Thor: Love and Thunder + Ms. Marvel Eps 4 & 5

you've listened here. Hello, my name is Jasoncepcion, and welcome to X ray Vision The Crooked Podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. In today's episode, on the previously on news segment, we're be talking about the Paper Girls trailer, the adaptation of the beloved Brian Cavaon Cliff Chang comic book from Image Comics. We're gonna talk about some Stranger Things spin off news from the Duffer Brothers, and then we're gonna be catching

up on Miss Marvel episodes four and five. In the airlock, we're diving all the way deep into Thor Love and thunder, and of course, if you want to jump around, check out the timestamps in the show notes to find all the things that we talk about and enjoining me. Now we're back baby after a week layoff, filling her mind library with ever more information, ever more wisdom to give to the people. Is the number one comics encyclopedia, now

overflowing with things to tell you. It's a great Rosie, diight, Rosie, how are you. I'm good.

of themselves. It's time copying in the way that their time traveling is kind of against the law, and it's a great if you want to dive into a completely original comics world. Paper Girls on Image Comics is their few The show comes out on July twenty ninth. I was I thought the trailer looked fantastic. The color scheme, it reminds me so much of the comic. It seems like they nailed the casting. Uh, and I'm really excited about it. What were your thoughts?

can say about whoever's making these shows at Amazon. They know when to totally commit to the comics like this, and they know when to distance themselves like the boys, and we find of said this and this is like so incredible to see Cliff's visual language and landscape board to the screen, especially in the colors, because Paper Girl uses coloring in a very specific way. Their colors by Matt Wilson are just astonishing in that book, and they're

used in a very narrative, important way. And it's just also like one of the coolest looking books. I remember working in a comic shop when it was coming out, and you just wanted to get those Neon issues every time, like the beautiful covers. And yeah, this is one where I would say, read it now, or if the trailer looks really enticing to you, wait and then you can

be surprised when you watch the show. I also something that I think is really cool about this, when we talk about committing to the comics, something that Amazon pr is doing here which is really incredible. Every single time they write about Paper Girls, they shout out Brian Cavaughan, and they shout out Cliff Chang and they are adding them and they are saying, these are the people who made this, these are the people, this is the reason

this exists. So I think this could be a real step forward when it comes to how closely connected the creators are to the show. Also, images create our own creat so this is about to say this is their brand.

couple of issues of Paper Girls on image. I wonder how much the success of Stranger Things affected voices that they made in the show, because you know, I mean the opening of the comic, there's like a reference to the Challenger explosion. There's all these pop culture need these references.

There's a kid dressed as Freddy Krueger, like you know, in the opening, in the opening pages, and all of that would feel I think, pretty Stranger Things into those who are not initiated to the comics or weren't reading

the comics at the time. So I wonder, I really wonder how much the showrunners and the production team either leaned into the eighties references the stuff that's on the page, or leaned away from those choices, not wanting to, you know, ride on a wave that has been created by another show.

My gut says, you cannot. The point of Paper Girls as well as Strange Things is that to evoke that nostalgia. The question is do they do it in the Stranger Things way, which is like, look at this thing that is from that era, or do they do it in

tone and ship. I would love to see them evoke different parts of the eighties that we don't necessarily get to see in the same way, So I'll be really I think that's one of the most interesting things to look for as we go into the show, is like what do they do to separate themselves from Stranger Things, And not in a negative way, just because this is a unique, different kind of story. So I'm very interested.

like what the conversation was speaking of Stranger Things. Uh. Matt and Ross Duffer, the Duffer Brothers, creators of these Stranger Things television program on the Netflix streaming platform, have announced per Deadline that they have launched their own company, upside Down Pictures, and they are working on producing as

Stranger Things spinoff. Per Deadline, following the record breaking release of the two final episodes of Stranger Things Season four, creators Matt and Rosstuffer have formed upside Down Pictures and recommitted to Netflix with several new projects. Those include a live action series adaptation of Death Note, the famed Japanese manga and anime written by Tuscumi Oba and with illustrations by Taki shi Obada. An original series from creators Jeffrey

Addis and Will Matthews. Dark Crystal Resistance could come out of upside Down Pictures, a series adaptation of Stephen king At Peter Straub's nineteen eighty four novel The Taosman, which speaking as a king head excited for that one. A new stage play set within the world in Mythology of Stranger Things, produced by UK based stage producer Sonya Friedman, and the aforementioned live act Stranger Things spin off based on an original idea by the Duff Brothers, with upside

Down and twenty one Laps producing. Uh, this just makes a lot of sense. You know, this is by I think any measure, although with Netflix it's hard to understand what measure what is right by the bye, just anecdotally knowing all the people who are talking about this show and who have watched it, and understanding what Netflix the hit, what it means as a hit to Netflix, it just makes sense to do this. And Uh, I'm excited. Listen, give let's give Steve, Let's.

I'm open to it. There's been plenty of brilliant already Death Note adaptations in Japan, so it's not going to take those away, and maybe it'll add something really cool or new. I love anything like why a kid storytelling that's like and we'll talk about that more when we talk about Thoor like that. I'm a sucker for that. So the notion that we could see a new core version of that, I'm open to it. I'm open to it.

I love Dark Crystal Age of Resistance. That was like one of my favorite TV shows in the last few years because it's, Oh my god, it is like so good. When you watch it, you almost cannot believe it's real. It is. Oh, it's so on. You're gonna love it so much. I know everything you love and you're just gonna love it.

like being othered. And I thought that Joseph Quinn as Eddie is just like, that's got to be one of my favorite characters from a TV show in ever, and I saw so much love there for him, so like, I, yeah, it's this feels again. It's been a little while since we've had one of those moments where you feel like

everybody's talking about it. Yeah, you know, so it's it's kind of been wild since we've had Yeah, it's been fun to see that everyone getting excited about it for the good reasons, so that it's all it's all because people are passionate. So it's been exciting to be a part of that again.

the group. We learn more about the realm of the Clandestines come from, and then fucking the Department of Damage Control absolutely fumbles the fucking.

a big fight and Najima and the Clandestines escape. Walid is killed in a fight back in Karachi, and we see a portal open and Kamala goes through and arrives That faithful night back in nineteen forty seven, when Sana followed a trail of stars to her father and Aisha disappeared. Onto episode five, we open on newsreel footage from August nineteen forty seven, the eve of India's independence and the

creation of the state of Pakistan. We see India's leader Nehru and Pakistan's leader and founding figure Muhammad Ali Jina making speeches, and then we see crowds of people on the move as these two states are created, and Hindus who are living in what will soon become Pakistan are leaving for India and Muslims in India leaving for Pakistan.

Of course, this process, historical process which was I believe the largest mass migration of people in history, in the history of the world, talking millions of people in the move was accompanied by a lot of violence, a lot of destruction, and a lot of heartache for people who for generations had been living in a place, living in the place that their family had lived in for generations, all of a sudden forced to uproot themselves and move.

That's a historical context. We arrive in nineteen forty two flashback from this newsreel footage. British troops are pursuing Kamala's great grandmother, Aisha through the forest. She suddenly turns and does something which takes down the soldier. Later, we see an activist handing out handbills and talking to a crowd about the independence movement. Agitating this crowd of eager locals about why they should be an independent nation and how they can do that with the least amount of chaos

and rioting possible. And then all of a sudden, British shoops arrive, and of course they've got Indian auxiliaries also, and they don't want people talking about this, so they disperse the crowd using force. Aisha later is wearing the bangal and we see her wearing the bangle. She's sleeping in a field. Turns out that's this man's field. His name is Hassan, and he wakes her up and he's like, hey, you know, if you want to, my house is right over here, if you want to come in and get

something to eat and rest in there. That night, she comes in and very very very reluctantly eats dinner, which you don't have to tell me twise, if you're offering food, I'm eating. Aisha doesn't talk much, and it's we understand why, of course, but Hassan does not. It's clear that she's not from around here. It's also clear that she's not British, So who is she? What's her deal? Aisha's very closed lipped about this, but eventually she reveals that she likes

Hassan grows roses and she thinks are great. That gets them talking. Now they introduce themselves and she is Aisha. We know he is Hassan. We just learned that. And folks, you can tell right away by the way they're looking at each other they're gonna make babies. And it happens. In the very next scene. We fast forward to Aisha has got Hassan's roses in her hair. They are being very loving to each other. A camera bound pans down and guess what it's baby on board time That is

within that belly is Sna Kamala's grandmother. The growing family is at peace, and we fast forward years later see snap playing with Aisha's Bengal as a BBC radio reports on the violence that is gripping the country. This is post independence now and the partition is taking place or around the time of independence. As this mass migration is taking place, Hassan is upset. He is Muslim. He lives

in what will become India. Already, people in the village that he and his family have lived in for many years are being shunned by certain members of the community. Although there is also a lot of generosity within that community, and he is angry because he's really grappling with the very real possibility that he's going to have to flee the home that has been his home for generations. A villager comes to offer them some food, and he rejects it.

He's angry about it. That night, Aisha meets Nadama out in the field and we learned that Asha's been hiding from her fellow clandestine's. Najama has been searching for Aetia for years, it seems like, and her plan is the same as it is present day. She wants to use the bangle to return everybody home. They want to go

back to their the dimension they've been exiled from. I was just like, oh the bangle, Yeah, I hit it because you know, there's all the there's all this, you know, there's all this movement of people's riots going on, a lot of chaos because of the independence movement, and you know, I got to look for it. And I'll tell you what, I'll text you when I find it. I'll look for it, okay, and I'll let you know. And then Najamas like you have until the end of day tomorrow, and that's when

you better have it. I usually goes back this on and urges him to flee. It's time to go. We got to go. The riots are getting closer. I know this farmhouse has been in your family and you don't want to leave it and it's really painful. But you've got a growing family. Now we have to do it. They hit the road. I should gives son on the Bengal for protection. The family heads off for the last train out of town. On the road, Hassan, who uses

a cane he's got an injured leg, is struggling. He asks who Ai Shud was talking to out in the field the other night, and Aisha is like, okay, let me show you some shows us on the Bengal gives us a very short demo of what it can do, which is basically like a little telescoping feature and it lights.

not talking about where she's from or anything. And it's not until now apparently like one or two years later, because Sanna is like a toddler, right that he now begins to ask questions about, like real questions about any So this bangel, what's going on with this? I wanted it's I wanted to talk about something since it was just the fourth of July.

you often hear when people critique colonialism. You'll often hear like defenders of colonialism say kind of shritly, like, hey, sure it wasn't ideal all the time, but look like India has the post office, they have this away system, they have these beautiful harbors, they have this parliamentary system of government, they have like all these this civil service and all this stuff that's like very fleshed out. And that's because of the legacy that English rule left there.

And while it wasn't always great, look look at the positives that left behind, which like all that stuff is there because the English were there. That's true. At the same time, it's like, uh, you know, the economics of colonialism, it's it's different for many cases. And I'm by no means an expert, but i will say, like the basics were the English and the English were not. You know, the Dutch were there, the Portuguese were there, France was

there also, but the English came to dominate India. The English system of colonialism was they extract natural resources, gems, you know, text ales, t et cetera, and take it very for a very cheap price as all England. Right essentially, right, but you know, like there's an investment of money, like to like go and send people there. Anyway, they extract the natural resources, they send to England where they produced finished goods that they would then sell to this captive

market of India where they can't buy anything else. They have to buy stuff from England. Right, So what you're basically looking at is, I mean, you could call it theft, but on a massive, massive scale, like a oh your scale to the point where you need a railroad to transport all the stuff you're taking to the harbor, and you need ships to take that home, and you need this massive like management system that becomes a civil service

to keep track of all that stuff. And you need a postal service because you need to be in communication with all these people who are extracting all this wealth out of there and then selling the finished goods and

taking that wealth back also. And so really when you when people say, oh, but look at the post office and look at all the railways and stuff, it's kind of like if I was a bank robber and I tunneled into a bank and I stole all the money, if I came back like now there's a tunnel forty fifty years later, say oh, I noticed you made a subway out of the tunnel that I dug. You're welcome.

like most feature anything country partition, and they don't. They don't even do the version where it's like, well, at least where I went to school, which was like a very like poor working class neighborhood where there was people from all over the world, like they a lot of whom came there because of what England had done to their countries during colonialism and like because of colonialism. But like they didn't even do the version where they were

like we were like generous benefactors. They just like skip over it because they know that even if you like scrape the tiniest bit of it off. I think it's like in that way, like Miss Marvel. By talking about partition and kind of generally even broaching this period, it's doing that thing that comic books have always done that we love, which is like using a story to tell like an analogous import shine of light on, like an

important moment in history. But instead of doing it in a way that's analogous, they're actually just talking about it and setting it during this time. And like the creative team actually shared Bisha Ali, I saw share it. This reading list they made, we can put it in the show notes of readings on partition by all different kinds of people's like so, and I think it's like a really interesting, cool expansion of that where they're not just saying like, oh, we wrote about this thing, you should

go and learn about it. They're like, here are the things that helped us learn about it, and and now you can't too. So I'm glad that there are stories about this because yeah, just terribly.

lot of bad history attached to it. Yeah again, like millions died during this extremely violent and chaotic like event, Like it was bad.

So that's the notion of all of these things, right, Yeah, it's the two sides of trying to tell this huge story in like a thirty minute episode.

yeah wrong with that. I will say that. I will say that, like, and I'm not trying to speak for the uh Pakistani or Indian fans of the show or like, you know, pop culture fans in general. I'm speaking as a as a person of color who loves nerd shit. It it feels a little like, uh, it feels a little weird when people are so loudly like, well, it

doesn't speak to me. Considering like you know, as a as a again as a nerd, as a nerd of color, like you just know you I have to growing up and watching shows including now you basically have to eat what they make you, you know, like there's no choice. And so as when you were talking about like how the kind of obliquely talking about like the steaks for fans like who are looking to see their experiences mirrored in this show and are either satisfied or disappointed. I

think that that is it. Just when there are so few opportunities to see something like that, all of a

sudden it carries more weight. Like if this was like Peaky Blinders or something right and it's stiffed and people were like, well fuck it, I don't you know, I don't really care about like early twentieth century Anglo Irish like Mafia Shiit Gang, people would not there would not be an uproar from the community that is looking to see themselves reflected in that Anglo Irish story, because guess what, You're going to get a million other Anglo Irish stories

like you could go fucking watch Boondock Saints or something I don't know, like that's or departed you know, like it's there's a million things, but you know right, yeah, It's like listen when when crazy rich I've told this story before, I'll tell it again, crazy rich Asians came out. I didn't like it, Okay, I did. I the theme, the story is subject matter very very rich people doing very very rich shit. It just doesn't speak to me.

It's not my thing. At the same time, not knowing when we would get another major Hollywood budget movie starring Asian people, and in fact it would not be until years later Shangchi the legitd of the Ten Rings, I was like, not, I'm not going to be out there being like, you know, fuck this movie. I don't like it. I was just not going to do that now, was

I like not speaking my mind? Yeah? But also like, those are the those are the kind of issues that you have to weigh when you're just not used to seeing yourself or your stories reflected in the broader pop culture.

that do speak to me. But again, I wasn't out here like boo Captain Marvel because you realize, you're like, it took them ten years to do this anyway, it's and the way that they're doing it, Like sure, I would have rather that it was a Monica Rambo movie Like that, to me is the movie I wanted to see. But I'm gonna be stoked that this means a lot to people.

But also if the best thing about them is if you let yourself open up, maybe it will speak to it.

be like, oh, yeah, let's slip that's still. But then if we get to like say ten or fifteen pictures out of the hundred, now all of a sudden, people are like, well, let's pump the brake. We don't want to change this over and I think there's a lot of that going on, not just about this show, but in the broader culture. Okay, back to the train station nineteen forty seven. It is a fucking mess, as one

would expect. Aisha, Hassan, and son Up push their way through the crowds, but Aisha gets a feeling that something is amiss and she looks and she sees Nagama through the crowd, so she breaks off because she's afraid Najamen is about to attack. What if my husband and daughter are killed or innocent people are killed, And she goes off to try and lure her away from her family. She's speaking to her, but then Najman's like, I don't want to hear it and stabs Aisa and then walks off.

arrives in nineteen forty seven. She finds her great grandmother dying. I used to thinks Kamala is actually adult. It's not her daughter, and it's unclear actually that she actually gets who she is as she's dying, but she in her final moments asks Kamala to save her family, and then she dies. Kamala finds her grandmother her infant grandmother in the crowd and is about to use her light powers to get them to walk above the crowd so they

can get to the train. When there's like a they're disrupted for a second, and the sna we see is infatuated with the light and can control it in some kind of way, is playing with it in a way that is unique. Kamala is looking on at this in amazement, and this light show allows Hassan to find his daughter. He sees the glow and he guts over to it and he finds her. We're going to talk about what

this means for time travel in a second. Then the bangle glows and Kamala is transported back to present day Karachi, where a portal is opening to the newer dimension. Here is Nadama that she's about to watch her plans come to filment. They're about to be able to go home, but as the Clandestines touch the veil, they die. One of one of Najama's number, Furia touches it and turns to bone and ash. Kamala tries to shoot light at

the veil to close it. Red Dagger comes up, is like, I'll help by evacuating, like all, there's a bunch of civilians in the area. This took place, like in a market area of Karachi. It starts evacuating people, and Kamala is like you get to Nagama. She's like, you got

to help me close this thing. Like I understand, like you want to go home all this stuff, but we could we could lose everything, uh, And they have it out right there, and then finally Najamas like, okay, I get it, Like I agree, and I know how to close the veil, and she steps forward and touches it and she dies. Uh, and the veil seals just as Nagama's powers are transferred across the world to comrad over

in Jersey City. As the veil closes, Weniva and Sada, the adult elderly sonat walk up just in time as it's all over. It's all over, and they show up later a Snat shows Kamala pictures of her mom when she was her age. Miniba was a huge fan of Bonjovi, which we already know Sana, And there's this really like wonderful mothers and Daughters seen generationally of Snat and Muniba rebuilding their relationship through their relationship with Kamala, which I

just found to be wonderful. Like this is what this show does well, is stuff like this, like really well the I.

And Manieba is so impressed when she realizes that Kamala is a superhero, which I thought was like really cute. She doesn't tell her off or anything, She's just like wow, and I just I really like that. And I think this is like a very low key no one cares about apart from me theory. But from the beginning of this show, I thought they were establishing a space where

like Manieba would design Kamala's superhero costume. And I do think after this episode that that's what we'll see next week, which I think is just so cute.

I will say, like as a person who's bad with names that I have done, I've got a system now, but I've like had numerous encounters with.

it again. So the way it is implied in the show, and the way that Marvel's official recap, written by Marvel editor Rachel Page, makes it seem is that it's like a back to the Future dominator style closed time loop where Kamala has always gone back and will always go back, and has always gone back. We would imagine infinite times before this she has done this exact thing and nothing can change it. Is it that or is it like the endgame thing where she went back and either a

arted an alternate timeline. So Kamala one, the Bengal has dropped, goes back through the portal, saves her grandmother. It's creating an alternate timeline in which Kamala two does the same thing, starting a new timeline in which Kamala three. You know, like, is it that or is it still like endgame? But because now here is where it gets this is a little tricky. But like so in endgame, right that you know the stuff that they stole they put back a

second later. Now I would argue that you're still changing things. You're killing bacteria, you're serving things interest, the world is still changing, you're countering people on the way there, maybe somebody that is two seconds later. Yeah, like there's a bunch of stuff, right, the timeline is significantly Like you're playing with stuff and it's still remained the same, Right,

So maybe what happened. So the alternate version of the endgame version is that Hassan was always going to find Sonat. He was really not that far from her, right, he was calling her name. He was always going to find her. They were always going to get on the train together. And this is the first time that Kamala has done this thing where she goes back to the past. But she actually didn't significantly change anything. She was just there.

Nobody actually saw her except the grandmother who doesn't remember, and so therefore nothing changed and no timeline was branched.

changed or contradicted in like answers. Since so, I don't know how like tight it is when you really think about it, because like you said, like if you're taking the stones but then you're putting them back, that allegedly would stop the timeline and make it the same. But how come then Steve Rodgers can go back and live an entirely different life, entirely change the timeline. That doesn't

make any sense. Also, Steve, I got lots of well about that choice, the same things that you didn't do, But why will.

that's the thing that always putting back. It's like, as long as the bangle is the the thing that is there, that timeline stays the same, even if it's like a closed time loop.

Kamala is always going to do this. I think that there's a world in which, like much like hiding in Apocalypse in the Loki Show, hides you from the eyes of the Tva, there's a world which, like some time traveling figure who one hundred percent wants to know the safest place in the universe to hide out in or to hide something, you know, because we've seen in comics and various other stories where you hide, you know, you you magically hide something, you can shrink it down, hide

it in a person you know, like or magically hide it in a person. If you want to hide something or or find out where the safest place like in the multiverse almost is it is right next to Kamala Khan, who cannot die time. She is immortal during this there is no way that anything bad can happen. She is unkillable during this time.

of ground level Spider Man style superhero. But what I think is really interesting about this is like usually when we see these stories, it's because somebody is doing something to put that timeline in danger, which is like back to the future, you're gonna be eraised, something's gonna happen. That means you're gonna be erased, or you know, Terminator, something's gonna happen, and you need to do something to stop the timeline from being disrupted so you can still

be here to stop it. It's also the most recent series of Umbrella Academy gets into this idea of like a grandfather paradox for everything to keep going. What is really interesting about this is that is not what happened in this series. There was never a threat to it. What we were seeing was just Kamala learn about it for the first time, which is more of like a

Bill and Ted logic almost. It's I find it very interesting because it raises a lot of questions, and I feel like they are questions that were probably like, oh, we'll answer that in a couple of movies or something.

is this negates Kamala's heroes journey and her agency. It was always going to happen, So it kind of doesn't matter any of the choices she made because she was always going to end up in this place, Which is why as mess and as kind of disx machine as the endgame system of time travel is, I actually like

it because it makes the choices matter. Yeah, what you choose to do when you go back in time actually matters because you're trying to accomplish a goal that isn't set in stone, that it's very in flux.

I don't necessarily love the idea that Kamala is the one who gets the preordained history, the preordained fate it feels, like you said, like it could take away some of that agency. Well, I will say one, I'm very interested to see what happens next episode because it feels like every loose end has been tied up. So I want to know.

to street level. But I do find it very interesting because like maybe that happens in every time loop, maybe they always end up there, but I think Sunna kind of hints at the idea that they didn't. I also think with any time travel story, and.

the sky. At the end of this, when we defeat you, we'll be able to prepare this this and this I like it. I like it kind of like you can use it almost as a magical power, because anything that you say you're going to do in the future, you've already done. And this is kind of like that but reversed,

but we never really see the power impact. Yeah, I'm so interested to see what happens in the finale because I feel like it's either going to be very intimate, which this show has kind of been but has strayed away from in the last couple of episodes, Like the first two episodes of this season are still some of my favorite MCU. That's what I wonder.

completely bonkers, but I feel like it's quite likely. Now you've brought this up, so we know that all of this misuse of Stark technology is going to play into Armor Wars, right, but they have kept very quiet about what Armor is going to be about, and we know that Rody's going to be in it. But do you think that if that's the case, Armor Wars takes on a more important role in like introducing sentinels and the notion of like X like X Men's style oppression of

powered people. And that's what Rody is fighting against is the use of Stark Tech for Sentinel technology.

it gonna be interdimensional? Are they already here or is it magic? And I think there's a world in which you program right using Star Tech you program these autonomous robots who get smarter and smarter and smarter in learning how to detect people, and all of a sudden they go, oh wait, there's a bunch of them here in upstate New York that we found that nobody knew about that

have been like underground this. They've already done it with the eternals, and maybe they wouldn't do it exactly like that again, but I do think that that is a doorway they could walk through if they wanted to, where this increasingly powerful sentinel system discovers mutants. And just to backtrack for one second, in this is gonna seem like

an aside, but I swear it is. And Captain America inn Soldier, right, there's that there's the scene where uh, you know, they take a cap and Nat and take sit well to the roof, right, and they throw them off, and then Sam brings him back, and all of a sudden he spills and he's like, yeah, you know, we've this algorithm. It's looking for power for people who are

in the threats still and Strange is one of them. Right, How the fuck did the algorithm know that Stephen Strange was up to Stephen Strange was up to literally nothing at that time. So Ratcon they well, definitely reckcon because that was like an easter egg to get people excited. At the same time, How does how does comic book storytelling work? That is ongoing storytelling work? It works because creators look back and they go, here's a weird thing. I wonder if I can blow this up and make

this something. Yeah, in the interior reality of the MCU, there was already a computer eight years ago that was predicting who would be powered threats. So like in the interior reality the MCU, this technology already exists. No, I think it's so impossible that it could that. Much like Jasper Sidwell knew that Dandri Strange was going to be a player years before he would ever be a player, Maybe there's this ongoing project that eventually will discover people

who are not even on the radar right now. Yeah, and that are in this world.

to hear it again. I've been thinking it's about secret Wars, but I think maybe it is about introducing the X Men, because what they've done in every single movie in this phase shang Chi, you know what was there? Oh, it's a secret group of people you've never known about, who are not on the radar, who have a certain way of fighting. Miss Marvel. Oh, there's this whole secret, hidden group of people or who live behind the veil in

a hidden world. Maybe that they have some secret powers you don't know about setting up this idea that all around us are these worlds of powered people that we do not know. And the Eternals is another one, you know, and that very much took on a kind of almost Inhumans esque storytelling of like they've been here for so long, so it really would fit in with what they're doing to introduce an enclave. Also, we've talked about this before,

but like Professor Xavier and Augean Gray. Either of them is powerful enough to essentially use their psychic powers to stop people knowing about them.

Thor went to space to just get healthy. It didn't just mean losing weight. It means his mental health, it means his physical health. He just wants to feel better about himself, and that's what he went to space to do with his friend Court. And it took a while, but with some dedication, a healthier outlook, some exercise, some regular meditation, and of course the company of his now very close friends, the Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor becomes fitter,

a more at peace former god of Thunder. We find Thor and the Guardians and the process of evicting some rodent alien bandits from a temple that they have occupied and stolen, essentially from a native population. In the end, Thor does find it necessary to destroy the temple to liberate it, and the indigenous population are more or less pleased. They would prefer not to talk about the fact that

temples destroyed, but they're kind of thankful. And it's very clear from this that adventures such as these have been a regular thing for the Guardians and Thor, who have been at this for a while. This kind of this kind of adventuring these kind of fights where the guardians are fighting, and then thora Is the big Gun, comes in with his own catchphrase. But now Thor has a new mission, and that is to hunt down the god

Butcher that slayed the gods of this planet. Speaking of that god Butcher in the past, long long long ago and some far off world, Gore and his daughter are staggering through an endless desert and they are praying to their gods, who it turns out, have abandoned not only Gore and his daughter, but their entire people.

I'll get more people. That's how it works, so you're annoying and I'm going to kill you now. And as the god is about to kill Gore, the Necro Sword chooses Gore as its next wielder, and Gore slays this god, and right then and there dedicates his life as the wielder of the Necro Sword to killing all gods everywhere across the universe. Back to Thor and our friends Thor and Cork say goodbye to the Guardians. They are getting

ready to leave this planet. The natives of the planet are like, oh, thank you for saving Slash destroying our temple. We'd like to give you this gift of two huge goats that scream all the time as a thank you, but clearly also because we want to get rid of them. And Thora is like, thank you so much. I love these goats. I will name them tooth Nasher and tooth Grinder.

They then travel to a snowy world. Corgan Thor do where because they got a message from Sif, And there they find a dead god, a huge dead god, this dragon like god that we saw in the trailer. Faligar the Behemoth has been slain by Gore, the god Butcher, and there in the field of war. In front of Faligar is our good friend, the warrior Sif, who is grievously injured and has had her arm cut off, and she sees Thoris. She's like, oh my god, thank god, Thor,

it's you. I died in battle. Look at me, like, I'm going to Valhalla. This is awesome. This is what asked guardian warriors dream about, is dying in battle and going to Valhalla. And I'm about to go, and it's great to see your face in the moments before I go. And Thor is like, the battle is like long over. If you die now, you actually won't go to Valhalla, so sorry to spoil that for you. It's it's like fuck. So then Siff is like, okay, then just take me

back to wherever you're going. They grab Sif and they buy Frost back to Earth. Meanwhile, back on Earth, our good friend, doctor Jane Foster, is now a successful public intellectual and the author of a very influential and successful book about physics. Unfortunately, she's also in the fight of her life against cancer. Her friend and former assistant Darcy Lewis, is there to kind of like support her through this. We recently saw Darcy, of course, taking part in the

government response to the Westview incident in Wanda Vision. She's there to support her friend Jane, but of course Jane's cancer is stage four, which is the final stage. Darcy, at her wits end, contacts their old friend, the brilliant doctor Eric Selvig, who of course has been with us since Thor and the Avengers and etc. And he agrees also that he just doesn't know. He's not a medical doctor, but he looks at the scans and looks at the data and says, I'm not sure what we can do

for Jane. But one day, Jane, here's a voice calling her to new Asgard is the voice of Mulnir. Much like in the comics, we find out that Munier has some sort of some sort of consciousness. Now Thor's hammer forged from the magical Uru by the power vote himself. And then we need to back up here because we get a flashback about what Jane and Thor had been up too between Thor the Dark World in Ragrok. So after the events of Dark World, Thor and Jane moved

in together very much in love. So deep and pure was their love for each other that it actually imprinted itself into Mulnar. Their love became like a magical spell. But as often happens, Jane and Thor grew apart. They started arguing a little bit, hanging out different places, and then eventually they broke up unhappily, but they did do so, but the magic of their bond remained imprinted on Mulner.

Now back to the present, Jane, desperately sick, she travels to new Asgarden, Norway, where the pieces of Thor's hammer are kept like under a little dome. They're immovable, of course, unless you're worthy enough to move them. That is the very place where they fell after Hella crushed them in the opening act of Thor Ragnrok. And then Jane comes and then the pieces assemble themselves into the hammer, which Jane, as the worthy wielder of nil Nerd, lifts, thus becoming

worthy of the power of Thor. In New Asgard, we see that King Valkyrie's reign has been great. It's actually been pretty good. Like it's very very peaceful, and on the economic front things are going great. It's a tourist destination. People are coming through all the time. It appears that they have a kind of like Norwegian style European style, like healthcare and system, because everybody seems very well taken care of and everything's great. Unfortunately, it is also very

very boring. King Valkyrie has to sit through endless meetings all day and she's bored by this. Our friend Meek at least seems very satisfied in their role as a member of the King's cabinet, but overall King Valkyrie is a little like is this all there is to life? Thor Korg and the Goats arrive back in New Asgard, and the very night they arrive, go strikes because this is the next target on his list. He's killing gods.

He wants to kill the gods and New Asgard. King Valkyrie, Thorns and whoa mighty Jane Foster fight the minions of Gore and repel them, but unfortunately the god Butcher also escaped, with like two dozen as Guardian kids among them. Heimdahl's son Axel named for Axel Rose, apparently, who has similar powers to his late father, but hopefully is better at using them, unlike Himdahal, who missed every single fucking threat in every movie he was ever in. I rest my

case that's enough about Himdhal. I won't speak. That's why I won't. Let's not speak ill of him, Heimdahl, you did a bad job, but let's move on. Well, we love you. Love you. Now. Through Axel's powers, Thor is able to basically astral project to where Axel is. They find out through the kids that Gore is heading to or hanging out at the Shadow Realm, and so Thor, King Valkyrie and my Jane Foster are like, Okay, we need to we need to go there and stop Thor

and rescue the kids. Now, Thor, King v Jane and Korg. That's a good start, but we need more. They need an army. So Thor is like, I know where we can get one. Let's go to Omnipotent City, which is like the Las Vegas of the gods. Supposedly they're there like doing god governmental work, but they're never doing that Adam Nipputen City. Zeus is like the big daddy rock

star of all the six one six gods. He holds sway there and he's pretty much like a dirt bag whose current calling is fucking and drinking his way through the anxiety of the ongoing Gore menace. Zeus very aggressively does not want to help Thor and is in fact terrified of Gore and would prefer to just hide here in a city, having orgies and drinking wine and not doing anything. So that's your answer, Thor, take it or leave it. Our heroes decide that's not good enough. They

fight Zeus. In the course of the fight, korg Is turned to Rubble, very very scary moment here where I was like, oh, fuck, corg is dead.

In the course of the argument and fight with Zeus in a city, our heroes realize that Gore's endgame is to reach Eternity, who is like a Genie at the center of the universe. You can think of him as essentially and if you reach Attorney, whoever can get there. No one's ever gotten there, but if you can get there, Attornity will grant you one reality altering wish, and we can assume that if Gore gets there his wishes, all God's be dead and there will be a genocide of

God's across the universe. Okay. Meanwhile, Jane's cancer, which has never truly banished, much like in the comics, reasserts itself now while Jane is holding Milner. She has the power for but it comes at a price because it weakens her defenses, makes her weaker when she's not holding Milner, and thus speeding her towards her death. Jane begins to weaken dramatically after our heroes fight Gore in the Shadow Realm. It's clear that she cannot continue. Thora's heartbroken at just

the thought of losing Jane. Hear their love has been rekindled, and now he's about to lose her before he can even get to spend time with her again. Jane, to Thor's relief, goes back to Earth to basically wait out her final hours This is some of the best stuff in this movie, the Jane Thor stuff. It's crazy that like, ten years after, I mean, you know, after the first Thor movie, we're now like paying off this relationship in a way that feels like really.

were terrified of losing each other. And then in this moment where Thor is reunited with Jane and they share this honesty and they're both holding the mantle of th Or and they say, well, Thor says, you know what, I don't want to be scared of that anymore. I want to be with you. And Jane's like, well, I've got cancer, and Thor's like, look, I'm not doing this. I love you. Go and stay in the hospital, like we will sort this out, but don't you be picking

up that hammer again. And it's like it's so it's so well done, and I love the relationship in this and I totally understand why this is the movie where Natalie Portman came back. Like, Jane gets so much great stuff in not just like heroically, but also emotionally.

We saw the way he responded to the events of Infinity War and the opening of End Game, where he's just like a shattered person, unable to grapple with his failure to save his mother, unable to grapple with their his and the Avengers failure to save half the living things in the entire universe, and he's just crushed by this.

And here even again as he's urging Jane to go home and like and seek medical care and stop picking up this hammer that is making her powerful but at the same time making the cancer more powerful, he's also in this very very human way he is unable to like acknowledge that Jane will die like he's still holding and again a very human way as anybody who's like ever dealt with somebody having like a like an illness like this.

or whatever. And then, much like Odin did centuries ago, Thor bestows for a limited time only his power on all these as guardian kids, so that together they are wielding the power of Thor. And they opened a huge can of whoop ass on Gore, who, despite getting molly wopped all around the temple, does manage to break through to Eternity and crawl through to make his wish. So the kids are fighting Gore's shadow monsters of black berserkers.

Thor is fighting Gore but steadily losing, and just in the moment where it seems like Thor is about to get his head cut off by the necro sword, Jane shows up and beats Gore's fucking ass. Unfortunately, the byfrost does manage to drill through to the realm of Eternity while all of this is going on, and Jane has spent the very last of her strength, and so Gore goes through to Eternity. Jane dies in Thor's arm, heartbreakingly,

turning to gold dust and drifting away. Thor confronts Gore right in front of Eternity in this water realm that looks like something. It honestly looks like one of the boss fights from Elden Ring. That's it. It looked beautiful.

she wouldn't. And that's like, and that's when they make the agreement or whatever that Thor was gonna raise his kid, and.

another Cronan. It turns out that all Cronans are male, and this Cronan, Dwyane, he's fallen in love with him, and all Cronans to pro create, they go into the heart of a volcano where they hold hands and then create a baby. And so together they do this and they father a beautiful Cronan child. As the film ends, Korg still narrating, we see that Thor stay true to

his word. He and the girl, now named Love. Together they are known as Love and Thunder are adventuring amongst the stars, as Thor has been doing with the Guardians of the Galaxy to open the film, and just doing

good across the galaxy. And we close with this big splashy logo of Love and Thunder, and in that which is like a really cool surprise to realize that, oh, this is like, weirdly, this entire movie weirdly is like a prequel to the Love and Thunder relationship, that is Thor and his daughter Love.

in his chest. It's mending, but he's still got this big hole in his chest and he's got one of his servants that's looking after it. He is talking about Thor and how Thor did all this stuff and put up punched a hole through his chest, and how he was happy just kind of like chilling out and up nipping and city drinking wine. But now he's he's back to being the vengeful god that he always was, and he's mad and he wants to strike back. And I'm talking to you, my son, are you going to be

the instrument of my vengeance? And the camera pans over and it's his son Hercules, who's like, Yep, I'm gonna do.

warriors go when they die courageously in battle. As Jane very very obvious just has who is there to welcome her? It's heimdahal Hella. Guess what We're going up there to that hole on the hill, and and then we were off, folks, and that is the end of our film. Uh. Some thoughts, Rosie, Your thoughts.

It does one of my favorite things. It's kind of in a way, it's kind of like a Chazam in the MCU, but like the Shazam movie had these really creepy, scary horror elements, but then this really fun family aspect, and I feel like if I was a kid, I mean, I loved horror stuff when I was a kid, But if you're a kid and you're a bit spooked by the scary stuff, you will get the biggest payoff of your life when you get to that battle sequence. Like that,

to me, that balance between the family fun. There's also like I found the overall arc of Thor's story like very moving, and I thought that they did a really good job in terms of the stinger of kind of and we'll talk about that more in a minute, but like, they do a good job. I didn't feel like anything was done to get an emotional reaction for no reason.

I felt like it was very well thought out and fun and wacky and wild and like so much guns and roses in this movie, but it just works so well, and like Taiker, just like they spent that money budget on that and they're gonna make it back. I was looking at going to see it on Friday, and it sold out at like every cinema Emmy, like almost Spider Man levels, and so I'm really excited for people to see it same.

opening of Thor Ragnarok. I remember I remember watching it, and that that monologue that Thor has in front of sir in the cage where he's talking about all the stuff that he's been doing.

in this particular way. I just love you stuff me too.

like weird. And I loved where we left thora at the end of this movie, and I loved this kind of notion of of him carrying mole near and Love carrying Stormbreaker and that just and she has cool like cyclops powers where she can shoot lasers out of her eyes.

And something I thought was really cool was when they mentioned they say he calls Carl, calls her like the girl born of Eternity, which one just sounds really cool, but feels like this is film that I think kind of like Doctor Strange too, which I really liked as well, But like this feels like a kind of a new phase, which is like movies that are just allowed to stand by themselves and just be crazy, wild, fun adventures. But if there's one thing that feels obviously like it's gonna stick,

it's going to be Love. But also I think that notion of her having cosmic beginnings is going to be important and is essentially going to establish her as like a force that can help in the future when we inevitably start to see more epoch Eon celestials. Whoever else this is someone who's standing next to her, you know, Uncle Flora as she calls him, who is the god of Thunder. That's going to be able, They're gonna be able to put up a fight against these kind of cosmic elders.

see and this is old. This is a sixties character, no surprise, because it's absolutely out there created by Stanley and Steve Dicko to icons first appeared in Strange Tales one thirty eight, which was in sixty five, I believe. And so it depends which canon. But basically Eternity is sort of like the beginning of all things Eternity and infinity, and in the Marvel Universe, different universes are created out

of them and from of them. My understanding is Attorney currently is basically the living representation of the six one six, which I think is jevery so interesting. It's everything right, yeah, And then we actually so they they've had Attorney has had many children in the comics because, like you said something earlier which I just loved, Jason, where you were basically like, the reason comics are good is somebody sees something weird and says, oh, what can I do that?

How can I blow up? This is a great example of that. So Attorney's had a bunch of kids. Most famously is Eon, who we thought might have been one of the statues. We're still not sure if it's Eon or EON's daughter, so Attorney's grand daughter Epoch, and these are all essentially these like abstract entities that represent huge beginnings and your ends in the Marvel universe Eon and Epoch.

If you're like, oh, that sounds like something you guys have talked about before, that's because they are the creators of the Nega Bands, which we hyperphesized is something being adapted in Miss Marvel with the Bengals. I still believe that is the case. We saw the bangle on a cree arm. Yeah, so eternity like only usually turns up when there's like a terrible Fanos level threat, which is why he would have been able to be there for Gore.

And I just thought this was like so cool, the wish thing I think they created for this movie, which also feels very relevant with the Miss Marvel reveals recently. But I just thought I couldn't believe how well done

this was. And I think that the notion something that Zeus says in the Stinger, which is very funny because it's like it essentially sets up this notion of the old gods versus the New gods, Jack Derby, but also it sets up this idea that like something that you know many comic book fans and academics and storytellers have put forward this notion Grant Morrison being one of them, and it's been taken in kind of this ongoing conversation. Are superheroes the modern pantheon of gods? Is that what

they are? Because we've created these stories and we've put them on this place, and now we worship them, you know, on the TV and all these things. This is making that text in the MCU where we're gonna see Zeus wants his attention back. So we're going to have the pantheon potentially some of those gods from the Ennead that we saw in you know, Moonnight, We're gonna see a version where the more traditional mythological gods are pitting themselves against what they see as new gods, these people in

the sky, superheroes. I think it will be very interesting to see how Eternity and the actual most ancient creatures deal with that. And also something else I thought was really interesting to throw it back to my absolute favorite eternals. Thank you to everyone who always is like commenting, like don't stop talking about Eternals, Like I do it for

you guys. But like the one statue that we didn't see in the trailer that was there was a celestial So I think that implies with that notion that like the celestials are that ancient as they are in the comics, and I think we're just entering into a really interesting world of like gods. But also it's much more like meta texture than I realized, because I think we are going to be looking at that more boys style conversation of like, are these the modern gods?

And also I feel like in the grand scheme of things, Turney probably pretty happy that that was the wish, like birthing a child that's gonna attend maybe do good, but generally, I think, yeah, I think that's where we're going, is seeing these kind of ancient deities want to take back their power from the soups.

a valkyrie. And I think there's actually a Jane Foster Valkyrie comic, and I think that is very likely as well, because I don't think if you're an Alie Portman, yeah, and you come back and you get to hold the hammer and wear the armor, which by the way, looked fucking banging like they bought Suscil Daughterman's like stuff to life. And Russell and Jason were both at the premiere, which is so great, and like, I don't know if you're just like, yeah, I'm chilled to be on like a

cosmic Council. I bet you're like, so, what's the next superhero? Like, who is next? I want to So I think we could see a Valkyrie where we have Jane Foster as Valkyrie or some kind of super heroic iteration that is more connected like Valhalla. And I also think as well, like I just think that this isn't going to be the end of I don't think so Jane, And here's what's relationship.

in battle, so he's got to go to straight hell. Uh. Thor and Hercules of course have their square off at the beginning of four or five, but then they decided team up. With King Valkyrie's help, they managed to contact Jane and Heimdahl in Valhalla, and then it's a mission in the afterlife to charge into Hell and rescue Odin. Oh, I love the help.

and narrative, and like, I hope that. I think when they announced that Sif was going to be in this movie, and you know, when Testa did her speech at San Diego Comic Con and said, you know, King Valkyrie's gonna find a queen, I think a lot of people were hoping that would be like a love connection. I really hope that whatever the next Thor movie is, or maybe wherever we see King Valkyrie before again, I would like

to see. You know, they did a really good job talking about queerness in this movie and establishing like the queerness of the Cronins and stuff, But I would love to actually get to see that explored a little bit more for Valkyrie, like that love romance finding that again, just like thought after she lost the person that she loved in battle, you know, I would love to see her get a chance to like find someone to connect with and like go around doing like cool.

and it was manifested by Null. Who is this like another ancient Eldritch kind of deity. Now, I would say, I think it's pretty fair to say that in this movie they very much want to say that the Necrosord is like not a living because in the comics, the Necrosord is literally a symbia, and people who have the symbia can manifest a separate symbia that is the Necrosord. I think they very clearly want you to be like, this is a shadow thing, Like this isn't a symbia,

this isn't connected to Venom blah, blah blah. But that said, this is very much like that early version that we saw in God of Thunder, which this whole movie is basically taken from. So I think there's definitely a way in the future that this was just like an early version, or that's how it manifested for Gore, who had this connection to the shadow realm once he got corrupted, which, by the way, hilariously deep cut their shadow realm is like barely even in any Marvel comics. I just that

was like the best Tiger deep cut. But yeah, I think it could not necessarily be retcon because I think this was probably always the purpose. But I think that in the future we should still see it take on those symbiotic tendencies, because I do think a lot of people, a lot of fans, they assume that once they announced this so close after the reveal in Venom, yeah, that

this was going to be Symbia's. They've kept it open, so you could in the future say, oh, it kind of was, But it's definitely there's nothing textual here to say this is a Symbia or this is And also the Necrosord is more of a standard weapon that can weird shadows rather than being something that obviously replicates venom.

style shadows and monsters and beings. It does not seem very hard to imagine that those two things could come together and create a non Tom Hardy's chaotic and van.

these two black swords in the MCU proper. Obviously, the Black Blade is you know, Arthurian legend magical except does correct people, that does corrupt people also, So I wonder how they if there is either a connection or if there's going to be very definite ways that they define these two swords differently from each other.

it is a necrosord, right. So I obviously it's not the version we've seen in the comics, and it doesn't seem to be connected to this, But I think the notion is going to be Like in the comics, there are many necro swords, and I think that whatever we whatever, I think the Ebony Blade is going to be the first necrosword. Maybe that's the one that was created by Null. I think that we're gonna and there's already multiple things called necroswords in the MCU now, both introduced by Tiger

and then confirmed by what If. So I think that that Ebony Blade rip all that can't be a coincidence, just like no Way.

Winter Soldier Infinny were in game, et cetera. Like I have it there because I think it's so fun and original and really great. Like I have it right there, not better than Ragnarrock, but in the tier, whatever tier you want to put Ragnarok in, it's right there with it.

I agree Ragnarok had that like you couldn't you couldn't see it coming and you could never know what it was and that made it like so impactful. But definitely like Ragnarok Black Panther that top tier. But the first twenty minutes of shan Chi that's just like the opening. But yeah, like this is definitely in that top tier for me, and I'm I'm really excited for people to see it. I think this is I saw it when I saw Spider Man No Way Home when I came

out of the theater. I saw it obviously at screening, and that's how we talked about it, but like I went to see it again and there were so many kids, every little kid, every gender, every kind of kid, in every kind of costume, in every kind of Spiderman T shirt from like four to you know, twenty one, like everyone that you could ever define as like a young person.

And that was so cool. And I feel like that audience is gonna really love this movie, and I'm really excited about that because like, yeah, we are the generation that we're lucky enough to basically like come up and be there when the MCU first happened in a way that was noticeable to us because we'd lived through like the nineties where there was like no superhor movies and then we'd had you know, these incredible non Marvel Studios movies, but like we got to feel that impact.

dip into Godzilla Versus Batchel. The final order cutoff has passed, but that does not mean that you cannot go to your comic shop and say, hey, I would like a copy of Godzilla Versus Batchel of Rivals, which we found out sold very well in pre orders. Thank you so much. To everyone who pre ordered, and it's going to be really exciting. We're going to be doing sie. We are going to be doing an x ray Vision giveaway that we will have more information about soon.

Next week, we're back on Friday, July fifteenth to the Miss Marvel finale, a bunch of TV ketchup including the Boys, and more exciting housekeeping announcement, x ray Vision. The YouTube page will be moving from Uncultured on YouTube to its own channel starting this week. Xtra Vision will be taking over the Takeline YouTube channel as the dedicated x ray Vision channel, So check there for all the video versions of the podcast, as well as different video content that

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