Live at South by Southwest: X-Ray Vision Talks Multiverses + Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight Trailer Reactions

Warning, this podcast contains spoilers. We're gonna be at south By Southwest talking about the multiverse and its depictions in pop culture and comics and movies and TV and such. If you don't want to be spoiled, be careful and beware when you enter here.

Yeah.

Okay, gosh, hello, let me do hello, Hello south By. My name is using except on this story tonight. Welcome to x ray Vision, the Crooked podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, pop culture. We're here live at south By Southwest. Yeah, I've got so much coffee in my bloodstream right now, and we're going

It's been lovely.

This is my first time in Austin, my first time at south By. I have a lot of green tea standing through my veins.

We're heavily armed. Now. It's wonderful to be here. Okay, let's talk about Let's go to the news previously on should we play the trailer first or should we just talk about it first?

Let's just play it first? Play? Okay, let's play.

Can we play the latest trailer of Disney Plus's Moonnight series? And I'm gonna watch it as we play it? Thanks Chris, Thank you.

Sounds dramatic. The fun of Moonnight is getting introduced to a new superhero in a new.

World, a real legitimate character study. I can't tell the difference between My Way, Two Knives and Dreams. Moon Night is a spectacular character, has got an incredibly unique visual look. Our job was to kind of put a lens on the things that had the most dramatic juice and ultimately take the mental health aspect incredibly seriously.

I am Stephen the way you. We're tackling the story. We learn about Stephen and then learn about Mark. What's wrong with you?

Mark?

Why did you call me?

Mak?

And they're the same person.

Ethan Hawk, one of the elite hat guys. Yeah, always always has a brilliant hat of our times. So Disney recently shared a press release for this series, mod Night, in which they stress that they're going to make sure to accurately and responsibly depict dissociative identity disorder, which we've been saying is important, that's important to do.

It's really important to do.

I'm very interested that they are sticking with the use of this terminology. I have had some very interesting conversations with people who have the ID, and it is a very specific mental health syndrome that is very much based in your childhood and the.

Trauma generated by trauma.

Generated by traumatic childhood. So I will be interested to see the route they go. I am glad that they.

Want to treat it respectfully, and they have explored it recently in the comics as like explore the events that created Yeah, Mark's d id he witnessed something terrible and this caused his consciousness to be traumatized and this is the result of this. How this interacts with the supernatural aspects I think will be that's really the key, will

Yeah, I like the terminology of standalone is very loaded slash meaningless in the MCU.

It could mean that they don't have a good contract, it could mean that they're not sure how it's going to be received.

But I kind of like it in the terms of the mental health aspect, because if they really want to commit to exploring that in a meaningful way that brings a kind of representation we haven't seen before, then they don't need to worry about deeply connecting it to the rest of it. But I also think this is We've talked about this a little bit, but definitely seems like an inroad for Marvel.

Yes. So, moon Night's first appearance was in the seventies series Werewolf by Night, starring the incredibly named Jack Russell, who was was a werewolf the Werewolf by Night as they say, and Moonnight, in his first in in that air condition, was just like a mercenary who was kind of like boondoggled into fighting the Werewolf by Night, was given a costume by some mysterious, shadowy rich guys who were like, hey, put on this costume, go fight this werewolf.

And yeah, we've kind of talked about this a lot, but the comics are varied at best in quality and taste, so this is a very interesting. This is definitely I think to look to Embarku in Black Panther and the way that they reimagined that character and brought so much incredible theft and humor and complexity, much.

Of that thanks to Winston Juke.

I think that is really the basis of what they're going to need to do with this character to avoid a lot of that the problematic stuff. And also as well, like I just want to say, the creator of Well by Night has often said that they did not know Jack Russell was a dog breed and it was.

Just a confidency, yes, yes, the.

Thing that like, there's also there's also the you know, the creator of Monight has also said, like, oh, the Batman parallels, that was like we didn't you know, like yes, he uses like boomerangs. Similarly, is like a weird rich guy who dresses it, you know, like in a very specific costume. It's but it's it's not. And then he fights criminals punches them in the face, but that's It's like, come on.

I know, well, I've been thinking about this very famous.

Star, I know, and yeah, and that kind of the Werewolf by Night thing is particularly resonant right now because we know that the Halloween special, which is allegedly gonna start Gail Garcie Ebanow as a werewolf that is apparently in the working title of Werewolf by Night, but that will likely be changed by the time it hits screens, going to be directed by Michael Giacchino, who just did the incredible score for The Batman, so that it is

That support I would go out. I'll say that I don't actually think the MC has ever made a truly bad movie.

I know, I love the like good yeah, and well the end of that movie spoiler alert, a certain character Kit Harrington play by Kit Harrington.

His name is Dame Whitman.

In the comics, he's known as the back Night. He finds a magical sword that's evil and will turn anyone into a killer. Very artifact heavy, which we'll get into the importance of artifacts in our next trailer. And at the end, Blade mhashell Ali is there and he says, you know you're not ready for that, and I think that Moonnight will connect to that. We see him and

Let's go to Miss Marvel the Miss Marvel trailer. Get a little bit more up Lovely Q the next trailer, Please Thank You take choice to have The Weekend is the soundtrack. It's very cocaine heavy. Artist for a story about it. It was like that coming of age.

I was like, totally, it fits very well, but the connotations are strange.

This is a wonderful trailer.

It's so lovely.

Okay, So first off, I just want to say I get it.

You get what? High school? Kamala Tamala another adventure shirt? Cute? She thinks I'm some kind of weird how you were weird? Boys? Excuse me? Yeah, you're kind of on my shirt.

Sorry, but you're staring at the window in your little fantasy land.

Kamala, Hey, already really like you.

I have to figure out my whole future before launchers.

Does something happen here?

You know?

Why did you hear something?

What does it feel like?

Cosmic?

I always thought I wanted this kind of life, but I.

Never imagined any of this. Do you even know what you are?

I have a super heir out okay so much? I love her too. Iman villani as the title character Miss Marvel, created by Bishop kelis written for sex education really really funny British sitcom Loki Four Weddings and a Funeral. Okay, So in the comics, Miss Marvel it gets her powers because of the explosion of a terrogen bomb which contained the Tarrigan Mist, which is in humans' powers are unleashed. Yes,

Slash Nega band slash.

Nega bands, probably some sort of amalgamation of the two, which is a pree artifact.

Yeah.

I think that something that's really telling in listening to this trailer along with you guys that you luckily got to watch, is when somebody asked her how it feels, she says, cosmic, right, and the quantum bands are a cosmic artifact that Eon, this kind of ancient space creature in his daughter Epoch, would bestow among people that they

On the lamp with the embiggend. And you see that in big in Hand.

That's her big thing in bigg And from Simpson's you know, the famous Jedediah Springfield episode, and that's what she says.

She says, embiggan and her hand gets really big.

And and so they had to bring that aspect in in a different way that isn't too close to read Richard's from the Fantastic Four. Mister Fantastic, he's got those elastic kind of powers in the comics.

Her powers are very similar.

And so I think this is their way of doing something that's a little bit different, a little bit more unique, and a little bit more like comars.

So theory about where these bands come from. We saw in you were talking in the green room about how the ten Rings. It was like this ancient artifact turned out. It was like alien shit. But and I think it's going to be similar here, maybe from the time from maybe I think this is I think it's going to be a similar thing here where it's like a Richard Ryder type figure escapes the destruction of a planet something

So yeah, So something that we talk about a lot on just in general as friends and on the show is Marvel and DC like love to rip each other.

Off, get one over it, whichever.

They never stopped doing it.

Sanos is obviously the biggest example, but it's off from Dark Side by the Moonlight Batman, you know, and and Marvel did something incredibly small and savvy and lose sing. They lost most of their characters because of licensing deals, and they made Dan their cinematic bad guy before Dark Side, So by the time Dark Side showed up in DC, it looked derivative, right, So there is a big chance

Famously and begins his hands hand.

He's making a hand, He's making a hammer. He has the power of full imagination. But it's always just the giant hats every time.

Like, so I think that there's I think you're right.

I think this is going to be something where Kamala is worthy to have the band. It's she could be chosen herself, or something that I think could be really nice. We see in this trailer of her sort of looking she's either hiding them in a box or finding them in a box in her attic. And a lot of the comic, which was created by Sana Armat Stephen Whacka, you know.

The brilliant g Wilow Wilson.

Adrian Lfono was the first series artist, and Jamie McKelvey designed that costume, so like, it's a really incredible stuff. And in those comics, a lot of the conflict comes from Kamala and the legacy of being a superhero and the legacy of being a Muslim teenager. And I would love to see this kind of maybe these bands have been in her family, maybe her grandma was someone that the alien trusted to have them, but she didn't know what they were, or she she wasn't interested.

In pursuing that.

I think there's a really interesting potential of building a legacy in because they made they designed these bracelets to match Kamala's costume, which is a kind of like very Muslim inspired outfit, and I think there's something really interesting that we could see with that.

Yeah, I think that I think that you're right in that she will be chosen by whatever is in the bands. Like, clearly they weren't just thinking other people must have worn these, so why didn't they access the powers? Okay, so this is there are scenes in this trailer of you know, black SUVs pulling up and what we you would imagine or some sort of like government agency that is, we saw Damage Control hunting hunting for these weapons. Are they

I think you are onto something here, because so one of the things that the Miss Marvel comic did really well, and a lot of comics at this time, which was the novel Now imprint, they did this really ground level storytelling, brought to life kind of real issues. So there's a great Miss Marvel arc about gentrification, but really the gentrification is being done by Hydra.

And it's this kind of evil scheme.

Right after Strange had the same issue, but it was like demons that were trying to buy his uh buy the Sanctum and turned it into like I.

Think, I think it would be one of those really beautiful ones, like the It's like our giant, old, beautiful building. But I think that the Nice Agents, if that.

Is a thing, it would be a really good if. If if that would be a really good play.

On a current issue that America is having with ice and taking ice. And in the comics Arcade in certain stuff like the Might Carry Age of X I love Mike Kerry is one of my favorite writers. In that arcade runs a mutant prison where he's putting people with who are mutants, and in that it's very extreme. It's a dystopian world where Charles never existed, Charles Xavier psyclopists killing people with the laser eyes like it's it they

Right now, I think for our four figures who appear out of the mist, I think that that is our whether they're Cree or someone else, I think those are our four aliens who are like, oh, the bands are activated exactly, we GPS located it to Jericity. Let's go get them back. And I think those are going to be the people who, you know, teach miss Kahn about the lineage of these bands and help her find her place as a hero in this in this firmament. And so are they Cree? Are they?

They are they allies? Are they enemies? Like?

Also, I think something we kind of haven't really impressed upon enough is like if these are quantum bands or Egga bands and are directly connected to the cree. It's really nice because in the comics and in the show, as you can see, like Kamala's biggest hero is Carol Danvers, who is cree.

So it adds a really nice.

Layer and connection to the kind of hero who made her want to be a hero.

What are the chances that they that this is how they introduce in humans, like, not the ABC version of the Humans, this is the MCU in Humans with good wigs.

I would be in the whigs. Don't don't give me the trauma.

They made a show budget, They made show with majuicas Prehensi hair, and they shaved their hair first.

I understand that this space is changing quickly and that the budgets are not like the budget numbers. It's not like what people are used to. But you just have to spend a lot of money on ways if you want.

To, but you have to do.

I think I would have been of the mind for a long time that we wouldn't see an inhuman. I don't think they're going to make Kmala an inhuman. I

So with if if are Nice Agent is related to Arcade here again we're seeing the kind of sprinkling of like X Men stuff into this universe, which raises a question like how do the X Men appear? Which and then you had a really isn't.

That the biggest question?

That is the huge question like is it going to be? And question basically breaks down to two sub questions, which is is it going to be all at once, like quickly we're going to see them soon they're just gonna like pop in or are they gonna lay a ground work where you understand about muting oppression, We understand about like you know, Weapon X, they retcon the Super Social Program and to being some sort of offshoot of Weapon X, and actually like people have been experimented on brutally, not

Logan canon of the movie just titled Logan where they have the kids in the Weapon X program.

That feels very empty.

Youish that feels like it could really be more existing.

Do they do the Wanda mashing up of the world.

So I wonder if I have seen recently a theory online. I cannot take credit. It's too good.

I'm sad I can't take credit because I love a wild theory.

I've seen a theory online. It claims that.

The MCU as we know it is actually just a house of m style projection that wanted to create it to make a world without mutants. So once that shatters, you would just have mutants existing in the world. That's very cool. It would absolutely shake up the MCU. And I don't know if Kevin Faggy's ready to do that.

Is Kevin Faggy ready to say all of this didn't matter, but it isn't real. But here's the thing. Hasn't the TVA already established that it's not real? Right? Exactly like the introduction of the TVA already kind of said all of this has happened before. We've been doing this endgame the time heist, all that stuff has happened multiple times. It's just happening in cycles in a very controlled way, and so.

All of it kind of didn't exist.

Sort of exists or matter.

I think the most telling thing is like, so No Way Home was kind of this unbelievable cultural phenomenon where they somehow managed to recreate the anticipation and energy of Endgame just a few years later without ten years leading right. I think that the fact that they're already trying to replicate that with Doctor Strange. Oh look it's Patrick Stewart,

A long time, especially in the current that's tim where you know, World War three years.

And yeah, I think that.

I thought that that Fantastic four and then maybe you'd get the ex Men in five years, and you know, we'd get a little San Diego comic con.

They'd play like no. Now, I actually think like, I think it's fast.

I think fast.

I talked to Strange and the multi us madness could just shake up everything and we could learn that MCU is a projection, or we could suddenly we could have that moment that a lot of fans have thought, let there be mutants, like, let there be people with powers instead of no more.

I'm coming around to that too, because I I was firmly during uh, you know, Falcon in the Winter Soldier era, which feels like a million years ago, but I think it was only like ten twelve months ago, some months ago. I was pretty convinced, Okay, they're gonna like they're gonna, uh, they're gonna kind of lay this, you know, lay the ground work, make us understand that like after you know, Civil War and the Accords and all and and the blip that people are like, actually, maybe powered people are

Now.

They've been doing that for a while with like Captain America Civil War, but they're they're really doing it now with Uh, with Noay Home, with Quantum Mania, with Doctor Strange. You're all going to be Team Up movies. But where is the actual team team? We don't have an Avengers team Fantastic four on the horizon. But I feel like they will introduce the X Men sooner than we think.

I think so too, especially because our next team is probably going to be the Young Avengers in whatever guys, whether they call them the West Coast Avengers, whether they call them the Young Avengers, but that could be in

Do secret Wars really easily.

I'll just say that as a as a comic fan, this has been a fantastic period of my life. To go to me seriously, it's been really great. But and I've loved every second of it. But if when they bring in the X Men, I will lose my shit, I know, lose it.

It's hard to think about it. I'll truly receive it.

I mean I'll lose it.

I know this is gonna make a lot of people in there. I feel really old or really young. Dude, that X Men movie came out twenty two years ago.

That ship old.

That feels to me like that feels.

To me still like a real It's like, oh, that's when superhero movie started, Sam Raimi Spider Man, you know, I mean.

That's two decades ago. Like that there is time for a new X Men movie.

I truly lose casting the.

Moment that we see I know we're going on an X Men tangum, but we both love the X Men, so it's fine, who what do you think? Okay, So when the MC comes, do you think it's gonna be my choice? I know my choice is giant size? But do you think they're gonna do classic five giant size?

Well, okay, I think that it has to be. I think you have to have Cyclops. I think you have to have storms, so it's giants. You have to have Wolverine, right, and I think he's going to be a very important character that ties in a lot of like the Super Soldier program, like actually grounds it in a lot of the stuff that you already happened, Like we'll find out that actually there were offshoots to the Super Soldier program, and Logan is part of that but also a mutant.

Uh.

And I think you have to have obviously, Charles Magneto's got to be in there as like the foil And then I don't who do you think?

No, I think you're right. I just to me, I think that's the way you believe.

I don't know I love.

I think I think the most realistic version is a melding of Giants right and of ninety two, because.

That is the same film people grew up with.

I also think that if we look at how the MCU is now, there is a space to have multiple iterations, Like you can have a younger class who are in Charles's school or Storm school.

Maybe Storm will be the headmistress. We don't know where.

Introducing Charles and specifically Magneto in this timeline with the sliding timeline is a very complex proposition and they're going to have to work really hard to work out how to make it work. So there's I think there's a lot of different ways where we could see different generations of them. I think Storm might actually be the first X men that they introduce because they have she has

I don't think that's how it should be done.

But she has a brilliant connection to Wakanda, and that would be such a great space to introduce her in Wakanda Forever, where we're going to be potentially going to the Savage Land.

We're going to potentially be meeting nay More.

I think Storm is such an iconic character and such a beloved X Men and also a beloved hero and right, I think.

She could be off off ust major X man that we meet.

I agree with you. Uh, this was a really fun segment, and now we should move on because I think how much time do we have left? God, the half of it.

Half of it was just talking about both of those things are relative to the multivast side.

Great when we're back more multiverse. Okay, so let's talk about multiverses. Then let's talk about multiverses, parallel universes, all this stuff that is happening. Uh. First of all, let's talk about our favorite multiverses. The multiverse is really it's a fascinating construct in that it is a way to basically cheat and include like every iteration of every character that you want. You can have them fight against each other. Both DC and Marvel have their versions of the multiverse.

A month, so many comics coming out every week, and there were so many different creators that was no cohesive.

There is no overarching like soditor. And so you had like a Superman over here doing this, and then you had a younger Superman.

And you had Superman in Lowis Layton, Superman's girlfriend, and you had and then you had Dark Knight Batman. You know, you had all these different versions of the characters, and DC created the multiverse as a way to explain it away, right.

And so then you have that you have Crisis on Infinite Earth's, which is DC's attempt to be like, Okay, we got to like team this somehow by creating like this massive multiversal war so we can.

Stream line into one timeline where we can control whatever what is going on.

So let's talk about it. What are our favorite favorite multi versus? Would you like to start?

I will?

I will start just because it's on the topic of what my I love the Marvel multiverse, because the Marvel Multiverse in the comics is one of my absolute favorite things, which is something that is almost entirely defined by fans. Fans were the people who created the Earth designations. You know, you've heard of Earth six one six. You've got the Earth where there's zombie Marvel stuff happened, You've got that.

It was an.

Offhanded mention, and fans latched onto it and they were like, that's the main Marvel universe. And to me, that constant conversation between fans and creators is what makes this stuff exciting.

So I love that Marvel had.

This messy world where there's so many different versions of their characters and all these different teams, and fans just started organizing it for them, to the point where Marvel was like, oh, yeah, that's right.

They were the multiverse.

Yeah, that's what's We were so hard to create all these different asks for you.

You're so lucky. And I think that.

Is just so cool and Also I love that because of that, we get stories that actually play into the multiverse. We talk a lot about secret wars like the Jason Arrow and Asad Ribbik big stuff, and like that is so fun where I'll never forget, Like that spoiler alert. The story is like they're trying to get They're trying to make everything part of this main universe, so they're going to destroy all these other worlds, right.

And the way that they showed at.

The end, what they really wanted to do was bring Males Morales into the main Marvel universe because he's brilliant and they knew. So what they did was they on the final page turn Miles wakes up. He's in that universe, and they changed the lettering style.

That's all it was.

It went from mixed case to caps, which is what they do in the main Marvel universe. And I remember reading that and being like, oh my god, Like I know that he is in this world now, and I kind of love the way that it gives creators a control over, Like.

This was really cool. And it was meant to just be this.

Throwaway thing or it's meant to only exist in the Ultimate Universe, but I love it. So actually they jumped through a multiversal portal and guess what, now they're in the main MCU.

Like that to me is very powerful and fun.

I love Secret War, Secret Wars, the c Aburbic version of Secret Wars, because it's basically like the Illuminati, this collection of dudes in the most powerful Dudes, the power Dudes of the Marvel Universe, were like, Okay, nobody can know what's happening with these incursions, like various parallel universes are crashing into ours. How do we fix this? I know, we kill everyone, we totally destroy their entire reality, and but we don't. We can't tell anybody we're doing this

Yeah, and you end up with like God Emperor Do, which is like the most badass name villain.

Of all time.

But I just I think that I love that the Marvel one is kind of as much created by random creators making all these different stories in an age where comics were coming out, you know, hundreds of thousands of comics every year, and it was sort of shaped by fans being like, well, we need this to make sense, and Marvel was just like, yeah, that's what we meant to do.

Like that to me, is so cool about what's one of your faves.

Into the Spider Verse was just like, I mean, it's just a adrenaline shot of a movie that is so so, so so fun. They did the Multiverse before them, so you managed to do it, which is great.

They likely introduced the Multiverse to mass audiences. That is, most people's understanding of the Multiverse is through that beautifully made movie.

It's it's a heart wrenching movie that hits your that hits your feelings when you least expected to do that. It is a adrenaline shot of a movie with like some of the most insane action, and I mean, when Miles does his leap, it is like you want to erupt out of the out of your seat. It's so so fun.

It also did one of the things that I think these kind of stories can do so well, where like this is a random kind of comparison, but in New X Men, the Grand Marrison Frank quietly. But they introduced this different version of Cyclops who's kind of flawed, and that was the first time I liked Cyclops, and.

I thought that was I think he's like too much of a much of a god boy for me.

But like I like the I like the flowed like he's having a psychic affair, and I think that something Spider Verse does that's so brillian.

Is it?

It takes the You know, we've always seen Peter Parker. He's emotional, he's this ground level hero. You can relate to him, anyone can be like him, but he still has this kind of sheen of a young boy who doesn't really he doesn't really make mistakes, but he's always putting his family at risk.

But I loved the version of Peter B.

Parker where you actually got to see what does it do to you when you have always put your family at risk and you've always like sacrificed your life and it just doesn't work out Like that was one of the most unexpectedly like hilarious also like heart wrenching things that they introduced in that movie.

The other thing I love about Multiverse is just like we've talked about it in a little bit here, but how much Marvel and DC just rip each other off shamelessly. So it's like part of the dynamic of liking this stuff is just being okay with the fact that, like, you know.

I'm not gonna say it's one of my favorites, right because it's not necessarily.

Something I go back to all the time.

But like I will say that in the fun of the ripping off conversation that most of the reason that anyone who just randomly watches TV or isn't really into comics knows what a multiverse is is because of the CW shows.

But you've been doing a.

Multiverse for like ten years, and now Marvel came in and they're like, hey, we're doing a multiverse, and everyone's like, oh my god, wow, And I'm just like, you guys are so cheeky. Like the cub has literally been seeding this stuff with like moms who love Green Arrow and people who don't necessarily read comics.

They had a crisis on Infinite Earth's event where they.

Literally whatever, yeah, you know what I mean, And then when they did the TV version, they literally had people from the movies come to the TV and that was like so groundbreaking, even if you know it's a little bit corny, it's it's its own world. But like, I just think it's so interesting that how these kind of things feed off of each other.

Yeah, just so many people.

Their understanding of that is probably because oh yeah, I remember that one episode of that of Arrow. I mean they had stuff in the c W. I think one of the most interesting things that DC has always done. They the old thing that we used to say, Marvel movie is terrible in the nineties. You know, it was Captain America. I love that bad Captain American movie.

You'd be like DC though, in the Hulk Special or even you know, even the Fox you know, Da Devil Elektra bring Me to life one of the best scenes of a movie of all time.

Not for the right not for the right reason.

But like we used to say, the Marvel movies, those are bad, but the DC animated movies that's what superhero movies should be. And because of that, because DC knew the quality of those, they have always basically aligned that those movies can exist in a multiversal space next to their other stuff.

And with the CW stuff.

Something I found really interesting was they actually had characters and storylines that they were doing in animated stuff that would enter into the CW live action shows, and the canon of the cartoons would be in there. So I just think it's really interesting how this kind of stuff is really experimental and it's becoming really mainstream. But it's been something that's been in the conversation for a really long time.

Really really long time. What's your next favorite multiverse?

My next favorite multiverse? There's so many, there's a multiverse of multiverses. I'm going to bring up one.

It's so silly, but we were talking about yesterday, and I love talking about like bad movies. So I when I was a kid, I watched Cube and it is a weird horror movie about these people stuck in torture cube.

But it's very terrifying.

It was a big influence on like Saw, for example, because it's all filmed in one room. But one of the sequels, Cube Zero, is a string theory film about multiverses where every cube is living alongside each other in a different universe of its own, and it's it's absolutely mind blowing and just completely ridiculous. But that's one of my favorites because I'm like that's the most horrific version of a multiverse we know.

Multi versus is, Oh, here's a different version.

Of this character we love, and in this one they're a bit silly, or they wear a different costume. And in this one, it's like in every multiverse, in every universe, you are just stuck in a torture cube.

It's just horrible.

I'm gonna I'm gonna pick DC Crisis on Infinite Earth just because it was the classic and it's interesting because like when you think about the big crossover events of that era between Marvel and DC, it's like so emblematic about like the cultures of those two companies. DC Crisis on Infinite Earth's was all about, we've got all this crazy cannon that doesn't make sense, and we just need to like actually go in and garden and like make it all make sense, because so what a creative team.

Marvelfman George Press.

That's like George Pres the that's the stuff. And then and then you had Secret Wars, which was literally just like how do we okay, cash grab time, let's go Marvel's Secret Wars, which I loved as a kid, and then in retrospect was.

Not It's it's a toy. It was to sell toys.

There's actually toys that went along with it where that are really cool.

Like it's like Spider Man, he has this weird wheel toy.

It's like a vehicle that he would be in in each of the issues that stuff. Though, I have a Secret Wars coloring book, which is one of my prized possessions, lots of Kang coloring in there. So actually that's a very It's a cash grab, but it's now a relevant cash grab, you.

Know, it's it is quite irrelevant where not to deraalist, but Kang, like where is he?

He's everywhere?

Where is where are we gonna? It's interesting because it's like Fanos, you kind of understood where he would appears.

It's hard because.

Like you feel like where was Kang in no way home right, It just makes it seems like he would have been there, So I think, I think he's got to be somewhere pulling some strings, maybe having a Thanos style end credit scene in Multiverse of Madness, because it feels like if that is a multiversal story and we're talking about these timelines being out of control or Stephen messing things up as he always does Kang is probably somewhere like this fucking guy again, like what the fuck

If you can't rearrange reality with a kid talking to you, don't do it.

It's not odd, like if.

You're you know, like, if you can't do it while someone's saying stuff to you, then just stop and don't mess with it. That's yeah, just all I'm saying, Stephen, Uh, your classic you know, the humorist of this man, it's it's he's.

He's the king of Hubris. That's the problem. Uh, your next Okay, I'm gonna go for it. I can't believe neither of us said it. You actually days of future past.

So I'm gonna take that as my next. One day's a future post.

One of my favorite things about this is a incredible story arc. You know, this thing changes the Marvel Universe in like two issues.

It's two issues, Like if that was today, they'd be like a ten issue limited series like multiple spin off yeah, like you know, like and they'd have like a point five issues that would like zero zero.

Like no, I I love that stuff.

I mean unbelievable like Iconic Creator team Chris Clairemont, John Bamboo, Tomato, Tomatow.

Terry Austin, like but just like unbelievable stuff also created a blog and he ruined it for everyone anyway, bad vibes.

But those two issues are so great and I love that.

You know that famous cover where it's like they're all dead and everyone's dead. I spoke to Luis Simonson, who's Iconic X Men Create Us Death of Superman Creator X Men editor, and she had just randomly thought that was like a funny joke to put on. She was like, that would be great when that'd be a great design, And I think that's one of the coolest things. It sums up one of the best things. That book was

I just I just think it's brilliant.

We should probably move on because we're like against the clock, but I think so those are our top three. But I will say this one thing that I will soft prediction they'll do an age of Ultron. Ultron will come back at some point. I think I Altron is in space, he uploaded his consciousness into whatever machines.

We see those ultron esque bots. He will some madness trailer, which I would say, if we imagine that kill Monger is one of the Illuminati who we see or one of the group we see in the trailer, then those are probably his Ultron bots. Bring back James Spader, Bring back James Spader. I love James Spader, I love James Vader's Ultron. I will be happy to hear his dulcet tones once again telling us.

The Internet destroyed the world.

When we're back more of our live show at south By Southwest. Okay, let's go to some mail bag questions. This is from Jamie. After watching the Doctor Strange trailer and thinking about WandaVision, Loki, what If, and No Way Home, I'm just confused about the origin of the MCU multiverse. Perfect first question for this. I had assumed that it all began with Sylvie, but there doesn't seem to be

This is the biggest question right of the novel moment, because it seems like No Way Home would be the place where you would feel the ramifications of.

Loki and your oh, all these worlds, but they seem to close it.

And my understanding is from reports that Noey Home was originally meant to come out after Doctor Strange. So I think that that changed the storyline of what was meant to happen where I'm assuming that whatever happened in Doctor Strange was meant to lead to that multiversal.

Kind of explosion in No Way Home.

I think it does all start with Sylvie and the TVA because we know that what if only exists and we know what if even though people thought it wasn't going to play much of a big part, we can see now that they were seeding a lot of big.

Stuff in Doctor Strange.

That unleashed the true multi It was like, think of it as like a bonsai tree.

But it was in a loop before and now it's in the In.

The pre Sylvie, pre Loky fashion, it was like very constrained in this very curated kind of fashion, and now it's just like wild.

Yeah, and what we see in everything we see and what if is coming from those trees that kind of swirl off what I'm really interested to see it to kind of what I want answered in along with Jamie in kind of Doctor Strange too.

Is so like, is he in trouble for what he did? In No Way Home?

Is he in trouble because a different universe version of him messed around with the timeline to try and bring back Christine and he's having to pay for it. Like I think hopefully Multiverse of Manas is going to give us those answers of how this kind of all coalesces because also kind of like what we were saying about Days of Future Past.

I think part of it is they kind of throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Yeah, what did people?

Most?

Loki and Sylvia are the ones that people really gravitated to, so it's probably them.

And listen, a classic classic Doctor Strange DNA is he gets very very powerful and he fucks something up and then they have to depower him and he has to learn his lesson and then he does it again. It looks like that's why we're going, and I think that's exactly where we're going. Is like that, you know, like listen, Uh, he's not the source of Supreme anymore, which I think is a great choice.

Yes, one is always meant to be.

Stephen a wild guy, but I think, as we saw, you know, with with Spider Man, here he is messing with the multiverses.

He should kid get into help.

He's right to help a kid get into college.

It's not college scandal, Stephen.

And again with what I think is brilliant about like the characterization here is it was ostensibly to get a kid into college, but really it was because, like Stephen Strange wanted to do it is an egomaniac. Oh, that sounds really cool, alter reality.

Try everyone on.

That sounds like a very very responsible thing that I can do.

Uh.

And then and this caused all of this, so, uh, what about the fine question the Watcher. Can the Watcher and the TVA co exist? Yeah?

Yeah, they can co exist.

I think the idea of the Watcher so I get. I think the Watcher is very intriguing to people because like in the show, he has this really clearly defined omnipient on the opposent kind of space.

But in the comics again just the funny like narrative device that used to introduce these different.

Comics and then has come on to have more of a person kind of persona. So I think he can exist because the idea is he actually exists outside of space and time.

The Watcher is almost a god in that way.

It doesn't the TVA can exist and be pruning, but the Watcher's just watching him being like oh, they shouldn't be prune in.

But he doesn't do anything, He's not like that's a bad idea.

Sarah asks I was listening to a recent interview with Anita Hill where she mentioned that she was a fan of Stanley and always wanted him to make a superhero character based on her, and honestly, who deserves to be mortalized as a superhero more than a need a Hill. It made me wonder whether Marvel or comics generally ever did depict real historical people events all the time.

Yeah, they love to do that.

They love to do that, like presidents Jimmy Carter is it's so ready like.

They did a lot.

But when Obama got in, they made like a bunch of Obama covers and stuff for.

Some really really in retrospect cringe worthy like reactions to nine to eleven.

And that's like a very famous Marvel did a very famous anthology about that that is touch and go.

Maybe maybe let this before we just like jump into this.

But yeah, I mean they were really into that.

And there's even like there's even kind of precedent for comics throughout history where publishers have just done comics that are like biographical comic issues about famous people.

So, yes, that's a good question, and it is true.

And now that you know it's true, you probably notice it when you're going through a back issue and you'll be like, Lol, why is this person in here?

Let's see one more and then we'll go to the audience. If you had Infinity Gauntlet control over the MCU, and it would be dangerous one thing, casting, story effects, etc. What would that be for y'all? If X Men Dark Phoenix six blakes in nineteen ninety two, and he assumed that since the original X Men came out in two thousand, it must have taken place roughly at the same timeframe, what do you think could have caused Xavier and Magneta to age so much?

The big question?

Okay, so if you had Infinity Gauntlet ConTroll over the MCU and can change one thing?

Okay, so would I have like my real answer on like a very small like could happen would probably be like, I think Emily Blunt was originally meant to place Black Widow, and I think that would have been very cool. But if I had real Infinity go on the thing they mentioned the wet effects, if I could click I would make every effect in the MCU practical.

That would be my thing.

I would be like, all in camera, in camera, build a set I want to see.

I want to see no green screen, right, that'd.

Be surprised, actual silly string come out of like a like an honestly shooter.

I want to see Kevin Faige in an ultimate universe.

He's like, I didn't know we could do CG instead of saying I didn't know we could shoot on location. So I'm like, yeah, I want everything to be in camera. That's that pract that's the way to go. That's the MCUISH.

I don't even know, gosh, what would I do. I would probably if I had MCU, I would bring I would find a way to get the X Men in like earlier, and I would have more like Weapon X, which is the program that created Woverine. I would have more clues about that. I would more. I would tie it directly to the Super sold such.

A foundational part of introducing like heroes and mutants.

While and I would have I would have like him a picture of Logan like hanging in some flashback of the Super Soldier program where it's like, oh yeah, the Canadian version of Captain America. It never really worked out. He went psychotic and we had to lock him in a cell somewhere after we bombed out. Yeah, and so that's what I would do, because that is I can't I just can't wait for the X Men to come to the Marvel Universe. Okay, let's go to does anybody do you have a question?

You can stand behind the microphone if you cared to ask, thank you, no brave question.

So I'm going to age myself a little bit. My dad was a fan of the ninety two X Men.

Yeah, that was a great, great parenting.

Yeah, I'm watching it for the first time, and especially with the X Men ninety two announcement, I'm trying to ask, like every person on TikTok or like in the comic space, what do you think the like continuity or implications of the ninety two reboot or remake or whatever, What's what's the canonicity? What's that going to do to the MCU, especially with also the Doctor Strange rumor that he's going to be in like the chair from the Profession in the Chair.

So my understanding of the show is that it's going to directly continue from when ninety two, and so I think that I love that question because I would hope I think think that canon wise, I don't necessarily know that the MCU wants to get into like animation being canon, but I do think that the reason they're doing this show right now is to reintroduce the X.

A new audience maybe.

Didn't grow up with it, and to yeah, exactly, you're you're the target, and basically to something that me and Jason have talked about a lot about why we think that show works, why the Spider Man animated series works, why Batman animated series works.

They basically condensed.

These really famous arcs.

Yeah, the Sentinels. Suddenly, that's twenty two minutes. You know.

It's this really condensed form of storytelling where you can do a lot of exposition and introduction. So I think that what we see in X Men ninety seven, I think it's going to be called we should look to that as probably very telling about what's going to be in the mcux men movies.

Guys, great to see it, Okay, nice to be here. Nice to see you guys too.

Just two quick questions. The first one, now that we're getting.

Further and further away from World War two, which is anchored in time, but our culture is moving, like is it time when the X Men come in to just rebuild that whole story? Take it away from that. Wolverine can obviously can be around forever, but you know, do should that all be reinterpreted the way they did in the Ultimate Universe? And then second question, I miss Cap and Tony in the MCU, and I like the idea

I honestly think we could do a whole episode about the Magni O question. Yes, the Magni Magnio is a Jewish hero, anti hero villain, Holocaust survivor is so integral to his and that came.

Along that was a retcon in and of itself, which came along much much later after his roduction as a very very evil super villain.

But as Matt points out, like this is we are living in the age of the sliding timeline, right, Everyone in the comics now is you know, let's look to the even the Batman, you know, the new film he was in. He was like a kid in like two thousand and one. He's going she Shrek with his mom and.

Dad instead, you know, and then they die. What a tragedy. Like the years keep coming and they don't stop coming.

But like, I think it's the This is something I think about a lot. It's something I talked to jasonill about a lot.

I don't know how they do it.

I think there's some very brilliant ways that you could reinterpret it. I think that there's an unbelievable spectrum of Jewish existence where you could have a Jewish character who's also a black character who was involved in the Civil rights era stuff in the US, and that would be an interesting magnetum. But whatever they do, I think there's

Yeah, I agree with that, And I also think like it comes down to the central question of are they are the mutants here now and hiding.

And have they always been?

Have they always been?

The Also, let's be real, we could just if you wanted to, he could just be forty.

And guess what, he's a Holocaust survivor, but his mutations still they're aging at the age of forty, Like you can write it in if you want.

But you can figure out how they always been there, and they give it. They just give us the eternals who secretly have been hiding like amongst the people of Earth for a long time. So they couldn't do that with the with the X Men, the school is so top secret that nobody knows that it's been happening. Or do they use the multiversal uh door and say we're

For a long time, when it came to like what do you want to see from a Fantastic Four movie?

Right, a lot of us.

Our answer would be like, well, let's do it's tikle, why tit? It's fish out of Water, It's a sixties wild ride movie, and then they're pulled into the modern age.

Wouldn't that be cool?

So I guess, using that same logic, if we're talking about the multiverse, there is a version where you can pull a young, radicalized Holocaust survivor Magneto into a modern age where he still has that experience.

But I would doubt. I don't think.

I don't think there's a way you can do it without it. The question is what does that look like?

And I think that's going to be the hardest thing for them to do because it was I mean, the reason to kind of answer go back to answer Sarah's question. The reason that Magneto looks old in those first X Men movies is because they needed him.

To be a Holocaust viver. So that's what aged him. It was just the narrative necessity.

And as for your I think about the Toni and Cap thing a lot, because I think a lot of people want that. I am all for recasting. I think it's the most exciting way to do it. There is precedent in the comics of teen Tony. It's very hated. I don't think Mark's going to look.

Back to that, but I do.

I do think to me, that's what I think is exciting RDIJ Chris Evan's brilliant. But if I see Tony Stark in, I want to see like twenty five year old Tony.

I want them to.

Find a brilliant young actor who has that like arrogance and anger, and I want to see him against this pure minded, like idealistic cap like. So I think that I think that if they do it, I think you've got to multiverse it. Pick some new act thinks that's.

What and is pretty It seems pretty sure that Fagy's anti reboot. Yes, we will just bring stuff in and figure out how to make it work within the timeline. And I think that's so far.

They haven't gone the the other big Disney property you might have heard of.

It's called Star Wars.

They have a pensiont for doing a lot of de aging, and luckily we haven't them.

We don't want to see that. And even when you.

Had Chris Evans at the end of uh, you know, endgame, he they did old people make up. Even then it was it was practical. So I'm hoping that we're going to stay in that realm of reality.

Do we see old Chris Evans, old Captain America running around in our current.

Joe Biden Captain America.

He's there, Serum is still strong, like you could probably bench.

He needs to come back and make up for all those a trust easy ignored while he was dancing with his missus.

Like, so, I've always wanted like Brandon Sampson's Cosumer books adapted. I'm so curious. What are some things that have not been adapted for TV or movies that y'all would like to see?

I have a god we're running out of stuff at this point.

But no, Okay, so I have a White Whale, But like many of us, I think it's a dream. But also I never want to see it adapted. So there is a comic book that I love that if you listen to podcasts I talk about it a lot, called Love and Rockets, Yeah, which is by the Hernandez Brothers, and it is this slice. It's a mix between a Slice of Life and a science fiction comic about putting the TX punks in like the eighties and and but

There's no sliding timeline.

They get older and it's this brilliant queer punk rock story and I always wanted to know, like it feels like the nineties, like a reality bites era kind of movie should have been the time for it to get made. So I don't know how it exists now, but that's the one where sometimes I'll see a brilliant actress or I'll see like some kind of like brilliant queer fashion shoot and I'm like, oh, love and rockets, Like it could exist, but do I really want it? I'd probably

Why did they do this?

Like I that would be the one because it's kind of like the last giant indie comic that they have. It really is that they haven't adapted yet because.

It's really from the black and white boom mirror. We've had Ninja Turtles comics. You know, We're having a Yasagi Ya Jimbo Netflix show. Like these comics that came out at the same time. A lot of them have been adapted and Love and Rockets is really that one where you're just like it's it's scary to take it on. But like the early stuff, especially that Himey did, like Maggie the Mechanics was this like very It's what inspired Tank Girl. She's like a badass, like queer mechanic and

Comic I think mine would be. I mean, I think Saga it will happen. How has that not happened to actually been at some point?

Just probably post Paper Girls, because that's going to be the big BKV.

Yes, the Brian Cavon Extravaganza, Saga, the Fiona Staples art that is just like so incredible and sumptuous. The best clothes, My favorite clothes in a comic is every fashion is beautiful. I think that that.

I think that is actually so likely.

I think I don't think that they made it so fantastical and imagine that they so.

To me that was I used to say that was alongside the unfilmable comics like watch Men, you know, which has.

Obviously never been filmed.

It's very unfilmable, but like because of that, But I think where we are now, you have a Lord of the Rings show being made by a billionaire company and every episode costs four million dollars and it.

Hadn't been a quarter of a billion just to get it.

Yeah, and the billion dollars season, right, I think we're living in a world where there's too much. There's just unthinkable amounts of money. So in that sense, could Saga get made probably very beautifully? Yeah, I actually think it probably could. Now the question is who could helmet? Do they understand the vision? And could it be weird enough? Also, it would have to be R rated. That is like a saucy gout, that's the way it should be.

But I think it would be.

I think it would be hard in an age of superheroes for them to not want a PG thirteen NET because it's.

So hbox multiple seasons.

Also with the mindset of I have a lot of moral and ethical issues with Watchmen ever being adapted because it was essentially stolen from the creators by DC with dodgy contracting. But I will say if you went into a saga with the mindset of the recent Watchman TV show where you're constantly recontextualizing the source material to make it speak to now, I think that mindset with a budget for saga could be absolutely groundbreaking.

I agree. Yeah, one question, we've come to the end of our time. Big thank you to everybody here. Thank you to on behalf of Rosie and myself. Yes, everybody here Southwest, Please enjoy the rest of the festival. Check out x ray Vision every Friday. Goodbye everybody.

Yeah.

If you want to learn more about what we explore in each episode, check out our listeners guide to all things x ray Vision in the show notes are on our website next week. We're back on Friday, March twenty fifth, and send your nerd out submissions to x ray at crooked dot com. Instructions in the show notes, and don't forget five star ratings. Five star ratings give us the five star ratings. X ray Vision is a Crooked Media Production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin.