Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for Selene Songs Materialists, so go and see that before you listen this, or just listen to this so you can understand the divisive discourse around what was supposed to be the summer's biggest rom com.
Hello.
My name is Rosie Night and I'm Joel Monique. Oh hi Joel. So good to have you here, and welcome back to X ray Vision, the podcast where we dive deep, deep deep into your favorite shows.
Movies, comics, and pop culture. Coming to you at iHeart Podcast, where we'll be bringing you at least three episodes a week, plus news news Saturday's News.
In today's episode, we've got a special little double date. We're joined by A Boo and In to break down our feel on Slen Song's divisive new movie Materialists.
Let's let's talk about it, Let's get into it.
Let's introduce our panel, welcoming a super producers, A Boo and Aaron.
Hello. Hello, Hello, how are you feeling guys?
I'm feeling tentatively excited for this conversation.
Yes, I think it's going to be very interesting and very actually equally sided. We're going to have a dueling double date situation and a boo. I believe it's going to be you and Joel versus me and Aaron, Me and Aaron, the controversial take havas as usual. So let's start with the big question here, and we're going to do a little quote from the movie. I'm going to do a good This is going to be my Chris Evans impression. When I see your face, I see wrinkles
and children that look like you. So the big question is, is the materialists a romantic comedy?
Guys A boo, Let's start with you.
I don't know what kind of math y'all were doing watching this movie, but there is romance, there is comedy, So yeah, it's a com okay on.
Your side of boo. But I don't think it's a comedy.
I think it's the satire of a romantic comedy, which I really value and think is like vitally.
Important for the culture right now.
I think if in order to reach romantic comedy uh status to me, you need to be way heavier on the comedy. There are a few light jokes here and there. It's spattered throughout, but they're.
Good jokes and they're fine.
There's I'm not.
Criticizing the jokes that are in there, but the jokes are few and far in between. It's not a jokey movie. The point of the movie is not for you to like it's so funny and charming. It's like the antithesis of the movie, and so it doesn't quite feel the rom com status for me, a genre I'm absolutely obsessed with.
But it does critique the rom com which I really value.
I would say, I do agree.
I actually went into this hoping for the kind of bombastic rom com that I believe that they promised us, and I do.
I love a marketing campaign.
That subverts your expectations, so I get what they were doing. But for me, I wanted the version of the movie where you had the narrator. I wanted the version of the movie where it was more about this kind of interplay between the three of them, and that was more
of a traditional romantic comedy. I think for me, there were some elements, and ironically, I think that something that Selene did really well here is it does feature many of the tropes and trappings of a romantic comedy in unexpected ways, even the negatives in my opinion, Like there is a plot line in this movie that feels very much like it could have come from like a nineties rom com, where we would all be looking back at it and being like.
Why was this included?
But they try and handle it here with more gravitas, And that is a plotline about a sexual assault, and that for me was when it took me straight out the way it was dealt with, the kind of way it was approached.
That took me out of the kind of comedy space. I also feel like.
I was not expecting it, so I think that immediately shifted part of my enjoyment.
Of the movie.
And also another thing, this is kind of funny because we were just talking about the about Friendship and the a twenty four movie with Tim Robinson and Paul Rudd, which is kind of shot and filmed like a Lifetime movie, a kind of psychological thriller. There were moments in this film where I legitimately thought the movie was going to be about Dakota Johnson's character hunting down the guy who sexually assaulted her client.
It's actually she is.
She's outside the movie. She's outside, and she's wearing like a fucking trench coat and a baseball cap, and she's like spying and I'm like, okay, so is this what everyone said when they didn't know what it was gonna like they didn't see the way it was going.
But yeah, I for me, the rom com was not calming enough. Aaron, how did you feel about that specific element of the film.
Yeah, I mean in the press tour, they talked up that this is a rom com. They talked up Selene is so good at doing a new version of a rom com. And I think they could have told this story as a rom com, like there is definitely the beats here, as Joel was saying, it hits a lot of the tropes of a rom com. This could have been in the late nineties. We could have had this exact same story about you know, head versus heart when you're trying to pick a relationship, and I don't.
Think it was. I loved a lot of the moments were very funny.
I think the bridesmaids prancing in as like this like cohesive little unit. Chris Evans' roommates, Chris Evans play was as someone who sees a ton of theater in New York also small theater faction that was incredible. And then like obviously her interactions with every single that she's trying to take with that, and the movie starts off and you think it's gonna be a rom com because of
the like are you single? Give me a call, I'll set you up with someone kind of thing, Like just I thought this was gonna be a nice, easy, romantic comedy, and I don't think it was here.
Can I you actually, Aaron? That really highlights something for me?
Uh, it's the goofy factor that's missing. You need like a good wrong I'll give you be like, uh the wedding singer or like a made Manhattan is not even my favorite Jennifer Lopez.
Yeah, there's no singing sorry with the fringe on top and Ira walks in, which can be comedy and then also an emotional beat. This this didn't bring comedy with the emotional beats.
I would okay boo, I had you had a count it to Aaron, so please share.
Well, really, I have a counter to this whole rom com narrative I you seem to be dissecting. First of all, it sounds like y'all got duped by the marketing I did, especial in a movie that you didn't get. I didn't watch a trailer. I just saw that Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans and Dakota Johnson were in this movie, and I was.
Like, sure, you mean same boat?
And I just randomly went to go see this movie based off of just the poster and a couple of people tweeting about it. I had no idea what how this movie was marketed until I looked it up afterward. I so understandably it seems like it was marketed as a rom com and you go in and you realize.
I will say I did. I did absolutely get duped.
Like when I came out, I had quite a visceral response to this movie.
It just it really wasn't for me.
But when I came out, I was talking to my friends, so I went to go see it with and I was like, guys, we got to find the guy who cut that trailer with the narrator and charge him with fraud because that ship is not the movie that I paid to see.
That's certainly not the movie. But I will say, all of you seem to be basically describing the Notebook, and you realize you can stream that on peacock.
That's not a romantic comedy. It's a romantic tragedy that's more of this kind of movie because it's my favorite. Oh yeah, no, I will say the outcome of this movie is a tragedy in my opinion, for Dakota Johnson's character, who honestly gotta tell you sad, sad story. Guys.
I actually can no longer remember her name, even though I saw this movie like this, Lucy Lucy, oh forgettable, forgettable. But you know me, I love to coach Johnson in my head. I did at the beginning before this.
Okay, we do need to we do need to hash that out later then, yeah, because I thought it ended properly, but apparently you must chill with theiaire.
I don't even think it's about that.
But anyway, let's past to an ad break before it gets too spicy. And when we come back after hopefully some ads for like Grinder or something, then you know, we will come back in the Door Company.
We will come back and discuss the ending and much more.
And we're back and in the middle we were all fighting each other and it was crazy, but we survived. So let's talk about what the movie is really about. With another quote, and this is a Dakota Johnson quote. She kind of just always talks like she's in Madam Webb, so to be like, you know how to do the math?
Don't you too too much inflection? I think she has a lot of inflection, but it's weird inflection.
So you're saying it's more of a like a weird inflection.
You know how to do the math, don't you?
Something like that? But anyway, I could never be to Cota Johnson. She is a queen in my life. I would dream to look at her shoes in this film. She's she's beautiful and crazy and has never ever been poor in her fucking life.
That casting is insane and what were you thinking?
So let's talk about this because I do think a year eight thousand dollars a year in New York, one person and.
Bedroom.
And but let's talk about this aspect because I do feel like, as someone who has been out of the dating game for like a decade, I do feel like maybe this is the side of the movie that did not speak to me that I did not get, which is kind of the movie from a lot of what I've been reading is the movie as a take on the state of modern dating.
So aboo.
You were someone who brought this up like instantly when we were having this conversation, So let's talk about that. Is this a satire on modern dating and the way that people value each other or perceive value in each other?
Yeah?
Absolutely, I think that's ninety percent of what this movie is about, and the other percent is just romcom tropes. Like at the core of this movie, it's exploring the way that modern dating has been shaped and warped by capitalism and the prevalence of apps and just the reprioritization of what people are looking for in partnerships and in connection. Right. Pedro Pascal at one point makes the sales pitch to go to Johnson and says, this is a good investment.
I am rich, I.
Can take care of you, and you are what I'm looking for and a partner, someone who's smart and knows the world and loves me for who I am. I can't find that anywhere else. I have found it in you, So this is just a win win, like let's shake hands, sign on the dotted line, business deal home run. Yeah, and I will say I I too, am not in the game, but what I hear from my perpetually single friends who are out there on the apps, like in the trenches. That's what it's like out there.
It's awful.
People are just like have checklists of things that you have to hit and if you don't, then you get ghosted. And much of the like comedy in this film was actually kind of on the nose, you know, like they have to be six foot, I'm looking for someone.
Who's a little more mature.
Who's a little more mature, you know, seven That was a good.
Like like what I hear about modern dating from friends who are out there, that is literally what it's like like people splitting hairs over two years of age difference.
I'm gonna I'm going to spoil something for you.
Pre apps dating was the same way with different things. It maybe and over here had a very different dating experience than most of us. But I do believe in ten years ago people still had a kind of thing. This person isn't attractive enough, this person isn't tall enough, this person doesn't make enough Money's still.
I guess, but they're not things that you can swipe and filter on an app. I think the way you go about it has dramatically been reshaped by capitalism.
Basically, Okay, Joel, I want to hear your take on this.
I agree with both of you, but in slightly different ways. So yeah, I agree.
The people have always been a little bit picky about who they want to date, Like there's there's a dream most of us having our head of like this is what my ideal partner would be, and you're out looking for that. So I totally agree with that. I think what really has changed is kind of a twofold issue, and it is relying on capitalism. It's a you have social media, and you have.
It's really just the social media aspect.
For me, I think a lot of what people are looking for when they're out dating is like, I want somebody who looks good next to me in a photo. I want somebody who's going to actually like, oh, you don't know. The second thing is that we've been taught to look at ourselves as brands.
You're branding yourself.
So not only are you like using social media as like a platform for yourself to brag your connect with your community or whatever, but there's also this idea that no matter what area of your life you're looking at it, you should understand your brand. How do you come across and dating, what do you bring to the table, Like what are you getting out of this person? And you think about it in your career, you think about in your family, You definitely think about it on your social spaces.
And I think that's what they're really tapping into every time they sit down to have a conversation Dakota Johnathan's character in Peter Pescal's it's really about their brand. What is your brand? How do you plus my brand? How do you how can I plus yours? I see value in your brand? Even their expressions of love are talked about in a business language.
Yeah, that's why I really write. But they don't. There's there's no social media at all in this movie.
But you don't need to understand the I do think it's I do kind of think it's interesting, and to me, I think I love Honestly, you guys are like, I'm wishing that that is the movie I watched, Like, no question, I think what you're talking about is so interesting because also I'm going to say something and I saw a great uh you know Kristin Yunsu, who's a great book.
She calls herself a retired film critic. I think now but she has a letterboxed and on her review, which was two and a half stars, because I was like reading every letter box review after this, I was so interested and she made a great point, and I think this is kind of my issue with the movie as
a whole. It's like, that's all well and good to have those, but like in my mind, I'm thinking, like, Okay, but you have got like three of the most conventionally attractive people on earth, So what kind of statement are you making. I know it's like, oh, it's even hard for them, but like, what is it like if you're fat?
Like what is it like the people they call fat.
In this movie, like multiple times are so small and it doesn't and k Yeah, like k y K on her letterbox, which is like such a good follow her review of it was like, you know the scene with the white woman who only wanted to date white people, she is like, Selene, have you looked at your entire cast?
Like you think you're saying something deep, but your entire main cast is all white people. So I think there is an issue with this film, which is like there are a lot of things that wants to say.
Will also just being like a vibes movie and really like, I don't. I think that it's kind of hard the trappings of what the trappings of what it's trying to say. Also, I'm going to be real, guys, this is a movie about rich people, and yet it tries to be a movie about poor people, or at least people who perceive themselves as poor. And for me, I found that incredibly hard to stomach. Like, I'm gonna be real with you.
If you are thirty five and you meet a really sweet guy who's so nice to you, who's like, I will support your business initiatives, I will give you money, date him. Don't fucking date a guy who is in a fucking lives in a shitty bedroom. Has not changed that who shouted at you in the middle of the street, who screamed at you, who didn't like the fact that you want to go out to eat dinner, Like that's not a good relationship, that's not passion, that's not love.
And I think that those kind of narratives where it's this idea of like you've got to pick the person you're in love with.
It also the guy that you can call when you're going through an awful thing.
She doesn't have any friends. Can I just tell you that guy's friends.
She can call the billionaire that she's going to Italy with and a week can talk to him about the work stress she's going through, But she doesn't. You know, Yeah, that's because at the instinct is to like to go to.
Well, is the instinct to go back to the comfortable thing that you had for five years when you were young that you recognize.
I just I did see like the kind of controversy over this, like broke boy propaganda.
Thing, and I have to say, I have to say I support the girls who are saying that, because I do think there's an element of that to this. But I also just think like it's a very easy thing to be extremely rich, to be making movies and be saying, oh, you know what, you should pick the poor guy. Like, to me, it feels like my restview my review, who's also like a really hot, conventionally attractive guy.
My review was quite I'm not you.
I try not to be like very scathing, but occasionally I have very visceral reactions to movies, and I think this was a visceral reaction movie that I haven't kind of felt since I watched the first Doctor Strange movie, which is like incredibly ablest and like I was like crying in the theater at the end, like what the fuck is going on here?
And uh, and this movie I kind of had a similar thing.
And I'm gonna tell I feel kind of ashamed because I feel like the review is really harsh, but I do stand by it, and I think that even if I worded it differently, it's still it would still be true. But it to me, I watched it and I was like, this is like a hallmark movie for rich New Yorkers who fucked o Kate away at once and twiddle their fucking celine whatever three thousand dollar diamond bracelet, thinking.
Oh, maybe I'd be better off if I'd have gone with like that. Maybe I'd be happier if I was poor, Like.
It's okay, crazy, I have to pull over. We're pulling over, We're pulling over.
Here's this is.
A valid take on movie. I think I see.
How you could watch this film and walk away with this take. And I don't even think it's completely invalid. I do think, okay for good critique poverty in filmmaking The Apartment His Apartment pretty accurate. That painted over light switches, like really tight spaces duty.
Okay, bathroom cabinet that won't close.
Her hair was way too glossy. That's a four hundred dollars hair treatment. There's no way we're getting on a regulars. I don't buy it, but I did, really, But here's what's working for me. It's the setup of the dynamic of these relationships because obviously you date the kind rich dude, especially if you're the kind of person who's like, I don't even know if I'm really like believing in love or having it a lot in my life, Like as a as a lady who's thirty five, I was like,
I vibe with this, and absolutely I'm picking Pagro. This girl's crazy. But the movie has some really interesting things to say about a like love is not a choice really that you're making, right. You make a choice in who you're going to live your life with, but who you fall in love with not necessarily a choice. And I really value this because I think a lot of folks, again, are so clean to their checklist that they tend to miss really great partners staring them in the face. And
I like that they push that narrative. What I also was really intrigued by is like Selene's making a very strong statement at the end. At the end of the movie, Lucy gets a promotion at her job and her boss is like, listen for whatever the fuck you want, I'll back you. So she's not gonna be making no. Eighty k anymore. She could support the two of them, she could be.
Doesn't know she's gonna take the job.
She doesn't know she's gonna take.
But what she has our opportunities, which and possibilities which I think not a lot of women have had over like the course of human history. And to put her in a spot of like, not only did you choose the guy that you were like, you know what, this is what my heart wants. It's not a logical decision. It's not a decision that makes any And they meant that to each other. They're like, this may not make any kind of sense, but we want to try to make this work. She's like, I am the kind of
person who fights in the street. She's not embarrassed about that. She's equal partnerships in that she kind of started the fight.
The fight is her. She was like, I we can walk. I don't want to pay twenty five dollars ship Parking.
I don't have it. You know that, And you're mad that I don't have any money, which isn't fair. You know who I am and whatever.
He's so mad that she wants fancy things and they know, but they also fair the fight.
But that's the These two are equals about the whole movie, which is the thing we often don't get in rong comps. I think rong coms often encourage women to go seek wealthy men, and we ignore a lot of the things that they're not bringing to the table, like emotional maturity and like genuine loved Like oh, well, they have money and they find me attractive, So off we go into the sunset. This movie completely disrupts set. They're like, do you actually have a connection with this person? Do you
want to build a life with them? And most importantly, do you acknowledge what you're sacrificing by choosing to be in a relationship with this person. I think anytime you make a choice, you're closing the door on a lot of other choices. So she makes a very open eyed choice to say, despite all of the shortcomings, I still choose to be with you. I think that to me is like it's a very grounded love story. It's not a love story about getting swept up and chaotic moments
that bring us closer together. It's the love story about choosing to be with a person. And I found like that to me is profoundly deep and important and like a message a lot of.
The girls need to hear.
And I like that she leaves in a space of like, I can make a choice, I can choose to be the breadwinner of this relationship. I love that you act. Like watching you act, even if you're play a shit, I like you. I like that you perceived this. And she leaves enough space for him, and I was like, wow, even though these are not the choices I would have made, Lucy, I appreciate and.
See for your choices. And I really valued the movie for pushing that direct.
Beautifully said Yeah, I love I love I love that take. And I'm gonna tell you, Joel, next time you come around to my house, I'm gonna show you five Hallmark movies where a woman has an option to have a promotion and chooses to go with a broke guy who runs a farm.
It's like, legitimately, like.
It's the Hallmark choice every time, Aaron, how do you feel about this specific aspect of like just.
What you did like and you didn't like? Like what walk? Don't walk?
It's so funny. I find myself agreeing with each of you at different.
Times, which a conversation a great reaction for four of us. Well, I think everyone has heard the story that Selene's song she writes what she Knows, so Past Lives. Her first movie is based off of this incredible moment when she had two friends, one of them Korean and one of them American, and she was translating between them at the bar. So that exact scene in the movie is based off
a real life thing that happened. And she similarly worked for like six months or something as a match maker crazy and a lot of these conversations are things people asked her and told her, And so I think what I thought it was less about I know they keep they always harp on the math of dating, but I thought it was more about, like, these people are so open and honest with these frankly horrible things that they want and that they're willing to verbalize to someone and
say they can't be they can't be big, They can't be old, they can't be non white, they have.
To be a yeah whatever like minimum right.
Yes, like I legit have known I think as well.
That's another thing that I think was different for me is like I don't even really know like more than two people who earn one hundred thousand dollars or more so, like the idea that you would go out specifically look for that is just so out of my realm of understanding that's real.
I know that.
Every single day, and rejecting people for not hitting that.
Bar, I mean so so that I thought was a really interesting way of looking at it. And I thought the big progression of the movie was that Lucy not Dakoda, that Lucy originally lived in that world and then she came out of it through Chris Evans character John and and he brought her back to what she used to be, this person who had this like emotional dirty connection to
the arts. You know, I am obviously biased and like I will always side with like the artsy person in the versus I work in finance, but like I.
Mean, he was in privately, it's the most evil kind of.
Finance which media company look at all that those great meals they could go to. But yeah, so I I really enjoyed her progression that she goes through where she is at one point very much like you know, I'm going to die alone as I'm smoking a cigarette on the balcony here.
I've been in charge of nine weddings. They're falling apart, but I don't care because, like I talked them into doing the wedding, and that's what she seemed. Yeah, yeah, and so I think she changes by the end, and it's I mean, it is the most glaring and obvious film technique they use, I think, but it's highlighted by
the two different weddings. The wedding in the beginning when she meets Pedro Pascal and then this like outdoor, cute little wedding where she and Chris Evans hang out and it is adorable and weird.
They crashed like a super intimate like twenty people that yeah, like, well.
Yeah, has anyone crashed the wedding before?
Oh?
Yeah?
Like me, baby, I'm.
Tell there's a giant wedding happening. There's just like an open bar.
Yes, hi, congratulations, Okay, wait a minute, Aaron, I need you. Okay, what don't you like and let's talk about the open and closing sequences, because I do think that's some of the dumbest shit in the movie.
Like when it went back to that.
At the end, every single person in the ala my draft house, a notoriously quiet theater, just groaned and started laughing.
So, yeah, what didn't work for you? Aaron?
It started and I was like, am I in the wrong movie? Did something happen? Like what what are we watching? I don't know what is out right now that this might be? And like is this an homage to two thousand and one?
What is this?
And then it just kept going and I was like, okay, cool, Like I don't know that was some weird intro interlude, like she wanted to put that little If you haven't seen the.
Movie, basically it opens.
With a like the first.
People who got married by giving each other flowers, so it was a business deal.
And and she cooks for him, and then a saddle of the flower.
I think as well, I think that it's that's one of the things as well that I think is I guess for me didn't work is like the myopic nature of like wanting to create like a universal experience of like all humans do this while also then just like narrowing the idea of like what a human is or what a relationship because I get that's the point of the movie.
He's a dreamer, she's she's a true romantic.
She's just dreaming about people.
This sequence is so sweet. It is very weird, but you like, because.
You hottest take.
It's time by it. It's so Lucy.
I love the character of Lucy because this really works with Dakota's like range, which is that's just a cool girl. Yeah, cool, that's exactly and then the whole movie is like, Okay, so but that girl.
Is a dreamer.
She believes in romance, but she got her heart broken. Maybe she did it.
To herself little bit.
She's convinced herself that in order to that romance can't possibly exist, and so the safest thing for her to do is find a guy with a lot of money, because she's constantly about her parents. They were fighting over money, they broke up over money. She don't have no money. She's like, that's that's the whole solve. She's only got eighty.
K, but all of that goes toward her hair.
Yeah. Literally, so she's like her which in New York would cost, by the way, like five thousand dollars.
Buzzling is what we're saying.
This is what I'm saying, is like, Selene, you can't you go to I think the issue for me is the there is not enough suspension of this. My suspension of disbelief is not high enough with the world you're trying to tell us about, and you're telling me that people. No, no, not even just that just like she's earning ae.
K before taxes at a job where she's putting on like million dollar weddings every month, Like I absolutely know.
I do not believe that for a second.
Yeah, her commission should be much higher. She's got nine weddings, she's the most successful, and they're reporting millionaires as clients. The payout is not the scale is not making sense. But yeah, I can somewhat overlook that to say, like setting her up to be a dreamer and then she gets her dream proposal, Like we're inches from a rom com here, We're getting so close. It's a little big goofy. It just was not spread out evenly enough to hit
rom com for me. But I do I do like the Cavevan sequences.
I thought that I love that for you.
Let's talk quickly about chemistry. I love that for your job because I'm glad that exists with.
Someone because.
Talking about the.
Moving on, we're moving on.
We gotta talk about more important things, like chemistry. Is there any chemistry in this movie?
Chemistry? Can I have chemistry with.
These It's so good that Pedro was here, Like, yeah, that guy could have chemistry with a cardboard. He's making you feel like warm and when he's like this is how tall?
Oh yeah, everyone in the cinema whenever he was on screen any he brought her the flowers and everything, and he's like being really thoughtful about her and snuggling her in bed. I think, I don't know, man, I just think, like, as a woman who's like almost forty, who's lived through dating men for like way too long, and it's bad, guys,
it's bad out there. I don't think that there should be a negative idea of the fact that a woman seeks security or safety or a good relationship that isn't based on that like war feeling of love that you have to like struggle through.
And I that's the message.
I think that, in my opinion, this movie did not have the chops to talk about.
But yeah, Pedro, he has chemistry with everyone. Did you believe really? I felt like you can have chemistry with anyone.
I agree.
He had this amazing walk on moment and him taking the name tag tossing it over his shoulder. I was like, Oh, we are in for some amazing like convo. And I think they had no chemistry. I don't think they needed it. I think that's part of the story. And if they had too much chemistry, you would want them together. I don't think they had entire thing.
To be fair, Aaron, I agree with you that they didn't have the steamy romantic chemistry. It wasn't that I thought they had the kind of chemistry which is honestly my ideal relationship was just like, oh no, we're buddies exactly.
We're so comfy together.
Listen, buddies want lover to be my thrid.
Yes, dude, it's not about friend zone, it's about being If a man, if a man is your if you're if your loving.
Yeah, literally, like a man will kill you if they don't like you like that?
Is he even he's like no, I will say, obviously, primate equity billionaire high serial killer potential.
But I gotta ask you, guys, then, what about Chris Evans and Dakota Johnson Because to me, I felt like that was just too talking to.
See me. I did not feel any kind that was a more but like, hey, bro, how's it going? Like we went in high school together?
Like I did not get that at all, Like what was I did not get what that relationship was at all. Also, can I just say one of the cruelest things about this movie, why did she take Pedro Pascalte's play?
That was like an evil thing to do. That was a diabolical.
Comprehended because they hadn't established like, oh we're friends now, you know you could There was still clearly some lingering at their first interaction at the wedding. So you're like, to bring your ex to a guys who's clearly still harboring feelings for you is very strange. I also think Chris Evans had more chemistry with Dakota when she was not on screen with him and the phone call, Yeah, he calls and he's like, oh my god, You're like, man, this guy is in he is struck.
Yeah.
Yeah, But when they're together.
I've watched so much of the press tour because I have just been so interested in this, like this movie, I did not necessarily enjoy it as much as I thought I would, But I have watched like every piece of the press tour, and the three of them together have so much natural.
On, all of them playing off of each other, like is so good and and Dakota is so charming, and Pedro and Chris are incredible off of each other, off of her, and I don't know why that doesn't come through.
And I think part of that.
I again, Past Lives is absolutely beautiful. I think such an incredible debut and a movie that I could not get over when I first saw it. And I think that the script for this one didn't give me that same kind of It wasn't Chris Evan's fault, it was that the script wasn't there. I think the line that you read earlier, Rosie, when I see your face, I see wrinkles and children that look like you. I don't think that's like a hot amazing.
Okay, listen, listen.
I have a married friend. Her name is Hannah. She's an amazing person. Her good friend once told her, when you can see your your children in your partner's eyes. That's when you know it's the one.
I don't want to care and.
Yeah, the four of us have very different Yeah, but us and definitions of love, which I think is.
Part of it.
I think it's a very interesting situation because I do think that the vibes and haunting kind of like universal connection that people had with Past Lives. I feel like there are moments here where Selena is trying to create something that is similar and says something like that, But then I think that there are moments when it's just a rom com and I think that for me, yes is the disconnect where I feel like it's tough obviously sophomore movie, especially after something like Past Lives that was
so lauded. I do think that trying to do both here is where the movie kind of stylistically and emotionally doesn't connect.
I absolutely agree, Like I don't necessarily agree that the writing was bad, but I think the writing was at war with itself because it was like, I'm going to critique modern dating and modern ideas of love within the sandbox of traditional romcom tropes.
And the traditional choice of like follow your heart and go with the guys.
With the traditional message.
To say, like pick this guy, he's kind of and I think.
That does undercut some of its own message. Like I also hated that line about the I see wrinkles and kids, because like, that is what you hear in a nineties rom com when you go that was cheesy and cute, But whatever that fits in this movie, I don't think it fits in this movie because this movie is trying to be subversive and so to still be like holding on to rom coom trophy lines like that, I think is where the script worked against it.
I there's also right right before that, they're sitting there on the barrels watching the wedding and they're like, why does anyone ever get married? And Dakotas's she goes on this little monologue about like, you know, they do it because they're lonely, and they then they're hopeful. But then she says, but all marriages, you know, then you get mad at each other and you fight, and then you have kids.
And they hate each other to fight in.
Front of the kids, and then you do fight in front of the kids and you resent each other for that, which to me felt so cliche and like you're not saying anything new. Like every rom com ever has started with a woman who thinks oh, or or like the main character is a man and he thinks, oh, marriage never works everyone it doesn't work out. But that goes to the beginning of the film. Yeah, to do that in the back thirdy. I also thought right before, like.
It was weird because you bring up something that which is like, I don't we talk about like the business aspects of this, and I don't. I actually don't think I think that's a good way to approach things from a logical standpoint, even though you do need to follow your heart and be happy and be attracted to person and love the person. But like, I don't understand what Chris Evans. I feel like they didn't do a good
enough job. I would have loved to know what the conversation looks like if you are Chris Evans, like and Thecotta and Dakota Johnson's character having a conversation about what they would each bring to the marriage. Like everyone else is talking about what do you bring, money, height, whatever, the way you look, your skinniness, blah blah blah, But like, what is their conversation because to me, I don't really
understand it. It's just they loved each other once and we're bad to each other, and now they're going to get married and be bad to each other again. Like I feel like that was missing. It's like I don't know why they liked each other, and I don't.
Know, they just do. They're in love, like there's no logic behind it.
And they have the whole conversation in front of that partner.
He's like, I don't even know if this is a logical thing for us to do, but I would stick around that.
When you look when you're All I can bring to the table is that I will love you.
I'll set a phone reminder and every morning it'll say six a m. Don't forget you.
Why do you need a phone reminder?
Which which like I think, like that is the point of the movie, is like love is something you do choose every single day and that you that you pursue for your entire life with the person that you love. Right you, I believe you should never stop flirting with your partner to an annoying degree.
I'm sure, yeah, of course, no, that you're going to do that because otherwise, like this, what of course you have to do that?
And I think like, but that's not transactional. That's not me saying like I'm choosing you, so like what are you bringing here? Like can you do the dishes or something like. That's that's an intangible feeling that I pursue because I love a person, and I think like that is the whole point of this film. And I think a lot like how you perceive love, how how much of a like sappy, romantic person you are, Because at the end of the day, like the message is just
love is intangible. You can't put it in an app. You can't have a matchmaker put you on paper with another person, and you will feel what you will feel about different people in your life, whether they are rich, whether they are quote unquote poor. I don't know that we classify Chris Evans as poor.
No, I know. And that is another thing I will say that I do get pissed off about about most movies. Yeah, It's like when they show an apartment like that, and look, I'm saying I don't think you should move in with someone who has roommates because that's just stressful.
Rights, Yeah, but that apartment just looked like my fucking apartment in la It looks like every normal person that I knows apartment.
And it's another thing Hollywood always.
Stresses me out with, is like they don't know how to show a normal person's house without being like this is gross, like every house needs to cost thirteen million dollars. And again, yeah, I think there's just there's just something here that didn't connect. But I love your read on airboo, and I do think it's I think that's really sweet and I'm a bad.
Yeah, okay, real quick, can we just talk briefly about the end credits scene.
Did everyone see the end.
Credit I didn't see it. I thought it was fine.
It's a very seventies way to end a movie. Or you just hold on a shot and you're just watching them.
Yeah, boo.
If you didn't see it, or anyone in the audience who didn't see it. The movie ends with a shot of New York City Hall, and this is where you go to get.
Your marriage and you.
Get married if you are getting married at City Hall. I got married at City Hall, so I was in that exact room I was at. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you could see my hair in the back yeah yeah. I was like, hey, honey, I think that's Captain America over there and seens. Yeah, Celene's song also got married at City I don't know she got married at City Hall or she just went to pick up her marriage license.
But there's something really interesting about that which I like, because that is like this deep New York institution where like everyone kind of has to go there to pick up your marriage license. We legit did our wedding there as opposed to doing like an official wedding elsewhere. So I personally was against it at first because I was like, I don't want to get married around a bunch of strangers, Like I want to get married around people who I
know and care about. But when we got there and did it, I totally changed my mind because I wasn't going to marry her, I'm kidding. But when I got there, it actually was amazing because you are surrounded by a bunch of other people who are also surrounded by strangers who are just there with the person that they love, and maybe some family or guests are there. But so it's this space that is like inherently administrative and clerical and like very business y, but also just people in love.
So it's like a really cool place to end and I really enjoyed that. That didn't change the fact that I don't love this movie.
It's very very complimentary for a movie you allegedly I don't know.
Right, So look, I mean, I think if we judge these movies, this movie, and I'm saying, would I go on a second date with this movie?
I will.
I'm gonna watch this again. I have listened to the soundtrack a bunch because I really enjoy the sounds. Yeah, we didn't, Daniel Peperton. It's an incredible composer.
I love it. I'll watch this again at some point. It's just that I didn't like it.
I will not. I will not watch it again.
But I am so happy that I love any movie that makes people happy and makes people think about romance and stuff.
I grew up.
Not loving romantic comedies due simply to internalize misogyny, and I have recently discovered how much joy they bring me in the last like eight nine years of my life.
I love Sandra Bullock movies.
I love Nicole Kidman, I love loving basketball like Brian Grian this I I have had so much fun rediscovering those and I'm sure for some people this will be that bomb be real Guys, if I'm gonna watch it, this go a Johnson movie again, It's gonna be Madam Webb. I had such a better time watching that than this,
Like this was hard for me to watch. I think I almost got kicked out of the Alamo draft House, probably because I was like sighing and just like I could not stop exclaiming it did not hit for me, just.
My eyes.
People could hear them rolling in my head.
I will not be going on another date with movies, but I will say I hope everyone else who does go in a date with this movie enjoys it as much as Joel and Aboo, Joel, will you be going on another date with this movie?
Yeah?
I really want to interrogate we we sort of very briefly touched on it, and we don't need to do a fullish Fiel here, but like, I want to revisit the movie so that I can better analyze this client she has. She's such a and this is like a good warning for folks who maybe haven't seen the movie and are gonna use this as a degree whether to watch it. One of Lucy's client to set up on a date, she winds up being assaulted. You don't see the assault in the film at all.
It's the deal with that. Yes, extensive and a lot of diff I k it comes up again and again, whether you feel like it.
I was almost saying, by the way they managed it and how and how they sort of navigated, you know, both as a professional tragedy for Lucy and as like a real world consequence for this woman. And I think in a film about dating and choosing partners, to take a moment to stop and address the actual dangers of dating for women again feels really important to modern dating.
I don't know if it was, but yeah, I feel like to me, I didn't feel like it was successful.
I do think it's interesting.
I also, my biggest like mark against this movie is that Dakota Johnson's character Lucy set this woman up with this guy because she didn't know what else to do with her. That's a major plot point of the movie. She ends up getting raped, sexually assaulted. We don't know what happens, but it sounds like it was really bad. And then Dacora Johnson can't even set her up with Pedro Pascal, like, she just sets her up with a dentist.
I was like, are you matter her up at all.
She's not anymore right, it's not her client copy.
I'm saying, I'm sorry. Like to me, I'm like, come on, you could at least have a little bit of a happily ever after for this poor woman. Like there's gotta be some outcome. No, she just gets a dentist.
Also, but she has no friends in New York? What's going on?
There has no female friends in this movie.
She does not any.
Point, not her client, neither of that.
She's like, no point speaks to a friend about her issues between choosing between these two men. She had no point calls a friend or text is a female friend. Like, it's insane that in a movie about dating, she does not spend time with other women. I just don't find that believable.
Aboo, are you going on a second date with this movie?
No?
Once was fine?
I like.
That much, guys, I liked but like.
I don't know, it's it's just not a masterpiece of any you know, it's a it's a fine movie. I enjoyed it. I liked it's like pretty simplistic message about love and because you are old fashion how you pursue love. And you know, everyone was looking hot and was super well lit, and I do want to compliment the cinematography of the film, the way it like hung on these
two uncomfortable two shots during during these conversational moments. Is very difficult to make a movie that is ninety nine percent to people talking across a dinner table, interesting, intense, and this movie manages to do that. So I think there was a lot of art and craft behind this film. And despite its like clunkiness and some of the scripts being at war with itself and Dakota Johnson frankly absolutely taking me out of it every.
Time is not a Dclota Johnson fan.
I've never seen Dakota Johnson in anything, so I had no context going in. I was like, oh my gosh, Like, have you.
Not seen Social Network? She's in Social Network Bad Times at El Royale.
Remembering He's remembering.
No, I don't know.
I don't know that I've ever seen her. Regardless, I liked the movie. I don't feel like I need to see it again.
It was it was.
Fun, shocking that me and a Boo are on the same page. Chair you will not be reasons.
I'm just gonna watch Past Lives again.
Yeah, just watch Past lives on Madam Web.
Guys, come on just watch past Life.
Thank you guys so much for joining me. I am very excited that we got to talk about this.
I appreciate so much about X ray and the you guys input the most. That we can just like disagree with stuff and actually dig into it and have a conversation about why a movie works and why it doesn't work. And I think this was a wonderful example of that. So thank you so much for joining me on this episode.
Guys, it was a blessed jua.
Of course, You're so welcome. I'm stoked that we got to do it. Sorry to anyone involved in the making of this movie. I appreciate all the work that went into it. I'm sorry I didn't like it.
On the next episode of Extra Vision, it is our roundtable discussion of twenty eight years later.
That is going to be very very fun and very deep divy because there is a lot to talk about on that one. That is our episode. Thank you for listening.
X Ray Vision is hosted by Jason steps Young and Rosie Night and as a production of iHeart Podcast. Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Our producers are Carmen Laurent, Dean Johnson and Fay Wack.
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Asual thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi Our discord moderator
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