Warning, today's episode contains some spoilers for the some spoilers for the twenty twenty five Ryan Coogler epic Sinners. Hello, my name is Jason, getupcion and on Mersday Night, and welcome back to Xtra Vision of the podcast where we dive could your favorite shows, movies, collegs of pop culture coming to you from iHeart Podcast, where we're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, plus news last news.
In today's episode, you guys have been asking for it, and honestly, we have wanted to do it because we love Sinners and we do want to talk about Sinners. But it's been of Ipmageddon, guys, it's been busy. So now we're finally diving deep into Sinnas. We'll be having a chat about the movie and what we loved about it, and you are going to be blessed with ad Jason Concepsion omnibus about some of the influencers and inspirations behind Sinners, which is gonna be really cool.
But first we need.
To introduce you guys to a new segment on X ray Vision and the new segment is called Popcorn Pop Outay, me really exciting and good Welcome to our very first episode of Popcorn Pop Out. It's a bite sized Friday special where we prep for the weekend cinematic releases, get a quick film history lesson, and hear from the stars and creators behind your next favorite movie. Twenty twenty five, I will say, is shaping up to be a landmark here for cinema after twenty twenty four.
I feel like it was a little bit down here. It was a down here with double double strikes.
It kind of yeah, we started stuff we loved, but it's more than just recognizable.
Ip.
Like, while we have our tickets for Summer classics, Jurassic World, you know I will be there, comes out the day after my birthday. Superman, Fantastic Form, Mission Impossible, How to
Train Your Dragon, Final Destination. But there's also a giant list of directors releasing pictures this year that we can't wait to watch, like bon June, Who, Steven Soderberg, Ryan cooglerre They already kicked the door open for Paul Thomas Anderson, Park Chamwork, Where's Anderson, Catherine Bigelow, Spike Lee, Paul Greengrass. I'm putting the Philip Howeer Brothers in there, because I just watched Bring Her Back and it was amazing. Jim jar Moush, Giamma del Toro close back in Oh, I
love Jim jar Moosh. Guys, you're gonna get the most annoying version of me and Jason talking about these old art house movies. Yeah, Damian Chazzelle, Darren Aronofsky, ari Asta, Benny Safti, Danny boy or Ryan Johnson, your Goss, I love your gossl Anthemos and Gareth Evans who are all
still planning to release movies this year. Basically, it's a smagas board of cinema and for our very first pop out, we are revisiting Ryan Coogler's Sinners, and we are a little interview with the creative team buying the upcoming Final Destination Bloodlines, which is very.
Very good and we can't wait. But first let's talk about Sinners.
Rosie Sinners, what an incredible cinema experience. I saw it in those seventy millimeters panavision, gorgeous and at the vista, and you know what, this is a movie that gets better the more you think about it. It's an incredible experience there. But it's there's so much richness to the film. I can't wait to see it again.
What are your thoughts?
I think what blew me about a way about the movie, and I was very lucky. I got to watch it at the Imax headquarters, which is where they edit the Imax movie, so it was a true Imax screen and I went in and I was expecting Coogler, I was expecting horror. I was expecting vampires, just because less about what they revealed in the trailers, which I do as always think it could have been cool to see this movie get that word of mouth hit of people not
knowing about that. But I already knew about this because it had been rumored for a long time that it was going to be vampires. What I didn't expect was when I sat down in the cinema and the movie began, and there was just this unbelievable, sprawling cinematography and yeah, the most some of the most stunning stuff I've seen set to film in a long time. The absolute breakout performance of Miles Katton. I just thought the whole movie was quite astonishing. And what I thought it did incredibly
well was it crafted a true four quadrant blockbuster. If you just love vampires and you love Lost Boy Rules and you want to see a vampire movie about that,
It's got you covered. If you want to see a movie that allows like adult storytelling, fucking violence but it's set in a period piece, if you want to learn about Delta, Mississippi and the history of Chinese grocery stores, Like, there are so many levels to this movie before you even get to the blues, before you even get to the fact that it's a black gangster movie with nods to capone. There is so much here to break apart that I think is just truly astonishing, and I think
it's a really astonishing piece of cinema. I absolutely adore the practical work, and I also think something that for me was really gorgeous about this film was it had violence, it had horror, it had trauma, but it also had hope and it also had It was also a story about two brothers who get to find their own versions of immortality, which I absolutely adored. I thought that it was rioteously funny at parts two, which is some of
the cool. I think the balance between the action, the humor, the music, the kind of transcendent exploration of the way that music can connect to ancestral pasts and futures. That sequence like made me cry. I also think something that Koogler did that was really interesting and kind of unheard of is he made sure the movie looked good for everyone. I saw the movie in for Imax, but I also saw the movie in a tiny screen at the Alamo draft House, eating like the Sinners themed menu.
It was just as good. It was just it was just a different experience. And I think he.
Shot it down multiple formats to allow for multiple framings. Yeah, and to have it look good for everybody, no matter whether you're an Imax, semi mil whatever.
I think is really cool.
I think it's one of those films that will be looked back on as a seminal movie.
But I also think it's a rare seminal movie.
That will also be looked back on as like a great sleepover film and a great film that will be studied at in film school, and a great film that inspire storytellers.
It walks on so many different levels.
It's what I love about cinema, which is, you know, I can kind of end up rolling my eyes when when people start having these overly artistic kind of amorphous conversations about the meaning of cinema and art and stuff. To me, cinema the movies, it's about number one, like are you entertaining people? This is an entertainment itedom And then after you're entertaining them, are they are there deeper levels to the entertainment?
You know?
And siners like.
Really has that in a way that's more profound the more you think about it. And to kind of piggyback off what you talked about, I love that this is a movie about a period of American history and a lace the Jim Crow South. That doesn't compress that story into just a story about oppression and the oppressed. It's a story about life and the variety and the richness
of the life there at that time. Yes, that that was oppression was part of the story, and the fact that the non white residents, the black residents of this area had very little security in their homes and their lives. At the same time, this is a story about people creating this space, this jupe joint where life can happen, where celebrations happened.
In spite of the oppression, and that's how people survive.
And I think that I adore that aspect of this movie.
And I also think that this sets Coogler apart as a kind of generational time. We knew that he could do that with you know, Black Panther, and we knew he could tell like intimate inspired by true life stories with The Fruit Real Station, which is like obviously an unbelievable movie, but also like he gets to have fun here and he gets to put together all of his creative collaborators and craft something that is incredibly specific. But again, I think this happened with Squid Game. I think this
happened with everything everywhere all at once. If you make something that is really specific and authentic and true to the story you want to tell, there is a universality in that that will appeal to people, and people will go, well, I I connect to this part, and I connect to this part. And even just like I think having like a fat woman and obviously in this case it's win Me Massako incredible, you know, fat black woman in a space where she is like loved and lusted after and appreciated.
And two I don't know, I just there's so many different levels. I think people are going to be talking about this movie for so long, and I do think when I came out of this movie, I said to Warner Brothers, I said to my friend who works there, I said, in a just world, this movie sweeps the Oscars. And when I said that before the movie was out, it seemed crazy to say that.
Well, I think I think there's a I think there's a lane.
I think I think it's got Elaine.
I certainly think Coogler is going to get Best Director. I certainly think he's gonna get Best Original screen Yeah, nominations. I think the cinematography is going to be in there. I think we get Ludwig Gore and Ericsson definites again in there for soundtrack and a few other things.
I think, and they who knows, like but I.
Think there's a shot. I think there's a shot for certainly nomination Best of It, definitely nominations. I definitely think Best Original Screenplay is our best shot.
Though I do feel like for a movie and a movie awards show, as Bongin who called it a local awards show that is so heavily American, so focused on American cinema, I feel like sinners should be the.
Only option when it comes to a sweep. I think we could be.
This is my far out prediction because in we are far Out, We're over, We're like, We're over.
Like it's basically like a year.
Basically, my gut says it's gonna get like ten or eleven nominations, but then we'll win like Best Original Screenplay.
But I'm hoping.
As I said when I first saw the movie and me and Joelle kind of did our brief feedback, I do think this could be this year's everything everwhere all at once.
I think it can keep playing.
Sure, it's back in the IMAX right now once Friendship is a hit come back, which it's a huge financial hit, which I think helps, but it's also a rare critical and commercial hit where a score is really high. There is a accessibility hit that means people will actually have seen the movie and be rooting for it. But there is also a quality of cinematography, of movie making, of reference that makes this something that the Academy should be exploring.
This is my this is my far out as an unlikely thing, which is in a just world Sinners sweeps, but I also think post bring Her Back Sally Hawkins following the Dememor route set from the substance. I think that Sally Hawkins for Bring Her Back should be up for Best Leading.
And I would love to see a world you know, Final Destination. Put that in there for best effects that movie and you know what, the.
David Ayer Suicide Side Squad movie, a OSCAR winning movie, some makeup. So I'm saying, put Final Destination in there for special effects. I want to see a horror centric Oscars next year. That's my that's my way out there. Like not gonna happen, but I would love to see it.
I'm gonna talk about one thing that you mentioned, which is that incredible scene when as the celebrations and the duke joint and the music starts to really crescendo.
Yeah, the Coogler brings in.
Like all the vast tributaries in the Great River that springs from Black American culture, including hip hop, including.
You get a j all these other Yeah. I love that when you see that he pitches in. He doesn't just go for the ancestral past.
He goes for like this goes into the future and the future.
And you get that kind of Bootsy Collins esque And that was when I was like I got core in my throat, like, oh, he's doing something we've never seen before.
It really made me.
You know, hopeful is the right word that you used, because I think, you know, one of the with all the terrible things that can happen in the world, and that we're happening at that time, and that maybe are happening now. I think one of the things to take away is that, you know, love doesn't this kind of hopefulness.
Love of community, love of humanity.
It never it's never able to. It doesn't have the strength in the moment to stop anything that's terrible, but it has the strength over time to continue to inspire people over the long term.
And that's what it really got.
That's what really hit me in that in the middle of that scene is like, look how people survive and not just survive, but thrive under circumstances that are oppressed.
Imagine.
Yeah, and and to be able to put that in the middle of a quote unquote genre film, it just made me feel like we just joked about how it's not good. You know, you're you saying it's going to be horror Oscars twenty twenty six. It's not going to be, no, but this is a this is a movie that absolute
like deletes the idea of genre. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that genre is like less than or or should be less than or shouldn't be thought of as something, you know, intensely profound and meaningful, with something deeper to say than just the stuff that's on the surface level text, which is, you know, if you just whatever read the logline of this movie or had somebody come out and just immediately pitch you this movie after leaving the theater, it'd be like, okay,
this kind of genre bending vampire epic set in the nineteen twenties South Like, you'd be like okay.
But there's so.
Much more to it than that. And I do hope that. I do hope, and I do think that it is going to be there in Awards season.
I do see a lot of it in a conversation because I also don't think it's going to be out of the movie fas for a long time. People want to see this in imax exhibit as, want to play it, someone like Tyn Tino could keep playing it at.
The Vista also as well.
I would say we've seen like Nope Is in continual play in LA and sevent email and meters like every few months. Everyone wants to see it that way as it was, you know, meant to be seen, And I would say Sinners and Note would.
Be a truly great double bill. But yeah, I'm very excited for the future of this movie. I love thinking about how I bet that Ryan Coogler and Michael B.
Jordan when this movie, like the lead into it, I bet they were just sitting there like absolutely knowing, like shit, we fucking like we really we really cooked at this. So I'm like, I feel like I hope that they were just like they knew that they had something that was so special.
And I really I'm so happy to see the.
Way this has got people excited to go back to movie theaters, excited to talk about movies, excited to make movies, Like there's.
Just so much Rosie.
Is there anything about remis Vampire Pitch that had you at any point thinking, you know, what if I was out in the swamp somewhere and all of a sudden we're under attacked by vampires.
But then the.
Vampire comes and makes and is playing some some jaunty music and makes me a picture about eternal life, and I come with a smile. I think about it would you know.
I don't, no, no, no, I gotta tell you. I would be like a number one sucker, like if.
A vampire, I just can't help it.
Ever since I was a little kid, I knew that if a vampire came to me, I would say, let's go.
Let's go.
I like it is funny because like I relate deeply to the kind of memes where people are like, I'm all life, I've seen enough, like I don't need them all.
Yeah, But at the same time, it's like, yeah, I do.
I do want to be a little I do want to be a little vampire. I want to just be like hanging out and like dancing. Well, then, I'm not a banjo music fan, so I don't think this particular band of vampires would have sold me on it.
But generally I'm open to vampirism. Let me ask you this.
You're a vampire, Okay, how do you feed? Are you doing like bad people? Or it's just like listen, I'm I'm a creature of nature, like a lion doesn't think about is that a good will to beast or a bad will? They're just eating? Which which philosophy do you go with?
Think that a rich.
You know, early on, I think all of us are going to try and live that kind of like we're just killing bad people, like we're just drinking that blood, like it's just bad. But I'm sure that at some point then it starts getting like really small. You like see someone litter after one hundred years and you're like that bad, Like that's you could have recycled that shit, babe,
Like it's time you're off. I definitely I don't think I could live like the the Twilight you only drink, you know, animal blood kind of kind of situation.
How about you? What are you? Are?
You?
Are you just? You're just a stone called killer?
I think, well, first of all, I I think like you that I would. I'm susceptible to the pitch. I'm not gonna say one hundred percent no, I'm not going to do it. But if I'm like you know what, I don't have the feistiness to be fighting dozens of vampires tonight, I don't think I'm gonna make it.
I like that just lazy. Yeah it sounds and it does. It doesn't sound bad.
It sounds pretty good, like there are there's definitely upsides to it. And then I think after the fact, should I take the plunge? And my only you know, obviously, like you, my only points of reference to what it would be like are every vampire movie I've ever seen, every story I've ever read about vampires, and then like you know, allowing myself to be turned into a vampire in Oblivion and Skyrim. So those are my only thing. Yeah, those are my only touchdotes. I think like you, I
would be the same. I would be like, first, bad people, I'm gonna just are going down the list, who's bad, who's bad, who's like very loudly bad, and let me see if I can stuck their blood and then and not turn them. Yes, they don't get to be turned. I think, you know, the turning is a very intimate thing, and you I want to make sure that somebody's down with it. Like really, I'd be like, listen, this is gonna be a multi stage.
PROCESSU consensual vampire where.
It's really going to talk about what because you can't there's no going back, so we're going to talk about it. And then I think, like you listen, over time, over hundreds of years, I can't. I can't promise that I that standards wouldn't slip a little bit.
We would try our best, but after a while, you're just like really hungry.
Humans are annoying. Yeah, you guys are so annoying.
But I would say, like, you know, as a vampire, you could just like you could live off billion as for a pretty long time with how many So I think that would be like start at the top kind of trickle downditors.
Were like jacking terrible billionaires.
Yeah, maybe maybe this If any vampires listening, let me and Jason No, we might have a plan.
Okay, let's go to the Omlands and we're back.
Welcome to the Omnibus, where Lauren, analysis and understanding come together. Today we're going to talk about kindred spirits, the Choctaw Irish bond in real life, and its depiction here in Sinners.
In eighteen forty seven, as Ireland was ravaged by the Great Famine, a remarkable act of compassion across the Atlantic, A group of Choctaw leaders in Oklahoma, themselves survivors of the Trail of Tears, forced March a decade prior, raised a hunt undred and seventy dollars for quote, the relief of the starving poor in Ireland, the equivalent today of
a bit more than sixty two hundred dollars. The Choctaws people their resources were not great, but they gave what they could to those who they saw as in great need. The remarkableness of the gesture was noted even at the time. Martin vent Shake, the chairman of the General Irish Relief Committee of New York City, mentioned the donation specifically in
his report back to Ireland. As Choctaw historian Judy Allen explained to the BBC quote, we had been through so much, losing so many of our people through death because of the weather, starvation, a disease that sixteen years later we heard about the famine and the horrible situation that they were going through.
We felt such empathy that we wanted to help.
The Choctaw donation during eighteen forty seven, what is known as Black forty seven, the Famin's darkest year, forged an unlikely bond between the two peoples who were separated by an ocean. The only real link between them was a common humanity, a common sense of another people's suffering, as the Choctawn nation had suffered.
Yet that was enough.
This unexpected kinship had been passed down through generations, entering Irish and Choctaw folk memory. It planted seeds of a future friendship that would be rekindled and honored many times over. Irish communities walk the Trail of Tears in a six hundred mile fund raising trek in nineteen ninety two, raising one hundred and seventy thousand dollars for famine relief in Somalia,
one thousand dollars for every dollar the Choctaw gave. In nineteen ninety five, Ireland's President Mary Robinson, the first woman President of Ireland, traveled to Oklahoma to thank the Choctaw in person, and more recently, in twenty twenty, tens of thousands of Irish donors sent over a million dollars in COVID nineteen relief to hard hit Native American reservations. The
Irish have enshrined this relationship in art. In a park in Middleton County, Cork, a stunning monument called Kindred Spirits stands as a tribute to the choctaws generosity. The sculpture consists of nine twenty foot stainless steel eagle feathers arranged in a circle, forming the shape of a giant empty bowl. Each feather is unique a sign of respect, symbolizing those used in Choctaw ceremonies. The empty bowl of feathers points
to both the famines, hunger and the nourishment given. Unveiled in twenty seventeen with Chalktaw representatives in attendants, Kindred spirits is an enduring expression of gratitude and empathy.
Quote.
These people were still recovering from their own injustice, and they helped strangers, noted one Irish official at the dedication, calling it a rare and selfless generosity that had to be acknowledged. Alex Pentech, the Irish The Irish artist Alex Pentech, the Irish artist who created a monument, said he aimed to capture quote the courage for Jilly and humanity shown by the Choctaw people. The memorial thus serves not only as a reminder of a past charity, but as a
celebration of resilience had shared hope. And it's fitting then that this legacy of mutual compassion intertwined history finds a new life in Ryan Coogler's Sinners, a modern vampire film, and it's a testament to the rich call research and history that Kugler did. One thread of the film follows an Irish immigrant named Remick played by Jack O'Connell, a vampire who is being pursued by a band of Choctaw
vampire hunters. Beneath the horror action of the film, Kugler is engaging with deep themes of hunger, of colonization, and cross cultural kinship. The film's premise was directly inspired by real history. Kugler, in researching nineteen thirties Mississippi, discovered that Chinese chalked on Irish communities all had a hand and
influence in the Delta's cultural life and music. Quote all of them appears in Sinners, he says, a deliberate choice to reflect a richer reality than one commonly used to depict the Jim Crow South. As he notes in an interview with Phillyvoice dot com, quote, it's very easy to flatten the Jim Crow South just because the signs and had colored and white on them.
You think that's all the people that were there. But that wasn't the case.
Remick, the vampire villain, embodies these themes in complex ways.
He arrives as an outsider.
From another world, an older world, one that pre existed American racial hierarchies, and as an irishman turned on dead, Remick carries the legacy of Ireland's own history of colonization and famine. He is, in fact literally famished, literally starving, a vampire driven by hunger, emerging from a nation that
new starvation. In one pivotal scene, Remic stands outside a juke joint and begins to sing the Rocky Rote to Dublin, a bouncy nineteenth century Irish folk ballad which tells the story of an irishman who leaves home for Liverpool in search of work, and once there he finds hardship, violence and solace and protection in the kinship of his fellow
Irish immigrants. It's an ironic choice. Remick is using the tune to tempt the patrons outside, offering them a chance to escape Jim Crow Mississippi by joining him in immortality.
But as doctor Rachel Stewart of Brunell University in London notes quote, the music he chooses, although catchy, is a story of exchanging one form of suffering life in tu him in Ireland during the height of English suppression, for another life on the English Mainland, where the ballad tells of victimization and violence, depicting in Sinners, Rocky wrote to Dublin is the song of a predator promising escape while
secretly leading his victims into another form of exploitation. Coogler's own love of Irish music and culture infuses this scene and others with a genuine musical verve and dynamism, he told the Filmmaker Toolkit podcast quote, I'm obsessed with Irish folk music. My kids are obsessed with it. My first name is Irish.
He continued.
I think it's not known how much crossover there is between African American culture and Irish culture, and how much that stuff is loved in our community.
See Sinners to really tap into that.
An incredible movie, unbelievable stuff, and I love Jason, you are the king of omnibuses.
That was fantastic.
Thank you.
Let's go to a message from our sponsors, and afterwards, I will be speaking to the directors of the Delightfully grow Tesque Final Destination bloodline about their inspirations the franchise and sending off horror legends.
Tony Todd, Hello, guys.
It's so great to speak to you.
Yeah, great to talk to you.
I absolutely loved the movie.
It was fantastic, and I was lucky enough to take a friend who is a lifelong Final Destination superstar and.
He absolutely loved it amazing.
I want to because I'm kind of lucky to get a little bit more time with you guys. I would love to know, like, what's your first memory of watching Final Destination?
When did that begin?
I think for me it was FD two, And you know, I think for a lot of people, the logging truck scene kind of scars you, especially if you saw it back then at an early age of sort of wow, driving on a highway could be extremely dangerous, especially for me because I grew up in Vancouver, which is where all the FT movies were shot except for number four, and so that highway that they shot that scene, and I've been down many times, and I've been on the
rollercoaster from FT three, and I've been on the bridge of FT five, and so all of those set pieces are very very real for me and my growing up in that city.
I remember the plane scene, I mean, and to this day, you know, whenever there's turbulence, I go probably because of that scene. But you know, then as filmmakers, you know, we really connected to the films even more because these films are special. There's no antagonists like in other horror movies. There's no monster in the woods, there's no guy in a mask, you know, with a knife. It's really the
filmmaking that's creating the suspense. You know, those close up shots that are all connected and that are cut in the perfect way to create the maximums of suspense is really something as filmmakers we've always relished and it was such a joy to be able to create that.
In this movie.
Yeah.
Well, I at the screening that we went to in La we did get a tease about how you guys got this movie. So I would love if for our listeners you could kind of explain what was your pitching process like and how did you put together that really unique pitch.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, your listeners may not know that directors often have to audition just like actors zoo to get these bigger jobs, and part of that process is putting images together and all your thoughts on the scenes and new ideas.
And we did all that, but one of the.
Really hard things when you're pitching is to pitch tone and Final Destination has a really unique tone. It's not just scary, it's not just fun, it's all it's all these things kind of mixed together, and so we wanted to bring that to life for them, and we had this crazy idea of basically having death come for us at the end of our pitch and for the for the executives watching, they had no idea any was going
to happen. So for them it was just as much a surprise as it would be when you're in the theater and we were pitching our the finale of what we thought the end of the movie should be, while the fireplace behind us was lighting the wall on fire, and they all started pointing and being very concerned, and we got up and quickly put the fire out and turned on this big ceiling fan, and I'm running around saying should I call nine one one?
And then then we like calmed down and they all.
Started up plouding, being like, oh, that's great, that was very They kind of realized that it was a joke.
And then right at that moment, there was sparks that came from the ceiling fan and it fell off the ceiling and I jumped out of the way, and it chopped Adham's head off and his blood went sprang everywhere, and it was quite a surprise for them, and it gave them the experience of watching Final Destination, and so that was really important because we wanted them to know that we knew how to build these types of set pieces.
What was it like, top of your head chopped on that?
You know, I know he's always trying to get rid of me.
So why was it so important for you guys to not just showcase that you understand the tone, which is important, but also you brought something else in that moment, which was, hey, we can do VFX, we can make this look real. Could you talk a little bit about kind of putting that on the screen.
You know what it was for me?
It was the joy bringing the joy in and showing them that like, not only do we get how to do this technically, but that we can bring our sort of creativity to the franchise in unexpected ways. Kind Of when you're pitching sometimes, I'm sure you know filmmakers in your audience or actors in your audience can relate to this. It can kind of feel like a slog. You know, you're trying to get these jobs. You're trying to do self tapes.
Everything's inn ip you're trying.
To you're trying to prove that you can do it and to bring our joy of filmmaking into that process and make like a little mini movie that we could entertain them with. That's I think what made it feel so special.
The most incredible thing about that I think I heard is there.
Was no one recording it right, even though most pictures are recorded, so it's never going on the Blu ray.
They've been kicking themselves because I think they you know, they hit record on some of the pitches and they just forgot to do ours or something.
I love that.
And the fact that it was a live experience, I think is what also made it feel special. That like those you know, twenty people who were on that zoom are the only people who could ever expecience exactly made it feel you know, extra special.
Well, you kind of touched on the joy. I think this is the funniest final destination.
I think it's it has some of the most brutal, scary kills, but it also has the most kind of on screen, non contextual, non tongue in cheek kind of laughs. So could you talk about kind of bringing after you know, fourteen years, like kind of bringing that new layer to the films.
I think we always wanted to create a film where you're watching it through your fingers because it's super intense, but you also have a huge smile on your face. And I think Adam and I just have an incredibly dark, twisted sense of humor, where the darker it gets, the funnier we think it gets. And I think a lot of the humor that we wanted to bring out aren't necessarily jokes. They're not necessarily one liners. They're just the emergent humor that comes out of how insane the situation is.
And we always kind of keep asking ourselves when we're working on those scenes, like.
What would it feel like to be in the situation? And what would you say? And what would you do?
And if you knew that you could only you know, live for the years of however much someone had if you killed them, well, wouldn't you try and kill the youngest person possible? And wouldn't that and wouldn't that be hilarious to put in the movie? And like, just like those types of things, it all comes from the that emerge the humor emerges out of the situation, and I think.
People especially now want to be in the theater having that experience with it in a communal way, you know, to scream when everyone else is screaming, and laugh when everyone else is laughing, and feel all of those feelings. If the crowd is such a special, special thing.
Yeah, Well, in twenty twenty five, when a lot of movies are not going to theaters, and obviously we are currently living in a moment where everyone is loving to go to the theater because of a horror movie with sinners, what was it like for you guys to make a movie that was exactly always going to be for that. It's not going to streaming, it's not going to be
second screen. It is about the people in the cinema going like, oh, Mike, well I can't watch that, or everyone kind of laughing when you think somebody's gotten away, And there are many many moments like that in this movie. So how fun was it to be able to go into it knowing you're making a cinematic experience.
That was our first and foremost goal the entire time, is make this a movie that's so special to experience with other people that you have to see it in theaters. A big part of that was actually working with Imax people. From the very beginning, we knew this movie was going to be in Imax. We were crafting it for the big screen to have that intensity and that delight of how intense it could be on a big screen and
also craft. You know, one of the things that was really fun while working with the Imax people is they really encouraged us to use that aspect ratio change as a creative tool, not just you know, suddenly cut to it, but how can you guys use this as a creative tool. And we had the idea to use it as a
signal of death being present. So we designed for each death sequence a specific shot that pushes in in a very creepy, slow way, and that's when it expands to Imax and it gives you that feeling that death is here, and you know, for people who don't know to look out for it, it just has this feeling of extra ominous intensity. But for fans who know to look for that, it's similar to the way death arrives on the wind or with a music cue, except now there's a visual
symbol too. There's a moment where you can actually see death arrive on the scene, which is just so much fun.
Yeah, that's amazing, and I've feel like people are extra prime to understand Imax understand those aspect ratios because of Ryan.
And Sinners, which is amazing.
Something else that I really loved about this film is I am like a law lover, like lor Everyone.
Always rags on me.
They're like, oh, you love the law. I'm like, it's not that kind of law. This is a movie that's heavily invested in final destination law. So, as fans, what was it like to get to play in the sandbox but also expand it because we get new backstories here for fan favorite characters, we get a new understanding of how death works.
So could you talk a little bit about that.
That kind of expansion while also getting to pull from so many different sources, because I think a lot of the early reviews are like, wow, I did not expect that reference. I did not expect you to care about this one, which is my favorite movie, you know, So could you talk a little bit.
Yeah, that was very much by design from the beginning. You know, We're we come at it as fans of the franchise and FT five had one of the best endings that felt like it wrapped up even the franchise so well. So when we heard they were making another one, our kind of primary question was why what are they.
Doing here that it deserves to have another one?
And we really approached it from the perspective of, let's make sure that it doesn't break anything from the previous movies, but it's adding and twisting it in a way that's new because we want the audience, especially the super fans of the franchise, to never know where a movie's going next. That's what makes you lean forward, that's what makes we think for a really great experience in the theater is
I have no idea where this is going. And Final Listenation has a structure to it that is very well understood. You have an opening set piece, it's a premonition. All these people are marked for death, and it goes one by one all the way through that list, and we wanted to make sure to take that structure and then twist it and bend it in new ways that feel like they break the cannon. But then slowly, as the
movie progresses, you realize it doesn't break the canon. It actually borrows on all sorts of delicious rules that we know and love, and that was really exciting to us as fans of the franchise to both kind of honor the movies that have come before it, but also offer something new.
We also filled it chock full of Easter eggs for the fans. You know, every license plate, every little little note scrawled in in the book or in the maitre D's book or on the wall of the tattoo parlor, they're all just filled with Easter eggs that that you know, fans will We'll see, maybe maybe you take multiple viewings to really unpack.
We're still discovering things.
I was going to say because so many people who made it must and fans, so those people impost.
That Easter well.
And in the art department, you know, we encouraged everyone to put in Easter eggs without even telling us I love this, so that you know there could always be multiple layers that you're unpacking. And you mentioned, you know,
you hinted at Bloodworth's character. Another thing that was really important for us as we were working with Tony, you know and the writers on the script, is to give him more of a backstory and more of an understanding of where blood Worth came from and why he cares so much about death, why he knows so much, why he's so focused on understanding the premonitions of all the characters in the previous movies, and to do it in a way that you know, made him more than just
a mysterious mentor figure yes that comes in and gives advice and disappears. How do we really understand him more on a human level? And that was something he was really excited about. You know, he's always relished the fan theories of who blood Worth is, but also it was just so excited to kind of explore him as an individual and as a person.
Yeah.
I have a friend, a really fantastic Cora or the Good Endship and Fitzpatrick, and she loves these movies. But her one big thing has always been I want to know more about blood Worth, Like does he fit into a trope of just being someone who helps? Does he ever just say like go away, yeah please, I've had enough? And does he ever get to like have his own story?
And I texted her as soon as I go out of the movie there, and I was like, you were going to love this movie, and I, like you had been absolutely love it, and I do think it's one
of the coolest parts of the movie. And I would love to talk to you a little bit about that, Like what was it like to work with Tony to get to collaborate, because we also learned at the screening that his final words those are his words, right, So could you talk a little bit about getting to kind of Yeah, it was pay homage to him, but also collaborate with him.
He's such an icon, he's such an honor.
Yeah, he came to set and it was a really special moment for a bunch of reasons, all at the same time. He was so charming and so excited to be there and cracking jokes, and everyone was just amazed at kind of the vitality that he had despite the
fact that he physically was obviously extremely weak. So we knew going into this movie when we were crafting the story that he was ill, and so all of the details of sort of his character were with that in mind and working with him very closely to figure out like we were just saying, not only do how do we give him a beginning, but how do we give him an end?
How do we say goodbye to this character, and how does he want to do that?
And in that moment that you were just talking about, when at the very end of that scene there was stuff we'd written in planned, but we just wanted to give him a chance to just speak from the heart because the experience we'd been having him with him that day was so meaningful and we could tell that he had so many different emotions going on, just said, what has this all been about? You know, what is life about?
What is death about? What are you thinking about? Just speak to the audience, And that take that's in the film is him speaking from the heart. And you can really tell when you watch that scene that there's an icon kind of saying goodbye to the audience there and leaving us with a message of hope and beauty, which is something that we've really taken after that moment.
Yeah, I thought it was such a special moment. It was so much fun.
And also it's like kind of I love how in conversation it is with like the audience, with fans, but also it's got a dark hilarity to it because then you go on to some of the worst deaths.
Like the most so it's not like denying what the films are, but it gives him that moment which is really just completely lovely.
How does it feel now you've done the work, you've worked with the legends, How does it feel for the movie to almost be out there and to be a tangible thing that fans are going to see, that people are going to get to throw popcorn up in the air. You're starting to see those first responses of the audiences.
How does that feel?
I mean, my favorite thing is to is to hear from people who are big fans who really love the movie, you know, because because you know, it's a bit nerve wracking to make a new installment of such a beloved franchise and not know how people are going to respond to it, and to start hearing from people who saw the movie and absolutely loved it, just you know, I mean, what more can.
You ask for?
Yeah? How does it feel?
You?
It's a dream come true?
I mean, as filmmakers, you start making movies when you're in your house with your friends running around with the camera and spring tomato sauce over them as they die horribly, and to kind of be able to bring to life a beloved franchise and kind of doing it from the perspective of a fan wanting other fans to love it. It's so much fun to see those fans now getting to enjoy it and being thankful that they get a.
Little bit more of what they love. Is really really special as a filmmaker.
Yeah, the title of my review was like final Destination. Bloodlines knows exactly what we want and gives it to us.
So I think you guys deliver it on that front.
Awesome when you're going back rewatching the movies, just kind of immersing yourself in the world.
Was there like a moment or.
A movie that kind of stood out for you more than you expected when you were revisiting from the original franchises.
You know what, we.
Were big fans, and we became even more super nerves just because the first thing we did when we were hired was break down every single death on a spreadsheet exactly how many omens it had, how many dominoes to the route Goldberg, you.
Know how successful it was on a scale of one to ten.
And we put the deaths into categories and made sure that we never repeated ourselves and all that stuff. But there were several deaths that became kind of touch points some of our favorite deaths that inspired some of the set pieces. So for example, the screw on the balance beam from FD five, which is just such a delightful exercise masterclass in suspense. You're watching a screw, the tiniest thing possible. You're watching a bunch of feet miss the screw.
Nothing's happening, and you're just cringing and on the edge of your seat watching. That really was inspirational for the barbecue sying with the glass and the cup and how can we make the audience cringe but then bring that object in in an unexpected way into the roupe goldbrigs. You can't just swallow the glass, you can't just step on the screw. You have to bring it in in a way that nobody expected.
So that was one.
Another one was this what we call the spaghetti death and FT two, where the guy throws the spaghetti out the window. A bunch of other stuff happens, you completely forget about the spaghetti and then he at the very end, he slips on the spaghetti and that's what kills him.
So that was.
Inspirational for let's say the hospital death sees that comes later where you set something up and then you kind of forget about it, and then it comes in at the very end. So we definitely were inspired by a lot of the deaths that came before, but using them in new ways, you know, and uh, you know, all to keep the audience on their toes.
Yeah, I would love to see those breakdowns. That's incredibly fun. That's real fun.
Is there a no context spoiler that you are most excited for people to see?
No context spoiler for me would be the poster of FT five.
Yeah, okay, I love this. Thank you both so much.
I appreciate you for joining us. The movie is great and it was a total joy to talk to you guys, so thank.
You so much.
Next week on x ray Vision, Tuesday, we take one final visit to Jackson Hall as we review the season two finale of The Last of Us. Wednesday, we're reacting to Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning. Thursday, the Council gathers to discuss season two.
Of the Last of Us.
Friday, we're diving deep into the action set pieces of Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning.
Saturday News.
X ray Vision is hosted by Jesus Upson and Rosie Knight. And is a production of Iheard Podcasts. Our Executive producers are Jeelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman are super as in producer is a Booze Afar. Our producers are Carmen Lawn and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
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