Hello, My name is Jason and I'm Rosie Knight, and welcome back.
The x Ray Vision of the podcast will be dive you to your favorite shows.
Movies, comics to pop culture coming from her podcast will.
We're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
In today's episode, we're going to start off by arguing about what constitutes the science fiction movie and will that take up most of the podcast potentially potentially because it's been taking up most of our life in the group chat. And then we will be presenting our faith.
Each of us will.
Present our five favorite science fiction movies, see if the judging panel of our peers agrees with them, and then you will all be able to vote on whom do you think has the best five top science fiction films.
And the democracy will take place across multiple platforms, mail in voting, DMS, post scored, wherever. However, you want to reach out to us and tell us whose list of five is the best, you go ahead and do that.
Let's get into it.
Okay, here we are. We're about to put up our x Ray Vision crew list of our favorite sci fi movies that are not Star Wars. Oh yes, important, No, Star Wars and no Star Wars, and we may exclude other things. But first let's introduce the crew. It's me Jason, it's you Rosie, of course, but let's welcome in the Superducer team for today.
Joelle, how are you yo?
Devastated to learn that so many people don't know what's that.
Coming out?
I haven't even introduced everybody Else's no ability for everybody else to retort. Super producer Aboo.
Welcome, great to be here. I'm personally devastated that Joel doesn't seem to know what sci fi is.
But wait, okay, okay, hold on, please college calm down. And finally, our final super producer, Carmen. Carmen welcome, thank you.
Hello. I am just here because I love to discourse, so I cannot wait to discourse.
I came to be messy.
She's like, I can't. She's like, my android phone has been messing up the iPhone group chat, and please let's not get into that.
It is. I mean, there's a multiverse right now where different versions of ourselves are taking place, are discoursing in different group chats through time, and we don't even know where they all are. It's like messages are only going to like different people in the group chat at different times in different places. Anyway, here's the question before us today, what are the best? What are our personal best non
Star Wars sci fis? So as we prepare to answer that question, let's first talk about what is sci fi? I think we all have our own ideas about what it is and what it looks like. But much like the Supreme Court's definition of pornography from like thirty years ago, now.
It also feels like it's kind of a know it when you see its situation.
Yea, and I think the borders of sci fi are, you know, from person to person or a lot more porous and a morphous than uh than perhaps the standard definition whatever that is. So let's talk about it first.
What Joel, I.
Feel you like bucking in the in the pen ready to be released?
We got it, we gotta we have. Because Joel doesn't even think that Star Wars is a science fiction THEA, let's start there, Joe, what is what is your definition of sci fi?
Okay, so for listeners, this started in the group chat or like what and I was like, well, it's gotta absolutely like have science in it. It's science fiction. It's the whole points analyze science. Okay, And people are like, you actually don't need science, which is bananas. Why even call it science fiction if you're not gonna have science as a base element of the film.
Okay, it doesn't make sense to me. Star Wars is a fantasy. No, there's no elements we did not see either, no testtoobs. We're not.
You know, there are droids, which I might make an argument for making a film a sci fi in a minute, so I might have to eat crow on this.
We do have droids.
We have robots on planet Earth. But here's here's why it makes a difference. Okay, here's why I don't count it. I like Asimov. Isaac Asimov a writer, foundation and many other side. He's one of the Big three or whatever. His thoughts on what science fiction are is that it's mankind's reaction to science and technology. Okay, And in Star Wars, we're not. We're like, droids are just there. They're so commonplace. This is no, not a reaction or instated into the storytellers.
So let me just to just to clarify for the audience. Yes, your position is that because there is no discussion of how say light Speed works or you know the science, yeah, or the science behind how the artifical artificial intelligence of Droid's work. Therefore, Star Wars is not a sci fi. So that's your position, which, by the way, I'm respecting, right, No, I appreciate that you No.
Yeah, if you're not in, if the characters are not engaging with the science or technology, it's not.
Can I can I as a pushback? As a slight pushback?
Aren't.
Hasn't this kind of market and efficiency been corrected by the creation or the acknowledgment of the sci fi sub genre hard sci fi?
Because hard sci fi is because.
Hard sci fi is more of the you know three body problem foundation.
Sure, you know what's an actual scientific theory?
Rightly?
You know sci fi?
Right if Freakinsteign kicks off the genre that's not based in anything scientifically factual, and it doesn't need to be. It is based in this idea of like, what is the possibility of science? And if we rely and lean into it, how does that affect us as Hugh? How does it change how we see ourselves as human? And I really like that. I think for me that's what the category of sci fi is trying to accomplish.
Okay, does anybody have any drastically different definitions of sci fi?
For a control?
Well, I uh, I've said my piece. I will push back later, but does anybody have a drastic like a polar opposite?
So I know you've got at least some thoughts on this.
Yeah, I think my definition of sci fi, rather than being the polar opposite here is more that my sci fi umbrella is just much bigger. It encompasses so much more. For me, a lot of science fiction is speculative storytelling, and that encompasses a lot of different subgenres, of which
hard hard science fiction is certainly one. But you have your dystopian sci fi genres that aren't necessarily grounded in this one piece of technology caused the dystopia U. We're certainly going to be debating one of those films later on today, and so for me, the for me, science fiction is a genre of storytelling that really turns a mirror on humanity through whatever device or setting that it may be, right, whether it's we're set in a dystopian
world and we are taking a look at humanity through that lens and providing social commentary there, or we're in Star Trek and it's like zap zapp lasers and space battles. Both of those to me are equally science fiction because they are providing a level of social commentary through their settings, characters, technologies, et cetera.
Can I can I with a gentle pushback as well, is name me any genre of storytelling that does not quote, turn a mirror on the human condition.
I would say there are certainly genres of storytelling that are less focused on social or political commentary. I would say, for example, something like fourth Wing. While there are political elements in that story, I don't think that. I don't think. I don't think the main goal and the main message of that story is I am making a commentary on how humanity exists today. I think science fiction and the best of science fiction does that.
Does anyone have any other meaningful critiques or things to add to the discussion of what is and what is not sci fi?
I will just say I do think that sci fi. I am in the mindset of it being broader. Like one of the original posts, you know, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, which is the first science fiction book. As much as other places would hate to give credit for that comment, Actually, why don't you jump in with your nerdy fact that you've put in the group chat, but did not feel brave enough to say against Joel.
Well, yes, thank you for giving me the floor. I just wanted to say. Mary Shelley was so it was a dream. She had a nightmare she had, but she was inspired by a previous demonstration she had seen Luigi Galvani perform on a dead frog. He was a man
from Italy who invented the Galvanic method. I only know about this because I was an esthetician for ten years and he made this dead frog move around using electricity, and later like she had a dream about it, and I guess dreamt that she could make a man come to life using electricity, and then wrote wrote the book.
You know, I would say, like, that's eighteen seventeen. In eighteen seventy you have twenty thousand Leagues under the Sea by Jules Vern which might not seem like a science fiction story, but is very much in that space because he's going under the sea instead of into space. So I think the notion of exploring some kind of territory that we've never seen before, whether it's medical like Frankenstein, whether it is a space like underwater or whether it
is a space like space. I think that the notion of needing to explore something new. I mean this even fits in with dystopias like you are in the Hunger Games. Yeah, you're making a commentary on humanity, but you're also imagining a way that technology and media could be used in
a terrible way, kind of like nineteen eighty four. So I think it's also about imagining and embarking on a new location or a new technolog I think that has to be some kind of exploratory angle to it, even if you're just exploring a hypothetical of what could happen in the future.
I see I also have a I think a larger view of what sci fi is. I take the view of that to counter Joelle. I think, first of all, it would be too destabilizing to the.
To the to the.
DVD and labeling the genre marketplace, on the genre community to suddenly it would just be a massive upheaval. I think of like suddenly Star Wars is going to have to just be labeled fantasy. I think it'll be confusing to people, and I think that for me, I think sci fi is simply does the story have at its heart, as part of its like load bearing plot, have technology or devices that do not exist currently. I think it's for me. For me, I think it's it's really that simple.
Now.
I think we're going to encounter in our discussions stories where you know it's on the border of maybe being a sci fi or maybe some something else. But then like characters have communication devices that seem advanced. To me, that's if it's just like a couple of devices, but it's not like central to the plot, it's not sci fi. Whereas if it's like back to the Future, to me, is sci fi because the whole thing is like time machine.
Even though a lot of the story is not sci fi, none of the story happens because because if there is no time machine.
So that's my tick. Does anybody have a problem that I have?
I think making the cutoff there technology that does not exist today undercuts like ninety percent of Black Mirror, right because Black Mirror, for me, I think it's at the core of sci fi is asking what if it's what if this thing was taken to an extreme or this is the direction humanity went, what would happen? How would we react, What would that mean politically socially? And so I think making the cutoffs something that doesn't exist today excludes quite a bit of sci fi that asks the
what if question? What if ai xyz? What if you know this this technology had this effect on the environment with stuff that's already happening today.
Hmmm.
I take your point, But now does anybody have any issues with it?
Here's my retort. I think a lot of black.
Mirror is like, what if we were even more addicted to our phones than we are? What if this technology exists has driven us completely to one side of the spectrum?
Is that sci fi? Or is that social commentary? To me?
Existing technology? Plus, uh, look at the way we are engaging with this a story that hinges on, look at our relationship to this technology is social commentary. Allah uh, animal farm and not necessarily sci fi.
That's my I agree with that. I know I would also say I think that the issue. I guess it's not an issue. This is the kind of conversation we can have because we love this stuff and we watch it and we can buy all the time and get really granular. But I also think we got to about the fact that like ninety of a viewing audience who put on an episode of Black Mirror and it's about like an evil iPad or whatever. They're like, yeah, this is sci fi, Okay, you know what I mean?
Like, I think, I think some entry point, it's a lot of I think a lot of Black Mirror is sci fi, but I think a lot of it isn't.
Like, for instance, the very first Black Mirror.
Episode of you know, the guy who gets the president of the Pig and the Pig?
Is that sci fi? It's actually not sci fi? I will agree with that, Okay, So I guess it's an episode by episode breakdown.
Right while the work now Sandra Depero sci fi true, John Hamm and the Ai sci fi like, but some of it isn't.
Some of it isn't okay. I also have to bring up because I think this would be a question that at least one person would ask. We are not including Star Wars ops, and I think that you'll see from our pics we are not including a lot of bigger
franchises in general. Yes, but let's quickly talk about the the Disney shaped elephant in the room, which is that going by a lot of our uh kind of reasoning that we have laid out here, the MCU, Iron Man, Black Panther, those are very much in our sci fi space we are I think we're not including them because of the same reason of Star Wars. We want to talk to you guys about movies maybe you haven't seen,
or movies that we really love. But isn't it interesting to me if I think of the MCU, I don't think sci fi just off the top of my head. But I was going through the movies and I was like, well, Black Panther is definitely sci fi and always has been since it was first created an Iron Man. Obviously, the version we get of it in the MCU is extreme sci fi, and when you get to Endgame and there
is like cosmic Battles, that is also sci fi. But I am going to put a disclaim head that there are no MCU movies in our pick well.
I think the issue is this superhero, which I think has become now a genre of its own, is a super container that contains every genre. It can be a spy film, it can be a crime film, it can be a fantasy, it can be a family movie, it can be a sci fi and often it's often it's all of those things in one to you know, lesser or greater effect. So I think that's we're drilling down specifically on the one container that is sci fi to try and defind what what is Shall we go to
our Okay, we talked about excluding Star Wars. Is there any does anybody here feel strongly about excluding anything else?
I feel like Dune is just such an obvious answer.
Yeah, that perhaps in the interest of exploring a large.
Ready to go to l A. I agree with you, girl. If we're if we're not counting Star Wars, which is, you know, spoiler allat basically just June ripped off, then it makes sense that we would also not include June. I think. I mean Star.
Wars is don't hold on, don't don't don't discount how much it also rips off foundation.
Also like every Corsi. Yeah, yeah, but I would also say I think I think Dune would have been able to be included pre the Billine movies, which have exploded it to a whole different level. If you were coming here and you were like, I'm arguing that my favorite movie is David Lynch's Dune sci fi movie. You know, five years ago when none of these existed, I probably would have said, Okay, there's gonna be enough people who this will be like a new entry point two, that
it's not so broad. But I think that now I think it is a big enough one that we also cut out.
So looking at looking at our lists, here's what I think we're doing. And tell me if anybody disagrees with this. We're saying no Star Wars because you know, it's kind of like the big daddy of sci fi Joelle and all apologies to your particular critique. And I think Dune simply because of recency, let's put it away, because I
think everybody. I think what we're kind of circling around here with our list is, hey, maybe you haven't seen this one, or this is a big movie but it came out twenty thirty years ago, and maybe you haven't seen it and you should watch it because it's maybe one that slips through the net.
I think that's what we're doing. Do we agree?
I agree?
Yes?
And so is does anything else rise to that level of like you've probably you know, like we don't need to discuss this Terminator for instance, or or Star Trek or Alienmina.
I'm also going to say, like a movie that I don't think anyone has on our lists, which I would say two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, right, I would say, you've heard about it, seen as high as you go. I would also say I am interested because I'm trying to think of other big franchises like this, and I mean, I don't think any of us are going to include these, but like Planet of the Apes, that's definitely like one of those big sci fi franchises.
How does Joel feel about it?
Is it? I looked at it for a long time. Here's what.
Definitely are right right, You're talking.
Right right right.
They're testing and they create these, you know, like hyperanals.
So the new ones definitely are. The old ones might be more fantasy.
Mm hmmm, I think yeah. The old ones are almost more like a old universe, post apocalyptic world kind of sur.
There's very little science. The rocket ship.
I do believe I was gonna say, I do believe that the notion of the movie is that you could go through space so fast and so long that you would end up in the future. So I'm like, could it be? But anyway, basically irrelevant because none of us picked them. Now, I will bring up one that I was considering a lot, and I'm not going to include because I do think this is too popular. But what about Godzilla? Because the original Godzilla movie from nineteen fifty
four is about a nuclear bomb. It's about the evolution of like a dinosaur like creature. So and it started a subgenre kind of like Planet of the Apes did with this. But the Godzilla sub genre was, you know, kaiju science fiction. There's definitely movies like Godzilla versus Bolante where you have the movie where it's like the scientist is doing the experiments to create the kaiju. But I think that we are in a Godzilla, I think the
renaissance right now. So I don't think we need to include those either.
My thought is that is a very specific genre. Now that well, I agree with you. It might have started as like a sci fi offshoot. I think the monster Kaiju, Kaiju Monster, It's it's like the Blob, King Kong, Godzilla, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, Attack of the fifty the Woman great one.
Yes, So okay, oh, that's I mean that where do we stand?
We are where do we stand on the sub genre of shrinking or growing? Joel incredible shrinkingly.
It absolutely fits into the notion of how we explained honey, I shrunk the kids, but like, yeah, incredible voyage. I think, oh yeah, I loved the Incredible Voyage as a kid. I think it's going to be very interesting because I think, really what this is and what this conversation is is about the sci fi stories that speak to us and the kind of vibes. Now, I will say, wait.
I just want to say one thing that I think that we've just should hammer this down. So growing into a monster sized monster movie, shrinking so that you could go inside a body or inside like between particles, science science fiction.
Monsters.
Okay, we gotta keep.
We gotta make the rule book.
Ye are we?
Are we not? Are we thinking post Romulus post the kind of big boom with Alien f coming? Is Alien? Is Alien franchise out? Is it too big because it is science fiction?
I think it's you think I think it is science fiction, and I think the alien movies are my sense, is their fair game?
And then we can you know, we're going to debate these.
Yeah, so when it comes up, But I think people should feel free to try it. It's not like Star Wars, where it's a hard exclude or do.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I like that. I like that.
Okay, should we should we take a break and then get to our lists.
Let's do it.
Let's let's take a quick.
And we're back.
Okay. I'm gonna just say, our order of list is just gonna be my riverside window in clockwise order, starting in top left. So that means, Carmen, you're gonna start, You're gonna give us your here's what I think we should do. Let's all give our fives, and then we will go through and in the same order, we will vote on everybody's list. Carmen, what's your five?
All right? So at the very top of my list is definitely my favorite sci fi movie and the one that I can remember seeing first that wasn't a Star Wars property, And this is the fifth element. I was
like seven or eight years old. My dad was taking me into a Hi Fi buys and there was a home theater demonstration, and it was the scene where they're actually like generating Leelou's body and then putting like the clothes on her, and I remember being I remember being absolutely mesmerized by that, and I remember my dad being like, we gotta go, we gotta go, and I'm like, no,
I'm watching this movie like this is cool. I love it. Actually, yeah, it's like it's I rewatch it constantly because to me, it's like the one of the gayest sci fi movies that exists. Chris Tucker is amazing a Mealy, Bruce Willis is at his peak of sexiness, costumes done by Jean Paul Gautier, amazing McDonald's costumes by Jean Paul Gautier. Okay,
I'm there for it. And then the last thing that I'm still obsessed with today from this movie is the Chanelle branded I Makeup applicator where she puts it over and it instantly gives her an I makeup. Like we're still waiting for that in twenty twenty five.
That's technology that doesn't exist.
Yeah, next one is gonna be for me. You're gonna notice a big theme on minus cyberpunk. Ghost in the Shell love the original Ghost in the Show choice animated movie. It inspired the Matrix if you don't know, And yeah, it's it's one of these amazing stories of like transhumanism and if all of my parts are replaced with robotic parts. Am I human or am I a robot? Which is it?
You know?
And so it's a very very interesting question of what makes someone a human and what makes somebody synthetic? And I just love that theme. Next one for me is one that I watched recently. This is nineteen ninety seven's Gatica.
There's a banga movie, I you really pay.
Gattica is a great one for me because aesthetically, I love the way that it combines film noir aesthetics with that kind of like sci fi aesthetic. And so I'm really obsessed with the film nor aesthetic, which we see in Blade Runner as well, and I love that that's like just so throughout Gatika, the hair, the makeup, the styling, the clothes. I don't the script doesn't even have to be good for me, y'all. It could just be about the aesthetics. Okay, okay. Next movie nineteen seventy four's or
two thousand and four's The Stepford Wives. I rewatched it last night and I changed my mind. I'll tell you why. It's kind of a boring movie and not a lot happens. And then I realized, and then I realized, wait, Companion is a movie that I saw earlier this year that I'm absolutely obsessed with. And thematically they're not at all
about the same thing. They're obviously about two separate things, but thematically, thematically, yeah, I think it touches on a lot of the same issues of what it's like to be a woman in a relationship that you feel powerless in and you feel like a piece of property in, you know. And so Companion is a great, I think upgraded version of the Stepford Wives.
I was gonna say, I also think you saved yourself because Stepford Wives is definitely getting into that, like what does it count? Like where which version of it? What's the reveal at the end? Like you you depend on.
That right exactly, And it's it's such a slow burn too, I'm like, damn.
Call Companion definitely a science fiction yes, so what is it?
So?
Is it so Stepford Wives? Is your is on your list?
It is?
Or Companion has taken its.
Companion has taken its place. But I wanted to tell a little story, Okay, okay, okay. And then my last one is of course the classic Blade Runner in nineteen eighty two. I live that it combines the film noir aesthetic with the cyberpunk aesthetic, which I think this is probably one of the films that like really establishes the cyberpunk I think.
You're I can feel the audience screaming, which cut Carmen, which yeah, common.
Look, can I be honest with you all? When I go to the movies, I am the I have the propeller hat on, I have the big lollipop man. I've just I love the movies.
I don't let me let me.
That has do you like compassion? That has the voiceover or doesn't have the.
Voice no voiceover?
Okay, that's that's at least.
Woman original director, original directors.
Yes, and I own that one, so yes, yes. And that's my list.
Great, great list. Up next A boo, A boo? Your five?
Okay, my five? And this is in order. Starting out one is Children of Men, followed by This is already controversial, This has been blown up the group chat. Number two is heard.
Been one of my favorite movies of all. Yes, mine too, and I will be arguing in favor of a food.
Number two is her number three, District nine, number four Arrival, and number five ppacific fucking spacific.
Rim some interesting things to talk about.
Considering discourse exactly, considering we divided kaiju into a different category.
But I will say though in Pacific rim they are naturally occurring creatures that come through a portal. They do not grow to a crazy size.
All save it for the discussion, but I agree this is an important details. You know, I think all great movies I'm eager to debate my list. Here is my list, in no particular order. Edge of Tomorrow twenty fourteen, the Tom Cruise box office bomb that I think is one of the modern day sci fi classics lived I repeat, et cetera. One of the great groundhog day genre subgenre movies based on a comic, The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind two thousand and four.
Come on, it's such a beautiful girl. Will take away credit from Garden State. I think to me, Garden State really did it. I would get it in a way that was that Eternal Sunshine cemented it as a as a genre staple.
I think to me it Garden State, because of the soundtrack track aspect, really put the manic pixie dream girl center stage in pop culture because it like surrounded her with this sound, with this uh suite of songs, that. I don't know about you, but I was. That was in my iPod, iPod shuffle or iPod or whatever I was using at the time.
Sorry.
So Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind. I just think it's a beautiful, incredibly beautiful, beautiful looking, beautifully shot movie. Jim Carrey, if you're ever like that, guy's not a real actor. Eternal Shunshine, he goes the full, he gives you everything in that film. Kate Winslet at him, unbelievable, shocking chemistry.
It's just a good movie. Strange Days.
I think, here's my bubble pit, Here's the one that I could feel people maybe trying to shoot down. I think that this and Children of Men are two of the most prophetic dystopia's, Like we live in Strange Days now and Children of Men we will be there in fifteen years. It feels like Strange Days.
Great movie.
If you haven't seen it, I believe it's on Criterion and you can probably watch it on Max or.
Something like that.
Also, Hot Hot Ray Fie, does everybody does anybody remember pre Voldemort when Ray fines.
Angela, Yeah, it fine as hell.
That rembers.
Oh my god, good god, really good movie. And it gives you a version of Los Angeles that feels like old and new. Aniara twenty eighteen. I saw this movie recently. It's a Swedish film about You can watch it on Hulu, and I recommend you do. The thing I love about international sci fi, recent international sci fi is you know, like we're so CGI dependent here with like Western big
budget movies that it can feel kind of lifeless. And Aniara has there's a dramatic, like a human quality of the kind of practical effects of like the more focused utilization of the CGI they do have of there's a creativity, like it's clearly shot in the mall.
It stands in for a.
Spaceship and it's about a journey to Mars that gets rerooted because of space debris and the collapse of the internal society over time of this spaceship. And it's really dark and really scary, but also very human and.
It's good, it's worthwhile.
And then finally they live nineteen eighty eight, John Corp That just just one of the great political sci fi thrillers, with everything completely over the top. I think it you could convince me that this is John Carpenter's masterpiece.
I think people are. I think people are having that conversation now, especially because this is an extreme, extremely influential movie.
I yes, up next, Rosie, It's me.
This is very hard. I love lots of movies in this genre, but I am going to say number one pick is a Kira. I think that's one of the best movies ever made, obviously one of the best animated movies ever made, very defiantly about the strange world of kind of experiments and esp It could also be argued, I am aware of this that is more of like a supernatural movie if you really dig into it. But I think with like the visuals of Neo Tokyo and the kind of way that a Tomo perceives the future,
I think is I think it fits. Also, I will say my second pick is of two Jehoven movies on here at Starship Troopers. I think that's like a really fast ready to do my part. I'm ready to do my part, and I will say, who knows, maybe somebody will argue that akin to Black Mirror, this is actually very much in the space of like a satire more than a side. I think that monster is monster. I think it's sci fi in its establishing tropes, trappings and story that it tells with the satire on side. Our
third pick is my second Verhoven movie. I could have put, honestly done like five Viehoven science fiction films, but this is RoboCop. I think it is a masterpiece. I think it's a sci fi masterpiece. I also think it's very prescient and scary and all that kind of stuff. My next pick is the far more family friendly but still ultimately terrifying Jurassic Park, one of the greatest science fiction books and movies ever made. Is it more of a
monster movie? Let's argue about it in a minut And then my last pick is the really, really weird and haunting High Life from twenty eighteen, directed by Claire Denis, who I love, stars Robert Pattinson and Julia Binochet. I was originally going to include her movie from two thousand and one, which is called Trouble every Day, which is about to be showing at Bleak Week in la and it is so horrible and scary and part of the
French New Extremity. It really launched the French New Extremity movement, though she didn't get any credit for it, but I decided that was like much more in the horror vein, even though it does have a lot of the conversation kind of points that we said about starting a horror I mean starting as about science that we don't have and experimentation. But yeah, I'm going for High Life because it is set on a spaceship. It's about space colonies and space prisons and the way that people are exploited
in prison and in kind of capitalist society. So I think that works. I also have five alts for whenever you guys are trying to take my off the list, and then finally Joelle.
All right, here we go by first one is the day that Erst is still the nineteen fifty one edition, not.
The two thousand. With love and respect to Keanu.
No.
I mean, if you haven't seen the film, it's genuinely a masterpiece, but it's it's an exploration of like, when humans feel threatened, what is our reaction? And it's mostly violent and it's pretty horrible.
Uh.
To the Fly one of the most Disma original.
Wait wait wait wait, I remake I remake sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, Jeff Goldbloom, Jeff gold Bloom. One really works for me because Juloom is unbelievably hot in that movie, but also the bodygore transformation. I think we live in a world really obsessed with plastic surgery right now. And if you watch The Fly and this like like incredible push to just constantly be altering and changing and advancing, and then the like complete falling apart of it, Like I just
I really really love The Fly. I went back and forth on my time table movies guys. Originally I was like, Back to the Future, it's epic, and then Aaron said, I can't believe nobody has said everything everywhere all at once, And I said, oh, pause. And I think because time travel is more essential to everything everywhere all at once in that there's a constant use of it and a flux and a twist, where as opposed to, you know, in Back to the Future, it's a it's a direct thing.
You go there, you got this car, you come back.
Yes, if he doesn't. If he doesn't go there, he's going to not exist. So I would say it is quite important.
Also, we know all the history of popular culture is okay.
This white boy just store black history.
I could come on, never have had the idea it's not for Marty Fly.
Yeah, so I think you know everything everywhere all at once. Just a good point. Then I was gonna selling harm in this morning.
I was like, oh, I had Smart House on the list because Guys as a child more game changing than Smart House.
Watch it's such a good movie.
But then I was thinking about, okay, well, this is my kid's movie sort of on my list. Is there some a movie that does it better? And The Iron Giants like one of my favorite films.
Of all time.
We do not have this technology, and the exploration of like what is a gun.
O my heart?
I do not have an Iron Giant?
We could use one? We could use one.
And finally Alien for I think reasons I should be obvious, but could technically be voted out.
We'll see.
Well, I think this is a fan whatever happens after the ad break, let's just acknowledge this is a fantastic Yeah.
Good for us.
If you are gonna go out and watch some sci fi movies, you're gonna be pleasantly surprised to find an fae from this list. No question, like whatever else happens after the break, whether we are still a pulcast after that, whether we still are friends, after that. Just remember, guys, we put together an incredible list.
The knives are coming out, accrat and we are back. Okay, so should we go? Let's go in reverse order with peopless films to vote out films. So we'll start with Joelle's film Bring It, and here I will repeat the list again today. The Earth should Still nineteen fifty one, a true classic, The Cronenberg, The Flyes, starring Jeff Goldbloom and Geena Davis looking super hot, both of them. Uh, everything everywhere, all at once. The Daniels Kaye Kwon. I mean what is to be has not be, said Michelle Yo.
The Iron Giant, A heart and actually a movie that's so good that I don't rewatch it because it makes me feel too feelings that are too deep and alien. Just one of the great, one of the great films.
Okay.
Does anybody have any uh pressing criticisms or issues to raise with the list?
If not, I will start, he said. Guess what I do?
I do have one, I think, and I'm happy to I think I'm gonna get voted out, but I want to raise this. I think Animated is its own thing. I think Animated is its own an can't be I'm not saying it. I'm not saying it can't be sci fi, but I'm saying the surreality and pure imaginative nature of animated like Superhero is a super container for genres. It's not that it's not sci fi. It's not that it's not fantasy. It's not that it's not a family drama.
It's that because it's not based in material objects that are filmed, it is a pure imagination space that can be all of those things. And therefore I am voting to exclude.
I may be.
Voted down because of the lists that are out there, but I just wanted to raise he said, I.
The Spielberg film. You remember The Battle of Leader? Or do we consider this film sci fi or not? Based off of your animation?
Anim but it.
Is not fully captured either, and the scope of limitation is about the same as well.
Guys, I'm going to tell you the issue here. The real issue is that we are no longer talking about though. I do believe that if we had laid this out before, we could have separated animation potentially, but that is a format issue that is like a medium, it's not a genre issue. So I don't think we can take things out just as like we couldn't take out other live action movies because there like, I just don't think I think it's a format issue. A boo. I saw that you had some thoughts.
I agree entirely. I don't think we can entire storytelling. Animation is a medium. Superhero films are not a different, entirely different medium.
Jesus right, But I love but we all love our pixels.
Okay, selective hearing is wild.
I feel I feel like Rosie has a great point.
I agree with.
It's a medium in this well, I agree that it is a kind of storytelling, but I think the medium is still film, is it not? So? I I kind of feel like the medium is still film, but the style of storytelling is animated. And I take Joel's point that there certain stories lean on animation to a lesser and fuller degree. But I do think fully animated films now you know, now we're going to talk about motion cap and what about what if? What if the characters
are motion caps? But I still fully animated films. Well, I think we did for but I think that fully animated films personally, I feel like should be excluded are its own thing, and we should have our own list of those films.
But I know I'm going to vote.
With hands yes, sure the eyes the eyes animated are voting no.
The the animation is in.
Okay, animation is in. I raise your hands like animation is.
So that's three. Animation is out.
Four to one.
I'm voted down. Okay, So animation I will bring I will bring up the issue an issue that I think we could talk about. The Fly is undoubtedly a science fiction movie. But is it also is it like nowadays in twenty twenty five, is it also to perceived as a horror movie? Like are we? Are we giving? Where do we put the lines on that? Because like the Fly is a fact, it is a science fiction movie about well if you could, uh like meld the man with a fly? First of all, why would you do that?
So now we don't have the technology. But like I also do wonder if like is it is it like too horror or are we I guess alien is also horror sipers, So I guess the question is how subgenrely are we getting in?
But you could see a world in which it would be billed as a horror movie. First, you know, like the and it was marketed that way.
Is genre horror or is it sci fi?
No, he didn't try to turn himself into a fly. It was an accident.
It was an accident. He was trying to teleport himself success, but he did turn into a fly.
Yes, yes, And basically I'm.
Hearing that despite Joelle's controversial ideas of what Star Wars is or is not, whether it does fit into the sci fi genre, I'm hearing that her pigs are actually quite uncontroversial. Well, well, I would say that I have another tells. Yeah.
Look, I don't even know if I entirely believe that I have thought out loud, if when I think of everything everywhere, all at once, I don't think my first thought is not sci fi. I was about to say, you know, I understand that it's a parallel timeline story. There's time travel to some extent multiverse, like yeah, multiverses at its core, those are all sci fi elements. But for some intangible reason, I do not think of that as a sci fi film.
It feels, well, can I try to Can I try to clarify because a boo, I have the same feeling. Although again, I'm happy to be voted down. Here is my feeling with everything everywhere all at once, I think I think the version of time travel that is being displayed in this movie is essentially like a higher understanding of the natural world and less using science to access
the time stream. It's like, hey, nature and the quantum realm give rise to this kind of thing that's happening independently of our story, and our characters kind of get sucked into it. There's very little like Okay, although I will I will eat hold on. I do agree that characters build technology to access the multiverse. But that's why I'm going to ancillary to the kind of existence of the multiverse.
To me, it's on the bubble.
I'm happy to have it, but I have the same kind of reservations that a Boo has. Carmen, I see you the fingers up the nails, the clause.
I'm well, I'm just I'm thinking about other things on the list, and I'm thinking if we don't consider Everything Everywhere All at Once a sci fi for the fact that they are using a higher consciousness to access time travel, then Arrival would also fall under that same category.
When well, well, let's stick to let's stay we I don't disagree, but let's let's stick to the list. Let's take the vote on everything, everywhere, all at once. Let's take a vote on everything everywhere, all at once. The yes is it is sci fi. Let's see the show of hands. Two, let's see the show of hands.
It is not sci fi. I think I.
Might not have spoken up and the bravery of that man, so we're gonna have to go to an alt But let's let's go through the rest of the list.
I now, I just want to raise this issue.
I think I don't subscribe personally to Joel's I think a little too targeted definition of sci fi.
But I have to.
Wonder if the films on Joel's list actually rise to Joel's definition of sci fi. Alien for Existence, for instance, I agree that there's a science officer and there's an AI, and there's a discussion of like stuff mining and geology, but it's.
Also like not super explored. I don't know. And I think you could say the same of.
The Iron Giant, which is like they never talk about what the giant can do. In fact, like explicitly the technology behind the Giant is just kind of like mysterious and just almost disx machina. Do you have any I sense you having a retort? Joel, what is your retort to that?
Okay, so for alien to start there, because your big bad is ultimately a deceiving droid who is so human they don't even know. And then the mother of sist, like the plot is you've been set up to die, so you could worth alien here.
That to me is what makes it sci fi.
I would agree that if it was more alien, we could be more creature focused, but aliens sort of like almost like you know, also lured into this trout like also a victim on some level, and so that's why I classify that sci fi. Now for Okay, Iron Giant, I hear your argument. I think for me, what makes
it sci fice? And maybe this is getting too niche, but like it's set in the fifties, so like this robot is like already like sort of like this way futuristic appeal to this character, and so he doesn't really need to understand the science because the whole point is like could science create something that then is like so horrific? The device itself is like I'm not interested in being what you've programmed me to be and that to me
is what makes it science fiction. It's like this again, a human reacting to the technology and then the technology reacting back.
Like that's peak science fiction.
I would I would also say, I do think I don't fully buy it, but I'm excited.
I am also saying, guys, this is this is the cause of what we have, what we have tried to sell out here is you start laying out boundaries outside of just like vibes, because then you're like, well, the day the US, that's still like, I mean, yeah.
Obviously it is a science fiction because there's like an alien, But then you're like, so does any movie with an alien count as science fiction?
So let's just murte on the let's just moan on these alien. Yes, it's sci fi science fiction.
I'm sorry, guys, I was the only one who said, let's hear the dissenting opinion. What do you say, No, it's not.
Yes, Okay, you were just lacking. Sorry, So alien is unanimous sci fi? The Fly sci fi? Yes, I think unanimous, The Daily still sci fi.
Yeah, it's sci fi. The Iron Giant there is no double jeopardy.
But who agrees with me that the Iron Giant does not rise to Joel's definition. Rise to Joel's definition Joel, Joel is already in.
Guys, I'm I'm proposing because of how in depth this is, and because we could obviously talk about it, so they how about instead of proposing alts for the five, the final list that we recommend is just all the stuff that didn't get strike sure.
I like that.
I like that we can certainly the the altar are gonna get heavily talk. Okay, next up Rosie's films.
RoboCop, Jurassic Park, Highlight.
Does anybody have any outstanding issues with any of these films? We could start there before we start votes.
Perfect I'll raise the bubble. I think it's on the bubble. Jurassic Park? Is it not monster? I understand those genetic engineering, but is it? But is it primarily monster? I also, well, I'm not supposed to do this of my own thing, But I also do think you raised an interesting point about like the notion of like effects and animation, because honestly, is Jurassic Park not in hindsight more of like an unbelievable step forward in special effects making it a special
effects monster movie. I could agree, but I think I'm gonna make the argument because I did pick this. The science of Jurassic Park is such a huge part of it, but there are literally when you go to Universal Studios, they have toys of the like you can buy you and buy stuff. It's so much a part of it
that we all understand. We even know the lore of it, which is that the reason that they couldn't control it and life would find a way is because they used a frog that could change its gender, which allowed the animals. You know, I think it's so much a part of it that we almost might forget it. But I do think that discussion.
Is that I think Jura part films lean more monster film, but the first I agree with enough.
Science, I tend to agree to it. So we don't seem to mind that the science takes place in the first fifteen minutes of the movie and eighty five percent of the rest of the movie is a monster run.
If they did do science, that they didn't do science, the monsters would not exist. I tend to agree with you.
I just think we need to be rigorous. Okay, any other outstanding issues that anybody has with this list? A cure Starship Trooper Robochopterissic Park, High Life.
I mean, if we're gonna talk about animation, I've already.
Raised my issues.
I feel like I said my piece.
I got shot.
I think it's so multi genre that it's hard to pin down. You know what I mean. It's it's definitely got the sci fi elements.
I do think that that is the case. That was my issue with everything everywhere once, So I will hate you. I'm also just gonna warn you comment and you know I love I'm gonna warn you this, this very argument could potentially be an issue for one of your picks. They're very still.
Hold on, I'll say, I'll say, I'll say. The thing that goes through my mind and a Kira that doesn't that that army kind of like sets is that the supernatural children like that whole Like that's true?
Can I And I feel like I don't want to feel like a broken record, but I want to ask, just ask the question. Is it not more of a kind of superhero story in that it is both animated
and a mashup of multiple genres. I agree that there's a sci fi element, but like like the Iron Giant, which is in there, I also feel like along with the genre mash, along with the issues that animated that I'm the only one that cares about if there's also the ancillary issue that it does not rise to the Joel definition of sci fi.
That's true, that's true, and so there's that. Sorry, any other?
Is the sci fi aesthetic and backdrop of Neo Tokyo enough to call the whole movie side.
From dramatic great points?
I think that's what we're So let's take a vote. Let's let's vote on the list. Let's we'll start with a curra.
A curra. It is sci fi hands.
O curra is not sci fi hands for one, it's not sci fi Oh my god.
Struck out.
Starship Troopers.
It is sci fi show of hands.
Yes, he.
It is sci fi show of hands. Yes, okay, good.
The Jurassic Park it is sci fi show of hands. All of us unanimous, despite the significant issues.
With the balance. Thank you, high life.
It is this, shouts declared, she's amazing.
It is sci fi show of hands.
Five to one.
Okay, your vault, what are you gonna put in there? As the alt seeing as I feel like this is gonna be the one that is least controversial as we've already essentially we have already essentially agreed that this does count as science fiction and not a monster movie because they're getting very, very small. I am alting with the classic Inner Space about a man who gets shrunk so tiny and then injected into another man in the mall.
And for some reason, I fucking love this movie as a kid like I just think it's a really fun kind of family throwback movie. Yeah, and bait and it is, like I will say, the one thing I will say, definitely in the comedy space, but we spend a lot of time both inside of somebody's human body in a little capsure ship, and then there is kind of a more broad action comedy experience going on outside.
But I will bring that in as I think it's gonna win. I think that's a unanimous it's science fiction. I think we all agree with that. That is x ray vision, x ray Vision's law. Shrink is science fiction.
Grow is miss.
That's gonna really start some conversations. Okay, let's go to a quick break and then we'll be back with more.
And we're at okay. Next up is my list Edge of Tomorrow.
Eternal Sunshine is spotless sign Strange Days, Aniara, they live. Anybody have any issues with my list? Okay, and I can see I'm gonna I'm gonna bubble issues.
I'm waiting for them. Yeah, Okay, I'm gonna put something out there, Shine of Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Okay, it is based on a technology, as Joelle was saying, but if Akira is essentially like, it's got the aesthetics of a side but is not a sci fi is a title Sunshine and Spotless Mine a movie by one of my favorite directors, by the way, which I do love, but like, is it sci fi enough? Or is it like an indie kind of drama with the sci fi element? Interesting?
This is going to bring up her issues, I can see, But the rest is effectively I will. I see your point, And I was, and I was anticipating this. I think I'm going to raise the Jurassic.
As soon as I said it, as I said, it was like sh.
And say that that because everything happens because of the mind to race Son, it's true, therefore it's sci fi correct. But I'm any other issues with this, I'll raise so to me, Strange Days has a little bit of the same issue. It's essentially a very very immersive arc technology, and with the kind of all future take I could see it being on the bubble. I just want to raise the issue with it.
I think. I think the thing about Strange Days is that falls into almost.
Your Akira Blade Runner issue, which is like, is it is the esthetic and the vibe and the vision enough.
Is it more of a post apocalyptic movie? Is it more of a sci fi movie? I love this movie. I would actually come down on the side that it fits within the general parameters, though I don't necessarily know if we have, like off the top of my head, a very incisive conversation about the technology as it exists. But I do think generally I would like it to be on the list because I think it's a really great movie and for a long time was not available for people to watch, So I do think it fits in.
I think the number one to me for the way we're doing the list, I think the absolute safe one on your list is Ani first of all, because I think that's like a heart I love that movie. I think it's a direct science fiction film A lot of times actually the notion of a low budget sci fi It's why I picked high life. They often feel a lot more like the science fiction we grew up with, and like this very physical, touchable sci fi. I would say, I do think there is an element. I'm not gonna lie.
As much as I do love this movie, I think it's amazing. I have watched the fucking Jijak like They Live breakdown of the trash fight like five hundred thousand times.
You know the aliens, you know the they common state they are are politicians with the new liberal politicians.
I'm gonna say the technology of the glasses in They Live is very fucking bad. Like you put them on, it's kind of magic.
You put them on, you can see them.
And then like they don't really talk. Then the it's kind of more of like a conspiracy thriller. So I would say, but aliens. It does have aliens aliens, but is aliens enough for it to be a sci fi movie.
Isn't technology so advanced that you don't understand it essentially magic?
Well guess what that is? Exactly? Yes, Also, I mean I'm not I'm not gonna lie. That is basically like the biggest argument about all sci fi. So yes, very good, you know me.
I treat features.
Features in that case, Man, I gotta tell you something. You bet you lucky that the day the up stand still because that's a Preacher features alien.
Let's vote. Let's vote, okay. At Edge of Tomorrow it is sci fi.
Yes, yeah, it's a time lisk, but it's sci fi. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, it is sci fi.
Yeah.
The Jurassic corollary gets it in there straight days. It is a sci fi show of hands yep, okay, five Aniara, it is a sci fi.
They're all going through that.
Here is the bubble one they live. Is it a sci fi?
It's not a sci fi? Four to one? Hold on what?
Okay?
So let's hear it though. What is not a sci fi?
I can see if you want to tell me, like, it's a political thriller with sci fi compiracy thriller festival.
Where does he gets the glass movie?
It's also a horror movie. He finds the glasses just in a ball, and I look.
I need them to come from.
I mean the science of broadcast communications and the electro magnetic.
List of I no, the hacker takes over the TV, but I'm sorry, both of those technologies do exist, and I would say the book it does just like it's just like crash Box.
I want to just point out that one of the things we did establish with the Iron Giant is as long as the science was futuristic for the period, that is true.
But but but somebody taking open like a somebody being a hacker in the late eighties that existed in the termina. I'm willing to again, I I I get it. I'm willing to. Okay, So we voted it's out?
Is it? Is it out?
I think it's out.
Okay, So then I'm going to gosh, let's I'm gonna look at my I do, but but I can see I can see some uh some holes in some of them despite them being great.
Okay, what about this, I'm gonna go with I know what should goodness, you don't know you're gonna go with. I'm gonna go with nineteen eighty five Enemy Mind, And then I know it as a sci fi movie, guys, I just know he loves this movie.
It's it's so I do love this movie. Dennis Quaid and Lewis Gossip Junior are are a human and alien, respectively, on two sides of a galactic war. They get maroon together on an icy planet, and they have to bridge their differences. Dennis Quaid also in Innerspace, what a sci fi career he had in the Ees. Let's take the vote on it, Enemy mind.
Is it a sci fi? Yes?
Sorry, I haven't seen these, so I just want to just want to clarify one point. So he's a space traveler who runs into an alien.
No, no, no, there's a there's a galactic war going on and he they are both starship pilots on opposite sides of war, and they're right, and they they crash
on an icy planet. And uh, I should say that the plot hinges significantly on the alien biology of of Jeribah Lewis Gossa Jr. And the fact that the males of the species, in their of their race give birth, and so Lewis gossip Junior gives birth to Zamus, and uh, Dennis Quaid's characters feelings of warmth and a fatherly love for this child is part of what brings peace to these two warring nations.
I gotta say, it's giving me a little children of men where it's like, okay, where is this scientist someone.
Right now? And then there's and then there's the science. Where's the science of like an alien species giving birth? And how they definitely humans.
Delivering the baby?
Are they?
Dennis Quick? That helps?
Louisconsin Junior is like, you need to help me give birth to this child. I'm going to talk you through crazy.
Okay, we can't.
Beautiful and forgotten film it.
Is, but not forgotten on X ray vision, not a Let's hold her vote? Is it sci fi?
Yes, I'm gonna give this okay.
Oh Joelle, you never actually voted in an all after you lost everything everywhere. We'll come home. Up next to boot film.
Children Children of Men Her District nine Arrival Pacific rim any outstanding issues from the group for a Boo's List, Joel, I see Carmen, excuse me, I see the I see the nail up.
A cool claw. So Children of Men I was definitely on the fence about because I kept saying in the group chat, I'm like, it's just a dystopian probable future, possible future. There's no future tech in it. Now A Boo has very cleverly, very very cleverly, It's included a screenshot here that is what is this?
It's a at best minor plot. This is the son of a This is the son of a of a character who's playing like a Tetris style video game on it. They never discuss it, and it has nothing to do.
With the.
This show came out in two thousand and six, which is before the iPhone, and we're seeing like touch interface in the screenshot.
So by the rules I does that's fair. I also just have to say, guys, sorry to get bleak, but I'll tell you something that exists in this movie that doesn't currently exist but could soon exist. I mean, there is like an entire economic, uh kind of landscape in this movie that A big part of it is that they have like special pills and then areas where old people can go and kill themselves. But it's not like
your traditional suicide like we have seen. It's this like mass version of it where it's also like essentially mandatory. I think that that is a technology that we don't currently have, thank god. And I will also say I just I do for me. Children of Men is a science fiction because it also is based on the notion without this nothing would happen. That there is like a human evolutionary change, and the evolution very changes that nobody can give birth anymore?
Right?
That is interesting to me. That is a science fiction hypothetical, even though it's not about creating a technology, it is about the science of human beings and how we evolve and how we.
Like special point of it. I'm going to here's my issues with it again.
I love this film.
One throw out the game console. You've got much stronger arguments than that, because it really does not impact this wave. I think, to me, is this not more of a this is a story about public health and societal collapse? And I agree with you that is it an evolutionary change? Is it a public health issue? I think we've all lived through an event that feels broadly like Children of Men that in ways that feel that feel very now
true to life. Would I would argue that this falls under the I would argue that is this not a dystopia, which are not necessarily sci fi?
Right?
This is more of a collapse of society story less a science fiction story.
Those are the issues I have with it.
Does anybody else have anything else about that or anything else.
Well on the list?
Or should we just I would say to just kind of I guess okay, I said this in the group chat, but if if Children of Men is considered a sci fi and we have like maybe one example of future tech in it, would we consider The Handmaid's Tale a sci fi if it had future tech in it?
No?
No, I don't think it's aciehy, Yeah it's not. I do think the delineation here between dystopia and sci fi is blurry, And so I can understand how this is a controversial one. I'm believe them.
Mount amount of has been going games not a sci fi?
Right?
WHOA is a sci fi? S Okay?
Sorry you guys, I think you were just saying, to Rosie's point, if we're going to start splitting hairs between what is dystopian, what is post apocalyptic, what is not? I suppose that while we're here, but we risk a slippery slope.
You know.
I think we've already slipped very far down the slope by knocking Akira off of the list, honestly, But if we continue.
Down this, which which you have.
Later, I'm utterly regretting my choice because it throws most of my listed Like the way as well, if if we knock off Children of Men, you could argue, like iconic sci fi films snow Piercer Fahrenheit four fifty one, The road like these are these could all also just.
The roads the road vote pier.
Not being uh.
That yeah, the children a train is like nineteenth century.
Never say that Snip has an infinite engine that does not exist.
Let's just say, well, let's not it's not on the list, so let's not get into snow here, sir. Let's not get diverted snow here, sir. Okay, films on the list that we I'm going to raise a couple. I lean that her is included, but I but I just want to raise it like we're it's basically relating problem of phones like that, it's here. This is technology people are falling in love with as right now.
I was gonna say, like till till this year, I would have been like, yeah, huh, great indie sci fi pick. But I will say I have seen many screen grabs, many men who are like falling in love with AI. I also have many close friends who play the hilarious game Love and Deep Space, which is essentially about having a sexy AI boyfriend. And there are people who are
just having chat GTP be their real life girlfriend. Now, so I don't know we have to basically, yea changed we a like a are we at like a weird transition point when stuff that we are experiencing we have to accept is still in a science fiction.
Change just because time has passed and and and that's an interesting question because I know that does happen if you live, we might what was once considered comedy might now be a drama because of how these situations.
Sure, but I do think that it's it's strange.
To say, like, just because the technology is caught up to where we were at that it no longer qualifies.
I think it's the technology.
I do you think it's a bubble question? And then finally I gotta say, I Pacific rim feels more. I mean, there's a there's a portal under the sea, and the monsters.
Come out of it, and I think that how.
It's a challenge because there's so many mech suits in it?
Yes, how are they don't? I don't know? Okay, no, no, no no.
I was also the issue of like, why here's the thing that's bothered me up a Pacific forever? Use the fucking sword every single time? Why is why does he only pull the sword out?
What you get that makes it side by. I don't no, I'm going to tell you that. I'm gonna tell you something. Guys, somebody has watched it, has I've watched Specific Rim a lot. But I do think actually in this case, I think a boo has found a get around on our fried you rule because not only do they not grow bigger, but also there are mech suits, and not just that the technology within the mech suits is overly explaining that maybe some people do not like it that you have
to drift, you have to connect with someone psychologically. There's a lot of technology there that does not exist and will probably never exist, but is a major part of the first specific Can I just think he works? I agree it's on the bubble? Does it not?
Though fall a foul of extra Vision's lag growing as much? I think that while it is monster with sci fi elements, is it not?
Is it not monster?
That's all the masters growing, But if it's still tall, it's still one hundred feet two hundred feet tall. I think, like we don't see God's will grow, but it's still obviously monster anyway.
Okay, And I will readily admit that Pacific Rim doesn't even meet my standard of sci fi, like what.
So comary.
You know.
And like, but it is just okay, children of Men, it is sci fi. Show of Hands. I think it's sci fi. It's just too it's so, it's two.
To three not sci fi.
Crossed it off. I listen.
It's one of my top we've gone so far, we've crossed the room conversations.
It is sci fi.
It's not show of hands, it's sci fi. I do think it's yeah five, it's sci fi.
Christ nine. I think clearly this is sci fi, has tech elements, it's very interesting.
Uh, it's sci fi very clearly. Side by Pacific rim it's side by show up hands.
I'm gonna.
Okay, okay, okay, I think you know what.
I think that the brain drifting technology.
I know.
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna vote against it. Okay, your altaboo.
Honestly, I could divert for another twenty minutes by picking snow Piercer as my alt.
But don't do it, Please don't do it.
So I'm going to I'll throw a blade Runner twenty forty nine. Let's have two.
Yeaheah, Okay, that's it, and I think we all agree that that's sci Fi. Yes, if Blade Run side far sci fi?
Yeah?
Yeah, okay, okay, let's go finally to Carmen's films. Here we go, Boy, the Fifth Element, Ghost in the Shell, Gadica, Companion, Blade Runner. Any outstanding issues that any that he has I've raised my I think the Ghost and Shell might have the cura issues.
Can we start there?
Does Ghost of Michelle have a cura issues?
I think that it does, even as the person who raised as I'm saying, I'm saying, I do think. I do think. Actually specifically in this case, I am on common side because I think that the technology aspect of Ghost of Michelle is incredibly important.
It's at the core and the transhuman history.
It's the transhumanism. It's all also just like aesthetically and the images that leave an impact on us. They are about the technology, they are about the way that this character moves throughout this super high tech world. So I actually think Ghost of Michelle is sci Fi. I'm onside, I.
Lean to agree with you.
Any other issues I have something else?
I guess I have a please, I guess I have a question Karmen about Companion. I haven't seen it, but earlier we raised the potential issue of is this horror first and sci fi second? And isn't Companion also about like falling in love with Ai? So are we running into her issue here as well?
Well, he's actually not in love with her, He's okay, No, she's a possession the way.
Yes, I would say the issue with Companion is that you could argue, and I really enjoyed this movie too, I think that you could argue that Companion is like a broader movie kind of in this space of like a ton of Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, but more in like a comedy crime space. But the movie doesn't exist without the Companion technology.
Yes, so I mean we do have to.
I don't think it exists today or yes, no, no, No, it's a full it's imagine if you had a imagine if you essentially had like a sex robo, but like it's not just like it's not just like a Silicon sext door like they sell now. It's a full human being who also doesn't know that they're a robot sentience
and it's controlled by an app. So we're kind of far away from that, maybe only thirty I'm gonna look, I'm gonna say my controversial opinion here, which I feel like has probably just been absolutely erased by the fact that we just voted Blade Runner twenty forty nine through. I think that Blade Ranner, Oh, he has a lot of the same issues as a Kira. It's noir, It's
it's about a visual I escape there. It's not a lot of conversation about how a replicant exists or a replicant is more just like something that is created and is human and robot.
It also raises questions of transhumanism.
I think, no, it's honestly the fact that the replicants are like the main point. I can't really argue this, but I will say some of the arguments used against Kira esthetically the way.
I think that there is I think, to me, the biggest question mark on this is the fifth element, which I think has I thought.
Enough fantasy elements Like it's really.
It's you know, we're talking about like ancient Egyptian culture like integrating with this high space operatness that doesn't actually have any discussion of it's more like just by that this whole world exists and that there's like an ancient Egyptian space cult that has a chosen one that has risen again after they've been broken out of like their like rock Crypt. It feels like this could be an Indiana Jones movie, also, which I agree has sci fi elements, So I just wanted to raise it.
Listen.
I think it's it's objectively true that the fifth element does not rise to the Joel definition.
It does not, but I will say fifth element, this to me is like past flying.
Future, yeah, and which they create an entire human out of just like a little bit of you know.
So I don't know.
Okay, so let's take the let's ship this Common.
I think Common might have the first full five.
Let's see.
Let's well, let's vote on it. The fifth element. Yes, it's sci fi.
They generate a whole person.
I'm I will say that I voted for, but I'm like only three and a half ghost in the shell. It is sci fi, Gadica, it's sci fi. Great companion, it's sci fi.
Yeah, it has to be bleed. N't get it?
First five?
You got ya?
Okay, so everybody's tween Joe and Joelle.
Let's get your alt okay, uh, the matrix and do another Aaron poll. Aaron was upset it wasn't on the list. Going back, I agree, it's completely technology based.
They have to. Yes, everybody knows the whole thing how it works.
Loves this one.
Also, let's guys, the Matrix. We could have a whole episode on the conversations around the Matrix, but this episode is already like an hour and half long, so I'm saying it's a fucking side. Oh yeah, yeah, let's just be okay, a.
Limited a video game.
Okay.
So here are are finished lists, starting with Carmen Carmen, who is the only person who got every movie through the fifth elment nineteen ninety seven, Ghosts in the Shelf from nineteen ninety five, Ganica from nineteen ninety seven, Companion from Just This Summer, Blade Runner from nineteen eighty two, a Boo Children of Men crossed off, replaced with Blade Runner twenty forty nine, followed by Her, followed by The I Mean the Classic District nine, followed by Arrival, followed
by Pacific Rim which just sneaks through the portal at the bottom of the scene. There we go to my films, Edge of Tomorrow, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which got through on the Jurassic part corollary Strange Days from nineteen ninety five, Aniara from twenty eighteen, An Enemy Mine from nineteen eighty five. We Go to Rosie Akira knocked off, much to Rosie's complete shock and replaced with the legendary alien,
followed by Starship Troopers, followed by a RoboCop. It's a double Verhoven, followed by Jurassic Park, High Life and the underrated Inner Space, which replaces the shock knockoff Cura knocked off four to one, followed by the double Verhoven, Starship Troopers and RoboCop, and followed by a Jurassic Park which
created the Jurassic Park corollary. As long as the science essential to the creation of everything else that follows, it only has to be in the first ten minutes of the movie, and then in High Life, and then finally Joelle The Day the Earth Stood Still from nineteen fifty one, pineer and classic in the genre, The Fly from nineteen eighty six. Jeff Goldbloom is hot and shirtless. The Matrix replaces everything everywhere all it.
Was a shock knockoff Scandal.
Of the Iron Giant for nineteen ninety nine, which I contend should not be There, but it's there and Alien in nineteen seventy nine. Wow, those are our films.
What is the audience think?
We get at us through Instagram, through the Blue Sky, through the Discord, go to the discord, through the YouTube comments. Tell us what you think should be in there? What are your definitions of sci fi? And that's it for this episode. This has been really fun. Thanks for hanging
with us. On the next episode of Extra Vision, we're continuing our summer movie coverage with another popcorn pop out and we'll give you our immediate reaction to the live action How to Train Your Dragon and discuss live action remakes are they worth it or not? Hi, Carmen, Aboo, Joelle, thank you so much for joining us.
So great. That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Bye x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Our producers are Common Laurent, Dean Jonathan and Bai Wag.
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