Warning this podcast could teeth spoilers for the Last of Us episode four. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosie Knight, and welcome to x ray Vision. The Crooked Media podcast will be dived to your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.
In this episode. On previously on, we're gonna be talking about the buzz from the DC Slate, an outside.
The Buzz, the buzz and how much buzz Baby, how.
It may have been affecting some comic book sales in a potentially positive way. In the airlock, we are going to be talking about episode four of The Last of Us on HBO Max, which sees a favor of ours enter the Fray and in out we have a theory about Deadpool entering the MCU, which you know, we're excited about because we love theories.
Of course, if you want to jump around, check the show notes for time stamps. Coming up. Previously on First Up DC, more DC News reaction to the DC News of last week when James Gunn and Peter Saffran unveiled their much awaited DC Slate and folks, it's a hit. The buzz is very positive. I mean, like, you know, we were very excited by it. Every DC comic fan, every comic fan I know, was super super excited about it.
I know a friend of mine who is a TV writer, was like, I'm trying to talking to my agents, trying to get that booster gold.
You know what I'm saying, Like I know that they are. This is not the only stuff that they're trying to adapt, Like James said, this is the chat stuff. So I'm like, it's time to be going to d C. I want to pitch. Yeah, I gotta love plan for a certain Vertigo comic. You know, I think a lot of people do, so I think it's an exciting time.
Yeah.
And one of the big news bumps was kind of this, like James Gunn did something that a lot of people in this industry do not do. James Gunn directly shouted out the comics that would be influencing these movies, and that tweet went off and everyone was like, more people need to do this, Marvel, you need to do that, and he specified, you know, as we said, it was Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison. Frank quietly, we had
a Supergirl where Women of Tomorrow all start Superman. We were right by the way, we were right, and like, basically what happened was a lot of people decided they wanted to buy these books. Now I know from anecdote or evidence this is true. My comic shop Pop Fiction in Long Beach, they had a lot of people coming in to buy those books. And then James gun under a tweet where he basically kind of report it shared some reporting about how some of these books were selling
out on Amazon. Supergirl Women of Tomorrow was one of them. Now, look, the comic book selling industry is very messyficial, and inefficient.
It's always been inefficient.
If you remember we were talking about it when Hawkeye was coming out. Hawkeye, the collection by Matt Fraction and David A. Ha had actually been out of print for a long time and they didn't get it back in stores when invinters came.
There's only like two printing houses. I love get this wrong, but there's very few printers that actually do.
This work and a very huge bo very few distributors. So when they say, oh, you know, Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow has sold out on Amazon, that means they don't have that many any left in their warehouse that they're stopping from but you can go to your comic shop and try and buy them. But this is great news because it's always good to see comics selling, and this is the impact that it can have to actually say
this is the com we're basing on. If you think about Marvel, it is very rare to hear them say that. Even when something like Captain America, when Soldier was directly based on a comic, they were not out there promoting that. So this is very cool. I love to see comics selling. I think it's very buzzy and kind of like an interesting technique. But if it basically bullies Marvel into shouting out comics, creators and comics, I'll be happy. I'm like, James Gunn, you're doing good work.
I wonder if that will happen more now. You know, they do kind of obliquely gesture at the arcs and the creators both with thanks in the movies and kind of like and like they invite Toy to the premiere and stuff. But this is yeah, this is the most overt kind of like hear are the comics. This is coming from kind of statement we've seen in this space. But I will say also that it's really cool that
we're seeing the comics sell out. I think whether or not that's accurate the buzz around it, Yeah, it's great. It's a great look. And secondarily, like James Gunn directly shouting out the comics, I also think is on the one hand, he should do it, and it's a thing
to do. From a more cynical point of view, it's also the way that James necessarily gestures to the you know, the DC fan base that's been there, been active and hoping for this kind of statement for years, to it as a way of saying, hey, we know what we're doing, we know where this stuff comes from. I've read this stuff, I know about it. I'm deeply versed in it. You know how many times have we heard James in that statement and other times say like, DC means a lot
to me. I've been reading, you know, I've been in that universe since I was a kid, and so this is more of that, and you know, it's very interest Hopefully we'll lift all boats.
I totally agree also, and I mean you can even see I think the thing that's going to appeal to Marvel, Disney all the places about this is like whatever the reality of selling out, which such an exciting kind of terminology. Is the Amazon Top Comics bestseller list is reflecting people's interest in these books, and everybody loves to make money. Who's a corporation? I will say, James Gunn, this is so cool. I'm so glad you're doing it like everyone I would mind. The next step of this is like,
make sure you're just shouting out those artists. The comics don't exist without the artist. Bill Quis Everly also made Women of Tomorrow, you know, Frank Quietly made All Star Superman, Batman and Robin Like. That's the one thing is I think we're still stuck in that idea of like Tom King's Women of Tomorrow or Grant Morrison's you know, All Star Superman. But we need let's do I'm not expecting
a full creator credit. You don't have to shout out as much as I would love that, but let's just let's just get to the point where when we share those comics, we're shouting out the artists too, because this medium doesn't exist without them.
But yeah, that's right.
I love to see it. Also, I was very happy because after the Swamp Thing announcement, where they were like it's going to be a dark horror story directed by James Mangold. We can now pretty firmly say he's in talks about it. They then shared the Alan Moore Swamp Thing first volume and said this is what it's based on, which is like a sexy, weird like romance book. So I'm all, I'm happy about it. I'm happy about it. It's going to be great.
Up next, dear luck Well, we're stepping out of the airlock and into a piece of shit Chevy.
Pickup truck that feels like a spaceship.
This feels like a spaceship as we rode trip WestEd to episode four of HBO's The Last of Us. This episode titled Please Hold to My Hand, written by Craig Mason, directed by Jeremy Webb, and we open with Ellie pointing a gun into a mirror at herself and basically doing TAXI, Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? She's got her gun. She's making little pewpew sound, she pops the mag checks the rounds. She is so excited to have her web.
But let's say congratulations to Ellie. She is a cheat. She manifested this. She wanted a gun. She asked for a gun, she made it, found a gun, she made it happen, and guess what she was actually right, She does need a gun, and we're gonna find out why very soon.
Ellie got a gun. She's practicing with the gun, making little pewpew sounds. She pops the Megan checks the rounds, and then she returns to Joel. They are at a rest stop. Joel is siphoning fuel and he's telling Ellie both why they need to do this so often, because gas, as I have been railing about, He exage a discord, gas breaks down over time, like if you just leave it in the tank, it'll break down over time, get less effective. And so Joel is having to do this
a lot. And then he's explaining the physics behind how siphoning works, and Ellie is roasting him because clearly he doesn't actually know how it works. And then things take a turn for really the dangerous, the tragic. Ellie pulls out a book of puns. It's time for jokes. She says, what did the mermaid? Where did her math class? And algae bra and Joel is like, fuck this shit. Yes, he's absolutely fed up.
With it.
They continue on the road. In this part of what is officially the Midwest is just littered with vehicles. Ellie is like, oh, I want to see a tank. I hope I see a tank, and Joel's like, you will. There'll be a tank out here because the military was all around and very active in those days, and you will definitely see a tank, Ellie. He shows Joel a bunch of stuff that she scavenged from Bill and Franks in that all too short a time that they spent.
Esske it.
First one Hank Williams cassette. Okay, she shaved it.
She's like, you're old, you like this and he's like, no, that's before my time. But actually it's a banger, so put it on.
Yeah, put it on. And then next up a bear skin magazine done little porno mag action and this makes Joel tremendously uncomfortable, which Ellie loves. And then Ellie says, gosh in a in a by the way, in exchange directly ripped from the video game, as much of this episode actually was, she says, well, why are the pages stuck together?
Joels is like h.
And She's like you, I'm fucking with you. And then she throws it out the window, which I have to say, this is a miss steak laden episode. Our characters make a ton of mistakes this episode, and I would argue, and I'm dead serious, I think this is one of them. I'm not like that has value to somebody.
Dude, I'm saying, in a bing trading world. How much gay porn is there left in this world? I don't know, but not a lot. And this is a physical magazine also base level, base level you could use it for fuel, like you could burn it, do you know what I mean? Like I feel like you're not survivally. This is they're getting a bit comfortable, as we will see multiple times this episode.
A lighter, two lighters or something, you know what.
I'm saying, Like there's probably will give you like one ration card or just even just like some information or just like making a friend, you know, like a Joel's not really a friend guy, so an alliance. It seems silly. Also, I will say I was very happy to see Ellie's bad jokes making it into the show because that's again it's like another key we get. This episode is just like straight from the game. But yeah, as soon as she threw that out of the window. I was like, hey,
don't do that. Don't know that, Like, what are you thinking.
Yeah. They drive on and at dusk Joel pulls off the road. They make camp at a clearing in some woods and for dinner, twenty year old chef boyardy. That guy is good. Eliss.
I'm gonna say, just want to say scientific here. Yeah, I've seen people open twenty year old cans of stuff. It doesn't go that well, but I like the intention, and you know what, I like that her and Joel agree on this. Chef body is good.
Did they have that in England? Did chef make it over there?
They don't have. He never made it there with his Michelin Star canned restaurant. He was like, he was like, it's too far. But they do have they have like very very similar Hines actually makes like very similar situation in England.
Okay, so Joel, they're making camp, They're eating and talking about the trip ahead. Joel figures, Okay, if we get out of here by first light, we should make Wyoming by the day after, which is a good time. Ellie asks if they can light a fire. She's cold, says no, and not because as you might expect because there are
zombies out here, that's the infected her. I guess this is too sparsely populated area for there to be a pressing danger of infected, which I would still be like fuck that, no, But because of people, people might see the light, people might see what's going on. I would as people are on a discord, we're saying, why wudn't you sleep in the bed of the truck, I would sleep under the truck.
Like I don't care.
I don't care if you tell me that there's no infected out here.
I'm still like I'm sleeping like under the chat in the front, under some tops, like I'm high. Joel's very comfortable guy, He's very He's We will get to Joel being way way too comfortable very soon.
They lay down to sleep, and then Ellie has a very very serious question for Joel. She says, Joel, she turns on her light. First of all, Joel, why did the scarecrow get an award? And Joel, after a beat, says, because he was outstanding in his field? You did did you read this? And we get the first real smile, crack of a smile.
It's at edge.
You love to see it. I was just laughing about, Okay, we're not going to build a fire, because what if people see would the like, how bad would it be to get killed by raiders because they saw you light your flashlight to read a book of puns?
I know, I know, seriously, I get it, like the thing I love about and we're obviously like ragging. The show is amazing. The episode is amazing. The point is like the point of the whole story as we saw the last episode, as we kind of get seen, is about finding joy and those moments being worth that risk. But in the moment when you're watching it, you're like, guys, don't get your head chopped off by a guy with a machete to read a joke, like please.
It is very good that they feel less fear they live in this world they were you know exactly. Yeah, she's just you know, as a kid would doesn't necessarily feel the danger around her. But it's like, if you air drop me into this into twenty twenty three of you know, plus twenty years of an outbreak of fungal zombies, I would be a mess all the time.
If I survived, I would be stressed. I would be I'd be more of a bill pre pre meeting Frank, like I would be like locked in my house. But
you know what, I do love. I think something about this episode is after the power of episode three, this could maybe feel a bit like a leading episode or kind of an intro episode, But actually I do think there is so much small, nuanced time that we get to spend with Joel and Ellie here that you'll really get and see that bonding and the kind of part of the comfortable, the too comfortable situation therein is because they're getting comfortable around each other and they're starting to
feel like there's someone who love.
To see it.
Yeah, you love to see it. It's gonna end badly currently, but I love I do love to see it.
The next morning, Ellie sees coffee for the first time. She is confounded by it. It stinks. Joel is like just slurping it up in the car, making fun of her for thinking it's gross, to which I was. I was saying this in the discord. You know they're just ripping ass in that car. Oh yeah, right, Like there's no modesty. It's not like you're not hiding it in. They just ate a can of twenty year old chef boy or d and chase it with coffee twenty year
old coffee. Absolutely, there are big time farts being ripped in that car.
It's happening, and it's and they're just like going with it because the truth is that you're probably gonna see someone turn into like an evil fungal monster at some point. So it's like if you just be fought and like, oh wow, yeah.
Ellie's like, so, uh, tell me where you're going again, and Joel is like, uh so we're gonna uh my brother Tommy. The last time I heard from him. Excuse me, So last time I heard from Tommy he was close to Cody Wyoming. And Ellie's like, yeah, let me just check them out. Yeah, that's way up there. Uh so that's very very far out. And then Joel opening up now because recall it was not that long ago that Joel was like hard ruled, don't ask me about my histories, and I won't ask you.
Now.
All of a sudden, Joel is telling Ellie about Tommy. He says, Tommy is what you call a dreamed of becoming a hero. So he joined the army right out of high school. A few months later, they shipped him off the desert storm. Twelve years later, outbreak happens and he convinces me to join a group making their way up to Boston, and Joel basically says he did to keep an eye on Tommy, keep him out of trouble,
and that's where he met Tess. Some point after Tommy fell in with Marlene and the Fireflies, and Joel says, of that same mistake he made when he was eighteen. He wants to save the world, and last Joel heard, Tommy had quit the Fireflies and now he's I guess, floating around on his own somewhere out in Wyoming doing who knows what. Ellie asks Joel a very important question, which is how does he keep going without any hope that the world can be better? Like, how do you
just do that? And Joel says, basically, you don't understand what. You haven't seen the things I've seen. You haven't been out here, been out here. I understand what the world is like. You see this hopeless existence that I'm living. I'm living a realistic existence. You don't understand that. And then he tells her you keep going for family. That's about it. Ellie is like, oh, like me, and he's like, no, not like you. I made a promise to test that.
Yeah. He's like you are cargo.
Your cargo flat out.
Yeah, which I think you actually make a really good point. I actually think this is more of like a defense mechanism because, like you said, Joel had said, oh, don't talk to me about my family, don't talk to me about this, and then suddenly he's like opening up. He's talking about this person that he also doesn't even really talk to tests about, like like Tommy is like off limits because of their argument and their beef about the fireflies.
But then he's just telling this girl. So it's that moment when she's like, so, am I family and he's got to be like, no, no, your cargo. I don't you don't mean anything, because yeah, it's such an iconic moment and it's like you're just cargo. It's like, sure, bro, not to mention.
Not to mention the You know, there's going to be more moments that call to mind Sarah and particularly there last night, but like here's Joel in the truck with a teenage girl in the Apocalypse.
And Tommy's still in the conversation, so still in the conversation, you know, like it's happening again. Actually, that's such a good point because also when Sarah and Joel first escape out of the car, all Sarah's doing is asking about Tommy. Where's Tommy? How do we get back to Uncle Tommy? We can't leave him behind. So even that conversation coming from a different place with Ellie, who just wants to
have more context, she's also still asking where's Tommy? Like it's that's such a great point.
So Ellie nods off, and then he says about Tommy. You know. Ellie asks, how can you be sure you're gonna find him? And Joel says, I think the one most important thing about him as a character, I'm persistent Joel. As we were going to see in this episode very shortly, when Joel gets an idea in his head, you can't get it out. You're not going to get it out of his head. He's for better, often for worse, and hopefully for better. Ellie nodge off when she wakes up.
The truck is on a highway entrance to Kansas City, and the way through is, as one would expect, blocked, and it looks very suspiciously blocked.
Yeah, it's purposefully blocked.
It's purposefully blocked.
And if you're a game guy here and you're like, oh, this has been very close to the game. Now we're diverging, you can basically just Kansas City is standing in here for Pittsburg. We don't know why, the exact choice, but this was this is basically the chapter in the game that was Pittsburg. And you will recognize that as soon as you see the blocked street.
That's exactly right. So they're stopped at this roadblock. Joel gets out to briefly kind of examine it, comes back, Ellie's got the map. They look and they're trying to figure out, okay, like how far back do we have to go before we can get around this? And then the answer must be too far. And Joel thinking about, you know, much like Bill thinking about resource management. How many times I get fucking siphon gas? How many times I get to siphon gas?
Here?
Do I want to do that? And he decides no, Instead, I'm gonna Leroy Jenkins this fucking roadblock and we're just gonna cut through the city and find a way through. That's it. We'll be back on the road in a minute.
Tops he says, from New York, Bro, this is a bad yeah, Like just.
Just go that horror movie one on one the lies.
They literally just came from an area where it was so uninfected and so like just no one there that they could sleep outside. Like, just go back and find a different way around. Do not go through the city. Especially. This is especially dumb because, as Joel is about to reveal, he has also been on the other side of this.
He's done ambushes before.
So what happens?
They get an ambush, almost like shocking. They're driving past what turns out to be the abandoned QZ. Something has happened to the QZ where it's the doors are flung open. They've they've been feder has been either overrun or overthrown. And as soon as they see that, they see a guy down the road who appears appears to be injured and he's calling for help. Joel immediately sniffs out that this is an ambush. He floors it. Next thing you know,
a cinderblock is crashing through the windshield. Next thing you know, the truck is running over a board studded with nails. Next thing you know, the truck is getting shot at this one like he does bad.
He should have reversed as soon.
As he saw the guy, and next thing you know, the truck is crashing into a garage.
Now, bill's the oldest time.
I'll point out a couple of things. One, the batting average of riding in a truck with Joel is bad against number two. I will point out that immediately Joel is like, are you hurt or you yes? Because why because here it is it's happening again. He's riding in a truck running from dangerous and his enemy.
Is the problem again because because he's his stubbornness. Because with Joel and Tommy it's this, it's this same thing. When then the opening night with Sarah is like he's convinced they have to just keep going through, they have to keep going through, and he makes that same mistake here again. He could have reversed, They could have gone a different way around, they could have gone a different route. America is a big country. He knows he fucked up.
And here again is a teenage girl who is in his care who suddenly has to deal with It's not just the car crash this time it's an ambush. These are not infected. It's like we're getting to that play. This is that important pivotal episode that we've kind of been hinting towards and talking about in all zombie law. And yes, the infected are not undead. The the corterceps cannot bring the dead back to life. But zombie is
a catchual. You know, it's the ghouls, it's the it's the quarter sceps infected, but you know they are not the real threat. The real threat is the humans. That's always the way all of these stories, whether it's The Road, whether it's you know, Night of the Living Dead, the real threat is humans and the brutality that they will enact to protect themselves. Or you know, think about the
Walking Dead. You've got cannibals, You've got all kinds of different spaces and people who will do whatever they need to do to survive. And Joel just realizes he's put Ellie into that very situation that he's allegedly been trying to kind of avoid and protect that from.
And so here is Joel. It's his mistake and he knows it. He may have just consigned a girl in his care to death. Again, just as happened, just as happened years ago. He's freaking out about it, Are you okay? He immediately this gunfight is going on. He immediately sends her to safety through like a hole in the wall to like hang out on the other side of the wall.
He takes out two of the attackers with his gun, loses sight of a third who sneaks up behind him, gets the drop on him, and now it's one of those famous smash square button yeah fights where Joel is trying to hold off this guy that's on top of him.
And the guy's like choking him with a gun, choking him.
Ellie is watching this happen and she realizes, oh, I
have a gun. She gets her gun out of the knapsack, walks up, shoots the guy in the back and it's now it is this really I thought affecting moment where it reminded me of the kind of the death at the end of Saving Private Ryan, where like, I forget the name of the character who's just like as the Nazi is about to plunge the knife into his chest, is like, oh no, no, no, no, a time out time after you know, like, now this this guy who is very young, a young man.
Yeah, you realize he's basically a kid.
Yeah, is like, oh no, no, we're not fighting anymore. That we didn't need to do this.
This is a good knife.
My mom is close by, you could take me to her. Begging for his life, pleading for his life in a way that honestly felt like this is what I would do. I would be It was sucking life.
And it's so sad because it shows that the way the disassociative nature of what people are having to do in this world. He was ready to kill Joel and Ellie like a little kid. He was just ready to do it. But the moment that he realized that he was on the other side of it, he suddenly has this human realization of oh my god, I don't want to die.
It was a wise I think it was so affecting and I think important to do because this is a story based on a game in which, in the course of carrying out the story, you, as Joel, will likely kill three hundred four hundred at least some large amount of people. And so here is a really important moment where that taking of a life is brought home. The importancye the impact of it, and you know what it's brought into this.
That's such a great point because I think something that's always dangerous, and I'm someone I love action movies. I love John Wick, you know, a gun Fu movie where you're constantly seeing people being shot. But something about gaming and like first person shooter games and games where you are current always killing, you can lose the impact of death.
And instead here, instead of showing testing Joel killing hundreds of people blah blah blah blah, here what you see instead is this incredibly intimate reality of what it's like to take a life and it is such a responsible, heartbreaking interesting and instead of him just like sniping someone out of a window, which you do in the game, you know, those kind of things like or shooting someone
from Afar with a gun. There's so much emotion here, and then there's this really like scary, sad, kind of horrible, dread inducing moment where Joel tells Ellie go back, go back, and the guy is begging Ellie like, don't go, because he's not gonna do it if you're here, and Ellie just turns around and walks away, and the guy starts and you realize that Joel's gonna kill him.
So Joel finishes the man off with his knife and and Joel and Ellie come back together. They now have to hide, they have to run from the reinforcements that they know are coming. And this is incredible acting by Bella because here Ellie is she just killed somebody. I know she didn't finish him off, but she for all intents and purposes, just killed the guy and watched him
beg for his life. And she is trying to play it off like she's fine, Hey, so, uh yeah, I packed my gun up and let's uh, we should I saw a tall building over there, we should probably get an advantage point. I'm good, by the way, I'm fine, don't worry about me.
And this is where Joel his paternal instincts start coming out, because to him, this is something this is something Sarah never had to do. And for some reason in Joel's like very blurry moral compass, the idea that a kid has to kill someone is really horrific. And he keeps saying, you shouldn't have to do that your age, are you okay? And Ellie's like I'm fine, I'm fine, Like let's just go like I'm fine, you know, and you start to get some of that gameplay where you're hiding through this
sh streets kind of China. You've got to stealth your way through avoiding these you know, they don't name them this, but we know from the game that this is some kind of representation of the Hunters and people who are part of that that Hunter community. I think Neil Drugman actually spoke about this in an interview, saying that like this is going to be, they're going to serve a
different purpose in the game. They're direct antagonists without much more expansion, But as we see from this episode and the arrival of one of our favorite actresses who's about to turn up soon, Melanielinski, this is going to be a more complex and probably play a far bigger part than they did in the game.
Agreed, X Ray Vision will be back, and we're back. Joel and Ellie head off. They're dodging arm patrols. They're looking for a hiding spot, and we go elsewhere in the city where we find Kathleen played by Melanie Lynsky in what used to be a federal facility surely is not now a FEDERI jail cell. She is interrogating a prisoner who we soon come to find out as a doctor, and she's reading a list of names, clearly dissidents who
are in hiding from her group. And I think the thing that we can kind of piece together from this in other conversations is Kathleen, whose family was unjustly wronged by fed her brother apparently beaten to death in these
very same interrogation cells. Kathleen sparked led whatever a rebellion against fed Yes, which she now is continuing to lead, And what is happening now is a mop up operation where she is kind of organizing the hunt for feder collaborators so that they can we can only assume, be put to death, right, Yeah.
And I think as well as this implication here in the game, the hunters anyone who crosses that path, they call them tourists, and they just kill them. And I think there's this implication where even if you maybe want connected to FEDRA, if you show up and you came from another QZ, you're a Federick collaborator. Like there's no question here. This is just an assumption they make and they will kill you.
So Kathleen is saying, it tells this doctor, Hey, you know my brother was killed in these cells, like you know what about that? And the doctor is saying, you're wrong. I'm sorry, but this has to stop, whatever this rebellion that Kathleen has fomented, And she says, I think something that's you know, really honestly is pretty authoritative. If I disagree with her methods, but I think this is pretty strong.
She says, this is this has to stop now, you mean when you're in the cell, And she points out that now that this person who was protected and felt secure, now that he's put in danger and his skin and is in the game, all of a sudden, oh no, we got to put a stop to this. But previously, when the regime that he was supporting was doing the very same things that they are now doing, it was had very.
Little and we know fed was literally like hanging people in the street like they were brutal.
So the man points out that while I was doing that under dress, I had a gun to my head. So she pulls out a gun and says, okay, what about Now, where are the people I'm looking for? And she seems she is particularly interested in finding a man named Henry Burrell, who apparently put the finger on Kathleen's brother or perhaps the rest of her family to Fedra and is now in hiding somewhere in the city. Kathleen knows, and she desperately.
Yeah, she's like obsessed with him, and she kind of has this paranoid feeling that he's kind of planning something. This is his work whatever. She sees him as this almost like overarching puppetmaster of anything that's gone wrong in her life.
The interrogation is interrupt by the arrival of a patrol that is bringing back the bodies of the ambushers that that Joelt died away with. In Kathleen's mind, as you mentioned, Rosie, this is Henry's work. Yeah, if he has a radio, he might have called in reinforcements and this is them. And then in a rage at this loss of life.
Yeah, yeah, she's back in. There's a great line where she goes, can you save him? And they're like no, and she's like, what if I had a doctor And they're like it's useless, too late, and.
She just she goes back in and executes him. This doctor, by the way, who at one point in the interrogation says, I delivered you. This is like the intimate bonds and are being torn apart here are really notable. And she says then to her gathered militia, she said, this is Henry's work and he won't stop until we stop him. Find every collaborator and kill them all. And then Kathleen's people head off into the city and they just kind of like knock down random doors and drag people off,
apparently to be killed like with proof. I don't know, it doesn't seem like it. Joel and Ellie are watching all of this from a hiding spot, and this is exactly what Joel meant when he said, people think you need to watch everybody.
This is it.
We'll watch this. And Ellie, continuing again to pretend like she's fine, has noticed a tall building a few blocks over, and Joel is like, yeah, I saw it too. This is where we're gonna go. We're gonna go there so we can get a vantage point and find a path out of the city. And this is the moment where Joel kind of sensing this shield that Ellie has put up around herself, wants to basically take the burden off of her shoulders and put it on his because he
understands that he fucked up. He says, you're just a kid. You shouldn't know what it means to you know, it's not like you killed them. And Joel continues, you know, saying, basically, I know how hard it is the first time you kill someone or you hurt them badly. It can be it can be bad. And Joel also is doing this because you know, he's apologizing. He's saying, this is my fault. Now, he says it's his fault because he didn't hear the
guy sneak up on him. Joel of course has his hearing has been damaged from years of shooting at people.
But it's also hilarious because in the game, Joe has like superherring that you can, like you can like hand through the wolves like you're in Spider Man or Batman or any of those other kind of games. So that's like a good a good reconsideration of like grounding him in the real world a little bit more.
A great now, I would point out, And I think the character also knows that it's not his fault because the guy snuck up on him. It's his fault because he decided to drive through and crush the city. Yeah, that was gonna obviously be occupied in some form of fat like why did you fucking do that? So you know,
he's apologizing, but in a very dadlike fashion. This is this actually like resonates if anybody has ever had a parent apologize to them, I don't know about like your personal experience, but it's never really They always obliquely do it and never truly come clean on the.
Thing that he felt me that way kind of apology.
So here's Joel not apologizing but also kind of like not apologing for the thing that he actually did. And then Ellie says something important, which is that it wasn't her first time hurting somebody, but she refuses. Now it's her turn to close the doors and not expound on what that means. Joel then decides, you know what, we didn't stay at Bill and Frank's, where I could have taught Ellie how to shoot in safety. But you know what, fuck,
I'm gonna do it now. He takes he has Ellie take her gun out, He shows her how to hold it. He uh, and honestly, that's about it. He just shows her how to He's just like puts the mag back in and he hands it to her. We go back to Kathleen where Kathleen's lieutenant who I'm calling thor old gray Man from Skyrim. He looks exactly like he really does. He looks exactly like the blacksmith of of White Run.
He has some intel on Henry. Apparently they found the recent hiding place of Henry, and he leads Kathleen there. It's a attic somewhere in a building somewhere. There's cans of food there and notably child's drawings of like Superman saving something.
Yeah, this is like a huge moment because I think they do a really interesting job. Kathleen has created for the show, and I think they do a really interesting job of like she's incredibly brutal and she kills someone in a fit of rage, but there's some kind of notion here of a revolution of a community that she's protecting. It's more so far it's been more more really gray
than obviously evil. But then when you find out that whoever Henry is, and if you know who he is, if you've played the game, but if you don't, he's helping protect a kid and that's the person that she wants to destroy and kill, and it's a very smart bit of visual storytelling.
I agree this resonates too, because you know, oftentimes we tell ourselves that we're doing something because of ideals. In this case, Kathleen supporting the revolution and you know, bringing to justice the collaborators who are trying to bring down our more just society after we've overthrown Federa YadA, yah YadA. But really it's question of this that they's something personal on top of this kind of political you know, scaffolding
that she's erected. There is something deeply personal about her chasing Henry. It is this kid, her child, we don't know, but it's clearly personal. They leave there and then Kathleen's lieutenant thor Old grey Maine is like, oh, yeah, there's something else I have to show you. So they go to like a basement or a garage, and there they see the concrete floor is cracked and it is it is slowly sagging down, and as it SAgs down, it's also like bubbling up, like something is pressing again the
floor beneath there. Is it for those who play the game, is this bloaters That's what the hen thing at some kind of fungal balloon, like a bubble that will pop up fungus. But it feels like we're gonna see bloaters or some kind of infected break into the city. Thor Old gray Mane is like, should we tell the others? When do we tell him? And Kathleen's like not yet, badly classic bad leadership. She's like, let's take care of this absolutely insane and meaningless paranoia. I have of two
fucking people. One is like a guy in other words, a child, Rather than deal with the obviously pressing issue of what appears to be infected.
And like one of the kind of infected.
Anyway, Joel and Ellie make their way to the tall building. We get some wonderful co op kind of adaptation from the gameplay where Joel is scooting Ellie up into a hole in the wall the thing you do a boost, a thing you do time and time and time again in the games. And they head up now this forty plus flights of Stais to the top of this building. They'll go essentially as far as Joel's fifty six year
old bones will allow them to go. On the way up, Ellie asks Joel, how do you know we're getting ambushed? And Joel makes a very important admission here. He says that he's been on quote both sides of this, meaning he's ambushed people's He says further that he Tommy and tests the group that they were running with when they were going up to Boston, quote did what they had to do to survive, to which Ellie asks, did you
ever hurt innocent? You ever kill anybody innocent? And Joel doesn't answer, which I think clearly means.
Yes, yeah, And I asked no question. By the way, Joel, literally I thought of you here because I think this is setting something up really interesting. So you talked about how the Bill and Frank relationship is this kind of like it's like a mirror for Joel of like, what if you let people in and loved them in the way they wanted to be loved and respected their agency.
I think this establishes another reflection of Joel, which is probably going to be Kathleen as we get more into the story, And that's the what if you never learned that you shouldn't do that, or what if you never put anything above vengeance or survival? What if you did the most brutal version of it? And I think that is going to be a very important tipping point for Joel to reconsider his any means necessary mindset, which is obviously going to lead to like the finale of the show.
And it's I love post apocalyptic zombie m H stories genre stories like this, but there's always been also like an aversion I have to them. And the thing is that that inherent in this kind of like setup is the idea that, hey, you're gonna have to do what you have to do. Yeah, And there's something about listen, if you're looking for excuses to hurt and kill innocent people, you're gonna have an endless supply of them in this story, in this kind of world, in this kind of story.
And here's Joel. Joel, Hey, we had to do what we had to do survive. That may have been true in the moment, it may not have been true in the moment.
And also you probably didn't have to do it as regularly as you did it. That was probably the times when you really needed to survive. Then there was the times that you wanted a truck, or you wanted something other people had, or you killed a family who didn't have anything, or you know, we know, Joel's the kind of person who would leave a family with a kid at the side of the road if it meant protecting
what was his. So we know we can't assume from this interaction that he's done some pretty terrible stuff and.
At least he feels bad. It's very clear that whatever those things were, they weigh on him. He's not particularly proud of them, or else he would have said, yeah, I did. What do you mean? We had to Joel and Ellie make camp on one of the higher floors here. Joel then does the uh the Ethan Hunt tricks Mission Impossible one where he breaks the he breaks some glass and yeah, so that if somebody sneaks up on them, they you know, the glass will crunch and they will
hear something. Why not also barricade the door. Don't worry about it. He's like a right Joe slipping. He well, here's the thing, he is fifty six. The stands really did.
Like I also think we're getting to see something really interesting here, which is like, this is Joel without tests, and I don't think he's really realized that she's not there.
You know, he knows she's not at that level.
He he used to have this person who would always have his back, who would always be on his six like blah blah blah, he's she's there. Test is probably setting up some crazy trap. Test is shooting someone if you're taking a sleep like. There was a level of comfort to the life they had in the quarantine zone, and Joel kind of seems to be a little bit stuck in that even outside in this totally new city and this totally new place. Why didn't you barricade the door?
Why didn't you You know, there's many things that you could ask about what Joel didn't do in this situation, But you know what, he's trying his best. I believe that, I believe, I.
Know, I think that all of this I pointed out not to criticize Joel, but to say, this is like really good character. This isn't older. This is a guy who's slipping exact's fifty six years old, and it's not like a fifty six in a modern first world kind of content. This is a guy who's been living by his wits, leaving hand to mouth for twenty fucking, very very hard years, horrible years.
Where he's done terrible things and lost everybody that he loves.
And he just doesn't necessarily have his fastball right now, and I think he knows it. As they're falling asleep, Joel asks what Ellie meant by not her first time, and Ellie again she willing, not willing to expound on that, but Ellie asks, I think an important question, which is does it somehow, like you get older, you kill more people, does it get easier? And Joel says not really, which is not good you want.
To hear, especially when you're like fourteen, But it's true.
Right, But it's also a thing I think you want to hear from Joel because the last thing you want to hear is oh, yeah, I fucking I'm just like like in the game.
Yeah yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
We're just like running through people.
But good for Alli.
Yeah, but and good for Joel because at least you know that he's hardest, still beating somewhere in there. And then Ellie tells Joel that, hey, I noticed you didn't You don't hear so well. Joel says it's because of the shooting, all the shooting, Like you wanted a gun, now you got one. I'll tell you, maybe you want to rely on the knife, which if the if the show is anything like the game, Ellie definitely will. And then Ellie has a really really important thing to ask
Joel and she says, Joel, she know diarrhea's hereditary. It runs, it runs in your jeans, and we get a really great laugh from Joel. Now, the two of them laughing. It's a wonderful woman. It made me smile, and they and they.
It starts where he's like, he laughs, and then he kind of tries to stop laughing and he's like, that is so fucking dumb, and then the two of them just lose it and they're like, you're losing it, You're losing it, and they're just giggling there. It's the first time we've seen Joel happy ever in the show. Actually even pre ever ever, yeah, even pre outbreak, but post outbreak. It's like his first smile, it's proper smile. It's his
first laugh. And this is obviously a huge moment for the pair of them.
They go to sleep and Joel is awoken by Ellie's panic voicing Joel, and when he wakes up, he finds two people standing a man and a child young boy standing over them, guns pointed in their faces, and we can only assume that this is Henry and Sam. Yes, the people who Kathleen has been looking for Don done.
Dun Dunn, and the credits confine it. This is Henry and Sam. And if you are a game player, this is when your heart breaks into just after you slightly sewed it back together off the episode three.
A shorter episode forty five minutes. I think necessarily so, considering like kind of heft that they gave us in episode three, but also an episode that really I think deals with I think it's a again just reiterate, I think a really smart and necessary thing, which is deal with the violence inherent in the game in a way that makes it feel.
Weighty, y, real, Like I think that's really true.
Taking out that ambusher who is just pathetically begging for their life in a way that feels like, wouldn't you do this? You would do this right if you thought it was all going to be over right now.
It takes away it just hits hard, and it takes away that kind of like the aspect that anything like this can have, that like lone Wolf, like you're the good guy with the gun, like it takes away that element and adds so much more nuance and impact. And also I think it's really interesting to have that compared with the quickness and severity that Kathleen kills the doctor with. She walks and she kills him, it's done. Compared to that kind of horrific time that we spend, that shows
us kind of the sacrifice of taking somebody's life. It's and also you get that then compare and you balance that with Joel and Ellie bonding over these puns, these
kind of quiet moments, him telling her about Tommy. I think it's like a really impactful episode that I reckon as well, is probably gonna this will probably be a big rewatch episode I reckon, especially when you're talking about the revolution and looking at the seeds of that, because at first it seems like Kathleen is just rageful for no reason, and then you start to put together the seeds and you think, like, oh, okay, there's this some kind of revolution that she's a part of. Who was
helping her, who wasn't helping her? These Federra co conspirac Also then you want to know why do people want to help Fedra? Like what version of life is that? Like you said, are they all under duress and then to introduce these like huge fan favorite characters in the
last moments of the episode. And then after episode three, I feel like we're all kind of asking, like, are we going to get a Henry and Sam episode that is on a level with Bill and Frank, this kind of bottle episode that gives us more time with them, or is this going to be a journey we see them on with Joel and Ellie. I'm I'm very interested to see. But I just just another great episode and the writing on this show is just like so fucking good.
It's really well done. Thoughts on what's under the floor.
I think it's got to be a bloater. I think it's got to be a bloat I think, you know, we've seen clickers, We've had that really terrifying reveal. I think this is very interesting that the show is not leaning heavily into the horror right now. Yeah, and it's kind of more these moments of teasing and these momentary, big reveals like in episode two. But I think I think once you get to that episode five, you're over halfway through the season. I think that we're going to
start ramping that up. I think we're going to see more infected. I think we're probably going to get a couple more brutal deaths, you know, the old like head on the broken glass move from the game, the kind of the Molotov cocktail situation. I feel like they're building in a lot of gameplay in this episode, and I feel like they might take that to the next level and bring a little bit more violence and horror as we get to that final kind of trail to the end.
Here's my question, do the people in this world? Does Joel know about bloaters? Because in the game, bloaters are super rare, right, Like, there's very few. There's not like it's the rarest of the boss level infected. You don't fight them that much. I wonder if this is a semi new divice. I think so, if anybody's seen them yet, I think, you know what I mean.
Like, I think there's a wild West somebody who's in Kansas City may have. But I think they're going to be new to Joel. I think that's going to be he's been in the QZ the clickers him and test that was the thing they were most scared of, in my opinion, from the performances from the way they'd seen it, and I, yeah, I think that, I think that you're on the path here. Where are we going to get like a what the fuck is that? Like? I don't know kind of reaction from Joel.
The show continues to be fucking great. We're going to continue our coverage with it every week and look for our coverage of the game also to come back shortly up next a very entertaining nerd out.
In today's nerd out, where you tell us what you love and why or share a theory, which we're lucky to have another great one this week, Joe is going to pitch us on how the Mark with the Mouth Deadpool a real beloved character at this point in both the games and the films thanks to the Fox movies. Joe's got an idea of how he might turn up in the MCU, So Jason, I'll hand it over to you.
Sure, Joe writes, after rewatching dead Pool one and two recently. The theory that I have is that at the end of Deadpool two, when Negasonic fixes the Time Slider, the great good old Negasi.
Teenage, all time favorite inclusions and all time favorite castings bring her to the MCU.
Next Love Negasonic teenage Warhead after Negasnic fixes the timeslider. Something in How She Fit is part of what will ultimately allow Deadpool a travel into the MCU continuity between Deadpool two and The X Men Day's Future Past movie, It's made clear in the Fox x Men Universe continuity that time travel is strictly linear and changing event will directly affect everything else. However, when Wade uses the time slider and save so Nessa, the linear effects would have
avoided much of the story of Deadpool two. Yet in the MCU it's been made very clear that changing the timeline creates a splinter effect. Since Deadpool seems to be able to jump across these splinters, now, I wonder if that's how he'll sneak into the MCU. I like this.
I think that is really smart and also think about it, when did we last see a Wolverine aka Logan? He was dead, So, you know what, having some kind of time travel situation would be very useful to getting Logan back into the MCU with a Deadpool as we know the movie will be. Obviously there's a variant potential, but after hearing Joe's theory, I'm thinking that the time slide.
Time travel and the differences between time travel and the Fox universe and the MCU universe could really be a way to get Deadpool in here.
I agree, it feels like there's something there not to mention that, Like, I mean, the pre Marvel X Men universe was just filled with time loopholes, oh my god, and opportunities.
Speaking of and.
Opportunities to pull these characters from almost any time frame that their movies like took place in. Uh. I think that it feels like Joe's on. I think it would not be surprised.
Because our newest villain, Kang the Conqueror, who we're obviously gonna, you know, see an a man, and it seems like it will be the Conqueror iteration of Kang, that is a man who is obsessed with time. He can control time, He's a time traveler. Now we know in the MCU it is also going to be this idea of multiverses. But in the newest at Man Quantumania trailer, they have this line where Kang says, you know, every single thing that you see is life. I will burn out of time.
So I think this idea of time travel and time being a malleable thing that's going to become ever more important to the MCU. I think Joe's onto something. This could be a we were right for the nerd out.
Thank you Joe. If you have theories or passions you want to share, hit us at x ray at cricket dot com instructions or in the show notes. That's it for us. Rosie an he plugs you.
Know Itify me Rosie Marx on Instagram and letterboxed and this week I'm plugging the newly created Crooked Union. I'm very happy about this. Shout out to our comrades, our solidarity at the U with our CROKEETG.
We love the w G, the WJA.
This is great, really happy that this is happening, and just sending all our support to all of our amazing folks at Crookeet who announced that union movement.
Catch the next episode on Friday for routenes and remember bring you two episodes a week every Wednesday and Friday on the podcast platform of your.
Choice you can pick and I remember. You can also find us on YouTube subscribe you can watch full episodes of the show now ones where we're on zoom like this being very cool and virtual ones where we're irl in the same place at the Crooked Studio. Follow us at XRV pod on Twitter where we're always doing cool stuff, sharing, answering questions, retweeting rad things, talking about tattoos, and check
out our discord. Me and Jason are there are super producer Soul's been active in there talking about D and D. You never know who you're gonna find in there. We've got loads of cool friends of the pod, the guy at h from joom pods in there, and we got a bunch of cool listeners and fans just talking about all the stuff that we love. And we even recently did a really rad Lost of Us giveaway, so we're gonna be trying to do more stuff like that. So basically,
join the discord. It's great that giveaway.
The winner of that will be announced on Friday's show this week. We'll be announcing that Friday, and we'll be doing, as Rosie mentioned, more taper ways like that in the future. So join the discord. It's fun. Five star reviews, we love them. Here's one from aj from PA love this pod. Thank you, Agent, I appreciate it. Jason and Rosie are a great team to discuss all things pop culture. Thank you. They have great insight. You can tell they truly love
discussing and breaking down the content they are discussing. I especially enjoy how they relate the series they are covering to the source material. I only wish they would cover more shows because there is so much to enjoy in the various fandoms Right now, Hey, you never know.
Two episodes We've trying.
We're gonna keep we may we maybe we'll keep going. You never know. Thank you so much, AJ for the kind words. X Ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Sol Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Rhard are editing in sound designs by Vascillis Fatopoulos, Dilon Villanueva and Matt Degroup provide video production support. Alex Rella for handle social media. Thank you, Brian Vasquez for theme music All Friday.
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