Warning. Today's episode can day spoilers for episode six from season two of sevens on Apple TV Plus. Be warned. Hello, my name is Jason Conspsion and on Mersday night, welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast where we dived to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Coming fromind our podcast where we're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, plus news on the weekend.
In today's episode, we are back in Loom and what is going on nobody knows, So we are recapping and discussing the latest episode of Severance Season two, episode six at Tila. You will never guess in a million years why it's called a tilla. Just some of my favorite writing of season so far.
Okay, let's get into it. Episode two O six Attila written by series creator Dan Eriksson and Aaron Wagoner, directed by Uda Brissowitz. This is her first first episode she has directed for this show, but she is steeped in the prestige television world, including stints on Stranger Things, Westworld, Black Marri et cetera.
Which I think does really come through this episode, like kind.
Of strange, strange contrasts in this episode for sure, Audie. Mark is describing his experiences of having these kind of breakthrough recollections from any Mark, and he's describing this Togaby. This is of course the in the wake of the reintegration process that Regaby kind of we are seeing amateurishly performed on Mark. He has shaken, like back this woman.
I get that she feels guilty and wants to kind of help, you know, take down Lumen or or help people who've been severed. But I feel like she does not have the experience to do this surgery. Like every time it's not going well for anyone, and I'm worried about out.
Yet, as we will see. So Mark is shaken by what he's seen. He's describing, you know, at a hallway that all of a sudden becomes these light you know, the the white, brightly lit hallways of Lumen. And he describes the experience of seeing his wife and he wants to know, like, you know, why is she saying the seemingly random like facts about Audis why does Luman want her? What's going on? Ragabi is like, well, clearly she is
vital somehow to whatever they're doing. And she says and system Mark that listen when reintegration, when it's and it's happening now you know, once the process is finished, you and your wife will be able to be together. How exactly that leap makes sense is not laid out by Regabi, but like Mark is clearly buying into it.
And that definitely makes me feel like she has an ulteriu motive. Yeah, there's something Reintroduitte because she's something she's deeply trying to commence. Mark, like, you need this, You'll be back with your wife, Everything will be okay. But as we see throughout this episode, that actual reality of an AUTI having older memories of that any and themselves. It feels and also, yeah, I'm gonna ask you about more about this as we as we get to the conversation. But yeah, very strange.
I think, just to kind of precursor my thoughts, I do feel like post asseverance procedure, there's only one outcome that makes sense. Either you're Audi destroys your Inny or your Any destroys your Audi. You can't be both, No one has to One has to be the person and the other person has to go whatever that is. Back at Luman, Dylan is telling Mark and Helly about the map he found. He's clearly very scared. He's like, I don't know why I put it back, but I'm scared
by this. Helly is really excited because she feels like getting somewhere in this, in this investigation we're undergoing. Mark is a little excited as well. Dylan just gets scared. He just like walks away. Yea, his privileges to be fucking his Audi's wife will not fun, but you know, like having an emotion.
I mean it is his wife, but it's not his wife.
Yeah. Mark looks in the fridge and suddenly the walls of the of Severance, the Glasgow block is like is just fading away because he's seeing he opens the work fridge, but he's seeing Mark fridge, Audi Marx fridge, and we're getting these like quick cuts between Any and Audi world and suddenly he's in Mark's kitchen. Miltchik is having a meeting with miss Wang and it's very tense. We saw in the previous episode that there is a little there's a power struggle clearly going on, and now it is
kind of out in the open. Miltchik makes it clear that post his little meeting with mister Drummond that he understands that strikes on his record came from miss Wang, and he lets her know, listen, your career track is contingent on my approval, Like I can decide anytime that you're not cutting it here and you will not proceed to the next level, which I forget what he called it, like winter Soldier. I want to say Winter Soldier, but it's not Winter Soldier. I'll look at it.
Yeah, it's that kind of situation. But also I have to say, how unbelievable is this act that he can absolutely act just fully against this child like it, but it feels like it's.
The most It's a stressful.
Meeting in the world, and you are not taken out of it by the fact that miss Wyang is the child Winter Tide.
Wintertide, thank you. So he lets her know, Listen, I get it. You want my job, but you can't even progress to out of Wintertide. Whatever this project title means without me saying that you're doing a good job here, that means cut out all the other shit, stop trying to undermine me, et cetera. Now here's a little something, because I just took you to the woodshed. But here's a little something I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna leave you in charge of the floor, but you can't sit at
my desk. You can't be in my off go to the desk, and clearly the look on Miltchik's face when she leaves is I'm gonna have to keep an eye on her. That's what he's thinking. Mark and Helly are in the bathroom, conspiring in a stall, and she thinks correctly that management is continuing to try to divide them, which must mean they're getting somewhere. Mark then is like, listen, I have something to tell you. I had sex with your audi Helena, thinking clearly that it was you at
the orbo. And Helly is like, oh my god. They really are trying to divide us. This is like another tactic from them. But I can't talk about this right now. I need to walk the halls and just like process, this is like too much for me to talk about. Milchik meanwhile, goes to like a storeroom somewhere and he is he grabs a jar of paper clips, and you know, with his review in mind, and the second point on the review, the criticism of him that he didn't put
the paper clips on the correct way. He now very diligent applies the paper clips to his reports in the correct way. Elsewhere, Dylan is again meeting with Gretchen, his Audi's wife. She is telling him more about Audi Dylan and what he's like in it, and we get we get the feeling, as we got from the previous interactions that Audi Dylan is kind of a flake, kind of directionless,
whatever the situation is with their relationship. She fell in love with a person that she clearly feels is more like any Dylan and less like her husband.
Also as well, like any Dylan fascinating. Any Dylan has this just absolute kind of Oh, he's in awe of her and just think she's so great because he's been great and any for so long. So there's also a passion and appreciation that that it doesn't feel like Auti Dylan is giving Gretchen.
Yeah, Gretchen is like, sometimes I want to ask your Audi, like is he happy? Like, because I feel like he's not happy, And Any Dylan is just like, how could he not be happy with you?
You're so great?
You must be like just so good all the time. And she's like, well, you know, like we're together now, and he's like, yeah, but it's not the same because it's not he has you for real, like in the outside world. And then he's like, you know, forget all this, can we just like hug again? So they hug and then they kiss. So I definitely an emotional affair going on, and you need to feel this is exactly what Miltchick
and the board want exactly, so Drummond want. This is what Miss Miltchick wanted, This is what Loom wants.
There's no other reason they would be letting him out. They're trying to fuck up his ship.
They're trying to fuck up his ship, trying to keep him away from keep him occupied unless it Mark's here. Well, all this is going on, Mark's at his desk and he's thinking about Helly and the art bow and all this stuff, And meanwhile Helly is walking around. She's thinking
about Mark. He goes so look for her. They run into each other and she tells him like, listen, Okay, you thought it was me, which means you have feelings for me, And Okay, I'm troubled by this, but like I get that you're not to blame in this situation and I want my own memories of you. And so this is Mark's the luckiest week of Marks really because he's just like getting it left and right. He's like, Okay, the Abel twin.
Imagine to me, you had twist my army.
Now I guess I'm.
Gonna have to have sex.
Too, like you guys, we're gonna have to do it twice. I mean, twist my arm if you insist, let's go. They go to an unused office and it's this weird mirror in inside lumin mirror image of the Orbo because they're under these these plastic covered workspaces that like mirror the tent experience. And they get down to business and again Mark is, this is maybe not exactly what milk chick on the board we're thinking. When it's.
Also I'm like, I love the wrinkle that Helly creates, Like it's it's really funny because they wanted the big reveal of season one is like, oh, she's Helena, you know, Helene essentially like runs the company like but really they make you feel like, well, you guys fucked up because Helly is a real one and she's crazy like you, and and it's so much fun to watch her trying her best to uncover the truth of what's going on, even in the face of this like horrific realization about herself.
And I'm glad her and Anie Mark are back in the good books.
It's nice. It's nice even though clearly Helly is unbeknownst to her a spy in some way exactly.
And also Helena is is OUTI Helena is making big moves this episode, so.
Like we as we will see yeah, when we find ourselves back with Miltchick. He's clipped so many reports, is like hands are shaking. He then goes to a mirror that's hidden behind like some folders on a shelf, and he now addresses the first point, the first criticism in his review, that is, he uses too many big words. So he says to himself, you know, he starts in a place like telling himself, addressing the criticism by saying, you must put aside childish things. And then that evolves
as he addresses his criticism too. You must grow up. You must grow up, You must grow, you must grow, you must grow. He eventually tells himself very seriously and very intensely. And I know Miltchik is not severed traditionally, but you do wonder if it left me wondering, like if there isn't a different version of severance that is like not location specific, it's time specific.
Like, yes, I think the big question in this after this episode is how does time walk in Lumen? And yeah, like the manipulate time. Did he begin as a child like miss wise? Right?
Is he severed for like a three month period or a three year period? You know, like is something we'll talk about this more, but like we we get from the Burt Irving Fields dinner the idea that maybe there is a rehabilitation aspect to severance, and so like is there something where someone could decide I'm going to get severed for three years, I'm not gonna remember any of it, and when I come out of it, I'm gonna be like set for yeah.
Like a different for a period of my money or whatever. Yeah.
Yeah. And also because I get the feeling from I get the feeling from Milk Chick that like he's under a gun deadline wise, and it's not Lumin putting that pressure on him, like he is feeling like I need to make the most of this time. That's the feeling I get. Yeah, I don't know. Let's continue. Helly and Mark are basically in love now they come out of It's wonderful. It's very cute to see them post intercourse and they are in love with each other because they
are just lovey w lovey dove. Helly realizes she's like, oh, they kiss, and she's like, oh, my nose is bleeding. No, your nose is bleeding. The clearly reintegration Regabi's backgroom reintegration process is like failing on some level. They go see miss Wang, who is you know, as the manager of the floor I guess is also like the school nurse, and as you would expect, she's very curious about this newsbleach. She it's like, okay, well the humidity is okay in the office, like because.
She also probably has some awareness of integration dude, like yeah exists. So yeah that definitely asking him like what's going on with you? Like are you still sabbath?
They're also probably you know that I would assume any like headaches or anything that happens like inside lumen. They're like, oh, the chip, like what's going on?
Oh that's a great point too.
Yeah, so she's asking like, have you been hallucinating seeing auras and of course he has been having both, and but he lies about it. And then right then it happens. Right then the audi world breaks through and he is with Ragabi in his garage and she's kind of hooked up to all this hardware and she's like, wait a second, where you're just like a llumin right now? And he's like yeah, and she's like, okay, well what was happening? Like what do you remember? Do you remember Hallway? Do
you remember an elevator? And he's like, I remember, I can't remember any fuck and he can't and he's and he's coughing, coughing, and we don't know how he got out of that, Like we don't know what the outcome of that miss Wang situation is. But like the worlds are colliding in a really fascinating way and it slips away from him. Regabby is like, it's happening, but it needs to happen faster. Why does it need to happen faster? I don't understand that, which leads me to believe that
you're right, Regabby. Whatever, there's her own agenda and there's a deadline to that and she's she downplays the risks of like quote unquote speeding it up by saying, oh, yeah, there is a risk of hemorrhage, but like we could do it, like we could like flood the chip whatever that is. And Mark is like, no, I'm no.
And also he's like I love au E mok. When he gets like really in like a tizzy and he's being like a dick to everyone and he's just like, I'm not doing It's.
Like I'm not sorry, I'm not get doing.
I was like, yeah, I love this for you, Adam Scott, like you never get to play somebody in a tizzy.
And we'll be back at work in Lumen after a word from our sponsors and we're back. What was that?
No? What was that? What was that?
Irving goes to dinner at the home of bud Bird and fields. It is charged. There is energy you could cut is an energy. It's a little bit like bringing your side piece, trying dinner with your when you're like long time part like and there is that kind of energy in the air. But there's also clearly like h and some kind of an attraction between the Audi Birtnaudy Bird and Audi Irving Irving apologizes for, you know, coming to the house previously and causing a ruckus and screaming
Bert's name. Phil says, nonsense, and then he says, very cuttingly, it seems like what's mine is yours and that's like whoa okay, okay, over dinner we get a huge I think a huge.
This is a massive kind of philosophical I think this is a huge detail. Wrinkle, Yeah.
Yeah. Bert says that he came to Lumen because of his relationship with Jesus Christ. He apparently was, in his words, a rascal of his life. Does that mean a scoundrel? Excuse me? Does that mean criminal? Does that mean sinner? What does that mean? We don't know. But he heard a sermon in which the priest said that the Church considers the innis and innis and outies to be completely separate, fully formed people with souls. Therefore, an any could go
to heaven while the audi goes to hell. Why appealed to them, because again Bert being a scoundrel, he was concerned, not even concerned. He was completely sure that he was not going to go to heaven, so he would not be able to spend eternity with Burt in this way with Fields, and this way an aspect of Bert they believe would be able to spend eternity with it. Fields his partner, this is.
This is crazy. So this is why I think Severance has done so well. And I was kind of awe struck by this and it was definitely giving me like Leftover's vibes. They take what seems to be a very simple concept, what if when you're at work you didn't your real life and when you're at home you didn't
remember your work life. But over these one and a half seasons, they've extrapolated it to the point where they actually are asking really interest huge question, very huge questions of like oh okay, well what does that really mean? And how do you behave at work and how would that interact with your life, to the point where they're now doing world building about how, you know, global religions perceive this specific way of living your life of working.
I think it's so interesting and I also this they're saying, like innies have their own souls, you know, so it becomes its own larger conversation and very interesting too, because the church sees the innis is having souls, but most other people and organizations don't even seem to think that they're worth having any agency.
Well that.
Is you.
I almost feel as if because we've seemed you're right the disdain that Helena Egan and others look at Any's with, including miss Wang, that they're less than real people, and you almost feel like God, was this sermon pr some sort of is it right?
Is it?
What is it? In response to that's the interesting thing to me? And it and it for the first well not the first time, but in the most overt way, brings up the idea that severance could be part of a rehabilitation process, some way to rehabilitate people, to make them to make pe to to allow people who like Bert were maybe not living the most upright, straightforward lives to make yeah, to make them to get something useful
out of their time. This is really fascinating and it makes you wonder, like what else severance is used.
For and in what I think that you touch on something really interesting here too, because we will soon learn something else at the dinner. Yes, that that makes that I think adds to your theory here. And I actually came away from this episode wondering, you know, the hopeful idea of it is rehabilitation, but the other side of it is like, is severance essentially like an alternate alternate to prison? Like is it?
I think it might be a different type of prison exactly.
And then we start to talk about, well, when you're in Severance, how much time are you actually in there spending working? Because it does seem from this episode that innies and out he's experienced time differently. But we're going to get to that in a minute.
So meanwhile, while all this is happening, mister Drummond uh is breaking into expect has like a huge bring of keys, let my man live, breaking into Irving's house. We have to note, of course that mister Drummond has the tattoo Frolic on his hand. This is one of the according to the Egan Lumen ideology, right, the four tempers, there is frolic, malice, woe, and dread and one wonders where
the others are. But like, so this is interesting anyway, Audi Dylan, Meanwhile, I guess the same evening is having dinner with Gretchen and the kids. And we see again this kind of like very disconnected relationship that Gretchen and Audi Dylan have and we learned that Gretchen is straight up lying to about what she's doing. This isn't it now?
It's an a well, I think because I think otherwise, like the any Auti all becomes very complex and well. You can understand how in some ways, if somebody behaves well, you could reward them by going to see their Auti family because technically it's their family. But as soon as she lies to him and says, I'm not going like I'm not going to loomin, I'm obvious, and she's like obviously now hiding the fact that she's like got feelings
for any Dylan is very interesting. And again, I think this is a really intriguing episode because it is essentially centered around all these kind of twisted romantic relationships that the Severance program has kind of sparked. Whether it's IRV and Butt and Fields now, whether it's Helena and Helly and Mark, or whether it's any Auti Dylan and Gretchen. So it's really interesting.
Mark is having dinner alone at a Chinese spot and he is eating like a total just get asked for a fork, No, he's he's lost, Okay, So being straight like with the chops of slurping directly off the off the plate, and it's like, just it's fine, you can just go ask for.
Is the reason that he is eating like a total freak? This was immediately when they they he's this scene with the tray line. I've been thinking about it a lot. Is it is he eating like that because in that moment it is his any and he hasn't gotten to eat like food like that. Is this a reiggration thing or is it just Mark being like he's losing it?
I think Mark is just I think Mark has been. I think both Marks are so they both have very interestingly, very intense like missions that they are on, and I think both Marks are ignoring eating as one does when one is obsessed with something.
I like that, And.
So he's eating like a total freaking Guess who sits down a couple of table is the way it's Helena Egan, She's crazy, comes over, believe this, with the look in her eye like I know a secret that you don't know, which is my fun. You're idy and I know a lot about you. And so she comes over and it's very flirty yeah from her, in.
A weird Definitely. I love the way you pose it in your recap. You literally wrote the words like she's acting like the cat that ate the Canary. Yeah, like she is full on so happy and smug and it's power play. Yeah, that big power play. And also like there is Mark's energy even though he is not, you know, outwardly flirting with her, there is like a weird like hate fucking energy between them, Like yeah, he he is.
There's something there that is interesting him about her and he's kind of wondering why is she there and the attraction is there now? But she also reveals something that kind of touching on what we said earlier. The next thing she says to him where she's kind of like, hey, I'm sorry about the era that happened with the OTC. And then she says from the other evening, which means that to the outis the OTC happened a few days ago, But to the innies they say it was six months ago.
So now is time translating? Does that mean that if you are an inny a day in severance like for twenty four hours for an OUTI actually feels like a month for you, two months for you, and they're getting more work out of you more exploitation. I'm very interested in the inny Auti timing of it all because I think that Burt and Ibes and Field also touch on something that could.
We're going to get to that very touch on that too.
So Yeah, she apologizes for the overtime contingency thing, which was when Lumen, because of an emergency situation quote unquote, needed to activate any Mark outside of Lumen from this was earlier in the season, and she's like, you know, it must have been so traumatic for you to know what was going on, and this on top of losing your wife, and he she purposefully mispronounces Mark's wife's name as Harry Hanner and he corrects her Gemma, and then
he begins coughing, and he's like, I gotta go, and he does. There is a vibe from him like I recognize you somehow, some other way, which Helena is clearly looking for. She's looking for that. Do you are you responding to me on an emotional level beyond what you Yeah, beyond what Audie. Mark is aware of and what he knows. He raises home this has spurred something in him, and we see when he gets home he's very eager to
agree to Regabi's proposal mister Drummond. Meanwhile, again one of the four tempers Find Stuff Finding finds interesting stuff in Irvin's home, including a what appears to be a very comprehensive list of severed employees and dates next to the names and places, saying were they severed here? Were they severed on this date? Very interesting notes in the margins.
I'm sure people, you know, I know that people are pouring through this, and I'm sure that we're gonna be referencing this document later later on this season, Back at the Weird Dinner, Bird explains the meaning of their nickname Attila for each other. It means that, you know, they used to call each other Hunhun this, Han Han, Han that, and then it eventually evolved into Attila like Attila the hun unbelievable, like famous Barbarian who who who brought down the who brought down Rome?
Yeah, and so just like an unbelievably good bit of writing from the team here, because that's such a specific but it feels very lived in feeling, it's very very lived in this kind of idea that you guys could create this but obviously, seeing as it's also the title of the episode, we can probably assume that the Zach story has more to it and is going to be yeah, going to be important.
Attila the Hunt, by the way, was a central figure in conquering a lot of Europe and was there doing stuff when the Roman Empire finally and irrevocably fell. So it's this feels like an important reference to your point. Now, Bert explained extremely feels explains that, oh, yeah, this happened twenty years ago. Oh, this this moment when we yeah, when we when this exchange happened, and when we came
up with this nickname. Irving quickly puts the timeline together and the first Severed office officially opened twelve years ago. So that's interesting. That's before. How does that work? Bert quickly moves on to another let's.
Move on to twelve years. Yeah, we just get mixed, see the timing. Yeah.
Fields meanwhile wants to know cut and cutting straight to the heart of it. Do you think Bert and Irving ever sucked it work?
Yeah? He's like, what do you think?
What do you think? And he feels like he has the right to ask, and I actually think that he kind of he probably because.
He also poses it. I think this says a lot about Fields. He's like, you guys might have had unprotected sex, and he's like, and I need to know if that happened, Like, and he's the wrong that's but he also that's a concern. But he also follows it up with what I think. I'm very intrigued by this character of Fields because he also follows it up and he's like, I believe that innis deserve to experience love. So so whatever you guys experienced was magical and you deserved it, and I'm not
mad about it. And I was like, WHOA, Okay, that's very empathetic. But I also can't get I can't get a grip on this Field's butt situation. I don't know if it's true or if they're using it to try and manipulate Irving because they're worried about what he knows.
Well bert Well Field saying that that he believes that he's deserved love to experience love, tells us that that is a debate in this world exactly the personhood, the level of personhood, and the kinds of experiences where they should have enriching experiences are not when they are severed. It's very interesting. So yeah, Field is essentially saying, listen, I'm not upset about it, but I do want to know, like if I think in sex back at Home, Mark
tells Regabi, Okay, let's flow the chip. Let's see it, right, which is like, yeah, it is. We watch it happen. It's super gross. We look at the hole in his head shelves red body horror.
For severance, we don't often get a lot of this. It's like a big hole.
It's a big hole about the size of like a drill, like the hole you would drill into a wall.
I run, I'm that's what I'm also wondering about the severance process, and now that you've mentioned it, being like, is it rehab? Is it like we're talking about, is it prison? The hole was like so big. I was like, this is not. This doesn't look like it was well done. Like it's not the like keyhole brain surgery that they do nowadays, where they can put like a you know,
a stent made of titanium in your brain. They could have done that with the chip, but in this world, they just drill a fucking hole in the back of your head and shove that chip inside. Like that makes me think it's not necessarily for for inverted commas normal like Laura abiding citizens.
Right, this is a very very invasive procedure. And also we're just letting Regatti do this, like it's clucking crazy to watch it happen, Like what are you doing?
She is also just like injecting stuff directly into his brain, which I just think it's just liquid vision.
And I guess the idea is you're you're this flooding the chip means you are surrounding the chip with liquid that will stop it from broadcasting whatever severance signal is being used, and therefore remove the Glasgow block so it starts happening right away, like the walls start breaking down. Marcus having a really really bad time immediately, Like it is clearly incredibly uncomfortable and disorienting and maybe even like
pretty painful. You know, he is seeing recent events such as his Inny having sex with Helene with Helly in the office, and that is intercut with it him seeing his wife.
Yeah, like Gemma is there, and it's like it definitely feels even though it's not going, it doesn't feel like it's going particularly well, it does feel like reintegration may actually have worked. The Mark this time from what we're.
Seeing, it's it's who knows stuff is happening. He when he sees his wife, he jerks back from the apparatus and Recody's like, you can't move your head that fast, like you don't do that, And well you should have said that, by the way, before we started this.
Oh you could have just like you know, strapped his head to this.
Yeah, why is his head strapped down? Like why is it just like free? Anyway, She's not a good doctor.
I'm sorry to say this.
There's a knock at the door and where God is like ignore it, which is like, yeah, ignore it. And again, more stuff that we should have talked about before we started this process, like we can't be interrupted, like it should have been a big talk. Anyway, Mark's like I gotta go say so he goes and it's his sister Devin, and like crazy, foolishly, Mark lets her in and he's trying to act normal. She's like, well, listen, you know, we're doing this whole corporate espionage thing and I'm like
very fired up about it. And he's like, just like, forget the corporate espionage mission. I've got something else going on on my own on the side and I can't tell you about it, And for the first time she looks at him and she's realizing, like, you look like shit, Like what are you doing? And the continuing bad symptoms for reintegration are happening, and he collapses hemorrhaging clearly like foam coming in his mouth, hits his head on the floor,
which can't be good. Regattaga emerges from the garage and is like, don't touch him, and Devin like, who the fucker you? Yeah, And if not for plot Armor, I'd be like fuck Marks might die like yeah, And by the way, let me just say this also, I would have the highest respect for Severance. If they actually killed Mark me, I would be like, big balls, Wow, I respect this show.
I would be so interested in what that would look like, especially with the notion of heaven and hell they grow up in this episode. Does any Marks still exist within the world of Severance. Then we would kind of know a lot more about what the space really is and whether it's like a physical space or all. Yeah, I'm very interested. I agree with you, pla ama. But if they really.
Did kill this, if they did it, they kill.
Them, that would be unbelievable.
I mean it would be like a Ned Stark dying level move, which we know South Game turns to become one of the most set up. Yeah, so who knows. Like I would just I would respect it. I would think it was an respect an insanely dangerous move, but I would really respect.
There's also so many brilliant characters at this point that I love Adam Scott. I think Mark is a great character. I'd love this stuff with Mark and Helena. But if they did want to go that route, they have set up enough interesting people to take on the rest completely obseverance.
Bert sees Irving out of his home and immediately tries to do damage control over fields his twenty years remark. He's like, no, no, no, no, He's yeah, he got it. He got his dates mixed up, and that can't be because, of course we all understand that severance didn't exist then, so we kind of that interaction could not have happened. Then does Audy Irving by it? I get the sense that he does not fully buy it.
I don't think so either. I think that as much as I think as much as but is trying to kind of smooth things over, I think Irving is also trying to smooth over the fact that he now has heard something.
Clue, Yeah, he heard something important.
Yeah, and he has like his Fields was a little bit drunk, like he was a little bit loose. Lips sink ships. And I think Irving and But are both now in this interaction kind of trying to make each other like, no, we didn't you know, we didn't do anything. Everything's good. We're still flirtatious, like, but obviously I think they both are now worried about what the other one knows.
There's that interesting you mentioned it. They can They flirt pretty heavily at the door. Irving is like, we should have dinner again, and Bert is like, you mean with Fields or without? And he's like, oh yeah, with Fields that'd be great. But you know, like in any kind of way, yeah, you know, Irving says, and Bert is like, oh okay, and I love this because it works on
There's several different layers of things going on here. One, yeah, maybe there is an attraction Audi Bert Audi Irving continuing the chemistry they had inside that would make a lot of sense, and there is that energy. But also Irving, we know, has his own investigation going on. He's been conversing with someone mystery personal and I feel like to our previous conversation, Oh that twenty year remark was interesting.
There's more here than meets the eye. This couple, and Bert specifically has maybe been involved with Lumen and Severance for much much longer than people know then the public timeline of Severance would suggest. And so maybe there's more here and Bert. The look that Bert has when Irving walks away is like, oh, maybe we might have to watch this guy. Yeah, suspicious a little bit.
That's it now is kind of like, Okay, I'm suspicious and that is episode six. So let's tap in super producer Joel Monique and we'll do some talking about theories where we think the show is going to go in the last four episodes.
Right after this break and we're back. What was that? What was that?
We know, we were just talking. I'm just blacked out and then I'm backed out, but we're still a conscience. Yeah, I love Joell.
What Yeah?
What what are the what are the headlines for you after this episode to talk about?
Okay, first I want to tap into this time situation. They do something You're so interesting in this episode where you guys touched on it brief. But when Mark gets his chip flooded, at first we sort of think we're in time with him, and then we jump out.
There, actually, wait, this is the pre flood you mean, why when he's just like hooked up to the stuff and Ragobby And by the way, that looks like it might have been the first procedure, the initial integration procedure, not which happened you know, two episodes so three episodes ago now, So like it looks you're right, the times
are all mixed up. I also kind of felt like episodes one and two and even three suggested that we're watching stuff out of order anyway, continue, sorry to break your chain of thought.
No, no, no, that's that's perfect. That's exactly what I'm trying to lean into, is like, and especially if we think about season one, right, we're constantly getting Mark going to work and coming back. And I think Severance has, to Jason's point at the top about like, listen, both can't survive.
Have to be one who can.
Yeah, I wonder if it's not a Lumine thing, if it's just a Severance thing, that's hard time, like what.
I mean, like lumin didn't intentionally make it that way. That's just a side effect of severance is experiencing time differently. I think that makes a lot of sense because also when Mark was having all those memories, I felt like his brain couldn't comprehend having the Innian out He's experience at the same time because they experienced time so differently. So what you can't be in the moment that the Innie is experiencing if for them a minute is two hours,
because you're experiencing way too much. So I'm very interested to see where that goes. I also want to bring up something, Joelle, that you said pre production, which is it is Helena slash Helly pregnant Joelle, who is the baby baby? Who's the baby's mom in that case? Go for it, Joel, because this is crazy.
I have too many theories that I can't really like. This show leaves you in such a nebulous space that I feel uncomfortable planting steaks in theories. But I have a feeling that perhaps we're getting a lot of Jesus analogies right. We technically could have had a pregnant virgin if he got pregnant, the if Helly got pregnant when Helena was having sex with any Mark, then technically we have a pregnant virgin.
And oh, that's such a good point because.
We had a baby keeping pregnant.
But she hadn't have had sex at that point. Wow.
And in the opening credits, you know, which we know, they give the artist that designs those opening credits the show basically so he knows what's in the show.
And then we did get weird baby oving at the beginning of this episode, and that was very creepy. Also, I think there's something very interesting about that potential with the idea that Miss Swang could be Mark's child, could or could be Gemma's child not with Mark. Also, Okay, so I'm going to tell you a wild theory that I saw in office. See what you guys think about this. They because this could kind of fit into your This
could kind of fit into your baby situation. You are in the discord, there was a lot of chat about a theory where the reason they're all cult Winter Tide, you know, Cold Harbor, is that they have Walt Disney urban legend style. Kia's brain is like frozen somewhere in Yeah, and then the idea is to find the right person to put the brain in so he can come back to life. And so you're severing people to try and see who would be the most easy to implant his
brain in. Maybe that's why they think Mark is so good at it, because they're feeling like whatever the work he's doing, whatever the refining is, looks like that having a baby that is an egan that they could then put, you know, the brain into, I think would fit very much into that specific theory. I love how out there
that one is. It's very much fits in with this the idea of kind of like American capitalism as we know it because that Walt Disney myth was like such a big part of the lore of Disney for so long, So I think that's really interesting but also extra body horror ish totally.
And it's been winter the whole time we've been here, and we're not sure how long we've been here, so maybe it's just a normal winter, but maybe it's there far up north and that it really needs to be cold. I love the idea of linking it back to well because that's just hilarious. Also, we have to talk about Attilla just a little bit, a little bit of a tilla yes, there is, And I'm sorry, I'm not a historian. So maybe one of you knows. Did Attila die of a nosebleed?
Wow? I would love that, But I'm assuming he died of a of a horrific in a horrific war. Maybe, but let's let's double check.
He was reading earlier while you guys are researching. Was that until he died in his bed on his wedding night of a nosebleed?
Wow?
So we have a nosebleed in this episode.
I'm learning a lot from you guys, and I always love that too. That's there's no way that's a coincidence, right specific, That's we're.
Talking about weddings and relationships and people together. There's sort of a betrayal some people think until his wife killed him again. I am deeply out of my comfort zone history wise, so feel free to correct me, folks. But this idea of yeah, they I keep coming back to this episode is like partner betrayal and isolation. We're seeing so much like genuine like love and affection, but also
from the same people, icy hurtful distances here. And when I link that to Milcheck and his scene and his deep isolation, I don't know if did you guys notice that they had a fake mil Chick in the foreground and it's like a the mirror is just a window. The actor that plays Milchick is facing the camera, so you're not looking at his reflection, and the actor is looking directly.
At the terminator. The terminator to that part.
I love that.
That part, and I think for me, there's something so disturbing because there isn't that sheen of glass in front of him. You get it almost as like he's performing this to the camera and it's so deeply isolating and lonely. He's got that. I know it's spinning off a little bit, but he'sid this iceberg above his desk, and I was just kind of moved by the way. So far, in difference we've spent a lot of time with this is a group of people who've become like family, who have
decided to work together. We've seen them dashed apart throughout this season so far, and to comment sort of the center apex because I think the four episodes left for six in so we're about in the middle. To not only have them spread apart, but to have them having to go through their journeys and isolated spaces is really interesting to me, and I wonder if it's part of Luman's plan to as far as like, we haven't seen
them doing a lot of numbers yet. I wonder if that part's over and if we move past it is like numbers, then we need to get like a psychological kind of trigger, and in order to do that, you can't have that group there. It's all like teases the face it people.
Also's really interesting to look at how like mill Chick, the way that they are isolating is like true isolation, whereas the others that kind of trying to distract them with relationships or friendships and trying to kind of spread them out. But Melchick's is about you are truly alone, like you don't know your purpose. You're being critique that every space. I think it's a I'm very interested to see where Melchicks.
My favorite theory is that they're setting Melchick up to fail because companies often hire either people of color or women when are sketchy and they're like, maybe this will save us, and when it doesn't, they're like, well we tried it.
Yeah. An escapegoat and a thing that comes out.
That is interesting. It makes me think of one of the things I've been thinking of a lot is Helene's relationship to the board. She's clearly on the outside. She presents herself to Mark in this episode, I'm basically the boss of the company. She's not. She's not calling the shots at all. She's not seemingly able to contact her dad at all or get a communicated with him in
any kind of way. There's several barriers between that between her and him, and she was not able to say, well, I'm not going back in as as helly, Like she is being asked to do things seemingly because either she needs to prove herself or the sense I kind of get is that she is disappointed or fucked up in the past and now has to do this in order to.
Yeah, some kind of a time company.
And it's all of that. What you said, Joelle really makes me think of what everyone's relationship is to the company and why they're doing their thing. Like if we know, we understand that Mark is very important to whatever the plan they have at the same time, that would seem to suggest that, like, well, why would you set up Miltchik to fail? If this is so important, and in fact, why would you even put him in charge of this project when you kind of don't believe in like his methods exact.
So all of this.
Is like what is happening? Like why do that? And the scene with Miltchik looking into the mirror, which we now know is not a mirror is also suggests that he's putting pressure on himself because he's under a timeline of his own that he needs to work, like it's not just about getting this right, it's about growing personal growth whatever that means, Like he needs to use this time to grow as a person, whatever that means to him.
I think that that's really interesting too, because if we look at it from the you know, inverted Comma's rehabilitation stance or the potential like prison aspect of it, the idea that every you know, Mark just gets he's exploring what's going on, and Helene is trying to find the truth.
But all mil Chick, like a black employee, is worried about is like proving his personal growth and proving that he has grown enough to move to the next level, which I think is like, you know, could depending on which route they go, could end up being like a very sad story about.
Like this is personal mirror or specifically and like.
Who gets who gets to, you know, get an early leave from prison, who gets to live outside of prison?
Who gets to well, Like they replace him with a child, right, and then that child is constantly an aggressor toward him and sort of keeping him in line.
There's there's a lot of.
To grow as an adult, but they have put a child in his place, like you are you don't even need an adult to do your job.
There's just a level of dehumanization, like you just start with the your the words you use are too large for whom everyone seems to understand, Miltchik.
That's why I feel like there's there's a turn coming where Milchik is going to side with our innies at some like praying, I think that's coming. I will say, you know, this is also fascinating to think about, and it makes me wonder more about time, Like I've touched on it before, but and I haven't seen comments saying specifically that Miltchik is not severed. I don't know if they've addressed it. And I don't think he's severed in
a typical kind of way. But one wonders if as I mentioned, like he's not severed for like five years, Like he didn't sign a five year severed three.
Month saw something, and he has to get whatever he's doing done.
Yeah, like what so what is that about? Because it seems like he is under the gun in some kind of way. Any other issues and things you want to talk about, Joelle?
Okay, two things very quickly.
Yeah. I was going to say, who's but Joel, that.
Is the question. Let's get into Bert very quickly. Okay. So we have this great line, uh from Bird's partner where it's like, you know, twenty years ago, I remember it like yesterday, but it's like you're drunk again. Here we have like potential alcohol problems. Here we have possible like reintegration. Bert, I really want to talk to you. So the internet is divided. Some people are not willing
to believe that Bert is a baddie. Some people are like, what kind of person sinisterly follows you in a car a battie? Like the visual guy, he's a baddie. But yeah, I'm really interested in what the show is saying about people who on the outside are interingly cruel and one of the inside are giant sweethearts. It's very interesting because
Helena Helly two totally different people. Helena outside has to be cold, we think for whatever reason, We're not sure, but she has her deviances up, she's not fully in control. But inside she's just like soft, strong leader with a big heart who's never cruel, as Irving said. And then you know, I think everyone loved Burt inside. He's just a guy who loves art and it was brave enough
to go into another department. And I think the show is really leaning into this idea of like what if you were just sort of allowed to be in a space and craft and create And we're constantly sort of affirmed in that way, could you be soft without literally all of the other pressures in the world. And it's not contradicting itself, but challenging that with what we're seeing with the family coming in and so I'm really interesting, like what says about people?
Okay, so that aside, No, I think Bird is a baddie. I mean, like that clearly they're coordinating with Lumen to allow Luman to go into Irving stuff like.
Yeah, exactly, Like I I think that I think that whatever the reality of bur is inside where he can just be the person he wants to be. I think that the outside version of Burt for whatever reason, And this could be very interesting looking at a kind of like nature nurture, like what leads people to criminality, what leads people to badness, what leads you know, as they say, I'm wicked like? Is wickedness like born? Or is it
thrust upon us? And I wonder if there's something like that with Butt where his outside just can't escape that version of himself even while his any really did you know, love Irving and there was clearly a connection.
He has a desire to go to heaven with an acknowledgment that he is not a good person exactly.
It's very he's like.
Cheating the system by I can't wait to get in more. Finally, yeah, sorry, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, I just go. There's a really interesting color theory that I found from Gillian Quinn who writes on Pure Wow, where revelue are meant to represent an ease and Audi's and that when you see purple, when you see them come together, that that is a severed person alia. Shawkat's character wore a purple
dress and she had very interesting questions. You know. It seems in her questions where we're like, oh, what does the air feel like? Like she didn't know, but also could that have been an act?
I don't know, So she's like asking what people know more than that. Yeah, I think that's that part.
That part and irving at one point where it's red and blue suspenders. The color theory is very intense. Sometimes it's about blended colors, sometimes about seeing two colors together. When Pete dies, he's in a red and blue striped bathrobe and he dies in a haze of red and blue lights, and I think it's just really interesting. And the purple in the room where they first have sex, right, and it's also there when Mark gets back and he's running around the halls, we see the hints of purple there.
And so I just fans, please if you have more. There's something about green to you that I couldn't quite follow. I was like, okay to me, I want to learn more about.
The Yeah, Jillian Quinn has been doing this throughout the season. It's really interesting. And one of the other things she brings up is like different colors for the different tempers, which seems to also play in to this episode. But yeah, I love this kind of stuff. It's what I live for. If we have color theory fans in the discord, please expand on this because I think this stuff's so interesting.
One thing about the twenty year timeline. Twenty years, yes you whatever, yes, whatever the case. Woman's been doing this a long time. Mark says several episodes ago to Helle, like they're smarter than us. How can we fight them? I think the inquisitiveness of Innis, They're penchant for investigating the mysteries of their circumstances is not new. This is not the first time they've seen this. They see it all the fucking time, and so they have things built
into the system to control this energy. They I'm betting put little mysteries in because they are understand the innies need this stuff.
Or the other side that I would one day is is whatever the work that Innis are meant to be doing actually about solving the mysteries, Like those mysteries are actually going to lead Loom into whatever they want. I think that there's something like it seems like it draws everyone in in a way that refining doesn't, I.
Think, and I just feel like twenty you know, either twenty or twelve years into this process. It's not the first time that you have encountered inquisitive innis who want to know more about the outside world and want to know more about like what it is they're doing in the circumstances that they find themselves in. So I think the contral role goes deeper and is more extensive than we think. And I think that Lumen understands this, this instinct that in he's have to want to know more.
And I think they built just like the Lumen offices themselves. They built like a little maze that they can run around in that they can and so I feel like it's like the you know, the Bert thing, the Irving investigation. I feel like Bert is probably an early version of the types of control personnel that they would have in there, the types of mysteries that they would have, and maybe he's ran his course and so they had to get rid of him and and they move him, you know,
just fire him and move him outside. And whatever Burt is doing, excuse me, whatever Irving is doing, whatever investigations he has, play into this extensive control as well. Because again I think that Lumen is not. The MDR crew has not. I don't believe that they are true have truly been surprised by this kind of like mini uprising that they're seeing. There's no way twelve.
You're gonna say, even if it's a decade or two decades, there's no way. This is the first Innis who've ever been like, oh, this kind of sucks, like yeah, twenty four miles a day.
Like, so, I I feel like there's clues in things that Lumen themselves have put in. They make it purposefully mysterious in a way because they want them to scratch that itch so they don't feel whatever.
Yeah, yeah, like the belly but exactly it's not shutting that kind of stuff down and letting it fester. So it definitely seems like and it makes sense if I can occupy your mind with right things that I can control what you're doing both while you think you're focused on this company and when you think you're not. Yeah, yeah, this is all gonna try to be elaborate, uh loing to the rat race, and I am going to be
so tickled. This is very funny and doug and thought it can tell I just I really love this show.
That's great, it's really good.
So much.
Well, we're going to continue, of course our ongoing UH coverage of Severance season two, and in the next few episodes of Extra Vision, we're diving into recaps of the Daredevil seasons on Netflix, with a season one recap dropping this Thursday, and our season two and three recaps are dropping next week. And of course, UH you'll see us for news this coming weekend. And that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening, Joelle, thanks for joining us.
Bye x.
Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Coleman.
Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
All produces are Common, Laurent Dean, Jonathan and Fay Wack.
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi are Discord moderator