Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for Deadpool and Wolverines, various comic book appearances and team ups with each other and with other characters, both in their own titles and guest appearances, So be warned, be warned to be talking about that stuff. Hello, my name is Jasonncepcion.
And I'm Rosday Night, and welcome back to X.
Ray Visions week long coverage of all things Pool that's dead and Wolverine. Wilburne's in that. Don't forget mister Logan. We're dropping episodes every single day leading up to the release of Deadpool and Wolverine, covering everything from both characters comics origins, to the long history of their respective film adaptations.
In today's episode, it's a big, chunky omnibus, and we're joined by Marvel Comics write Pretty Chibba to dive into some of our favorite Deadpool and Wolverine team ups and face offs in the Marvel Comics canon.
Him.
Hey, it's so good to have you on the show.
It's awesome. Let's get into it all right. Before we get started, let's talk about what we think makes a good Deadpool collab, a good Deadpool story, and a good Deadpool team up. Pretty Any thoughts, yeah?
Pretty.
I think having an understanding of balance is really important with Deadpool because Deadpool can so easily He's so loud but bastic. There's so many tricks you can use while you're writing him that he could so easily overwhelm the narrative. So you need to be able to like pull back on that, which can be really hard when you're writing such a fun character. So I feel like balance is really important so both characters get to shine.
M h, Yeah, I definitely. I think that you're onto something there. I think also, I am very much of the mindset of like, I do love that straight man Deadpool kind of combo. I think it really works. I think that's why specifically people enjoy Logan and Deadpool, because Logan's your cranky guy and he doesn't really you know. Especially I think with X Men ninety seven we've really gotten to see that side of him again, and I
think that version is what works so well. I also think the balance is so key because you need Deadpool to overwhelm the character in an interpersonal level, but not overwhelm the reader exactly. So I'm thinking about how, like, you know, Deadpool loves Spider Man, and he's just constantly overwhelming Peter.
Parker with his crush and with his love and.
And we've kind of seen touches of that in the trailer where he's overwhelming Wolverine with his need for him to be the best hero you've ever had. But you've got to keep it so he doesn't just become annoying. I think, Jason, what about you.
No, I think that's exactly right. I feel very much the same way. Full disclosure, I'm not a huge Deadpool guy. I have never really taken to his solo titles. But Deadpool when that balance is hit and you'll see that from my picks today, when you really hit that balance with Deadpool, of him working together with other characters, I think there's it's kind of magical. And to me, what makes Deadpool fun but also difficult to balance is, you know,
in comics, stakes are always a problem. You're talking about the media. Everybody comes back, nobody ever comes back right, everybody does right, and those that problem is exacerbated with a character like Deadpool who cannot die seemingly no matter what you do, and see that in the movies. But I think What's interesting is the steaks with Deadpool and with any satire are actually like personal to whoever you know, whoever is reading or watching, and the stakes are this
because you know, Deadpool poses the question. The satire of Deadpool poses the question of how dumb are you willing to admit that comics are and still like them and still like them? And the steaks are what if Deadpool makes you feel like this is this entire exercise is actually too dumb and you walk away? So you've got to the balance there is can I make fun of
the thing I love and still love it? And when Deadpool hits that balance, when the creators hit that balance, it's particularly in a team context, it's really it's really really cool. So I can't wait to talk about some of our favorite team ups. Who wants to start? Who wants to start throwing at a favorite deadpook?
Pretty? Do you have a favorite one to start with?
I do, and it's on.
You know, it's funny.
When I was thinking about this, obviously in the lead up to this recording, and the first one that came to mind is not sort of your stereotypical funny like viral Deadpool team up. It was Uncanny X Force. The remember it's one of my favorite books. It's so dark, but that I think is a testament to Deadpool as a character who can't exist in that space as well and be a little bit more on the darker, like horror side of things.
Like I was.
Remembering, I was like that scene where he's like feeding archangel, like leaning over him, and I guess we can spoil her, but he's like, you know, trying to help him survive or like whatever it is, and it's horrific, but it's still Deadpool, so there is this like sort of funny level to it. It's extremely unsavory, we'll say.
Test Yes, I think that's a great pick because also, like you know, the the right era of that comic is someone who in the past. You know, I've critique some of his other comics, but I do have to say, when I was revisiting this stuff, I do think that's one of the best X Men titles that we've ever gotten. It's it's so good, it's so interesting.
It's so weird. It's so weird, weird in a.
Way that it feels like again, like some of the best of this stuff, it's weird in a way that feels in conversation with like what you talk about the comic book shop, like what would happen in these scenarios, Like what's the worst, possible, creepiest, weirdest version of like an ex team and what would happen on it? And I just think this is like not to hype him up too much, but I mean it is almost as good as like a Grant Morrison New.
X Men, Like I think it is that. I think it has that.
Much quality and I think that's a really great pick. And I love that pic because I also feel like it's if you read that, like our disc what is really active. If people listen to this and they go out and read that, it's going to be such a different experience from all the other books that we recommend to you today.
Let's start off strong, Yeah, Rosie won you go next?
Okay, So I'm going to go for if you like Deadpool in the movies and you're like this guy, like when did he really start being like that? Because it's definitely not from like his first appearance, you know, in like in your kind of your New Mutants.
Name, He's supposed to be like cool at first, he was definitely supposed.
To be cool so boring though, who wants that?
One of my favorite things that Aaron, our super producer, picked out. So he was created by you know, Fabian Ncenza and Rob Leifeld, in which I'm sure Rob would hate it if he had me put it that way round, but sorry, And.
It's he was basically.
Rob's version of like he wanted to do like Spider Man, but with guns and swords, yes, you know, And it's like, I think that that is really what he was in those early days. But I think if you want to read a Deadpool as you know him now, I really think it's Daniel Way's Deadpool run with like Steve Dylon legendary,
Paca Medina legendary or not. That is where he gets his third voice, which is basically kind of like his Devil on his shoulder voice, and they argue with each other and they talk to each other and it's constantly breaking the fourth wall and it's totally silly, and honestly, to a lot of people who haven't read a lot of Deadpool comics, this one doesn't necessarily have that balance. Like by the end of reading this, you might be like Deadpool is so annoying, but.
It does feature Wolverine. There were Wolverine.
Issues that the collections pull in. You get to see that kind of original close to the first time. But I'll recommend that one later. But I just think this is a really important Deadpool text. Like when I used to work in the comic book shop, this was the one where when people came in and they said, I want to read Deadpool, I love the video game, or I'm really excited for the movie. This was always the one where I'd say, I think this is where Deadpool gains his his voice.
As we know him now.
Like when you read these comics, it feels like this is what Ryan Reynolds is riffing on, and we do get some good Wolverine Deadpool moments in that too.
Yeah, that's actually this was on my list as well,
specifically the X Men, like three. I think it's three issues run somewhere in the middle there, because you know we're saying earlier that Wolverine is often the straight man, but I think he what's so great about the partnership between Deadpool and Wolverine is he can sort of like sync to Deadpool's level because it's Wolverine, right and in this book, I love it because Cyclops is so angry, so angry, and I love when Cyclops is angry and like Wolverine just sort of being there as the voice
of like, ah, man, we gotta it's Deadpool, like relaxed, we just got to do it. It's so wonderful.
I also guess, like something we didn't really talk about is, you know, these are two characters who are immortal and kind of different or almost near immortal in kind of different ways. So I do think I like that note that you say about Wolverine can lower himself to dead pull at that point, and I think.
Sometimes it's probably because he's just bored of.
Being alive for so long, so he's probably actually like really glad that there's someone who can just make a dick joke or like do something stupid, like I think Logan's probably been very bored of being the sensible one.
I completely agree. And there's also like a wonderful any good Wolverine and Deadpool story has like a Tom and Jury feel to it. Yes, and this story absolutely this is very looney, chopping off each other's like arms instead of stabbing each other all the time, and like decapitating each other, like shoving their swords slash claws to each other's brains.
Like and it feels very like an influence of what we've seen on the trailers so far, where like the two of them are just for Wolverine doesn't want to team up with him, so he's just like, I'm just gonna like put my clawes through you, like Tea was like, give me a hand, and he's just like stabs him in the side.
So I think you're right, we're channeling.
That Looney Tunes energy for sure. Jason, what about you?
Well, first, I want to shout out on Kenny X Force, which I absolutely adored when it was out. I think the lineup Wolverine, Archangel, Deadpool, Santomex six, it's so so weird. It was just delightful to see Phantom X get like a starring role, like he's back in the mix. Incredible, one of the weirdest characters ever invented. So I just wonder so much, so wonderful family drama, and I love that era. I love the Dad era of Wolverine has
been really fun to explore. I'm going to start with again, Uh, you know, my bias is towards Deadpool in a kind of larger team context. So I'm going to go with the Messiah War crossover kind of referenced in Deadpool too.
And you hear Cable talk about Hope Hope being Hope Summers the mutant Messiah, and in this story, Deadpool and X Force and Cable travel to the future to try and save Hope Summers, and it also acts as a clever device to get Hope Summers aged up to the to her early adulthood so she could actually start being in fights and not be a little kid anymore. But it has spoiler one of my favorite Deadpool stunts, which is Deadpool trapped in a freezer for eight hundred years.
So everybody has time trivel devices allows them to jump to the future, right, but they only have a limited number of them, so only some of them can jump to the future. So Deadpool is like, well, I'll just wait. He just sits there hundred years eating himself, like eating and uh, and by the time they get him out, he has gone fully insane, which is only marginally more insane than than he already And it's just one of my favorite little Deadpool bits. So that's I'll start with that one.
That's really good stuff.
Pretty would you like to pick another one? Yeah?
So another one that I really love because I am also a sucker for like bringing the supernatural into a partnership is Wolverine Annual. I wrote this down Wolverine Annual number one. Yeah, like another one where Wolverine is sort of like at Deadpool's level. I just love it because there's this great likely you know, the premises Deadpool's been hired to like assassinate this writer.
Yeah, it's like it's like an ass.
Just like an author. Wolverine's at the author signing to get a book signed quote unquote for Kitty, and Deadpool's hired to assassinate. It's absurd, and the author turns out to be a were wolf and it's this whole thing, but it's Wolverine's like there's something weird and going on, and he just sort of like interrupts the entire thing and they get they've been pulled into like were wolf politics hijinks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so good.
And it's like the funniest thing is this is like really the last bastion of like the extreme nineties, Like the Kava is so extreme, it's like everyone has like fifty muscles on top of muscles.
And even though it is literally.
Most notable because Mark on Drinc home Wall McDaniel decided they were going to do were.
Wolves, the it was just like grudge match with.
Nah.
It's like no, it's like an author signing drama that seems like a well of But this does lead to a question that I wanted to ask you guys, which is like, what is it about those.
Kind of extreme nineties characters and that extreme era and the creators?
Like why does it still resonate with us?
I mean, we're still here, Robert Eifelt still an active creator, Jim Lee obviously like runs DC. You know, what is it about that era that was so kind of powerful and still gets us coming back to these stories?
You know? For me, I think it was there was a level of bomb bast for the for you know, the nineties has been like retroactively criticized somewhat fairly, I think for being like the tasteless version of comics, you know, like oversize everything, oversized guns, fifty oversized kitanas, like all
that stuff. But I think the thing that comes through is there was like an attitude and a no holds barred kind of safeties off of like your creative imagination kind of energy that has in the more corporate version of Big two comics is hard to find.
You know.
It just seemed like really fun and Liefeld and Ncenza like became rock stars off and many others became like rock stars off of the energy they brought to the page. And that feels like an era that for all of its warts and shortcomings. You know, a lot of those creators Liefeld included, who have became stars, would later say decide that they needed to break away from the industry as it existed in order to more adequately feel like
they were compensated for the things they're creating. That said, that creative energy in retrospect feels kind of special, Like you don't see that kind of just pure rough imagination energy just like exploding off the page as much in today's here, like it felt really exciting to open a life felt comic in like nineteen ninety two, Like it
was like, whoa, I've different? What is this? This is not following any of the rules, yes I have, you know, like any of the artistic rules, any of the rules about how you drug characters, any natomy rule, any anatomy rules. But that felt really exciting, and I and and I think there's a nostalgia for that. Pretty what do you think.
I would push back a little bit. Not everything in the nineties worked for me. I think there is like when you have the sort of like you can see the joy someone is bringing to something and the excitement in getting to do something weird and like you said, bumbastic and all these things. I think you see actually a lot of that, at least I'll speak from Marvels, like from a Marvel perspective on Marvel Unlimited.
There a lot of that's true.
You're doing really.
Fun and interesting things in sort of the webtoon format that may not like get to the page, to the printed page. So there is some of that. It's there's so much more now also.
To purst through.
Then you know, it's just sort of exploded in terms of the number of stories being told. So I think that there's so much fun in what in a lot of the books we got in the nineties that you can still find in books happening today if you look for it. And I think that's the key.
I actually think you've touched on something really interesting here, because something that we don't really talk about, right is like, this is the nineties the peak audience for comics, right that are still seen as like teenagers now in that era it's teenage boys, right, That's how they perceive it. But we all know like other people love those comics too.
But I'm thinking about that because pre what you're making, the point off that I think actually connects these two things is that in ya comics now, as we would call them.
That's where a lot of that energy is.
Whether it's unlimited, whether it's like you know, some cool, amazing cartoonists like an Ingo zi Ukazu who he had on recently, like that, when comics are tailored to a teenage audience, there's almost like or a younger reader's audience. There's like a freedom there that you don't have to get as core cap in. And back then it wasn't as specific. They weren't like, oh, they're drawing these comics. But lest we not forget Rob liffeld I think was like nineteen when he started drawing these comics.
You know, they actually were teenagers. Jim Lee was so young.
There's that very famous video that you can watch on YouTube of Jim and Rob and they're with stan Lee on stan Lee's kind of Creators, you know, little chat show that he would do, and they're kind of designing characters and you can just see that these are young people, like brimming with their energy.
So I think that's a really.
Good way of looking at it. Like when comics, there's something about making comics for young people that stopped people being as worried about being.
Like so precise.
You know, I think a lot about Todd McFarland, who I love, who Jimley is probably my top nineties like comics dad, who I love, but like Todd is a very close second.
But I always think about the capes.
Like Todd would draw these ridiculous takes, right, yeah, that were just like no one would ever say.
That is how a cape behaves.
Move like that.
It doesn't move like that, but it doesn't matter because when you're a kid, you're like, that is the coolest cape I've read the scene. That's like the coolest thing I've ever seen. And I think that, you know what, as comics has grown and become like an academic study, you know, the sixties was the first time we had comics in college, but since then it's really now you can study comics most places you have like comics winning
the Pulitzer Prize or being nominated for it. I think that what these comics remind me of is like the fun that you're allowed to have with them when it doesn't have to be like like you said, I think a lot about New Mutants ninety eight, because that was a comic where like in they reprinted it when I was working at the comic bookshop and everyone.
Was like, oh, Rob Eifeld, like he's so rubbish.
She can't draw shoes or whatever, he can't draw feet, And I remember like opening the book and being like, no, I'm sorry, this is like abstract like genius, Like if you look at this, this is actually a really exciting, cool, strange book that is so much more than just like what somebody who's doing like an anatomy YouTube video and saying like this is wrong and kind of there's an energy there. I think that is is kind of like
so powerful. But I'm very glad you picked the Wolverine Annual because anything with wear wolves I'm a big fan of.
Jason.
Yeah, that's a good come on, Jason's an, what's another one of yours?
Well, before I get into it, I just want to say one I think part of what was exciting to me about the nineties artists Life Felt in particular, who amongst whom Life Felt was kind of like the most famous is it felt accessible? As you know, It's like Art Adams. I look at his stuff, I'm like, I will never approach that. I will never ever approach that level of detail, Alan Davis, I will never create such
beautiful like that. Yeah, And then it's like you see Life Felt, and you're like, you know what, I think I could There's a world in which I could imagine myself doing that somehow and there and that was exciting. I think to a lot of people, a lot of young people who are reading comics at the time, who I think, definitely, oh my god, this kind of this looks like a much better version of the stuff like I'm doing on the back of my notebook.
You know.
It was like the Todd McFarland thing you mentioned in McFarland thing. To me, I was the first time I saw McFarland's like amazing Spider Man and like the the wedding like the ridiculous curl acues of like Webb Peter Parker webbing that was like spinning around his hands and it didn't. You've never seen the webbing like that Ornate. I was just like, holy shit, that is the coolest
thing I've ever seen. Yeah, like absolutely, Okay, So my next pick is going to be uh And I think this might be a good one for folks looking for a semi direct comic primer going into Deadpool Wolverine are coming out of it, and that is Deadpool versus old Man logan to thoseeen womited series has a lot of that Tom and Jerry energy, you know, the the mrk with mouth and everybody's favorite veriant of Wolverine who is old and Kent tankeros and killed all his friends.
Somehow more cantankeris than are, somehow much more cantankerous.
Somehow he became more cantankerous.
I mean, mass murdering your friends, will I guess do that to you?
And that does seem like what's gonna happen in the movie. From what we've seen, it seems like he's feeling sad about something.
Yes, they go off on a search for a mysterious Omega mutant. But there's a lot of wonderful high jinks and you know that straight man versus clown kind of dynamic is really evident. And as a limited series, it's not too much. That's for me. With Deadpool, it's like it's just got to be enough.
Oh my gosh, it's you're so right because the reason I was so happy when Joel was like, yeah, he's gonna come, I'm gonna talk about Deadpool verin, I was like, good because you know what my distinct memory of Deadpool is when I was working at the shop, Deadpool books were like so popular that they had done like six.
Of these huge like telephone book omnibuses called Deadpool Classics, and I was like, guys, these are not classics.
Like these are not there's classics.
It's absolutely crazy is a thing.
So this was it.
This was in like twenty sixteen, so some of these books were so close to have just coming out.
But there is so.
Much Deadpool and there's so many different iterations that I love being able to just give people little like tidbits. So I would say, like my another one that I wanted to call out is a wolverine eighty eight, which is the first time that Wolverine and Deadpool actually like fight as Larry Harmer a comic book legend, Adam kuber another legend, and Fabia Laguna another legend.
Just all bangers basically.
But this is really interesting because this was a perennial like as we'd call it, like this is a twenty five cent comic, Like you're finding this in the back issue bin of every place, right if you have this comic now, friends, you're looking at like one hundred dollar comics, So good for you. If you've picked this comic up recently, good because this is like another nineties book that now is seen as this huge thing, has this super sick
I love the cover so much. It's this Adam Kuberck cover where Deir Pull's like super muscly and he's got his arms crossed with the two katanas and he stabbed Wolverine and Wolverine's like his tummy is like all bleeding, his claws are all red. So it's like really over the top but just completely delightful. And it also again feels like this feels like a book that could have been on the set for this because it's like there's
not really any nice introductions. They just start fighting, and there's lots of connections to like Weapon X and some interesting weird like wades ex girlfriend Copycat is in it, and that feels very much in the weird, deep cut stuff that they're kind of into right now. So yeah, very interesting to see how that will come into play.
But that's a great issue that I'm sure is probably just available on Marvel Unlimited, or if you go to a shop where they don't sell lots of cgc's comics, maybe you could still find it for like five books, but if not, I'm sure you can read it online.
But that's a that's their first.
Ever comic book meetup, so it's a nice one to get a little bit of like context of the history of the two boys Preedy.
Do you have a final one?
Well, we talked about the ones that were on my list already, because I also had the old Man logan and Deadpool on my list.
Because it's just.
They're just so it's just I think what you want from this pairing is sort of that cantankerous logan and that just like banana pants Deadpool together on the page, and that's such a perfect example of the two of them. Even if it's you know, au Logan like from that awful, awful Future, it makes it better.
Okay, Jason, I did want to ask you, did you ever play the Deadpool video game? Yeah?
I did a little bit. It was fine.
Yeah, I just I think about a lot because when I was a kid, I remember well, when I was like a younger adult, I remember it coming out and it was like such a huge deal. It definitely had that same energy. And there is apparently I did not play it this far, but there is apparently some good Deadpool Wolverine action in that game, So I'm like, could be something interesting to revisit for fans who want to check it out.
Jason, do you have a dice?
I see an adult that I put it there in my final I put my this is my final pick. And because you mentioned I was kind of on the fence,
what am I going to pick? But because you both shouted out how important horror is and in comics and how cool it is when you cross Deadpool with that carror comic energy, I'm gonna doude Deadpool Team Up number two eighty eight, which honestly, I was shocked that have there been really two hundred and eighty eight issues at start number two eighty eight, and this issue teems the Mark with Mouth up with Bessie the Vampire hell Cow.
Yes, and I'm talking about.
And it's just like a wonderful team up, a fantastic and super weird team up, wonderful cover by Berta Ramos, who I always love, and it's just it's just fun. It's just good, good old Deadpool fun with a wonderful, deep cut character Bessie the hell Cow, whose rivalry and feud with Dracula is ongoing. Bring her back, bring her back, bring.
You know what, someone somewhere is working on bringing her back. I'm sure you know it comics and that love way it is.
And you know, like, I love this pic because I think some of one of the best things about Deadpool that I know people are gonna love about this movie is like you have the different Deadpools, you have Lady Deadpool, you have Dogpool. You know, so Bessie the hell Cow team up works deeply. I'm gonna throw out a last one. It's a cheat because it's not technically a Wolverine comic, but I do think that the Spider Man Slashed Deadpool
by Joe Kelly and Ed McGinnis. Joe Kelly another very thinctive Deadpool writer who really shaped the voice of Deadpool as we know it. This is very much where they're taking the kind of like fun crush, Like.
Is it romantic? Is it not?
Like that had always been a big part of Deadpool's feelings about Spider Man, But this book, they did loads of fun covers. There's like an upside down one that's implicating the upside down kiss. Deadpool is just completely obsessed with Peter Parker and wants to date him and loves how he looks in the suit. And it one not only is a hilarious book, but also I do feel like it is influencing the kind of merchandising and promo we're getting for this movie where they're kind of holding
hands and there's this implicit queerness to it. So and we know that the movies have not been afraid. They've made it clear that Deadpool is bisexual, just like the comics, you know. But I'm very interested to see how else it plays into it, because i do feel like Spider Man Deadpool is the original ship and I'm interested to see if they try and make it a Wolverine Deadpool thing in the movies.
Pre you are like the dream guest. This is like so good, pretty, Thanks so much for joining us.
Where can people find you and your works?
They can find me on social most places at run with Skizzers. They can find my work on my website prethgipper dot com. I have a ton of Marvel comics. If you just look my name up you will find them. The most most recent was the blood Hunt Jubilee one shot that came out last month, and a big Marvel Unlimited thing is coming soon, but I don't think I'm allowed to talk about it.
Excited, Keep your eyes peeled and your eyes tuned, guys.
Well, thank you so much for joining us. That's our episode for today's See You Next Time. Bite x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kenspsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Boot Who's Afar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman and Heidi Our discord moderator,