The Last of Us Video Game Part 3

to The Hollywood Reporter. The reasons for the exit are unclear, but she parted ways with Marvel on Friday, sources say. The article continues. Alonso joined the studio in two thousand and six as chief of Visual Effects and post Production and helped launch the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a co producer. In two thousand and eight Ironman twenty one, she was promoted to President Physical and Post Production, Visual Effects and

Animation Production. The article continues further quote her departure comes in the shadow of ant Man and The Last Quontumania's poor showing of the box office and among critics and fans. Your thoughts, Rosie Night, I was surprised.

huge amount. She's definitely one of the hands that has shaped the MCU as we know it, like as the article mentioned, she's been at Marvel Studio since pre you know,

the Iron Man. But after the initial shock, it also was something that made sense to me when I thought about the recent issues that Marvel has had with VFX, with the critiques of the way the VFX looks, but more importantly, in my opinion, the issues they've had with the treatment of VFX workers across the globe, and especially like the stuff that we talked about before the burgeoning Visual Effects union that Vulture reported on earlier this year.

So to me, my gut says, it's probably in the realm of all of that, though we don't know, as they mentioned the X, it kind of hasn't been confirmed why she left. But yeah, it was surprising and then less surprising when I really started to think about it.

critiques about the CGIs CG that does make sense? It's mess blah blah blah, it's blanned. Many many criticisms of ant Man in the Wasp fall along this similar vein, And then you look at Victoria Alonzo's title and it's

very clear those things fall directly under her purview. And when you couple that with the strongly negative stories about the way that the kind of working conditions that the VFX workers have to deal with, and I think you know, any media company of any kind of scale, and certainly one of Disney size, is very concerned about negative stories.

And at some point it's probably is enough. And on furthermore, you know, there's also the angle that like, hey, if you continue to like treat the VFX workers like this, you're gonna make them form a union. And if they form a union, we're gonna end up spending a lot more money on these fucking movies. And I think that that is potentially an angle as well. You know, I just think, you know, you know, when people are saying, you're a you're a movie studio, you make you make movies.

It's a visual medium, and yeah, visual medium. And when people for seven years have been saying, why do these movies look like shit? And that's your job, I would imagine at some point, like those stories accrue and people start asking questions. Add on to that, you know, the much talked about kind of bottom falling out of various streaming companies. Uh, you know, financial statements, Disney stock tanking,

lots of people getting laid off left and right. Politically speaking, here, you know, there's tons of below the line regular workers who are going to be you know, losing their paychecks. Here is a high profile executive. It probably plays pretty well too, like if you want to be cynical about it,

but I agree with you. I think this probably if I had to guess, and we don't know, but if I had to guess, it's it has to do with the constant criticism and perhaps and perhaps acknowledged criticism of the VFX and the fact that you know, the treatment of the VFX trades people is essentially backing them into a corner to the point that they're going to form a union, which again is going to is going to cost Disney and other studios a lot of money. If that Indie doesn't.

context of the wider world as we know it. I also think like we are in a dicey financial time, and I think that all of these studios are trying to save money, and I think that these movies cost an unbelievable amount of money, and yet they're still not paying people well enough to make them, and this is just a yeah, it's a confluence of drama. Maybe we'll be wrong, Maybe I'll turn out that the Victoria chose to leave of her own varition, But well, we'll surely find out more.

Can we not plan this better? Can we not organize this better so that people aren't working around the clock, and in working around the clock getting really pissed off, and in getting pissed off either refusing to work with us anymore or unionizing to the point that our bottom line gets fucking hammered. It seems to me that that would be a reasonable it's a reasonable assumption to make.

use pixel fucking where Marvel will come back to you a week before the movie is meant to come out and say, hey, we need you to change this one tiny thing, or actually, we need you to redo the whole ending, and basically this is what it needs to look like, So can you do that? So I think there is a need for a more sustainable version of how they make these big blockbuster movies, not just superhero movies,

like any kind of big spectacle CG movies. I also think they need to reconsider the way that they use and the amount that they use like CG in these movies. I think that's beginning to stop people from connecting in the way that they are presenting these stories. So, yeah, I'll be interested to see, but I was not expecting this on my bingo coot of things that would happen in twenty twenty three certainly not.

Action Plan, and every Last Vote. So what are you waiting for? Put your money where your merches and head to the cricket dot com Store. Now we're stepping out of the airlock and into the final chapters of the Last of Us video game to continue and end our Last of Us video game coverage, and this conversation is really going to be about the differences between the emotional impacts of the ending of the game versus the show.

I think one of the things that really we took away from from the conversation in our discord and kind of reading the kind of conversation on the internet and also watching the show and just taking stock of our own hearts, was that the show it's very hard to come away with anything else than being strongly pro jole

at the end of the Last of Us. And that is a really starkly contrast with I think the game, which even even the most like you know, like pro Joel reading of the events at the end of the game paints him in a much grayer light than he is in the show where he and and I think one of the things that that really interests us is like, why is that the case? Why is that the case? So that's what this conversation is going to be about.

So let's start with the last kind of big two movements at the college, where Joel and Ellie go initially to look for the fireflies before running into some of David's raiders and getting into the whole cannibalistic Hulla Blue over at Silver Lake, and then finally the final movement at Salt Lake. I think the first thing I would say is that this the video game. We gave Marlene a lot of shit, We gave the fireflies a lot

of shit. And and I came away from my play of the game and my rewatch of the cinematics over the last week really feeling how long the fireflies had been at this trying to find a cure. We go to the college, you know, and you know, when we go to the college in the show, there's a lot of monkeys around. You see some kind of like scattered you know, boxes and some stuff pinned up on the

what but you really don't know what it is. In the game, you're interacting with all this stuff, and one of the things you see is like an X ray of a person's brain showing the progression of the fungal growth. And then you get all those MP three recorders with scientist with a scientist, one scientist in particular, talking about the kind of arduous process budding that their heads up against this concrete wall of trying to find this cure.

And I thought that really was important context for the emotional reveals that happened at the end of the game.

different way. I think the Salt Lake City University section is a great example because in the show we really just go there so they can understand that the fireflies have moved on. You see the map, Oh, it looks

like it's going to Salt Lake City, you know. But in the game, you're exploring, you're seeing that this was a place that people lived, that they worked, that they dedicated time to, that they had to leave, And you even get like a moment you pull the great clip from one of the MP three's where it's like one of the doctors is considering what to do with the monkeys they've been testing on and he chooses to let them go. He doesn't want to kill them because they've

made this sacrifice. Even that gives more humanity to the fireflies and the doctors and this kind of empathy we never get to see from them in the show. Also, they're missing for a lot of the show, whereas in the game, the fireflies are a constant and whether it's

you other people talking about them. And I just think that there's something really interesting about thinking about ways that we get information in stories, because I do think that finding you know the firefly pendance and learning the different firefly names, and also then finding out there's different stories of these characters through MP three recordings, whether it's Marlene or whether it's you know this doctor. It gives you a much more interactive and holistic sense of who they are.

I think that we didn't have time and also is impossible to do in a game. In a TV show, no one wants to see Joel going around listening to multiple MP three is. It doesn't make it doesn't make sense.

the Fireflies is sacrifice. Like that voice memo you mentioned, the doctor says of the monkeys, you know, uh, everybody wants to kill you, guys, I say, screw that, who

made a bigger sacrifice than you? Right? And then shortly after that he gets bitten by a fucking tainted monkey made choice came for me the way, but it just gives you, like, think about, uh, the emotional toll that this person must have taken to get to a place where here's all these monkeys potentially infected with this deadly virus that has absolutely devastated the globe and caused untold heartbreak and pain and trauma, and you're sitting here injecting

them with cordysips fucking twenty four hours a day. It's horrific to the point where a scientist is just like, I can't after that, I can't do anymore, Like.

his life. And he says, a giant waste of time talking about this project to find a cure. If you're looking for the others, they all return to Saint Mary's Hospital and in Salt Lake City you'll find them there, still trying to save the world. He says, like very very bitterly. And then you get to Salt Lake City with that hanging over you. Of I was gonna say, the fireflies have really, really, really been trying to crack to do this, and what's the missingredient? It's Ellie.

love the choices that they make. Even though I was shocked by how kind of less morally gray and like bleak the ending felt, I still really think they did a great job, and I think adapt I think the game is incredibly hard, But in terms of this specific decision, it's these little moments that teach you so much about Joel and the journey he's on, and kind of you can pick up and foreshadow the things. Even in that moment where the doctor talks about the monkey and says,

like who's made a great sacrifice than you? That's all Ellie's gonna make the greatest sacrifice of all. There's so much great for shadowing, and it really puts you in the position where at the end you're kind of going back through everything and you're like, wait a minute, like what happened? Would why would he do this? Whereas, like you said, in the show, you know, especially people who hadn't played the game, they were just like, yeah, Joel

was right, yeah, Like why wouldn't he do that? Whereas when in the game, it's like it's a shadow of the Colossus level turn, like you do not see it coming and you do not get a choice, and also unbe real. Joel is a brutal person in this game. We've talked about it a lot. He kills so many people, even though him and Elie build this relationship. I think this is another thing on the show versus the game.

In the game, there is I feel like the world is a lot more full of distractions and other people. The show is so brilliantly focused on Joel and Alli's relationship that you don't question it. But again, in the game, I've killed five hundred people by the time I get to that, Like, what one more little girl? If it means you can save the world, do you know? And that's I think why those choices feel so much heavier.

devastated the humanity, bringing democracy back to a country that has been shattered and is being ruled by you know, people desperate people with guns like that is that is a worthy and lofty goal, and she was going about it in such a competent fashion. And then you get to the game version of Marlene. And when the first thing I noticed is when Joel has is he wakes up in the room with Marlene after being captured by the fireflies, and they get captured in a slightly different ways.

They almost drown after kind of trying to move through you know, like a tunnel. And immediately and this cut just a part of the performance, you know, Tory Baker's performance in merl Dandrews's performance. But there's immediately a kind of warmth between Joel and Marlene, like she is so relieved that he's there, she says, I pretty much. She talks about how first how hard it was to come across the country, how many people the lost, and she's

really sad about it. She says, I pretty much lost everything. Then you show up and somehow we find you just in time to save her. Maybe it was meant to be. And then she goes on to say, as Joel realizes, like, what's going to happen, he says, but but Cordyceps is in the brain. She's like yeah. And then he's like, you know, why are you letting this happen? And then she says something that I think really told me why she's doing this right, And there'll be further things that

will back up. I think her choice why it's it's not the right choice, but I understand why she made it. And she and she said, you know, Joel says, why are you letting this happen? Letting this happen? Which I think is important, even Joel right by saying that he's not saying why are you doing this? No, he even Joel in this moment is recognizing that there are other forces at work, that there's this entire firefly organization that is agency in and of itself. Right, she's a leader,

but not the leader. And there's you know, political considerations going on here. And then she pretty much confirms that. She says, because this isn't about me or even her, there is no other choice here. And when you think about the desperation in that scientist's voice, melos how long they've been at this, how they were she says, like, we thought we were done, We thought we're never going to find it, like and then and then Ellie shows up.

And you've got all these scientists that have been working for years to try and crack this code, and you've got all these soldiers that have been supporting them, some of them dying, getting infected, dying to raiders, et cetera, in the hopes that one day they'd be able to find the missing ingredient and and and be able to manufacture a cure, and then it falls into their laps. I don't think Marlene had the clout to say, hold on, wait, don't do this surgery, Let's do some other stuff first.

I think the doctors. And there's gonna be other evidence that is going to bear out what I'm saying, But I think the doctors had been like, we have taste down every fucking dead end street, We've pulled on every thread, We've done everything. This is the only way. And I think Marlene had there was nothing she could do. I don't think she could have stood in the way of any of these people that wanted desperately to do this surgery.

And that, to me is the difference between game Marlene and show Marlene.

I think one of the things that I found interesting about adaptation was the confirmation of a very popular fan theory and kind of this expansion on why Ellie was immune, which was that her mother got bitten and kind of like a blade origin story, right, and now she's a day walker, I mean, And what I think is so interesting about that is because we know that Marlene knows, and because in the room in the hospital where she tells Joel about the surgery. She is the one who

expands on how Ellie is immune. In the game, it's a voice memo from a doctor who kind of says, like Marlene was right, the girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. IMP want to note the cause of her immunity is uncertain, as we've seen in all past cases, and he sort of goes on to talk about why it probably would have worked by making Marlene complicit in not only the knowledge that Ellie was likely always immune or had a potential to be immune, but then having

her be the reason. Yeah, the person who shares the reason to Joel, Oh, she's immune, it's because of you know, she's probably been immune since birth. It gives Marlene a much more sinister edge. In the game, there is kind of this reveal that Marlene has been protecting Ellie because she knew Ellie's mother and it's all through love. And when she tells Joel, I do understand what's going on in the game, she says, I was Ellie's mum's best friend.

I'm paraphrasing, and you know I've looked after her since she was little. I always promised to look after That feels like a plea of somebody going through grief going through something the same. In the show, it feels like she's trying to sell Joel something because she wants to

use Ellie for this purpose. And I think even though I love the acknowledgment of how Ellie's immune, and I think it's actually a really important addition, because I think for a lot of people that could have been almost like a plotthole if it wasn't wasn't explained in the show. I do think it gives Marlene a more sinister edge that makes it harder to empathize with her or feel like she's doing things in an altruistic way, or yeah, it gives her more. It feels like she has more power,

more agency. It feels like she was the one who told the doctor, oh, this is what happened with Ellie. It feels like she is the one who wanted Joel to go there. It loses, like you said, that feeling you get in the game of this kind of momentum that overtaken Marlene and any plan she had. She doesn't want Ellie to die in the game, but there's no choice, and also, who would you know? It's the greater good here.

Marlene just in the show is kind of just like, well, sorry, we're gonna put her in surgery and nothing you can do about it. And it's just it doesn't It hits in a more villainous way.

more of a plot. And then you get to the end and the kind of alacrity with which she is, you know, like hustling Joel out the door to do this thing, feels it feels a lot more like she is driving these events, unless that that they are happening to her now, you know oftentimes in and that's not worse or better, it's just different and it makes Marlene a different character. But I think that's exactly the thing

you're you're you're talking about. Like even the way she says you know, in the in the game, she says almost pleading with Joel. She says like she's not going to feel anything, like don't like and and the way it lands is like she's almost soothing herself about it, because as she said, there's no there's no choice. I don't have a choice in it. But then when she says the way she says to Joel like in the show, like don't worry, I didn't tell out. Yeah, yeah, she's out.

She won't know what's happening. The fact that she then shortly thereafter says, well, what would what choice would she make Joel? It makes her a hypocrite. And again that's not worse or better or any it's just like a different way to tell the story. And I would argue, if you have Paeder Pascal as your lead role, you definitely want the audience to be like Joel, go get them like doing the right thing, like you want you

just want to root for that guy. But that's why the game version is a lot more, is a lot greyer, because you can sense, you know, texturally, how hard everybody has been working to make this happen, to find a cure, and how this all these people who are experts in this, unlike the way we felt about the doctor, who again is like where did this fucking guy come from? You know, like we've seen all the infrastructure now through the voice meamos,

through the different hardware. You're creeping around the you know, the college campus, and then you're you know, you're moving through the Salt Lake City laboratory and hospital, and you're seeing other stuff, and you get the feeling that these people kind of know what they're doing. Now well after Marleon, let's Joel go. Still a bad decision, obviously, but I think one that plays a little bit differently in the game.

She says, don't waste this gift, Joel, and you could, as many people in the discord talked about, like, you know, part of the reason that she lets him go in the show is because she's grateful to him, and I think that's right, and I think that's a direct translation for the game, and I think it's you understand it more in the game, and it's also that you know, there's big things afoot, like let's get this guy out

of here. And then so as Joel has made his break, he's killed a couple of fireflies and he's creeping around like being pursued by them. He then finds another voice memo, and I think this voice memo is really important for what because it absolutely locks in the kind of like supporting evidence of the competence of the Firefly doctors. And it lets you know like how thoughtful they are actually about this thing, even though they are rushing to do it.

And the doctor voice memo goes quote, Marlene was right. The girl's infection is nothing like I've seen the cause of her immunity is uncertain. And I'm going to read all this jargon because I actually think it's important that they put this in here. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenetic titers of the patient's cordyceps remain high in both serum and cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow cordyceps in fungal media, and

the lab will stop here. This is one of our critiques right of the show, was like, why don't you start with blood tests? Why don't you do all these others? They've done it, they tried it, Yeah, they've been trying it. However, it continues White blood cells, including percentages and absolute counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany

the prodrome of aggression and effective patients. We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its destiny. All of our sacrifices in the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause or worse will not be

in vain. Now, imagine that kind of emotion amongst the fireflies. Who's going to be able to tell them no, Like, I just don't think Marlene could have done it. I don't think she could have done it.

that could have saved millions of lives. Yeah, you, And I have to say, Look, I've always been a slight Joel apologist, just because I do think I think that there is something very interesting and analogous here about like real life testing on humans and that like an agency that Ellie wasn't given. So I always found this to be less of a villainous decision and more of this really interesting complex question about who gets to live who gets to die. But in the game, the weight is there.

In the show, as we said, you know, I feel like you really come out of this like it probably wasn't gonna work. And even if it was, like they didn't sell you on how hard it was, you felt like you were in this kind of junk together surgery. There was no blood tests, there was no conversation, and I understand that they kind of they they distilled a little bit of that science into what Marlene says to Joel, but I don't necessarily think it hits that same way.

And when you hear the way that the doctor feels about what they could do a milestone in human history equal to the dissol of pens.

heavier too. But I do think it's a really interesting change because by this point you are so in, you know, you're so in on Joel and Ellie's journey, on the sacrifices they've made together so much the show that it felt so much easier to do in the game. You're like, well, I get it, but there's lots of butts in the show. I feel like it's more just like a j'all did what he had to do? No, but you know, but the game is always this huge well he could all that.

There's a lot more questions, and I think it comes from these really brilliant little narrative devices like the memos.

with that. But I also think that there's a really interesting thing that you're kind of talking about, and I think it's it, And I'm fascinated in how this part of the conversation never or rarely comes up. I don't want to say never rarely comes up, and that is you are the parent of a child who is infected. You're watching them waste away and turn into this like aggressive killer zombie, you know, or you've watched that happen to someone you love, And what would you feel if

you learned that there was a cure. But then someone came along and for that cure to happen, right, a surgery would need to be performed on someone, and that surgery would probably kill them. But everyone, like your child would be cured, your friend's children would be cured, future generations,

for all time to come. There would be a cure. Right, And then you hear that not only is that person, that immune person lost to the people who are trying to find the cure now, but all the knowledge, the hard earned scientific and medical knowledge of how to do this, has been wiped out by like one guy. People would hate that guy one hundred percent. They would be like, that's a kill that guy. That guy's a criminal. He's causing my child to get sick and die, Like I

hate that guy. Yeah, that's a part of this too that I think definitely, it is much more kind of like textual in the game version.

would probably do it. So I think it's a really interesting kind of raises edge that they balance on him.

questioning him herself. This little snippet of dialogue again, it opened another crack into like Marlene's actions, and that is, if you buy in two, Marlene is is does not have the clout to stand in the way of this the decision to perform the surgery on Ellie. Everybody's gung ho for it. There's even if she said no, don't do it, that people would just do it anyway. And and if she did that, like her life would probably

be in danger. But the way I read this line is that I think she's kind of protecting Joel here, Like obviously she's protecting Joel and letting him go, but by not letting anybody else talk to him, that seemed like she's kind of like hanging her neck out for Joel a little bit, like she she kind of like, uh, she kind of like hung herself out there to try and get Joel out of there safely considering what do you do for her.

to recruit fireflies because they always die. And I kind of like the idea, right, I just kind of like the idea that these are just some new guys, so like, why the fuck would they know because they're just hanging around, like and it's they're not going to be there for very long. But yeah, it's definitely very interesting replaying it how differently these little moments play when you have this much more decompressed amount of time to kind of explore

and feel the world. I mean that whole that the finale of The Last US is it's the shortest episode of the season, so it really like.

the show, Joel just shoots him. Uh, and then he continues, this is our future. Think of all the lives we'll save, and then Joel shoots him. Now part of why this is shocking, and we've said this before, but for me, you know, video games are it's about agency, it's about interactivity, it's about immersion. You are the character. I am Joel when I'm playing this game, and after spending X amount of hours depending you know, your mileage may vary depending

on how hard the game was for you. But after spending hours and hours after work, but you know, before going to work during a break, you know, stealing minutes and hours here and there and here and there, working, you know, arduously towards this goal of delivering Ellie to this place where we can save the world from this virus talks. Suddenly have that choice taken from you and you have to pull this guy. That's another part of the emotional impact of the game that is slightly different. Again,

not better or worse, but just it. It's because you were taking part in this story and you and at least from my perspective, I'm thinking, like like any other video game, be it Halo or BioShock or whatever, like, Oh, I'm going to save the world. Now, we're going to do it, yep, And instead I go on a murder spree.

And that is a It's a really shocking and powerful subversion that I think also is strangely one of the most It's one of the It depicts violence in a way that really asks you to think about what it costs, even though obviously this is a video game. These are

not real people dying. But I've it's rare that I've played a game in which you kill people where I've felt the deaths as much as you feel them in this game, and you really feel it in that moment when Joel, you as Joel, shoots this doctor and you have no choice but to do it. They're not even to spare him or don't spare It's like kill the guy.

When I started replaying it for the show and for the pod, it kind of blew my mind from the very beginning how many people you kill and not Federate agents, not infected, but at the beginning, for you, the first people you kill are just henchies, like random guys that you have to shoot in the head. And even in that moment and that brutality, I felt that way eight

And what I love. If there's one thing, I mean, I love so much about the show, but the one thing I think is so brilliant and so responsible and so interesting is how they took that and translated it even in these changes that we're talking about, and the way that we feel like maybe the weight of Joel's choice feels a little less or a little less complex in the finale especially, but throughout you feel when he kills someone, and in the finale they show you the faces of the people that he kills.

You have to. You have to kill them. You have to aim it at him and shoot them, and you can't do anything else.

this like you are doing it. It's you you're doing You could just like stop doing it, but you won't because if you have to kill this thing, why, I don't know. They're peaceful and they just start sitting there happily playing in a field, and you decide to climb up their head and kill them. It's it was like that kind of emotional impact.

I've said, Joel is not less sssorily a villain. But in the game you do realize that in that moment where you shoot the doctor, you look at what you've done and you think, whoa, I have been complicit, I am Joel and I have just like gone through and gone down a hospital, which is why I think the way that they shot the finale and had that kind of Joel disassociating was very again I'll say the word responsible, because I think in the way that we live now,

in the reality of gun violence is like, if you're going to have a character come out of that feeling vaguely heroic, you can't actually make the violence heroic or righteous because it's just too analogous to real life. So there's like a real interesting balance you have to strike there.

But yeah, I mean those to me Shadow Cossus, Last of Us, those are like those two biggest unexpected twists where you think you're going to save the world you think you're doing the right thing, but the reality is that was never the plan.

it really, it really hits. And then of course that end conversation is basically the same as the show. And I think when you get to that point and Joel lies right to you know, right to Ellie's face, I think, first of all, you know, this is a somewhat of a function of the fact that like CG phases her a lot less expressive than human faces. Right Whereas when when Pedro does it, you feel the anguish how much he wants to protect her from any from any and

all threats, and how important that is to him. How much he loves her, how much he means to her in terms of a lifeline that has like helped drag him out of decades of trauma and pain. You know, it's a lot to put on a person. And it's almost like his lie to her is a way of him kind of realizing that that's a lot to put on a person. So I'm going to take that responsibility off of He doesn't.

going to save the world. But because I love you so much, I've decided that the rest of the world can go fuck itself, and every child born from now until the end of time can go fuck itself if they get bitten by accordyceps. Just as long as I can have you in my life, Like I'm going to be that selfish and I'm going to lie to you about it because I'm kind of ashamed that I did that. But it's worth it and that's a very human response. But it's also a much grayer and different response. Yeah.

up in that final moment. It's like, that's the bleakest, the most far reaching question. It's not even but in the game especially, it's not even the killings that's been done then, it's the continued lie. It's the taking away the agency you already weren't given and not and being so obsessed with protecting your child that you actually end up putting them in greater danger. Because, like you said, we all know, like that's not the that's not the end of the fireflies.

not specific. In usual vengeance storylines, you will have a certain person you need to take down, but Joel's grief and his revenge for losing Sarah kind of encompasses the whole world and ends with this horrific final betrayal where he makes that choice for Ellie and then takes away this kind of choice and hope for a cure.

it's gray, right, he's kind of a hero. Outside of that one thin like slice, this little crack through which like light shines through. Outside of that, Joel is the guy who consigned the world to like you know, endless years, if not forever, of the barbarity and sickness and possibly extinction. Like he killed everyone. He killed the world, and it's tragic and it's heartbreaking for all the people who have

been trying so hard to find a cure. And that is an incredible achievement to put you so tightly into the perspective of these two people who love each other so dearly that they're willing to just be like fuck the world, like we want to stay together.

You shoot people, you aim, you do headshots, you stealth. They took these things that we recognize and use for fun in other games, and by the end they're like, oh no, no, don't you understand, Like people who kill five six hundred people casually, they're not heroic. They basically turn around to you and say, you thought that that was what a hero did. No, that that's not how a hero behead And here is the proof because this

is the choice he made. I think it's very I think it's extremely meta, and I think it is kind of this still. I think it gets better and ages better every year as we kind of deal with the realities of gun violence and the way that people use guns, especially in America. I just think it's a really brave choice, and I live to make a story that shocks people that much, but in a way that leaves like leaves

you with a feeling. It doesn't shock you with an exploit of action of violence, even though Joe's very violent. It shocks and unsettles you because you're complicit in the violence.

the exact same birthday when they are suddenly born as suensates. Fundamentally, the birth activates a cerebral connection among eight people across the globe and to a cluster, so we get a diverse cast of eight main characters. It's got a lot of great sci fi storytelling and what's created by the Waikowski sisters from the matrix theme, so you know what delivers on the sci fi and yeh, the show with eight main characters is a lot, but every story is

very rich. They have their own arcs and voices. We have four non white characters, four men for women, one being a trans woman played by a trans woman written by trans women, so that's great, and also other LGBT characters, and they are from seven different countries and the scenes are filmed on location, so it's incredibly beautiful. The main

themes of the show are identity and connection. Has a lot of great action scenes and some humor, but the best part is seeing how the different sensates connect with each other and accept each other. Each one struggles with their identity, especially as they awkwardly navigate new abilities such as telepathic ish communication or visiting and being able to take on skills and languages of the other sensates in

their cluster. The first season is especially fun as they discover themselves and their other selves, and they also discover more clusters of sense hs which they can still communicate with but don't possess their abilities. We ultimately get an evil corporation hunting the sensates as well. The show doesn't shy away from topics such as religion, sexuality, sexism, transphobia, and homophobia. I think they tackle these with a lot of care and sincerity too. But warning, it does have

a lot of graphic sex and violence. If you don't want to see a used dildo in pride colors, this isn't for you. Unfortunately, it was canceled after season two. Look Netflix cancels another diverse show, so we won't be getting any more. But pians. We're so upset about the cancelation that they started a petition and we're able to get a two hour finale. Finale was a bit rush, but at least we got one. Overall, sense it is ambitious, compelling,

and if nothing else, an incredible journey. Thanks for listening, Thanks page.

Mic that uh, that nobody else knows in that. So I'm gonna let the monkeys go, Mike. I'm supposed to. I'm supposed to off the monkeys, Mic.