Worrying. Today's episode Today spoilers for the sixth episode of The Penguin The Gold Summit. Watch that before you listen to this. Hello, my name.
Is Jason Kenseepsion and on Marsday Night.
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In today's episode, we are talking about The Penguin episode six, The Gold Summit.
In the Airlock.
We will be digging into it, recapping what happened and also the questions, the many questions it leaves us with as we head into the final two episodes of the season.
Up next episode six, The Gold Summit. We open with Oz narrating the come up of his Bliss operation. As we see Vic on his brand new, beautiful, shiny motorbike arriving back in the tunnels.
I thought it was Catwoman. It looks a lot like Catwoman's bike.
I was like, okay, pretty cool. How long do you think this has been.
I think it's been like two months.
Okay, three months makes sense.
Oz uh is telling his his minions that the opportunity is there to grab the city. The falcones are teetering. It's just Sophia now calling herself Sophia Gigante. The Maroni's or they're weak, they're almost nothing. There's an opening for an upstart organization like theirs. Bliss is booming, street level crews profiting off this rising red tide of Bliss, and it's Vic's job on the back of his motorcycle to run product to the streets and then collect cash. Meanwhile,
oz is, of course double dealing. He shakes Vic into his little office, he shows him the map, He tells him about all the street gangs that he's working with, and he says, listen, of course I'm allied with this one and this gang hates that gang, and they don't know I'm working together. But let's keep them out of that. They don't have to know that right now, because you know this is benefiting everybody.
He's such a short sighted man.
That is like my favorite.
I think it's I think he's actually got a pretty good long viewing his plan. No, well, I will say that I do think there's significant improvisation. Yes, yes, yet right.
I would say that's a good way to put it.
But I think I would put it this way. He's looking as far ahead as he can. He is not at the top of the mountain like Sofia and the Maronis and the rest. They can look down at their the gangs and see them coming. He's at the bottom at the valley, and he can't see around the corner. He can only see too the corner. And so I think I agree with you that he is somewhat short sighted, but he's trying to see as far ahead as he
possibly can. And Oz mentions to Vic that with all these deals that he's forged, with all this kind of patchwork network of gangs, the most important, the most crucial among them is the Triads. He has to get them on his side.
Because they can go into national.
Yeah, and one of the most powerful that can go against the Maronis and the Falcons. They're the ones that he needs. Big problem for the underground headquarters and for Crown Point in particular, is power. There's not enough electricity how we're still off all throughout Crown Point. This is now how long do we think this has been now? So if it's three months ish since the last episode, it's been six months.
No, no, no.
The show started like a week after the Batman, so it's literally been like three or four months with no power.
So it's been four months, four months no power and Crown Point City Hall apparently is rationing electricity. Meanwhile, you can look at the skyline see the rest of the city is lit up like a Christmas tree. Vic tells Oz. Hey, by the way, when I was running product, there's people watching like I don't know if they're Falcone. I don't know if they're Maroni, I don't know if they're Giganty whatever. They're trying to locate us. Nobody knows we're underground thus far.
And I says, listen, here's what's important, keeping the love of the streets. You got to keep the love of the street. He wants to be.
The Rex Calibrazy of his life.
That's why he wants more than anything.
That's what will protect us, Oz tells Vic. And I think he really believes it that what they're doing right now, it's gonna go down and legend, Are you kidding me?
And Vick is definitely yeah, he's he is drinking the kool aid at this point, like he.
A little silver plated nickel plated gun now, yeah, yeah.
And his grin is like he feels like he believes Oz and he trusts OZ and that there's this version of his life now where he'll be able to, you know, be remembered. And also Oz is using that classic Mobs the line, which you know, in this case is at least partially true, where he's like, we're looking after the streets. Everyone in your community has money. Now you're giving them jobs. You're making that happen.
It's an interesting point. Let's return to this because I want to talk about that. We go to Falcone Manor, where our ourf wolf wolf Sophia has officially turned doctor Rush into doctor Fido Dogs right. He is obedient to her and he loves it.
And for all the bad.
Things he did, he's done so many bad things and he needs to be punished. He's tied to a chair, he's all scratched up.
She's wearing a delightful design a slip once again.
She's she's uh, you know, using him for her own sexual pleasure, and Oz just a complete, you know, completely subservient to to. Sophia even offers up, hey, if you get a hold of Oz, I'd love to I'd love to help you essentially torture.
Yeah. He's like, I'll use my skill training.
Yeah. Salmaroni is staying at the house.
He's cooking dinner and she's like, stay in your rem bro, and he's like, no, I need to cook this dish to remind me of my wife was also cooked.
Yeah, gave me some pointers on the on the on the yogurt level and whatever. This sauces and he clearly is hurting for his family and and thirsting for some feeling of family. He looks to so feel like how's it taste?
Like yeah, like is this that? And she she can see I actually, there's so many great moments in this episode that are just double handers, like two people in a room together just chatting. And this is a great one because she can immediately see how to ingratiate herself with him because she eats it and she says, Taj was right, is really delicious, Like she sees that he sees her. Could she be a potential daughter. She's someone
whose father abandoned her. Now she now this guy's missing his son, and she already we see throughout this episode has like the clear power in this Maroni Jigante kind of collab, let's call it.
They talk about what Oz is up to. Sal has some idea, but about the various gangs that he might be trying to alie with, and Sofia's like, no, no, no, the Triads, or we go after the Triads because he needs them.
And she knows because she had the meeting, right, that's exactly right.
And the problem, as Sally puts it, is the Triads have been screwed by both the Maronis and the Falcon Gigantes, So what are they gonna do? Sofia's plan is really simple. It's just like we kill their guys on the street. We just lean on them really hard. In the East Side Crash Pad Oz is struggling to keep the power going in the apartment. The generator clearly isn't up to
the job. It's clear also that Mom Cobb, Francis Cobb, has grown fond of Vic and at the same time she's her mental state is deteriorating pretty fast.
Yeah, she's had dementi is clearly.
It's clearly gone. Yeah, it's in control. She thinks Vic is one of the boys. She thinks Oz is her husband. Meanwhile, Vick is kind of playing into it. He's like it, kind of plays along in order to keep things peaceful, and Oz hates that.
Well, you know what's really funny about that is actually there is a belief within certain like you know, Carara communities of people who have Alzheimer's or dementia, of like a compassionate lie where where you don't constantly retraumatize someone by saying, actually your sons are dead. You go, yeah, yeah, they've just gone out, and then that memory is gone the next time you talk about it. You can deal with it in a different way. So Vic is actually
keeping the peace and keeping mum Cob happy. Vic is doing that, and Oz is really unhappy about it.
He finds it.
I can see immediately there that this kind of friendly face that he has put on with Vic is only it's just that it's a mask.
He does believe it is. He does care for Vic.
A little, but the moment he sees his mum feeling tenderness to Vic, he is like consumed with jealousy.
I don't know if it's jealousy so much is its protectiveness. I think he thinks, having seen situations like this, people dealing with a family member who is slipping. Yeah, my read on it is VIC thinks she's going to come back. He thinks if we keep telling her what the truth is, she'll snap out of it, she'll get better.
Yeah.
And I think Vic, you know, obviously, without any kind of expertise or understanding, purely on instinct and a kind of you know, a generous instinct, is just playing along in order to keep her placated and keep her happy, thinking quality of life is what matters here. But I think that it could be jealousy. Maybe there's some of that, but I think primarily what's happening is is thinking, oh Oz can't let go of his mom, he can't let go of who she was, and he thinks that that's
coming back, and that Vic. What VIC is doing is is allowing her to slip further into the dream. I think that's dementia.
That's a great point.
Os Get's call that the triads are they're pulling out underneath, understandably because the guys are getting fucking murdered on the street. You throw it on the news and there's just guys hang it upside down from like from the side of buildings, very Cartel's.
Specifically, there's a hanging element and they chop off the little finger. So Oz immediately knows this is morony, and Sophia like, this is them saying, remember when you cut off Alberta's finger to make it look like I did it? Oh remember how you you know, framed me up for being the hangman? Like, this is very intentionally pointed.
I talk about this because later on Sofia in her pitch to Eve kind of skipping ahead, but she basically says, I'm not the hangman. My dad killed all those women. OZ knew and he didn't say anything. I think that is an interesting tack from Sophia and also an extremely self serving one.
Yeah, of course, stopping.
Her from going to the press right now and saying I'm not the hangman.
Yeah no, I think I think specifically.
She's using her image as the hangman exactly to project terror across the streets, meanwhile putting the majority of the blame on Oz to try and split his allies from him by saying, oh, well, it was Oz who mainly framed me.
But it works in the case.
It works Eve because the truth is that Oz could have told her at any point the real person who killed her friends. That's why it is because there is personal and if he's proclaiming that they have this truth, this honest relationship, and and then she.
Finds out that.
Now, obviously it's not that easy because you can't just like randomly rat on you know, Carmi and Falcone to a woman that you don't know if you can trust.
But it's a very clever attack.
From Sofia, and it's also a smart move because it does just confirm Also the fact that Sofia turns up at Eve's door shows that Oz can't protect her in the way that she wanted, you know. But yeah, it's it's definitely interesting.
We'll get we'll get to that.
We'll get well, we'll get to that. We'll get Oz comes up with an idea to offset this.
This is crazy and I love it.
The Giganti Maronis. He basically says, let's just flood the streets. Flood the streets with free bliss, get people loving it, get them hooked.
In every area, in every tough and when they.
Go looking for it, we will be the only source. You and I our operation. Vic after this has a run in with Squids. Squid's trying to muscle in on whatever it is that Vix got going. Vix got new shoes, Vix got new clothes, Vix got a nice motorcycle, Vix got money. A lot of people an what's up?
Yeah, she wants in.
And what about that old lady I've seen you with? Who's she? I bet it? You know what if I go looking for her, give me an introduction to the people you're working for, Squid says, Vic walks away. Sal and Sophia then break into Oz's apartment and there they find out about Eve, to which I say, what took you song? You're just now going there?
Yeah, also as well, not just that.
I love the moment where Sal is like so angry because there's nothing OZ cares about.
She's like break break, break ship.
She's like, just distract yourself while I go and find out what actually is going on.
Oz returns to the apartment. He finds that Mom has has been this is terrible. The water has gone cold, She's been trapped in the tub. She can't get up she lost motor control. She's trapped in the in the tub for hours, who knows, freezing. He covers her up, helps her out, and in a moment of clarity, his mom, distressed at the progression of this disease, tells Oz that she can't live like this Anymore's she doesn't want to
be a vegetable. He's got to help her die. Essentially, Oz doesn't want to do it, doesn't want to do it, doesn't want to do it, but eventually it kind of agrees. But then, in a kind of heartbreaking final tag to this scene, he helps her get dressed really nice with his jewelry and make up so that she can look like the powerful woman that she was.
Yeah, like mospy queen that she aspired to be.
Vic comes home to the apartment. Oz is working on the power and obviously still hurting over the conversation he just had with Mom, but he's he's taking it out on his frustrations about the electricity. Yeah.
I think there's like an interesting kind of like regression here for Oz, where like we always see him trying to dress as smart as possible, trying to show that he's like above everyone else, But here we see him like almost back in the role of the driver, the mechanic. He's fit, he's working on the generator, he's wearing overalls, and he kind of can't get out of this fear that he has about what's happening to his mom. Like
he he can't hear what Vick is saying. When Vick is trying to tell him that there might be a serious problem.
That's an interesting I have a take on that too. Let's talk about that in a second. Vic tells Os about Squid that this is a problem we're gonna have to deal with. This guy's he's sniffing around. He's I don't know what he's going to do. Oz completely blows past this.
And event he's just like deal with it.
Yeah, events about mom and the illness and how powerless it all makes him feel. And Vic says, well, you know, the good thing is that she here with us, She's here with you, And then Oz is like, what did you say about that guy? And then Vick is like, don't worry, I'll deal with it. I think to your point, I do think that Oz is obviously consumed with what's
happening to his mom. I think this is the thing that's behind everything that he does is protecting her, keeping her safe and in his mind the way she sees him. At the same time, I think this is the moment that on a different criminal level, that he pushes vic like a motherbird from the nest.
And oh absolutely, I.
Think this is the moment where he's like, I think.
He he knows what the probable outcome is.
Yeah, I think he's well aware of it. And I think he's say and I think to your point, he's saying, his ignoring the topic is sincere. But there's also another element to it when.
Yeah, like a Machiavellian light, what are you going to do about it?
Deal with it? This is your problem.
It's also very ironic when he's like so consumed with what's happening with his mom. You know, there's this kind of like duality there. But yeah, I love Vick and VICX like, I'll deal with it. I'm like, don't do it, bro, this quit's crazy. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
We're back, sop he asks around for even Eventually, Roxy, one of the girls from that night at the club with the Bliss giveaway, speaks up and basically gives up Eve's apartment. Oz, determined to get the power turned on in Crown Point, goes and a costs counselman Hayden. He basically says, hey, how would you like if everybody found
out how you paid off your gambling losses? He puts pliers in his nose, he like pulls it his septum, and then he's like yeah, you know, and threatens him, and then Hayden eventually is like, fine, I'll turn on the power, and Iz was like, you have until morning the power better fucking Beyond immediately gets a call from his gang leaders, the distribution his street level distribution network, and it's the leader of the Sullivan's, the Irish gang, and he's fucking scared as shit and he's and Oz
is like, fine, meet me here with everybody.
And he's also like well why, He's like, why is that drugs in my area when my people have already been killed, like my kids on the corner. Why is that happening? And I was just like, don't worry, don't worry, man, just come and let meet me. Not it's all going to be good, you know. He smoothed over, as he so often does.
Vic goes to meet Squid and basically tries to say, hey, listen, I can't get you in the gang, but here's a here's an envelope of money, and you know, maybe we make this like a monthly thing, pay you off, you know, until a spot opens up, and maybe we can you in, you know. And Squid is like, no, fuck the money,
like I want in. You're gonna let me in no matter what, like thinking that he's still the guy that can bully them mm hm, and you know, Vic tries to warn him, like, listen, this is danger, Like don't you're playing with this is bad like that they'll they're not gonna take it the right way, and Squid doesn't care. So eventually Vic shoots Squid with his fancy new Nickei plated nine millimeter and immediately feels really, really fucking.
I think the most interesting thing about this moment is I think what actually drives him to finally make a choice to shoot him is Squid keeps insisting on coming up to the house where Oz's mom is, and Vic is so pushed into a corner by that and not wanting to put Mama Cobb in danger and not wanting to obviously face the raft of oz if Squid finds out. And I think from the moment that Squid said what about that old lady I saw you with, Vic kind of was considering this.
But it's really so sad to kind of see it happen.
And I think something I love about the show, and this sequence in particular is like a great example of it. It's not like some neat you shoot him in the head and then you just feel kind of bad about it, like a video game.
He shoots him in.
The neck and like hits a vein and and it's just flooding with blood spurting out like a horror movie death.
There's a death rattle.
There's a death rot and Vic has to watch it and he just feels you can see he's just absolutely torn up about it.
Yeah, I think it's a really important moment. It reminds me of in season four of The Wire, you know, the one that's centered around these young men on the street gam some of whom are are getting sucked more into the life, others whom are going straight. But in any case, they're just beginning to like sell drugs and be involved on a street level, and they get ripped off.
A pair of them get ripped off by this other drug dealer, and so they go and go to beat them up, right, but then it turns into they might have to shoot them. And I remember watching that and being like shoot them and then being like, what's wrong with me? Like actually, like I was like so like I was, I was so taken aback with how like sick and I was that this one kid didn't shoot the other kid, and I was like, what the fuck
is wrong with me? Like that, I wanted this kid to kill this other kid, Like that's what you want, right, is for the shade of Violas to stop. Anyway, I thought this was a really important.
Scene that they definitely definitely Sophia goes to see Eve, and it turns out that it was Eve trying to protect her women, the girls that worked for her that put out her own location through Roxy, so that.
She was like, just like come to me, just like the girls of the who wouldn't give her up, by the way, And.
She does this primarily because she thinks that Sophia is the hangman and might kill all her girls. Sophia and sists she's not the hangman. She blames Oz for letting the world think she was. Sophia also ruse the fact that she understands she'll never have the loyalty of people like Eve and the thing that she has with her found family of women. And eventually Eve is like, I'll tell her, Oz is he's over the east side by the zoo.
Yeah, And that is like we were talking about earlier. It's very much due to the fact that Eve is talking about how these women that were killed were you know, they were her family, they were people that she cared about, you know, And it is that which tips her over the edge where there is a moment where she realizes, well, Oz kept this from me, and the thing I have to do is protect these women. And how I can do that is, you know what, I'll give Sophia her shot.
Maybe she'll think about us in a different way next time. Maybe she went turn up at my house dressed in design and clothes with a gun. You know.
Let me give the counterfactual too. What's what was Oz's? It's where's Alberto her beloved brother in proclaiming her innocence exactly as the hangman? What is like a what is her driver supposed to do? Mm hmmm, it's it's an interesting conundrument. I think this is really really smart from Sophia to not only to use her image as the hangman in two ways, one to still fear across the city and two to be like Oz, he framed me as the hangman. It's so terrible. We gotta get this guy.
We gotta Vic returns to the underground as Oz is preparing for the meet up and basically says like I, in not so many words, like I took care of Squid. And there's this warm moment where Oz says, like you did the right thing. You're protecting the people that you care about, the people who are closest to you.
And then he like hugs him while is like crying about.
It, which I sound to be both MacB and touching.
Yes, which I think is probably exactly what we wanted, is probably what they want.
And he and he says very chillingly like it'll get easier. Killing people can get easier and easier. Don't worry about it, go home. Rest up. You committed your second murder. Don't forget Vic, this is your second murder. You killed the guy with the car.
Oh, he did, he did, he did crash that car and number probably nimed a few other guys too.
That guy was just was so quick. I think that it was not a problem. Vic didn't even Vic went right to sleep and didn't. It never troubled.
He was also like a paw of you know, the whole like kidnapping Taj and like ten people got a shot in the Tattoo studio and then Taj was Soundpaia with his mom Like, I do feel like that's something that.
Oz goes to meet the street level crews, and this is fun because we get to meet some folks uh to the street level crew captains include Abel Crown, who is the boss of the Massive appears in the comics and Tryad boss Jao, who we've met before. He brings a cooler of beer which he offers them all the Beer Summit, and then he.
And it's the Mayor is like a gold something and this is the Gold Summet.
And he makes his pitch. He says, Hey, the Massive, the Low Boys, the Irish, Sullivan's, the Triads, We're at each other's throats. I think it's also important to note that this is all like this is it's a diverse collection of this is immigrant like immigrant groups, you know, the black gangs.
Speaking speaking of someone who's like utilizing an emotional like connection.
Oz is very much in that Machiavelly and Bakes.
I think this is he's he's making a class based pitch, and I think it's very smart as well. It's so clever, it's and he says, listen that the Gigantes, the Maronis, they fed us scraps, kept us outside of power, kept us killing each other. So here's the pitch. We band together? Why not us? Why don't we take power? Look at the way the Gigantes and the Maronis had to team up in order to keep us down, keep their boot on our necks. Now is the time to take the
city from them. And Jow points out that how can you trust this guy Oz? He's he'll say anything, he'll do anything to get a leg up. And Oz is like, yeah, yeah, go ahead and kill me, but you know this is our chance, right, And he admits it. He's like, yeah, I two time, the Maroni's I two times.
The fuck He's like, I killed Alba. Look, I think this. I think this whole season is calling Farrell he should get an Emmy, right, And he's gunning for it. But this scene where he does his little monologue and he kind of is like, yeah, everything you've heard about me is true, and he's like and I'm just the poor kid who's like doing whatever I can to come up.
Just like you are.
And I will say there's some great cinematography in this episode, and our super producer Joelle pointed.
This out, but we get just as much as we get.
To see the gang leaders react to this news and this pitch, there are these shots of all their second in commands, who are all younger, even poorer, even hungrier, and obviously are also connecting to what Oz is saying. So there's definitely different layers to this. And yeah, it's very interesting. But his honesty it seems to work. His admittance of what he has done.
And I think he really I think his the fact that he really believes this, I think is what sways them. Oh definitely he believes this, and he says, like I did what I would it took because at the end of the I'm like you, I'm a poor kid from Crown Point to the East Side where there's no power on, where the rest of the city is like lit up everybody's forgotten about us. They don't even know they're killing your guys. They don't even know what the name of
your gang is. They don't even know who you are. And everybody agrees, including crucially Jao, who.
Is the lost one to crack his bier and oz Oz gets his beer and he SIPs it, but we don't see the rest of them drink it, which I think is very interesting And to me immediately was like, did he poison the biz? Like is this another one of his crazy cus? I don't think so, but I also wouldn't put it past him.
I wouldn't put it past him, but I think he needs them too much. But it's an interesting idea.
Yeah.
Back at the apartment, Vic still feeling guilty about the at least his second murder, at least at least is shocked when the power comes back on and Crown Point music comes. He begins dancing with Ma when Sophia sneaks in to observe them.
Oh, and Mama, cob is not being sobtle. She's like, my boy, Ozzie, he did it for me, my son, that's my son. Os what cobblepot the guy you're looking for? It's him she's really like. And also, I do really like this reveal, not about Sophia being next, cause I think we could all kind of see that was right, it was gonna lead.
Even though well done. I love Sophia, you.
Know, I support her, but yeah, I love the reveal that in Gotham, this is how things work. If you want the power turned on, if you want the corrupt politicians to stop doing, you just have to go and strong arm them, put some pliers up their nose, threaten them a little bit, and then boom, this can happen.
What I think this show is doing so well is it is really building the world of the Batman and It's Gotham and just how corrupt it is and why it feels like why Bruce Wayne feels like he has to exist in this space.
And I think it does that really well.
And I love the class politics and I love it too, the way that building it out.
And it's why I've been like, you know you sway back and forth. I'm supporting Sophia, supporting oz I. It's interesting I thought of this episode in the context of this an article I read in The New Yorker about this book from the early twentieth century called Plunkett of Tammany Hall. Plunkett of Tammany Hall was this like New York machine politician who made these speeches basically arguing for a benign version of corruption.
Yeah, like it's okay, that's just what happens, that's how things.
Well, I think the point being that, of course corruption is some kind of horse trading, is always how it works. But the point of the article was that in the during this time, corruption used to work for the poor people, used to work for immigrants, that used to work for the people who just got here. It used to work for those not in power, and now it works for
those in power. And I think one of the interesting things about this episode for me is that in this competition between various really really terrible people, Oz is the one that got the lights on.
Yeah, exactly the end of the day, when for the community it's Oz there.
Is And this is obviously very self serving in his and he's talked about this is his strategy is my shield is going to be that everybody in the neighborhood loves me, And I think that And at the same time you have Sophia saying, why can't I get anybody to be loyal to me the way, Well, this is why this is, and it's I just think that dichotomy is fascinating because what Oz is realized is, yes, I'm doing criminality, I'm killing people doing I'm basically in the
running to be a version of the thing that I am talking against. Like I'm gonna be sal Maroni, I'm gonna be Carmine Falcone, just my version of it, right but with my people installed. But he's doing it in a way that the people who truly are at the you know, at the having the short end of the stick, can feel like they're benefiting from it. And that's the difference between him Sofia. And that's what's really interesting because like he has even even says like, what do you know?
You fucking came from the lap of luxury and now all of a sudden, like you're making a pitch to be the crime boss of Gotham.
Also, like Sophia has no interest in anything except revenge, she is.
Conssume important point whereas it's an important point.
Whereas Oz has always had this duality of wanting to make his mom proud, wanting to be a mobster, but he does still have all those experiences that shape two ears, and one of them is growing up super poor and wanting to help out. And also this is a time tested tradition of mobs, like you've got to always be looking out for the community, you got to be helping out with the parades, you gotta be giving the kids some money. But yeah, I do think you raise a
great question. And when it comes to like morally and ethically, obviously, I have my problems with Oz and the way that he treated Sofia, and I love Sophia, but I love Sophia as a very well written and complex extension of like the crazy woman trope, right, Like she's so brilliant and so interesting.
But when it comes to like who would you probably rather have in charge of an underworld?
The pitch that Oz has is better.
It's very it's very very strong.
But he is also like he's so reckless and this is just brilliant writing with the show. It makes me nervous when I watch the show, the way that he kind of like improvises in skirts and he's like this and this and this is it's.
So anxiety and juicing.
I think not for me as well as maybe why I don't see that message of stability that he's offering because the way he does it and the insight we get into his mind is like, this is someone who can tie on a dime and that I think.
That that You bring up a good point, which is we saw it when Oz was bullshitting with Joao the first time at the club and he turns to Sofia after Jah walks away, and he's like, this is great, right, and she's like what he You know, it's like the line from Heat for him, the action is the Jew. Yeah, he likes maybe not all of the.
Juice Sarson of the Jews, he loves the game.
You're absolutely right, that's there. And while he's making this pitch for this grand unified come up of all the downtrodden gangs, we're on the profit of. Lights are on. Look at this ground point is back, you know people, the refrigerators are working and all this is great. At the same time, this guy's a bootleg gambler. Yeah, exactly. He will gain and he loves it. He wants to take these risks, and I think you're right to point that out, Like there is a core of instability in
this guy. Like he there is a chaotic thing about him. If he if he cements his control over this area of Gotham and this underworld, stabilize it, He's still gonna be that guy who wants to throw the dice and see what comes up.
And if Batman comes and like puts him in a choke hold, then it's gonna kill him. Like maybe he's gonna turn on everyone that you just never know. But I think that's what is such a it's make watching this show such an enticing prospect.
We'll be right back after a quick break, and we're back.
Okay, So we got two episodes left of the season.
Yeah, what are your theories for the two five or episodes?
Is Sophia just going to kill Mark Cobb? Is it that simple? Is that what we're going to see? I don't want to look. I don't want to see.
There was a lot of discussion in the discord, which I found very interesting about episode four of this season and how it was pretty hard to watch and like where is the balance between like showing really horrib for I personally found it very harrowing, but also very moving and quite cathartic. I thought it was interesting to show the reality some of the aversion of the realities that a lot of people do go through when they're incarcerated,
and the history of like women being institutionalized. But I do have to say, I don't want to see like a woman with dementia being like tortured, Like I don't want to have to see that, and I'm hoping that the show.
I'm hoping the show doesn't go that route.
But it does feel like the inevitable domino effect is Mark Cobb dies in episode seven and vic Oz kills vic because of that an episode eight, Like that's I don't want it to be that way, but I think that's the logical domino effect, you know.
I go back and forth, and I think that's what's so great about this show is that it always seems like the most the thing that you think has the least chance of happening ends up happening.
It happens, really but that's actually a great point.
Like there's one thing I really respect about this show, and it's a thing I loved about Breaking Bad was that there's a pace and an unrelenting momentum to put characters in impossible positions and then say figure it, like get it figure out somehow, and it always comes much quicker than you. You think the show would sit in a moment of victory for Sophia, for Oz for a moment, but it never does. It immediately hits you with the
unexpected thing. And so I feel like, like, what is the most what's the thing that you can't see happening right now? To me is like Oz and Sophia patching it up. And now I'm wondering, Okay, I would love that because I can't see how it could happen, which makes me feel like it could happen. It could happen.
You're right, how I mean?
I will say, like, for all we know, if we're just doing a little bit of like writers rim brainstorming here, yeah, for all we know, Sophia believes that Oz played a bigger part in her being put away than she did than he did, and maybe that's why it's been so overstated for her. And also maybe she discovers something that reveals that's not the case, or maybe she discovers that
Moroni has somewhow betrayed her. I could see a version where these two odd ball kind of outsiders who have already had this connection of trust at some point patch it up to a point. I mean, if I was the showrunner, I would just want to do that because I would want Sophia Giganti to be in The Batman too.
But I I do think you're right.
I think that the least likely thing does sometimes feel like it's gonna happen.
The sad thing about the vic thing is I do to me it feels fair complex.
Yeah, and also but it's also like, in a way it kind of fits this because it feels like it just shouldn't happen, because like Venzi is so great in this role, and there's so many potentials. He could become a Robin. He could definitely become some version of like the Red Hood, like a Jason Todd style. He kind of fits a lot of what we know about Tim Drake. There are all these ways that it feels like he
could fit into the wider world really easily. And that's why I think that he won't because it feels too connective.
Here's what I think may happen. I think episode seven Oz gives himself up to Sophia because she's got mom oh, and then they frame doctor Rush as the Hangman. He takes the fall as hang man, yeah, thus absolving Sophia of that, and then somehow they patch it up, but I don't know how, and I could easily be wrong.
I think we should talk a little bit more about Eve as well, because Carmen and Joe Go is so good. That's her, and I think.
She's wonderful, established, very strong.
Her is essentially like an actual moral center of the show because she does have that loyalty with her friends, with her colleagues, her coworkers, the women who work on the streets, and she does also have this connection. We know she's called Eve Carlo, so I do think they're essentially establishing a world where Clayface.
Was her father.
I once saw Matt Reeves say he would never know how to do Clayface because he wouldn't know how to do it in a way that was grounded. But I think there's many ways you could do it, and I think maybe the fact that she's called Eve Carlo hints a bigger.
Role for her.
I she is actually now at my top of my list of people that I think will survive. I think that she is now reflecting what Oz does, where he plays the people he needs to play and I think in this case, she made the right gambit with Sophia, and I think that she will survive because I don't think Oz will believe or think that it was her who betrayed him.
I do. I do worry that she may die as a that he will find out and may have her killed. I will say that I thought this was an amazing conversation and it was actually the most I thought it was, like, you know, from a moral framework, ifyone could apply that to these characters. I thought it was like the worst moment for Sophia. Yeah, like it's her, it's her most manipulative, it's her most It's to your point, she's all about revenge and she uses the memories of these women to
get it. Yeah, you know, to take their pain and put it on her and say, really it's aren't I Like, yes, I was put into Arkham and it was horrible what I went through, but like, really, like, we can get revenge by killing this guy who didn't even kill her. That's basically her pitch. And again using the image of the hangman to inflict terror on the streets and at the same time like putting up this is terrible what Iz did to me made everybody think I'm the hangman.
I could, by the way, go to the press any day that they would listen to me as the daughter of Carmine Falcon, Like I could do that now and say, you want a dynamite story, Carmine Falcone is the hangman.
I will say as well, like there are people who know that he killed these women, and that came out at the end of The Batman, at least at.
Least pot there's many, many people, like surely everybody at the club and everybody at the top level of the vocals.
I think it's very interesting.
Also, I think this is the power of this space that they're building and the brave choices they make to not instantly do easy connections, because it would have been very easy for them to include Maria Kyle here, like Selina's mom that we found out about in The Batman. Now she was not She was a waitress at the Iceberg Lounge, so we don't know what that means. She could be, she could have been a sex worker. It would have been easy for them to mention her here
when Eve does her speech, but she doesn't. I also do wonder, Okay, So I speaking of connections, an uneasy connection that I think would be very interesting to make here, would be if there if somehow. I mean, this is probably wishing too big because I think they haven't done a lot of connective stuff in this, but they've done a great job of building it, aside from obviously having
Colin as the penguin. But I do think that there is something very interesting and appealing as a viewer, and I'm sure as a storyteller about the fact that Sophia
Falcone and Selena Kayle are half sisters. And I do wonder if there's anything in these next two episodes that a way that Sophia finds out that Carmen had other children, or that there's because in Sofia's mind, that would be a threat, that's somebody who could take away from her, you know, her her queendom that she is currently building on, the kind of bones of this vengeful killing spree that she's on.
I do wonder if we don't see Eve she's masterfully played these two characters often and gotten what she's needed exactly and from Sophia at different times. I wonder if she doesn't parley that into something more for her and the girl, something more for them, you know, whether.
Even I mean from Oz, there could be some kind of a.
Better split if they worked at the Iceberg Lounge, some kind of protection. It's obviously inevitable, That's yeah. I mean, Also we will I'm assuming that we will see at least an inkling in Oz's eye that he is gonna take the Iceberg Lounge as his own, because that's a classic penguin location which we saw owned by Carmine and the Batman.
But yeah, I'm.
Saying I think this is such a good show. I'm obsessed with it. I think all the casting is fantastic. I think Carmen and Jogo should definitely be up for like a Best Supporting I think, Sophia, I want everyone to get an.
M on this. Everyone is so good.
This feels like it should.
Be one of those like twenty two nominations because the production design is fantastic, the casting is fantastic, the ensemble is fantastic.
Everything about it is great.
I'm a big fan, so I hope it gets some recognition as we head into f y C. Also, the show and it did tease a potential that there could be like she has ideas for a season two and I mean, who would.
It's good.
So I'm like she said that, m I, Colin, we're gonna beat We're gonna put you in that suit. Man, We're gonna put you in that suit.
Hey, put the put the put the suit on, Colin. Oh.
Also, I actually want to shut.
The fucking suit on. All right, this is.
Perfect timing Jason with that beautiful impression because one of our disco users, firstifar, I want to shout them out because I believe this is a first. They said that they think they're the first listener to have ever listened to your penguin impression in the Antarctic, which is where they are right now. So I want to shout out first because I do believe you are almost certainly the first person who's heard Jason's fantastic penguin impression in the Antarctic.
So yes, and I'm sure you'll be hearing much more of it as we keep covering the show.
That's right on the next couple of episodes of X Ray Vision, we're diving into Agatha one oh seven Okay, wait Wednesday, Abu and Aeron are talking about episodes one O six seven off Hurricane Season one of Arcane that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. Bye x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Gitsubsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a
Boo z Afar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman and Heidi our discord moderator.