Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for the penultimate episode from the second season of Severance The After Hours, So if you have not watched that, go watch that. Come back here. Hello. My name is Jason Concepcion.
And I'm Mersey Night and welcome.
Back to x ray Vision of the podcast where we dive Dee to do your favorite Joe's movies, comics of pop culture Coming from My Heart podcast where we're bringing you three episodes every single week plus news.
This week, we are talking about that very penultimate episode Severance. What can they reveal before the season ends that is going to keep people happy and keep people hooked. That's really what we're gonna be theorizing about after we break down all of the shocking and also shocking events. This is a very interesting episode because it feels both full and also slightly empty, especially after the big reveals of the last episode.
So we're gonna talk about it.
Theories are gonna be popping, and people are gonna be arguing. It's a stressful one, okay.
Season two episode nine of Severance The After Hours penultimate episode ten episode season this season, in contrast to season one's nine episode run. We open at the Egan family compound, where we see Helena Egan going through her morning routine, which is lots of laps in the pool, and then she goes to see her dad, Jame the whispery Joe Bie voiced James.
Yeah, this man so creepy.
He's an ancient guy, and it's a big day, apparently, he says, a momentous day. His revolving. I would assume this is. You know, he's talked about this when we saw him at the end of season one. His revolving is coming up, and we know that Cold Harbor is at ninety six percent, so this is These things are probably all interlinked somehow, but a big day. Helena agrees. She asks, are you gonna eat? Are you eating today?
He says, nobody's gonna watch her eat creepy a boiled egg while he SIPs coffee, and she like carefully slices this one egg and then eats it on a porcelain plate that appears to be have like a artwork like seven. It looks like seventeenth century Dutch artwork depicting a dentistry scene.
Very creepy, and.
She's like carefully slicing up this hard boiled egg and Dad says, I wish you'd take them raw, which is a reference to Cure's kiri in the ancestors favorite meal, which is apparently raw eggs. So how they that's running in the family, that that desire desk on. I know. Helly then gets driven away, presumably to Lumen, as we get the drone shot pulling away from the compound revealing the huge Lumin water tower, allowing us to kind of
situate the Egan mansion in town. And it does make me wonder if there is if this whole town isn't in some way under the sway of Lumen, no one form or another.
I would also say lots of theories abound about the potential that Lumen is putting something in the water. Lumen is trying to influence people's behavior by you know, drugging them so that they cannot or can do stain thing. So we'll talk about that more in the theories, but I felt like the massive Lumen water tower is very inspiring for those who are theory minded among us.
Yes, we go to Lumen where Eustacewong is with Milchick and he is celebrating her matriculation. I guess or graduation from the Wintertide Fellowship. She is the Wintertide Fellow for this year at Lumen, and Miltchik is also clearly pleased because he's getting a antagonist out of his office, someone who's been like he's been engaged in a little power
struggle with. She is now leaving her parents' house to travel along with her bed, which, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't that like one of Rickens things is that a child has to stay in the same bed, same bed.
And also as well, Jason, you know, I think you uncovered that this made me think of during the in between episodes eight and nine, could you talk a little bit about Cold Taba being a kind of analog for a real furniture company.
Oh yes, let's talk about that.
Well.
First of all, I just want to remind people about the scene from last season in which Mark is sleeping, you know, at Devin Rickens. He's slipping in this tiny bed and then they start talking about, like Rickens colleagues theories of beds that Ricken is apparently adopted, and Mark goes, I still don't get the three beds. Ricken says, right, Devin says Rickens. Colleagues told us that switching out of the beds as the child grows can wound that child,
and Rickens says irreparably. But if you provide said child with all of its beds upon birth, you allow it to progress across the room at its own rate, which sounds ridiculous. But now Eustace Wong is going to Sarbard with the bed from her parents' home. So thinking about the way Luman was quite eager to adopt Ricken's philosophies for use inside the severed floor, and the way apparently his quote unquote colleague has a theory of beds that
is already adopted at Lumen. It makes you wonder about the ties between Ricken and Devon and Lumini.
I was gonna say that Devin as and Ricken is ops is feeling more likely than ever fifth episode.
I mean, certainly there are there must be spies in town, like this town is filled with lumin spies, of course, so it's quite just possible that he's just knew Allumin person who had adopted this philosophy for themselves. But it's very interesting that now the bed thing is is popped up again. Anyway, she's disappointed. She's going to savar barge. She thought she was going to stay for the quarter, and Miltchik's like, no, you're not saying for the quarter.
And guess what, you got to destroy your little ring toss game, because that's part of the lumen Cure ideology that you have to give up a sacrifice of childhood once you move on to this next level and you're on this career track, and so you got to destroy this thing. And he watches her destroy the ring toss game with her jame bust, which we saw that Cobel
also had one of these jame busts. And it should be noticed that the jame bust that Eustace has has another of the has a different of the nine tenants of Eganism, Like on it it says, hold on, let me just get it it badly, bab will be baba? Where is it? I did it say?
I thought I'd put it in here, but.
Oh, Eurovision okay, it says Eurovision.
Uh.
While Cobel's was the Year of Wiles, so references to the nine tenants. And I wonder if, like, do they just cycle through those and they acting.
That's Gyral wondering, is it like the it's like the Chinese years of birth, where like you do as twelve and then you come back, or yeah, the nine?
Does it just cycle through?
We then go to Audi Dylan's house, where his wife Gretchen admits to him that he's she's been having an affair with.
His any merit we but don't do it. Don't do it, merret.
He is absolutely shocked. She's in her work. Her first responder, I should say, like, uh, work clothes, which will be important for it a scene coming up later. So for Audi Dylan, this is crazy fucking news. Of course, Gretchen is like, but you seem so adrift and you're any reminded me of how you used to be. And Audi Dylan's like, yeah, well, what if I quit and I just kill him? What I do?
Which I actually thought this was a great moment because it feels like a kind of realistic emotional response, But it also gives us more insight into how the innis are perceived.
Because he literally is like, well if I just killed him to work.
So there is conversations about the mortality and kind of lived reality of innis, and there is also obviously as we know, like zero protections for them as kind of fully realized human being.
He also says like, I'm going to work and don't go fuck my inny, like while I don't go fuck my body while I'm at work. We go to Irving's home. Irving comes home to discover Bert in his dog radar staring into the kitchen or the living room and who's
sitting there with Bert? And Bert is reading some of Irving's proloined Lumen investigation documents, including reading notes that are related to himself to Bert that mention that Bert has been linked to a bunch of disappearances and potential deaths of people who disappeared into like the Lumin system, and it mentions Bert as potentially like an enforcer or a goon, some sort of company hitman, and Irving is like, hearing
Bert read this, He's like, yes, it's true. I was suspicious of you at one point, but I know that you're not with the company anymore and that you're not that person. And Bert's like, do you want to go for a ride with me? Which seems very ominous, and so we go for the ride.
Yes.
We go into Lumit where Maer is observing Gemma in her apartment on the test floor. She's just sitting at her little table. He flips over to the Cold Harbor numbers and sees that they are stuck on ninety six percent. He becomes alarmed at nine am the numbers aren't moving. Is Mark at work? What's going on? Miltchik gets a call from Drummond. Where the fuck is Mark? Today is
the day? Probably related to whatever Jame is excited for that the final quota is promised, and we promised, apparently the old boss James, that it would be finished today, So you've got to get Marked to work. Let's pause here because I want to say that maur looking at Gemma on the video feed and then seeing the number the Cold Harbor numbers stuck on ninety six does support my probably wrong theory that Gemma's apartment is Cold Harbor.
Inside of Gemma's apartment is Cold Harbor, and she's being tested all the time for some sort of response that they haven't yet adequately fulfilled, so that, in other words, we saw cold Harbor. It's her apartment and the test is you know, when Maer comes in and basically drops all these references to Mark, and Mark doesn't. Marx moved on, he doesn't love you anymore, and she has emotional reaction, right, the win for them would be she has no reaction.
That's the theory supported by this little thing, this little scene here down on the severed floor. Helly comes stomping in, as clearly Helly because she comes with shake and said shud. Yeah. She goes down to MDR. But no one's at work, and she's kind of disappointed by this because she's clearly can't wait to see Mark and is worried about Mark because of last time she saw him he had that nosebleed. Devin is driving Mark to meet Cobell. Mark has a
good grip on reality right now. Devin is like asking him, do you know where you are? You know? And you know? Do you know who I am? All that stuff. He thinks going to meet Cobell as a mistake. It certainly feels like that. I think, to all of us, what if it's trap? He says. Devin says, we need her. I would go I would why do we need her? That's a different I don't really understand that part of it, like why exactly we need her?
But Devin seems to be very intent and focused on keeping Cobel in this situation, which again I think is very suspicious or at least if not suspicious.
Because she's of a lumin plan.
There is something between Devin and Cabel that we don't yet know that she.
That mock.
I think it's I think it's possible. I think it's possible. I think it's also possible, as with the Rickens colleague bed theory, that she's being manipulated by other forces, maybe Lumine, and she's acting in a way that she feels is for the best sincerely, but doesn't understand that she's been manipulated. It could be also be that anyway, Miltchick is blowing up Mark's phone, but he lets it go to voicemail. We know what that's about. Down on the severed floor,
Helly goes to see Milchick. She's like, where the fuck is Mark? He had a nosebleed and now all of a sudden he hasn't been in two days and is he okay? And Miltchick is like, don't worry about it, Like Dylan is taking over like Mark's role while Mark is out. It's not a big deal, and She's like, oh, you mean like the way you took over for Bell, like you're We're just all how's that going? And now Milchik is kind of getting mad and he's like, Helly
are you urain'tsportant? And he and she's like, don't mean Helly e Don't you mean Helena Egan? And he's like, okay, well sure you're Audi is my boss, but you are just Helly Are and you are my the worker that I manage, one of the teams that I manage. And so you're dismissed. And by the way, leave the door open. And then Helly just like slams the door even though he asked her to leave it open, a rebellion once
again simmering all over the place. Gretchen, now not in her work clothes, is goes to see any Dillon uh and she tells him that she had the conversation with Audi. D any D is like very very clueless. Is He's like he's happy for us? Right? No?
He says the like is he glad for us?
My heart was like like that Simpsons episode, so you can see raps tell the breaking.
So she breaks up with any D and any D can't stand that we all remember first love, right, the first time you really like get in a relationship with feelings. This is like that for him, so you get it right. He tells her, you know, my life really started when you started coming to visit me, and he drops down on one knee and he presents her with a ring made out of office supplies. This is shocking.
Yeah, like one of his finger traps, which is like this also crazy because he doesn't really own anything, so for him to give this to her as like a huge deal. But she obviously is just like I probably shouldn't have kissed you. This is crazy, Like she doesn't understand the importance and emotional kind of resonance of what she means in his life because she's never been in any.
Yeah, she shocked, she's she's She clearly is like, okay, this is all a mistake, and she declines, of course, Dylan, or continue the relationship or whatever, like.
She's obviously like I am already married to you, but I love her. We like give her an Emmy for this moment, like she's like the silent crying because I think she actually.
Does know what have I done?
Yes she does, But also this version of Dylan is like one that loves her and is still like.
Sweet and appreciated, appreciate her.
She's saying goodbye to in this moment too, that I just think is really good.
So she walks out and Anie Dylan screamed, but to no avail. Later, Helly is talking to Dylan about his finger trappering, and he's like, you should just keep it and give it to someone you meet down here. Helly thinking that her experience of like falling in love with the coworker is just like something common that I guess everybody will will find and maybe that's the truth. But Dylan is like, well, you know, it's just like O and D and the goat people down here, Like who am I gonna fucking mean?
Am I gonna mean?
Yeah?
What are my prospects? Helly meanwhile is continuing to be extremely rebellious against her Audi. Is raging at Audi's in general, which is an interesting contrast to the where her family views Innies. But she's like, everything is for the Audies. They take everything. Helly then reminds doing that Irving was your friend, who's you're very very very.
Very close friend. Yeah, and then emotional kind of scent a piece of your life.
That's right, and that Luman distracted you from that by bringing down this Audi woman that you don't even know, so stop falling for it. And then Dylan gets very mean and he's like, you know, the only reason we're down here is because of you. It's this is all of your fault. And by the way, when you were down here as your audi, no one could tell. And she's like, well, Irving could tell. He is like, well, Mark and tell, and then he walks away. That was very,
very mean. Cobell finally arrives to meet Mark and Devin. There's like a very funny moment when she's like, how are you and he's like, well, you know, my wife is being held prisoner by a lumin and I just had brain surgery in back around I'm doing fucking great. And they bicker a little bit and Cobel is like, don't let's not bicker because we're allies now. And apparently the plan is to take Mark to the Demona Birth
and Retreat, but they can't go in the daytime. They have to go at night, and she says that once any Mark in the office has completed Cold Harbor, which he suspects he is not finished, because why would he be carrying out this mission like it would be over apparently if he had finished. But if Cold Harbor is completed, that's apparently the end of Gemma. She's already dead. Cobel says,
if you finish Cold Harbor. Cobel then says, call Miltchick can get off work, because if Miltchick suspects you're up to something other than taking a day off or sick, then he will lock you out of Lumen and that's it. It's game over. Mark doesn't want to, but Devin talks him into it for Gemma because apparently Cobel knows how to get her back. We think. Helly then uses her key card to go to the breakroom to retrieve Irving's elevator map, while Dylan just is wandering the halls making
a big decision. He essentially comes to the decision that he's going to quit. Bert meanwhile, is driving Irvin somewhere. He admits in a conversation in the car that yes, I worked for Luhman doing black bag stuff.
Apparently I drove people I didn't know where they were going, but they didn't come back, so that's ominous for he did say I never heard anyone. I need you to know that, but it's like you didn't stop them.
Gang.
You do wonder if that's what's happening right.
Now, which is what I've wonders too understandably.
Yeah. In Miltchik's office, Dylan fills out a resignation form, and Miltchik is taking this quite personally, and I think this is a reflection clearly of his management. He says, this reeks of ingratitude. Wong is like, I'm so sorry I didn't like manage you better. Miltchik then takes the ID card and says, okay, Dylan go to the elevator and wait outside the severed floor in the atrium, Drummond
like upstairs basically in Lumen. In the atrium, Drummond is reading Miltchik the Riot Act for not being able to get marked to work and you know, like not being able to deliver in cold Harbor when it's been promised, and this is all Miltchik's fault. And Miltchik defends himself by using a big word, which is a no.
No.
We talked about this, So Drummond is like apologized for using a big word, and then he does, but then he's like, apologize again, and then Miltchik snaps and basically tells him to devour feculence aka shit, which Drummond is like, now, how what what did you say to me? And then Milchik finds a spine. He's like, Hey, the Severn Floor, I am the manager of the seventh floor. You have to respect me, even though you're my superior. You need to respect me because I do like very sensitive work
for this and important work for this company. Second, the Severn Floor is the whole of my kingdom, meaning out here, Audi Mark is your fucking job. If you don't know where Audi Mark is, then that's your fucking fault. Turns on his heel and walks away.
I gotta say, guys, you know we have been on quite a roller coaster with Milchick this season, Like is he gonna ton against Luman?
Is he gonna be an ally to the innies? I think morally.
I cannot state where he stands, but I would not be surprised to see Milchick fucking up some higher management in the finale.
His patience is coming to an edge, and.
I'm eager to talk about this later, because I do think I've been thinking a lot about the idea of a heel turn or what a hero arc or redemption art, what that could mean in the context of this show, Mark calls Miltchick and, after initially trying to blame it on the nosebleeds, which I think makes Miltchick kind of alarmed, like any kind of medical thing with the head, He's like, let us send you a car let us let you should be on look a Lumin care with something like this.
He then Mark, I think very canonly realizes Okay, this is the wrong way to go and just says like, listen, I just need a day. I need a personal day, Like I just need a day off. Okay, do you get it? Like isn't that what llumin is about? Like work life balance, like and I need it, and so you know, work his work right, and time off is time off. So That's what I'm doing. And Miltchick gets
emotional at this. He's looking at his tip of the iceberg painting behind his chair at his desk, and he backs off and makes Mark promise that he will come into work next day, which Mark promises do and then they hang up and it's a it's interesting to watch Miltchick get emotional.
Yes, I thought this was a very interesting conversation because Miltchick really kind of like the way He's like, do I have your word? And Mark's like, sure, right, it's it's it's it's a weirdly weighted moment that I'm very interested in how it kind of came absolutely and what.
It means same same Okay. We go to a train station where Bert buys Irving. A ticket goes all the way down the line, So he's like, you can get off anywhere outside of Kere. Just don't. I don't want to know where you're going, but you could go anywhere and just go and you can never come back, never come back. You need to leave here immediately because apparently it's not safe. He admits that the innocent any part of him does love Irving. How does he know?
That?
Question?
Mark?
Was he ever an OUDI? Or an? Was he ever anything? But him?
Say?
Is?
Is?
Was he ever truly sever? That's the question? Maybe will be?
I think he was, But like, how did then? How does he know that he's any? I don't know anyway? Clearly there's some kind of warm feelings, I guess, you know. Part of the theme that it seems like has been arising from the show is that love. It sounds very trite, but love conquers all love, love conquer severance. Love is something that comes through severance, So maybe he feels that despite being severed. Irving is like, can't we just keep
going with this? Like I've never been in love before, I've never been loved by another person, which is so sad to hear, and Bert is like, well, now you have been, like has a feel and like it feels good, like I don't wanted to stop, which you know, it's like, can't we just do that? And Bert very strongly says no, we can't.
And they don't even get to have a kiss.
They just kind of wish they can't do this, and it's oh, it's heartbreaking.
It's heartbring. Serving gets on the train with Radar, his dog, and they leave town into literally into the sunset, and again makes you feel as if is like, is this town like a simulation? What's going on here? Because it feels yes, leave. The shot of the train leaving felt weird to me. Also, it was any very.
Like sunset like picture perfect, not really.
Yeah, while that is happening, we see the elevator doors open and Dylan get on the elevator, and we don't see the transition to audi but we assume that that's gonna happen soon and that's gonna be the end of ity. Dylan potentially question mark that evening Mark is in the bed of the truck that Kobel got insult set. Meanwhile, down on the Severn floor, Helly is trying to memorize the directions on the back of the map to go
to the elevator. Jame Jame Eagan appears in the doorway doing on that well today is the revolving if that is indeed what is happening, so clearly not eating and then appearing here, he had some kind of procedure that he was going to undergo, so he appears there and he accuses Helly, if you tricked me about what We'll talk about that more later. Cobel arrives at the birthing retreat and talks her way past the security guard. Is
basically we're going to cottage five. This woman is she says ominously one of James, which is like, how many women. Has Jane been doing whatever with QUI.
I'm going to talk about that into this because it's pretty crazy.
That's not great. Cobel in the Guard then share a dialogue from a classic episode of The Twilight Zone. I forget the name of the episode, but it's the one where the the mannequins.
Oh, I love that episode so much.
It's the one where the mannequins are alive.
In the department store, in the department capitore, kind of almost.
Like a week or something outside of.
The scrum Spring.
It's like where they get to live as a person. And this one h manniquin had loved it so much that they forgot they were a mannequin, and only when coming back into the store to shop as a person do they come to realize horrifyingly the truth that they are a mannequin who forgot who they were. This feels Ray pointed. So that's clearly like a coded password that passes between Cobel and this car. So they drive up
on the drive mark the transformation happens. So clearly it doesn't that the any audi transformation there on the grounds takes place outside of the cabin, it seems because it just kind of hit him. He wakes up in the Birthing cottage. He's confused, he's his any self, he doesn't know where he is. He goes up to see Cobel. She's waiting upstairs. Devin asks, any Mark, do you remember the last thing you said to Cobell? And he's like yes, Season one finale, She's alive, meaning Gemma, And then we
go to credits. Okay, crazy episode. I feel like I know less than I knew.
When I actually find that the most interesting thing about this.
But let's go to.
A message from our sponsors, who are definitely not Lumen, and then we'll come back and tap in super producer Joel for predictions.
We're back. Let's bring in Joel to talk about a crazy episode of the Severance television program. Joel, your thoughts, your initial takeaways this episode before we start getting into it.
Pen Ultimate episodes are so fascinating to me. I think they're difficult to nail, challenging to Like, you want to lead into a place where you're able to like leave with the giant cliffhanger. You want big action in the finale. It's got to all build up to this. But the
Penn Ultimate really sets that up. And what I found so interesting is before this week, get this sort of solo episode with Harmony where she's going through her past, a lot feels revealed to us, and then this episode it's almost almost business as usual, but something's off everywhere. Everyone is not on their game, like both Helena and Helly doing some weird stuff. Helly's pushing back against bosses.
Helena that swimming scene where she's in the pool and at one point you're like, is she at the surface or is she downing at the bottom.
The lights are sort.
Of over her head in a strange way that makes you wonder. I mean, when we see water is so prevalent in this show, that was wondering, is this like a pivot point for her? And we're just not fully keyed into what's happening with her yet. I think what's been really interesting about this episode is we see a lot of things we've heard from any's previously reflected in
their audi's sort of behavior. For example, Dylan in season one, Dylan has this moment where he's like, you know, I like to imagine my Audi is out there just you having sex with people's wives, Like I really like the idea he's out here.
Like courting other peals.
And when Audi Dylan learns that any Dylan has essentially been doing this to him, like, his meltdown is so intense.
Because she does reveal that it was you know, she says she kissed the any. I would say they made out, but still they didn't sleep together.
She well, hold on, she gives him The craziest part of it is she gives him a duration. She goes for about a minute made out, which is like.
Why are you telling you don't need to know that?
Like, but bah, the confessions they're weird time, You're like, it was only a minute?
What? But ay the same time, like, his meltdown is so severe, you know, it feels like a huge, huge betrayal to him.
Well, and look at what he does, Like his first reaction is to throwout his green smoothie, which it sort of feels like, you know.
Why am I being healthy for you? Yeah? Exactly, Yeah, this is the thing I'm doing for you.
This is a thing, like and you don't even care about it. I think we see so much of Helly rebelling and being like this isn't fair.
She's all about justice and You're just like kind of looking at Elena like is this you do?
Is that?
Is that within you? So I'm really excited.
To see if we get a turn from her, particularly after Dad goes downstairs to see Helly.
What a weird moment. The other thing I was, you guys were.
Just contemplating, like, hey, is not irving, but but is severed. What's he ever severed?
What's happening?
I have any thought, and it's I think Bert early severed person, and not only early severed person, but also one of the first to have multiple separate spaces.
I think. Then he says, I didn't hurt anyone this version of.
Her, but.
I think, yeah, I think, And I think part of the reason that he is so desperate to get her ring out of town is he does not want to be the one who does it, to flip the OTC switch and all of a sudden he becomes killer Bert.
And he does not kill these gays and do not just gay kill his gay love.
I will be very distressed.
Okay, I can't, so let's sorry.
I think before we let's start with what we know, Let's do it in the finale, because I think that's a great way to frame that.
Okay, so I watched because I'm like, what the fuck is going on in this show? I watched the finale of season one while in the middle of my second and third rewatches of this episode. And Okay, here's some stuff that we know. Current CEO of Learning and public face of Severance as the inventor of the technology is
Jame Egan, who is still active somehow in the company. Okay, we know that, and I think that's an important thing to know for various reasons because his revolving, which he talks about in season one, is apparently happening this day. Is it going to happen? Is it not going to happen. We don't know what revolving is, but we know it's an important thing for Jame and potentially the company, although it's unclear if those things are connected. What else do we know?
We know Harmony was the real inventa.
We know Harmony is the real inventor of Severance, and that credit for that process is clearly a big motivation for her and the frustration with not being credited with it. So while you know, whatever it is that she is doing, whatever her plan is, visa v mark credit or revenge for being cut out of the credit, I think is
a huge motivator for her. What else we know? We know Jema's alive, okay, and we know that she is fairly close to one hundred percent on Cold Harbor, and that we know that after that she will cease to exist. Does that mean she is dead? Does that means her mind is white? Does that mean she it disappears into the lumin ecosystem and never comes out. Does it mean but we know that she right? We know that she is her gema person is gone forever once one hundred
percent hits that we know. We know that Lumen has multiple offices, and I will is it not interesting that many of the offices that we hear about are in cold climates? Like there's the old one in Salt Neck, there's the one here and cure it's far Bard. Now, like, what is it about Salt Neck that is potentially important to whatever their work is?
I guys known, I'm not gonna bring it up, but I'm gonna tease that I have a crazy but unbelievably researched theory that I am going to drop at the end of this episode, and it's gonna blow your mind because it's actually so good, and I think the coldness could add to it.
Okay, we we know that you're love uh raw eggs, and that apparently Jamee likes you know, continues the thing wants to see people eat raw eggs.
Great note on that that somebody pulled up and Reddit they thought was really good. Which is a war egg is you know, you can separate it, but generally just goes down as one. Right when Helena eats her egg, she eats the inside and the outside of the egg separately.
And they don't get crossed those of us.
So I also wonder if there's some kind of analogous situation there about the inny and the aunt tea of it all and the same soul and the separate souls. I thought that was a really good catch that somebody brought Ueah.
We know that severance activating the chip can happen anywhere, including off of lumen grounds, and the range is tbd. Do you have to be in range of the water power? Do you have to be a range of some kind
of signal? We don't know. But what we do know is, as we saw at the end of last season, OTC and we saw in the season with the Orpo that you can flip it and that there is a room that you can access to and maybe more than one room where you can flip switches and get the innies to become Audis and vice versa, and that can happen anywhere. Why would you need that? I don't I don't know why you would need that? Are we missing anything else? Oh?
We know now that Jane Egan has been taking a string of women to the birthing cottage for probably off the books reasons, and that that is extremely concerning and troubling.
Yeah, and we know, can we say we know that Luhmen is Luhman has at least one if and likely many many more assassins people to disappear, people like they they have been engaging in shady secret of behavior for a long time.
And the names are very important, they're specific, not call Achilles. Like, can we start with the baby Mamas and the drama because I think it opens the most important question that people have been batting around for a long time, which is why else isn't Eager Megan?
I think is the big question.
Is who are bring up?
I think earlier in this season, the kind of parallel between you know, presidents who were slavers, who rape their slaves and now have you know, hundreds of relatives.
I think there is.
An element there that they are drawing on that is really horrific. And how many Egans are there? Do you have to have Egan blood to be in Lumen?
Is it that kind of situation?
I also saw another great pull on Reddit where the Reddit poster suggested that Lumen had been putting something in the water that meant that people were infertile, meaning they had to go to the Lumen run fertility clinics where then they were being impregnated potentially with Lumen, I mean Egan DNA.
I think we've seen corporations do before, whether if not necessarily in the water, but absolutely sterilizing women without their consent. So that's a really interesting theory. I have a couple of theories on who.
I think could be a secret Lumin Jeson. Do you have.
Ian?
I don't necessarily have in a secret Egan theories, but I do want to note that in season one, when it is being explained to any Mark who has been ot seed and is now outside at Rickens book event, at Devin and Rickens home when it's being explained by Devin to any Mark that he had a wife but he couldn't forget her, which is why he went to Lumen and got severed. She says it in a very interesting way, which is but Gemma was just in his
blood and he couldn't get away from her. So I just wanted to raise that as like an interesting way. Is she just being poetic or is that and again devon being inculcated with this kind of Egan philosophy in ways that maybe she doesn't even know about it anyway, So you secretiggans?
Okay, okay, okay.
My first guess is Ricken he's got he's baby vibes, not even his nepo baby vibes.
I do wonder if they know their secret.
I think they don't, you know what I mean. Sorry to interrupt, but I just want to say that I think that there's abdy that a lot of the people in this town have, if not been severed, or they don't know who they are or who they started as.
And I think that the title of this episode, the after Hours, which is a reference to that uh classic Twilight Zone episode, kind of suggests that that all of these people, if not most of them, have forgotten who they are, don't actually know the origins of where they came from.
Yes, I agree, And so with that sort of in mind, and that Twilight Zone episode which is called Yes, after Hours so good, there's something if you if you watch after Hours, there's like a magnetic pull back to the store, Like she's like, I don't know why I keep coming here, but I just keep coming back, which is the thing we see over and over again throughout the series of PEP. We were like, why are you going back to this building?
It's no good in there. Get the hell out. And with Rick and you know, he's so determined throughout, like the first half of season one to be like, hey, listen this book.
I wrote it.
It's gonna be great. It's gonna change lives.
I can really see like a future that's much brighter because of this book. Then the minute, the minute Lumin steps in and is like, hey, you actually did help people.
We just need to tweak me.
He's so quick to change, and he's constantly coming back around to Lumin and being involved in what feels to me to be very shady. I also think his haircut is a clue anyone with a weird haircut. I'm like, possibly an Egan. Those paintings are saying a lot, which leads me to my biggest suspect, who I also don't think knows. I wonder if Harmony is an Egan. I can hear me out one thing we know about her mother, She fucking hates hates them with a passion. We don't
hear anything about a father for Harmony. We know that she's in that town where the Keys sort of started his journey.
We know that that ether was really important early on.
And there's something to be said about bastards who are sort of looked over to be like do you have potential in the bloodline, like you know what I mean? And then get plucked from obscurity and sort of, you know, use as a pawn.
And a tool within like a hierarchy.
I think that sort of fits Harmony to a tea, and it also would sort of give creedence to this weird energy she has with Helena. Right, you're a bastard. Do you think you're very like you're worth more than you are? You think this invention is everything? You don't even own it, Like you're not grateful for all that we've given you when you should be. Those are my
two suspects. Either could definitely be more. I'm hoping we get a tease of it at the end, like with us being at the birthing Center, with us having seen some stuff there. I hope we get to figure out if there's a secrets want to pull on a couple of different threads in watching back on the season one finale when Helly busts out after the you know the OTC is going on, Helly busts out and she is at that Lumine event where clearly Lumen has been running a.
Worldwide campaign based around Helly being severed and working in the company alongside severed people as a way to say, hey, this is actually so safe, Like are the scion of our company had it done to herself? And she's having a great time in there, like Helly r loves being severed and loves or co workers. And you see part of the marketing she walks through like this big display of the marketing materials and it's like, you know, Mark and Irving and Dylan and they're all in there in
the pictures. Two things happen. One is she has a conversation with the woman who heavily implies that she was severed and that was what allowed her to have three kids, and the husband that woman's husband says, I'm so happy
you're doing this. You know, we're going to change a lot of minds, Yes, suggesting that however big lumin is, however widespread severances, there is significant resistance to it, and changing public perception about was about severance is extremely important for this company, who I think because this is how Cabridge it thinks, what want to take severance wider than it is. How whatever level it's at, they want to go up a level. And this is important to that.
This whole, the whole you know, Luminfest that they were doing was an important peg in that.
Yeah, because you also get those like this is going to change the world. We need to like episode day and nine, and that's a lot of like once Cold Top happens, like it's going to change the world forever.
So that kind of like it.
Seems like that in this transitional step where they really want to take it, you know, worldwide, this idea, and we know that it is global, but I think they want to make it kind of as normal as Ai has quickly become.
Yes, they want to have these offices, but it's not clear that severance happens at all their offices. You know that kind of thing. One more quick thing I want to pull out so you know, pr is going to be important to them, So they're not They're not that powerful yet. And two are we just like wrong about like what they're are all our theories about Gema wrong because it strikes me as so risky and irresponsible that you have a woman who you have kidnapped ongoing federal crime.
She's being kidnapped and tortured down there, and then you put her with people that you have in the worldwide marketing materials for your product, Like, wouldn't you keep her in a black box separate from those people? And even though you clearly have intense confidence in your severance technology, to never let them interact because if there's an OTC, which there was, now that information is out there and
I think we do it to be fair. We do see the company in season two kind of panicking about that, but it feels like they should be panicking more. And it feels like having Gemma interact with Mark on the severed floor when Mark is in the advertising and people know who he's not just like a a faceless lumin drone, like he's part of their marketing. It just strikes me as so risky. Why would they do that, Why would Cobel allow that to happen? And so are we just
wrong about like what they have planned for Gema? Are they going to resurface her some out?
I don't hear.
I think this is good, though, Let's talk about questions that they need to answer.
Yeah, because this.
Is okay, okay, So first let me let me ponder Jason Squeely.
I think I'm remembering Milchicken.
Harmony having a conversation when Harmony brings Gemma up for like a full day to sit with Mark and the crew, and Milchick is like, what are you fucking doing, lady, Like you should be happy this is working, and she was like, I just need to see I think that Cobel Harmony was like, especially after what we learned about her mother, I think she's got a lot of internal conflict about this, and that her whole thing was like a I want to make sure it fully works. It's
my experiment. She's like a scientist. She needs to see it through to the end. I also think part of her is hoping it doesn't work. I think part of her is still so connected to her mother. Her mother has such a rebellious spirit. She hated lumin She's still working for Luma. I think there's like something going on there where Harmony was like, listen, it's worth the risk. And I think she was kind of like didn't care about the overall outcome as long as she fully could
understand her experiment. I think the marketing and pr stuff is like outside of her.
Interesting that makes a lot of sense.
And also I do think it seems more like personal like that something she I.
Agree with you. I think control control over the severed floor.
Clearly Cobel was like wanted to run it her way for whatever her reasons are, and I think those reasons continue in whatever her plan is with Mark uh quick thing about the revolving I think an active theory that is out there is that the board doesn't exist and the bored consciousnesses are severed versions of Jame, either their stored versions of the Egan family that live within him possibly or they're just severed pieces of him that have
been molded using the personalities and rooms that have happened in the past, and then the revolving is literally like okay, next personality takes over all of which is to say, I think that whatever is going on with the Egans and Jame is separate from the overall strategy that LUMAN is, like the question of what is LUMAN doing, which is what is their plan for the Severance technology? What are
they doing overall? I think those two things might be parallel but kind of separate, because clearly with the it's one of James's comment, and with this revolving thing that is clearly something that like people outside of the family don't even probably know about, Like I think that there is and also the fact that Severance is twenty years old, Max like, and that whatever has been going on with Jame has probably been going on for a lot longer
than that. Therefore, I think that we need to think about those two things separately a little bit.
Guys, let me, let me I'm gonna blow you your mind.
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
And we're back. You guys have like perfect please setting me up with every single So no, no, it's great.
I'm just very excited because This is completely wild. I absolutely don't think it's true. I wish it was true, but I've got to say it because I think this person just laid it out so incredibly and I just randomly came across this. It has like one like but I think that they make an incredible point here. I would if you are afraid of the finale being ruined, just in case this is real, please put your hands over your ears.
Okay.
So this kind of plays into what Jason is saying about the nature of what Luman is actually doing, the severance being different to what the egans want. But user beginning camera three zero one seven has a theory about who the board are, what they want, and why they need the Severance floor, blood donations and fertility and birthing centers.
This is what they say everything.
Okay, there's a lot to digest, so take your time. It will blow your socks off. The board are dot dot dot vampires and what do.
You This is so I am like this person's theory.
What they want is a compliant livestock.
Women has blood donating.
Clinics, the milk, fertility and birthing centers, husbandry tanks, and the Severance floor. That gives them full control of their livestock. The egans are the humans who run the company for pr reasons and essentially get to like live because of that. They are the facade of lumen. This is like a twenty bullet point theory. So I will not do all, but I will do some highlights. Lumin means life. The
Severance floors are underground with no windows or sunlight. The OEND and MDR painting is the grim barbarity of optics and design. It's the man eating another man, but says that that painting never enters anywhere in the hallways that people can see because the board don't want people to know or think about who they are. The nurse constantly collects two bottles of blood from Gemma in her daily routine.
The nurse donates the blood, and while they say it's kind of an identity test, this person suggests that really the blood donation itself is how you get into the room every time they take the blood. And also in season one, episode one, this is the thing where I was like, Okay, this is actually you're selling me on a version of this HELLY asks Mark, am I livestock and that line being like one of the first things she says, as if Helena knows what is really going
on in the seventh floor, also anesthesia. The ether factory was the first way that the vampires got their supply of blood. Because people would be high, they would die, the vessels would open. They would always leave them open, so people would get addicted, and then you know, you could kill them very easily. But Cobell's design of the severance trip becomes revolutionary because it essentially gives them complete control of the human population if they can get people
to agree to severance. And yes, there's a lot, there's a lot more, but I know it's not real.
Love this, but that's what.
I just want to note.
Also, while I think this theory has gotta be wrong, I just want to note that keeping the bed could be like a vampire lore thing. He has to stay, yes, has to stay, has to rest in a coffin of like filled with the native soil of water.
Remember when Rickenrick has the dinnerless dinner pie with no food, so like are those people vampires? And dude also as well, I did like this because this is very basically every kind of y a vampire law. Another point they made was like Mark and Jemma. You know, they're donating the blood at the lumin Blood donation clinic. Another thing that the vampires would love because they can drink lots of blood. But that mention of like Gemma was in his blood
and why is marked so important? Maybe there's something in their blood that the vampires are interested in. I love this also, this is a really bleak one and I do think that to a point, this is going to be really important, though I doubt that it's going to be as simple as a vampire type situation. Miss Wang says to Miltchik, we shouldn't let them have funerals because it will make them feel like humans, and we get
a lot of that animal type. When Miltchik says, tighten the leak, like this idea that they are a sub human group who are essentially animals, which we know could be about you know, are they enslaved people? We've talked about that, but it could take that crazy genre twist and be more so.
That's why the vampires started with the exactly.
I just want to say, I'm going to find I'm gonna find beginning camera three zero one seven, and I'm going.
To give them a reward, a real reward.
But yeah, I love this one. This one blew my mind when I was reading through all the theories. So I had to share that with you guys, because what I love about it is what Severance has done here is last week we were talking about oh, you know, harmony Cabell and is it just about you know, standard child labor, horrible corporation behavior, And then we get back into this episode and we're all like, wait a minute, No, that isn't what it's about, Like is life a simulation?
Like where are they sending people? How do you get severed? What is the purpose of it? And I love that the show is so open ended and so surprising that when someone makes a theory like this they confine points to support it, like I don't do I think this is true? No? But do. I absolutely love the fact that Severance is a show based on the simple premise of what if you didn't have to experience going to work? That two seasons in has got us talking about vampires.
I will I will say that one theory that I think is right that I've seen out there is that I think that Helly Inny is the prime personality of Helena, like when Jame comes down there, this is just my I think that Helly was, as we see, extremely rebellious, probably didn't agree with what the family was doing. Remember in the season, in the season one finale, when she's like asking for forgiveness for all the things that the company
is doing. So I think that they flip her yes, and they created the version that was created, the semi version that was going to be more compliant, more like down with Flumen and they and they put the prime Helena inside, which also.
My poor heart, because if you think about the pregnant woman in the birth and Center that we meet, like their behavior is very similar to Helena's, which is to say, I'm a little confused to what's going on.
I'm not giving you much input.
I have thoughts and ideas like you shouldn't be here, Devin, but also like just like a malaise, just kind of wandering through life.
And that's totally yeah.
I think about the different motivations that people have for getting severed, which is like but wants to be innocent, he wants to escape his past. Mark wants to do it for loss or grief, but throughout history, any kind of procedure like this or scientific thing is often used to also oppress people first, and the same way that you know fathers and husbands would put their wives and daughters into mental institutes if they had babies early, or if they spoke out against them, or if you know
the Kennedy daughter who got a lobotomy. You know, this is very much in that space of Oh, so you can also choose what part of somebody gets severed if you want to put them in there.
And I think this comports with our over like the theory that we have that there are perma perma severed's perma innies, like I think that Milchik is probably a perma INNI I think that Natalie is one of these as well, where they just severed until they got the personality wanted and so they use I think Drummond who's probably like that as well. And all of which leads back to like a bunch of folks who don't know
who they really are, living like these very complex lives. Anyway, I have no idea where this show is anybody.
Crazy, okay, Joel, most they're like a seventy nine hour episode crazy.
Coming up thoughts on what we will see in the seventy six minute long Severance finale.
Okay, so I think that one thing Severance will need to do as a show, like if we just zone out and look at it as a show, is like potentially expand the world. And by that I mean they start this season by introducing us to a whole but yes, three new characters who have connections outside of this space.
One thing we're sort of talking about earlier is this idea of like why here, why have these cold, sort of isolated places and what why does Lumin to convince other people that Severance is okay, Like it's happening, it's
clearly legal, So what is the big is you? I think with the amount of rebellion we've seen from our severed folks that we've seen all that somewhere else outside in the world, Lumin has seen like a revolution of any's and people were like it's not good over there, Like they're not happy, they're miserable, and so they're like, we have to perfect Severence up here in these isolated spaces so that we can convince the world that this is a good things.
We can make more money.
I would love to see some of that, like rebellion. I'd love to see, like, what is it they're fighting externally? I don't think we necessarily have to see it. I think if there's one question that they absolutely must answer in this finale, I need to know what's going on with the Shadow people the way they were introduced first episode, middle episode, Please conclude giving me idea who the who are the Shadow twin not robot people?
Please?
It's a Bear season two style stunt casting, cameo flex that will never come back around again. They you know, like the way mulaney and Jamie Lee Curis we're in season two of The Bear and you're like, wow, I
think they did that. I think there's a world in which they were like, our show has a lot of juice now, and we can we can work with people who've always wanted to work with, who we think are great, and you can put in the mid right and so then we can cast these people who are never going to come back as as a kind of like bottle casting with some of our favorite actors. And I think that there's a world in which those that plotline never comes back around. It doesn't matter. Mm hmmm.
I hope they pull a solid Bear and give us a yeah, like they bring Jamie Lee back to such great heights that I think there's potential for that. But I hear you where it was just like, oh we love it.
Yeah, yeah, totally possible, totally possible.
What about you, Rosie? What are your big thoughts for the finale? What are we gonna say.
Needs to have their vampires? No?
No, I think I think the things that we need to know is there needs to be a question answered of I think that we start needing to know why Mark, Like I just need to even get of that because it is why Mark?
Why Gemma?
I also think we are something. I was surprised when I was doing my watches of this episode and kind of reading as I went and seeing what people were kind of feeling. I was shocked by how many people are deeply invested in the Mark and Helly relationship, even after the reveal of Jemmy. It's definitely giving racist fandom shipping. I'm not gonna lie like it's throwing me back to the sleepy hollow eras and the flash eras. But I want to see if the show will make a distinct
commentary on that in the finale. Will we see that Mark and Jemma reunite.
Is that real?
Will they leave a tease of Mark still having those feelings for Helly? I feel like that is gone for him now he knows Gemma is alive. But that might just be because they haven't gotten together. Also, I think we got to get a little bit more info. It's hard to say, like what questions do they need to answer, because they're probably not going to answer any definitively, But I feel like we've got to talk about reintegration a little bit more. It is it working? How does it work?
Do we have multiple severed marks? I just think they need to both they're in that very tough situation which we've seen with a lot of shows, a lot of franchises that MCU is very much in this situation. They both have to expand the world enough that we want to come back to it in season three whilst kind of closing and tying closing some doors and tying up something reds. So I think those are kind of the major major spots that I need them to talk about.
Secret Egan would be good.
Also, something that is really funny in thinking about this after you guys brought up Dylan, is that his crush on this Casey is like so much funnier now because that was him trying to like fuck someone else's wife again.
So that is just like his truth life.
Is Dylan still alive?
Any Dylan? That's what I want to know. I love any Dylan, So yeah, I don't know. So many questions my.
Okay, what I think for the finale, I think overall, the one thing that they kind of have to give us or we're gonna get annoyed is Cold Harbor. What is it we have to get that Cold Harbor cannot extend into season three? The mystery must end to the finale.
I heard him.
I don't know either, but it feel like that. It feels like that's the one thing. And I will say, like just zooming out. I think the show. Part of how you know it's good is even though there are you know, I have some nitpicks. As I've mentioned, you know, there are moments, there are seams in the cloth where you feel like here's where we could learn more, but they're not letting us learn more because they want to keep the mystery bubbling. And I think you mentioned reintegration, Rosine.
I think that I think reintegration frankly as a plotline kind of is a failure and too ambiguous, and so Mark under Mark undergoes reintegration and it kind of works, but then it doesn't work, so Regabi has to come in and juice it and flood the trip so it really works, and now he gets this flood of memories. He remembers Jem and I remembers all this stuff. He
remembers what's happening down there. But then it doesn't work again, to the point that they now need Kobel for question Mark Why, Like I I but do they need Nicovella?
Or is Devin a spy?
Like why why good Govey good wild? But why did you call ninety seven times like she's weird? Yeah, maybe tried to steal your baby. She definitely lied about being like a milky.
Yes, I think so. I think reintegration. The fact that we don't understand if it worked or not and what the impact of it ever really was, I think that
to me has kind of been quietly annoying. And the reason that we don't care about is because the show's so fucking good, Like I you know, like the show is great, So I think that you know, some substantive reveal on Cold Harbor, and generally continuing the thing they've been doing, which is telling us stuff while expanding the mystery but not doing it, but keeping that balance balance so that we're never learning so much that the dramatic
engine ceases and we're never so mystified that we're like.
Fucking why, Like now I'm annoyed and I feel.
Like I'm never going to get this payoff. So I think just those things and all of which would be I feel like accomplished with some substantive revelation about the nature of Cold Harbor.
Yeah, they can.
They solve the mystery of Cold Harbor while expanding.
The universe enough that we want to keep watching the show.
It's very Yellow Jackets and of Yellow Show, I mean Cold Harbor.
While Cold Harbor certainly seems threaded into the revolving and whatever's going on with Jamee, like resolving that does not tell us what Luman is doing? Why Mark, not necessarily why Mark? Why Jema does not tell us what the fuck is going on with the Egans, Like, there's a lot of other stuff that would not be.
Clearly not you know, it's we two seasons in its obviously not an anthology show, but there is a world where when the mark and gemma of it all is solved, they could take us anywhere else and follow any other characters within the Severance world. Oh yea guys, I know I read too much, ya, but I am interested in
the Regarbi Cabell connection. To me, it definitely feels like they both worked at the Minds and they were friends and harmony created it and Regarby maybe with Regarbi iron man style where Tony.
I think that that makes a lot of sense. I think her first the first technician, the Regabi had the actual surgical skills to do it, and exactly Cobell was the mind behind the technology.
And then Regarby rebelled and now the two of them are And that's why Regarbi's like, I can't be here. If Kobel gets there, I think the two of them are going to be way more connected. And I think that would be an easy reveal that would make sense. I had one crazy reveal that I'll leave Okay with vampires. Irving is on the phone with Devon Okay. That would actually be so crazy.
Though, Wait you think, oh my god, wait wait, Devin could be double crossing the double crosses and actually be part of like a resistance the Irving is part.
Of, and she's playing it simplistic and playing it completely weak and does not what's going on. I'm so confusing.
Gotta call Kobel.
She's because she's start a Cobel here.
Yeah, because she's part of this much more substantive resistance to Lumen that is necessarily hiding how much they know.
I like that. Also.
I loved the moment in the car where she says, oh, sorry, the wind was whistling over the hole in the back of your skull. So I didn't quite get that that Devon could be part of a resistance.
Oh my god.
Devin is such a mystery character, and it's sort of thrilling the way people are like, no, she's definitely evil. No, she's just a good sister. No she might maybe she's a double spy. Like I just really like the way the show has been able to both tell us a solid story that keeps.
Us integrated and then also integrated, but.
Also Lisa, I have so many questions about every single character. I don't feel like I fully know who anyone is.
I can't I cannot wait for this. On the next episode of X ray Vision, we're continuing our descent to Hell with Daredevil borning into a four. Of course. Uh, We're gonna be covering Severance next week Saturday Night News, and then of course come back next Tuesday for our second book Club, where we're reviewing The Merchant and the Alchemist Gade from the Short Story Latest Short Story Collection
Exhalation by Ted Chick. That's it for this episode, Thanks for listening by x ray Vision is hosted by Jason SEPs You and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
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