All of you listen to this podcast are living on the edge with spoilers you just can't ignore. When we first made pods for you, none of you trusted us. But as you know, we made episodes and you listened to them, so everyone here trusted us to tell you. This episode contained spoilers for Squid Game, for the new James Bond Double O seven picture, No Time to Die, as well as a whole lot more, and so who knows, honestly what else we might talk about, so be warned.
Hello.
I am Jason Stepsione and welcome to episode seven of x ray Vision, the Crookeet Podcast, when we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. On today's Previously on we'll talk about the latest Bond film No Time to Die. In the airlock, we will dive deep into the Netflix sensation Squid Game, and in the endgame, we will choose our own dead the game to be a part of. You won't want to miss out. But first, let's say Loadered, today's co host, pop culture clairvoyant, the
Great Rosie Night. Rosie, what was your favorite children's game?
I was like thinking a lot about this. I wasn't really like an active kid. So I'm gonna say like dot count because I used to love going to my friend's hoss and playing dot coun but because of squid games, I will reveal the English or at least London regional title for red Light Green Light, which is what's the time missed the Wolf?
So that's the.
Exactly, it's like the most English to ever. What was your favorite chardhood game?
Kick the Can? Do you ever play Kick the Can? No? So kick the Can?
Uh it figures in If you want to see a good version of Kick the Can, it is in the Twilight Zone movie from the eighties. Uh directed by John landis famous for the deaths of Uh, an actor and two child actors on set during a particularly harrowing helicopter scene, but there is a brief snippet of Kick the Can in there. It's kind of like hide and go seek in that one person is it, or the person or the jailer sometimes and there is a can or a bottle we use, like a two liter bottle of like
Hawaiian punch. Everyone would go hide, right and then the person who's it then has to go around and find people and they have to stay in this like circle around the can, and so they would say, like tap tap tap, I see Jason hiding behind a tree, and if he sees you, you then have to go stand with him in this circle around the can. Now, if someone manages to like run up before the person who is it can say tap tap tap, I see so and so I see Rosie running toward me, and they
kick the can before that full statement is uttered. Everyone is free, and then the person has to then go retrieve the can, return it to the place, and everybody is run away and his hid.
It would go on for a long time.
But it was very suspenseful, and there was nothing like kicking the can at the last possible moment for free.
It sounds actually like it would be a very good squid game game because it's like suspiciously simple but actually secretly really intricate.
Yes, like we were.
The fun move would be someone would say tap tap tap, I see so and so and so and so hiding over here, and then a third person would like walk up with them very chill, like, oh you also got me you forgot about it, and then they would get to the can and kick it and.
Everybody would just go crazy and run.
Okay, let's get to the news and recapsin today's Previously on.
First up, DC's new Superman, John Kent.
This is the child of Clark Kent and Lois Lane has been announced as as bisexual in a DC and this made quite a splash. They announced this on National Coming Out Day, which is great pr and while this is certainly the buzziest of recent diverse representational announcements, this has been going on for a while. Tim Drake, the
current Robin, has been out as bisexual since August. Tom Taylor, Dark Knights of Steel, Harlequinn and of course you know Young Avengers from eight or ten years ago has had characters that were gay and out as gay, even like.
Going back to like some of our favorite comics like the clamon X Men stuff. Even though there was allegedly an edict at the time where they could have change Jim Shooters Joe Victorious edict, but like you know, Mistek and Destiny, like these are things that these stories have been there for like a really long time.
They have been there, you know.
I think there were some notable stories from that era and ways that creators got around the supposed edict, which I believe is true. I believe that Jim Shooter had is true, Jim. I believe that Jim Shooter had an edict.
He seemed like that kind of guy. There's I forget what what issue of Captain America is, but there's like an issue of Captain America where he uh, I might get some of the details wrong, but that he meets up again with like an old army buddy who has like a best friend, that they live together, and like something like they aren't allowed to like split their assets in some particular way or one of them get sick, and Captain America is like, well, it's wrong that like
these characters can't just hang out together. And but it's quite clearly coded like as a as a gay relationship.
So this is great.
And for everybody who is mad and Slash upset about this, you're late.
You clearly don't read comics because it has been going on.
Yeah, and also it's really funny because like Conic Kent, like everyone always thought he was gay, so I'm sure that they're both going to be gay soon, Like Conic Can's like the number one shipping like gay icons. So I thought this was really cool. The art was really nice.
The art was beautifums. Yeah.
Yeah, and Tom Taylor, I think's doing something really cool. I like seeing John as Superman. I think that's really interesting choice and good for them.
The Tom Taylor statement quote. Superman's symbol has always stood for hope, for truth, and for justice. Today the symbol represents something more. Today, more people can see themselves in the most powerful superhero in comics.
It's great.
Also big news for image heads for Brian K.
Vaughan, heads for fans of Fiuna Staples.
Saga, the acclaimed award winning series which I love very dearly, will return end of January with issue fifty five. It's been on hiatus for I want to say almost two and a half three years now that it left us with. This is a spoiler of podcast, but one of the more brutal cliffhangers in comics that I can remember, and it's coming back.
I can't wait. I love it. I love this comic.
If you love family, if you love falling in love, if you want to see one of the most heartrending depictions of a breakup of two people who go their separate ways and maintain their love for each other, check out Saga. It all Happens in space. There's a cat that knows if you're lying.
It's great.
Well, it's like your one If somebody was like, what saga about? What's like your one?
Nine?
Like pitch line man.
It's about love and space, I guess, you know, and the ability of love to transcend really violent disagreements and differences. It's about a planet that is at war with its moon, you know, a highly technological people versus people entrenched in magic, and they disagree on everything. But then two different people from those two species fall.
In love and they have a child.
And though it doesn't all work out the way you would want it to, it's just an incredibly engaging story.
It's how would you pitch it?
Yeah?
No, I think that's perfect. I think like it's one of those comics where I used to work in a comic shop in London and I had a lot of friends who were that image era of like twenty twelve to twenty fifteen, where it's just like the biggest you had, you know, Wicked in the Divine Sara. Obviously Walking Dead was still like its peak. This was one of those books that you gave to people who don't read comic books.
So that's always my thing is like, this is that first book one because Fiona's art is like so incredible and I love BKV. But the art is what sells someone who's never read a comic book. But it's political, it's nuanced, it's sweet, it's loving, it's violent, it's scary, it's inventive, sexy, it's like it's sexy. Yeah, and it's it's honestly like one of the biggest kind of cultural phenomenon comics of our time. Like it's the one comic that I feel like everyone says you have to read.
It's one Eyes's, It's one Harvey's. I think Fiona might have become the first woman to ever win an Eisner on this book, as like as the first woman to ever win Best Artists in Eisner for this book. And yeah, it's it's kind of also the last ongoing book of that era as well, because Walking Dead is done, WIKTIV is done, a lot of the other stuff that was
really popular there was just kind of minis so. And also, I think it's going to be basically double the same amount of issues, right, so it's like it's going to be fifty four more issues.
I'm so excited, and then you know Fiona. She's probably my favorite artist working for various reasons, but mainly because I don't think anybody does clothes and fashion as well as she does. Like everything that the characters in Saga Ware has, it feels lived in, but it's also super cool.
It's like, it's very rare.
That I open a comic and I'm like, I would wear that jacket that this character is wearing in this comic book.
Even the issue fifty five cover they released, I was like, Wow, just pure style, just easy as fuck on the front of that cover already, and I was like, Okay, you're still going with it. Yeah, I'll be really interested to see the release schedule because this is a book that has it defies release schedules.
People are still so excited.
About it, even though it's been this like two year gap, and they've had a lot of gaps before, so I'm really excited. Image needs another big it needs a return of like a big book.
I agree with you, these things are cyclical, but you know this will be This is huge for that company. Next our mini segment, which we are dubbing the Editor's Note, X Ray Vision's producer and James Bond super nerd Chris Lord will now join us to discuss the current state of Bond as a celebration of the release of the final Daniel Craig Bond film, No Time to Due, directed by directorial super hunk lover of Log Cabins, Carrie.
Chris take it away.
Thanks for having me on.
No.
I was super excited to jump in here because, yeah, I am like the biggest James Bond fan possible, and I really love this movie actually, but it's very different than anything else we've gotten out of Bond so far.
But like, I'm just kind of curious, what'd you guys think about it?
That was great?
Yeah, I quite enjoyed it. I think it's arguably the best Daniel Craig Bond.
Okay, I think the.
Same, like I think, especially if you're not as into the Lord Bond.
Yeah, that's fair.
For a two hour, forty five minute movie, this is an accessible, interesting, funny It's it's so much funnier and campier than the other ones, but it still has steaks like Craig wise, and that's why I love about Bond. Yeah, I just I thought it was I thought it was really great.
I didn't.
I was like, this is gonna drag, but it did not drag. I'm actually stoked to see it again.
Yeah, set the set pieces are wonderful, Craig is great, and it's and it's one of you know, they've been doing the kind of like Bond, have you lost a step James Bond for for a little while with the Daniel Craig run, but this is the most effective, uh depiction of that, and it's super fun.
The character is great. I liked it.
Yeah, I'm glad they finally let him be funny because Jenna Craig has actually really great comedic timing, but he's just been so serious in all these movies.
So sell us on Bond. Sell for those who are not Bond heads, sell us on give it. How how would you pitch someone on Bond?
So I always think of Bond as like this really unique touch point through culture, Like it's the only major film series has been going on for sixty years that's maintained that kind of status, so you can jump into any movie and kind of get a sense of what the world was like at the time the movie came out. But I also think he's this ongoing commentary on modern masculinity.
In a lot of ways.
I mean, I think there's all this conversation now like oh, should Bond be a woman, And I actually think that's kind of reductives. I think you can say much more interesting things about how a male character can and should behave now than by changing up the gender. And so I always say that, like, if you've never seen Bond, start with Casino Royale because it's like, arguably be the
best film that they've made. It's the most accessible. Then go watch Goldfinger, which it's like deeply, deeply problematic, but it's like the.
Most Bond.
But it's so campy and it's.
So Campyre's there's so many problems I'm not gonna start to get into here. If you watch the movie, you know exactly what I'm talking about. But it's like the most Bond Bond movie ever made. It's like where they set the formula. And then after that, I say, go watch like Die Another Day or Diamonds Are Forever.
Just see how like.
Fucking ridiculously stupid some of them can be. You'll get a whole swath of it. But I think for like No Time to Die, you do kind of have to
have seen the entire Craig run, which is different. Like that's the thing that has kind of defined the Dan of Craig era is that it's been a huge departure from the traditional formula up to this point, Like every other Bond film was always like a one and done thing, like you kind of watch it and it didn't matter what came before, what came after, And this is the first time they're like, oh no, you have to know what's going on in continuity is really really important to this era, which is.
Very different.
I think it's kind of put them in a unique position going forward, like I don't really know what they do now. I mean to get into like full on, full on spoilers here for No Time to Die if you haven't seen it. Pause, but like they kill Bond and that's never been done before.
Dead.
He's like one hundred percent dead.
And you know, it's interesting because this movie is almost like kind of a pseudo remake in some ways of on her majesty of service, Like people were gonna be talking about that a lot, so I want to address that. Like not only does Bond say the phrase we have all the time the world, which is like the catch phrase from that film and also the title of the
Louis Armstrong song. But like in that movie, he has a chance at happiness to like go and get married and be with the love of his life, and then that's cut short by an assassination attempt from Blofeld, and the exact same thing happens here, but in the prologue of the film, but instead of anyone dying, like he basically decides he can never trust mallance one again and so like, Okay, if you go, I'm never gonna talk to you again, which, of course, of course they come
back together, but like, yeah, he he's now dead, and so it's like, what do you.
Do they do?
What do they do?
Like how do they like assuming that they don't have a moment in which like em is in their.
Yeah, like in their apartment.
They're in their apartment, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh my god, boond, that's right.
You thought I was deceased but I'm live or something like yeah.
I mean it's weird because this movie almost kind of sets up some potential spin offs, like so we get Lashawna lynch'es know me, who's the new double o? Seven, who I really hoping she was gonna be a scene stealer, Like I kind of want to come out of this movie being like, Hey, if they make a movie just around her, I would love to watch it.
I thought she was a little bit underutilized.
There was there was a lot of we're gonna play with the idea that someone or anyone would steal anything from James Bond, his title, the scenes. You know, his status is like the protagonist, and.
It never happens for sure.
Yeah, I thought Lashaana was great, but she was also playing like a more classic contemporary spy against like a character whose entire point is to contradict that and be more interesting or different. But there was like, I think you're right about the spinoffs, because I mean, the side characters are always great in these Craig movies. They introduced that Ana Dahma's Craig scene is like ten out of ten, one of the best scenes from any.
James She's the real scene stealer.
Ana d Armes's Paloma, like she's so weird and funny and like she seems like she doesn't know what she's doing, and then she's like crazy confident, but also like a hard drinker, just like Bond.
It's so weird and fun.
And they don't sleep together, like they just have a great just have a cool super like mass killing and then they're like, hey, you agree, let's.
Like grab a drink and shoot some people against So yeah, it'll be fun to be really great.
Yeah that I really You know, when studios like release scenes from movies to sell the movie, I'm like, they need to just put that on YouTube because people would be using their mind. Like it's such a it's just such a solid space. But so something I wonder is, like you talked the old James Bond movies before, Craig, It's like, it doesn't matter what happens in the first one, just continue on. It doesn't matter it's a different act.
Blah blah blah. So do you think they're essentially going to use that formula to just keep doing James Bond but with a different person or do you think because they did these movies that are like such a capsule with like an ongoing storyline, that they've kind of trapped themselves into a corner.
I think they have kind of backed themselves into a corner, like you can't just kind of pick up and run with it now because they've made condity such a big deal and that made Craig such a big deal. I mean, I understand why they killed him because I think one they wanted to give him a proper and off, and too they had to find a reason to not have him come back because he's been the most popular Bond since Connery, like hands down, everyone loves him so much.
But I think I think it's hard to do a spinoff because you could have a new character b double O seven the way they did here, but like the end credits even say James Bond will return, right, So James Bond will come back. So I don't think they can do that. I think you have to try to
just keep going. And maybe because Craig has been such a departure that whole era, you could go back and just have it be all right, we bring in someone new, we go back to the traditional like you know, give him a doste, set him on a mission, keep going. And I think they have to pull back on making continuity is such a big deal and just kind of go back that thing, like and we just keep going on.
It's a new actor.
Because there's been this idea that Bond's a code name, and it's actually been proven true number of times. Yeah, Like even Roger Moore films make reference to Sean Connor of films and so on, so that's not the thing.
I don't want them to do that either. Like, I'm kind of sad because I feel like we're gonna have to now say goodbye to like finds as M and Naomi Harris's Moneypenny and Ben Wishaw's Q and I love all of them, but I think you can't just bring them back again and have it still makes sense.
Unfortunately, is there a next Bond? So much of the talk about Bond is who's next? I don't want to get into like speculator who could be the next Bond? But does the next Bond have to be ripped? Now that Daniel Craig is established that Bond is ripped, I mean Bond like James Bond coming out of the water. It was a landmark moment in the history of Bond. Oh yeah, and the water glistening running off.
Of his adults and like a nice inversion of like you know, yes, it's like the gaze and let's look at Bond.
Yeah, the gaze is now on Bond.
I mean just very personally considering that that moment of considerail was a big part of my like gay awakening.
Like can we please keep having Bond the super ripped?
Just on a personal level, I want that, let's let's all go Bond a little bit more here, But yeah, I think he's got to be ripped still.
I think in that mcu age, I think it's there's no question, Like I think I would like to see like dad board Bond or whatever they straight people call bears, Like, you know, I would like to see that. But I think realistically, you're going to have someone on an mc usque diet and they'll probably cast someone you're not expecting to be ripped, and then when they have that moment, everyone's going to.
Be like whoa, oh my god.
Training and not drinking water for.
Like two years exactly.
Yeah, no, he he's going to be ripped.
I want to see like an actual of color take over the role. Like I think that's where you can go now, is like, oh, you can make the character more diverse. And then again me like wanting everything to be more queer. I think a modern Bond would fuck everybody, so bisexual, making pants sexual, Like, just put that in there and just let it be a thing.
Also, didn't Daniel Craig do some incredible interview recently while he was talking about how he always kisses his leading men, so he was like kissing Romy Mallick or something when the.
Movie somehow miss this.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a real thing that he said. So I'm like, just make that canon. He's already too in the work.
Like.
Also, yeah, like you said, James Bond, he would literally he would.
We would sleep with every question.
The calling back to our conversation in previously on about about John Kent coming out as bisexual along with Tim Drakes, et cetera, that I think the thing that the Bond producers will realize is you just have so much more story when your main character can have a romantic relationship with every other character in the story.
Yeah.
Think about it. Yeah, think about it, James Bond producers.
Mm hmm.
And also, like you said, like it not only does that, but also it opens up a different aspect of like a male masculinity exploration, whether they're queer, whether they are a person of color, whether they're both. That adds a different layer to the thing they've already been doing for sixty.
Yes, yeah, exactly. You don't have to have a gay character super feminine. It can be like the most masculine character in the world. And also, yeah, he happens to sleep with men.
It's fine, Chris, thank you for joining us on this u that you have been dying to have about the latest James Bond film.
No Time to Die.
Yeah, we come back, Rosie and I step out of the airlock. We're stepping out of the airlock and into the no holds barred high stakes survival series Squid Game, currently streaming on Netflix. This is, according to Netflix, now Rosie, their biggest international hit. This can't be stressed enough. Do I believe that this is a huge international hit.
I do.
I believe because listen, I started watching it because everybody on my timeline was like schood Game, Scared Games. So I believe that it is a huge international But it can't be said enough when Netflix says this is our biggest hit of all time, this is a huge global hit, This is a MASSI hit. Blah blah blah blah blah. We are taking their word for it because Netflix, like all other streamers, does not tell anybody about what their viewership numbers are, what their stats are.
We don't know anything about it.
Yes, let's be let's be equal hair no streamers, no streamers and other than their own. There's no Nielsen kind of there's there's equivalents that are popping up. But this is just Apple or Netflix or Disney Plus saying hey, eighty five million people want and you just have to say, I believe you, like you said, I actually squid Game. I believe it, like I don't know what the numbers are. But do I believe or want to believe that we
live in a world where more people watch this than Bridgeton. Yes, and I might Bridgidson yet no beef, But if that excites me that this is like could be the biggest Netflix show of all time.
So quick recap on squid Game. Song Gi Hun, otherwise known as Player four fifty six UH, is a inveterate gambler. He is in debt. The debts are causing friction with his family, with his ex wife his ability to take care of their daughter, and so he is approached by a shadowy group to join a mysterious game that could possibly award him as much as forty five and a half billion Korean wand, which is about thirty eight million dollars, certainly a decent payday. And the losers are eliminated in
the most literal way. They are killed off, usually by a gunshot to the head, occasionally by other means, falling.
From great heights, etc.
The games are run by a coterie of massed individuals in red jumpsuits, and they are armed to the teeth.
They, meanwhile, are.
Led by the mysterious frontman, who controls the game with an authoritarian fist, and who in a and this is a huge spoiler, Uh yeah, big, big, big spoiler, turns out to be the long lost brother of the detective character in the game.
Okay, so there have.
Been shows and movies and stories that have criticized power and criticized capitalism and then explore the idea of selfishness as a generator of drama and suspense before but what do you think what's the appeal of this of squid game? Which it's not often that a show that no one expects comes up and captures the conversation, I guess, like Stranger Things and other Netflix property, which was also definitely more marks, definitely more marketed, right, just.
A little bit more. But I think the first reason, which does not touch on anything that we say, but esthetically and stylistically, this show is so uniquely and I do really think the pink jumpsuits, the Esher style, neon staircases, the stylized kid game. I think that's what got people to maybe click on it, you know. But the nature of the capitalists critique and the idea of what we'll do to survive, I just think this is unbelievably timely
and it works on. As I was watching it, I was just thinking, like multiple different times throughout this show, You're like, oh, this could be about veterans who've been in the military and then come out and they're homeless, or this could be about you know, you've got to it's always about following the rules in squid Game. If you don't, if you follow the rules, everyone's equal, and if you follow the rules, then you can have this great, big payout, which is just society and is also bullshit.
You know. Also, I think something that's really interesting, and I know me and you were talking about this even like last week before we were recording, but we are in a space now it's twenty twenty one, twenty one years ago. Battlew the movie came out a year before.
Incredibly influential movie, unbelievable, It's fingerprints are all over squid game if you haven't seen it.
Unbelievable director by Kinji Fukusaku. Just absolutely cultural. Just zeitdeiscet movie. But we are now living in the era where that has existed and been influencing pop culture for twenty one years.
Hunger Games influential to the point where Susanne Collins, editor told her there's this book and movie called Battle Royale. Don't read it or watch it as you were in the middle, because editors had become aware of it and had become aware of how close it was to they were like, don't read it, don't watch it, don't do it.
And also, like, the most popular video game in the world right now is Fortnite, which was inspired again by Battlerial. So we're in a space where this story has become a trope. The idea of like the survivalist, that you kill everyone else to survive and it's just you has become like an ultimate pop culture trope. So there's something
about that. And then you know, living through a pandemic and the massive wealth divide and stories that are already inspiring these kind of conversations like Powersite, and I feel like it just ended up being perfectly timed to kind of engage and get everyone in the like they were saying, this was the top show in you know, thirty countries
or something like. And also it helps that it's incredibly well made, them well written, the production dine is amazing, the story arcs are incredible, And I think the biggest thing which I know we're gonna touch on, that separates this from every other one and why I think people are so into it is episode two, the option of leaving and coming back that I think is the big cook.
That is a very, very notable difference in these kind of stories you mentioned Battle Royale. I think if we're gonna say that these kind of tales where there's a kind of like non zero structure in which in order for a character to advance, another character must definitely lose, and that usually means their life, and that's create it's this kind of like ruthless emotional cadence. You're exactly right. The thing that makes this different than the Hunger games,
Battle Royale, Survivor, you know, all these other shows. Is that these characters given the option to opt out of it and to leave, and by leaving, they then make the decision that actually the larger system, the larger economic system that we find ourselves in separate and aside from the metaphor of the squid game, is so punishing that it's actually the cost benefit analysis leads us to say we must return to the game that underlines the capitalist critique in a lot stronger of a way than a
lot of these other games.
I agree with you, it is really quite a different thing.
Yeah, And even like the name of that episode is hell Yeah. So it's like you've been in the game, You've seen two hundred people die in this really brew away is just going back onto the street, you know, and we learn later on that there's more machinations there, the people they meet, the conversations they have. But I think that choice really gives you that even the biggest hook of these is what would I do? Would I be able to do it? Could I do it? Could I find a way to not do it? Would I
thrive in that situation? It's the same as the zombie Apocalypse everyone has a zombie apocalypse plan how would you survive? So putting them back in the outside world and having them choose to go back in that adds a whole different layer to that.
Yeah, I agree with you.
I mean, like one of the one of the traits that all these kind of stories and games share is the action takes place on a removed and isolated battle arena or a desert island, or you know, in the case of like the Saw movies, like in some hidden you know playpen for a serial killer that acts as like a limited resource metaphor for whatever the larger idea is. And also that the characters are faced with, you know, impossible choices that ask them to prioritize their own self
interest above normal things. So like in squid game, you know, four or five six is asked to prioritize self interest above like his own warm feelings for other characters. He's asked to, you know, walk away from an older character who basically he is the only one who sees value
in that character in the context of a game. A lot of times in stories like this, a character is asked to prioritize their own self interest above, like even parts of themselves, you know, and saw like notably, carry Always's character cuts off their own leg in order to move forward in the game. And you see a lot of you know, Game of Thrones has like these same kind of things where people become maimed or lose an arm in order for them.
To continue on.
And that kind of tenor is part and parcel to
this style. And it's it's hard to escape from the fact that like this style of storytelling, it's always been around, right, Yeah, Lord of the Florida, The Fly, The Running Man, The Most Dangerous Game came out in the twenties, but particular since Battle Royale and I think The Late Night Is it's just become more and more popular, whether it's survivor right, remove characters, remove contestants to a desert island where they then must compete against each other, Big Brother Locke contestants
in this kind of like almost laboratory recreation of a house in which they must compete against each other. The Purge, Castaway, The Walking Dead, The Road, Cormack McCarthy's Road.
There's all these versions of this.
And then and you mentioned Fortnite, Call of Duty, war Zone Apex legends. This for some reason this setup is resonating with people right now.
I actually think as well, like you've touched on something really interesting that I wouldn't have necessarily made the connection between. But I think if we talk about why squid Game is so popular now, you cannot in any way discount reality TV. Somebody who watches The Bachelorette or survivor really passionately, they might not have seen bat real, but they are essentially watching the same storyline, just with it's not death,
it's you're being eliminated in a romantic set. Honestly, I would probably rather do batal than that show is terrifying to me. It's so terrifying. But but like I think that's really interesting because what we're saying is this is no matter what kind of medium or genre. There's novels about it, there's reality TV about it, there's horror movies
about it, there's games that kids play about it. This is a story that is resonating with people, and somehow squid Game has kind of captured that in a way that is making people really excited. And also, like I do think it's cool to see people having conversations about their readings of it. Yeah, and I think so too works and it's like people will be like, oh, it's a meme, but I'm like, that is how information spreads, you know. I saw so many good memes about like.
It.
There's like one really popular one that's basically like, oh, you know squid game. Imagine a world where people have to sign away their lives and like rights and bodily autonomy so that they can survive. And then it's like the US military like hiding, you know, like I think it's people are seeing something in this story specifically that speaks to them in a way where it's not analogous.
It's not like, oh, maybe it means this. It's not your literary student reading like, you know, the Scarlet letter and someone saying maybe he meant this. People are saying this is what this means. And I can see that this is what it means. Yeah.
It's like when I play Fortnite and Call of Duty.
Warzone two of the most popular games certainly for streaming and for people to play, and I think war Zone launched in March of twenty twenty, so basically in conjunction with Quarantine, And you know, the basic setup is you were dropped on two an island or in Eastern Eva, vaguely Eastern European battle space right with one hundred other players, and you either compete against them one on one or you split up in teams of four to compete against
the other teams, and you scavenge weapons and AMMO and share them amongst your team, and so there is this kind of like negotiating for resources thing that's going on. Meanwhile, you're competing in a battle space that is shrinking all the time. There's this circle that is gradually getting smaller, and if you are outside that circle, you are taking damage, but if you're inside the circle, you remain safe.
Ah, that is.
So interesting because that's from bower House.
So they're right, and I think, you know, at least for me, it's like we are constantly inundated in the news with story upon story about like the unstoppable nature of climate change and how it is shrinking the livable space of the world. There's fires over here, there's crazy storms over here, you know, extreme temperatures here, populations on the move, and it seems like the people who are supposed to do something about it are completely powerless to
do anything about it, because, like in squid game. The game itself has its own agency and it is pursuing its own ends. The game wants to exist and wants to continue being played, and no one really has any
power to stop the game from doing its thing. Yeah, And I think a lot of the ways that people and again this is my own theory, this is what I would put forward, is the way that a lot of people are working through their anxieties about climate change, about the pandemic, about the future are games like Fortnite, Call of Duty, Warzone, Apex, Legends, shows and stories like Battle Royale, where you put yourself in the shoes of people in this world of dwindling resources, of shrinking livable space,
and you are presented with the question what would you do to survive to continue playing the game?
Yeah. I also think that something that's really interesting, specifically in the space of like bower Yal of Squid Game,
Hunger Games, even like it's also really interesting. So Boweryal is like the idea is that because of student delinquency and population kind of huge population stuff, they're gonna just get classes of kids to kill each other off, right, And in squid Game, are Gian are in character is an addict So I think something that is really appealing about these stories is these characters who are put into
these situations are not putting inverted commas good. You get flawed characters in Boweryal the kids, you see one of the kids stab at teacher like, but they still deserve to live and not be put in these terrible situations, and squid Game is a really expanded version of that because the long form storytelling means we get to meet all these different people and learn the different things that drive them and the struggles that they've had and the ways that they choose to live their lives and why.
And I think that people really want that empathy for themselves and they want to hopefully have that empathy for other people. So I think that kind of having these stories where flawed people are put in terrible situations by extremely rich, terrible people making decisions that do not help them,
that's probably very relatable to a lot of people. And I think that kind of the bad rich people having fun at the expense of people struggling who are just trying to do their best, that is a very relatable story. And like you said, it's also something we see on the news. It's something that we see in real life. So to see it in a more entertainment focused way that is also a little bit more searing and satirical and kind of pointed, is really appealing.
I mean, I think that there is something quite trenchant for people watching the Squid Game. You know, the idea of if you fall into debt. You know, if you have some debts, if you've made some maybe poor ECN choices or just had bad luck, or if you are elderly, you have no value to this society and therefore you will you can quite possibly fall into this game. Where as brutal as it is, the outcome is basically your only shot at upward mobility within the larger context of
the capitalist system. There is something like brutally truthful about that. Although it's hard for me to escape with all of these stories, whether it's Battle Royal, Hunger Game, What Have You Saw, and then Squid Game, even Parasite, it's an incredibly trenching critique of the system, but there is no revolutionary answer. The only kind of catharsis at the end of Squid Game spoiler is that the human capacity for generosity can somehow disrupt the game. But the game continues.
There is no overthrowing of the game. You know, uh song gi Hun just merely decides that he will reject the reward. It's not that he wins or even you know, unmasks or overthrows the people throwing the game. Yeah.
I think even like Hunger Games is really really famous in the YA community because even though technically there's a revolution, it's led by Catus. You know. The end of the book is like she has like complex PTSD and hates her life and she just lives in this winner's town and it's just terrible. And the kind of implication is like things don't really get better like it's and that I think that is really that's one of the most brutal. But also I guess maybe something that really makes these
stories stand out is they don't often have a happy end. Yeah, like squid Game promises maybe he's gonna maybe he's not gonna just go on living his life, like he's gonna try and maybe do something, but what can he do?
You know?
And I think I think squid Games specifically is really interesting look at kind of complicity or like how how far we would go in that system to kind of achieve what we want. Because the episode Gumbao, like the Marbles.
Episodes, episode six, which is the yeah, the the brutal episode.
Yeah, it's just so horrible, but like I'm pretty sure from thinking about it and watching it, the episode is really you have to team up with someone that you trust. They team them up and then they pit them against each other in any game of marbles, and all you've got to do is get the other the other players ten marbles, right, and it's horrible. We see sang Wu completely betray Ali, who's like the one of the sweetest characters in the show. It's just it's it's a masterclass
intention and sadness and devastation. But I'm pretty sure that that episode is really really key to how squid Game works because sang Wu based Lee, who is this star of his local area. He went to financial college. He's seen as this huge success, but the truth is he's in lots of debt and he's an incredibly selfish person. As we learn as show goes on. He essentially tricks Ali into giving him his marbles and then he says,
you know, don't I win. If that logic works, then every single person there could have just swapped bags of marbles with the other person. But I think the kind of point of the episode is by that point, they're so entrenched in the system that all they can think about is like brutality.
That's a good point.
I think that what I took away from that episode, and what I took away from you know, like so Jihun's player four five six is ongoing support for player one, the Lily character, is that what the story is telling us is that if you pursue your self interest rationally, you become part of the system and complicit in its brutality. Right, So therefore the way forward, the heroic way forward, is to trust your own irrational intuition, right, and emotional connection
with a person. There's actually no good reason why four or five six should select o wil Nam as his partner or select him for any of the game, Like, there's no good rational reason. He does it because he sees that man, and he says, I just feel a connection to him, I feel warmly towards him for whatever reason, and therefore I'm gonna have him on my team for no good reason. But then that becomes the thing that allows him to move forward in the game.
And makes him the hero of our story.
And it's actually like a quite sad idea, but an interesting idea as well, in the way that people make decisions, which is that I personally believe that most of us make decisions not for reasons of like that we derive from rational thought or intellect. We make emotional, intuitive decisions, and then we backmap whatever our personal intellectual philosophy is on it and say, here's the reason I did that based on these criteria, when actually I just made an
emotional decision. And I think that's that's a lot of what happens with player four five six year. He makes these emotional, generous decisions that are not based on anything rational at all, and he quote unquote wins mm hmm.
Yeah. There's like I think that's one of the other things that probably has made this show so huge. There's so many different readings of it and conversations to be had and moments, and it's in that sense, like it's a real like water cooler show. Even though a lot of people aren't in the office. People are talking about online, they're talking about it to their friends, They're dming people.
My friend was like texting our other friends at midnight talking about the episodes that they'd watched because they were just so like heartbroken by episode six. And I think in that way that's also part of its power, because they're just all these different readings, and there's also all these I'm sure there's people who would be like, yeah,
I would do what sang Wu did. I would I would just do whatever I needed to do to get that money and fix my life, and then there's other people who are just like, what the fuck is wrong with you? I also think another thing that probably appeals to people about this show is his character is presented as higher education makes you smarter, it makes you better, you have succeeded, you are wealthy, but actually he is the most morally questionable person that we get to meet
in the show. And I think that that inversion of the idea of like wealthiness and success being next to kind of moral goodness or or kind of how well your life is, which obviously we're getting a lot of good critiques in succession, like rich people are terrible, but yeah,
I think that. I also think that's really interesting because I think in a lot of stories, player four five' six would be the character you couldn't trust or the character that you're supposed to think is morally has a gray area, but really he also goes on that journey of realizing it's actually his childhood friend who was meant to be this huge, great success. And I think that's really interesting.
How would you do in squid game? How would you do in the game.
I'd be really bad at it, man, Like I know in the odd days, I would have been like I used to have like a Zombie Apocalypse fan. I that Orio was such a formative movie for me. There was like three halloweens when I was a teenager that I made a bout O Rio costume. I had a shirt that was like screen printed, like a white school shirt that was screen printed with the girl getting shot on the edge of the rocks. Like I loved that movie so much. But I'm just like a soft I'm like
a soft boy. I would I would not be able to kill anyone. I would be like helping everyone.
I will, well, that would make you the cure of the story, like in any of these self interest stories, you know, like it's the.
Would die horribly like a I would know, you know what. I was watching this show and I thinking a lot. And there was definitely a time when I was nineteen whatever, and I was super fucking poor and I was just living my life. There is a time when I could imagine in a fictional world that I would have been enticed by something similar in a fictional sense, like and in that way, maybe I would have had the survival and think, but now I'm in my thirties, I just
want to like drink some tea and like chill. I would just be like, I'd be like, I'm not going in there, like I don't need the money. I'll be because I'm gonna die. How would you do?
No, I think i'd be like, so, red light, green light, I'd be fine, let's go through them, let's see okay, Yeah, that's a good idea.
Let's just go to so yeah, let's just go down there.
So I'm clumsy, red light, I'd be shot straight away.
Red Light, green Light.
I think I'd be okay because I think I would realize off the bad what it was.
What is the second game?
The vote?
This is where they vote. I would vote leave, it's not worth like, you know, whatever else is going on in my.
Life, I would definitely leave.
Uh.
And then so then they're outside and then we get of war game where they have to think strategically. I'm bad at tugger war like, I would not be good.
Like no upper arm strength, I would I would lose. I think unless they had a cool strategic.
We would need someone like oh Illnam to talk us through. Okay, we need the strongest person in the back. Everybody set their feet facing straight. You pull as hard as you can for sixty Yeah, it's like okay, and then so that one I would do bad. Let's see the next game. Okay, the marbles game, forget it. I don't know that I'd be killed. I would be end up being shot.
Yeah, I would just I would just try and convince someone. Like when you had the two young girls, you know, and they didn't know any games because they're not like boomers and they're young. I was like, just make up a game, they said, any game. Just make up a game called Swap Season, swap your marbles. In the situation, maybe that one I could potentially survive just by out with them. But then again, they'd probably be pissed that I did that and then shoot me in the head.
So I would probably I definitely would have died during the Honeycomb.
Game, I have like zero god that one, yeah detailed that one, I'd be okay.
If it was the licking, I could have worked. If I'd have seen player four five six licking it, then I would have been fine. But with the needle, I definitely would have broken.
The Honeycomb game, I'd be fine.
And then there's the glass Walkways game that one I would just I would fall. I would fall, And I don't have the canniness to like betray somebody else or push somebody else onto the thing and be like you go first.
So the only thing I think that they obviously missed there that I would have I would have tried to do this, but I also would have still fallen because I'm very short and I can't jump very far. But like I think that they should have taken the shoes that they took off and throw them, use them to throw on the glass. I don't see any rule against them.
A lot of times, yeah door just like bash on it with your hand. Could you just like reach exhaust and like bash on it. They were like they were committed too much to jump. Okay, so what if it was squid game?
But can do you.
Think you Oh, I think i'd win.
I think i'd be good at I also think i'd be good at the actual squid game. I think i'd be pretty good at that because I'm wiley and I have I can I'm not fast, but I can fake you out. I think I have some good fakes. I think I'd be all right at that game, but I don't I would be killed. I'd be killed somewhere in the middle of this game. No, there's no question. Certainly, like when the lights went out and everybody started massacring each other, like at that point, I would probably be killed.
I would definitely be dead. I know. I was like, I was trying to think of, like what other like funny games. They would like Squid Game, but it's like musical chas. That would be like so Grim to Die with musical chas.
Rotten Tomatoes ninety one percent critics approval, eighty five percent audience approval. It's certainly one of the zeitgeistiest hits in recent memory. If you haven't watched Battle Royale and you're like, oh, what is is there anything else like this?
Go rent the movie Battle Royal and watch it.
Pitch it to our y yeah, So it's really just one of the most important kind of Japanese movies of that era. It was based on a book that came out in nineteen ninety nine. Within a year they'd made a manga and a movie of it. The book is by Koshin Takami and Kinji Fuksaku, who directed Bow Royal is like a really famous Japanese war movie director. So it's just it's this epicn scope but intimate in story. It stars beat Takeshi as a teacher who ends up
overseeing this class of kids who have been drugged. Very much like there's a lot of stuff that Squid Game touches on from Boweryal. They get gassed on their way on a school trip. They end upon this island. They each given a random weapon. It can be anything from a dustbin lid to a side or an ak forty seven. There's a kid on the island who's played the game before.
He's just a psychopath. He has a machine gun. And it is very similar to Squid Game in the nature of like what would you do, would you team up? Would you not team up? It has unbelievably cool aesthetics. It's just such a cool movie and it and it has you know, it's it's kind of funny because I think watching it now, like some people, if you haven't seen it before, you'll you'll kind of be like, oh, this is a little bit like Tame. It's very brutal.
There's a lot of violence, but it has u there's quiet moments, and those also lead to some of the best most brutal sections. Like I would just say, if you're watching it, keep an eye out for the lighthouse. I always remember that. Another thing I would say that's really key to look into if you enjoyed this is So there's a manga called Kaiji and I know that.
I think Reddit and a lot of other places have been very much have been like really keen on talking about this because so Kagi's by a nobodyuk Fu Kamoto. It's among from Night and Night six They've got and the first arc is called Gambling Apocalypse, and then it became an anime called Ultimate Survivor, and it's basically about a gambling addict who gets really really into debt and then gets asked to play dangerous games to solve his debts. Now, you don't end up dying in this, you end up
getting put into manual labor if you lose. But like the first game he plays is like a rock paper scissors game. Bowery and Kaiji are the two things I think you would probably just absolutely love to jump into if you're looking for a deadly games story that has echoes of that social commentary. I wrote an article at Nerdice like nine things to watch after Squid Game that's a bit more broad and kind of looks at different
kind of social commentary movies and shows. But those are the two things I think, And Bowerial is definitely at top. I think it's actually streaming free stream like to be put IMV Amazon.
Yeah, well, it's been fascinating to talk about Rosie.
Up next, The Hive Mind.
Welcome to the Hive Mind, where we dive deeper into a specific topic. This week, X ray Vision is including a conversation with two producers on the acclaimed anime anthology series Star Wars Visions, Jackie Lopez, VP of Franchise Production at Lucasfilm Animation and Kanako sher Asaki, head of production at Cubic Pictures. Before we get into it, what's your
relationship to animation? How did you get into this line of work, which is you know I have Whenever I'm speaking to people who have what I would call cool jobs, it's always I always love asking them how they got into it, because, you know, it's for me as a fan of all this stuff, the idea that you could have as your job, you know, working for Lucasfilm or
working for Cubic and doing all this animation stuff. It's so cool and so interesting, and I'm sure there's a lot of people who would love to know.
How do you do it?
How did it happen? So what is your personal relationship with animation? How did you get into this story with Jackie Hi?
Well, I feel like I got into it in a very circuitous fashion. So I feel like a lot of people I know who are in this business have a very similar story. So for those out there, it's like sometimes there's many many ways into cool jobs, and I do think my job is cool. I started in live action. I always loved films, so I started in live action production and then fell into a niche corner of visual effects, and I just loved the craftsmanship of visual effects, you know,
miniatures and puppets and pyrotechnics. It was just really the collaboration with really smart people was just I was drawn to. And as visual effects progressed, we started doing more and more animation and animation into live action plates. And the more I did that, the more I realized, Wow, I really love telling the story with these animated characters as the main protagonists. And so I BeO Wolf. I did Beowulf with Robertson Mechis, and I've just been in animation
ever since. I just love it. I love two D, I love three D, and I've been fortunate enough to sort of be able to dabble in all of those formats, so.
I'd be always interesting mutual understanding through different cultures. I'm Japanese, but my half families are from China, and I grew up in Japan is half Japanese and half Chinese. So really interesting that type of And after I moved to New York, I worked for a non profit organization there's cultural Japanese cultural promotion through performing arts over other related areas, so I was in charge of the section of performing
arts and films. And during that time I met Justin Leach, the CEO of the QB Pictures, as a friend and in New York because there are so many film screening or animal film screening in New York, so I occasionally see him. And then I went back to Japan and he suddenly texted me saying, hey, kind of go are you free in December because I go to Tokyo and I have a meeting with these people and I need someone who helped me to coordinate these things and do
the translation for my meeting. And I was taking off that time, but I was like, sure, it sounds interesting, he says animas. I was like, okay, sure I can do that. And that's how I got into through Cubic Pictures. So that's one text message when Justin really changed my life.
You know, everyone that I speak to and ask that question too, they've all got, you know, to Jackie's point, a really interesting path to get there to Star Wars Visions. How did the how did the project start to take shape?
And how did you.
Select the studios that ended up taking taking part in this?
Either of you, I would say anime doing an anime project has been on our minds at Lucasfilm for a very long time. Where all fans knew George Lucas was not only a fan of Japanese cinema, but he was also a big fan of Japanese animation, you know, with Mizaki, yes, but also it went deeper than that, and we were always looking for the right time or the right way to do a Star Wars expression in anime, and I think as D plus we got up and running it sort of afforded us an opportunity in a way to
move forward on this different expression of Star Wars. And then choosing the different studios was very difficult because there are really so many, so many talented studios right now in Japan doing excellent work. And that's where kind of going justin really helped us curate what we were looking for, because we knew we wanted a variety of styles and storytelling, to the heavy action, to the heartwarming, to the slow and serene. So it was really kind of going justin
helping guide us. There are some we knew we wanted to go to, but then they were introducing us to the works of many others kind of if you want to expand.
On that, sure, yeah. So what we really wanted to show is that there's no one type of Japanese anime. There's like it has like like many there's many different types of movie. There's many different type of Japanese anime and has different style and storytelling, different style and visual expression.
So since this might be for some people this is the first time seeing Japanese anime, so we really wanted to make sure there's going to be a great introduction for them who doesn't really who are not familiar with Japanese anime. So justin also like he was, he used to work at Production IG before and knows uh so many has so many connections in Japanese anime industry, so he did lots of extensive research and in which studios to reach out to.
If you had to break it down, what are the kind of main styles within anime, what are the main schools and you know aesthetic styles that we see and how did you try to present those to Lucasfilms as possible expressions for this project.
I think that also the style changes by like a decade, like if you look at the nineties animation and like animations from two twenty ten and from the ten years from there, like the trend in character designs look so different as well as like it was one hundred person hand painted before and now there's a three D c G animation a little bit, and there's a combination of these two. So I think the visual expression of change a lot since then, but the core storytelling might be
the same throughout. They have a theme for like families or like relationship between characters. So what we really trying to show here was like we wanted to show the production I g. Like the industry veteran who's being there for really long time, to like a very young studio, like a studio co Rado and Jena studio who has really like fresh ideas and trying to find like a new artist to bring out a new expressions. So that is yeah, that is what we are looking for when we are in discussion.
And Jackie, how did the engagement, the creative part of this process work. What kind of guidelines, if any, did Lucasfilm give the studios or was it just give us your wildest pitch?
Well, I think in the beginning it was sort of you know, what would your story be, what kind of story would you want to tell? And we asked for pitches from the studios and we said you could just give us one if you only have one idea, or if you have a few go ahead and let us
know what those are. And so we didn't really give guidelines at the beginning, so we got some really great pitches in and then we had to curate from there, you know, because if there were two that were kind of the same or focused on the same type of story, we kind of curated the stories and.
Then from there.
You know, we were nervous because I know, these Japanese creatives that we went out to, you know, they're not used to creative guidance like that, right, because that's there. So we try to be very respectful of that and just sort of help them give guidelines or dig out the story a little more. But it went very smoothly.
I mean, we were dealing working with people who are really professional and great at their craft, so I would say we just had little bumpers, but it was really their stories and their visions that we helped bring to the screen.
As you mentioned, y'all were looking for a range of styles and tones. Do you have any favorites from the series that or stand out moments that you just personally like, really vibe with you really like Knaco.
Oh, that's hard to pick a favorite moments because there's like, there are just so many great moments. I would say, like, so four studios did the sound mixing together was Skywalker Sound and it's like remotely so people connecting through the Internet and then listen to the odeo. That was really cool experience because that is a great cooboration between the
Skywalker sound and the studios in Japan. Many Japanese people are shy a little bit in front of camera, so the first reaction they listened to Skywalker sound mix was a little difficult for us to decode. I was like, and then we don't really see everyone's reaction because camera is a one part of one section of the studio in Japan, so we only see like a black wolves and some people moving around.
And it was silent, it was violent.
I in a previous life, I was a jazz musician. I did this number of gigs in Osaka and Fukawoka in Japan a few years ago, and I remember for Blue Note Records, and the person who brought us there told us he was like, listen, when you're done with the song, you they'll be quiet. But that doesn't mean they know they like it. Believe me, they like it, but they're not going to make any sound, so just be ready for that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I wish someone would have told us, Jason.
So it was. I was trying to say, like, I'm sure they like it, but I remember there's the mixed session was dual, like we heard like after the quiet moment, we heard the key Hen Club being from Japan, and then they fit like they just like had a goose bump and then they couldn't really say anything. I'll be watching their animation with like Star Wars sound on it. So that was a cool moment. Yeah, I really perish, Jackie.
Any favorite favorite moments, favorite parts of the series, favorite episodes?
Wow, kind of go and.
I talk about this all the time because our favorites shift from day to day, from week to week, and my favorites at script page change when it got to storyboards, and then changed again when it got to color, and now they change every day. I'm watching it with my family now on D Plus, And the more I watch them, the more I sort of extract from each one, you know, the depth of meaning really like, oh, I see now
that's connect you know. I see new things in them every time I see them, and I have new favorites every different days, so it's really hard to choose a favorite. I really really love them all in it for different reasons.
Jack, you spoke about the craftsmanship that is there in the animation space through both of your experience in this field, Like, what is the thing that just most impresses you about
the craftsmanship? Because you know, when I watch I have some friends that do animation and illustration, the amount of work that goes into it, it's mind blowing for some an image that blows by you in a blink of an eye, and I'm just always just dumbfounded by that, the amount of work that goes into something that moves so quickly. What from that space is something that you just like to tell people, look at how much work goes into this.
To me, it's the drawing when you're working in to date, just people's ability to draw. And there's different programs now that animation two D animators can that help with some of that in betweens and some things like that, But I feel like the craftsmanship that's coming out of Tokyo is still pretty heavily reliant on people who can draw, and it blows me away. I've been around it for decades and just people who can draw like volume and anatomy.
It just never ceases to amaze me. And not on this project, but about four years ago I was able to be in Tokyo and visit some of a couple of studios and just saying that a lot of the way they draw is still on paper, and you know, it's very handcrafted still. You know, they're putting all their sheets in a folder every day for the animation director to review and a raise and draw on top of It's just these people aren't I mean, obviously they're artists,
but they're really truly artisans. It should never be minimized how much work it is. And you're right, people don't understand that, but it takes to create one of these totally.
Uh. Some of the studio, I think it's a general studio and the studio Cororido. They post some side by side comparison movie on Twitter so you can see the pencil drawing animation and the final animation and it's just a you know, mind blowing like, oh my god, like how can you make that? Lots like the furughly ear and all the hares moves so beautifully even in the pencil drawing and then the end like final frame is like, of course it's beautiful, but it's just so wonderful watch.
And I think the passion of each creator has is like really huge, and I think there's really hugely still believe in that what can anime do in terms of the story an expression, And I think that's really stems out in Japanese anime.
I guess I could watch the hair from the karen AM's bangs over their faces in The Twins forever. I just sometimes I can't even watch the story. I'm just staring at it because there's something just mesmerizing and beautiful about it. You know. What is also interesting is the studios had to adjust and do this during COVID, and
so many of their artists were working at home. And one story I heard is they had to send runners by the animators homes every night to pick up their drawings, and you know, so that animator would leave it downstairs on their porch or in their laundry room, and the runner would come by every ninety grab their drawings, which I'm like, oh my god, it's really amazing that they were able to get this done over through COVID.
We've seen that particularly the Ronin from the first episode of The Jewel. It's going to be the subject of novelization where Star Wars is no stranger to characters from their animation side crossing over into the live action side. We recently saw the much beloved Asokatano in The Mandalorian. I don't know if you could break news or if you would even know, but it seems like that would be a possibility, right if fans really gravitate towards a particular character, could it happen?
Could we see one of these characters cross over?
Never say never, is my answer to that, because I'm with you that some of these characters feel like they could fit right perfectly into the cannon, you know, and you want to see them again.
You want to.
See what their journey has led to and who they aligned with, and you know, so I absolutely hope so. I mean, I'm sure when George and Dave Filoni made up a Soka ten years ago, they had no idea, right, so things take on a life of their own though.
If any of these characters could cross over, who would you like to see to it?
I love to see like a touching rhopsesses band a style waiver just like to have a concert in different bar in different planets, like they can easily be in background, and you know, personally, it doesn't have to be like they doesn't have to be like a very successful band in the galaxy. But even though they still like doing the rocks, you know after five ten years.
That's so funny. I'd love to see them at Galaxy's Edge.
Yes, I had. I had a pitch to one of our other guests, Alex, who has a very popular YouTube channel where he it basically talks about Star Wars, star Wars Explained, stars called star Wars Explains and it's you know, of course the Max Rebo band later was at Jaba's palace playing for the assembled guests there day in day out. My pitch to him was what if Star Waver was Jaba's entry into the music business. That's how he got the bug and how he started loving music. That's my pitch. Anyway,
I love it. Are we going to see a Star Wars vision season two at some point?
You know, I don't think we've seen the last of Star Wars visions. I think it's a great way to see different expressions of Star Wars, and so my hope is that this is definitely not the last.
Jackie Cana Goo, thank you for joining us.
Thank you, Jason, I love your passion. Thank you so much, A.
Big fan of it. Up next, the Endgame, Rosie. We are in the end game now, and this leak we are playing deadly games. The question is this which murder game set up?
Right? So, which murder game set up?
You have?
Squid game, death Race, the Purge, old School, the most dangerous game? You want to get divergent on us, you could do that, Lord of the Flies. Which of these would you excel at? Would you pick to be placed in?
And why?
Hmmm?
Well, squid games off, Bowerols off. The punch seems vaguely appealing to me because I could just potentially look myself at my house.
Or you don't have to do anything. You could just like.
Also the punch, I could do like I could like cancel student loans or something. I mean, everything's illegal, everything's legal. I could do some cool like venom hacking.
You know, I would pull the I would pull those do not remove tags off my mattresses.
I would do that. Fine.
I think I would actually pick Running Man, though, just because I love that movie and I love the esthetic, and I think that it's so kind of like Bootleg that I would probably be okay. It's like just electrocute some guys, like go in a cool weird car through a tunnel where I jumpsuit, like make friends with Arnold Walschnigger. I'd probably be fine in In Running Man, I think.
There's uh, there's a line in that movie and delivered by the great Arnold Schwarzenegger with a line reading that is just unreal, and I'm gonna quote it for you now.
I hope you'll leave enough room from my fist because I have the rabbit and break us up. Fine.
Yeah, it's iconic. And he's like when he stabs the guy when he's citing the contract. I love that error of Arnie. Like Running Man, total recall.
Heals your sob zirl now just cleans zeral zero.
Yeah, that's the good stuff. I think I could survive in eighties Game show era, where it's a little bit more jankie.
What about you, I'm gonna go with Man.
It's like a lot of killing, and I'm not sure how well I would do with killing, but I think Peter, I'm gonna steal one from Peta.
He has shown us the way.
I think if I went Hunger Games and I painted myself like a rock and just lay there honestly like he did very very well by doing it, and I think I would. I think I would do that as well. I would just paint myself like a rock and lay down.
And when you said I just make some nice bread, doesn't delicious bread smell like bread?
That's it for the endgame. Let us know whether you agree or can disagree. More sure your answers at hashtag xrvey endgame. Big thanks to Jackie Lopez, to Kannako Shiasaki uh, and of course Rosie Knight for joining us on another episode of X ray Vision. Rosie, where can people find your stuff?
Plug it?
Uh?
Yeah, you can find me nerdist Ign a den of geek, all kinds of different cool places. When we write about comics what to watch, there's a bunch of different stuff out there. And the I'm on Instagram at Rosie Marx, where I sometimes review movies and always shout out this podcast.
Oh thank you.
Join us each week on Wednesday for your weekly dose of the deepest dives in Hana Stakes. Next week we'll be moving across the comic style to talk about the dc FanDome and all the announcements coming out of the Beagle dc FanDome. If you want to learn more about some of the shows, movies, comics, pop culture, the wee explore each episode, check out our listeners guide to all things x ray Vision in the show notes or.
On your website.
There is six rounds in the Squid Game, but only five stars, so if you like this show, give us the five star or else goodbye. Thanks very Vision. Is it for good media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Salt Rubin. It's EP by me, Jason Nceepsione and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Restin and Carolyon Gillespie are our consulting producers, and our editing and sound design is by Sarah Gibalaska, SGL and the folks. At chapter four, thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music.
Goodbye,