had a really crazy dream. Let me tell you about it.
She's clearly very afraid. Kasha is concerned that the reckoning, which is ten thousand years from now, if that's the thing they're talking about, might be closer if they do the thing that they're doing, which is putting an empress on the throne in the genetic machinations. They think that they're going to have a hard time getting the princess on the throne, which is why it's crucial apparently that the princess marry this nine year old that.
Kasha is like, don't do it. She's like beginning to have her downs because of She's like, well, if a kid just has bad vibes.
I had a crazy dream, and maybe we shouldn't do this. One thing that we should do is toss to an ad break. We're going to go to a word from our sponsors back in a second, and we're back, and the cheeses are back. The Chesy's a back, Baby Cheesy's arrive. It's the engagement party, a wonderful event. We get her. Look at Pruit, this young nine year old chesy boy. The princess is there, she looks great. The Empress the loving that dress, that red dress is about you're in
a Tread's all there, Tula back on Wallach. Tula and Vala argue about the importance of Castia's dream. Tula is like, we got to take them more seriously, don't we. Let's pump the brakes and just really analyze what we're doing. He says, all gas, no breaks. We go forward. The princess is marrying that little boy, and she's the empress we need and we got to do it. Tula is like, okay, but can you just go and check the genetic archive to just make sure that we're right. Yeah, yeah, I'll
go check here. The princess and Pruitt go through with the engagement ritual. It is super awkward. It involves like feeding pomegranate seaberries to each other something. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't go smoothly. Preuit in particular does not seem keen to wed at this particular time, which I get it. He's nine, and it's very awkward, but there's lots of applause because obviously a lot of right is writing on us. Later, Constantine is playing the lute, and the ladies fucking love
that shit. When he gets the.
Loot out, Pruit sisters are really into it, and I think.
He's a good looking kid. Lord he is.
He's hunky and he's got a very strong jaw line.
The Emperor is watching all of this closely. He's watching the richeses very suspiciously. The Princess, who is sitting on a little Dais couch with Pruet, notices that he's messing around with his little pouch on his belt, Like, what the fuck's that? I can tell that you're being untruthful right now and trying to hide whatever is in your little fucking belt pocket. And he's like, okay, it's this, and he pulls out a little robot lizard that runs
around the room and runs around the floor. Mister Hart Desmond Heart Timu Jason Momoa stabs it with a knife and then shows it to everybody, and everybody is shocked because this is apparently forbidden robot shit, you know, coming off the Robot Wars, you're not supposed to have stuff.
It's actually like scared in as when she saw it, She's like when the unfelt from the hand, she was like terrified.
These are the things that tried to enslave us. How what the fuck? You can't have shit like this? And House Karno, obviously because of their role in guiding the galaxy to victory of the machines, takes this kind of stuff very seriously. The Empress is like, this is forbidden. This is forbidden. We're Chesy's we might have to throw you in the dungeon. The Emperor is like, oh who whoa wha who Let's talk about it after the marriage.
Yeah, okay to a child. Yeah, I'm married to this child.
It's like, obviously it's a big deal. Yes, talk about it later, but he is clearly concerned. Heart gives the boy back his little robot. Here's a moment I didn't understand. Prude is like, thanks Eniz for what.
No, no, no, no no. She when the mom is like talking about it being forbidden technology and trying to set the gods on them, she puts him behind her back and like protects him, but then she turns around and says to him, if I see that thing again, I'll kill you myself murder. So that was a bit complex to me, But I think she's playing the political game where she was protecting per It because it's like, this is my guy that I'm gonna get married to,
and we have to have some kind of loyalty. But also you're fucking with my ship, which is that I want to go to the Hearken.
And I just found it weird because obviously Ynes blew up his spot. It's weird to thank her in that moment. Anyway. Valia is like, hey, just check the archive, and I just want you to know, like legit, like the princess is the right one. We're good.
Oh and with zero evidence, like bay, yes please.
Tula wants Kasha back at the Emperor's side, like we got to have her there. Valia says, yes, we'll obviously we're gonna put her back when he place her back with the Emperor, but we got to make sure that everything is okay with her upstairs because these dreams, I guess are a little concerning. Sister Emmeline and Jen are complaining about the princess looming arrival on campus. So we got to get the idea that this is a controversial thing that's going to happen here at the school. Constantin
and Yinez head into town for a party. This is wild raving. Yes, spare fucking. They snort some imperial booger sugars. So, I guess what do we think this is? Like spice cocaine? Maybe, yeah, like.
Some drugs caught with spice. Aboo is there anything like this in the books.
There are a lot of drugs in the books. Yeah, Frank Kreber was not about drugs. This could be sumuta, this could be a laca blah blah blah. Like there's a lot of deep cut, lower drug things. But it just looks like, okay.
Straight up, they're just doing good. So they go to a club. The club is banging. Meanwhile, the Emperor is like brooding by himself. He's so sad. He's like, Kash is not here, Who do I trust?
Well?
What about Desmond Heart? Dosnet Heart comes in?
What about your wife? Sah, how about you have a conversation with your wife?
Well, he says, there's apparently, yeah, there's apparently a problem between those two. But Desmond Heart comes in and is like, I can tell you're afraid, which is like a weird thing to start with. The Emperor asks Heart, Okay, what do we do about this insurgency on Aracus that you say is not fremen. Heart doesn't answer, but he's like, well, that's not your only problem. Here's what your actual problem is.
Your problem is that other great houses in the lands rad are grumbling because you made them get rid of their cell phones and their laptops and all that stuff. And they are like, we like that stuff. We want it back, we want all.
That life is hard without.
Yeah, and I guess this is aboo. Is this pre the Mentat system?
This is around the Mentats. Yeah, everything sort of crops up at once, the sisters, the Mentats that guild all of these things that replace technology.
So at this point they're doing like space calculations, like on pad and paper, Like, how are they just like calculators? I mean they're doing it, Longhand at this point.
No, the Mentat should exist. But we haven't seen any of the show. Okay, so I don't know what the creative choice is there.
We may see them okay later, So whatever the case, there are various dissidents within the royal system who think that getting rid of Ai was a bad idea, and they think that the emperor having the monopoly on spice is also a bad idea, and the Emperor is like, I've never heard of this. This leads me to believe, along with the Glowing Eyes boo, that the major antagonist is going to be the Spacing Guild, like the Rise of Space.
That's a good I like that.
That would be fun for them to introduce that.
Yeah, yeah, the Emperor is now like, you know what, Kasha is not here and I've completely changed my mind. I'm out on the wedding.
Dude, this guy he has got like no fucking backbone, Like he doesn't know what is going on. He's like, Kasha has left me for five minutes and I'm sick of it. I'm done. Actually now, fake Jason Hama. You are now my new spiritual guide even though I've only known you for.
You're my new guy, and I'm out on the wedding despite the fact that Kasha, who has never steered me wrong, is for it. But here's the issue.
Needs those riches a ship the riches of ships.
It's important. And here is like one of these moments where I felt a producer saying we need to restate the stakes because I don't understand what's at stake here. And so he says again, we need the riches ships because if I pull out of this marriage, we don't get the ships. And then we need the ships to secure ourragas and secure the spies. Because the Emperor can underlived the Spice. I'm a dead I'm a dead man.
I'm a dead man. You'll come to me on the day of my daughter's engagement, but.
I can't have the spice ad This is terrible. Desmond Hart says, Emperor. I'm gonna tell you some weird shit because I've been on a planet of spice for a long time and now I'm just gonna get crazy. Here's what's crazy. It's a miracle that I'm alive and then I'm with you right now because I was almost dead. I was reborn on Arakis. They almost killed me. I was there for twelve different tours and somehow I died
a million times. And I'm back. He's back, and I feel that it's the will of the gods that I am here with you, Emperor Carino, and the Emperor says, well, listen, I'm not a religious man, but if the gods can get me out of this wedding to the a chesy child, oh I will be literally the biggest religion guy in the galaxy. Like I will be number one religion.
My god, my, this fucking guy. This is like, this is like when you're a little kid and you're in trouble and you're like, oh please, I don't want anyone to find out I'm gonna be in trouble. Like then I will like be a good person. I'm like, how old are you?
Brow?
Are you like eight years old? You literally just gave this guy a free pause to do whatever he wants to stop the wedding, just so that you can be like really into religion. Like, Mark strong, Emperor, you're doing a bad job.
Mark strong Emperor, you are you are not a great emperor. In the club where literally most of the people here are off fam they are Kieran is there. He clearly got the text from Yez is like going.
To the club, I'm gad to see you there.
And there's a vibe there is there is an extremely strong vibe between them. Kieran's girlfriend question Mark is like over his shoulder, being like, why are you flirting with the princess? Like do I need to explain this to you? So that was confusing because clearly the vibe I was hey, boyfriend girlfriend, but there was no explanation to who this woman behind Kieran was. Right, miss, I would say, it.
Is quite interesting to me that this is a show, even after a couple of watches, where like they choose to do a lot of exposition about some stuff but be very vague about other stuff. And I guess that's every show, but it felt like in this when it was like we need the spice, the spice must flow, and I'm like, bro, everyone who's ever watched Dune or read even one bit of Dune knows the spice must flow,
even if you only know the memes. But I would also like to like know some names, so like can the names be flowing?
Yeah? Like who is this woman who looks upset? Anyway, Kieran if he is dating that woman, he's not particularly attached to her, because he immediately goes to a private room with Princess Ynez. He smokes some space crack and then they start having sex crazy. They seize the moment. She's like, I'm leaving forever probably in a days, go into the Benny not yet. The Benny Jes are at school and also marrying this nine year old, So if we want to get it in, we kind of have to get.
It in right now.
Let's do it now, and Kurtt is like, bet, let's go. We go to Wallach nine, where it's nighttime. We meet Lila. She can't sleep. Jen also up notices that Lila can't sleep. He's like, what's your deal. Lila says, that story that you told, which was a lie, there's a ring of truth to it and I could tell. And then Lila tells her story about how she got here. She doesn't know who her parents are. She thinks that the sisters know her family history but are keeping it from her.
Jen says, don't worry because if it's important enough, the truth will find you, which is cold comfort. Valia is staring at mother Raquela's statue or mummy and just thinking about the future. Is it her mummy? Do we know? Like it seems like a very lifelike statue in a weird way. Yeah, I think it's just a statue, okay, but I like your spooky v that it's a mummy. The Emperor has a bad dream that involves a lot of the imagery which we have seen previously in the
two previous bad dreams we've watched. He then goes wandering on the palace and he finds a video from Desmond Heart about how he survived on Oracus, and he watches the video taken like from a drone, I guess, and we see that there's a lot of dead bodies on the field. We don't see what happened, but Desmond Heart's walking around, he's the only guy. There's a spice loader in the background. And then there's like a huge worm
that is clearly coming, and something happens. The worm seems to pause, but then also seems to attack, and then the video cuts out. Clearly Desmond is alive. So this raises a lot more questions than answer.
Does this mean that he wrote to sand No, I think all of this is up in the air.
It's intentionally one of those you'll find out later, Okay, yeah, thanks.
Yeah, So elsewhere in the palace proven it is playing like in a hallway with his robot because apparently like he can't do it in his room because people will find out. So he's playing with his robot and Desmond Heart comes up. Prewe It is like, hey, Desmond Hart, I don't know you, but you're just like a weird, strange man in the palace. Let me tell you about my dad. Here's what's up. My dad thinks we should never have gotten rid of computers and cell phones and he wants them back.
Thinks that great, he would thinks everyone should have a little airom.
Yeah, that stuff's got to come back. Heart says, you know, it's interesting. I was a soldier on Oracus and prewe It is like, well, why are you here and he's like, well, because the palace is like a battleground also, and then he says, young boy, prew it. I have an important mission and sadly that mission requires you to be dead, and then he like fries the kid with his mind. It's really gross.
Yeah, And it goes on for a long time. They are like making you watch and this is not like a Jeoffrey who we know is evil. This is just like a funny, little rude nine year old with a toy. But alas he gets fried with The implication here to me is this is to start some kind of war or conflict or to stop the wedding, obviously, but also I feel like now you're going to have like, oh, there's someone in the palace who is a mole who
is killing people. But obviously we know it's hot, but I don't think anyone else is going.
To know that.
I think that Desmond Hard is working on the orders of the Nascent Spacing guildh in order to make sure that the spice production remains chaotic and is up for grabs, so that they can get some access to this shit. That's what I think.
I also wondered if it was like he's turned and now he's on the side of the Fremen, so he's actually there to stop spice being taken.
Yeah, he doesn't look a Fremen vibe.
He does look like he may have been doing some kissing with a Fremen. Yeah, kissing a Fremen, marrying a Fremen, killing children for a freemen. It could happen.
This guy has smelled the water of life.
Oh baby, he's spiced himself, that's for sure.
Valiya wakes to screaming in the school. Tula is also awoken by this. They run up. They find Kasha wandering the halls in agony, and then she burns up just like Pruett died.
You know, I like Kasha. I was a big Kasha man.
The only Asian character dies in episode one. I can't do we've done it again anyway. Valyya then says, I see mother twice and clearly she realizes the importance of this event in a way that we don't understand yet, and that brings us to the end of our episode. We be right back after the word for our sponsors to discuss this episode. We're back. Okay, there's a lot. There's a lot here. Yeah, and while we discussed the episode, let's also discuss some of the lore that we saw
so that we can all understand what we've seen. First of all, just reactions. Aboo, you're the super fan. You've been following this Yeah, guy for years, You've been following the production news of this show for years. Your thoughts Episode one, Dune Prophecy.
I think I'm cautiously optimistic. I quite enjoyed this first episode, and I want to come into it with an open mind. Considering it is episode one. I'm trying to remember what it felt like to watch Game of Thrones episode one, and obviously.
I think this is very Game of Thrones episode one.
Yeah, and so I want to give it time to tell its story and come into an open minded So I'm gonna let it do that before I come down too hard on it. Obviously I come in with a lot of preconceived notions, just being a Dune person and being a lifelong fan of the universe and the books. So there's a lot there. There's a lot of easter eggs.
There's a lot of deep cuts for folks who do know you know, Like you mentioned Tiaran RFL earlier, Jason, that is a deep, deep cut from the fourth and fifth book that Frank Herbert wrote, of the six that Frank wrote, and so like most people aren't making it that far and aren't recognizing the word RFL, you know, And that to me inspires a little bit of confidence that the folks behind the show have done their own work and are throwing in those deep cuts for the
super fans and doing their best to also make it accessible. I agree with many of the criticisms we've talked about, heavy on the exposition a bit of clunky storytelling, a lot of things that are like we'll tell you about this later, but just keep this in mind. Let's put a pin in it. There's a lot of putting pin in things for now. But again, episode one of a series, it's got to establish a lot of things before we get to the meat of it, so I'm willing to give it a bit of grace. TLDR. I liked it.
I'm impressed by what I saw. It's very beautiful visually, very beautiful, and I look forward to seeing how the rest of it goes.
Rosie your thoughts.
I agree with the Boo. Also like Doune for me in general, whether it's the Lynch Dune or the Denny June or this or even the books when I'm brave enough to try and dive into them, it's a vibe property for me. I think it's all about the world building and the vibe of it and whether you want to spend time in that world. And I think Denny made me want to spend time in it a lot, so I got a lot more into done in the books and this first episode. It does a lot of
things that I really enjoy. I love like a school story, in a genre space, So I think it's very interesting that we're getting this kind of Bena Jesuit training ground that's very ya, very divergent. I was very into that. I also thought that it looked great, very cool stuff to see, and also I like the weird lore of the Benny Jesre, so I'm interested to kind of see
that happen. Also, I did think, even though you know, opening with a narration and a kind of flashback is often a shortcut for doing a deeper storytelling, it was interesting to see the visualization of what the Machine War looked like because I think often Doune feels very archaic and very star wars y and very like Sandy Planet's retrofuturism. So it's really interesting to get to see that high tech segment. So I would be interested to go back
and look at that. And obviously the AI stuff feels very timely right now, Jason, what about you.
Agree with everything that was said. I'm cautiously in In fact, I think very optimistic. I think that a really good show I think could emerge here, and could emerge I think pretty early on in this season, once we set a baseline of understanding of where we are in the world. I do think that there are I have small notes, like I think the exposition could have been handled better. I think that there was too much.
A lot of characters introduced as well, Like a lot of.
Characters, I think we could have narrowed the focus considerably, like who I couldn't tell you who the main character of this episode was, whereas in Game of Thrones episode one, it was very clear and Ned was going to be the main character of that story, and I think that that was a little bit of an issue. I do think that there was too much, Like with so much information coming at you, I disagree with, Hey, table this for later, but it's going to be important. We're going
to come back to it. I think you need to explain more right away and set the stakes right away.
Yeah, or do more, like more distinct hooks rather than put a pin in it. You want to feel hooked? Do you want to it?
Like the wedding is a good example of like why is everybody so anxious about this? And then you find out it's a nine year old? Just tell us that, like off the back, just give us that off the jump. There are other weird things, like it was only when we started talking in our pre recording powow that I realized that it's very possible, if not likely, that Volia lies to her sister Tula, that she actually checked the Bai. The princess is the right person, because otherwise I was like,
why does this scene exist? Why is there a scene in which Tula and Valia discuss whether or not to check the archives and then Folly's like, Okay, I'll check them, and then we get a scene later where she's leaving the archives, She's like, I checked it. That's really clunky to me, And the possibility that she's lying just kind of slips by because of all this information that you don't know of varying importance, and it's hard to understand,
like what's important what's not. I think they could have set stuff up like that better by just letting you see that she didn't actually do it, and and there's like various things like that. Oh and one more, I think that the Sisterhood is too far along. I would have liked it if they were further back in their evolution, because yes, they're not the Benny Jesuit yet, right, and they've just only developed the voice, and they may not have other technologies like the Gomjabar and different.
Already in these spaces.
But they're already there are They already have someone with the emperor who's advising the emperor. They already have sisters who are placed with very great houses throughout the lands right including the Chess, and so they've already grown to this incredible extent where they're doing essentially the core functions of what the Benijeres are going to do ten thousand
years now, and I think that's too similar. I would have liked to see them having to make the case about why it's important to have one of these sisters to in your hall of power, like why do you want someone like this next to a duke, next to the emperor, next to a various other lords? And that's my only one note that said. I do I think this is I think this is really promising. I think obviously it looks great, and I think that there is
potential for a really really fun show. And I love the kind of political machinations that direction they've taken it, which is so core I think to the experience of reading Dune, and so I can't wait to see where this goes. Now that we've talked about our reactions. I think we're all on the same page. Let's mine the mind, yes of super producer Boo, to try and understand this world a little better and get some of that exposition that that show dumped on us to set in our
minds a little bit more. Let's start. You mentioned RFL, the term we heard. Let's go further into some of those easter eggs. What are some of those deep cuts those easter eggs that the show dropped on us.
Sure, so there's a couple of things that I found. And this is all super fun for me personally because I love world building. And again, I'm picking apart some of these because I think it shows us the confidence with which the creators are coming into this story. They've done their homework, and that inspires confidence in someone like me.
I mentioned RFL, so we already talked about how in the show it's defined as this great yet vague sort of existential threat for the Sisterhood, some sort of reckoning, perhaps a tyrant. It's not very well defined what exactly this RFL threat is, but we know that Raquela has foreseen it and Vally is working toward preventing it. And what's funny is like in the fourth and fifth do
in books. That's basically how it's used in the books as well, this vague existential threat that's very loosely defined that folks are foreseeing and worried about and trying to prevent. I did a little bit of history. What's fun is Frank is obviously borrowing a lot of his world building from real world religions and traditions and cultures. And so RFL, for folks who may not know, is actually the Hebrew word for fog. And within a religious context you see
RFL come up in the Bible a lot. For example, it's usually used to refer to the apocalypse. So clearly there's a line here between the way Frank is using it and the real world use of that word. Something else I wanted to call out quickly was at Raquella's funeral, we hear Dorotea and some of the other sisters say the words the mind of man is holy. And that's important because that's sort of like the rallying cry of the but Larians, the Butleryan gihad. Is is this turning
against the machines, right, this war against the machines. Here in the show, it's a literal war. I would argue, in Frank Herbert's original interpretation of it, it was more of a religious Zelot turning against technology as something that harms us as humans, takes away our humanity, and so we turned against it. In the show it's a literal war.
But regardless, the mind of man is holy is sort of the rallying cry of that man is holy and relying too much on technology takes away from man's holiness. And Jason, before our recording, you had asked, like, where's the line? You know, what are we saying is a thinking machine and must be banned? And where are we
saying it's okay? And I think the easiest way to think about it is a thinking machine is something that can compute on its own, and any sort of mechanical machine that requires human input and human control to operate is fine. Maybe it toes the line a little bit, and certainly many technologies in the books toe the line.
A lot of cultures are pushing how far they can mess with the Butlerians, But I think it's that so like a computer that does, like advanced computations, not kosher, but like a I don't know, like a claw machine, a ship, a ship, something that moves because like people push buttons. That's okay, So that's interesting. Two super quick things I wanted to call out as well. We see the blue within blue eyes in this episode, which is fun because we've seen that Timothy Shallowy himself gets blue
eyes in the movies. Here it's Kieran's girlfriend, question Mark friend. She has blue eyes, And if you've only seen the movies, you might think is that a Fremen because I've only ever seen Fremen with blue eyes. But the reality is these eyes, which are called the eyes of a bad
are just the result of spice addiction. So we're getting some hints here that maybe a lot of this clobe ub, a lot of what's being consumed is spice or spice adjacent, and perhaps this person in particular is addicted and has the blue eyes.
Question regarding spice addiction, because I think we've seen from Dune and from the later lore that continue to suspice you basically become immortal, but it also mutates you use of the fucking like a crazy huge cadpole. Much of
the Space and Guild. That said, it seems to me like how expensive would like a crippling spice addiction be because this is like the rarest, the most hard to get, the most important substance in the universe, and it is a little crazy to me that it would even be possible to use it recreationally.
Yes, you are correct. I think we are seeing a club for the one percenters. Hence the princess is going to this club in particular, and I think the patrons are also fellow one percenters. The economics, of course, like frankdon lay out the economics of spice, and if you try to pick apart the hints throughout the books and do the math, which I have tried to do, it
makes absolutely no sense. So I think just the simple answer to that is like spice is available to the wealthy enough people and they are able to consume it in enough quantities, which is not a lot. You only need a little bit of spice to get addicted.
You mentioned the earlier in our conversation, like the kind of like the three legged tripod the Emperor.
That's why I was gonna say, yeah, yeah, tell us about how why is spice important in a post computer world and what does it allow humanity to do.
That's a great question. First of all, it's economically important. Spice, very analogous to oil, is the oil of this universe. It operates a lot of things. So the Guild operates giant ships. But since it can't travel through space and through void space using advanced computers that do the computations for them, they use these tadpole fish people that you're alluding to, Jason, which we won't see until future books and movies. These navigators consume tons and tons of spice.
They live in these giant vats of spice, and then they basically they trip balls and vision their way through safely navigating this ship. So spice is the engine that is powering transportation within the Empire. That's one value of it. The Sisterhood needs spice in order to create reverend Mothers, in order to create truth sayers, So there's another political
and economic aspect of it. The Sisterhood needs it, so it's necessary for a lot of the groups that pop up host Machine War to fill in the gaps of technology. Spice powers a lot of these groups and their abilities and thus becomes this very essential commodity that many groups need for various reasons. And then are fighting over because of politics and power.
Anything else that we should know that will help us understand the world of Doom Prophecy as we head into the rest of the season.
The final thing, this is a deep, deep cut one last thing I wanted to kind of shout out for, in particular my Dune heads out there. The Empress has this very quick throwaway line about the traders of Harmon THEP when she's talking about her wedding dress with Yez, and that perked my ears up because Harmon THEP is a planet that shows up in many of the Brian Herbert Kevin J. Anderson prequel books. It's also in the Dune Encyclopedia, which is this expanded lore book that was
created and then decanonized many years ago. But Harmit THEP is fun that it got a name drop because it's a planet that's located in the same Solar system as Kaladin. It has a pretty interesting history the precursors to the Fremen people known as the Zensuni Wanderers. It was one of the planets that they wandered to. These people were basically persecuted and forcibly migrated from planet to planet before settling on Oracus. Harmon Dep was one of those planets.
What's fun is we are so far back in the history again, ten thousand years back in the.
History that's twice recorded human history.
Yeah, yeah, so we are so far before any of this. These Zansuni wanderers are not on Harmon Dep right now in the show. None of that matters really, Like Harma Dep gets blown up. It gets nuked and blown up six thousand years after this show takes place. But what's fun is, by the time we're in Paul's universe, Harmit Dep is like a rumor. It's a lost world. There's
a lost language. Nobody knows what happened to Harmon thep And it's fun to get again these really deep cuts in a show that clearly knows that the super fans like me are going to be out here listening for that sort of thing. So I wanted to call that out too. I think that's fun that they're picking tiny, tiny details and like throwaway planets to include in the writ.
That's the kind of stuff that makes us excited to watch these shows and kind of agree into them. And yeah, yeah, this was really fun. I'm glad to be learning more about the wild world of Dune.
Yeah, truly wild.
On tomorrow's episode of X ray Vision, we're diving into our favorite films in the world of sword and Sandals, movies and television shows, and then our Friday we're sharing our reactions to Gladdie in a tube. That's it for the episode. Thanks for listening, Bye bye. X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Nsumsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Boo Zafar.
Our producers are Carmen Lawn and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi a Discoord moderata