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a Year. Warning. This episode contains spoilers for Hawkeye episodes two and three, as well as a lot of informed conjecture about what might happen later on in the season, and some discussion of some comics information related to Hawkeye that could possibly give hints about where the series is going, but not a terribly a lot of that, but a little of that, So just be warned, and definitely if you haven't seen episode three of Hawkey, which is fantastic,
watch it now before you listen to this. Hello, my name is Jason and Stepsio and welcome to x Ravision, The Crooked Podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture and more. In today's episode, we're gonna be recapping and talking about episodes two and the excellent third episode of the show Hawkeye with our good friend Cody Ziggler. In the omnibus section, we'll be talking about organized crime in Marvel Comics. In the end game, yet
another game of assembly required. Let's go. Let's start with episode two of Hawkeye hide and Seek, director by Rhys Thomas, written by Eliza Clement. It opens right on the heels
of episode one. Clint drags Kate Bishop, who had recently rescued from the Tracksuit Mafia and who is wearing his old ron in costume that is evidence in multiple murders across multiple international jurisdictions, into an alley, and he doesn't unmasking, and he immediately says, come on because he sees before him a nine year old.
Girl too happy to be in the superhero life.
Yes, Kate naturally is you know, a little discombobulated. She has just once again fought a bunch of organized crime figures. She recently saw the corpse of her mother's fiances uncle.
We're that rich. The math of the family becomes very difficult.
Yes, And now she is meeting her hero, you know, all in the space in a few minutes. She has spent years study Clint from afar. Now she's like seeing them up close. As they're walking, She's like, oh, are you skinning for throats? And she's like, listen, I'm a black belt at fifteen, like I am one of the
best archers in the world. I'm ready for this. Back at Kate's three bedroom bunker in the East Village or wherever it is, Lower East Side somewhere, Clint meets the Pizza Dog and he's like, give me my suit, Kate, you got to give you my suit. Kate clearly saddened by the prospect of having to give up the suit again, not understanding the the what it's been through, and she tells him listen, I got it at this black market auction, a little shady place. I beat up a bunch of
mafia guys. And by the way, you're my favorite adventure, she insists. Listen, nobody, I don't worry about anybody tracking the suit to me like I had the mask up nobody, I got it, I got it, got and Clint is like, okay, listen, that's good because again a lot of people don't like the person wearing this.
I want to go into it, but there's a history there.
About in the history like it goes back to the snap. I don't want to talk about it. We're good. And then of course the tracksuit Mafia show ab outside the start throwing Molotov cocktails and throwing a lot bro Clint and Kate fight back. Kate gets to show off her archery skills, which are really good. Unfortunately, her apartment is now fully engulfed in flames. Kate Clinton lucky, thank god,
all escape. They take the subway to the nearest right aid for some near sword and some band aids, and Kate is like, yo, we're going to Avengers Tower right Tony sold it, unfortunately, says probably before the move to the Upstate compound, which, honestly, Kate, you should have seen that in the news on like Courage or some like Gothamist or some like some the real estate blog. Somebody should have announced that they go to a place that Kate knows. Kate's like, I know a place we can go.
It is the apartment of her aunt were Brandon More is out of town. Now, FYI, fun Easter Egg. More Brandon in the Marvel Comics is a like a Golden Age of Hollywood. You're a former actress who ends up selling her compound, her mansion down by like Redondo, to the Avengers, to Clint Barton so that they can use it for the West Coast Avengers compound. So really funny
easter egg. We're heading out west maybe. And of course Kate in the comics has a history of hanging out in La and so Clint is like, take some frozen peas putting on your wounds. I'm gonna go find the suit and I'll be back. He goes back to the apartment, does not find the suit, but he does see a sticker on the fire Department vehicle outside that says New York's LARPing Club. I don't know how that exactly is a connection, but I'm going with it.
Yeah, Like it's a big win for the Larby community today. They were eating today. You know, they got to give some love to those NYU Larper's, you know, shout out to my boy girls.
Clint comes back to morras. He is grumpy, he misses his family, et cetera, et cetera. Kate is like, you found a clue? You did? I know it? I can smell it on you and Kate and Clint is like, yeah no. While he was away, Kate has been working on highly accurate police style sketches of the Tracksuit Mafia vases, which is a very funny moment.
Yeah, yeah, you know she's a triple threat. Yeah, expert archery and artists.
I didn't know she had it like that, you know, Clint Google's New York City larpin Club with I mean, we knew the guy was accurate. Right in the in Ultimate Marvel, Clinton Barton kills like a bunch of batties with his fingernails. He prizes his fingernails out of his fingers and he flicks him at guys and kills them like that. Here he has the most accurate tapping fingers on a phone streen literally anybody's ever seen in like anywhere in the world.
He's just like.
You. There's no backups, no deletes. He ends up right on the instagram of a gentleman named Grills, who is one of the firefighters. He stole the Ronan suit and now he's just straight up wearing it, broadcasting to the world that he has his suit. He'll be at a LARPing event. Shortly, Clinton Kate watch a New York One report about Armand's murder, and they discover that the someone wearing the Roman costume is a person of interest in the case. Kate is now a suspect and a murder.
Clint is increasingly annoyed, and he's like, listen, you got to stay put. Your cops are looking for you, organized crime wants to kill you. You got to stay here. Kate learns about Clint's hearing a pairment. She asks him about it, and Clint's like, listen, I've been banged up for a while.
Yeah, I've been blown up so many times, like he got a dealer's choice ones.
You don't get it, like I who knows? Like how this happened? And Kate and what is kind of one of the early really chemistry forming moments. I love the Haley and Renner are wonderful together, but here in a really wonderful chemistry forming moment, Kate is like trying to convince Clinton you need to be more out there. You need to be more of like a front facing hero because people need it right now, like post snap you know she is, you know, post COVID, you know people,
people need it. They split up. Kate goes to her mom's office at Bishop Security and Clint goes to get the suit at the at the larpening event and they trade numbers and Clint's like, here's my number unless Sano shows up again, do not fucking call me at all. Kate at Eleanor's office. What does she find? He finds
Jack just chilling there. This guy likes in the cut, like does Eleanor has This is a work day, Like Jack, you want to drop off some food and bouquet flower something that's nice, but like you don't need to hang out here, but he is. Kate gives Jack her condolences because of course his uncle was recently murdered. Jack, it's rolling right off his back, man, He's not. He's moved on.
Yeah, yeah, that mustaches his lack of caring for his uncle. Like he's chilling, he's he's good with it.
He keeps a deep inside and in fact, he's like it seems to be actively trolling Kate, Eleanor and writes Kate to dinner. Later at the penthouse, Jack is cooking. You gotta try his risotto, Kate say his bet, but I get to steer the conversation. Okay. Clint goes to the LARP. Long story short, he gets a suit back. He has to take an embarrassing l to grills in person in front of everybody, but he does get the suit back. At Bishop Security, Kate gets a shocking call
from Detective Caudle of the NYPD. I'd like to speak to her. Kate's like, I'll come in the following day, not today.
Yeah, I got some stuff on the docket today.
Yeah, we'll do that. I'm gonna talk to my mom, get our high priced lawyer to come with me. We're not going to do that today. Clint tells Laura the first of many calls. Listen, it's gone. I'm being late and using coded language, which I gotta tell you I think plays into our theory.
Yep, yep, you know what I mean.
Laura has been in that life.
Yeah, she's a little bit too cool to a little bit too well.
Yeah, lose it a little bit too well. I think we're going to see her swing into action. I think uh, and he basically tells her, listen, we're gonna I gotta settle things with the tracksuit mafias. And it's clear that he has some experience with him, He's aware of them, has tussled with him before. Perhaps he says he's not sure how high up this whole thing goes, suggesting a larger criminal figure, a kingpin, if you will, maybe behind them, and Clint's like, but listen, don't worry. I'm gonna be
home for Christmas. And Laura's like, what's the play? Which again more about it. Clint is like, I'm gonna do catch and release, which is a NAT's favorite. Laura not. It's when we meet Nataja Romanov in Marvels The Avengers. She is in the midst of a catch and release with the Russian guys. Uh. So. Over to Eleanor's Jax Risotto's apparently wonderful. I love to try it. Do you ever Rosta? Do you have a Resolta recipe?
Zig No? But like I like his his his tip if you have to agitate, It's like, maybe that's the key. I got to talk some shit to it, you know, embarrassing in front of its parents and then.
Beat h Well, Kate listen is again. He loves to agitate, he loves the troll. He is playing with Kate a lot, and and you know, knows that she knows something and is playing with the idea that she knows but is but is having fun with the fact that Eleanor is blissfully unaware of everything. Kate is like, hey, Jack, you know about swords, you know about uh repasts, you know about I don't know all the lingo, but like Kate clearly does because she's a two time state champion, as
she tells him. And all this ends up with the two of them sparring. They get the fencing gear out, they start going at it, and Jack lets her win numerous times again and again. Kate's like, you're letting me stop it. I know you're good, stop it. And then as he looks away, she goes to stab him, like in the neck.
He's like, old on, let me, let me, let me turn on a little bit. That's like what you would play, like play basketball with, like your uncle who was really really good, And he's like, I let you get a couple of shots, but like once you even try, like actually come at me, I'm gonna go break your ankles embarrassed a little, and that's.
Exactly what it was. He just goes ping Perry's it. Her blade goes like spinning across the floor, and then he straight up is like, to be fair, I don't play my skill and repeatedly died oft it. Eleanor does not even register this. Jack just said, I've been lying completely throughout the entire year. I've been lying. She's for a little bit esus like furious at Katie, and I just want to say one thing about this. So Eleanor played by the wonderful Viraa Farmiga, who I love and
everything she's ever done. She lost her husband tragically during the Chutari attack, which nobody ever expects. You're sitting at home having a nice day, and you know, nobody ever expects that, you know, to go to have tragedy occur that way with an invasion of aliens led by a Norse god, and clearly the family was in some sort of economic streets at the time, you know, that decade plus ago, and she's done an incredible job, not just steadying the family finances, but like building on it, taking
care of her daughter. And she's clearly sacrificed her social life, her personal life to do that, and now this man comes into her life. He's debonair. Maybe she doesn't know a lot about him, a little dangerous, you know, and she's she wants to hold on to it, And so I feel bad for Eleanor in that respect. Kate, you know, is trying to be like, he just admitted he lied, you know, well, what's happening, And again Eleanor is not
hearing it. Eleanor walks away, and Jack is like, can I offer you a monogram butterscotch from the home of armand Duqute, my recently murdered uncle.
Yeah, shout out underneath his underneath his best you see, they like one of those spray paint you know, rest and piece things you get my stocking market.
Later, the tracksuit Mafia captured Hawkeye, just as he intended. They take him off in a van, in a moving van, trust to Brow, moving off to their warehouse. Meanwhile, Kate is calling Clint. She's trying to talk to him because she's like, listen, my mother's boyfriend is fucked up. You know, this guy is shady as hell, Clint Hello, So she can't get in touch with him. So what does she do.
She commits what is probably a federal crime by packing into his phone and you know, and a and a private cellular network using Bishop Technical Securities n S a spyware online portal that is apparently accessible to like any employee like in the.
Yeah, like her last names on the end of the d of the building. Maybe she has a special.
Action and she tracks him to the warehouse. I Meanwhile, the mafia is stay on hood, Clint. They're interrogating him. Clint is like, listen, I want to speak to your manager. Okay, uh, you guys, don't call the shots. I know that you're all dressed the same. That's the number one hint. I'd like to speak to whoever your boss is so we can clear all this up. They want to know where
Cape Bishop is. He's like, who, what? Who? And then in a moment that is feels very of a piece with the co with the vibe of the Hawkeye comics, Kate Bishop comes crashing through the skylight in a in a torrent of broken glass and lands on the ground. And in another room, Maya Lopez Echo gets the news that the prisoners are in hand, and she begins to plot her next move now onto episode three Echoes. Directed by Burton Bertie, written by Katie Matthewson and Tanner Bean.
This episode is fair, straight up.
Straight up, straight up faction comic fun. That's exactly what it is, straight up.
Like top level Marvel television comics, television fun like it's got everything and heartbreaking organ story, incredible like chemistry between two heroes that kind of don't get along but also are star like each other, and like unbelievable action throughout. So we open in two thousand and seven, a young Maya Lopus is in class. She is deaf, and so she is using her already acute but clearly developing powers of observation to understand what's going on in class read
her teacher's lips. She's not perfect at it yet, but her school work is just absolutely fallless, nonetheless like straight as she's a brain. Later, we see Maya and her father played by the wonderful so On mclaarlan, in her room. They are signing together. It's just really hard, beautiful, unbelievable stuff. She's asking her dad, you know, are about different animal sounds and our dragons, which sounds of dragons make are they real? Seemingly a nod to the recently released Shung.
She Maya asks her dad, Hey, like I thought I was. You were going to enroll me in the deaf school, and he's like, no, I know it's hard. I'm sorry, but this way is better because you're gonna have to learn to jump between two worlds. She's out, you know, just by watching, and we get another scene in a martial arts class where it's clear that Maya's powers of
observation are just growing with every day. She easily beats an opponent just by watching him and understanding his tendencies, and we fast forward years again we see an adult Maya just fucking ironing out a spark cart.
Yeah, just embarrassing everyone, yes, stomping him out.
She goes back to her father's autobody shop headquarters. It is called fat Man Auto Repair. Hint, hint, and who does she find but the Ronan. In the middle of a killing spury, she sees the Ronan stab her father through the gut. He is mortally wounded. He says he signs to her fly away from here, little Dragon, and then he dies. This is what this is what I
love about comics. For me, Yes, this is what I love about comics and why I've always connected to it because, like, at its core, superior comics are about giving meaning to tragedy. You know, people are born differently and that can cause them a lot of pain. You know, maybe you're born with some kind of impairment, maybe you're born feeling like you don't look like everybody else. Tragedies happen to people. You lose, people you know, loved ones get sick, et cetera.
And in the real world it's like that just happens. You just like have to process through it and be like, you know, is the world unfair? I guess it is, like that really sucks. In comics, all of that serves to create a reason that someone has a past.
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's it's the myth man. It's like the classic myth. Like you know, it's like if Maya could have flipped the coin and it could land it
heads or tails. Head, she becomes a good person, tells she becomes bad, and like this when it happened to land on tails, and like you realize that her journey is going to be becoming good maybe I mean, or at least an anti hero and like that's like that's the just at the classic power that you can comics and they fucking perfectly nailed dot and nailed it.
I mean that's the stuff that just gets me, you know, Like yeah, So we go to the present day. We see Kate and Clint. They're on those little like corn operated carnival horse rides and the track suits are just like making fun of them. A wonderful moment in which Enrique asks Kate how to deal with an issue about imagining.
Dragon soy, I built the imagine dragons stick. It's as a gift, you know, as a gift. And then we have a fight and my girlfriend say, I take there's a gift for me.
I take them and I go with the girlfriend. She do this on purpose. And then Kate is like, Kate says something I just love kids is something super simple like why don't you apologize? And Enrique's like, I got to go write this down.
Hold on, that's such like that seems like something ripped straight from I know it's not a word for word, but it's like such the vibe of the Faction comics of like these are just like these are like the quote unquote bad guys but they still have like a little bit of like humanity to him, like a fun.
Twere absolutely is the vibe they've captured, the vibe of that stuff, like really really well, this is again a great episode. Maya comes down. She notices that Clint has a hearing ag She signs to him and asks him about it. Clint signs that listen, I'm hard of hearing. I'm not deaf. Maya then fires off a full speed flurry of asl that Clint is just like what a more? Please,
thank you, And with that, Clint's ASL quiver is officially empty. Kazi, Maya's translator and right hand tracksuit mafia person, then asks Clint, here's okay. She wants to know, like why you're here. Maya suggests that Clint, you know you depend too much on tech. You should actually get rid to that trump in your other senses, relaying the advice her father gave her once upon a time. In a different form, Clint tells Maya that listen, Kate isn't Ronan. She got the suite,
she came across it and she put it on. She doesn't know what it means. Just like, let's just let her go. Okay, and Maya is like, well, I don't know. I've heard that the Ronan is back. This is too there's too many coins that is going on here, and Clint says, listen, that's just a rumor. Ronan is dead. I was there when he was killed by my best friend Natasha romanof Rest in Peace. Now, we all saw that scene in in Avengers Endgame, and we know that's
not exactly how it went. But that's okay. I'm glad to see that. Clint Barton feels really bad about going on in international murders free you know, extra judicial murders. I'm not sure what the evidentiary rules that he set up for himself war, but he was just out there, just anybody in the building was getting cut.
Cliner getting got security guard got yeah.
Maya's like, Clint, you're lying. And then so she goes to ask Kate, you know, why did you put on the suit where you get it? And as Kate is answering, you know, Maya just flashes back to the murder of her father and she lose it. She starts choking Kate. Kazi is like, hello, you know, can we talk for a second. While they are arguing Clint settles Kate down and he's like, listen, get ready for what's about to happen. Boom, he saw him through it, his his taped bonds, and
a big fight happens, which is absolutely wonderful. We get to see them all in action. Clint uses the ball pit for cover at one point and they managed to escape the warehouse. They hot wire car track suits in Maya gave chase. We get a wonderful reference to the car scene, the kind of like three sixty degree one shot take car scene from Children of Men by Alfonso Coron,
one of my favorite movies. We get to see Kate shoot some of the trick arrows, including putty arrow explosive arrow, which the detonation of which gives Kate, I believe, her first official kills in the MCU.
Because yeah, I took three episodes, but she got there.
She got it. We also see the USB arrow from from What Iss? Yeah love that, and then the chase makes zero sense geographically by the way, but we end up on the Williamsburg Bridge where Clinton Kate use a regular arrow plus a pim arrow to definitively end the chase,
and then with bullets whizzing at them. They dive off the side of the bridge, use a grappling hook, swing onto the top of a train that's running along the lower deck, which is a really cool moment because we remember Kate's first glimpse of Hawkeye was him diving off the roof during the chitary attack, so here she gets
to do it with her hero, which is awesome. Clint tells Kate, hey, his tranade, by the way, gone right now, So it's a one way conversation to an extent, but he's like, you know, you really are a legit great archer, and Kate is like, holy shit, this is amazing. We end up back at Morrisey's village pad Clint is again using frozen produce to ice his bruises and stuff and his phone rings, and here we get like one of my favorite scenes, I think in any Marvel thing ever.
This was a great Clint gets a call. He thinks it's from Laura. It's actually from Nathaniel, but he can't hear it, and so he's trying to like play it off, like, oh, honey, can you text me. Kate comes up and writes down everything that Nate is saying, and you know, He's like, Dad, I'm bored, Mommy's asleep. It is like a very kid thing to say. And eventually Clint says, listen, I'm not
going to be home for a family movie night. And Nate's like, listen, if you can't make it over Christmas, I get it, and Clint's like, I promise, I'm going to be there. Let's pause here for a sing.
See breaking apart. You see.
I tear it up. I honestly did tear up because RENNERD does it all on his face right here, and it is and even Kate, you can see great stuff from Hailey Steinfeld. Kate you can tell feels like fuck, I fuck this guy's life up. Ben, Yeah, let me ask you here because I'm getting these vibes like, man, are they gonna kill Clint Barton?
Yeah? I don't know.
I feel like it's a lot of I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna I'm telling I'm coming home. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get there.
Yeah. I feel like it may be one of those things where if they I don't think they straight up kill him. But baby, I don't know. I think no, I think what will happen is like we will see your first official like passing of the like mantle, like we sort of mean you got it. The implied with with you know, cap doing it an endgame, but like this is like he's in this prime, like he has this kid. I think this is like his last rodeo.
He's like, you know what, I went out. I helped this lady, Like she's capable of being here, and like she has my number if she needs to kill me. But like, don't call me, like you said, Lesteno's sons is popping up.
I could see him getting so because you know, him getting banged up is kind of part of the deal and part of the character. I could see him getting so injured that he's just like I can't do it anymore. Maybe that's how they do it. We go to the tracksuit warehouse Trust to brow the fleet of Trust bro vans are out there. Kasie pulls my aside. He's like, listen, are you maybe like pulling on a little too tight the thrown thing. You know, we should be keeping a
low profile, not banging in on the streets. If the uncle finds out, if our boss uncle, who listen. There's a lot of theorizing that it's Kingpin. I don't know how. I think that's a big look at hand, it was a big looking suit. It was very similar to the suit Denofrio wears in the in the Netflix series. I it's him, I'm just I will be shocked if it's
not him. Anyway, Maya's like, you would not question my father like this, right, And you know, honestly, she is right, and that conversation just gets fucking shut down, and she's like, tracksuit guys. You guys are absolute fucking morons. Okay, but I want you to investigate Clint Barton by hooker by crook, Like you guys can't even figure out what to do with the manager dragon tickets. I don't care. I want you to investigate a former Shield agent in Chinatown. Kate
and Clint go to get his hearing it fixed. Later, they grab lunch where Kate is just buzzing on adrenaline because they're having adventures and she's getting to do this with a hero, and Clint is like, I turned my shit off. I'm not hearing you. Literally, I'm gonna turn my shit on now so I can order coffee. Yeah, Kate tells Clint, I've always wanted to be a superhero. This is amazing that I said we're doing I'm doing it. And then another just wonderful small scene between these these
two actors. Clint is like, listen, there's a price. There's a price you have to pay. It's not just that my hearing is impaired. Unspoken is all the time spent alone with my family, the kind of like soul cost of the fact that I've killed so many people, watching Nat die in front of me, all of that. Kate, it is like, Okay, boom er, whatever, check this out.
I'm going to draw you a new costume. And then she draws him a costume, which is basically Don Heck's og Hawkeye design from the six season is super cool. Clint's like, I'm not wearing that. I won't wear a mask. I'm not wearing that. My wife would leave me the whole thing. Yes, And Kate is like, well, you know the way you're protecting Ronan, you must know who it is. That's got to be somebody close to you. Clint doesn't answer, but he does tell Kate that listen, I'm not a
role model. I'm not a hero. Kate doesn't get it. She's not seen the body count again. Later on, Clint begrudgingly tells Kate some very very extremely basic info in the track suits. They were once a small gang and now they're bigger, okay, all right, and that the boss at the top will do anything to grow the operation.
Ha huh Ronan. Clint says, hit a supplier of the track suits, and then hit tracksuit management in what we assume is we'll talk about if that's the case in the conversation that follows this, and it's assumed that kills Maya's dad that was what he's talking about is the attack that we saw at the beginning of this episode in the cab right back, Clint wonders what else the tracksuits were after not knowing, of course, about the watch which we saw in a previous episode, they break into
Kate's mom's penthouse to get into the Bishop security mainframe find some info about the tracksuits. They discover that Kazi has links to a company called Sloan Ltd. There's also a really cool easter egg more Daredevil stuff. There's a really cool Easter egg. One of the names in that database is m Kemp, which is probably Michael Kemp, who is a character from Daredevil season three where Matt Murdoch breaks into Rikers to talk to this low level Albanian gangster.
And it's episode four And if you haven't caught up with dared Oel, maybe you know and you want to see something incredible. Four of season three of Daredevil has a one take action scene in which Matt escapes from Rikers and it's legitimately one of the great action scenes of the last five years movies, television, whatever. It's nuts so cool easter egg there. Then Kate is you know, continues to hack, but then she gets locked out of the system, and Clint is just like marveling at the
riches of the Kate Bishop penthouse. He's walking around looking at it, and next thing you know, he finds a sword at his neck. It is his own Ronan sword held by one Jack Dukane, who I can only suspect next episode will open the episode by saying, Clint, my boy, yeah, my protege okay. So critics and the viewers love it. Ninety two positive on Rotten Dematos by critics, eighty percent
says the audience here is my kale. At the New York Times, Seinfeld and Renner are good foils for each other, as Bishop pushes Bartner relax and he tends to act like her fussy at he really is a boomer in this Positive reviews, Positive reviews. Let's go on to the theories and what's going on here. Okay, we're stepping out of the airlock and into a wonderfully up kept nineteen seventy Dodge Challenger to discuss Hawkeye on Disney Plus Zig what did you think of these episodes? And man, is
it the Kingpin? Is it the kig Pin? Thanks?
Starting off? The episodes are great. I let them across the board. Number three was the episode three was definitely may like, fuck, the show is good. Like I was telling Jason before before we recorded that, I almost texted him like, damn, I can't believe I actually care about Clinton Barton because I've never It's sort of like how the Faction comments, like I never gave particularly much of a shit about Hawkeye or Clint Barton, but like that comic made me care, Like this episode three had made
me care. It's great. I it's got to be the Kingpin. I was like, who else? Who else has that thick that thick of a suit and that thick of a hand, you know, walking around working with like some some vaguely Albanian dudes like fingers crossed, like I hope my heart of heart wanted to be the Kingpin man.
Yeah, same here. I love this episode for all the reasons I said above. I think they're doing something really kind of magical with with Hawkeye with Clint Barton. In that one, they are acknowledging that he killed a lot of people and that it was a bad thing that he did, like that wasn't good, and they are acknowledging
the toll that it's taken on him. But also to your point, and this is on the heels of an episode in which you saw him murder like what seemed like a really loving father, his father.
Yeh.
Yeah, they're making you care about him like they they all these family moments, all the moments with Kate where he you can feel him against his better judgment, like kind of liking her, yeah, but also wanting to be like, man, don't.
You don't do this? Yeah? It really makes it, really, it really makes me. This is the thought I always have when I'm reading like a Punisher comic, where I'm like, you know, I mean I also have like the very bad guys who are doing like you know, sex trafficking and like actual war cariminals. Yeah, but it's like a dude selling drugs he's getting shot in the face because
he's be given a bad hand. Like that's the thought that I had with with you know, echoes Dad, and it brings me this at this point I talked about last time, but like this is like the first like street level stuff that we've seen, and like I like that they're playing it smart and it's not just like this guy robbing a car and he needs to get his fucking neck broken, Like well, why is he rapping the car? Like yeah, what are the systematic things that
are in places make him have to do that? And like this is the first time like we're sort of seeing that, Like we're seeing like, yeah, they're big bads. Are just a bunch of like vaguely Eastern European dudes and tracksuits. They're they're having fun. They're pulling out suction cup you know, arrows and and putty arrows and like they're kidding people with like you know trick as that bringing up a bunch of like Christmas trees, so to
one another. It's like it's just a fun thing when it's so much more grounded in the stakes are so much lower that you can have this big fun comic bookiness of us all, which I think, you know, we haven't really got that aspect in Marvel yet, when like just the street level guys on the ground fighting like low steaks guys.
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And again it is it just ties into the stuff that I've loved about comics from an early age, which is like it you know, honestly, you take the suit and the powers away, and these are like some of the saddest stories you know ever, Like you take Spider Man, you take the powers away from Spider Man, and it's like a young man makes
a poor decision that leads to his beloved uncle. He's already an orphan and he's living with his uncle and aunt and leads to his uncle getting murdered awful, you know, Like it's the same with any you know, like Harry Potters and great example that's just like an abused kid that's like his was kept under the stairs by like relatives, like if he never gets a magic letter his to
give all of that meaning. It doesn't change. Maya is someone who watches her dad like horrifically murdered in front of her, and if not for it's her personal dedication and her like doggedness and talent that allows that to like alchemize and turn into her having these like amazing abilities. That is the kind of stuff like as a kid, that is the stuff you just like daydream about.
Yeah, it also makes me think, like, you know, if this is if this is like just a straight up comic and like not having to like write stuff like this would be she would be the that would be like the first five pages of like the next Great Daredevil comic. You know, like she's like she's she very much feels like, you know, this is like if Matt Mardach went down the bath his dad getting killed by the Kingpin. Her dad gets killed by their roanin Like
she has a very similar power set. It seems like at least, you know what the you know, the hearing stuff and like being able to see stuff or like yeah, like you want to root for that and like, yeah, I don't know, it's just it's just so much cooler. I mean, it's a lot of it's been cool, but like It's cool seeing like a person that you can probably meet, like in their superpowers, just like being like fifteen percent better than most humans, you know, like that's really what her superpower is.
Great origin story like this is how you do it?
It was what like.
Four scenes maybe five and a half minutes total, and you got it. Yes, you got everything that drives her. You know what she can do, and you know why she is absolutely enraged and furious. I can't wait for the Maya show. A'subout theory. So Saul are one of our producers, Saul Rubin, we were discussing in the pre pro like, oh, that's crazy, Like Clint during his killing
spree killed Maya's dad. That was awful, And then Saul brought up that in the comics, it's actually the Kingpin that orders the murder of Maya's dad and then he frames Daredevil for it. What if he's doing something similar here, you know, like a good way to get rid of people during the time that Ronan was active was like, you know, dressed like Ronan and kill a bunch of people and just blame it on that guy. They're never even catch him anyway, and if they do, let's put
those bodies on him. Now, I think that that is fantastic. And then you have I don't know if it would be Bullseye or whatever, but you have already made person who has used a sword in this story already and Jack Dukaine maybe it was Jack. Now the question, first of all, what do you think of that? It kind of undercuts the fact that Clint knew that the Ronan hit the Tracksuits previously?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that does under well yeah yeah, it better cuts it. But also is like, you know, this isn't the only faction of Tracksuits, right, They've probably got operations all over the city. It does like just thinking like comic book or wise, like you know the big bads so far like Echo and the Swordsman, but like any true comic it has to have like you gotta have like issue five or four is like when you see like who's really pulling the streams? It's Norman Osborne,
It's the Kingpin, It's Who's Instanos, it's whoever. And like I feel like the big like the big splash page reveal on episode how many episodes are doing like six? Maybe episode like six, episode five is like, oh shit, that's the Kingpin. He's like, maybe he's not like the Kingpin we're used to with, like the Daredevil.
A Kingpin on the come up yesh, yes, Like yeah.
He's got like a nice warehouse he's in, like you know, buying million dollar art pieces for his jail French boo. But like I think I think that's the move because also, like I said, like all this stuff has been so grounded, like we know that Maya or Echo is getting like a spin off show, and like it seems like Marvel is taking the direction of doing like the street level stuff.
So like I imagine we're gonna see more of the world of Like all right, if this is the Kingpin, like all those other like Kingpin esque characters who are like they're Robin Banks, are like they're you know, extorting neighborhoods, They're not like, you know, getting six Infinity gauntlets to Jilly Jims like snap half the universe away.
I love that. So if the Kingpin is framing Ronin, which feels like a very Kingpin thing to do, and if in fact it is Jack, which maybe that's why it's Jack, the question then becomes this, so the the they're not going to do a fake costume because they made such a big deal about Clint having to get back the costume. If there were a bunch of fake knockoff Ronan costumes out there, then it wouldn't work as a story piece. Right, So there's got it, there's the
one costume. Does that mean that Duquine and whoever broke into the Avengers compound stole the suit and then brought it back? And that's where it was in the rubble Because I'm trying to figure out, like how the watch, which is the thing wanted like basically the thing they were trying to get it seemed like the tracksuits. How that plays into it? Is like did Jack break in?
He stole the suit, then he brought it back, and while he's undressing, he like took his watch off to like whatever, wash his hands.
He just like left the watch. Yeah, it makes me. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's one of those things where like they just have some like low upper state New York dude scavenged it and they got into like the black markets. I have no idea. I think I don't know if you're the one that tweeted this, but like I think like the auction. They also are like a dinosaur, a dinosaur skull, there's shortage, and was like, oh,
that's this is a Savage Land's confirmed. Like I don't know if it's just like one of those things where like they have a group of weird guys that have been picking up weird stuff all over the world. Yeah,
maybe you'll find a dinosaur skull. Also, we had this dude upstate that went through the aftermath of the Avengers compound, like they found a watch, maybe there's a maybe there's an Ironman Suit eighty seven schematic and there, you don't know, pay a bunch of money, we'll see what happens with it.
I do think that that's a Savage Land hit that's too big, Like they know what whether it's Savage Land or not. I'll just say that the people who make these shows are very very smart, Okay they and they know that when they put a dinosaur skull in there, that you and I and everyone else are going to be like, oh shit.
You can go to Google and see like the searches for devil dinosaur spiking the day that is.
Let me throw another theory at you. I want to also preface this by saying, list of my theories are often wrong, but I love doing it and I'm not gonna stop going in because I love doing it. That's that's why we're here. I feel like this ends with Clint gets home. He's banged up, right, he can't really fight that well, and they think it's over. Clint got home for Christmas. He's in a full body cast, but
he made it. And then we get that Jason Voor He's coming out of the water camp Crystal Lake moment where you thought it was over, but no, it's not over because now the bad guys are here. They're going to attack him on the farm. That means Laura's got to suit up. She's got to put the Bobby Morrise Mockingbirds suit back on. And then my Lopez, we assume is switch side by this time, has got to help out. And you know, maybe Yolena, who we know is going
to be in this, has got to help out. And now it's like a big fight on Clint's farm with Clint in a you know, fully laid up, just like watching from the sidelines.
That's so I completely forgot that they said that Elena's going to be in this, Like like yeah, yeah, but that that sounds like a fun theory. Like I'm like, I mean all these I mean Marvel movies are notorious for the third act fight. Like that's that's what people show up for, you know, like every commo. I want
to have the double spread, the double page splash. Yeah, yeah, I could see like there's some type of assault on the farm, just because like you want to see, yeah, like you want to get the cool shot of like both Hawkeyes shooting their thing, or if you want to see mocking Bird in like Kate Bishop Hawkeye kicking some ass with with echo, Like I'd buy that. What I said, I would love to see that.
What's your what's your favorite double page spread?
Oh boy, that's man, That's that's a hard question.
Uh.
I'll say this is I think this is a double page spread. I can't remember correctly, but there's an amazing Spider.
Man where it's like splash or a double page, it doesn't matter, Like, yeah, whatever.
I would do the splash. It's one of my favorite splash. It's a it's a Spider Man like going throughout the citium, like one of the tropes or like one of the classic things that Spider Man is like to show characters agility. They'll show like ghost images of him and him like a high rise, he jumps off a water tower like swips around like a flagpole, bounces off, and like he
comes out of the frame with that. I just like those are like my absolute favorite types of splashes, and like that one has been burned into my my skull forever.
That.
Then there's one like Avengers, the one where they assault the base. I think siege. I think it's what it was called. But like this' one where like like the Wasp was just like sunbathing and like a helicopter peers and then like Captain America, like does it doesn't slip?
Yeah, he dives down and slips. It does like a summersault.
Like bro, you could just like the doors open, you could just walk in, but if you want to flec Yeah, that's not steels.
That that is a uh yeah, that's the Rogers Stern siege storyline, under Siege, under stage. It's like fantastic my favorite splash. I mean, it's gotta be Kitty Pride, oh, Professor Xaviers or jerk. It is one of the great openings in comics history. And then I think I love Hitch Brian Hitch and his work in Ultimates one and two. There's some I mean that stuff is like blow it up, put it on your wall, and just start at it
forever under the black light. There's a couple splait double page spreads in there, particularly Ultimates too, where it's like they're all in action fighting these crazy like demons in DC and the level of detail is like it's just an ocean of demons. They're fighting them, and you look and it's Quicksilver is zipping throughout the picture, like from the top to the bottom, doing different things every every way, like Hawkeye is shooting arrows. It's really cool, really cool.
One of my favorites ever, just like one of the things you can fall into a little bit of a problematic comic listener.
But like that is definitely comic that maybe like, oh, I think I like Captain America, Like he's kind of interesting. All right, cool, let's let's do.
This listen again. Great episode. I can't wait for episode four or any any theories that you have, any predictions do you want to make?
You know, I feel like we're really I mean, this was like the big fun comic booking one I think episode four is probably gonna be a little bit more like expo, like this is why things are happening. We'll probably get a fun set piece. I'm thinking, like mad As you mentioned that Black Widow or Yolana black Widow is going to be and I think we might get like the first tease that like is black widowed or is she like being directed by by by I guess
this version of what the Thunderbolts will be. Is there going to be a Thunderbolts teasing this like I'm hoping. I think it will get like a bigger a bigger worldview like the the We'll get like a twenty thousand foot view of like the street level stuff in episode four.
Obviously a lot of Daredevil hints as well. Yeah, whenever the Kingpin is if you're thinking Kimpin's got to be there, his number one foil has always been dared Owlil do we get. I think we get some sort of like we see like Nelson and Murdoch, like like ad or something or a sticker, or we maybe a mention of Matt Murdoch as a lawyer. I don't I don't think we see Daredevil in this. I think maybe we get a mention.
Yeah, no, I was just gonna say, like, there's no way though they'll they would drop Daredevil in like a TV show that I remembers, like they had Jonathan Major's.
In Loki, Like, yeah, right, the rules are whatever they want. So I don't know. I feel the same with you. It feels like they wouldn't do it, but maybe they would know a lot of people are theorizing, Oh, like Daredevil, they'll bring him over in no way home, maybe from another dimension like the Netflix dimension. Yeah, that could be. And here's my my only note on why maybe that couldn't be the case is Matt Listen A big part
of his identities he's a practicing lawyer. He's, you know, out there fighting in the courts for the little guy all the time. And I don't think his Earth four twenty law degree it's gonna work. It's gonna work in this Earth. I may be wrong. I don't know how it works if you get a law degree in another dimension?
It does it? Does it transfer?
Like does your cell phone and your driver's licenes all that stuff work? You'r atm Yeah, Yeah, I'm just I don't know. It feels like it wouldn't work.
Yeah, there's ever a Devil TV show that the first season would just be about getting around the hurdles of interdimensional in universal law practices.
Yeah, you're like on the phone with the I R S. It's like push for if you were recently brought over to this dimension from another dimension. Uh shit, awesome, this is fun.
Yeah, man, always a blast up next to the omnibus.
Huh bad buzz what you want? What you're gonna do when the Ron incomes and kills your dad? We're talking about crime, folks. With all the speculation about Uncle and about whether this character is in fact Wilson Fisk, the Kingpin of Crime and Marvel Comics Fame and Daredevil on Netflix Fame, it feels like the perfect time to do a kind of cursory overview of the worlds of organized crime within Marvel Comics canon. Now quick note, a criminal a criminality in the context of the Marvel universe was
the comics and the MCU doesn't necessarily mean villain. Right In the real world, of course, legality and morality are often mutually exclusive, and we could point to any number of horrific things slavery, for instance, that were one hundred percent legal, not illegal. That's in the real world. In the Marvel universe, the only heroic use of power, right, because we're talking about a world in which both the supervillains and the superheroes have incredible powers, the only heroic
use of power is the protection of the powerless. Legally speaking, superheroes break the law all the time, Like if we look at the MCU in Ironman, the movie Ironman, Tony Stark invades a sovereign country or several of the airspace of maybe several sovereign countries to carry it out an
unsanctioned attack. That's probably a declaration of war. If who was in the real world using unlicensed advanced weaponry killing a bunch of people, Yes, they're terrorists to save the lives of the local townsfolk and civil War Captain America and his insurgents are actively thumbing their nose at the Cecovia Cords, which were agreed upon by many, many, many nations in the un Black Widow, of course, has never traveled without several forged passports. I don't think those are
on the up and up. Peter Parker law to drone strike on his fucking students's fellow classmates Vision and Scarlet, which were fugitives. Bruce Banner destroyed Harlem and an entire university building. Kate Bishop hacked into the cellular networks to
locate Clint's phone and blew up a van. We can go on on on and on in this context, right, superheroes are kind of like the post war evolution of the bandit trope, the bandit character, the best example of which being Robin Hood who stole from the rich and gapes to the poor. And will dive deeper into that idea and that topic when we take a deeper look at Clinton Barton himself later on in the series, when doing so wouldn't spoil any potential reveals about learning about
Clint's backstory within the MCU. So, in the context of Marvel, what does criminal mean then, if even the heroes are constantly breaking the law and are in fact, you know,
if you want to be technical about it, criminals. It means any person or group motivated by the pursuit of wealth and power, mostly wealth, though for its own sake, right, what separates Tony Stark from Obadias day Arnie is Tony wants to use his wealth to make suits of armor to defend an avenge the powerless, while Obadiastin wants to make a bunch of suits to make a bunch of money.
Right.
The Vulture had some pretty trenchant critiques of the MCU's version of capitalism and Spider Man Homecoming, And he was at one point, you know, just like a struggling small business owner, blue collar guye And in the end he had millions of dollars, He had a nice house, he had a nice car. He wanted to continue to do that. He wanted to send his daughter to a great school
while having millions of dollars left over. Right, So let's start our quick overview of organized crime with the Tracksuit Mafia. They debuted in Matt Fraction and David Aya's character to defining Hawkeye series, and they're essentially a very very low level street gang who all wear track suits, of course, made up of Eastern European guys, and they engage in mainly street level stuff, you know, extortion, beating people up,
slum lord activities, shakedowns, and so on. Probably the first organized crime group in the Marvel universe was the Maggia, who are an Italian mob with various international rackets and of course a strong presence in the United States, particularly New York City. They are a group who were founded by cult members cultists who worship the demon Sitanish, who is a creation of the dread Dormamu Dormamu. I've come to bargain. They are clearly the Maggia based on the
real life Italian mafia. They have a commission of bosses who manage the direction of the organization. They prize and value pure Italian bloodlines, and they are involved in traditional real life mafia activities narcotic sec traffic and gambling, loan sharking, and so on. Their primary rival in Marvel comics is the Fisk Organization, the crime syndicate of the absolutely enormous big, big, big Boy, big Daddy, diabolical guy Wilson Fisk, the kingpin
of crime. Kingpin is in the comics is just like he's not superpowered, but he is huge and really really really strong. Anyway. In the comics, Fisk, you know, rises from kind of obscure beginnings to in a brutal fashion subdue the various crime families that are operating in New York forging them to get into you know, one highly centralized, ruthless organization which spans both criminal and legitimate enterprises. So
what does that mean. In addition to stuff like you know, arms dealing, human trafficking, narcotics, gambling, etc. The Kingpin also runs his legitimate business arm called Fisk Industries, which does a bunch of legitimate stuff, including owning a fifty percent stake in the company Damage Control with Tony Stark. Tony Stark owns the other fifty percent of Damage Control. Yes, that's right. In the comics, Tony willingly became a business partner of the Kingpin of crime, Wilson Fisk. Tony, what
the fuck are you doing now? Damage Control? You may know. Damage Control is a company that basically goes in and does salvage and construction work after these big superhero battles take place. So the Chaitari attack New York City, damage Control comes in and they clean everything up, and they salvage all the Chatari weaponry and they ship it off to ostensibly the government, but as we've seen, who really knows.
And by the way, great racket for Tony Stark, who on the one hand, is taking part as Iron Man in these battles, causing some of this damage, and on the other end of that is then profiting from the cleaning up of the mess that he helped make great shit from Tony Stark, a true genius and a pioneer. Kingpinn, of course, is the primary antagonist for many notable street level New York City based heroes, including Spider Man, Punisher, Luke Cage, an Iron Fist, and in particular, Daredevil. Daredevil
is his number one foil. Another syndicate with connections in the comics to Daredevil and Myo Lopez is The Hand. The Hand is a quasi religious cabal of ninjas with roots that go back centuries. Matt Murdoch's college girlfriend, Electra, a Greek national who Matt met on campus, was once part of and then a target of the Hand, and
that brings Matt into conflict with them. In writer Brian Michael Bendis and artist David Finch's New Avengers run, the Ronan is recommended by Daredevil to Captain America, who then recommends Ronan to the New Avengers, who are heading to Japan to do a mission. They're like, here, I've got somebody recommended to me by Matt Murdock. It's this shadowy person. I don't know who it is, but they call themselves the Ronan, dressed all in black, and they're really good.
They know about the Hand, they know how to fight them. So Ronan goes over helps them out. They fight the Hand and Hydra and then eventually that person on masks and we discover that the Ronan is in fact my Lopez Bomb Bomb Bomb. And finally, speaking of criminal enterprises run by demons, there is the Roxon Corporation, a too big to fail energy conglomerate and one of the largest
corporations in the Marvel universe. Rocks On began as your standard you know, like oil and natural gas business, but evil, but even more evil than like in real life. Rox On provided some of the funds, some of the early funds that helped launch Shield. They have mined for energy sources on you know everyone when are on Earth strip mining as well. They're not just doing oil and natural gas, they're doing any kind of energy source, any kind of rare material, any kind of mineral, All of that stuff
they do. And so they have done that also in the Sabage Land where they strip mined for vibranium, among other things. They've done it on Mars, and under the leadership of CEO Dario Ager, who is secretly the magical Minotaur of Legend and in alliance with Malachis, the Accursed, a big bad of thor Roxon went on to exploit the natural resources of the various realms that Malachith would conquer. So Malachis like, Hey, I'm about to conquer the Ten Realms.
It's going to be fucking awesome. Dario or Ager, if you want to get in on this, There's a bunch of rare materials on there that I think would be really profitable. You can come to any of the various ten Realms after I conquer them and just like strip mind to your heart's content. And Dario is like, yes, it's criminality, an organized crime in the Marvel universe. Up next to the endgame. You could not live with your turkey hangover. So where did that bring you back to us in the endgame?
Now?
Today we were playing another round of Assembly Required, in which Sing and I will pick a character or item from episodes two or three from Hawkeye for a randomly assigned mundane mission. Chris, what is the mission today?
All right?
So, in honor of the sweet driving skills of Clinton Barton this week, You guys, man, is you have to pick someone from these episodes to take you to lax like you know, so let's say east Side's lax rush hour traffic, your flights in an hour.
Who are you picking to get you there on timely?
Boy?
I think he went first last time, so I'll go first this time. Yeah, I'll tell you who it's not gonna be. It's not gonna be Enrique because this guy's gonna fucking bend my ear off the whole time I'm on my phone trying to like check into my flight, trying to like text people last minute stuff. I don't need Enrique like giving me his whole life story and
the all of that. I am gonna go with. Gosh, you know what, he's a criminal, okay, but Kazzi seems like a real stand up dude and m I understand that their affront trust to Brow is a front, but they got to drive those trucks, and that suggests to me that Kazie and the other tracksuit fellas are you know, responsible good drivers with like a Class B license whatever you need to drive one of those. So I'm gonna go Kazi from the tracksuit Mavia. Who are you gonna pick?
I'm gonna go with uh King's meaty left hand. I think if you you throw that thing out of a window and you do this, the traffic is parting. You throw your hand up, You're getting you know, taxi is not gonna stop if you throw that big meaty paul up. So I think there's a real good answer. There's a real good way that can make clear the lanes for myself and also a hell of taxi if I need to.
Oh yeah, Wilson fizz cars, just get out of the way. Yeah, but he's coming through. That's it for the endgame. Who do you think one? And who would you pick to take you to lax? Hit hashtag xr N game and give us your pick. Big thanks to the number one bro Cody Ziggler for joining us on x ray vision. Cody, what do you have to plug? Where can people find you?
You know what? If you find me on social media's at yafer Zig. If you love listening to nerdy podcast like this one, check out the dark We podcast. I hope Yeah, my boy Bertie Reid. We talk about almost the exact same thing, only we say the N word way more because we're where we both got the cars and we can say it yeah. And you know, if you want to check out some like other like Street Level comics, definitely check out ma Wad's Daredevil run like
It's it's really great. It's sort of the same way that that Factionauja have re sort of reinvented the New Hawkeye. That's a great way that reinmit the Daredevil and amazing Spider Man's seventy nine and eighty Baby they drive pick it up Baby Beyond.
It's it's really great and what a fun arc that's been.
Thanks man.
If you want to learn more about what we explore in each episode, check out our listeners guide to all things x ray Vision in the show notes, or on our website. Catch the next episode on December tenth. We're also thrilled to announced at x ray Vision has officially entered the late twentieth century with our very own email address. It is x ray at crooked dot com. That's x ray at crooked dot com. Hit us up with questions for an upcoming mail bag that we're gonna be doing.
If you enjoyed our new nerd out segment on Star Trek last week, and you want to share your own favorite nerd do on the show, drop us an email about what your pitch might be and we will be like, yeah, do it, send us the thing. We'll send you instructions about how to do that. More detail ale instructions can be found in the episode show notes Again. The email is x ray at croocket dot com. That's x ray
at criocket dot com. Just absolutely drown us in a tsunami of mail, like as if we were Vernon Dursley trying to keep you from getting your owl post letter. Folks, give us the five star ratings on whatever platform you need to do such a thing. X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. It's executive produced by me Jason
Sepcion and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Resident and Carlton Gillespie are our consulting producers, and our editing and sound design is by Vassili's Phystopoulos. Thank you to Brian Vasquez for our theme music.
See you next Time, Full Things, Full Time must say, oh Zi wolves in my head, that's my favorite.
One kid.
You don't like that one believe buys the dragons. The imagined dragons are fantastic. You have to know, okay,