Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for The Acolyte, the entire season, Revenge of the Sith, other Star Wars titles. Just listen watch the Applyte Funt finale before you listen to this. Hello, my name is Jaysconcepcion and I'm creeping around the corner like out to the.
Plate, and I'm Rosie Night and I'm stroking crime his thumb on his light.
Save us softly as the sun sets.
And welcome back to ext Revision of the podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. Coming here from my Heart Podcasts, where we're bringing you two episodes a week, every Tuesday and Thursday.
Who In today's episode in the Airlock, we're gonna speed recap the finale of the Acolyte.
Then we're gonna bring.
In the harm We're bringing in the Jedi Council. We're bringing in the X Ray Vision crew.
Everyone needs that.
You can't make it because it's eight hundred and sixty, but the everyone, the rest of the.
Ebo, Aaron, Everyone's coming in to talk about this show. We're also going to be ranking our favorite live action Star Wars series. You were doing it in the discord, So we're going to do it here and in all what if section, we're gonna say, what's the best version of the Acolyte in your mind?
How would you have made.
This the perfect show that lived up to the highs that we got in certain episodes.
But first, we're gonna speed recap it.
We're stepping out of the air lock now to speed recap the finale of The Acolyte.
Thankfully.
We begin as May fights our way out of ever creepier Soul's grasp, and the pair kind of battle their way back to Brendock.
They fly through an epic asteroid belt.
I was feeling a lot of money in this moment, a lot of money in this episode. I was happy to see that helped May even though she'd mind wiped him. Is it the same, Pip? I'm not sure, but you know what, she helped him. He helped her when he needed it.
And Saul, I'm pretty sure he was gonna shoot May out.
Of the sky because he has truly lost it, but luckily Basil sabotaged his ship.
I'm not a huge Basil fan.
I feel like he's a bit of a you know, a bit of a snitch, but in this case.
He was right.
Here's my issue with Basil. He needs to fucking stand on it. I'm saying, whatever you're doing, whatever you're doing, Basil, do it, and then don't fucking run away.
Exactly, stand there.
And take the consequences.
If you're I'm saying, like, if he was just there, stop.
Stop doing shit and then scurrying.
Literally, he's always right because he.
Was there when Soul, an adult man, stunned May and like tied her to a table, and then he was just like e and like ra, you know, and here he does, I'm guessing, want to stop Soul from killing May, which is good, but then also I see him later back on his snitch behavior. So anyway, Soul lands on Brenda turns on his transponder, and we go to a cozy cave where a pair of young would be lovers are learning the Force. Osha is in Kaima's helmet. Kaimer tries to get her out of the helmet because she
seems to be having struggle breathing. Then he gets sucked into like a weird dark side world.
Jason, what did you think, Bob? I think, what's happening in this moment.
I wasn't sure to be honest with you, but it felt like, well, there must be some other force, for lack of a better word, behind what we're seeing right now, and indeed there was.
Indeed there was, because as Osha and Kaimer discover that you know where May is and that she's gonna go and find May because she wants to stop May, because she had a vision of the future where May's gonna kill Soul and she's holding the lightsaber and she's gonna kill it without a weapon. And Kim is like, well, I would like to see that, because that's been my whole mission for the whole show.
I really, I really got to see it.
I want to be He's like, that's important to me.
So they decide they're gonna leave, and because they both obviously have massive crashes on each other, they don't just like kill, they don't get into a fight.
They're just like, let's go together.
Even though I want to save my sister and you want to like turn her to the dark side, Let's just go on a nice trip together.
And as they leave the island, we see.
A mysteriousness Faratu esque figure, his little creepy hands sliding out the door, his little face in a little hood.
Just coming out the creepy cave. Who could that be? It's it's yeah, they have Earth.
They have yet to confirm it, but it is quite clearly the mun alien dark plagist who in legends and kind of implied in canon.
Was the teacher and master of Palpatine.
And also it seems like is a significant peeping tom in the neighborhood.
Like what a weirdness, especially because.
Like oh Shan kaim are having a lot of chemistry, this man is likely keeep it.
He's like, let me get involved.
So why isn't I feel like maybe he's weakened my theory because if look, we all know about the rule of two, so this is kind of not fitting along with that. So maybe Kaimuth thought he'd killed him, and he's like recovering, because why wouldn't.
You just go out there and like follow them.
Yeah, that's a good Maybe he's recovering. Yeah, he's recovering.
We then go to Chorissant, which, by the way, like probably should have been her earlier in the season.
I feel like, more more.
Often, more often, there should have been more This is one of the best scenes in the episode. We get British acting legend David Harewood. He is confronting Venestra and he's like, bro, the.
Jedi, they got problems. This is actually one of my favorite lines in the whole series though.
He's like, you guys are always acting like you've got power over the uncontrollable and she's like, we don't try and control the force. And he's like, no, your emotions and I'm like, whoa, if people had been listening to this, senator, the Jedi probably wouldn't have got into so much trouble. And he's like, we need to audit the you lot of causing problems. I'm hearing there's like a murder investigation. It's going bad.
He's not wrong.
I feel like, really he's saying everything that a lot of us have been saying.
I mean, this is what we've been talking about. Yeah, we've been talking about this for a while and all series.
Yeah, Like he's doing great jobs.
Then you know, everybody makes it to Brendoc and there are some extremely great fight sequences. We get some Jedi slow.
Mom amazing, we get amazing Usia.
We get some really cool lightsaber action with Sol and Klimer. Then we get some really cool hand to hand force fighting with May and Osha in one of the coolest fight scenes in the season, kind of really building on what we saw with Ezra in a Soca in this kind of new hand to hand force fighting style. But May and Osha they just can't get their shit together. Osha has been too brainwashed by Saul. May just wants her to believe the truth that Soul killed mother Anna Sayer,
which we know because we watched a flashback episode. And ultimately she tricks Saul into telling into confessing in front of Osha that he did it. And then, oh baby. Osha is so angry. She likes her anger confuse her. All the anger she was never able to get out. That's the reason she had to quit the Jedi. Apparently she was too angry. And she says the Soul stop speaking, and as she does, she's choking him.
Is it Is it the origin of the force choke?
I would say probably not, because the Sith were around like two thousand years before this, but it is the first time we've seen it in this era.
She begins to choke him and as she does so, and this.
Was I thought very cool, especially as someone who loves
Kaiber Crystal law. She picks up Soul's old lightsaber and it is the Crystal's already cracked the Kaiber crystal, and we see for the first time on screen how a Scith or a would be sith with what we call bully a lightsaber, which is where their anger and their fury and their hate corrupts it and changes it from the light side color of blue or yellow or whatever in this case blue to red, and we kind of see the battle on the blade between the blue and
the red, but ultimately the red winds and Osha kills saul In in quite a bleat fashion.
At the beginning of this he's like, yeah, go ahead, do it. I've had enough eye suck.
But in the beginning of the episode there was actually like a warning that says something like intense violence or extreme violence, and we were in the discord and we were really wondering what that would be, and we post the end of the episode. I do think it was this scene because for Disney Bluff, it is kind of gruesome because you see this man get choked to death.
Then the Jedi come.
In and so Osha and May and Kaimera are like, oh what do we do? Like can't see the Jedi, you know, even though as in pre production Jason made a great point, the Jedi are eager to cover this up.
Guys.
They can't wait for this case thing over. They tried to cover it up years ago. They don't want to be looking into it now they it's done, There will be no one investigating this.
Ever, wha it comes next is probably not necessary, but maybe is narratively necessary to set up the show and keep it in the timelines. But May and Osha and Kaimer have a deep conversation, and Osha and May decide the only thing they can do is wipe May's memory so that the Jedi won't remember. You know what, I think I was saying this to Joel, but I think what actually the reason they had to do this is because narratively, at this time, the Jedi am not supposed
to know this if exists. So I think they had to wipe the memory of anyone who could be a witness in this case May because she was going to be found back into.
The Jedi fold.
So I think that was more of a timeline issue because narratively, I feel like you guys could have just run away.
We know that they just run away the dark side.
You're looking burning corps like there's no one looking anymore. It's done.
You guys could have just gone and lived in your happy, little weird sister.
So they wipe the mind.
It's very sad, and the Jedi come klime it and Osha head off. May gets picked up by Vanestra. Phil like they didn't think that through. I feel like they could have dropped her off somewhere else in the outer rim or something.
Gets picked up by Vnestra doesn't remember her sister. We see that.
Venestra just solidly throws Soul under the bus, goes to the Jedi Council.
She's like, bro, this guy was crazy. He did some dodgy shit a long time ago, and.
Then he went and he killed his fellow Jedi.
You believe it.
I feel like that a deep, deep mistake in this plan, because surely you want to like let them know that there's some kind of issue. But anyway, David Hayward is like, bro, we gotta do the Jedi audit now. This is the kind of shenanigans they're getting up to. Jedis are going on murders. Wh It's not going well. We then see o Shirt and Kaimer and they're looking out very AO three moment here. I know Leslie is a fanfit girlie
for sure. They're looking out at the sunset. Ohsh's holding her newly red corrupted sift lightsaber, and Kimer puts his hand over hers and does a little thumb touch, touches the thumb.
On the thumb. Oh baby, I was screaming, I'm not gonna lie. They got me with that one.
Then, just in case you weren't sure that Vanestra did not have a very good instincts, after lying to the Jedi Council, she calls somebody up. Sounds like she's talking to maybe Senator Intern Palpatine. I'm not sure, but that is a worthwhile mention that it could be a young Palpi.
And then she goes to see Yoda, who, by the way, is already like eight hundred years old. At this point. My man is get tired. We see the back of his head. She's like, we need to talk.
My reading of that is there is some kind of higher Jedi council than the Jedi Council, some kind of sea group that is trying to see if the dark side rises.
But honestly, spoiler a lot, guys, it's it's not gonna work. We've said, we've seen what happens.
Honestly, at this point, I think it's just Vnestra and Yoda being like, you know, Vnestra going to Yoda to be like, hey.
We fucked up again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, She's like I basically the ability.
Just so you know, I fucked up again. I had to burn several corpses and pin the whole thing on Saul, that thing you know, wink wink that we talked about a while back, And uh, I don't know what's going on.
With the Oh and by the way, now May the twin sister, the twin Force child who all this was about, is now in my custody. She has no memory of her sister, and I'm gonna use her to find my former student.
Dun't dunt dua kimer.
We all called it.
He had that whip.
Yeah, he had that big whip shape on his back. We know that Vnestra has the whip saber. There's clearly something there with them. Was it a Kylo ren esque situation where she saw the dark side in him, or was the dark side what drew her to him, because in the books, Vnestra's whip is seen as kind of dark side leaning. Vnestra's ability to sense the Force memories that's seen as something that's a little bit beyond the light side.
So maybe there's something interesting there. I don't know.
We'll have to find out in season two. But before we guess what might happen in season two, we have to bring in the Jedi Council.
Please welcome to the Council Chamber, super Producer's era in Aboo and Joel Folks, let's go around the table. Joel will start with you your thoughts on this season of The Acolyte.
Wow.
Okay, So, first of all, for fans who don't know, I have a Soilca' light sabers tattooed on me. So I'm like Star Wars fanatic. I am obsessed with this universe. I refuse to leave if they could give me six more bad shows and I'm not going anywhere. Sorry, Disney, cover your ears. You didn't hear any of that, but it's my truth. And I'm so frustrated with this series because it gave me so many things I wanted.
Did I get more witches? I sure did? Were they cool as? Absolutely they were? I got an.
Enemy's to lovers romance, great one that works. Sorry, I'm not a ray Loo Stan. Though I respect everyone's fandom choices. This one is working for me and I really enjoy it. I got black women in Star Wars. Every time they show up as just delightful. We've gotten more recently. I'll take more in the future, please, And I really enjoyed. Like I thought, the fight Sequich was really exciting.
I love the idea.
They're so good, and I love the idea of even you know, corrupt or misguided Jedi.
And here's where I start.
To have my frustrations. When it started, I thought we were getting like a Cops and Robbers sort of situation, a Noir thriller, if you will, a big mystery over what happened. And I thought we were really gonna explore like the dark side that lives within the Jedi. Instead, what we got was a confused individual's poor decisions, which could be interesting if you have a deeper connection with the individual.
I love Soul as a character.
When he's first introduced, like Oh my gosh, here's a Jedi that's actually embodying this like monk like philosophy and ideology, and we're gonna see like how like where did this turn happen for him?
And why?
And we even get the speech in the finale of like listen, he was a good guy who made bad choices. But I didn't get to see enough of him being a quote good guy or enough of him being a quote bad guy to justify this dichotomy of symbolism within him, like I just I need who Whistle as a teach, like we needed more soul teaching Jackie. We got little kernels of it and they were okay, but right enough. We don't know anything about May and that will kill me.
Until I don't, I can't understand the show's reasoning. To me, the show sets up very early on that it is vital for us to understand why this coven split a person into two parts and what that means to these two individuals walking around. To me, we've seen what happens when you split a person in popcul like I think maybe the most recent and popular would be on Rick
and Morty. Right, Rick and Morty go into their little machine they excise the negative aspects of themselves and they spit out the good sides, and you get to see, like, if your negative side is just this and your positive side just this, how would you live?
And what does that mean to you?
And what do you miss about the and what do people you love miss about these other parts? But we don't have any understanding of what it means for these two individuals to be separated. I never got to be the sisters who love each other. They have a word phrase that they use, but I don't think Osha has any loving connections or memories to that phrase other than we said it a lot as a kid, and I don't know what it means, and therefore everything around that
very important plot line has no value to me. And then at the end they sort of disrupt it by sending May off by herself in a massively confusing decision. Why can't she stay with them? She has the same agendas I thought, but they're like, no, you have to go, and she's like, it's totally fine, wipe my memory. I would have six thousand questions, what memories are you raising?
The dark side lets people hide?
Yes, we all know that they could have used their dock side palace to hide from the gem.
We could have had MESSI love triangle, Like, there are just so many things we could have had here of like who is but again, who has made of Osha?
What is?
I just there's so many questions, And I really feel like everything that worked was working on such a high frequency that it is crazy to me that everything that didn't work tank to the show this bad. I demand a season two. I demand that Doesney get together and just like be like, maybe just leave the writers alone, because the writing team is spectacular. They've all produced really quality work before. I just I don't know what happened
that this is what we ended up with. But I remain maybe stupidly hopeful that we can get it in line for another season, because again, I just there.
Was so much to enjoy.
Jason, you talked you've done some when we've been talking about this in pre pro. You've talked a lot about the pacing, and I think you really did hit on something there, So could you talk a little bit about that.
It just feels to me like the main problem for me, and I agree with basically everything that Joelle said, which is the highs, the things that work work amazingly well. It felt to me as if either the budget got slashed in the middle, or some other kind of production hiccup happened and they ended up having to stretch, you know,
four episodes of content into eight episodes of TV. And it feels as if every time you're starting to get some momentum off a really cool reveal or a wonderful character moment, it's then sabotaged by this really bizarre pacing. And here's the primary example. Why are we getting the conflict between Venestra and the Senate in the final episode? Why am I meeting a new character in the final episode? Why am I just yeah, Why am I just meeting
Senator Raincourt? Like he should be there from episode one so you understand the pressure of the Jedi under It's absolutely insane to just meet him in the final twenty minutes of the entire season. That's crazy. And there's a lot of things like that, Like I would have the Bottle episode flashback, make that episode one, and then turn this whole thing. It's basically a bad cop story about a case that went bad that a bunch of dirty
cops have been trying to suppress. All this time, So give that to us up front, and then you know, make it a true noir in which these dirty cops are trying everything they can do to either solve this problem or suppress the news about this and everything they try gets worse. That's kind of fun and a more streamlined thing. And like so many characters that popped Jacky we loved did we not love yours?
Ord?
Who is like you had such a straight buy the book guy and annoying, but at the same time really great TV and great story fodder. The fact that we lose them where we lose them.
Is is weird to me.
It feels more like a penal choice.
Yeah, like that should be later. We shouldn't be meeting new characters. Like the confrontation between Veinestra and Center Graincourt felt like something that was originally at the beginning of the season that they then moved to the end for whatever reason. And Venestra should have been much more central to the story, should have been in it more so all of that stuff worked, it just felt like it was all like in the wrong order.
You know what I mean.
And it and it creates this feeling of the ship never landed, like there's no meet, no satisfaction to any reveal. The mystery quote unquote of the of the story dribbles out at such a strange pace that you keep being like, well is that it?
Okay?
Well?
Now is that it?
And there's never that moment where you're like, oh my gosh, and I think what's so disappointed about it? For me personally, is like so many things worked so like the highs are so high, the promise is there. You could see how good it almost was, and it's like, what is it? I used the line that Rosie then asked me, which is it? It felt like, you know, ultimately, I I think that Book of Boba Fet, which is a show that I'm eventually going to rank when we do our rankings,
like towards the bottom of the live action list. The peaks of Acolyte were higher than the peaks of Book of Boafet. But Book of Boba Fet I quickly was like, Okay, this is what this is. This is like a summer fling and I'm going to enjoy this, whereas the Acolyte I wanted to fall in love with the Akolite with what I was seeing, with the promise of it, and I just never got there, So ultimately I'm disappointed, but I like Joelle And again, Disney, I hope you're not listening. I'll be back.
I'll be back.
Aaron, you had some really good thoughts on like kind of what Jason was saying about how Vun could have played like a bigger part, So like, what were your thoughts on the finale and the season as a whole.
Yeah, so I thought it would have been as much as I loved Jord, and Jord was a very interesting character, and obviously we have a contractual require to feature that haircut in any Star.
Wars propty that comes up.
I think Vern could have played that role, been on the ship, been the rule follower, the one who's really focused on making sure everything's done by the book quote unquote, And we didn't necessarily need Ord. Jord and Jeckie, two great characters, are removed at the end of episode four, and then it's just like we spent all this time and build up with them. We had the potential romance with Jeckie and like and that.
Didn't matter anymore.
Also, kind of echoing Joel, Joel, anytime there are black women in Star Wars, that's huged for you anytime. For me as someone who's Chinese anytime they're Asians love it. So I am a huge fan of a lot of moments of this and Joelle really thoughtful reactions. A boob will have some great ones as well. I'm going to do a very different reaction that may be a little more tailored to Jason. This show, the first half reminded me a lot of like La Clippers. You have these
huge moments this season. It's such high highs and I was so excited for what could happen, and then it just fell apart.
I still love the end. I still love this episode.
And like I am someone who my consumption of Star Wars content is pretty much the main big and pole properties unless it's something that involves Throng, in which case I will.
Have all of it.
But there was a lot of this where I was just like, oh, this is.
Really cool, Like I know there's something about uh, you know, it's the Star Wars, like the lights they were bleeding and it's cool to finally see it. And like there's a lot of moments like that that I just was all on board for. Yeah, so I was I probably liked it more than most people. And I thought this episode was a lot of fun. Obviously, there are so many things that could have been done better. And like every time we saw Kime here he was the everyone
fell in love with him. In episode four when the turn happens and then he got benched, he was like, he didn't come back in that way, and it was I waited for four more weeks just to get today's episode, and then I was like, oh my god, I love him, give me him fighting everyone.
I just want a TV show of him. So that's that's those are my main points.
I think.
Aboo, what was your vibe? What's your read on the Acolyte?
I mean I echo a lot of what this council has already said. I think we generally generally feel the same way. But I'll try I'll try to add some add some thoughts that haven't been brought up yet. First of all, I totally agree we get some high highs. This show is toying with and playing with some ideas that feels so fresh and so unique in the Star Wars universe. Who has power, who's allowed to wield it?
Amazing thought. I wish we'd gone deeper on that. Yeah, I honestly in this finale episode had goosebumps watching the lightsaber color change as we saw the bleeding of the crystal, which I think is the first time we're seeing that in live action.
It happened in the video game with Calkestis.
But yeah, but this is the first time we've seen it, first.
Time in live action.
Incredible stuff and again manages into my goodness, like time here his reveal managed us into was easily a highlight of the show, and to Aaron's point, gets benched for multiple episodes and is really only around to Flex's biceps and we both us and Osha and maybe.
Which is more than enough.
In every property, it reminds me of just briefly, it reminds me of I don't know how many people are watching Love Island, but he reminds me of Rock.
I've seen every season of Love Island. Yeah, yeah, about that.
The thing that didn't work for me is that most of this season hinged on the events of Brendoc, which we saw in episode seven. But I was not sold on the events of brent Dock. It was like a series of unfortunate events that happened and nobody was necessary Early at fault, like I didn't think Saul was that bad a guy if some woman turned into a ghost next to me, and maybe I'm also going to defend myself,
like what's happening, You're turning into a ghost. Torbin also is just like a homesick kid who like overstepped and also got his mind messed with, Like nobody really did anything that bad, So like, are we really toying with any like deep ideas about Jedi good, Jedi bad Jedi dogma stage.
And that could have worked even like it could have been really amazing to see so many people in misunderstanding conflict, right, Like that's really intriguing. And I mean, if we're just talking real well, like that's a thing that the police were, like we didn't know we had bad information, someone sent us the wrong address, killed somebody. It's awful and that
can be like dramatically compelling. But again, without spending enough time with these characters and understanding confidently who was experience what and then also experiencing what point of view we're seeing these events from, if it just became really muddled by the end.
I think that Jason struck on specifically without changing too much about what happened.
I think about so many great crime movies.
I've seen so many thrillers, so many slasher movies even right they often begin with a simple human error or something that goes too far a situation you lose control of. You see it at the beginning, you understand what happened, and then you see the impact of covering that up throughout.
I think that if in Jason's vision of it being the first episode and kind of that almost that Colombo cold open where you get to see what happened, I think that would have been really impactful because you kind of get that human error aspect, which I found very tragic the way they portrayed it, and then you don't
sell it on the mystery. I think that's the problem because by the time you got to episode seven in our discord, in the June Pod Discord Escape Discord, everyone's like, it has to be episode seven.
What happens on episode seven? What like, what's gonna happen?
And then you get to the point where it's not necessarily the clear cut, black and white bad or good thing, but also it's not as complex and deep as we may have been hoping for. So I think that that the pacing and the positioning again is probably why that didn't necessarily hit in the same way.
Like Rosie, your point there just made me realize the more interesting story here to tell I think, Joel, you're getting at this too, is the cover up, not actually the events that happened. But this season is acting like the events are the main story. Like the more interesting is like for Nestra politicking and hiding things, Soul and Torbin and all of them living with the guilt and covering it up, and like that's the more interesting story.
But that took a back seat to Brenda.
It felt as if and again I don't know, the creative team behind this is incredible, that extremely talent, and I don't want to sound like I'm coming off telling them how to do their job. And it feels like to me, having you know, been around productions and you know, talk knowing a lot of writers and producers, it feels to me like something happened from above, either a budget thing or making the question about power and the corrupting
nature of power. Attacking that question centrally through the lens of the Jedi felt like a little bit too much. I could see the note being are we throwing the Jedis under the bus too much? And so it felt as if, to Joelle's point, like they were trying to serve too many things at once and make, you know, a good guys versus bad guys story, but also like a great Jedi story, but also like a corruption story,
but also like a justice and guilt story. And I think ultimately this show needed to pick like two lane, yeah, a lane, rather than try and serve like three lanes. And that goes for too many characters, too many plots, too many themes, and because I like all the things that are there, Yeah, but I'm disappointed that we didn't have time to go deeper into those things, right, whether it's character, plot, whatever.
Yeah, I feel like they didn't, like you've a lot of you have mentioned putting the flashback as the first episode, and I wonder if there was some direction of we can't set up the Jedi as the bad guy right
off the bat, like we would not surprise me. Yeah, yeah, And so I think that's probably why we get four episodes of we like the Jedi, there is some someone killing Jedi, and we get these characters we like, like Jord and Jeckie and then it has to be oh, never mind, actually we get rid of the ones you love.
Yeah, and it'sally supposed to be a Sith based story and disease, Like, we're not doing a Sith main character story to jump off.
I think Leslie like snuck that in there really well because Osha is the main character and Osha becomes a Sith. But it also, like Leslie definitely in those you know, D twenty three, those kind of big moments, was definitely talking about it being a seduction story, a Sith story.
I also something me and Joel thought about like throughout this season is like, I feel like the pacing issues could definitely have come from this being a way less linear and like stranger narrative, kind of like Russian doll or a little bit more akin to other stuff Leslie had done. And then when you kind of chop that up and try and make it more of a straightforward narrative,
I wonder if it loses some of the juice. And again, like that's not me pretending I know anything about how the behind the scenes went, but it does feel like it's possible.
Yeah, totally, I think that, you know, on a certain level, I think that I empathize with the struggle that the people who make hype have. You know, on the one hand, like stories have to evolve, that's the nature of stories. At the same time, like you know, it's complicated because the audience wants the same thing, but they want it in a different way. And asking yourself, well, are we selling out our audience who has grown up with a certain picture of the Jedi in their minds, who love
the Jedi? Are we selling them out too much to evolve the story in a way that is reasonable and actually natural. And I and I completely empathize with that. I just think that this is it feels as if those tensions are reflected too much.
In Yes, I will also say as well, even with the version that we got, a lot of people felt like they went too hard on the Jedi. There was a lot of people who still felt like it was a it was an actively I'm going.
To defend them.
I'm going to defend the Jedi.
I want to defend them such in a small way, it's a big galaxy. There's a lot of jethentic sol and I think we need to get away from both in the macro sense. With Star Wars, when a badge. When a show happens, it disappoints I don't want to call it bad, but it disappoints us. We should we should, uh, you know, steer away from these knee jerk reactions where like Star Star Wars is bad now because this one
show happened. And I also think that because of the Jedi is such a huge organization, we should also steer away from being like, well, the Jedi are bad because Soul is a fucking nut job to get hold of them.
But I think you're like, the crux of the issue is Star Wars right now is like trying to please fans.
I think is the problem.
Right.
I'm not saying in essentily you have a responsibility to your fans. We're the ones coming back. We spend money, We've invested years of our lives into this content. I understand that there's a level of respect that's necessary. But in the same way, like, man, I I'm sorry that Star Wars has to deal with and or that's all.
It's like, it's very.
Fun, but it's there and we can't help. We're humans.
We have to compare and contrast, and I think that it's it's frustrating to me that if you can have something as pushing the boundaries as and or as as outside of the stereotypical Star Wars boxes and or that there should still be fear within the company of being like, well, we're not sure if we can do that, or we have so much. They didn't like it when you were safe and you gave them everything. They don't like it when it's completely different. They didn't always going to be nasayers.
I wish they would just focus on telling a good story. Just tell me a good story period.
Before we get the council to rank their favorite live action Star Wars stories. I just want to say, as the general contrarian, I am more aligned with Aaron and I actually thought this episode was quite good.
And I just want to say that I am grateful to Leslie for the enemies to love a storyline. I screamed the thumbtauch and really, I like, it's like.
Just doing stuff, so I'm a sucker. Really like, if they just want to do like kimeron May that Kimer and Osha they're just trying to be dark side, I'll be like, Okay, I'm in here for it.
Also, while we're talking about moments, that like we screamed in I had so much fun in the lightsaber fight with Soul and Kaimer when he detaches and has the Perry dagger and he throws them and then Soul puts his saber away and force.
Pushes them all. Amazing, amazing.
Job.
Yes the joke.
Yeah, I made the catching Tiger hitting Dragon Sorrows crossovers one hundred.
Can I ask one question before we before we go to our rankings? Do you think that this story is improved with some sort of flashback or exposition about Saul's motivations, Like why does Saul yes gravitate to May and Osha so strongly?
What is it like?
I feel like if there would have been something about him, we.
Just need to know what Saul was like as a padawan.
We get a tease of it in episode one where they're like She's like, oh, this is what you were like as a padawan, and right, yeah, but never who were you as a padawan? Who trained you? And why do you feel this deep need to like pass on your knowledge or to work with someone in this mass?
Like what does it mean? I have no idea what it means.
The Soul and it made his death, Like I don't want to say meaningless, but I was just like, I don't I'm understanding.
It felt like I didn't. It felt like I never understood.
I think that.
Yeah, A simple like five minute scene that just like is Soul and Venestra in the era of the Brendoc indcident drinking like tea or something in a canteena talking about Saul's issues with like being obsessed. Why is he obsessed with passing on his knowledge? Why does he want a padawan so much? We could have learned a lot
about both of them. I think there's some kind of flashback between the two that could have built them out a little bit more and built out that relationship a little bit more that I think would have made a
big difference. Also, something I want to pose to you guys, and you can just do like a yes or no. But something in the discord that I thought was interesting was people were definitely like wondering, especially people who hadn't been big fans of the show and then had kind of come to it by the time the finale ended.
Will it be better if you just watch it in one go?
Like is part of what it was unsatisfying about the show, the way that they cut up the story because the episodes are thirty five minutes or forty eight minutes. So I'm interested, like, will you go back and binge watch it and see how it looks.
I think I would have a higher Rotten Tomatoes score if during a binge as opposed to a weekly watch. But I don't think it would have resolved the many.
Issues I have with the show.
Yeah, yep, exactly, Yeah, yeah, I just want to complain about one thing. I'm sorry to be negative, but like the mind wiping thing.
It's so.
Unnecessary, the lie. The Cimers line, Well, if I could find you, the Jedi can find Yeah, but you followed, you literally followed a person.
Not just that, but you have a selection as a master and apprentice with both of these Wales.
So like and and second Darrel and the Jed, I still find as we said, the Jedi don't want to look.
They're done. They're done with this case.
It's over, has covered up multiple crimes and murders, is burning, is actively burning by in the.
World existed, Like you can just sho, you could just go.
They're not looking anymore.
She's lied to the Senate. It's done.
They're not looking for you.
Okay, Joel, what's you to a live action ranking?
Okay, very bottom. I'm sorry, but it's get it out of here. I don't I didn't need it. I did't get anything from it.
Uh.
Then I'm sorry because we got the Anakin we always deserved, but Obi wan Kenobi again, a lot of things I didn't need. Even though we got a cool blacksmith lady. She had to deal with a lot of trauma for a show that I'm never going to rewatch. So uh, then season three of The Mandalorian, I'm separating them because the Mandalorian.
I don't.
Done that together.
So then then I would.
Put a Soca.
Then I would put a Soca for episode five alone, which was it was psiconic.
I love Soka. Then I would do this show then then Acolyte, then the rest of of Uh. The Mandalorian thinks all of that.
And Or would be a number one again and Or it does not.
We don't even talk about it. Number one. It is it is the best. It is the best one. So that's my ranking.
Yeah, I would agree mine is. And Or then you're going I'm doing top down, I'm doing reverse and Or.
Is number one.
Mandalorian on average is number two. I would say Acolyte for me is number three because I do think that the highs of it are high enough to it's reasonable to go over to average out over my next one, which would be ah Sosoka.
Hilariously, I will say after the top two, I.
Do think this is very equal. Like I don't think there's a lot of difference apart from Mandalorian. I think once you average them out, because like I actually you know, Ahsoka, I loved seeing Ezra, I love seeing Sabine Tho's had some really big highs. Then Obi w again lots of moments. I really loved Boba FETs going at the bottom, but not because of not because subjectively I enjoyed it the least. It's because objectively I don't think it's as good as
some of the other ones. But as somebody who grew up and like serialized storytelling, I still think Boba Fet is actually like a fun weekend Saturday morning show, but it's not like this Prestige TV event. So that would be mine, Jason watsh.
Your's I Am Gonna Go, and or number one of course, Mando number two, and then you drop off a click exactly the Star Wars live Action. It's the conversation is really about what an immense drop off from the first two there are so okay, and or Book of Boba. I mean, sorry, Uhorian, Then oh gosh, I'm gonna go Ahsoka, the Acolyte Obi Wan Kenobi Book of Ba.
If we were including animated series, this would be a very different listing.
I can't say that, but but we're.
Doing live action because we have a limited time and we're all yappers aboo.
All right, I'll be quick. I'll start from the bottom. Boba weird to have a TV show I had to watch.
To understand another TV show. It's like a halfway Mandalorian Seas.
Then, honestly, for me, Ahsoka next, this might get me kicked off the Council that I've never watched Rebels, so none of that made sense to me. I watched the Ahsoka so confused. So then it's Acolyte squarely in the middle for me.
Highs were high, lows are low.
I'm gonna put Obi Wan up there just because I loved having Anakin back.
That was a great for that.
And then Mando seasons one through three love those and then yeah, then there's like a country mile climb before you get to end, or like I watched the stellin Scars Guard speech sometimes just to feel something again.
Yeah yeah, will they ever like stop wishing they didn't let Tony Gilory make that show.
I feel like every day that in those exact offices, like what do we do then? But it's like making like mad Men and.
Just being like here you go, now make like five other seasons that as opposed to be like this.
Aaron. The final member of the Jedi Council.
Obi Wan and Boba Fet tied at the bottom. Okay, that's a tear for me.
It doesn't it doesn't really matter.
I have ah Soka slightly higher than Accolyte because as opposed to a boo like I have a strong emotional connection to the Ahsoka story.
Love her.
I love seeing all those frankly super hot characters like in live action incredible everyone in that show. I wanted more stories, Aaron said.
I now I can be attracted to someone who's not a cartoon character in real.
Life and new characters like I love, I loved. I think that those Sith are some of my I mean, we had we've really had great news time here is amazing. I am going to break from consensus. I will do and or a second.
I love it.
But again with emotional pick, Mandalorian season one meant so much coming out with crazy Pandemic, like everyone in the world is watching this show. Baby Yoda is like the biggest thing in the world. Like that has left more obviously and our great, great, great show objectively a better show. Emotionally, Mandalorian season one better and.
I think Disney would agree with you just from viewership numbers, They're gonna want more Manorians.
Amando season one was there were people who were not Star Wars fans, like, yes, my life, I was working at the Ringer at that time. There were you know, some of the people that were working there were not Star Wars fans, were like, if you get a chance to meet Baby Yoda, you have to bring me. Apple had such a strong emotional attachment to that baby. I mean, I still and that was magic.
I still wish and this is like the old Rosie with her little broadcast TV antenna. But I still think about if they had released that show weekly on ABC seven and normal people who didn't have streaming, who didn't play who don't watch Disney plass who don't follow this stuff?
That would have been like even more of a water cooler TV moment, Like as soon as it hit the way it did, they should have just started doing it at the same time, because, like you said, like my I had family members people reaching out to me like, oh my god, what's the Mandalorian?
Like it hit in a different way like I and Baby Yoda, I mean, what a legend.
And did pretty much no one knew about the leaks.
Yeah, they kept Baby Yoda secret at the cost of millions of visuals because that would have absolutely they they almost missed the boat on the Baby.
Yoga Christmas gifts that year. They made up money, but the money.
We did it.
Guys. This is the first of the X ray Vision Jedi Council, and honestly, I feel like it won't be the last. That was so fantastic.
I appreciate you coming from across the galaxy to be here to discuss this divisive yet charming series with us.
Well, it's been wonderful to talk with you all. Now is the time for plugs, Rosie.
What do you have to play?
Do have something to plug? My book Monster Island Summer Camp, a Go godzillographic novel.
If you pre order that book with Secret Headquarters in La we will put the link in the show notes. You will get a beautiful limited edition, exclusive signed book plate designed by me with art by Oliver Ono, signed by both of us, and it's really cute, and you'll be supporting a shop that me and Jason both love, that is both of our local comic shops.
So yeah, do that, thank you.
Coming next week we have bum bum Ba. Deadpool is here.
In the fast full days of dead and Verte.
We were of course still bringing you our House of the Dragon coverage, but we're adding to that with five Days of Deadpool Wow. Five episodes exploring the comics and movies of Deadpool and Wolverine, with some spattering of X Men of course thrown in their interviews lists, of course, plenty of deep dives. Stay tuned for that for this episode by x Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Boo zafar Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord. Kenny Goodman and Heidi are Discord moderator